f13.net

So I read on the warhammeralliance forum that the fact that you have to scroll to the bottom of the EULA, click I agree, then click OK, and then do the same thing for the Code of Conduct, every single time you load the game, is not a bug.  Like, that's actually the way they intend it to be for the lifetime of the game.

Seriously guys?  Like... seriously?  I mean... really?

Cuz, uh, good god.

This had better be a bug.

I had figured it was something they'd decided had to be done for the beta, and hadn't shut it off yet since the game wasn't technically released yet.  If that's not the case....they need to get a clue. 

In DAoC, Mythic had you do it with each patch... which while bad, isn't AS bad.  I'm hoping they adopt this at the very least.  

at least you cant say you didn't see it.

Yeah, doing it with every patch is pretty standard.  I've never seen an MMO make you doing it every time.  That Magnus dude posted on the warhammer alliance forums saying it wasn't a bug.  I'm hoping to god he's just misinformed.

If you actually did what they intend you to do, that is, read the damn thing through and through, and then do that AGAIN, and then compare and contrast that with the text you read the last time to adjust your expectations and behaviour, how much of your daily playtime would that take?

How can EULAs be enforceable, again?

As you get older you learn things.  One of my favorites is that humans enjoy making rules.  They often enjoy it so much, that they fail to consider whether the rules are enforceable or not.  This is particularly true in academic circles.

Legal (http://www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd) precedent (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/14/2313247&from=rss)

Given Mythic's intense paranoia over NDA leaks and such, I would say no.

Yeah, seems like Mythic business as usual to me. They're like the Dick Cheney of MMO companies that way.

Day one and I hate this. It's not a game breaker or anything but fuck it's annoying.

Incredibly annoying and completely over the top, I despise it.  WoW seems to be winning their court cases and only bother us once per patch so why make me a tiny bit angry everytime I login?

Its the sort of thing that later on, if I'm not playing the game much and log in after a couple of weeks would make me go 'oh right, this shit again' and debate if its worth keeping the sub.

Call it doomcasting or anti-fanboyism or whatever you want but I have to say once more it's mythics "the customer is the enemy" philosophy that is going to hurt them in the long run. I mean seriously, having to go through hoops every time you load the game? it's the opposite of user friendly.  But it's not just this one thing, plenty of other decisions lead me to believe that "fun for the customer" is not first and foremost on their minds. to me warhammer has a very much "you're in our world now" mentality and while their world may be nice it's theirs, NOT yours and you're going to be constantly reminded of this fact through systems, customer service and game mechanics.

I hope this is changed pretty fucking quickly. If they want to compete with Blizzard (!)  :awesome_for_real: and not be totally annihilated by WotLK they will need to get thine shite together.

This annoys the piss out of me. But it's just not that important.

Seriously... it takes like 3 seconds.  lol

*lurker mode deactivate*

I seem to recall that the DAoC one was easier because the scroll box/window was smaller and after the first time of scrolling through, future launches of the game just had you check the box and away you go, no scrolling required.  The WAR one is just silly.  WoW just has you read it once every patch and you're good to go.

But anyways, the game still works, so... :why_so_serious:

*clicks a button on his wristband and goes back to lurking*

Just one more thing that makes me glad I'm not playing yet.

In 6 months, if there are some people still playing, I'll join up.

Yeah, it's not the end of the world or anything, but it is blatantly annoying.  WoW loads up near-instantaneously right to a login screen, which then takes you directly to character select.  WAR has three splash screens, then a loading screen, and then two agreements you have to sign by scrolling to the end, clicking a checkbox, then clicking an accept button, all while the game hitches as it loads the startup screen in the background.  Obviously it isn't a game-killer, but fucking hell does it hurt the user experience.  It's just especially weird because they obviously went through the trouble of getting the game to immediately present you with your last-played character with a big "PLAY" button next to it, which is certainly a good step toward getting into the game quickly, and then they go and blatantly fuck that goal up with three splash screens and two agreements.

