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Title: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 13, 2008, 09:21:25 AM Quote A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. Whine here (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896003).I honestly think this is the beginning of the end. No one will have incentive to re-up, and fewer people will be willing to do the capital ship grind, leaving those who are already there with quite an advantage. I see this as a pretty blatant money grab but it's going to backfire bigtime. You're going to see a planetside-like slide in subs. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 13, 2008, 09:30:06 AM I was suprised it was ever even allowed in the first place when I first found out you can have in-active accounts training.
But I agree 100% that the main effect of this will be no incentive for people who have quit or taken breaks to ever come back. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Moosehands on October 13, 2008, 09:45:38 AM ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
I just lapsed for Adv Spaceship Command V last Thursday. Damn, this may well be the parting moment for EVE and I. I was basically playing station simulator for the past 3 months and decided to lapse my way into capital ships to see if it would rekindle my interest. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 13, 2008, 10:14:51 AM ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff I just lapsed for Adv Spaceship Command V last Thursday. Damn, this may well be the parting moment for EVE and I. I was basically playing station simulator for the past 3 months and decided to lapse my way into capital ships to see if it would rekindle my interest. I can always use a Cap pilot ;) On the bright side, I imagine GTC costs will now plummet! Or will they rise? My initial thoughts were less people will bother buying them if they cant re-up for a bit, then let carrier 5 finish out on their guy. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 13, 2008, 10:29:44 AM They should really put the skill queue in and also the removal of 30D GTCs mixed with this doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 13, 2008, 11:18:54 AM Wish I had a bunch of liquid isk, probably going to be a ton of alt accounts being sold soon and for pretty cheap.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Endie on October 13, 2008, 11:25:20 AM This is a very dumb move.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: IainC on October 13, 2008, 11:45:31 AM Yeah, of all the fixable problems with the skill and experience system, allowing lapsed accounts to finish training one skill really shouldn't be at the top of anyones 'to nerf' list.
Is it really such a big problem? I know you can start Cruiser V in the trial window which means that you could potentially get about 40 days of zero cost training time. Beyond that though if people are training the really long skills (cap ships) then they'll already have sunk the thick end of a years worth of subs into the game. Giving them a month or so of training - during which they can't be earning money or having fun ingame - seems to be a very minor concession. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: schild on October 13, 2008, 11:49:45 AM In other news, this guy was last seen at CCP:
(http://cartophilia.com/blog/images/pennybags.jpg) Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Teleku on October 13, 2008, 12:09:25 PM Hahaha, Jesus Christ. I was JUST about to post a thread saying I was going to start BS V and cancel the subscription for a month. My god do I have a black cloud following me around.
But hey, I guess instead of starting another thread, I'll post it here: Is there any big differences between the capital ships? Like, Dreadnaughts, Carriers, etc? I was going to go ahead and just do Caldari BS V, but I can't really find any info on the big differences between the dreadnoughts and other capital ships. The only other thing that I think concerns this is marauders and stealth battleships. I don't know about the stealth BS's, but Marauders are pretty much only for PvE, and Golem's seem to be the best at that, so that's a point in Caldari favor. Not that I'm sure I'll ever bother with cap ships, but before I take the long plunge, figured I should put some thought into it. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nerf on October 13, 2008, 12:17:34 PM The lapsed account training is the only reason I've come back to EVE 3 or 4 times, I know that every time I quit I'll come back that much better and it gets me excited about playing again.
I still say that they need to add in use-training bonuses as well. Don't punish the people who don't have time to play, but reward those who do. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 13, 2008, 12:19:55 PM Hahaha, Jesus Christ. I was JUST about to post a thread saying I was going to start BS V and cancel the subscription for a month. My god do I have a black cloud following me around. But hey, I guess instead of starting another thread, I'll post it here: Is there any big differences between the capital ships? Like, Dreadnaughts, Carriers, etc? I was going to go ahead and just do Caldari BS V, but I can't really find any info on the big differences between the dreadnoughts and other capital ships. The only other thing that I think concerns this is marauders and stealth battleships. I don't know about the stealth BS's, but Marauders are pretty much only for PvE, and Golem's seem to be the best at that, so that's a point in Caldari favor. Not that I'm sure I'll ever bother with cap ships, but before I take the long plunge, figured I should put some thought into it. The big difference is the same as with all the ships, Caldari Shield tank and use missiles. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Teleku on October 13, 2008, 12:44:04 PM But does that translate into any noticeable difference in effectiveness for dreadnaughts? As far as I know, Dreds just sit around and blast stations, or each other. So I would assume using missiles vs. Guns really wouldn't make a difference in these situations, but don't know. Also, don't motherships/carriers use fighters as their main weapons? Any differences between the 4 sides there?
