f13.net

Since the main thread is getting a bit too long I felt this was more useful as a sperate thread. What I like about this overview is that it is brief and to the point about the classes.

General Class Overview

Ok guys, heres a general class overview of what i've played. I've gotten just about every class between 10-20, in WAR you get the bulk of your abilities before 10 and after that you begin learning tactics, morale abilities and other class perks.

The other thing you need to know is that pretty much every class has a mirror on the opposite faction. When I say mirror they have the same unique mechanic (i'll explain these a little later) and their skills are very similar. I'll explain these classes together.

Ironbreaker: A pretty unique take on a very traditional concept. Ironbreakers are tanks, but in PvP they double as a support class. They work on "grudge", in that everytime you are attacked you gain 5 points of "grudge" out of 100. Some abilities consume grudge, others get stronger the more grudge the Ironbreaker has. What really makes them interesting however is the ability to pledge an "oath" to another player in your group. Whenever that player is attacked you'll get 10 grudge, and a lot of your abiltiies will buff them as well, always with some sort of decreased defence.

In terms of actual playstyle you'll oath a healer and the two of you will run around owning face. He gains defensive buffs and a personal bodyguard, you gain permahealing making an already unkillable class unstoppable. If you like being independant this isn't the class for you, and if theres no healer in your party (which happens in scenarios quite a bit) you are in for an uphill battle.

This is by and large the hardest class to kill.

Chosen: A very strong class at the moment, Chosen are melee tanks with offensive auras. They generally drain enemy stats in an area, and a lot of their attacks have debuffs. They are really the "anti" Ironbreaker in that instead of helping a single ally they screw over an entire enemy team. Like the Ironbreaker they are very hard to kill, but pose more of an immediate threat.

Runepriest/Zealot: These guys are the purest support classes in the game. Damage output is terrible, though their healing is top notch. Their unique mechanic is the ability to give party members buffs, which apart from stat bonus's give them an extra ability: for example, an AoE attack. If you like healing this is the class for you, they top the healing scoreboards consistantly.

Engineer/Magus: These are both ranged attack classes with the ability to summon a stationary platform which attacks. Engineers build turrents, the Magus summon demons. These are defensive ranged classes that suit a conservative playstyle. You won't top the scoreboards in damage, but you are versatile and pretty stress free compared to a lot of other classes.

Witch Hunter/Witch Elf: These are your "rogue" type classes, though in War stealth isn't as huge as it is in other MMO's. Both these classes build points for finishers, out of 5, pretty much identical to the WoW Rogue system. Don't expect to be able to stunlock people however, crowd control is very minimal in War. These guys do enormous amounts of damage, and Witch Hunters have the best asthetic in the game. Unlike WoW these guys aren't even close to being overplayed. A no nonsense melee damage class.

Bright Wizard/Sorceress: Want to deal so much damage you can actually blow yourself up? This is the class for you. These guys deal INSANE amounts of damage, and I mean absolutely insane. They have the best AoE in the game and with every attack they build up points /100. The more points, the more damage they deal, but at the same time they can damage themselves. At 100 you will be throwing nuclear weapons around, but killing yourself is VERY easy to do. Much less conservative than the engineer/magus but with more damage.

You'll be a high priority to the enemy and you'll die ALOT.

Warrior Priest/Disciple of Khaine: These guys are melee battle mages. Most of your abilities are focused on melee damage, and you have some support buffs/heals as well. Your heals are dots, however, so you can't spam people into life like the other healing classes. The weakest of the 6 healers, they also have strong armor and good DPS abilities. In 1v1 they are unbeatable, and in groups they are a generalist class with no real focus.

Their unique mechanic is that using melee skills builds points out of 250, and healing skills drains those points. Hence you have to attack to heal. Unlike Paladins in WoW playing a Warrior Priest is not about buffing yourself passively. You have one general buff your your party and the rest of your skills are HoTs and damage skills, so don't expect to be running around autoattacking.

Swordmaster/Black Orc: Melee tanks with a strong offensive focus. Their unique mechanic is that by using skills in specific orders they unlock certain abilities. For the Swordmaster its "balance", using some skills to get into better balance, from there others to send them into perfect balance. The same system applied for the Black Orc but with "da gud plan". Because of this you can't just spam random abilities, you have to work your way into the stronger abilities and be a little clever about it. They are very hard to kill, and work well by themselves.