When I sit down at my desk my computer doesn't automatically turn on.  What the fuck is this piss?  The god damn computer should sense my weight and turn on for me.  Fuck you Dell.  Assholes.

Good luck doing PQ's with almost noone in the newbie areas. 

This is the biggest problem I see with the future of the game.  If the endgame is compelling, people will be concentrated there (just as in WoW) leaving the lower tiered areas a ghost town.  This will limit the gaming experience for the new player and make them dependant on a reasonable population for their fun.  As a result, completing PQ's, PvP scenarios, and open RvR will become less viable as leveling options. 

Just like WOW amirite?  All MMOs suffer for that.  What's the big deal?

Some suffer more than others.  WoW has the advantage of having their treadmill based on a high-quality PvE experience.  WAR, not so much. 

Yeah in six months you won't be able to do PQ's and will have to wait forever to queue up for scenarios in the lower tiers, it will be brutal.  Most of the best gear seems to come from renown and in six months it will be really hard to get since there will be so few people to fight with.  No PQs and no renown means crappy gear which will make your PvE levelling slower.

Your only chance would be a large guild where you can get an alt group together.

You mentioned previously that you have not experienced the end game, so how can you qualify that statement?  My opinion is that PQs and early Scenarios will be just as empty as early bracket WOW BGs (mostly) and instances.

WOW BGs only so much due to twinking.  We'll see if Mythic puts in a non-exp gaining switch.

I've never seen a unicorn, but I can imagine what one looks like.  Sometimes a hypothesis proves correct.  Let's see in 6 months, shall we?

I actually found soloing the first (and sometimes second) parts of PQs to be about as fast as doing in a group. I soloed to 25 in beta in a week, I don't think it's going to be MUCH worse in release.

Speaking as someone who's 6 hours behind the curve due to a power outage, you don't even  have to wait 6 months to see them empty.  The upper T1 PQs on Empire are already abanoned as everyone's passed me up due to greater time to play.  I'm stuck doing solo questing and hoping for a scenario to pop as I try to catch up. It sucks donkey balls as I'd much rather PVP or at least do the 'group' PvE so I can get influence.  

The saving grace is that I'm already at PVP R8 after the BC runs two days ago so I've got some of that great PVP gear.

DON'T WORRY, LOW LEVEL RVR HELPS OUT THE WAR EFFORT!  :why_so_serious:

Edit: Plus it's not even release yet is it? Still preorder/CE stuff, correct?

What ever floats your boat but your hypothesis is flawed and possibly biased.

"I think you are biased," said the guy who runs the Warhammer blog.

Good times.

There's no comparison to levelling in wow(even at release) to levelling in WAR. Wow you can go 1-60 easily without having to worry much about gear and still enjoy about 70% of the game solo(no dungeons) and pvp is not necessary in any way.

In WAR pq's replace dungeons for the most part while levelling, require groups past the first chapter and are pretty much the only way to get decent gear. Battlegrounds and RVR  in WAR are very necessary to stay on top of the pvp gear curve and also an alternative to levelling should you get bored.  

Without 'people' all you can do in warhammer is grind quests and mobs which is by far it's weakest point and even when you do get to level 40 you will be heavily undergeared and have to grind 40 realm ranks if you weren't able to get into any pvp

 :awesome_for_real:

Chapter 3/4/5 PQs are actually probably empty for a different reason. If you grab a full set of the first warcamp renown gear (not the militia stuff, but the 'defenders' or whatever it is), you have zero reason to want the influence rewards in chapter 3 or 4. They're worse or at best the same as the renown gear. So people just move on, rather than stay in those to get their rewards.

Mark posted a message on the war herald that they're removing the requirement for accepting the code of conduct every single time you log in, but are keeping the EULA.  That's an improvement, but still ridiculous.  What particularly ticks me off is how he again says that it is necessary "for legal reasons," when clearly it is not necessary since nobody else does it.  They just WANT to do it for legal reasons.  It isn't necessary.  They have weighed the tradeoff between usability and legal protection, and decided against usability.  Whether it's the right or wrong choice, at least man up to the fact that you've made that choice intentionally.  You weren't forced, and every other company has decided otherwise.