In short though, I guess I'm asking, is there any particular cap ship that is desired over others by alliances, or are they all pretty much the same and nobody gives a crap? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Kitsune on October 13, 2008, 12:54:52 PM The threads on caps that I've seen over on EvE's forums tend to suggest that Amarr capitals are the best. I imagine that depends heavily on just how one's skills relate to the requirements of Amarran hulls and weapons, though. If all of your skills are for Caldari hulls and missiles, it's probably not worth your time to go back to square one and learn Amarr piloting and energy weapons.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nevermore on October 13, 2008, 01:01:54 PM Especially now that you have to keep your account active the entire time! :awesome_for_real:
Brilliant move, CCP! (http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10900/brilliant.jpg) Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 13, 2008, 01:04:21 PM This is a mighty boneheaded move. Wrath coming out soon, fleet fights turning into an unpredictable joke (where they were previously just slow and a joke) and this excellent idea is making my motivation to keep logging in sort of ebb away.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 13, 2008, 01:10:48 PM But does that translate into any noticeable difference in effectiveness for dreadnaughts? As far as I know, Dreds just sit around and blast stations, or each other. So I would assume using missiles vs. Guns really wouldn't make a difference in these situations, but don't know. Also, don't motherships/carriers use fighters as their main weapons? Any differences between the 4 sides there? In short though, I guess I'm asking, is there any particular cap ship that is desired over others by alliances, or are they all pretty much the same and nobody gives a crap? The Phoenix, Caldari Dread, uses Citadel Torps. I'm not especially experienced with cap shit but I'm pretty sure you can choose your damage type, making it a sexy POS popper. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 13, 2008, 02:13:47 PM Wish I had a bunch of liquid isk, probably going to be a ton of alt accounts being sold soon and for pretty cheap. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896065 :ye_gods: Would of jumped on that if I had the isk for sure. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 13, 2008, 02:33:44 PM Amarr cap ships especially Dreads are favoured for POS shoots cause they don't use ammo among other things. The Minmatar capitals are well known to be the worst the Nidhoggur is mostly used an expensive repairer as it get's a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 13, 2008, 02:47:40 PM I think the price of GTC's is going to go up, short term at least: everyone who wants to keep training BS 5 or whatever will have to rush and buy a GTC by Wednesday (or re-activate their account with a CC - that works too). Then, after that, it depends on which players they lose.
I think they're going to lose a large percentage of their empire PVE carebears. They tend to get bored fast. Unfortunately, they're the ones who are more likely to spend RL cash to acquire ISK; the 0.0 player has access to lots of ISK and is likely to want to play the game "for free". So, more demand for GTC's from 0.0 people, and less supply because the empire dweller is leaving the game for good => higher GTC prices. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 13, 2008, 02:56:55 PM RE: the phoenix versus other dreads - Basically, you have the same issue with other missiles only magnified.
The only thing you can hit with citadel torps and do full damage is the tower itself, other capital ships, and cynojammers. Large guns take a decent amount of damage, medium guns take very little damage, smalls take almost nothing. Plus, there's travel time. It's loooooong. Sometimes minutes, which means sometimes the primary is dead before your torps hit it. The advantage is you can carry a shit ton of ammo, more than any other dread (except the rev), and you aren't reliant on cap. Also, the training time is a bit less, as citadel torps are easy to train into compared with extra large types of other ammo. In any case, you're looking at 4-5 months of dedicated training time to get in a dread, and I really don't think people are willing to make that jump anymore without letting your character go inactive for the mutliple month long trains. I know that I'm not. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 13, 2008, 03:05:18 PM (http://www.filedump.net/dumped/lol1223935876.JPG)
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Reg on October 13, 2008, 03:10:25 PM If GTC prices go up significantly over this it's going to stop people from playing - especially if they're running multiple accounts. I think CCP may come to regret this decision.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: tazelbain on October 13, 2008, 03:16:50 PM Their plan to deal with their server problems: more money from less players.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 13, 2008, 03:26:19 PM (http://www.filedump.net/dumped/lol1223935876.JPG) Worst idea ever. I would rather WATCH my skills train then go back to WoW. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 13, 2008, 03:27:06 PM I see this as a good way of reducing server wide lag nice job CCP.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Miasma on October 13, 2008, 03:46:25 PM As a side question what is CCP's rationale for not letting people queue up training?
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 13, 2008, 03:51:38 PM My first quote is all of the information that they gave the players. And that it's being implemented in 2 days.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Endie on October 13, 2008, 03:52:50 PM RE: the phoenix versus other dreads - Basically, you have the same issue with other missiles only magnified. The only thing you can hit with citadel torps and do full damage is the tower itself, other capital ships, and cynojammers. This is not true: you can also one-shot machariels that move inside shields and sit their with their MWDs running. :drill: Two-characters-in-phoenixes-by-Christmas-and-one-by-February crew checkin' in. Each trained without lapsing for more than a few days. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: FatuousTwat on October 13, 2008, 05:33:45 PM RAGE.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 13, 2008, 05:49:10 PM Quote and capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not. This is a massive lie it only takes two minutes to log on and train a skill that's why we enjoy the game it uses semi passive training. Are they trying to lead us to believe that there has been a huge uproar about this from a certain sector of the player base? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 13, 2008, 05:59:56 PM Just read this announcement a little more transparent but still doesn't make it right ;)
Quote from: CCP link=topic=http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592 date=1223945350 why ghost training was disabled reported by CCP t0rfifrans | 2008.10.13 23:17:25 | NEW | Comments As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug. It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription. Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better. Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug. Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database. We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to: 1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 13, 2008, 06:10:50 PM Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug. Cute. Quote Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). Right off of http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp (http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp) Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Llyse on October 13, 2008, 06:15:47 PM I've never trained a long term skill lapsed and even I hate this. :uhrr:
This gives 0 incentive to all my friends who have left. If they're really worried about people leeching they should cap the amount of skill points gained i.e. say 2 weeks/1 month whatever. it will still benefit people but depending on the additional ghost training time it can't be abused as much. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Kitsune on October 13, 2008, 06:28:42 PM So, thanks to their genious plan, all of the people who paid for one month and skill trained while not paying for another month will instead unsub and not pay for any months. Oh boy, there's no way this can fail!
