f13.net

As you may have seen when logging in, CCP have announced the next expansion: Quantum Rise (http://www.eve-online.com/pressreleases/default.asp?pressReleaseID=48).

To be honest, their node-breaking "upgrades" that they mention are already in, so they seem to be padding out what is a kinda sparse expansion.  Storefronts for corporations (which will let you set up template contracts for rapid ordering, say of reimburseable ships and fits), some graphics updates, the autopilot system-avoidance thing, and more.

The genuinely interesting thing is that the speed changes were supposed to go in in the next expansion.  If this is it then the countdown to Pandemic Legion (yay, skillful and imaginative masters of PvP!) and Triumvirate (booo, exploiting and game-breaking nanofags!)* ragequitting en masse has begun  :drill:

Apply green depending on which side you are on.

Goon gate camp near EC-

Nano-fag Vagabonds, sabres, rapiers, oh my.

And they all had cloaks. That, my friends, is faggotry.

They even probed me out as I was reporting some shit to our intel channels. Luckily, they can't touch my overloaded Vagabond. Acceleration Control V and 30 mil in speed implants ftw!

Back to your regularly scheduled patch discussion.

Other things announced (somewhat unwittingly):

- a change in how a corp's faction standings (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=898899&page=1#13) are calculated from its members (it's an instant average of all the non-0-standing members older than 7 days now, rather than the gradual increase it was before).

- the impact of the Goons' attack on Hulks (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=898939&page=1#11) earlier this year (6 trillion ISK).

But still the overall amount of Hulks increased as manufactures out-produced the ganking.  :ye_gods:

I was checking out the certificates on SISI yesterday nothing too exciting but a nice feature I suppose vOv CEOs can now give out cookies.. I mean medals and show which members are their favourites. I want a solo myrmi cookie chocolate chip flavoured dib dib  :why_so_serious:

So, whats the difference between the Rorqual and this new Orca ship?

Also, I'm interested to see how the storefront works.  Thats one actual feature I've always wanted to see in this game (though I can easily see CCP fucking up the implimintation.

I want the "I have every single ECM skill to V" badge.  Actually, with your myrmi and my falcon we should gank some fuckers...

Orca can operate in highsec

Dam yeh it would be a good combo.

Ah, I see, interesting.  Thanks.

I'm going to replicate all of Bruce's medals, I think.

How about, your myrmi, falcon and my onyx?

and my axe.



Overused I know, but couldn't resist.  :awesome_for_real:

Dude don't forget the axe seriously!

And my bow!

Dude the axe is totally gimped just reroll keke?

But yep, as soon as I finish having fun in A-C (ie when Stain and Atlas give up) I'll come up and we can do some small gang stuff.

Btw anyone not in A-C is missing out.  You are way too new to be bitter vets, and there are a ton of kills to be had: I've only got on a fraction of the kills today, thanks to being in a slow-locking scorpion.

I haven't been out of A-C for almost a week on Daala.  :grin:  Unfortunately I've missed the last couple of good fights though due to time zones and in the case of last night, wiping/reinstalling my computer.

Endie's gonna need new pants (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=597) after reading the new devblog.

TL;DR: New capital industrial ship that acts as a gigantic cargo container/hauler with a huge tractor beam range. And bonuses to mining command links.

Neat idea, bad implementation. 4-600 mil is a lot to have sitting in a belt, unprotected, and is a lot to move around from jumpgate to jumpgate, so unless there are huge advantages, no one is going to use it in 0.0.

So, what do you get for the extra cash? 70km isn't long enough to sit in the middle of a belt like a rorqual and tractor stuff to you. This means you still have to warp around to follow the miners. Using it like this, it's basically a hauler that can store 10x as much but that costs 400x as much and very likely aligns and moves slower. You also can't dock without losing your mining bonuses. Because it needs to warp around to grab cans, it's not going to be tanking your belt for you.

Basically you're replacing either your tank or your haulers, but not both, and there are no serious advantages that I can see for using it for either.

