Title: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2008, 09:57:22 AM It's October again, and here' what's on my short list and why.
Oct 21 gets me Fable 2 and Little Big Planet. Fable 2 is for the wife, who doesn't have any Bullfrog experience and actually liked Fable. That's fucking it until December, which contains FFXIII and Persona 4. What did I miss? Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 07, 2008, 10:10:15 AM lol
Dead Space Age of Booty Saints Row 2 LBG Fable II Star Ocean: First Departure Castlevania: Order of Ecclasia Fallout 3 C&C Red Alert 3 Motorstorm: Pacific Rift Gears of War 2 Tom Clancy's End War Resistance 2 Call of Duty: World at War Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World Mirror's Edge Valkyria Chronicles Left 4 Dead Animal Crossing: City Folk The Last Remnant Gothic 3 Luminous Arc 2 Chrono Trigger DS AoE Mythologies DS Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories PS2 Persona 4 Ar Tonelico 2 Dungeon Maker II You made this thread just to bait me didn't you? Also, this is with no investigation. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Cyrrex on October 07, 2008, 10:14:56 AM :awesome_for_real:
Oh, and wait one GOD DAMNED SECOND. FF13 is really coming out in December? Really? REALLY? I had for so long assumed that that was a bullcrap date, so I haven't bothered to keep up with it. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 07, 2008, 10:15:56 AM No, Yegolev is just crazy and making things up.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Cyrrex on October 07, 2008, 10:22:02 AM Well, didn't I just fall for that hook, line and sinker. There is a special place in hell for Yegolev. It's right next to all them bitches not voting for Palin.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Rasix on October 07, 2008, 10:23:49 AM Will buy this month:
Fallout 3 LittleBigPlanet Fable 2 (may try and wait on this one) Not sure how I'm going to buy 3 $60 games right around my wife's birthday. This may involve a parade of disappointing 360 RPGs making their way back to Gamestop. Will buy rest of year: Persona 4 Want to buy but family changes means I should probably control my spending: Resistance 2 Saints Row 2 Gears of War 2 Mirror's Edge (fucking hell, already?) Dead Space Game I hope I don't buy: Wrath of the Lich King (I really hope WAR doesn't manage to bore/disappoint me before then, because WoW pvp is dogshit in comparison) There's been a lot of stuff released recently that I'd like to pick up (Witcher Enhanced, Spore, etc) and a lot of stuff I'm just forcing my brain to ignore that it exists (what PC? I see no PC games I wanted. NANANANA *plugs ears*). Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Reg on October 07, 2008, 10:38:06 AM Have they released the technical requirements for Fallout 3 yet? It's getting awfully close to the release date. Maybe this will be the game that finally forces me to upgrade my ancient computer.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2008, 11:23:51 AM OK, will admit that this thread was bait if schild admits his list contains at LEAST 50% bullshit.
I did forget Fallout 3 because I have it preordered and I am very "fire and forget". But YES to Bloody Mess. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 07, 2008, 11:25:33 AM Oh, is this what I'm supposed to be buying? I thought you just wanted to know what was coming up.
Take off the following then if it's BUYING IT: Animal Crossing The Last Remnant Gears of War 2 Tales of Symphonia The rest I'm picking up. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2008, 11:27:12 AM Oh, hey, is anyone really going for that Castlevania fighting game bullshit other than schild and Killjoy?
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2008, 11:29:42 AM I KNOW what's coming up motherfucker... However since I really do live under a Gamer Rock I will allow that. I mean RADAR as in what you will designate as a target to obtain before Q109.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 07, 2008, 11:30:00 AM wtf?
Castlevania Judgement isn't on that list. Order of Ecclasia is the new 2D sidescroller. Where's your head, yeg? :grin: Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Sky on October 07, 2008, 11:34:04 AM Dead Space and Fallout 3 are on my list, but much later when I can afford them (and if they don't suck). GTA4 will be out for PC 11/18. Gothic 3 was ok, but I'm not sure I want to play through it again just for the expansion content.
I'd like to have 1/10th schild's gaming budget :awesome_for_real: Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 07, 2008, 11:40:41 AM My head is in fucking beer right now. I honestly did not know about any real Castlevania game. I will need to investigate and report back to Killjoy, since he's an enormous douchebag.
Your list is still full of shit. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Jain Zar on October 07, 2008, 02:00:29 PM If there is another 2d Castlevania game this fall, it means my short list has 3 games on it.