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Phildo on October 13, 2008, 06:38:20 PM I do not support this.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nevermore on October 13, 2008, 07:03:34 PM Just read this announcement a little more transparent but still doesn't make it right ;) Quote from: CCP link=topic=http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=592 date=1223945350 why ghost training was disabled reported by CCP t0rfifrans | 2008.10.13 23:17:25 | NEW | Comments As many of you know by now, on Wednesday, Oct 15th, CCP will put out a server update disabling "ghost training". Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug. It should be noted that we're not changing offline skill training for active subscribers in any way. This change only affects those who do not have an active subscription. Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives. But it's also a company. We make a product, sell it, get salaries and then continue maintaining the product and making it better. Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug. Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database. We can look at this from a variety of angles, but it all comes down to: 1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription 2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak 3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online First off, I don't see how a skill training while an account is inactive can 'weigh heavily on our database infrastructure'. The data is going to passively sit there whether the skill is 'training' or not. Secondly, make your game more fun and people wouldn't get so board they'd rather just let their subs lapse in the hope they can do something more entertaining when they resub. Guess what, geniuses. Now they'll just not bother to reactivate. *queues up the Guinness guys again* Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: apocrypha on October 13, 2008, 11:35:49 PM I fucking hate EVE. I've been playing it for four bloody years and the entire time it's been THIS CLOSE to being an amazing awesome game but CCP fuck the details up every single chance they get.
30% increase in GTC costs and now this = farewell EVE for me. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Reg on October 14, 2008, 02:23:25 AM Quote First off, I don't see how a skill training while an account is inactive can 'weigh heavily on our database infrastructure'. The data is going to passively sit there whether the skill is 'training' or not. Secondly, make your game more fun and people wouldn't get so board they'd rather just let their subs lapse in the hope they can do something more entertaining when they resub. Guess what, geniuses. Now they'll just not bother to reactivate. *queues up the Guinness guys again* Exactly. They don't even have to look at that data until the user actually signs on. They mention seeing a sudden upsurge in lapsed subscription training though. Is it possible that the isk farmers discovered a profitable way to create sellable characters and that's why they're putting a stop to it? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 14, 2008, 04:08:59 AM Maybe, but if so, here's an idea: solve the isk farmer problem rather than shit on the real playerbase.
So, here's another fun fact about people who train while inactive: they almost always reactivate. Why train otherwise? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 14, 2008, 05:59:29 AM TBH, this is another way where the old guys are at an advantage. They have been doing this for 5 years now. You are just screwing over newer players and guys with multiple accounts (your bread and butter CCP).
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 14, 2008, 06:31:26 AM One other thing. They characterize this as a "bug" but my information states that the Chinese server has had this feature for a long time. This leads me to think it's not a bugfix but a configuration switch of some kind. Plz be more disingenuous?
I'll never get why most less-professional game developers continually seem to try to locate fun things that the playerbase has found by itself, and since it doesn't conform to this week's "Vision" it gets whacked. CF also the nano nerf. The interesting thing to me is that I have neither done dark training nor have I skilled and monied up enough to fly nanoships, but I still think its stupid to nerf either one. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Gets on October 14, 2008, 08:23:56 AM While I understand the nano nerf (cruisers being faster than interceptors; no effective countertactic to nanodiving) the removal of ghost training is a blow to everyone, either wallet or playing experience. As Thrawn already pointed out it has been long acknowledged and accepted by the devs, but you can count on CCP to actually take a feature and claim it to be a bug. I would have understood blaming it on the current economic situation with Iceland's banks or claiming that the whole island is on the brink of capsizing from all the internet spaceship nerds about to fly there and they need to chain themselves to Greenland. Sugarcoating it that "it's a bug and we really really didn't want to bother with it before" is no different than when they changed GTCs, blaming it on the economy (heh-heh) but later stating that was just to make it sound more rosy.
I'm sure as heck going to have to drop at least one of my characters, even though I don't want to. Just can't get myself to earn that much ISK and have time to do other things in the meantime, and GTC prices (RMT-wise) are likely to rise because of the increased need to keep accounts active at all times. Someone was already willing to buy a card for 525mil ISK in IRC today. If the prices keep soaring, it looks like it's actually more preferable to sub with good old reality money again. I enjoyed training my alts, even though I used them very little, but the higher upkeep just removes the fun and without that there's no incentive to play at all. If I had the resources right now, I'd buy a mining character for each of my accounts and make multi-boxing my new income. Alas, I'm terrible at making money in EvE and already in debt. I recently updated by video drivers. It added a WoW Free Trial link right next to my EvE shortcut :| Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 14, 2008, 08:53:58 AM It gets better: the SSL server is down for maintenance (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896834), meaning that people cannot log into their account maintenance page to re-subscribe (or to ragequit) even if they want to.
Hopefully they fix it by the time they take down the game servers for the patch, but probably not. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 14, 2008, 08:59:29 AM I recently updated by video drivers. It added a WoW Free Trial link right next to my EvE shortcut :| Icecrown, Alliance. Come carebear with me. :pedobear: Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 14, 2008, 09:00:28 AM Icecrown, Alliance. Come carebear with me. :pedobear: What, really? I should get my account back on icedown. Edit: Retrieved my account. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 14, 2008, 09:22:42 AM Note, I'm not quitting EVE, just "playing the field" a bit....