Squig Herder/White Lion: These are the games pet classes, White Lions being melee and Squig Herders being ranged. Squig Herders have 3 "squigs" to choose from, each with a different focus (tank, melee dps, ranged dps) that give the herder buffs. White lions get a single lion, though they both play as you would expect. Its all about micromanaging your pets and dealing damage. They are very independant and are very strong in PvE.

Shadow Warrior/Marauder: These are your "adapt to the situation" classes. The Shadow Warrior is ranged, the Marauder is melee. Both of these classes have the ability to manipulate themselves to deal with different situations. Shadow Warriors have different stances depending on what range you are attacking from, switching between them unlocks different abilities.

Marauders have this fucking hardcore ability to mutate their arm into different weapons. A giant arm for DoTs, a giant bone blade for instant damage, and a giant club for AoE attacks. If you like the idea of being able to indentify and adapt to different situations, these are the classes for you.

Goblin Shaman/Archmage: These are your ranged dps/healer classes, with a very involved mechanic. By using damaging abilities, you build points on one side of a two sided icon (for the Archmage its a ying yang, for the Goblin Shaman its two wooden tablets). After 5 damaging abilities you'll be able to unleash a very powerful healing attack, and vice versa. Its all about switching between damage and healing at the right time to keep a good momentum going.

They can do about as much damage as the melee support classes (warrior priest/disciple of khaine), but they have better healing and worse defences.

General PvP Notes:

- You can have both an offensive and defensive target, at the same time. For example, if I click on an enemy, hes my offensive target, and all my damaging spells go to him. If I click on a friendly, all my healing goes to him. This can get confusing and can mean you'll be healing someone instead of yourself. Press F1 to reset the defensive target to yourself.

- Watch for abilities that buff your "defensive target". This can either be you, or someone else. Warrior Priests/Disciples of Khaine have many melee attacks that buff a defensive target, and this doesn't always have to be you

- Every class uses "AP" or action points. Theres no mana/energy/whatever in the game, though some classes have unique resources

- Chosen and Shamans are very popular. Shamans in particular are very strong and give destruction a guarenteed source of healing in most circumstances

- Order Tanks are unplayed: want groups? Play an Ironbreaker

- Destruction outnumber Order about 3:2

- Classes in general are very hard to kill, tank classes are practically unkillable for any one person. "One shotting" never happens

- There isn't a huge amount of AoE in the game, and whats there isn't all that powerful

- Many buffs don't stack, so having mutiples in your team is a waste of resources

- Movement speed is generally quite slow, the ability to "run" costs you all your action points leaving you unable to do anything

- When your HP is low your movement slows to a crawl

- Crowd control is scarce

- Disciple of Khaine / Warrior Priest are probably overpowered at the moment. They can do lots of damage and dish out a lot of healing, which means they earn a shitload of experience/renown points

- Doing PvP earns you renown. Renown unlocks buffs and entire sets of gear

- Doing scenarios is the fastest way to level

Very good writeup.

Didn't play the beta for quite some time now b/c I hated the low population on most test servers but it's about inline with what I saw/expected.

“Engineer/Magus: These are both ranged attack classes with the ability to summon a stationary platform which attacks. Engineers build turrents, the Magus summon demons. These are defensive ranged classes that suit a conservative playstyle. You won't top the scoreboards in damage, but you are versatile and pretty stress free compared to a lot of other classes.”

Mechanic wise engineer is a pretty cool class to play, if you loved the idea of engineering as a profession in WoW but felt Meh about its actual implementation check this class out, sniping, grenades, flamethrower turrets, you get some cool toys.  I agree with his description for the most part.   Magus – you ride around on a glowing floating space Frisbee.  You can do some very nice dps.  But your space Frisbee is about the biggest bullseye target screaming “come kill me” I have ever seen.  Witchhunters will devour you alive.  I like the class, I enjoyed playing it.  I did not enjoy being the first target for Order melee dps (after healers).

“Witch Hunter/Witch Elf: These are your "rogue" type classes, though in War stealth isn't as huge as it is in other MMO's. Both these classes build points for finishers, out of 5, pretty much identical to the WoW Rogue system. Don't expect to be able to stunlock people however, crowd control is very minimal in War. These guys do enormous amounts of damage, and Witch Hunters have the best asthetic in the game. Unlike WoW these guys aren't even close to being overplayed. A no nonsense melee damage class.”

