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f13.net General Forums => World of Warcraft => Topic started by: Morfiend on November 08, 2004, 11:35:56 AM



Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Morfiend on November 08, 2004, 11:35:56 AM
Desaster or Promised Goodness? Many testers hate it.

I really dont like the new death penalties, or the durability stuff, or the regents.

Quote
Racial Traits

Racial traits are now available for all races. Each race receives at least 4 traits (several passive and at least one active trait per race). Undead racial traits have changed to be more consistent with the new traits and Undead players are now considered Humanoid targets rather than Undead targets. The following is a full list of traits:

Dwarf

Stoneform: Activate to gain immunity to poison, disease, and bleed

Gun Specialization: Increase Gun Skill

Frost Resistance: Increase Cold Resistance

Treasure Finding: Activate to see treasure chests on mini map - lasts until canceled - no cooldown



Gnome   

Escape Artist: Activate to break out of a Root or Snare effect

Expansive Mind: Increase Intelligence

Arcane Resistance: Increase Arcane Resistance

Engineering Specialist: Increase skill bonus to Engineering                       



Human   

Perception: Activate to increase stealth detection radius

The Human Spirit: Increase Spirit

Diplomacy: Bonus to faction point gain

Sword Specialization: Increase Sword skill                                                                  



Night Elf

Shadowmeld: Activate while immobile and out of combat to enter stealth mode

Quickness: Dodge chance increased

Wisp Spirit: Become a wisp when dead with movement speed increase

Nature Resistance: Increase Nature Resistance


Orc

Blood Fury: Activate to increase Strength

Hardiness: Increase resistance to stun & knockout effects

Command: Pet melee damage increased

Axe Specialization: Increase to Axe skill                                            


Tauren   

War Stomp: Activate to stun opponents

Endurance: Max Health increased

Cultivation: Increase skill bonus to Herbalism

Nature Resistance: Increase Nature Resistance                                             


Troll   

Berserking: Activate when "Wounded" to increase melee & spellcasting speed

Regeneration: Increase health regen bonus

Beast Slaying: Increase damage bonus to Beasts

Throwing Weapon Specialization: Increase Throwing Weapon skill.


Undead   

Will of the Forsaken: Activate to become immune to fear, sleep, and charm effects

Cannibalize: Increase health regeneration while consuming a corpse

Underwater Breathing: Underwater breath increased

Shadow Resistance: Increase Shadow Resistance



New Raid Encounters

Rumors of Onyxia, an enormous black dragon, have been heard through out Azeroth. Be sure to bring many brave warriors for she won't take kindly to intruders in her lair. Both factions will need to complete unique, and challenging quests to gain access to the Onyxia encounter. **During the beta testing there will be a temporary placeholder vendor who sells keys to Onyxia's lair for testing purposes.

Discovered in the heart of Blackrock Mountain beyond the Depths, lies the Molten Core. Within the Molten Core lives a multitude of ancient and powerful evil. Adventurers be ware, for the dangers found within the Molten Core are many and takes many forms.

**Raid loot is being worked on and temporary loot has been placed in raid encounters

New Kodo mounts!

There is but one creature in all of Kalimdor that possesses the strength and stamina to bear a tauren rider into battle: the majestic kodo beast. Swifter and slightly smaller than their wild cousins, kodo mounts nevertheless demonstrate the same resilience and fearlessness found in their untamed brethren, traits that serve them well when bearing their equally resolute riders. It is said that only the most virtuous of tauren can win the affection of a kodo war mount, for these mighty beasts only serve those that approach them with honor and respect in their hearts.

Tauren players will no longer have the Plainsrunning ability, due to the availability of Kodo mounts. Tauren players can purchase the Kodo mount at Bloodhoof village.

Talents


*   Paladin talents are now available.

*   Hunter talents are now available.

 
General Changes
(detailed information for each below)  


*   Higher level dungeon monsters (level 30+) have had their experience values increased.

*   Experience needed to gain levels from level 30+ has been increased (to compensate for the dungeon monster change)

*   On death, all equipped items will lose 10% durability.

*   Durability loss through fighting has been decreased (mainly to accommodate the new penalty for dying)

*   The penalty for using a Spirit Healer has been changed - there is no longer any experience loss, instead all items (equipped and inventory) will take 100% durability loss and the character will gain resurrection sickness for a duration that scale according to level.

*   Spells that activate (proc) on kill will work on all players, but only monsters that would give experience points.

*   All spears are now polearms.

*   Polearm proficiency can now be learned by Hunters, Paladins, Warriors

*   Spear proficiency has been removed.

*   Minimum range on abilities now account for size of target and attacker.

*   Armor can't be swapped out while in combat. Other equipment such as weapons and accessories can still be swapped out.

*   Shift-click item info linking has been added to the auction interface.

*   You now get a 10% discount at high reputation for buying items, item repair, training costs, and taxi flights.

*   Line of sight calculation takes into account creature size.

*   Creatures should be more adept at chasing players.

*   Spawn animations for game objects are now visible.

*   Skills will not increase from use while dueling or engaged in PvP.

*   Texture linear filtering is turned on for the user interface.

*   Escort NPCs will assist players more often.

*   Escort NPCs and guards will no longer follow enemy players around.

*   NPCs which are performing work emotes will pause them and turn to you when you interact with them.

*   The Reanimated Corpse actually falls down now when it plays dead.

*   New graveyards have been added to many zones.

*   Players will not be able to train and purchase non-race specific mounts. In the next patch, we plan to implement a system in which players can obtain mounts from other races once they have reached a certain level of reputation with that race.

Quests


*   Onyxia Key Quests for both the Horde and Alliance are in and fully functional.

*   Eastern and Western Plaguelands have dozens of new quests.

*   Tirion Fordring's questline is now complete.

*   New PvP, Raid, and PvP Raid quests are live.

*   Quests for Molten Core have been added.

*   The completion of a quest may now result in a reputation adjustment of a faction or a group of factions.

*   More quests added to Desolace, including several Horde specific quests.

*   Horde quests added to Ashenvale, ranging from levels 19-30.

*   Hemet Nesingwary and his companions now like Horde players in addition to Alliance players.

*   More quests added to Stonetalon.

*   More quests added to Blackfathom Deeps. Blackfathom has been moved to Ashenvale and now has Horde quests.


Zones



*   Scholomance, a level 57-60 instanced dungeon in Western Plaguelands is now open.


*   Ashenvale has gotten a facelift to include more points of interest, and significant changes were made to make it easier to navigate.


*   Ragefire Chasm, a low level instance dungeon in Orgrimmar, is now available.


*   Deadmines: The Miners in the Deadmines are no longer elite monsters.


*   Blackfathom Deeps has been moved to the Zoram Strand in Ashenvale forest near the border of Darkshore.


*   More quests have been added for Eastern and Western Plaguelands.



PvP


*   Mind Control and Hunter's Mark flag you for PvP when used on enemy players.

*   Healing and buffing NPCs will not flag you for PvP unless those NPCs are in combat.

*   NPCs no longer tap creatures they are fighting.

Auctions


*   The current high-bidder's name no longer displays in the auction interface.

*   Each time a bid is made on an item, a small amount of time is added to the remaining auction duration.

*   Items you are the high bidder on will be indicated as such in the interface.

Professions


*   Leatherworking is now complete, you can make up to 300 leatherworking skill items.

*   Enchanting is now complete, you can perform enchantments that require up to 300 enchanting skill.

*   Engineering is now complete, there are engineering recipes that require up to 300 engineering skill.

*   Epic player crafted items that require raiding are now available.

*   Skeleton Keys added to blacksmithing. Smiths can now open locks (though the keys are consumed)

*   Expert and above skill tiers for secondary skills are no longer available on trainers, you need to find the books to teach you them. Expert level is on a vendor somewhere in the world, artisan level requires a quest to be completed.

*   Elixirs no longer stack with player spells that improve the same attribute

*   Enchanting recipes generally require more reagents for 200-250 skill items

*   Limited Invulnerability Potion Re-added to Alchemy, but at a higher level than it was previously.

*   Leatherworking recipes added to let light leather be turned into medium leather, medium leather into heavy and so on.

*   Light leather requirements for some 15-20th leather level items reduced to allow for faster skillup in that range.

*   Leatherworking Scorpid Recipes now require 2x the scorpid scales, but scorpids now drop the scales 4x as frequently.

*   Light leather now only takes 3 scraps to make instead of 4.

*   Starting Leatherworking recipe items improved.