It, Guitar Hero 4, and Fallout 3. My longer list includes piles of Atlus Turn Based SRPGs, and tons of Wii VC titles. Plus existing games FF4 and Lego Batman. I've got too many old games to play and money is tight and I would rather buy tabletop games instead. Hell, with VMWare Fusion I can now play lots of my older XP titles and with a copy of 98, a bunch of games XP shits on or makes a pain in the ass to run. (WARLORDS 3 MOTHERFUCKERS YEAHHH!!! Master of Orion 2! Planescape Torment! The SSI 40K games!) Basically I need them to stop releasing new videogames that aren't named Dragon Quest for the next 3-4 years or so when I can catch up. (Or Phantasy Star.) Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: MrHat on October 07, 2008, 03:40:58 PM My head is in fucking beer right now. I honestly did not know about any real Castlevania game. I will need to investigate and report back to Killjoy, since he's an enormous douchebag. Your list is still full of shit. When we going to drink together fucker. Also: Fallout 3 and Fable 2. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 09, 2008, 09:12:11 AM When we going to drink together fucker. According to the wife: NEVAR. However, time will tell. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Morfiend on October 09, 2008, 09:15:49 AM Dead Space
Saints Row 2 LBP Fable II Fallout 3 Gears of War 2 Resistance 2 Mirror's Edge Left 4 Dead Guitar Hero World Tour? Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 09, 2008, 09:19:40 AM When we going to drink together fucker. According to the wife: NEVAR.Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: FatuousTwat on October 09, 2008, 10:47:26 AM Dead Space
Saints Row 2 Fable 2 Fallout 3 Left 4 Dead (I really hate using the 4 instead of for) That is pretty much it I suppose. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: eldaec on October 09, 2008, 11:14:52 AM October : Fallout 3
November : Red Alert 3 December : GTA4 January : ??? February : Empire Total War. I have no idea if I have the dates right. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: stray on October 09, 2008, 05:48:26 PM I'm less than thrilled.. As far as newish titles go, it seems like there are lot of shooters out or coming out (PS3) :\
Deadspace, Socom, Resistance, Fracture, Brothers in Arms, Mercenaries LBP and Fallout are notable exceptions, but I've pretty much disliked everything Bethesda (not to mention Fallout is probably shooter-like too?). And LPB just seems like an occasional diversion (albeit it neat one). Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Azazel on October 09, 2008, 06:55:26 PM We need one of those comprehensive lists, broken down by platform like we used to have.
At least for the now-Christmas period. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Velorath on October 10, 2008, 03:02:41 AM We need one of those comprehensive lists, broken down by platform like we used to have. At least for the now-Christmas period. Feel free to make a list of the 350+ games coming out between now and the end of the year (and that's counting multiplatform stuff as just 1 game). Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: stray on October 10, 2008, 06:06:07 AM Geez? If I can't find something between now and then, then my gaming days are definitely over. :grin:
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Strazos on October 10, 2008, 06:36:47 AM Dead Space, if it does not suck.
Fable 2, hopefully for free. :grin: Mirror's Edge. Hopefully I get to confirm I want it when I get to play the demos. Persona 4. Never even opened my copy of Fes. Don't care, still buying it. Fallout 3. AT first I REALLY did not want to get this, but damn, it's grown on me....just hope it's not post-apocalyptic Oblivion. Gonna take a hard look at Gears 2. And I need to see how Valkyria Chronicles is. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 10, 2008, 08:29:05 AM We need one of those comprehensive lists, broken down by platform like we used to have. At least for the now-Christmas period. No, see, I want to avoid that because I have looked into the Eyes of the Beast and it's full of Barbie Horse Adventures. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Moaner on October 10, 2008, 12:37:07 PM Fuck. This holiday is going to suck as I'm saving my monies for a trip to Greece next year. WOLK, Fable 2, and Left 4 Dead are the only games I'm allowing myself this season. :ye_gods:
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Chenghiz on October 12, 2008, 04:30:12 PM Far Cry 2
Mirror's Edge (not for a while, thanks EA) Empire: Total War Gee, looks like I won't be dropping as much money on games as I thought I would be. Was going to get WotLK but now I'm not so sure, I do enough other stuff that WoW would be getting in the way. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Sky on October 12, 2008, 09:32:38 PM I see EQ2 is putting out another expansion (via amazon's email, wonder what busted the wheels off SOE's propaganda cart). Was thinking about playing a bit more come winter time, but also considering the new WoW expansion since I haven't played WoW since a few months after release with my 58 hunter. Kinda wish the WoW exp had both expansions.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yoru on October 13, 2008, 02:17:48 AM I'll be picking up Fallout 3 probably in mid-November, but that's the only guaranteed buy. I'm in wait-and-see mode for Deadspace and Fable 2 (is F2 even on the PC yet?), so those are candidates for December. Late December I'll probably pick up WAR.