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 14, 2008, 09:28:36 AM Neither am I. I am, however going down to one account, and I MIGHT let it lapse for a month or two as I'm feeling pretty burned out right now. I had planned to go for capships but this skill training thing leaves that plan in ruins - inoue has (had) 20 days until large pulses, so I was going to fly a pulse apoc until march while bhodii cooked for a phoenix (BSV, AWUV, JDOV).
Now, I don't know what I'm going to do. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 14, 2008, 09:38:29 AM Well, my wife talked me into "part time" WoW, starting from scratch on a new server, PVE so no PVP headaches, hence Icecrown. Now, in the past she has lacked the staying power to get past, oh say level 30ish, so who knows how long it will last. But we're still going strong moving within spitting distance of 20, so who knows.
The great thing about EVE is I'm still training for a Serious Business Megathron while all this is happening. ETA about Christmas. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 14, 2008, 09:56:12 AM Well, my wife talked me into "part time" WoW, starting from scratch on a new server, PVE so no PVP headaches, hence Icecrown. Now, in the past she has lacked the staying power to get past, oh say level 30ish, so who knows how long it will last. But we're still going strong moving within spitting distance of 20, so who knows. Send me a PM, I'd like to do the newbie thing too.The great thing about EVE is I'm still training for a Serious Business Megathron while all this is happening. ETA about Christmas. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: kildorn on October 14, 2008, 10:17:53 AM Brilliant move, CCP!
Seriously, what the shit? If you're noticing half your playerbase reups for a month and never logs in again, maybe the issue isn't the payment model, but the incentive to Not Play. Stress on the Database my ass. Logged in accounts fighting over shit stresses the system. A number incrementing? If that's mauling your database, I'll sell you my old desktop and it can handle all the counting for you. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Sparky on October 14, 2008, 02:02:40 PM This, the speed nerf, the suicide ganking nerf and mostly GTC price increases has me thinking about putting my account on ice for a bit. CCP are just making one shitty change after another recently.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Der Helm on October 14, 2008, 02:12:59 PM Fuck you CCP. This stupid move will make me cancel my subscription. Voting with my wallet and all that.
Fuck you CCP. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nerf on October 14, 2008, 02:17:05 PM Speaking of the suicide gank nerf, it was my understanding that CCP is still planning on removing insurance payout for it as well. So right after they make it damn near impossible to pull off outside of a battleship they ditch insurance, making cost per gank well over 100mil if you're soloing.
I wont cry about canceling any accounts over this, but I've only got the one right now and the longest trains I have planned in the near future are 20d or so each, so I'm just keeping it active, it's only $15/mo. I still want to emphasize what I said before though, I've quit EVE 3 or 4 times, and every time I've come back one of the main reasons has been "hey, now I've got that awesome skill I trained to level 5 before I quit, so I'll be that much better!" This is only going to hurt their bottom line, if they want to keep people subbed they should examine why people were letting their accounts lapse in the first place. Edit: To all of those quitting, can I have your stuff? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Phildo on October 14, 2008, 02:43:19 PM Helm, don't go!
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 14, 2008, 04:52:29 PM CCP apologizes (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=93#2773) for calling it a bug even though it was listed as a feature in their player guide (and declare that they are still going to nerf it).
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 14, 2008, 05:07:42 PM Good of them to apologize, out of all the recent changes that have been made this one bothers me the least.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Der Helm on October 14, 2008, 09:32:53 PM Helm, don't go! I did not say I won't resub, I will probably come back, but canceling my accounts is the only way to send CCP a message, so I will do just that.Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Predator Irl on October 15, 2008, 04:14:17 AM My guess is that some fucking fat-cat in a suit is looking how to pinch the pennies and couldn't give a fuck about the players. Their backtracking apology shows it was a decision made by some asshole thats looking at the books and not the game. If truth were known, the devs are probably not in favor of this either.
Either way, it wont affect me because I subbed for the year already. I figure if I'm gonna bust my balls earning money in the game, I want to spend it in the game too. Between this and the nano nerf, its going to be a lonely year in Eve space! Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 15, 2008, 06:41:33 AM CCP devs don't care about the players. They care about the game, and improve it to the point where it looks good to them, and that's it. They never consider whether players can actually see those tiny fonts or those ugly overlays, and they don't care how frustrated we get by the zillion tiny bugs that they consider acceptable. There's a difference between making something so it looks good (to you), and making something so it can be appreciated and praised by others.
They don't care. So the fat-cat that you're imagining is actually one of them or all of them. Torfifranz made the announcement... that's T20's best buddy, isn't it? They all want this extra money they're imagining we're stealing from them. They're kinda like the DRM folk. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 15, 2008, 07:28:33 AM Torfifranz made the announcement... that's T20's best buddy, isn't it? Is that the Dev involved in the T20 scandal? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 15, 2008, 07:36:17 AM T20 was the (internet) name of the dev involved in the scandal. Otherwise, I don't know who they are or what their relationships with each other are, just had the impression that CCP's "suits in charge" are actually the devs who created the game. They don't have a publisher controlling them, whatever decisions are made are their decisions.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 15, 2008, 07:42:55 AM They strike me as very lurchy in their decision making. They decided seemingly in the space of a day to nerf the speed stuff, then backed off of it on the eve of the patch. Now they're seemingly putting it back in without any additional design on it.