*   Medium and Heavy leather now sells for less to vendors.

*   Pick pocketing now has a chance of getting you a locked Junkbox, which is a locked item that generally has money in it.

*   Ironweb Spider Silk now drops more often and some Tailoring Recipes require less.

*   The ingredients required to make some gnomish engineering items were changed.

*   Elixirs effects reduced somewhat for the higher level elixirs.

*   Dark Iron Armor stats have been changed.

*   Living Essence and Essence of Undeath drops decreased.

*   Silk and Mageweave cloth now sell for less to vendors.

*   All remaining profession trainers who train a single recipe have been turned into vendors.

*   Catseye Ultra Goggles and Catseye Elixir reduced in effectiveness.

*   Requirements to make blacksmithing recipes annihilator and invulnerable mail increased.

*   Artisan Level Fishing, Cooking, and First Aid quests are in the game. Trainers will no longer train artisan level in the aforementioned professions. Players must complete quests to gain artisan levels.

Pets


*   Pets, summons and guardians are not susceptible to charm.

*   Pets should be much better at chasing moving targets.

*   Pets and summons will use their combat abilities as often as possible.

*   When your pet or demon learns new spells and abilities they will show up on the pet action bar.

*   Charmed creatures will no longer use their summon spells while charmed.

*   The pet action bar is greyed out while the pet is confused or fleeing.

*   Imps no longer run around aimlessly if you turn off auto-cast for their firebolt.

Druid


*   Removed facing direction requirement from Entangling Roots, Faerire Fire, Hibernate, and Soothe Animal.

*   New Spell: Rebirth (Level 20).

*   New Ability: Feline Grace (Level 40).

*   Bear Form abilities that target one or more enemies now generate additional threat.

*   Enrage: Cooldown increased.

*   Growl: Now gives the target enough threat to attack you, cooldown added.

*   Hibernate: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Mark of the Wild: Ranks 5, 6, and 7 now require reagents.

Hunter


*   Glimpse of Instincts: Removed.

*   Outdoorsmanship skill line renamed Survival.

*   Ranged Combat skill line renamed Marksmanship.

*   Removed facing requirement from Hunter's Mark and Scare Beast.

*   Aspect of the Cheetah: Speed increased.

*   Aspect of the Pack: Speed increased.

*   Concussive Shot: No longer causes additional threat, duration and cooldown slightly increased, mana cost reduced.

*   Disengage: Effect boosted, cooldown added.

*   Hunter's Mark: Duration increased, dispels itself if the Hunter dies.

*   Mongoose Bite: Damage increased, mana cost increased.

*   Scare Beast: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Wing Clip: Slow effect now scales with level.

*   Feign Death: Duration increased.

*   New Spell: Track Beasts (Level 1).

*   New Spell: Track Humanoids (Level 10).

*   New Spell: Track Undead (Level 18).

*   New Spell: Track Hidden (Level 24).

*   New Spell: Track Elementals (Level 26).

*   New Spell: Track Demons (Level 32).

*   New Spell: Track Giants (Level 40).

*   New Spell: Track Dragonkin (Level 50).

*   New Spell: Distracting Shot (Level 12).

*   New Spell: Aspect of the Wild (Level 46).

Mage


*   Blink should work much more reliably and will not stop your movement.

*   Removed facing requirement from Counterspell, Detect Magic, and Polymorph.

*   Polymorph: Now dismounts the enemy target, increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Blizzard: Deals its damage in more frequent intervals.

*   Arcane Intellect: Ranks 4 and 5 now require reagents.

*   Teleport: Now requires a reagent.

*   Portal: Now requires a reagent.

*   Slow Fall: Now requires a reagent.

Paladin


*   Retribution Aura: Moved to level 16.

*   Judgement: Moved to level 50, renamed Holy Wrath.

*   Removed facing requirement from Hammer of Justice and Turn Undead.

*   Cleanse: Moved to level 42, mana cost increased.

*   Holy Light: Causes less threat, heal effect and mana cost increased.

*   Purify: Mana cost increased.

*   Turn Undead: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Holy Strike: Removed.

*   Crusader Strike: Removed.

*   Seal of Reckoning: Removed.

*   Healing Aura: Removed.

*   Dominance Aura: Removed.

*   Wisdom Aura: Removed.

*   Redemption: Removed.

*   Resurrection: renamed Redemption, no longer useable in combat.

*   **All Seals renamed Blessings. Several new spells have been added, which now use the naming convention "Seal".

*   New Spell: Seal of the Crusader (Level 12).

*   New Spell: Seal of Justice (Level 22).

*   New Spell: Seal of Light (Level 30).

*   New Spell: Seal of Wisdom (Level 38).

*   New Spell: Flash of Light (Level 20).

*   New Spell: Judgement (Level 10).

*   New Spell: Blessing of Might (Level 8).

*   New Spell: Blessing of Wisdom (Level 14).

*   New Spell: Blessing of Light (Level 40).

*   New Spell: Concentration Aura (Level 22).

*   New Spell: Divine Intervention (Level 30).

*   Resistance Aura: Split up into 3 new spells...Shadow Resistance Aura (Level 28), Frost Resistance Aura (Level 32), and Fire Resistance Aura (Level 36).

*   Seal of Fury has changed significantly.

*   Seal of Righteousness has changed significantly.

*   Blessing of Sacrifice: Moved to level 46, now transfers a flat amount of damage per hit, and has replacements.

*   Blessing of Salvation: Moved to level 26, duration increased, cooldown removed, effect reduced.

*   Blessing of Freedom: Moved to level 18.

*   Blessing of Protection: Moved to level 10.

Priest


*   Resurrect spells now use the same timer as when reclaiming your corpse. When a player is resurrected, they will have to wait for a set amount before they can click the accept button.

*   Resurrect now teleports you to the location at which the spell was cast, not to the caster's present location.

*   Removed facing requirement from Mind Control, Mind Soothe, Shackle Undead and Shadow Word: Pain.

*   Resurrection: No longer useable in combat.

*   Levitate will now be cancelled if any damage is taken, now requires a reagent.

*   Power Word: Fortitude: Ranks 4, 5, and 6 now require reagents.

*   Mind Control: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Shackle Undead: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   New Spell: Desperate Prayer (Level 10). (Dwarf/Human only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Starshards (Level 10). (Night Elf only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Touch of Weakness (Level 10). (Undead only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Hex of Weakness (Level 10). (Troll only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Fear Ward (Level 20). (Dwarf only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Feedback (Level 20). (Human only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Elune's Grace (Level 20). (Night Elf only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Devouring Plague (Level 20). (Undead only.) (Quest)

*   New Spell: Shadowguard (Level 20). (Troll only.) (Quest)

Rogue


*   Vanish will now cancel spells in progress and missiles in flight if they are being cast at the vanished player.

*   Poisons: Should now be resistable.

*   Removed facing requirement from Blind and Pick Pocket.

*   Lockpicking: No longer auto-ranks. It must be used to improve.

*   Sap: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   New Poison: Wound Poison (Level 32).

*   New Ability: Safe Fall (Level 40).

Shaman:


*   Removed facing requirement from Purge.

*   Rebirth: Renamed Ancestral Spirit, no longer useable in combat.

*   Water Walking: Now cancelled if any damage is taken, requires reagent.

*   Water Breathing: Now requires a reagent.

*   Earth Shock: Now causes additional threat.

*   Healing Stream Totem: Heals in smaller, more frequent intervals (roughly the same total over time).

*   Mana Spring Totem: Restores mana in smaller, more frequent intervals (roughly the same total over time).

*   Rockbiter Weapon: Now also makes your melee attacks cause additional threat.

*   Windfury Weapon: Much more responsive.

*   Windfury Totem: Much more responsive.

Warlock:


*   Only party members can participate in rituals.

*   Voidwalkers will wait for enemies in the area before casting Suffering.

*   Target of summoning ritual must already be in the same instance if caster is in an instance.

*   Summoning gives a confirmation dialog to person being summoned.

*   Ghosts can no longer be summoned.

*   A bug has been fixed in the calculation of total mana for Warlock pets.

*   Lash of Pain (Succubus): no longer requires the succubus to be behind the target.

*   Seduction (Succubus): Mana cost reduced, increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Soulstones: Now soulbound when created, are consumed to store the target's soul. When that target dies, he may resurrect himself any time up until release. Cooldown added.

*   Removed facing requirement from Banish, Corruption, all Curses, Enslave Demon, and Fear.