You have CC but it is limited, to snares or a brief stun on a 20 sec timer.  The limitations on stealth (lasts 60 seconds, can be seen, 60 second cooldown) I think are one of the main thing keeping the population down.  Both classes can dish out nice dps but nothing like the Wtf pwnage of a geared WoW rogue raping a caster in seconds.  I enjoy playing this class a great deal (both, but mainly witch hunter), I also played a wow Rogue, and while the play style is very similar, you are much more fragile than a wow rogue given your limitations on stealth, no vanish etc.  In open field rvr if you want to pick off soft targets from the rear/flanks you really have to time your stealth carefully so you don’t end up unstealthing in the middle of the Destro field. Your bigger damage abilities are Dots, which I imagine was very intentional to tone down the kill time of soft targets.  1v1 this isn’t too much of an issue on soft targets, but in pvp/rvr gives time for them to receive a heal.  1v1 vs the meatier targets a lot of times I kill them with my dots about 8 seconds after they have killed me.

“Bright Wizard/Sorceress: Want to deal so much damage you can actually blow yourself up? This is the class for you. These guys deal INSANE amounts of damage, and I mean absolutely insane. They have the best AoE in the game and with every attack they build up points /100. The more points, the more damage they deal, but at the same time they can damage themselves. At 100 you will be throwing nuclear weapons around, but killing yourself is VERY easy to do. Much less conservative than the engineer/magus but with more damage.”

Think WoW Fire mages on Crack, and despite what he says about aoe damage, a few sorcs together can create a field of death with aoe.  One of the bigger issues I am seeing being that, so many people turn down the spell effects in large rvr for performance issues, and you have no visual clue that you are standing in an aoe inferno (think the undead kara dragon encounter if you have spell effects turned all the way down)

“You'll be a high priority to the enemy and you'll die ALOT.”

They have really improved the ability for these classes to put some range btwn them and melee (higher lvl),

“Warrior Priest/Disciple of Khaine: These guys are melee battle mages. Most of your abilities are focused on melee damage, and you have some support buffs/heals as well. Your heals are dots, however, so you can't spam people into life like the other healing classes. The weakest of the 6 healers, they also have strong armor and good DPS abilities. In 1v1 they are unbeatable, and in groups they are a generalist class with no real focus.

Their unique mechanic is that using melee skills builds points out of 250, and healing skills drains those points. Hence you have to attack to heal. Unlike Paladins in WoW playing a Warrior Priest is not about buffing yourself passively. You have one general buff your your party and the rest of your skills are HoTs and damage skills, so don't expect to be running around autoattacking.”

I dig the warrior priest, you are a frontline healer and can stay in the thick of things while keeping a group HoT going.  Though not really the same it makes me think of what it would be like to play a druid that could heal while in bear form.

“Swordmaster/Black Orc: Melee tanks with a strong offensive focus. Their unique mechanic is that by using skills in specific orders they unlock certain abilities. For the Swordmaster its "balance", using some skills to get into better balance, from there others to send them into perfect balance. The same system applied for the Black Orc but with "da gud plan". Because of this you can't just spam random abilities, you have to work your way into the stronger abilities and be a little clever about it. They are very hard to kill, and work well by themselves.”

Black Orcs are !$!$%! Monsters.  Given conflict detection a couple massive orcs standing side by side can lock down a ramp and lay some serious smackdown.  Here is my whine for the day (I prefer goat cheese fyi)  they are overpowered imo.

“Squig Herder/White Lion: These are the games pet classes, White Lions being melee and Squig Herders being ranged. Squig Herders have 3 "squigs" to choose from, each with a different focus (tank, melee dps, ranged dps) that give the herder buffs. White lions get a single lion, though they both play as you would expect. Its all about micromanaging your pets and dealing damage. They are very independant and are very strong in PvE.”

Haven’t played white lion.  Squig herder is the funnest class I have played.  Played it from 1 to early twenties a few time, and then in templated higher lvls.  A great class for the solo adventurer.  Great in Pve, great soloing capability taking on multiple targets…  you get raped in pvp which is what stopped me playing this class.  Squig herders along with a Magus are freebee kills for me when I am playing my witch hunter.  Squigees are a class I will keep watching, if they are brought up to par in pvp I will be definitely be playing one.

“Shadow Warrior/Marauder: These are your "adapt to the situation" classes. The Shadow Warrior is ranged, the Marauder is melee. Both of these classes have the ability to manipulate themselves to deal with different situations. Shadow Warriors have different stances depending on what range you are attacking from, switching between them unlocks different abilities.