Then they give this world-shaking announcement two days before their proposed date to implement. Lots of well-reasoned (and some not well reasoned) arguments notwithstanding. Why post a thread if you aren't going to listen to anything anyone says in it? Just make an announcement. It's like they wake up each day and decide what to do that afternoon. No forethought is given from what I can tell. I find that usually devs aren't quite as dumb as people credit them, but it's hard to see from here. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Endie on October 15, 2008, 08:22:49 AM They strike me as very lurchy in their decision making. They decided seemingly in the space of a day to nerf the speed stuff, then backed off of it on the eve of the patch. Now they're seemingly putting it back in without any additional design on it. Then they give this world-shaking announcement two days before their proposed date to implement. Lots of well-reasoned (and some not well reasoned) arguments notwithstanding. Why post a thread if you aren't going to listen to anything anyone says in it? Just make an announcement. It's like they wake up each day and decide what to do that afternoon. No forethought is given from what I can tell. I find that usually devs aren't quite as dumb as people credit them, but it's hard to see from here. No, the speed patch has been revised and rebalanced quite a bit, they are saying. I think it's fair that they looked at the results on the test server, saw that vagas in partilcular had been over-nerfed on agility, and took it back to look at the numbers. Missiles and drones are being tweaked, both directly and through looking at counters (lol defender missiles). Obviously, the patch isn't popular, but by the time it goes in with the expansion it will have had something like six months or so of testing between the two versions. I wonder if the reason for the short-dated announcement might be that lapsing the account is when the skills counter is now turned off, and that they wanted to make sure that those who were about to lapse didn't have the chance of deciding to set a long skill and maybe get the benefit of it. Of course, from our position without knowledge that is a high risk. But for them, knowing that it would be the case, it looks like people still getting freebies. Just speculation, of course. Maybe they honestly think this will gain them revenue, and wanted the money to start rolling in at once... Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Megrim on October 15, 2008, 08:36:13 AM While i'm not a fan of the mechanic change, i want to echo what Slay has said: this is really, really, screwing the people who aren't a part of the 'old boys club'. Don't have 5 years to train Cap Ships V? Too bad so sad, grind it out thx. Why would you want to shaft the younger players? It's not like they can grind harder to make-up the difference, the gain is at a fixed rate. The saddest part is that they can't provide a reasonable (or even believable) explanation for the change.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Phildo on October 15, 2008, 08:51:28 AM But why reward people for not playing the game? I still don't see the appeal in signing up for EvE, playing for a few weeks, then going inactive while a long skill trains. I like the game, I think it's fun, and I don't want to cancel my subscription. If I did, I probably wouldn't care if I was one skill better or not if I ever came back.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 15, 2008, 08:54:59 AM But why reward people for not playing the game? I still don't see the appeal in signing up for EvE, playing for a few weeks, then going inactive while a long skill trains. I like the game, I think it's fun, and I don't want to cancel my subscription. If I did, I probably wouldn't care if I was one skill better or not if I ever came back. Because it was listed as one of the benefits to eve and very likely makes them more money in resubbed accounts? You don't get to 'reap' those benefits until you resub, and there is a hard cap on how much 'gain' you get, to the tune of whatever skill was training when your account lapsed. I know I would care if I was one skills better or not, if that skill's a long-train gateway skill that opens up new possibilities. Like BS V, or large turret V. Capital skills. Stuff like that. None of this is relevant, however, since it's been 5 years - why would you change it now? Also, try and think of this differently. It's like a skill bonus if you resub. Kind of like WoW does 10 day free trials for previously subscribed members, you get 0-30 days of free skill points instead. When viewed this way, it's a retention tool, and a good one. Or was. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Vedi on October 15, 2008, 09:28:57 AM None of this is relevant, however, since it's been 5 years - why would you change it now? Possibly because the usage patterns changed. It's a fair guess that this was originally a bug, turned into a feature to give people another reason to return to the game, as you say. However, nowadays many have multiple accounts, often payed for by time cards and trained for specific reasons (miner, refiner, carrier pilot, whatever). Builds are around that attempt to maximize the usage of offline training for alts. This scenario is quite different for CCP - they are actually losing money on this, and it is not an incentive in these situations to resub as that was always the plan. If these usage scenarios have become common, I can't say I blame them for doing this. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Phildo on October 15, 2008, 09:31:45 AM My gripe wasn't directed at people who unsubbed and decided to give the game a second chance, it was more aimed at people who were exploiting the system like Vedi mentioned in order to either create sellable characters cheaply or who just didn't enjoy the game enough to keep playing it while not learning new skills every day.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 15, 2008, 09:51:00 AM But the way it's set up, no matter whether people are farming characters up or not, CCP makes money.
Several examples:
Actual cost for any of the above to CCP? One line of code to check where the character is in his skill training when the sub is reactivated (compare start_of_skill() to now()). Compared to the situation after this change: some of the above will continue as stated except keeping active subs. Some - I submit: more - will just eschew the whole idea. For example, I was considering starting a hulk pilot to sell. Part of the plan was dark training. Cost in ISK was about half the 2b I would get for him. Now it's about even, so I doubt I'll do it. Cost to CCP: 2 60 day GTCs at least, additional steady sub from the eventual buyer. I doubt I'll even be doing a power of 2 at this point. Cost: one more steady sub. Total: 2 steady subs, 2 60-day GTCs. And that's just from one non-hardcore player. I hope they make enough off the hardcore who are willing to keep all those subs active to compensate for it. The ceiling is now effectively higher for average joe to invest in the game. edits: accuracy Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 15, 2008, 10:22:12 AM Yup Jayce is about right with those observation I am basically the third on that account but I ain't farming up for cap ship I have always paid dollar for my main and used ISK to fund my alts and with datacores selling so low at the moment it means I have to find another means of making ISK. I'm pretty sure I can suicide gank still in a battlecruiser but need to test it first.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: lac on October 15, 2008, 11:09:54 AM I try to do some training while my account is inactive for the first time in 12 months and they pull the plug after 4 days...