*   Demon spells are now available as Grimoires from the Demon Trainers in the world. Purchase the Grimoire and read it while the appropriate demon is summoned to teach it the spell.

*   Enslave Demon once again requires a soul shard, increased the chance of breaking early if cast repeatedly on the same target.

*   Howl of Terror: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Fear: Increased the chance of breaking early.

*   Rain of Fire: Duration, mana cost, and damage slightly reduced, deals its damage in more frequent intervals.

*   New Spell (Imp): Phase Shift (Level 12).

*   New Spell: Summon Felhunter (Level 30). (Quest)

*   New Spell: Inferno (Level 50). (Monster Loot)

*   New Spell: Curse of Doom (Level 60).

*   New Spell: Ritual of Doom (Level 60). (Monster Loot)

Warrior:


*   Inner Rage: Removed.

*   Pummel: Removed.

*   Heroic Strike: Now available in all Stances, damage increased on some ranks, decreased on others.

*   Sunder Armor: Now available in all Stances.

*   Shield Bash: Now available in all Stances.

*   Hamstring: Now available in Battle and Berserker Stance.

*   Rend: Now available in Battle and Defensive Stance, damage slightly increased on some ranks.

*   Recklessness: Moved to level 50, moved to Berserker Stance, can be cancelled early, now causes the Warrior to take extra damage instead of decreasing armor.

*   Bloodrage: Available in all Stances, cooldown increased.

*   Cleave: Moved to level 20, available in all Stances, damage reduced.

*   Mocking Blow: Moved to level 16, damage increased, replaced more frequently.

*   Shield Wall: Moved to level 28.

*   Slam: Available in all Stances, damage reduced, casting is pushed back when hit.

*   Thunder Clap: Damage increased.

*   Defensive Stance: Now reduces damage taken and damage caused instead of increasing Defense skill.

*   Intimidating Shout: Moved to level 22, no longer causes the targeted enemy to run in fear, but will cower in fear. The cowering effect is broken by damage.

*   Warrior abilities that target one or more enemies now generate additional threat.

*   Taunt: Now gives the target just enough threat to attack you. Cooldown added.

*   Berserker Rage: Moved to level 32.

*   New Ability: Retaliation (Level 20).

*   New Ability: Execute (Level 24).

*   New Ability: Intercept (Level 30).

*   New Ability: Whirlwind (Level 40).

Mac:


*   Shader based options are still disabled on the Mac client and are awaiting release of driver bug fixes from Apple and GPU vendors. We will release a patch to re-enable shader based graphic effects in Mac WoW when that becomes feasible

Bug Fixes:


*   Monsters with extra dodge chances have been corrected.

*   Abilities that activate off critical hits work off critical hits from abilities as well (Blood Craze, Enrage).

*   Blessing of salvation correctly affects healing over time spells.

*   If you tame the leader of a herd of Kodo with the Kodo Kombobulator the whole herd won't follow you.

*   If you close the disenchanting loot pane without looting the item, the Dust or Essence or Shard is automatically looted for you. (You no longer destroy the enchanted item if you close the loot pane with the results of the disenchantment)

Miscellaneous:


*   Vocal emotes now display a normal emote to the chat window, instead of the "Player says..." text. Voice Emote Audio is unchanged.

*   There is now a checkbox to turn off audio emotes.

*   Many boxes and crates ready to be looted have been added around the world.

*   Many new rare vendors selling weapons/armor/potions have been added around the world.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 08, 2004, 11:40:43 AM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 12:09:04 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


Yah, that staying in will prevent me from buying the game. I think it's an oversight or just a momentary lapse into abject, SoE level, stupidity. PUNISH THE PLAYERS FOR FAILING, YAH, FUCKEM. The death penalty was fine as it is.  

I don't think this game needs that big of a cash sink. There's already a ton of stuff you can blow your wad on: potions, enchanting, mounts, food/drink, etc.

A friend of mine was messing around with the tauren stomp last night and already concluded it was overpowered (he didn't mention the cool down timer though).  There's no way you should introduce a crowd control method that anyone of a certain race can use as a racial trait.  I think the introduction of them is dumb enough, given that they already have to balance classes in regards to both PVE and PVP.  If these guys aren't careful they're going to have an unmanageable game in the long run.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: personman on November 08, 2004, 12:24:51 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


10 not 100.  Still sucks.

Yeah it looks like WOW views merchants the same way DAOC does - independent merchants need not apply, be the guild mule or go hack stuff.  Already seeing craftables demanding planes raids.

How much you want to bet drops will be common enough that differences in stats won't matter as much to pure adventurers as the fact that they are free.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: El Gallo on November 08, 2004, 12:26:17 PM
The game needed money sinks, inflation was horrible.  Potions, etc aren't cash sinks because you are just passing money around from player to player.  The increased xp on instances is nice, since before you were pretty much punished for doing them, and they are fun.  People don't use the res spirits very much anyway (at least on PvE), but that lengthy res sickness should be axed.

The new taunt sucks pretty bad.  That's a real problem for instances.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 08, 2004, 12:30:14 PM
I also dislike the new death penalty.  You people who have gamed with me know just how much I can die.  A lot.  They have decided, however, to remove the death penalty for PvP in the next patch.  Hopefully they will, at least, tweak it for PvE too, if not remove it all together.

Another factor to consider (and hate) is that even the mob drops in your inventory will be affected the same way.  Considering merchants won't accept these damaged goods, it makes much of your hard earned loot pretty useless.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 12:39:38 PM
Quote from: Signe
Considering merchants won't accept these damaged goods, it makes much of your hard earned loot pretty useless.


And you can't repair what you can't wear. Uggg.. I wish companies would stop making me feel queasy about purchasing their games.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Morfiend on November 08, 2004, 12:40:36 PM
A few things on the death stuff.

It IS 100% if you res at the spirit healer. Which really sucks, except, in my 48 levels as a warrior (dying a LOT) I only ever used the spirit healer maybe 5 times, and all but one of these times was under lvl 12.

The 10% loss on death, sucks, but they just announced they are removing it for PVP death. I have no problem with it now, as you dont die very often, and the cost to rapair 10% is pretty low.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 12:41:14 PM
Quote from: personman
Quote from: HaemishM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


10 not 100.  Still sucks.


Bob was reporting it was 100% if you take the res at the spirit healer.  Did they quick correctively patch it? Still, isn't it a 10% if you die, then another 10% at res (spirit healer)? Still, 20% is a lot better than 100.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 08, 2004, 01:03:44 PM
Quote from: personman
Quote from: HaemishM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


10 not 100.  Still sucks.

Yeah it looks like WOW views merchants the same way DAOC does - independent merchants need not apply, be the guild mule or go hack stuff.  Already seeing craftables demanding planes raids.

How much you want to bet drops will be common enough that differences in stats won't matter as much to pure adventurers as the fact that they are free.


So what does this mean then?

Quote
The penalty for using a Spirit Healer has been changed - there is no longer any experience loss, instead all items (equipped and inventory) will take 100% durability loss and the character will gain resurrection sickness for a duration that scale according to level.


Is the Spirit Healer the thing you use when you res at the Inn, or when you res at your body?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: personman on November 08, 2004, 01:07:58 PM
It's 100 at the spirit healer, sure enough.  The 10% I guess is for the res to the Inn.

I'm ignorant on WOW and just going by the quoted post here - I'm not involved in the beta though my interest is up since today an old friend is twisting my arm to join their DAOC PvP guild when they move over to WOW.

Quote

* On death, all equipped items will lose 10% durability.
(...)
* The penalty for using a Spirit Healer has been changed - there is no longer any experience loss, instead all items (equipped and inventory) will take 100% durability loss and the character will gain resurrection sickness for a duration that scale according to level.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: El Gallo on November 08, 2004, 01:11:10 PM
Spirit healer = you rez at the nearest graveyard with all your stuff.

otherwise, you run to your body (or get rezed by a player).


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Alkiera on November 08, 2004, 01:19:53 PM
Quote from: Signe
Another factor to consider (and hate) is that even the mob drops in your inventory will be affected the same way.  Considering merchants won't accept these damaged goods, it makes much of your hard earned loot pretty useless.


So, no equipment loss, you just lose all your loot, that you'd, ya know, sell to make up the money to pay to get your now-usless equipment repaired.

[sarcasm]Gee, that sounds great.[/sarcasm]

They seem to have made some major sweeping changes in this patch... there's an awful lot of "Removed these 12 abilities from $CLASS_3...  Added these 12 Abilities to $CLASS_3" in there.  I glanced at the boards, and apparently warriors, at least, are very unhappy.  Keeping agro is apparently much, much more difficult than previously, due to a change in how taunt works, among other things.