Any way you slice it, it's no upgrade for 400 million isk. Far too risky, far too little usefulness. Tractor range really needs to be the same as a rorqual for it to be even CONSIDERED for use. If it was able to remain stationary, then it could both tank and haul at the same time.

Putting up a small PoS is cheaper, provides more storage (CHA), and provides complete protection against raiders.

In hisec, it might get a little more use, which is I guess what was intended - they wanted a hisec rorqual. It's still a big fat juicy target; 4 BS should be able to suicide gank it.

Like you said, its not meant for 0.0. Its a hi-sec ship, maybe low-sec with lots of protection.


How many BSs does it take to suicide gank a freighter in hi-sec? Or a hypothetical rorqual in hi-sec. I can't imagine that it would have paper thin defenses.

Dev blog sayeth "Hitpoints - 46,000 structure / 6,900 armor / 9,750 shield"

That's not very much at all. Consider each BS you throw at it can do about 1k DPS/sec, and you get what, 15 seconds before concord shows up now?

We have people who know the exact number I'm sure but I think it took about 10+ gank BS to safely gank a Freighter in .5 space before the nerf.  Concord response times have since been greatly reduced.  :heartbreak:

You couldn't realistically suicide-gank a rorqual if it was even decently fitted.  Mine (MY RORQUAL!) has about a million EHP - more than five times that of a freighter - and if someone sacrificed a cargo expander for a DCII then the doubling of the 250,000HP in structure alone would amount to four times the entire HP of a charon.

Raw numbers don't mean anything to people I guess, but look:

Orca:
46,000 structure / 6,900 armor / 9,750 shield

Charon:
106,250 structure / 20,000 armor / 6,000 shield

It's less than half as strong as a freighter.

But the Orca can be tanked (somewhat), while the Charon cant. Slap a single Damage Control II on one of the 2 lows and you have 115000 effective structure points already. Comparing the base stats isnt quite fair here.

EDIT: Just checked out a basic tanking setup: With only basic T2 gear and T1 shield rigs I can get 190181 effective HP out of the Orca on its weakest damage type (thermal). The Charon on the other hand croaks after something like 140472 damage (explosive).

If you have more money than sense you can also fit crazy expensive loot (Estamel and T2 rigs) to your ship, bringing you to a respectable 228913 effective HP. But then you are just asking to get ganked.  :awesome_for_real:

True. I would say by the end it's really no stronger than a freighter. Only 3 mids means no real shield tanking. It'll take a concerted effort to pop it, but it's possible.

How would it work as a mission runner salvaging boat? Can it even use mission jump gates ...

Only 3 highs I think.

As the resident gank expert, ganking one of these today in a .5 would be about the same as ganking a freighter in the old days. The old days you wanted 10-12 Battleships (depending on ship types and skills/overload). To kill a freighter today you'd better have 20-22. It is no longer a profitable way to spend an evening, unless you are tipped off at a big score.

It is not reasonable to sit aligned to a gate with 10 BSes on the hope of an Orca happening to come through with mad lootz.

Note to anyone reading this, I will pay 200 milliion for information that leads to the death of a huge score. I will keep your info confidential, and this isn't limited to high sec ganking or freighter or orcas....anything. You know a guy that runs 100,000 plush every two weeks in high sec? We can work something out :)

Yeh four hi-slots would make it more viable with salvage rigs you could have two tractor and two salvagers. If you fit 3x T2 salvage rigs and implants (cost 750m  :ye_gods:) you could use one salvager to do the work of 4 and tractor stuff but using jump gates might be issue.

Orca Construction Requirements (http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/2008.10.23.19.19.47.jpg)

Would I be right to assume that, since it has a ship maintenance array AND hangar array in it, you can pull up next to it in a freighter, and drag its contents to the freighter hold?  Thus high sec mining ops would have a way to unload ore into a freighter to transport, via the Orca (which, incidentally, can tractor the cans)?

I mean it only holds 4.5 jetcans, but with a freighter there to pick up that load as soon as it gets full, it's nice.

I think its going to be a good ship for all intended purposes, but also the small time market traders, being more affordable and possibly more agile than freighters.