I was rather looking forward to resubscribe once my shiny new BS V skill was done. Now resubbing will mean a dreary 30 day skill training. I somehow doubt this will cause me to subscribe an extra month. I can see how they wanted to stop people using this to create chars they sell to buy gtc's to fund more chars they can sell for gtc's, etc. I'm sure Eve will survive fine without it but it does take some of the charm and incentive to resubscribe away for the average player. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Pax on October 15, 2008, 11:36:08 AM Additionally, selling a char basically costs 20$ - an amount that easily and neatly covers any ghost training.
I, for one, used ghost training, it was a feature after all, so I'm glad I got frigate 5, cruiser 5 and battleship 5 out of the way while the feature lasted. Battleship 5 is gonna cost some 45 Euros now :| Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 15, 2008, 11:38:07 AM Yup Jayce is about right with those observation I am basically the third on that account but I ain't farming up for cap ship I have always paid dollar for my main and used ISK to fund my alts and with datacores selling so low at the moment it means I have to find another means of making ISK. I'm pretty sure I can suicide gank still in a battlecruiser but need to test it first. Its doable, but anything with a halfway decent tank gets to laugh at you and fly away. Concord response is about twice as fast, so go all gank , no tank. It lost a lot of it's luster for me, but I'm sure I'll dabble in it again someday. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 15, 2008, 11:40:15 AM Its doable, but anything with a halfway decent tank gets to laugh at you and fly away. Concord response is about twice as fast, so go all gank , no tank. It lost a lot of it's luster for me, but I'm sure I'll dabble in it again someday. We'll just have to start organizing to do it in pairs. :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: mutantmagnet on October 15, 2008, 01:36:18 PM But the way it's set up, no matter whether people are farming characters up or not, CCP makes money. Several examples:
This part of your calculation is being handled wrong. If you look at the account population as made up of only players then you would be right. Therefore this change would make CCP lose money. But the account holders aren't just players but also professional character sellers. Professional character sellers are the people CCP are trying to price gouge and they are deliberately doing this even though it affects the bottom line of their customers who come to only play the game. I didn't think of this at first and it's surprising after reading the threadnaught noone has made that point. Regardless it's a good idea of raising revenue iff the amount of character sellers outweighed the number of customers who pay to play. But because of the way CCP handled this I know if I was an investor I would be on the phone demanding someone get fired for this fiasco. As good of an idea it might be I don't have access to CCPs datapoints to know with confidence that professional character sellers was outpacing the growth of real players ghost training. The way they handled it was so terrible that even if originally the idea was good the idea is now bad because people are going to quit over this and character sellers as a result will face less demand for their services. If CCP originally didn't account for the possibility of character sellers reducing their ghost training for any random reason then all their careful calculations have been destroyed because of shitty P.R. As a result I would want someone either from accounting or marketing to be fired if revenue doesn't meet projections two months from now. But I'm not an investor so I'm not going to care that much. *shrugs* Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 15, 2008, 02:14:25 PM I don't get that argument. There's no way to (legitimately) get RL cash from the game, only vice versa. And you can't live on ISK, so how are the professional character sellers an issue? Every GTC card sale for isk eventually turns into cash for CCP.
If you're talking about isk sellers, they're already illegal and from what I can tell, CCP do a pretty good job of tracking and banning them and removing the isk from the game. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Endie on October 15, 2008, 05:16:28 PM Battleship 5 is gonna cost some 45 Euros now :| What the hell are your perception and willpower? It only took me 36 days or so, with +3s. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Miasma on October 15, 2008, 06:07:57 PM So you have to train for over thirty days for each race's battleship? Is there a standard race that everyone does that for or are they all pretty good?