Left 4 Dead will be dependent on whether it gets a lot of play at the office; there's no way I'm playing that against random internet idiots. That's about it until The Sims 3 in February, I think. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Azazel on October 13, 2008, 02:33:00 AM 350 Games? Damn, thats a lot of companies making a loss in a crowded market then.
Gonna watch or buy these: Left 4 Dead WotLK Saints Row 2 Lego Batman Fallout 3 (maybe) GH:WT CoD:WoW Clancy: Endwar GoW2 Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Murgos on October 13, 2008, 07:23:51 AM My immediate future is Fable II (I'm a recent victim of the pre-release hype), Fallout 3 and GoW2. I would have had Saints Row 2 in there also but recent reviews have left me thinking it will be a good 'some other time when nothing else interesting is around' game.
I mean, why ass around with 'good' when there is 'GREAT!' just waiting for your time? Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 13, 2008, 07:43:52 AM I can't care about Gears of War 2 with Left 4 Dead, Killzone 2, and EndWar coming out.
Something about the way UE3 titles from Epic (namely Gears and Unreal 3) look. They're just 100% unappetizing to me. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Murgos on October 13, 2008, 07:53:53 AM Honestly? I don't play that many shooters. GoW is the last one, I think, and I played it to completion so I am willing to give it another go. Heck, I haven't even played HALO 3 or Crysis or Far Cry yet.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 13, 2008, 08:04:35 AM I mean, why ass around with 'good' when there is 'GREAT!' just waiting for your time? Congratulations on understanding the thread. I could buy lots of halfass bullshit, or I can just get the best of the best and maximize my enjoyment. For example, I have prepurchased the LotRO expansion, Mines of Moria. It's already paying for itself with the fancy cloak and title I got upon purchase, and it's pretty damn economical. $29.95 for in-game perks is better for me than $ungodly_sum for physical trinkets. I'm playing MOGs so I don't have to accumulate physical trinkets. With that out of the way, I'm now looking at: Fallout 3 Infinite Undiscovery Little Big Planet Fable 2 Persona 4 Castlevania: Order of Ecclasia Animal Crossing I want Dead Space to be good, but I'm cautious regarding games that rely on a gimmick. Killjoy is going to pester the living fuck out of me to get ChronoTrigger, but I really haven't been sitting on the toilet very long these days. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 13, 2008, 08:07:41 AM Gimmick? How does Dead Space rely on the dismemberment gimmick anymore than Fallout 3 is Oblivion with VATS and Little Big Planet is Spore the Platformer.
Also, Animal Crossing? One of these things is not like the others. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 13, 2008, 08:21:05 AM Gimmick? How does Dead Space rely on the dismemberment gimmick anymore than Fallout 3 is Oblivion with VATS and Little Big Planet is Spore the Platformer. Also, Animal Crossing? One of these things is not like the others. I'm 100% prepared to never finish Fallout 3 due to the Post-Apoc Oblivion factor. I'm trying to put a positive spin on it and think of it as Oblivion with a great combat mod and a post-apoc reskin. I'm an optimist. Really, though, it's probably the weakest title on my list. LBP looks like a lot of fun for building shit. I don't know what other bits there might be in it, I'm just after the building part. I like Animal Crossing and I'm not ashamed. I'm a collect-em-all whore; in fact, I like AC for some of the same reasons I like Castlevania. I'll play it and I'll love it, unless they somehow threw a huge-ass monkeywrench of donkey dick into it... like adding minigames or improper waggle or something. Not all gimmick games are bad, of course. Max Payne, Psi-Ops, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. But then there is Geist. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 13, 2008, 08:26:09 AM I'm pretty much feeling that, having played Fallout 3 a good bit, that STALKER is just superior. Both suffer from 'walking simulator' syndrome.
Dead Space has to fill the hole in my soul until RE5. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Jeff Kelly on October 13, 2008, 09:14:31 AM I am just waiting for Guitar Hero World Tour
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Jain Zar on October 13, 2008, 12:33:59 PM Hell, I just realized for the price of any 1 upcoming 360 game I could have 6 months worth of awesome on Wii VC.