Not that they're the only ones to make major changes to the game just before launch... SOE changed skillgain from level-based to use-based in the last week of beta...  We'll have to see if your skillups are saved when zoning in the live game, they sure didn't always when last I played.

Alkiera


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 08, 2004, 02:14:38 PM
They keep taking fun out.

Reagents, sigh.

Death penalties, sigh.

Durability, sigh.

No battlegrounds, big sigh.

Only good thing in this are racial traits, talents, and kodo mounts.

Racial traits do need some serious looking at though.  Currently a Tauren can stun everything around him for 2 seconds every minute or so.  I thought for sure those racial abilities would be on a half hour timer at least.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 08, 2004, 02:16:48 PM
On having it explained to me, the 100% durability thing isn't as bad as I at first thought. It just seems a bit of an annoyance and bother, when I'd probably just rather take the xp hit.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
On having it explained to me, the 100% durability thing isn't as bad as I at first thought. It just seems a bit of an annoyance and bother, when I'd probably just rather take the xp hit.


Having all of your equipment immediately reduced to unusuable rubble including all of the crap in your inventory is just an annoyance? Whaaaaaa?  When did Geldon jump into your body?  

This is a death sentence at lower levels.

Edit: I could actually live with this, but I'd never ever ever use the spirit healer.  I'd take the exp hit every now and again if I was tired and just wanted to log.  So much for choice.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: sinij on November 08, 2004, 02:40:36 PM
How does durability works in WoW, do items break if you ever reach 0/x durability? How easy or cheap is it to fix your gear?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Alkiera on November 08, 2004, 02:53:28 PM
Quote from: sinij
How does durability works in WoW, do items break if you ever reach 0/x durability? How easy or cheap is it to fix your gear?


Sorta like Diablo2...  It's a percentage, and when it gets to 0%, you can't use the item anymore.  You can take them to someone to get them repaired, apparently, and it's not too expensive if it's just 10-20%, from what I've read.  100% is probably more expensive, tho one person on the boards mentioned being able to kill gray-cons naked in order to get the cash he needed to repair his equipment.

It doesn't disappear at 0%, at least.

Alkiera


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: kaid on November 08, 2004, 02:56:36 PM
You only take the 100% durability hit if you talk to the ghost/angel thing and rez at the graveyard. I did this just a handfull of times ever. Mostly when I was kamakazi exploring and I just didn't care.

Other than maybe PVP'ers I don't see it being something people bump into much if at all.


kaid


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: sinij on November 08, 2004, 03:00:43 PM
Quote from: Alkiera
one person on the boards mentioned being able to kill gray-cons naked in order to get the cash he needed to repair his equipment


I don't see this activity as being any fun. Also what happens if you log off dead? What happens if you PvPed, died and have someone camp your body?

Basically is it possible to avoid this type of ressurection at all times or there are times you have no choice but to do it?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Viin on November 08, 2004, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: sinij
Also what happens if you log off dead? What happens if you PvPed, died and have someone camp your body?

Basically is it possible to avoid this type of ressurection at all times or there are times you have no choice but to do it?


Quote from: signe
They have decided, however, to remove the death penalty for PvP in the next patch.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Liquidator on November 08, 2004, 03:05:33 PM
Quote from: Rasix
Quote from: HaemishM
So now on Death, if you res back at your Inn, you take 100% durability to all items? Wow, isn't that the suck.


Yah, that staying in will prevent me from buying the game. I think it's an oversight or just a momentary lapse into abject, SoE level, stupidity. PUNISH THE PLAYERS FOR FAILING, YAH, FUCKEM. The death penalty was fine as it is.  

I don't think this game needs that big of a cash sink. There's already a ton of stuff you can blow your wad on: potions, enchanting, mounts, food/drink, etc.

A friend of mine was messing around with the tauren stomp last night and already concluded it was overpowered (he didn't mention the cool down timer though).  There's no way you should introduce a crowd control method that anyone of a certain race can use as a racial trait.  I think the introduction of them is dumb enough, given that they already have to balance classes in regards to both PVE and PVP.  If these guys aren't careful they're going to have an unmanageable game in the long run.


I think it's good that this penalty was added in.  The death penalty in the game was virtually nothing before this, and now there is at least something that will cause the player to think twice about an encounter   - when to disengage, etc.  Having no penalty for death (other than the corpse run) allowed cheese tactics such as:  Group cannot defeat a group of monsters in a camp.  All of the monsters are too close together to single -pull.  What do people do as a tactic?  Pull the whole group of monsters, concentrate on one mob, kill it then the party dies, runs back to the camp, rinse, repeate.  Now that the loss of durability is in, maybe people will think twice.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 03:11:28 PM
Quote from: Viin
Quote from: sinij
Also what happens if you log off dead? What happens if you PvPed, died and have someone camp your body?

Basically is it possible to avoid this type of ressurection at all times or there are times you have no choice but to do it?


Quote from: signe
They have decided, however, to remove the death penalty for PvP in the next patch.


That's for the death itself. To avoid using the spirit healer, just hope that the honor system will discourage the corpse campers.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 08, 2004, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: Liquidator


I think it's good that this penalty was added in.  The death penalty in the game was virtually nothing before this, and now there is at least something that will cause the player to think twice about an encounter   - when to disengage, etc.  Having no penalty for death (other than the corpse run) allowed cheese tactics such as:  Group cannot defeat a group of monsters in a camp.  All of the monsters are too close together to single -pull.  What do people do as a tactic?  Pull the whole group of monsters, concentrate on one mob, kill it then the party dies, runs back to the camp, rinse, repeate.  Now that the loss of durability is in, maybe people will think twice.


Christ on a cracker. I THINK THE 100% THING IS EXTREME, I DON'T MIND THE INITIAL HIT ON DEATH.

As for your tactic.. hello, respawn?

Am I just being somewhat hard to follow today or do I need to start using flowcharts?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: sinij on November 08, 2004, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: Rasix
That's for the death itself. To avoid using the spirit healer, just hope that the honor system will discourage the corpse campers.


Discourage != stop.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 08, 2004, 03:29:18 PM
Quote from: Viin
Quote from: sinij
Also what happens if you log off dead? What happens if you PvPed, died and have someone camp your body?

Basically is it possible to avoid this type of ressurection at all times or there are times you have no choice but to do it?


Quote from: signe
They have decided, however, to remove the death penalty for PvP in the next patch.



Hey!  You used me to answer his question!  

I feel so dirty.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Alkiera on November 08, 2004, 03:37:29 PM
IIRC, 'corpse retrieval' in WoW is you're a spirit, like in UO, and more or less invisible to mobs and players(?) for the run back to body... when you get near(fairly large radius) you get rezzed back into a full avatar.  AFAIK, don't need LOS on corpse or to click it, just get close...  Where close is pretty far.

Alkiera


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Ardent on November 08, 2004, 04:47:56 PM
Quote
Druid:

* New Spell: Rebirth (Level 20).


The WoW forums are down, so I can't look this up. Did they finally cave and give rez to druids?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: bhodikhan on November 08, 2004, 04:51:46 PM
Yes. Hopefully that will make more groups want Druids.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Evil Elvis on November 08, 2004, 05:07:40 PM
Hrm.  Nix what I said.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Trippy on November 08, 2004, 05:31:38 PM
Quote from: El Gallo
The new taunt sucks pretty bad.  That's a real problem for instances.

Why would they do this? Warriors were already complaining that they had to spam Taunt the entire battle to even have a chance of holding aggro (it's deja vu all over again).

Quote

* The penalty for using a Spirit Healer has been changed - there is no longer any experience loss, instead all items (equipped and inventory) will take 100% durability loss and the character will gain resurrection sickness for a duration that scale according to level.

How long is the run, on average, from a graveyard to a place where you can mend your items, and are the paths usually through dangerous areas?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Morfiend on November 08, 2004, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: Trippy
How long is the run, on average, from a graveyard to a place where you can mend your items, and are the paths usually through dangerous areas?


Usually graveyards at at towns, and you can mend your items in town. The only probelm would be a few of the really high level zones that have no towns, or enemy zones with no towns. But really, the amount of times you rez at the healer compaired to doing a ghost run is about 0.3%, so its not that big a deal.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Viin on November 08, 2004, 06:52:48 PM
Quote from: Trippy
How long is the run, on average, from a graveyard to a place where you can mend your items, and are the paths usually through dangerous areas?