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Phildo on October 15, 2008, 07:57:05 PM All depends on what you want your BS to do.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 15, 2008, 07:59:40 PM You must train for each race's battleship. People take it to 5 so they meet prerequisites for (each race's) capital ships or T2 ships.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Pax on October 16, 2008, 12:58:04 AM Battleship 5 is gonna cost some 45 Euros now :| What the hell are your perception and willpower? It only took me 36 days or so, with +3s. I used a naked clone so it would take longer on purpose. Took 42 or so days, so even if it's some 37 Euros instead of 45, or howevermanyhundredsofmillions ISK, the point still stands. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: apocrypha on October 16, 2008, 02:07:42 AM I don't get that argument. There's no way to (legitimately) get RL cash from the game, only vice versa. And you can't live on ISK, so how are the professional character sellers an issue? Every GTC card sale for isk eventually turns into cash for CCP. If you're talking about isk sellers, they're already illegal and from what I can tell, CCP do a pretty good job of tracking and banning them and removing the isk from the game. Farming characters for selling for ISK is a great semi-passive way of ISK generation. Making ISK is the boring part of the game, the fun is in the pvp, which you need ISK for. Datacores are at rock-bottom low prices, missions are tedium2, trading is time-consuming and requires considerable savvy and skill, suicide ganking has been nerfed to buggery, manufacturing margins are incredibly low, invention similarly, low-sec piracy has been all but destroyed because of FW (and plus it was always only a very few who managed to make a decent living from it), exploration is something I've never tried but from what I hear it can also be very very tedious, miningzzZZzZZzZZZZzzzz, POS profiteering is arduous and hard to make money from.... Having a 3rd account, funded entirely with ISK, slowly training up specialist characters for selling, using ghost training as much as possible was an awesome way to make ISK without having to spend hours and hours doing incredibly boring shit. I sold 2 characters in the last 2 years and made about 20 billion ISK profit. I was halfway through training up a minmatar recon specialist for a 3rd sale when the speed nerf was mooted which caused the prices for minnie chars to plummet. Then GTC costs spiraled and now ghost training has been stopped, so that char is now pretty much worthless for me to continue developing. More and more it feels like CCP are removing all options of making ISK to fund the fun (pvp) without having to grind, and frankly, I think that's a big mistake for them. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Predator Irl on October 16, 2008, 02:17:25 AM Then GTC costs spiraled and now ghost training has been stopped, so that char is now pretty much worthless for me to continue developing. Won't this make your character more valuable now that it will take people more effort to train? More and more it feels like CCP are removing all options of making ISK to fund the fun (pvp) without having to grind, and frankly, I think that's a big mistake for them. Well, in a way they are making it a more level playing field for everyone. Isn't that going to help the game long term ? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: apocrypha on October 16, 2008, 04:18:52 AM Won't this make your character more valuable now that it will take people more effort to train? Well, in a way they are making it a more level playing field for everyone. Isn't that going to help the game long term ? First point, possibly yeah. I'll keep an eye on the char sales forum and see, although they'll have to get a lot more pricey before it's worth the current GTC costs to continue training him. Second point, well I dunno, EVE has never been a level playing field - T2 lottery, uneven distribution of good rats/complexes/decent moons/etc, insider info certain alliances have had, devs playing in major alliances, massive advantages of older players over newer ones, etc. However much of that has been fixed or denied doesn't change the fact that a general perception people have of EVE is that it's not a fair game in any way. And if leveling the playing field means reducing everything to the lowest common denominator of tedious grinding to make ISK for fun... well.. that's not a good bit of game design now is it? Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: ajax34i on October 16, 2008, 05:37:52 AM I sold 2 characters in the last 2 years and made about 20 billion ISK profit. 2 years worth of subscription fees converted to GTCs = 6 billion ISK. 2 x transfer fees of $20 converted to GTCs = 0.750 billion ISK. You made 20 billion on top of these costs? To me it sounds like they're trying to make buying ISK via GTC's the most cost-effective way of avoiding the grind, rather than farming characters. Maybe they're seeing lots of people with a farm of 20-30 characters and not liking it. If you made 20 bil profit on 2, why not diversify and grow 20 for a 200 bil profit. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: apocrypha on October 16, 2008, 05:55:03 AM Hmm, maybe closer to 18 bill then. I did get lucky with them in terms of selling each when their race & specialties were in demand. Caldari mission runner and a Gallente industrial alt, plus with careful planning and ghost training I didn't have to spend as much as 6 bill for their GTCs.
I did consider having more than one for-sale character on the go at a time but that plus the 2 accounts I was playing for real started to make the Evemon planning annoying. You start to feel tethered to the bloody thing when there's that many skill changes going on :p Plus they're not investment-free - GTC's, skillbooks and implants for lots of chars was, given my knowledge of CCP's nerfing tendencies, too much of a risk for me. I have to admit I suspected that char sales were going to get a nerf sometime for a while now, although I always thought they would suddenly ban the practice out of the blue one day - it is the CCP way after all :p Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 16, 2008, 06:36:16 AM Remember that these days you cannot resub with a purchased GTC if you follow their rules these days.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 16, 2008, 06:56:56 AM so is ghost training officially off? like, as in, anyone checked?