Probably MORE than that. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 13, 2008, 12:35:04 PM Hell, I just realized for the price of any 1 upcoming 360 game I could have 6 months worth of awesome on Wii VC. Until you realize you're spending money on ROMs.Probably MORE than that. Your nostalgia meter is totally broken though, and we know that. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: bhodi on October 13, 2008, 04:15:29 PM I like Animal Crossing and I'm not ashamed. I'm a collect-em-all whore; in fact, I like AC for some of the same reasons I like Castlevania. I'll play it and I'll love it, unless they somehow threw a huge-ass monkeywrench of donkey dick into it... like adding minigames or improper waggle or something. I hope you have read the terrible secret of animal crossing (http://autoreiv.com/animalcrossing/OP.htm)...Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Jain Zar on October 13, 2008, 08:13:14 PM Hell, I just realized for the price of any 1 upcoming 360 game I could have 6 months worth of awesome on Wii VC. Until you realize you're spending money on ROMs.Probably MORE than that. Your nostalgia meter is totally broken though, and we know that. There are plenty of old games I think are shit. There are also plenty of old games I never got to play the first time around because we don't all have your magic game buying ability. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Rasix on October 13, 2008, 10:23:02 PM Yes, but you're talking about ROMs. You don't have to pay $5-$8 a pop for them. Plus, savestates!
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: lesion on October 13, 2008, 11:14:13 PM STALKER is just superior I am fully prepared to skullfuck you with a snowmobiledo you accept this boon? [y/n] Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Azazel on October 14, 2008, 02:01:33 AM My immediate future is Fable II (I'm a recent victim of the pre-release hype), Fallout 3 and GoW2. I would have had Saints Row 2 in there also but recent reviews have left me thinking it will be a good 'some other time when nothing else interesting is around' game. I did that with the first Fable. I now have a permanent aversion to Molyneaux-on-or-near-release. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: MisterNoisy on October 14, 2008, 05:11:24 AM For those of you looking up to pick up Fable 2, you can get some in-game lewt for your toon (1000 gold + items) at this spiffy Fable 2 promo site (http://fable2.xbox.com/experience.aspx?lang=en-US).
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 14, 2008, 11:59:26 AM I like Animal Crossing and I'm not ashamed. I'm a collect-em-all whore; in fact, I like AC for some of the same reasons I like Castlevania. I'll play it and I'll love it, unless they somehow threw a huge-ass monkeywrench of donkey dick into it... like adding minigames or improper waggle or something. I hope you have read the terrible secret of animal crossing (http://autoreiv.com/animalcrossing/OP.htm)...New to me! But that is, oddly, one reason I like AC. I like hating on Tom Nook. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Jain Zar on October 14, 2008, 02:35:32 PM Yes, but you're talking about ROMs. You don't have to pay $5-$8 a pop for them. Plus, savestates! I'm not into stealing. Its not me. Hell, I put other people's wayward shopping carts away in the Wal Mart parking lot. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 15, 2008, 06:31:01 AM Also I find playing a ROM on the Wii is more convenient than doing the same on a PC.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 15, 2008, 06:37:51 AM Dead Space is pretty much amazing. More later.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yoru on October 15, 2008, 07:56:40 AM I just watched the launch trailer. Seems to be a zombie shooter in space? That gets it removed from my list, most likely.
Is there more to it than zombies in space? Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 15, 2008, 10:42:12 AM Dismemberment horror puzzle space shooter, I think. I might see if it is at the Best Buy on the way home, since the 21st is SO FUCKING FAR AWAY.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Morfiend on October 15, 2008, 10:46:55 AM I just watched the launch trailer. Seems to be a zombie shooter in space? That gets it removed from my list, most likely. Is there more to it than zombies in space? Gamespy was drooling all over it. They basically called it Half-Life + Bioshock + Zombies + Space + MORE SCARY. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 15, 2008, 11:06:04 AM Dumbasses. Bioshock + Space = System Shock 2. Is GameSpy run my children? But yea, I'm hoping for more SS2 and less HL2.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 15, 2008, 11:19:00 AM Bioshock + Space would still be boring.