Marauders have this fucking hardcore ability to mutate their arm into different weapons. A giant arm for DoTs, a giant bone blade for instant damage, and a giant club for AoE attacks. If you like the idea of being able to indentify and adapt to different situations, these are the classes for you.”

Haven’t played shadow warrior.  Gone up against many marauders, played them template a few times.  Think Feral druid, except instead of a healing form you get another damage form.  Lots of anti caster abilities.  It is a class I plan on spending some time playing while beta is still around.  To me it looks like a really solid dps class.  With some very very nasty pvp abilities.

Goblin Shaman/Archmage: These are your ranged dps/healer classes, with a very involved mechanic. By using damaging abilities, you build points on one side of a two sided icon (for the Archmage its a ying yang, for the Goblin Shaman its two wooden tablets). After 5 damaging abilities you'll be able to unleash a very powerful healing attack, and vice versa. Its all about switching between damage and healing at the right time to keep a good momentum going.

They can do about as much damage as the melee support classes (warrior priest/disciple of khaine), but they have better healing and worse defences.”

Haven’t played archmage, Shaman are great great classes.  And seem to be the deciding factor in some scenerios.  Pretty popular class.

General PvP Notes:


“- There isn't a huge amount of AoE in the game, and whats there isn't all that powerful”

HMmmm compared to daoc ok maybe, but there is enough aoe that there will be certainly be zones of death you will need to stay clear of.

“- Crowd control is scarce”

 I think every class has some form of CC, some it is even Aoe, but every class also has a “remove all movement impairing abilities button”, and the CC doesn’t last long at all.

“- Doing PvP earns you renown. Renown unlocks buffs and entire sets of gear”

Renown gear is renown rank dependent and level dependent, though I think it would be rare that you get ahead on realm ranks and don’t have the raw lvls needed.  But if you grind to 40 in pve you will not be able to buy your lvl 40 pvp gear. 

“- Doing scenarios is the fastest way to level “
If you could do nonstop back to back scenarios, maybe.  A guild farm team doing endless scenarios would rake in some sweet xp, but they wouldn’t be upgrading their gear at the same rate people doing PQs would be.  Correct me if I am wrong other testers but it seems like PQs provide lots of incremental upgrades, while there is a big gap between pvp sets.  So yeah you could nonstop pvp but there would be a sizable period of lvls where you are undergeared until you reach the next threshold for an upgrade.  Also  $$$$ it is is 30g for your mount which is unlocked at lvl 20 or 21 (forget) scenarios will not get you that money.  And you really really want that mount. Protip: take the scavenging skill and scavange every thing you kill, basically doubling over time the amount of money you are taking in from killing mobs.

I haven’t done the theorycraft but my take on the scenarios to lvl is this:  in beta you have ques, sometimes not that long, but ques nonetheless.  If you have 30 seconds btwn scenarios I can see the guys statement being true.  And maybe at release if you are queing for the popular scenarios that might be true.  But PQs are a guaranteed way to make $$, XP, and upgrade equipment, see the world, see some story arcs.

I think a mix of both is the way I would do it, have a group doing a pq and then que together for a scenario, so do a few pqs, take a break with a scenario, then some more pqs, rinse and repeat.  Maybe not the ultimate spreadsheet warrior fastest way possible.. but is Fun.

Hm, I was thinking of playing an Ironbreaker, now I just need to convince Ingmar he would love to be my heal bitch. I mean Oathbuddy.

Half the RunePriest's spell effects involve lightning animations.

You can thank me later. <3

Haha, I  :heart: you.

Magus is horrible.  It's a glass squirt gun.  To call it dps is a joke.  Shaman/Archmage do more damage.  Magus is one class you have to worry about losing one on one fights in pve.  Its only redeeming quality is as debuff support!  The disc looks cool, but has no relevance to the class.  The reason players attack Magus first is because they know its an easy kill!

hmm I haven't played magus past the mid teens, but it seemed to do ok there as a single target focus fire ranged dps.  My drunken fumbling with a 31 templated character don't count in my book as that *testing* session ended with me passed out on a floor.

Don't quote like that again or I will shoot you.

Thats not gonna happen at launch.  Pretty elves + good side = at least a 2 to 1 population advantage, if not more.

Yeah but Destruction has naked elves.