First, I'm no lawyer, but; I'm not sure how they're going to enforce any changes that happens to the EULA. Trying to sue over some changes in an EULA that happens after several hundred displays of the same EULA must fail based on some kind of absurdity clause. That way it only makes sense to show it the first time and when it has changed.

"He violated the EULA that he had accepted."
"Because he didn't read it the thousandth time you shoved it in his face?"

Then just make the EULA pop up every time it changes and then only once....problem solved.

If you're going to put forth an opinion on WAR's engame with only experience at level 35, then you have to do the same from the perspective of WOW's endgame from level 55 (or 65).  If you put the play experience of each game and project that experience to the end game you will or should get the same type of opinion, or view.  Both being limited.

I've been a critic of WAR for a long time.  You can see many of my criticisms on other message boards over the last year and a half, however I've seen the game improve and I know what's waiting for me after I go through the levels and I think it's a quality game. 

Good times.

1) You only need a few minutes to decide if a game is fun or not.  It's personal.

2) By level 35, someone has invested MANY hours into the game and has a good working knowledge of the game mechanics.  You also know very well what abilities are out there as you've been able to spec in and out of all three talent trees.  I'd say that you have more than enough data at 35 to theory craft.  It's a HYPOTHESIS.  It is a guess based on an ADMITTEDLY LIMITED NUMBER of data points.

I don't think the comparison of WoW to WAR is apt.  I started to list the reasons, but I'm sure you're aware.  It's why I prefer WAR to WoW. 



NOTE: What people keep missing is that I like WAR.  I enjoy playing it.  It just seems painfully obvious that there exist many mechanics issues ripe for producing problems down the road. 

I thought you were discussing content and not mechanics. 

My fault.

We can't discuss content, because it's still covered by the NDA.

And I still am left wondering why.

No wait, never mind, wotlk release date was announced, I don't care anymore! :)

Don't be a moron. If the game is compelling, people will go through it. But if you're trying to compete with the big dog, anything that needlessly pisses off your playerbase and doesn't actually achieve anything is a Bad Thing(tm).

It's a fundamental of good web design, to not have things buried more than 2 clicks deep

I'm more for mocking nerd rage over something silly than trying to make a point out of it.  Of course it's stupid.  Of course three splash screen before the login is stupid.  But I'm not going to make a giant issue about it and start frothing.

Yeah, but you are biased.

So are you, but you're just biased towards negativity in the face of Anything.

Of course I'm biased.  I also wasn't the one who ran around pointing the biased finger first, all the while talking about how WAR is the BEST GAME EVAR! with a link to my Warhammer blog in my sig.

At least I know I'm biased, that's a lot more than can be said for most around here.

I don't understand, are you attempting to insult me or mock me? 

Trust me, I'm quite aware that you don't understand.

Cevik, is life hard?

Let's talk about our feelings.

My life is incredibly easy, I'm always very well fed.

Obviously.

So how's the all Zealot guild going?

That's pretty disingenuous.

See, I'm taking it not as the end of the world, but as affirmation that I should start playing it in 6 months or so, when all this silly shit has been patched out in favor of commonsense if they want to compete against WoW. I've decided to give my money to Blizzard until about Feb at least to give Mythic a chance to apply a few magic patches to the game. I'm not worried about the f13 guild, they'll have all lost interest by the time WotLK comes out, anyway.

I've got 2 of my 3 pre-ordered CEs in the room with me. Fuck they are heavy, and impressive looking. Not gonna crack the shrinkwrap till I'm ready to play, though.

I think you may be surprised.

The whole login thing isn't something that would prevent me from playing.  But to each his own.

Yes, but you are biased.

Isn't it a little early in the work week for you to come out from under your bridge? Go hang out in politics.

Whatevs. It sounds like the legal team at EA/Mythic is hedging their bets about the viability of clickthrough licenses. Sounds like a smart move, even oif it's annoying for users. Let's face it -- people will totally accept being shit upon as long as the game past the shit is fun.