The graveyard is usually in town, so it wouldn't be far at all. The run to your corpse is what would take forever (usually).

Actually, I think this is a good move. It helps to prevent people in PvP battles from spawning right away and then running back to the action. Now they have to go back to their corpse and risk getting cut down again right away or have to wait until their chums get control of the area to rez them.

I've always hated how MMOs allow people to die, rez, fight, die, rez, fight - forever.  You never conclude a battle that way.  (We even saw this in Guild Wars with the GvG battle).

The 10% decay should also help for those times when The Bad Guys are in your town and won't go away after dying 50 times. Very annoying.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Alkiera on November 08, 2004, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: Trippy
Quote from: El Gallo
The new taunt sucks pretty bad.  That's a real problem for instances.

Why would they do this? Warriors were already complaining that they had to spam Taunt the entire battle to even have a chance of holding aggro (it's deja vu all over again).


Having read a dev reply in the forums, they changed things so that warriors wouldn't have to spam taunt... they made taunt basically put you at the top of the hatelist, and it has a 10 second timer.

Of course, the next time that 60 rogue breathes hard on it's back, it turns right around, since rogue damage/mage damage/heals/etc all do way more taunt than defensive warrior melee.

/thumbsup Blizzard

Alkiera


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 08, 2004, 07:56:55 PM
So taunt is now just like EQ? And corpse runs are really the way to go for death now?

Same as it ever was.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 08, 2004, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
So taunt is now just like EQ? And corpse runs are really the way to go for death now?

Same as it ever was.



Yup.

It seems like they are moving more and more towards the formula the closer we get.

Fucking Stupid.  God I hope they put in Battlegrounds ASAP, I need to vent.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Soukyan on November 09, 2004, 05:13:49 AM
Ain't it funny how EQ2 is now further removed from EQ1 than WoW is? O, the irony!

The funny thing is, WoW will probably end up with more players even if they keep harsh penalties intact. Apparently the game industry managed to attract masochists to the MMOG genre.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 09, 2004, 08:10:30 AM
MrHat's recent penchant towards aggression makes me hot.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 09, 2004, 08:27:21 AM
Quote from: Soukyan
Ain't it funny how EQ2 is now further removed from EQ1 than WoW is? O, the irony!


Not really when the point of EQ2 was. "We're completely different from EQ, we promise, no really, WE ARE. COMMON, BELIEVE US DAMNIT. Pinky swear!"

Quote

The funny thing is, WoW will probably end up with more players even if they keep harsh penalties intact. Apparently the game industry managed to attract masochists to the MMOG genre.


EQ2's death system isn't any walk in the park.  If you want your soul shard back, you're still going to have to trek back to your stinking corpse.  If not, you're welcome to eat that stat hit until the thing rots away (isn't it like 3 days?), and it is a significant stat hit (affects your HP heavily from what I saw). Plus, you get EXP debt, which will likely be a lovely footlong zucchini in the ass come later levels.

Both death penalties suck complete goat.  The 100% thing is probably the more masochistic of the two but it's for a somewhat rare (but at times needed) occurance.  

Attracts masochists? This isn't a new relevation.  We all played EQ (or SWG, AC1, AC2 (looking at you, Alizee), etc etc).


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Ardent on November 09, 2004, 09:44:58 AM
Quote from: bhodikhan
Yes. Hopefully that will make more groups want Druids.


Not really. Upon further research, the druid rez has a 30 minute cooldown timer.

Quote from: Rasix
Plus, you get EXP debt, which will likely be a lovely footlong zucchini in the ass come later levels.


Thanks for the funny. Hee.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Ardent on November 09, 2004, 09:51:15 AM
Anyone remember the Doug and Wendy Whiner sketch that Joe Piscopo used to do on Saturday Night Live? (Yes, I'm old, piss off.)

Seems like that's the general mood of the closed beta folks about the addition of reagents. People are saying that they are spending more on buffs for instances than they earn doing the instances. Any feedback on whether the whining is justified?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Soukyan on November 09, 2004, 09:55:15 AM
Quote from: Rasix
...AC2 (looking at you, Alizee)...


That was below the belt. But she is hawt, no? ;)

AC2's death penalty was actually one of the lightest ones. Vitae loss earned back by gaining experience. Of course, vitae loss did hurt the stats, so one was smart to avoid fighting anything too difficult until back at 100%, which usually meant killing several easy-ish mobs. Annoying? Yes. Frustrating to the point of logging off? No.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Rasix on November 09, 2004, 10:00:21 AM
Quote from: Soukyan
Quote from: Rasix
...AC2 (looking at you, Alizee)...


That was below the belt. But she is hawt, no? ;)

AC2's death penalty was actually one of the lightest ones. Vitae loss earned back by gaining experience. Of course, vitae loss did hurt the stats, so one was smart to avoid fighting anything too difficult until back at 100%, which usually meant killing several easy-ish mobs. Annoying? Yes. Frustrating to the point of logging off? No.


Ohh, I wasn't necessarily talking about the death penalty.  AC2's, while a pain in the ass if you die multiple times, is really a cakewalk compared to most.  The game itself, especially early on, was the exercise in masochism.  Some may disagree of course, but the point I think I was making is that playing games with painful inducing features is nothing new, hell, it's a staple of the genre.

Edit: And yes, she is the hotness.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Dren on November 09, 2004, 10:02:34 AM
I finally got into the game last night and played for 45 minutes.  I don't see what everyone is complaining about.  I didn't die once and had fun leveling to 5.

Really the solution is to just not die.  Pretty simple.  Or is there something past lvl 5 in this game?  Ok, nevermind.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Ardent on November 09, 2004, 10:22:46 AM
You pretty much have to make a conscious effort to die in the first 10 levels or so. Same with EQ2.

It's all fun at first ... but before you know it, you are Bubs from "The Wire" trying to sell t-shirts to drug addicts to earn enough for your next spike.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Dren on November 09, 2004, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Ardent
You pretty much have to make a conscious effort to die in the first 10 levels or so. Same with EQ2.

It's all fun at first ... but before you know it, you are Bubs from "The Wire" trying to sell t-shirts to drug addicts to earn enough for your next spike.


I can't wait.  

It's all fun and games until Dren catasses his way to the point where death is a chore and he ends up yelling at his kids for bothering him with filling "sippy cups" and made him die, because now he'll have to spend the next few nights getting back to where he was for equipment, money, and courage.

This game is going to cause such turmoil in my soul.  

I can't wait?


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Morfiend on November 09, 2004, 11:48:01 AM
Quote from: Dren
because now he'll have to spend the next few nights getting back to where he was for equipment, money, and courage.


It never gets that bad. At most I would say a few really bad deaths can put you back an hour or so. And that would be pushing it.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Resvrgam on November 09, 2004, 12:31:20 PM
I got a chance to experience WoW's new Death Penalty today and discovered how bad things can get when the developers don't actually play their games:

"Gee, let's punish our players when they die...it'll be fun!"

Due to the monopolistic ass-ram which is the Cable company around my parts, my ISP went down more than an Atlantic City Hooker today and caused me to go Link Dead while I was playing.

The bad news, I went link dead in some Firbolg Cave (I'm a Night Elfin Hunter) while questing for this dead druid's possessed corpse.  The world kept going but I noticed that chat was dead and NPC/object interaction was non existent and when I tried to Quit/Logout...it wouldn't respond.

After Alt-Tabbing the game and killing it manually, I restarted and logged back into a: "You have died, Release Spirit?" response.

Not wanting to experience the crap so many have complained about, I opted to hoof it back to my corpse.....15 minutes later....I arrive in the cave and ressurect myself (directly in the middle of a swarm of pissed off Furbolgs who, despite me running to get away, killed me within a few seconds of my return because my stats were all weakened [death sickness] and my pet died).

My Armour warnings were yellow across the board (The little decay warnings that appear when your stuff starts to become useless) due to losing 10% just because I died and NOT because of the Spirit Healer.  I knew I had enough loot to sell to get it all repaired so I bit the bullet and finally used the Spirit Healer...bad move.

I ressurrected directly at the Graveyard and ALL of the items I had were completely decayed and useless (including the unequipped gear/loot I was hoping to sell for cash to repair my stuff).  All those lovely suits of armour and weapons I didn't need or couldn't use and other "Decayable" items within my baggage were reduced to "0" condition and "1c" value.  When I tried to sell the decayed crap, the words "This vendor doesn't want that item" flashed across my screen in red text.