Most popular tabletop army + LOLDROW DRIZZT + the hilarity of the Greenskins vs. bland on the surface (not when you dig but people don't dig) good guys? No contest.

Sorry but this is nuts, being the good guys and playing legolas trumps all of that by a large margin.

The problem with warrior priest (got it to 22) is that every melee char focuses on you first. Almost every RVR and scenario fight, I would last maybe 2 seconds in combat. Everyone knows you are a healer, and you pretty much have to be in melee to heal effectively.

To get back on topic: i played a DoK to level 12 and felt massively overpowered.  I could tank almost as well as tank classes, dps as well as dps classes and heal on top of that.  It was rare on any scenario that i did not come close to topping both damage and healing meters at the same time, and if i lost it was to other DoKs.  I don't know if things change at higher levels but this is definitely the class im playing at launch.

My Black Orc that hit 15 before the wipe plays almost identically to the Elf Swordmaster.  I'm not entirely sure, but I think they're counter classes.  The skills set up the same at least until 10. 

They are. The class mirrors don't flip along the race war lines.

Zealot damage isn't that low, it's just that it's mostly DoTs. So in PvP you rarely get the full damage out of your DoTs cause the individual battles are so short so. Can't remember how much damage my RP was doing way back but it definitely didn't feel weak. RP is more like playing a WP or DoK in terms of being a hybrid class.

They have regular heals too (not just HoTs).

The engineer and magus classes are underpowered atm, and are going to get revamped soonish.

I'd actually say marauder / white lion and squig herder / shadow warrior are closer to being 'mirrors'. Marauders and WLs are 2-handed melee types with ok armor and high burst, while SHs and SWs are squishier sniper types with lower armor (though the SH is closer to the traditional 'hunter' archetype with the pet). The main difference is that white lions / squig herders get less dps on their own compared to the counterpart, and the pet(s) contribute a notable % of damage and utility. According to other testers' impressions [I haven't played a WL/SH], melee pet AI has issues atm, which sort of gimps both classes. (although SHs have access to ranged pets also)

I played a runepriest in almost all previous beta phases, and damage was pretty meh, especially considering that the spammable nuke drains energy like crazy. (disclaimer: I haven't used the "divine fury" tactic, which'd increase damage by a lot) It actually reminds me of a discipline priest in WOW, with a shield (not instant cast though, at least not for RP), several hots, dots, offensive dispel, and most importantly, an AOE knockback on a 60sec-ish cooldown [psychic scream]. No mind control or mana burn though. :p


-- Z.
edit: epic fail at formatting

The other two tanks, IB and Chosen, function differently.  IBs build up 'grudges' that increases their abilities and can be used to fire off abilities.  The Chosen has no combo or build-up, but has passive offensive auras which can be 'twisted' ala EQ Bard.  That's one way to ensure I'll never play a Chosen. :x

I wonder if the two tanks that were cut from launch were the counters to those classes.  I'd guess the Knight of the Blazing Sun uses defensive auras like a paladin and the DE tank uses the grudge system.  Anyone from earlier betas care to elaborate?

Correct, the KOTBS was supposed to be the aura tank and the Blackguard was supposed to be the rage tank. The other two cut classes [hammerer, choppa] were mirrors, so this is the only discrepancy currently.


-- Z.

Played a bunch, tried all the classes.

Black Orc: Seeing as the class I planned to play was no where to be found (Choppa :heartbreak:) I rolled the next best thing up. Basic stuff here, hit em, hit em again, then hit em some more. Looks like they get some nice single target CCs later in life and could probably keep someone busy a while. But I question with how low my DPS felt whether you would actually manage to kill anything before one of the sure to be zillions of WPs/RPs threw them a heal. In the first bracket scenario I know I was unable to kill shit, damn Stunties WTFPWNT us orcs over and over. Basically felt like playing a prot warrior. But more badass. :drill:

Chosen: Man this looks like a cool class at first glance. SON OF A BITCH! Aura twisting... Anyone know if this is likely/might change? Would love to play a Chosen. The ability to effect a large amount of players really works well for a tank type class. Forcing the enemy to do something about you. Just... :awesome_for_real: :ye_gods: :uhrr:

Fake Edit: Real edit coming later with more classes.

It's funny, from the other end, I was feeling similarly on my ironbreaker half the time. Me and an orc would flail at each other for a while, then one of those goddamn little shaman fuckers would heal the orc and I would cry, cry, cry. We probably won more than we lost, but when we lost, we would get totally spanked.