I'll get one for my freighter alt.  It'll be kinda useful for moving fitted stuff like ships she cannot fly to the edge of our space, either for deploying to areas not reachable by my main due to wardecs or hostile holders, or for getting insured ships or rigged ones bought on contract or the like.  It's not really worth the money, of course, but it'll be kinda useful.

CCP has decided to answer any questions (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=905942) posted by players, via the forums.  Figured I'd link the thread, in case anyone wants to ask anything.

My question, "When will you fix the UI" has already been asked.  Twice.

Zulu  park must have done something bad and is getting punished haha  :drill:

mine were:

Currently PvE combat and PvP combat are extremely different (and therefore require different fittings etc). Does CCP see this as a problem? ANd if so how do they plan to address it?

EVE has many game mechanics that are a poor moment-to-moment experiences (i.e. watching a single bar fill up). Does CCP consider this an issue?

Even in PvP you need to carefully weigh your fittings each time you undock.  You won't bring the same fittings to fight a nanogang as you would a remote repping BS ball or when you know you need to tank multiple doomsdays.  It's part of what I love about the game.

There are some ships that are well rounded enough to do both. An ishtar can rat in a PVP setup, I did it all the time. This is kinda skill and isk dependant though. I think drone boats in general are good at this because they can choose damage type. A ratting Domi can carry an array of drones to scare off a solo ganker. Sometimes.

Yeh one big difference between Pve and PvP is that you know what to expect in PvE and a lot of the time in PvP you don't. The other is dead space you can't use MWDs but seeing as CCP are trying to make afterburners useful in PvP that's sort of changing. Oh and lastly if you have ever run a sniper fleet or large battle it's very like PvE, broadcast-lock-F1-F8. Oh and yeh certain things in game should be made more fun or varied.

Delayed mode local?  WTF.

Been waiting for someone to bring this up.

 :popcorn:

New topic for ya:
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=15080.0

Dumb idea.  MMO's are social games.  Yeah I know 0.0 only or whatever lame ass reason the gankers whine about people safing up etc.  Fuck that.  More micromanagement of that shitty scanner?  How is this going to encourage more gang combat?  It won't.  ganks and sov warfare is all we get?  

I can even beat this one with EVE PF.  We know that gates take records of every ship jumping through.  That was established during some sort of CONCORD investigation.  So now you mean to tell me that an Alliance that controls systems and constellations. (go ahead and use CVA as an example) cannot access the data?  Why?  CONCORD does not have supreme right over gates out here.  Sov owners dictate who gets the info if you ask me ;).  As that would be totally unfair (though logical) to hostiles the answer is to leave it alone.  Damn, are they really trying to make every aspect of eve boring and/or shitty?

Local is for pussies.

so is empire suicide ganking :P

It simply culls the stupid from the herd is all.

"Durrrrrr, I'm gonna take these 1.5 billion isk worth of implants and put them in a t1 hauler with no tank, no mods and no warp stabs."

*BOOM*

no, it is for pussies who do not have the stones for hot pvp action :P


Yeah, I really do not care, always mind the value of your cargo.  I am just pointing out this talk about 'for pussies' thing is dumb :P

Any place, any time RP boy :)

Friends don't let friends call each other pussies on the internet.

Anyway, you're all pussies unless you've shot at CCP's empire titan.

We don't like the term Empire suicide ganker I feel it marginalizes us, I would prefer people used the term hull miners or pinata traders  :sad_panda:

Do you need to be held?   :awesome_for_real:

Where is that titan?  I'd like to go have a look-see.

Yes I think I do... yes forgive me for me I have sinned  :grin:

Empire titan is in Luminaire.  There's a beacon available in local, can't miss it.  Watch out, it has tons of BS rats hanging out around it.

They don't take very kindly to people shooting their titan either.

Nice thanks.  I went in a shuttle expecting to get blown up but a couple guys in really fast ships were there having fun outrunning all of the battleship's missiles so I was able to orbit the titan with no harm.

I also saw a bunch of cans laid out in the shape of a reindeer which made me laugh, I have no idea how whoever did that managed it.