 This essentially means, I had to summon my pet and have him attack a few critters/weak enemies for an hour or so to grant me enough gear/skins for me to be able to sell for cash so I can slowly replenish my lost equipment (that would allow me to attack bigger things so I could spend all my time and money just trying to return to square one...before I even entered the cave and went link dead).

How did that even remotely register into the dev's minds that that was even fun?  A penalty is one thing but this felt like a punishment for something I had no control over.

I sure hope Blizzard rethinks this approach or I know I'm going to place this game in the same category LevelQuest 2 was chucked into:  NOT WORTH PLAYING, BUYING or TALKING ABOUT.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 09, 2004, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Resvrgam
I ressurrected directly at the Graveyard and ALL of the items I had were completely decayed and useless (including the unequipped gear/loot I was hoping to sell for cash to repair my stuff).  All those lovely suits of armour and weapons I didn't need or couldn't use and other "Decayable" items within my baggage were reduced to "0" condition and "1c" value.  When I tried to sell the decayed crap, the words "This vendor doesn't want that item" flashed across my screen in red text.


I was willing to accept that the 100% durability loss on items was a minor annoyance. But to actually make everything in your inventory, including items you aren't using decay on death is beyond retarded.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Ardent on November 09, 2004, 01:36:23 PM
Quote from: Resvrgam
When I tried to sell the decayed crap, the words "This vendor doesn't want that item" flashed across my screen in red text.


Hopefully this situation is corrected, or else Blizzard is going to be getting This customer doesn't want this game flashed across their subscription statistics.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: sidereal on November 09, 2004, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
But to actually make everything in your inventory, including items you aren't using decay on death is beyond retarded.


True, but otherwise you might have problems with people sheathing their good sword right before they die (Disclaimer: I have no idea whether this is possible in WoW).  Whole mechanic is dumb.

As far as I understand it, the point of a death mechanic is to a) prevent zergrushing everything with no fear of consequences and b) disallow churning armies in pvp.  Why dicking your equipment and moving you all over the place must necessarily be included is beyond me.  It's some kind of neverending Diablo hangover.

They should use the Nintendo death mechanic.  You have X # of lives.  Call it 3.  If you have less than 3 lives you acquire them slowly.  Maybe another one every day of realtime or something.  Maybe more slowly if you use them up a lot.  After death, if you have a spare life, you have to sit there for a while (assuming no resurrection), then you respawn all blinky and you have 30 seconds before you can be attacked again. . maybe enough to run away, run away.  Or if you're disconnected, you get the blinky next time you log on.  If you're out of lives, you get sent back home and maybe get your ritual equipment dicking or whatever.

It saves you from the occasional disconnect, but the limited # of lives keeps you from going kamikaze.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 09, 2004, 01:56:39 PM
I haven't tried the death penalty yet, but honestly, in the time I leveled my main to 51 I can count on 1 hand the number of times I had to use the spirit healer. Even if I died deep in some dungeon it was usually possible to rez somewhere relatively safe and patiently work my way back out.

I expect the death penalty will be tweaked some over the coming days.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Jamiko on November 09, 2004, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: sidereal
As far as I understand it, the point of a death mechanic is to a) prevent zergrushing everything with no fear of consequences and b) disallow churning armies in pvp.


b) makes no sense as they have already have removed the durability loss from PvP deaths.

Hotfix notes: Players will no longer receive a durability penalty for PvP deaths. If you get killed by another player, you will not take durability damage on resurrection.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Viin on November 09, 2004, 03:30:28 PM
Quote from: Jamiko
Quote from: sidereal
As far as I understand it, the point of a death mechanic is to a) prevent zergrushing everything with no fear of consequences and b) disallow churning armies in pvp.


b) makes no sense as they have already have removed the durability loss from PvP deaths.

Hotfix notes: Players will no longer receive a durability penalty for PvP deaths. If you get killed by another player, you will not take durability damage on resurrection.


Thats what I said... but apparently that is just for normal run-to-corpse-and-auto-rez deaths. If you rez with the spirit healer you would still get the 100% durability loss.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Kageru on November 09, 2004, 05:43:53 PM
Some very strange things in that patch. Smells a bit like panic. The death penalty seems excessive to me. That's < 10 deaths in an instance and you've got to leave on account of suddently being naked? On the other hand at least it affects everyone. The addition of heavy component costs on the buffing classes, who will be expected to pay that fee on behalf of the recipient, seems worse because it hits only certain classes for regular gameplay.

As I understand it the agro generated from all warrior actions increased. So the idea is the warrior generates substantial agro and can do occasional `saves' when he loses agro. So it's partly a fix for the `mash taunt' syndrome and partly to make it harder for the warrior to hold agro on large pulls. No idea how its working in game of course.

And my suspicion the paladin was a supportive caster in plate, rather than a main tank, seems to have been supported in the revamp.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 09, 2004, 06:10:37 PM
Quote from: Kageru
The addition of heavy component costs on the buffing classes, who will be expected to pay that fee on behalf of the recipient, seems worse because it hits only certain classes for regular gameplay.



Actually, I was thinking about it today while playing on my paladin.  My bud has a mage and he had easily twice the cash I had at L12 because of not needed to buy any equipment whatsoever (I had bought a pretty bitching two handed axe).  Maybe the theory is to match the money use on casters with those of the melee classes?

Quote from: Kageru
And my suspicion the paladin was a supportive caster in plate, rather than a main tank, seems to have been supported in the revamp.


I've been playing the paladin.  The role has been completely changed from what it was.  I actually like the way it is now.  But not having any expections over what the play should be like might effect that in some way.  It seems they are melee with support casting.  Most of their direct melee skills seem to be stun styles.  And most of their casting is buffage.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Kageru on November 09, 2004, 08:09:54 PM
I would imagine so. Perhaps to balance repair costs which hit melee hardest? Although having to keep stacks full of components, and the current costs, sound a little punitive. Then again if there isn't gear for casters to spend money on that's another problem that needs addressing.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Fargull on November 09, 2004, 09:29:48 PM
Don't know if this was part of the new patch or not, but I died twice and only equiped items lost durability, nothing in the backpack did...


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Resvrgam on November 09, 2004, 11:10:16 PM
Quote from: Fargull
Don't know if this was part of the new patch or not, but I died twice and only equiped items lost durability, nothing in the backpack did...


There's a newer patch than the one that was instated just a few days ago already?  If that's correct: good news.  The act of having all that unequipped gear in my ruck-sack decay to 0 was downright punishing.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 09, 2004, 11:49:34 PM
To clarify:


When you die you appear in ghost form at the nearest graveyard.

All your EQUIPPED items lose 10% durability which is not a big deal.  You then have to option to run back to your corpse in ghost form in order to ressurect yourself.  You will ressurect near your corpse in an area of your choosing.

You have the option while at the graveyard to instead just ressurect there via the Spirit Healer.  The penalty used to be about 10% of your exp to next level to use this method.  In order to increase potential money sinks, Blizzard changed this penalty to instead make all your items (equipped and in bags) reduce to 0% durability - essentially making all these items unusable and unsellable.

Hope that cleared it up a bit.

Edit for Dren:  When you get ressurected by a player, you still receive the 10% degradation to your equipped items.  Currently you also receive I believe 5 mins (maybe 2 mins) of ressurection sickness which effects your stats.  You also take a ressurection sickness when using the Spirit Healer.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Fargull on November 10, 2004, 07:08:31 AM
Ahh Ha.  Wow, that is harsh.  Course, the corpse runs took all of like a minute... but I can see deep in a dungeon that would be severe.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Dren on November 10, 2004, 07:40:47 AM
Question:

What if you get ressed by a player at the town you went to as a ghost?  Any degradation?  Do you get your stuff back or still have to go retrieve your body?

Heck if it is just 10% degrade and you get your stuff back, I can see town ressers being a huge income for those that can do it.  It will be like the days of SB for summoners at the safeholds. 50 characters just sitting around waiting for a /tell.  Now it will just be 50 healer types standing around the graveyards, lol.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Viin on November 10, 2004, 07:51:15 AM
You actually have to be at the corpse to rez someone, so, while your idea is cool, the healer has to run around and find the body first. Also, once you click the button that makes you a spirit I don't think you can be rezzed at your corpse anymore.. at that point you have to either walk to your corpse or use a spirit healer. (Disclaimer: I haven't died yet since starting the open beta, so this might be different).