In RvR: Tanks suck. Tanks with healers own.

Okay. I don't get it.

Are Ironbreakers the only tank on Empire side?

No, not in the beta.

Swordmasters are tanks.  For reals!

I guess it's not a huge mystery why Empire tanks are underplayed.

 :drillf:

I screwed around with a Chosen a bit and the auras didn't seem very twistable to me.

So. what's a White Lion about? Am I going range while this cat bite my target or am I mixing it up at close range?
Explain it in WoW terms please.

Hunter with a Halberd.

 :uhrr: ah well. I'll look at other class options. Sounds good in concept but I can't imagine it being great in practice having 50% of your class ability tied to some AI.

So what's the Ironbreaker/Black Orc about?

Warrior.

So what's the Witch Hunter about?

Rogue.

Etc.

You know, I remember watching an old Warhammer Online video while I was raiding ZA (ie a good while ago, so), and I DISTINCTLY remember several things:

1) There would be a LOT of classes. All unique.

2) There would be a lot of classes. All unique. All uniquely designed (not copying WoW, maybe?)

3) There would be a lot of classes. All uniquely designed. No healers. ABSOLUTELY NO HEALERS.

I was like "ah, well, that's ambitious. But cool..."





So then flash foward and they just, uh, pretty much ripped off WoW for their classes?

The worst part is that most of them use a slightly altered rage mechanic as their gimmick.

Lore -> Warhammer -> WoW -> Warhammer

Look, I don't care if you don't like the classes and I'm not defending their shit. But the fact of the matter is - WoW ripped off Warhammer. Warhammer ripped off... oh. Warhammer.

(http://images.mmosite.com/news/2008/01/12/20080112014716048.jpg)

There was a Warhammer MMORPG before WoW?

Yeah, a few classes are pretty much ripoffs, but not that many.  I don't see how you can say that any of the tanks are much like WoW Warriors at all.  They use entirely different mechanics and are much more based around the concept of guarding other players.  Engineer/Magus have no equivalent at all in WoW.  Archmage/Shaman are totally different as well, using a ying/yang mechanic that looks to be quite interesting.  The melee healers are not much like paladin/shaman. 

I think this complaint is totally insane, unless you're talking about witch hunter/witch elf specifically which are certainly directly stolen from WoW.

No, but there was Warhammer. Anyway, Azaroth already decided to be the asshat in this particular thread. ^_^

Also, nothing new in WoW, etc.

Also, Shadow Hunter has no comparable class in WoW far as I can tell.

Archmage is very much like a WoW Priest -- i.e. a "light-armor" wearing healer with decent single-target damage.

Except the mechanics are entirely different.  The archmage uses their offensive spells to fuel their healing and vice versa.  This would vastly change the play experience.

Also, I would say the class is much more focused on debuffing, DoTs, and group effects (if you spec for it) than the WoW priest. 

First off, bullshit.


Warhammer:age of reckoning IS ripping off wow.

warhammer is a tabletop game, world of warcraft is a computer game. Unless world of warcraft is making you play with pewter mini's then no it's not ripping off warhammer.

Don't get all nerdrage either, this isn't even about lore and if it was then we can only point to tolkien and lovecraft before we even look at these games so gamesworkshop and blizzard can both suck a literary cock.

Warhammer 'age of reckoning' is blatantly using systems(hello battlegrounds) that wow is famous for. Now...it's not a bad thing and no wow didn't invent everything but for fucks 'sake if you don't think warhammer the mmo is taking a lot from wow you are either blind or mildly retarded.

I like warhammer, in fact a lot of the things they are taking from wow are good things and why I like it. I guarentee you though in the tabletop game there's no rage mechanic, in the great warhammer lore there's no 'pet attack' function for white lions. You can take a class from another game, you can re-skin it and call it 'ariel the little mermaid' class but that doesn't mean walt disney invented those game mechanics or isn't straight out copying them.

Unless I missed something, Magus is just a WoW mage that can either focus in direct damage nukes or AE.

You're missing something.  The magus/engineer are about their turrets/daemons, stationary pets that nuke stuff (long range/short range/medium range depending on spec).  They are a versatile class capable of long range/short range dps, utility in lots of debuffs, and various manipulation of their turrets.

Sorcerer/BW are the mage that can focus in dd or ae, and yeah, they are very similar to WoW mages, minus much of their utility in frost/arcane and more focus on pure damage.  Although burnout is a pretty cool mechanic.