Dead Space is way beyond Bioshock in the atmosphere/horror department. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Sky on October 15, 2008, 12:11:51 PM Which isn't saying much.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 15, 2008, 12:21:55 PM Which isn't saying much. How about this, it's a horror PC game. I think this is the first one since SS2, since I wouldn't really call Bioshock Horror, more like twisted fantasy imo. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Sky on October 15, 2008, 12:44:46 PM Better. Looks cool, hope the gameplay holds up.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 15, 2008, 12:55:18 PM Better. Looks cool, hope the gameplay holds up. I haven't played the PC version yet, but I imagine it's fine.Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yoru on October 15, 2008, 02:54:10 PM I just watched the launch trailer. Seems to be a zombie shooter in space? That gets it removed from my list, most likely. Is there more to it than zombies in space? Gamespy was drooling all over it. They basically called it Half-Life + Bioshock + Zombies + Space + MORE SCARY. Gamespy is a Downs kid; he'll drool on anything put in front of him. Also, I wasn't terribly impressed with Bioshock beyond the art direction. I'll probably pass, play a friend's copy or pick it out of the bargain bin a year hence. Now, if it had co-op multiplayer, it'd be a whole different story. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Yegolev on October 16, 2008, 03:11:48 PM Seems that Dead Space has the SecuROM.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 16, 2008, 03:40:01 PM Sigh. Jerks.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Morfiend on October 17, 2008, 11:29:29 AM Anyone play Saints Row 2 yet? I really want to get it, but due to severe lack of funds, I am going to have to be careful about what games I buy with so many good ones coming out.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: MisterNoisy on October 17, 2008, 02:41:00 PM Anyone play Saints Row 2 yet? I really want to get it, but due to severe lack of funds, I am going to have to be careful about what games I buy with so many good ones coming out. I picked it up for PS3 on Tuesday, and while it can't touch GTA4 on a visual/technical or story level (and is quite frankly in poor taste more often than not), it's hugely entertaining, especially in co-op (which works surprisingly well). Gameplay-wise it shits all over GTA - tons of stuff to do, fully customizable characters, no annoying phone calls or relationships to maintain, checkpoints in missions (YES!), and just a more arcadey/fun feel all around. All the wacky shit from the first one, and more added on top of it. If you like 'sandbox'-type games and especially co-op mayhem, I'd say buy it ASAP. If you're not sure, rent it first and then decide later, but I've no doubt that I'll be getting my $60 worth out of it. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: stray on October 17, 2008, 09:55:04 PM damn.. i think my gaming disease really is dead. 350 titles and everything still sounds lame and [vastly] played out
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: schild on October 17, 2008, 10:43:54 PM Stray, I think you're just on your bi-monthly gaming period. You'll stop being a bitch in a few weeks and pick up Dead Space and Little Big Planet. Otherwise you're just being apathetic for the sake of apathy.
Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: stray on October 17, 2008, 11:15:03 PM This isn't bi-monthly disinterest. I haven't played anything since AoC - and that was for, umm.. a few hours tops? I don't know.. I can't think of anything else.. Uncharted, whenever that came out. That was pretty good. Oh, and GTA IV, which turned out to be a technically impressive snoozefest. I've been disinterested in general for a good year now though.
I need a grand rpg or adventure heavy game, with some new mechanics or perspective on things. And I need both of those. Lots of immersion and cool gameplay. There are some games out there with fresh ideas, but they're so bare bones... just quaint little games basically, and not much in the way of story or presentation. The idea of another foray into the Fallout world is very appealing -- if, to repeat something often repeated, it wasn't from Bethesda. That seriously fucking ruins it. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Azazel on October 18, 2008, 12:43:38 AM For those of you looking up to pick up Fable 2, you can get some in-game lewt for your toon (1000 gold + items) at this spiffy Fable 2 promo site (http://fable2.xbox.com/experience.aspx?lang=en-US). I got a 3-piece chicken siut. How do you get the cash? Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: MisterNoisy on October 19, 2008, 02:40:58 PM For those of you looking up to pick up Fable 2, you can get some in-game lewt for your toon (1000 gold + items) at this spiffy Fable 2 promo site (http://fable2.xbox.com/experience.aspx?lang=en-US). I got a 3-piece chicken siut. How do you get the cash? Do the really shitty chicken-kicking game (linked from the splash page - the barrel on the bottom left of the page). Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Murgos on October 21, 2008, 07:01:37 AM X3:
And it's on Steam, so that's a win. I didn't get it yet because I'm pretty much not going to be able to play anything for a couple of weeks and even then my backlog is HUGE. But it's definitely going on my list. Title: Re: Short-term radar Post by: Azazel on October 21, 2008, 07:03:27 AM For those of you looking up to pick up Fable 2, you can get some in-game lewt for your toon (1000 gold + items) at this spiffy Fable 2 promo site (http://fable2.xbox.com/experience.aspx?lang=en-US). I got a 3-piece chicken siut. How do you get the cash? Do the really shitty chicken-kicking game (linked from the splash page - the barrel on the bottom left of the page). I tried that. It just seems really, totally random. |