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Pezzle on October 16, 2008, 08:36:23 AM I cannot see the skill training change as a reason to quit. Yeah they used inactive training as a lure but that is not what EVE is really about. I see this as just a small chance we will see less cap ship pilots and less spies, both of which I consider good things. Unfortunately those are probably unintended side effects :P
The strange way they announce these changes is not good. Eve does strike me as the devs pet project rather than a game we are meant to enjoy. This will impact on me minimally, in case I forget to resub and training shuts off for a few hours or a weekend. That is about all. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Endie on October 16, 2008, 08:42:13 AM I cannot see the skill training change as a reason to quit. Yeah they used inactive training as a lure but that is not what EVE is really about. I see this as just a small chance we will see less cap ship pilots and less spies, both of which I consider good things. Unfortunately those are probably unintended side effects :P The strange way they announce these changes is not good. Eve does strike me as the devs pet project rather than a game we are meant to enjoy. This will impact on me minimally, in case I forget to resub and training shuts off for a few hours or a weekend. That is about all. I agree on the fact that maybe there will be a few less alts around, which is no bad thing. And the change won't hugely affect me, either: I rarely lapse my huge army of alts as it is. I'll probably consolidate and empire alt with a goon one (since they never have to be in the same place at the same time), but that's it. As regards the sentence I bolded, you probably know this already but Eve was pretty much a pet project of the devs. A lot of the early impetus on Eve came from people who played UO in particular, enjoyed the hardcore PvP, and wanted to develop that while "fixing" some its they disliked. I think that a few of the weaknesses have come where that original vision was diluted. That said, I know that CCP was around in 1997 so they must either have been quick off the mark or had other aims as well in the beginning vOv. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 16, 2008, 08:46:34 AM Yeah, I don't think it's a reason to quit either. As my TLDR post before proves, it's definitely a good reason to go down to one or two accounts at most so that's why I think it will backfire if more money is what they are after.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 16, 2008, 08:54:26 AM Even with the current mass of bugs/issues/lag I still think I enjoy EvE much more then I would enjoy going back to some standard carrot-on-a-stick grindfest MMO.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 16, 2008, 10:36:59 AM Yeh that's why I agree with Jayce I won't be spending any more money on Eve I'll just have less ISK to play with and only use two accounts now instead of three.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: LC on October 16, 2008, 11:33:04 PM Already canceled my account. This is just one more thing to add to my list of reasons.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Pezzle on October 17, 2008, 04:06:44 AM Yeah, the devs were making something for themselves but when you try and attract customers it becomes something else. It is not about YOU anymore. They seem to be going that direction. CCP is looking for more customers, bigger market share. Some of the things I really like about EVE are gone or infrequent. EVE TV concept was great, I want it back. Tournaments and the like which are broadcast. New and fun ideas, entertainment. No, that is not a substitute for fixing glaring game problems LIKE THE FUCKING UI, however, it is better for me than one of the shitty vague and ultimately pointless blogs or at this point the CSM. Yes, I think the CSM could be useful, but EVE TV is more entertainment.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Slayerik on October 17, 2008, 05:59:26 AM Already canceled my account. This is just one more thing to add to my list of reasons. I saved my 'can I have your stuff?' for LC. Since I saved it for you, I am big winnar right??? :) Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 17, 2008, 07:57:20 AM Yeah, the devs were making something for themselves but when you try and attract customers it becomes something else. It is not about YOU anymore. They seem to be going that direction. CCP is looking for more customers, bigger market share. Some of the things I really like about EVE are gone or infrequent. EVE TV concept was great, I want it back. Tournaments and the like which are broadcast. New and fun ideas, entertainment. No, that is not a substitute for fixing glaring game problems LIKE THE FUCKING UI, however, it is better for me than one of the shitty vague and ultimately pointless blogs or at this point the CSM. Yes, I think the CSM could be useful, but EVE TV is more entertainment. Hah c'mon the CSM can be way more entertaining than EVE TV, I really thought EVE TV was only average myself but did have plenty good points. I think the main problem was that it was a little bit clique and I suppose CCP might have envisioned it bringing new players to the fold. Unfortunately to outsiders it would or could make eve look a bit shit, if I was new to Eve and watched it I would be more inclined not to sub. I wish they would fix the fucking UI myself and the memory leaks, oh and I did I mention I want a skill queue :grin: Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 17, 2008, 08:00:33 AM I honestly think if I had a skill queue, even if it was only 1 skill deep, I'd be more likely to forget when my training is done and loose training time. :uhrr:
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 17, 2008, 08:12:53 AM Nah Thrawn you couldn't possibly it would be awesome :sad_panda: I just thought of a new idea, the CSM and EVE TV together televised bouts of Jade Constantwhine and Darius mudslingin!!! ok I'm trollin now I'll back off.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Thrawn on October 17, 2008, 08:34:21 AM Nah Thrawn you couldn't possibly it would be awesome Actually, yeah...if I had a 5 day followed by a 7 day skill training. I'd only have to remember to add another skill sometime in that 7 days, don't know what I was thinking. That would be pretty great. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: LC on October 17, 2008, 03:38:10 PM Already canceled my account. This is just one more thing to add to my list of reasons. I saved my 'can I have your stuff?' for LC. Since I saved it for you, I am big winnar right??? :) No. You can't get "stuff" from an inactive account. I canceled all 5 of my accounts last month. I only had 1 day left on the subscriptions. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nerf on October 17, 2008, 03:54:07 PM Depending on the amount of stuff, I'd gladly reactivate them (and train a skill for you!) to get at it ^_^
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: LC on October 19, 2008, 12:37:47 PM Depending on the amount of stuff, I'd gladly reactivate them (and train a skill for you!) to get at it ^_^ You are really out of luck then. Part of my reason for quitting is because I needed to go spend a week ratting. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Nerf on October 19, 2008, 01:24:01 PM Sadface. Guess it's back to suicide ganking with borrowed haulers for a bit :drill:
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 25, 2008, 08:51:12 AM I let my account lapse this morning and when I reactivated it was still training so I think you get a day ghost training at least.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: FoXX on October 27, 2008, 06:09:35 AM Pardon the ignorance but if you let your account lapse, will it still be on the database/resub-bable in six months time........
I understand the ghost training aspect but just wondered whether CCP delete your account after a period of non-subs. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Amarr HM on October 27, 2008, 06:14:06 AM No Im 99% sure they don't.
Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: Jayce on October 27, 2008, 10:25:05 AM Pardon the ignorance but if you let your account lapse, will it still be on the database/resub-bable in six months time........ I understand the ghost training aspect but just wondered whether CCP delete your account after a period of non-subs. My 2005 character was still there when I resubbed early 2008. Title: Re: Skill training of lapsed accounts stopping 8/15 Post by: bhodi on October 27, 2008, 10:31:15 AM I think Final Fantasy 11 is the only MMO that actually DELETES characters. Some (city of heroes) sends them to 'offline storage' but they can always be retrieved.
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