You just nerd raged. Why don't we just call White Lion a ripoff of the creature handler in WoW.

And Battlegrounds? Why is WoW famous for creating any sort of arena combat?

Point being, WoW did nothing original. WAR has it's share of flaws, but the vast majority of the design itself is the natural progression from DAOC. More than that, you don't steal from the first thief. You steal from the source. Calling it WoW is as silly as calling it any other MMOG. You need to go further back if you want to nerd rage effectively. A lot further. Warcraft on the other hand, has and always will be Blizzard not getting the Warhammer license. It's not like they're even hiding it.

Ahh so they are demonology speced warlocks.  Got it.

Actually, I'll just say this: I think WAR would've turned out the same way without WoW, except they wouldn't have gone for lower-end graphics and aimed a bit higher. That's what WoW taught everyone. Get it to play on a modern machine with a shitty integrated graphics card.

Um, I guess there are some similarities.  Maybe you could call them a warlock with a unique pet with mid range AE or long range sniper shot hybrid of some sort.  That would just be getting silly though.

I actually take it back, they aren't much like demonology specced warlocks at all.  Affliction or destruction would actually be more similar.

I agree, I don't see what all of the argument around here is.  There are 4 classes in WAR repeated 6 times except they canned two of the repeats at the last minute.  Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS and Healer.  

Same as every other mmog, nothing new and innovative here other than the bold step of not having hybrids, which is a smart move for balancing.  Of course they still let you spec your tank or your healer into being a hybrid dpser instead of a tank or a healer, so you'll end up with the same "everyone is dps speced" crap that you end up with in WoW.

Back to square one, they really aren't that different from Mages in WoW.  They are either long range nukers or mid range aers, pretty much the mage functionality.  Their "uniqueness" comes from the fact that they use their pet/turrent to do the long range nuking and/or mid range aeing, but seriously it's the same mechanic with some additional fluff.  Best case scenario is that you end up with a little extra micromanaging of your pet, which, with pet mechanics this last weekend doesn't really sound like much of a bonus. 

Yeah, they are just like demonology specced Warlocks, except completely different.

I don't think Mythic in any way set out to innovate so it shouldn't be an insult to point to mechanics that are similar to other games.

Well I got the impression that Zealot was supposed to be a buffer/debuffer where they basically marked all their allies and then as they put harbingers on their foes their marks would gain more and more power.  It could be a fun and unique playstyle different from pretty much any other mmog I've played, a buffer that required active play so that the buffs would be worthwhile (a good answer to buff bots).

But instead they are healers.

yeah, warrior priest and archmage are so similar.  If it weren't for the model I couldn't even tell the difference.   :uhrr:

There aren't 20 unique classes, but who in the hell thought that would ever be a good thing in a PvP game?  There are also not just 4 unique classes.  They hit the WoW sweet spot of 8-9 classes and added extra flavor to the different sides.  Well done I'd say.


Magus/Engineer pets worked just fine since they didn't have to path, as they don't move at all.  Anyways, I'm done.  If you want to call the magus/engineer anything, it would have to be mage/warlock/stationary pet hybrid since they are focused too much on versatility and debuffs to just be mages.  If you want to call that a rip off, go for it, but I would disagree.  Considering we are operating in the same genre under very similar overall game mechanics/structure, I'd say they are quite a bit different.

Not sure about the Tank, melee DPS, or range DPS, but it seems that the healers are also broken into 3 types

Melee healing
ranged DPS healing
super healer

Only with a spec for all three types that can turn them into primarily a dps or primarily a healer, so each of the hybrids can become a full healer, or a full dpser (with the difference being one will be a melee dpser and one will be a ranged dpser), like Shammy or pally in WoW.  Or you can be a fool and try to spec hybrid and be a unique snowflake, but then you'll get steamrolled by min/maxers who realize that specialization is always key in these games and they either turned their hybrid healer into a primary dpser or primary healer.

It's not like you ever see anyone in wow spamming "LFM for Arc, need someone who can half assed heal and half assed dps!11!"  And you'll never see it in WAR either, specialization is always key.

Give me a break, Schild. I'm not talking about tabletop games, or lore, or whatever the fuck else. Or else EVERYONE RIPPED OFF D&D! AND EVERYONE RIPPED OFF JRR TOLKIEN!!!! ETC OMG.