It would be cool if they did a 'corpse pull' spell that allowed healers in town to pull a corpse and rez the ghost.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 10, 2004, 08:22:03 AM
Strangely, you can retrieve your corpse from a mine by standing on top of the place you died, without having to enter it.  I'm pretty sure this must be a bug but it's ripe for exploitation.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 10, 2004, 09:09:53 AM
Played last night, and died A LOT. Part of it was my own bull-headedness, but I R not uber.

One time, just once, I did the spirit healer thing, just to see what it was like.

FUCKING RETARDED.

Let's be clear. I have NO problem, ZERO PROBLEM, with taking durability loss on items I have equipped. None. That is a good system. However, the spirit healer's 100% durability on items you have NEVER equipped is just stupidily punitive. I ended up with not enough money to repair everything I had, because I had stuff that had dropped from mobs I'd killed just sitting in my bags, and I couldn't even sell it because it was damaged to 0. How does this make sense? How is this fun? Sure, I can repair that item, THEN sell it. But even with that, I still couldn't even repair all my equipped stuff.

If they do not remove this penalty from the non-equipped items, no one will ever use it except in dire emergencies. Which means it might as well not be there. I'd have preferred exp. loss to this kind of damage. Again, if it was just equipped items, I have no issues with it whatsoever. As it is now, it's fucking stupid.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 10, 2004, 09:41:59 AM
I absolutely agree.  I can't even find the sense in non-equipped items taking any sort of damage.  People are now complaining that their items in the AH and bank are also being affected.  I don't know if that's accurate but, if it is, it BETTER be a bug.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Soukyan on November 10, 2004, 10:32:03 AM
Quote from: Signe
I absolutely agree.  I can't even find the sense in non-equipped items taking any sort of damage.  People are now complaining that their items in the AH and bank are also being affected.  I don't know if that's accurate but, if it is, it BETTER be a bug.


Ahahahahaha!

I have a question. Is this supposed to simulate death by combat ruining your armor and thus add more realism? If so, ever notice how battlefields would be pillaged for usable armor and weaponry? Yeah... 100% decay. I don't fucking think so. It's too bad no large numbers of people would back me on a boycott of the game.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 10, 2004, 10:45:55 AM
Quote from: Signe
Strangely, you can retrieve your corpse from a mine by standing on top of the place you died, without having to enter it.  I'm pretty sure this must be a bug but it's ripe for exploitation.


It's a bug.  You couldn't do this before the current patch.  I tried, believe me I tried, but it always made you go inside.  Strange that this works now.  I would suggest /bug.

Quote from: Viin
Also, once you click the button that makes you a spirit I don't think you can be rezzed at your corpse anymore.. at that point you have to either walk to your corpse or use a spirit healer. (Disclaimer: I haven't died yet since starting the open beta, so this might be different).


Actually, you can still be ressurected up to the time you do it yourself.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Signe on November 10, 2004, 11:21:38 AM
I haven't actually experienced it, only read about it.  Of course, most people are claiming it's working as intended... they're just sure of it!  Servers are down, I think, and I won't play today.  I would post it on the official boards, but their login server is also down and those boards are deathly slow, at best.  I would bug it, if I could prove it was true.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 10, 2004, 12:06:25 PM
Quote from: MrHat
Quote from: Signe
Strangely, you can retrieve your corpse from a mine by standing on top of the place you died, without having to enter it.  I'm pretty sure this must be a bug but it's ripe for exploitation.


It's a bug.  You couldn't do this before the current patch.  I tried, believe me I tried, but it always made you go inside.  Strange that this works now.  I would suggest /bug.


You mean standing above ground but close to your body and rezzing there? You've been able to do this since I started playing (April.). My theory is that the rez distance is a sphere and not just a fat plane, so if you can get close enough above ground you can rez your body. Sometimes it's a pain to find the right spot but it can be better than rezzing deep in some mine or something.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Der Helm on November 10, 2004, 12:32:01 PM
*hands Haemish some valium*

While I do not like this death penality at all, I would say, this is one of the easier things to change, even in retail. No game stopper for me.

Strange enough, I am enjoing the game at the moment, might be because today way day 1 for me and the Oh.Shiny-fanboy is still strong in me. Nonetheless, I preorderd the US-Import today.

I know I am still able to cancel it, but hey, try to convince me of my mistake, worst case would be that you could make fun of me 2 months from now


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 10, 2004, 03:48:51 PM
One thing I ask everyone to remember is the rest system. It was implemented very harshly and people whined and bitched. Blizzard tamed it way down so now it is barely noticeable. I suspect this will go the same way.

If the devs are doing things as I suspect here is there pattern:

Implement new system. Go all out with it. Gradually scale it back to a workable level.

I think it's a smart way to do things. Most devs put in a wimpy system, then scale it up. By doing it this way it gives the impression that Blizzard is listening and adjusting things to fit the customer base.

Time will tell if my prediction is correct.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: El Gallo on November 10, 2004, 03:59:15 PM
I don't care about the basic idea of durability loss, I would just like to see some field repair kits available so you don't have to bail out on an instance.  Not that this matters now, since they have screwed the pooch on the aggro system and entirely flushed every second we spent testing and balancing instances down the toilet with this fucktarded new taunt shit.  That ability was the cornerstone of instance groups; every single encounter was balanced around it.  Then they decided to effectively remove that mechanic from the game with 2 weeks to go before release.

Good luck, motherbitches.  I don't know that even Smedley would be willing to do pull that shit.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 10, 2004, 04:03:37 PM
Quote from: El Gallo
I don't care about the basic idea of durability loss, I would just like to see some field repair kits available so you don't have to bail out on an instance.


I think I remember a dev mentioning that this might be implemented as a skill for engineers.  That way they have something they can sell just like leatherworkers and blacksmiths (armor kits and sharpening stones).


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 10, 2004, 04:11:22 PM
Yeah, the taunt thing makes zero sense. On the one hand it seems they're trying to encourage warrior diversity, OTOH it seems that every late game instance is designed for the stereotypical taunt warrior.

I have mixed feelings. I was super good at taunting and keeping almost every mob on me, OTOH it got real boring so I tended to do alot more soloing than instancing. If they rebalance instances so taunt is no longer the keystone, will warriors have a place in groups anymore?

It'll be interesting to see how this develops.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 10, 2004, 04:33:41 PM
Quote from: Riggswolfe
If they rebalance instances so taunt is no longer the keystone, will warriors have a place in groups anymore?



Instead of being the cornerstone, now they would just be another cog in the wheel.  Like every other class except for Mage and Priest.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Masuri on November 10, 2004, 04:47:38 PM
This new patch fucking blows.

I'm a level 27 mage, and I'll tell you, reagents chap my ass.  It now makes infinitely more economic sense for me to use the windriders/bats than to cast my own teleport spells.  What the fuck is that?  I'm all the way out in Gadgetzan (btw, coolest area ever), and my rogue buddy says he's gonna hop the Windrider and go back to Orgrimmar.  I check out the price to travel via Windrider from way-the-fuck-out-there in Gadgetzan, and it's 7 silver.  Hrm, 10 silver for me to teleport.  Nice.  Good thing I've got those spells...  Don't even get me started on slow fall's reagent.

Also, I had to use the spirit healer yesterday, when I got my dumb ass into a situation from which I could not CR.  I was in Stonetalon and, after 6 or 7 deaths, I realized I was going to have to take it in the ass.  I took the spirit healer route and was alive again, smack in the middle of Stonetalon.  All my shit was busted, and I had rez sickness, which reduces everything about you by 75%.  I didn't realize how fucked I was, at first, and started on down the path to go back to the barrens.  A level 16 Stormsnout attacked me and I nearly died.  What the fuck.  ONE level 16 mob nearly killed me because I was totally unable to defend myself.  Good fucking plan, Blizzard.  The 70 silver I had to pay to repair everything I fucking owned was an added bonus.

So far, this patch makes me say 'fuck' a lot.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: El Gallo on November 10, 2004, 05:25:49 PM
except that the wheel is now a roughly-hewn square made out of solidified shit.  With Blizzard's patch rate, this might be reformed into something remotely worthwhile in time to compete with EQIII.

Warriors, by the way, are more powerful than ever.  The most effective group right now is 3 warriors and 2 priests/shamans.  Each warrior can cc 2 mobs and nobody is allowed to do more damage than a warrior anyway.

Copying and pasting EQs aggro management system into a geme with no pulling or mass crowd control is an ass idea.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 11, 2004, 12:40:07 AM
Quote from: El Gallo
nobody is allowed to do more damage than a warrior anyway.

quote]

Except Mages, Warlocks, Rogues, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Hunters and Shamans.

Ok, you're right. Warriors outdamage Druids. Nerf them!


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Glazius on November 11, 2004, 05:15:30 AM
Quote from: Riggswolfe
Quote from: El Gallo
nobody is allowed to do more damage than a warrior anyway.


Except Mages, Warlocks, Rogues, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Hunters and Shamans.

Ok, you're right. Warriors outdamage Druids. Nerf them!

Read that as "nobody is allowed to do more damage than a warrior AND LIVE" and I think you'll get the point.

--GF


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: El Gallo on November 11, 2004, 07:23:42 AM
Quote from: Riggswolfe

Except Mages, Warlocks, Rogues, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Hunters and Shamans.
Ok, you're right. Warriors outdamage Druids. Nerf them!


If you do more damage than the warrior, you are the tank.  Assuming your warrior has maxed out his defiance talent, you can do 1.15 times the warrior's damage, but that assumes that the tank warrior does nothing but maximize her dps on a single target.

All those classes can do well over 1.15 times a defensive warrior's damage, but if they do so, they are the tank, and they die.  So they each have to fight with 1 arm tied behind their back.  Note that in EQ, this was a decent mechanic, riding the edge of aggro was the mark of a good damage dealer, but in EQ damage dealers could do an order of magnitude more damage than the tank and still avoid aggro.  An offensive warrior can also do 1.15 times the defensive warrior's damage, but when they tank they don't die.

A warrior can hold aggro over a healer petty reliably on 2 mobs right now.  To deal with 6 mob pulls, which are unavoidable, you bring 3 warriors.  CC classes don't help much, since mages and rogues can only cc 1 mob at a time, their cc is unreliable, and they have the defensive skills of a wet paper bag.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 11, 2004, 09:07:58 PM
This seems relevant:

Quote from: Ordinn (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=580951&P=1)

Hi all,

First of all we would like to thank everyone participating in the Open Beta. The development team has been able to gather valuable in-game data over the past few days. Based on this data and your feedback on the forums, we will be making a few changes in the next patch:

- Players will only receive a 25% durability loss instead of 100% when using a Spirit Healer to resurrect

- Players will now only incur a maximum 10 minutes of resurrection sickness instead of 30 minutes when using a Spirit Healer to resurrect

- Some key buff spells will have their reagent requirements removed

- Changes to Warrior’s Defensive Stance that will improve their ability to hold aggro

We are hoping to get the next patch out early next week.


EDIT: Guess they put it in high, and brought it back down to acceptable levels.  Think they covered everything people were complaining about, except the recent lag fest.

The spirit healer changes effectively make it the same penalty (at least to me) as it was before patch, trading an exp loss for a money one.  This allows them to add another moneysink w/out all the fuss.  The 30min res sickness was just absurd to begin with.

I still feel that they should keep the reagents, but make it optional.  If you played FFXI you know that food wasn't essential, but when you ate it, it definately increased your effectiveness.  Reagents should be the same way, ie. Power Word: Stamina, the priest stamina buff, gives you 10 stamina at L6 or whatever.  It lasts a half hour.  If you use a reagent, it lasts the play session or until you die.  Just an idea.

I wonder how they will implement the aggro system on defensive stance.  Will it just be an odor you put out while in defensive stance that makes mobs hate you, or will it add taunt effect to each of your hits?

I'm bored.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Riggswolfe on November 11, 2004, 09:11:57 PM
About the patch:

Excactly as I predicted.

 To El Gallo, I apologize, I suspect you were saying that people who do more damage with the current patch get aggro. I took it as a snide swipe at warriors. My bad. I know the pre-taunt nerf it didn't matter how much damage my group dished out I never lost aggro. I haven't played since the latest patch simply because I've had alot of other things to do.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Kageru on November 11, 2004, 10:14:58 PM
Quote from: MrHat

I wonder how they will implement the aggro system on defensive stance.  Will it just be an odor you put out while in defensive stance that makes mobs hate you, or will it add taunt effect to each of your hits?


That would be `increase' rather than add. I believe coupled with the reduction to taunt as an action they increased the agro generated by other actions. A pretty reasonable response to the warriors complaining they spent all their time mashing taunt and their ability to lock down more mobs than the designers wanted.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: ajax34i on November 12, 2004, 02:12:21 AM
I think what they did was rather dumb, to be honest.  No value whatsoever is gained from going so much overboard like they did.  Anyone could have told them that 100% decay is too much.  Are they that stupid that they didn't realize, after taking one look at the numbers, that 100% is too damn big a death penalty?  The only thing they did with that idiotic move was to alienate most of their beta testers.

You want to go overboard and then tone it back?  You're not sure what % decay is the "just right" value?  Implement something reasonable like 50% and THEN tone it back to 25% based on feedback.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Soukyan on November 12, 2004, 05:54:46 AM
Quote from: ajax34i
I think what they did was rather dumb, to be honest.  No value whatsoever is gained from going so much overboard like they did.  Anyone could have told them that 100% decay is too much.  Are they that stupid that they didn't realize, after taking one look at the numbers, that 100% is too damn big a death penalty?  The only thing they did with that idiotic move was to alienate most of their beta testers.

You want to go overboard and then tone it back?  You're not sure what % decay is the "just right" value?  Implement something reasonable like 50% and THEN tone it back to 25% based on feedback.


It wasn't dumb. They obviously wanted to keep the 100% penalty. The best way to do so is to put it in and see if the players would become complacent to it. Obviously the backlash was more severe than they expected so they had to make the change, but I'll bet if they had left it at 100%, in a couple weeks, the vast majority of players would have accepted it and all those who complained about it would have stuck around anyhow. Complacence. It's what drove the addicts in EQ to keep playing as well. Let's face it. In the MMOG genre, once you have the captive audience, you can fuck them over for years before they realize you haven't been using Vaseline.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: ajax34i on November 12, 2004, 07:49:07 AM
There was a thread on the WoW boards where a lot of their level 60 (and less) testers posted that the cost of repairing one death was more than they could possibly make in the dungeon/instance/etc.  If that's true, 100% is obviously too high and shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.

They reduced it to 25%, which is very different from the initial 100%.  That may be because of the severity of the backlash, but honestly if they felt strongly about 100% they would have reduced to 80%.

They will do things like this in retail.  I don't understand why one would choose the "go overboard and then scale back" system instead of the "figure out that 25% is probably the best value and implement that in the first place" system.  With the last few patches, they seem to have gained a lot of experience at going overboard, and not much experience at guesstimating the right numbers for any change they wish to make.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: HaemishM on November 12, 2004, 08:11:23 AM
25% is much more reasonable. I still cannot understand in what Bizarro-world they ever thought that 100% would be palatable. Sure, they could have left it in there; it just would mean no one would use it except in the most dire of circumstances. EQ-like corpse runs would have been the norm, without the need to avoid mobs while you're naked.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: Fargull on November 12, 2004, 08:20:15 AM
A few hours of playing and some observations.

Right now I can make money pretty effeciently.  I have only spent money on my skills and weapon, I am playing a rogue.  I took skinning and leather working to make my own armor, so that might be part of the equation, though not much.  From what I can tell (pre-20) it seems that armor does not impact as much as I had thought it would, however weapon quality and damage potential certainly does.

Grouping seems weird, but I really like the roll the dice to win the loot option.  Quests seem scaled well.  Have not had an issue with the Quest Camper syndrome from previous games.  Right now the server side lag seems to be the biggest pain after you stab your eyes out with the download / patcher.  From what little (as in no) knowledge I have A MMOG server engine, it would appear localized to the areas of largest PC concentration (go figure).  I had a human paladin that was experiencing huge lag and then hopped on with a tauren hunter and the lag was gone.  Same server (non PvP obviously), so I am guessing the cities/zones are on different servers with in the world cluster?

Overall I like the pace of combat and the world construction, will have to see how the upper levels begin to pan out before making a final statement.


Title: WoW Patch...
Post by: MrHat on November 12, 2004, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Fargull
From what little (as in no) knowledge I have A MMOG server engine, it would appear localized to the areas of largest PC concentration (go figure).  I had a human paladin that was experiencing huge lag and then hopped on with a tauren hunter and the lag was gone.  Same server (non PvP obviously), so I am guessing the cities/zones are on different servers with in the world cluster?


The 2 continents are different servers.