I was commenting, very very clearly, on classes and the mechanics of those classes. Quite a few of them are unoriginal ripoffs, period.

Not a huge problem as nobody has had an original fucking idea in their pretty little head for years now, but they DID promise otherwise the last time I checked. Which was my point.

Well, I can't speak for prior promises because I don't follow MMOGs that closely (never have, you'd be hard pressed to find me quoting pre-release shit on MMOGs unless I did the interview, and even then, I forget it. Nothing matters til I can play). I just follow the overall things that are said. The broad sweeping shit. That said, following things as closely as you obviously did is an easy way to get pissed off more than I normally do. It's nice to see someone else do that before me though.

tl;dr you're getting pissed because you trusted developers before the game got released - again. :( c'est la vie, another mmog, same cycle, same as it ever was.

The video I watched was passed to me during a ZA raid like two years ago. I had no idea what the classes of Warhammer were until about a week ago.

So the insults were fantastic, but "yeah ok sry dude" would have sufficed.

Wait. Well, first, I wasn't apologizing - I was thanking you for reminding me why I don't listen to 99% of the shit I here before a game is playable. Secondly, two years ago? Really? We've both been around long enough to know better. You're killing me here.

Edit: I know, I know, I can be a dick. :oh_i_see:

Thank you, honey. I still love you.

Just sayin' - Promising destructable terrain or something and then not delivering is one thing. Promising 47 classes, all unique, no healers, and pledging to totally break the paradigm CUZ WE HATE THAT SHIT then going ahead and lifting classes from WoW is, uh, a little more halfassed and conspicuous.

This is wrong from what I have experienced. Granted I havent played Shaman, but I have played all the other healer classes and their specs are not, Damage, Healing, Utility like WoW. They all have a Direct, Over Time, and AE specs. The direct line increased Direct Damage and Direct healing, Over time is HoTs and DoTs, and AE is AE.

Also, in WAR specing down one line doesnt make you completely useless in the other lines ala WoW, just better at the line you chose.

**EDIT - I forgot to note that the above doesnt apply to the MHealers.

We'll have to see how it plays out at rank 40 then I guess.

EDIT:  From what I see about the spec lines they appear to be either spec in healing, spec in debuffing or spec in damage.  i.e. with a Zealot is Alchemy for healing, Ritual for debuffing and Witchcraft for damage, or for an Archmage it's Isha for healing, Asuryan for damage and Vaul for debuffing. 

You are neglecting the fact that there are three totally different kinds of healers in WAR.  Warrior Priests and Disciples literally cannot heal without beating on people.  Archmages/Shaman can't heall well without dps/debuffing.  So if you spec damage for any of these classes, you are augmenting something that you have to do anyways, and by proxy making your healing more effective.  Also, Archmage gets very effective crowd control and debuffing for their alternate lines, things that are obviously very useful in PvP.  I can't speak for the melee healers, but I highly doubt a non-heal spec archamage will be inferior in PvP.

The only healer class that is analagous to WoW is the zealot/runepriest.  And these healers get improvement to their healing no matter what line they spec, so the point is moot.

Edit:  The runepriest gets bonus to healing no matter what line they spec.  The zealot does not.  That is a little surprising to me considering they were supposed to be mirrors.

I have played a Runepriest for about 95% of my beta time.  I have to say that they are quite different from many other healers in the game, and a good bit different from the priest in WoW.  The most obvious difference is not in the class but in the targetting (which Cevik mentioned earlier).  Honestly I don't know why WoW has not added friendly targets (unless they did since I left).

Morfiend brought up a good point in that just because I spec down the damage line (which I did... dang I am addicted to Rune of Fire) does not mean I can't heal.  The fact that I use my +damage -healing tactic does not help, but I can still keep myself and a couple tanks up in open field RVR.

This is probably the second best healer I have played... second to the Cleric in Vanguard.  Of all the things I hated about that game, I sure loved my dwarf cleric.

Actually, Zealots work the same way as Runepriests insofar as having three mastery paths based on 1) direct effects, 2) duration effects, and 3) area effects.  Heals/offense go up in each line, so your original understanding of these mirror classes is correct.

I know the Zealot description on the main Warhammer site as well as wardb implies otherwise, but their mastery lines are organized as the Runepriest - by spell type.  In contrast, it is the Archmage/Shaman that has to pick to specialize in heals, offense, or de/buffs. 

The idea of getting heals/offense boosted in each tree has me considering rolling a Runepriest/Zealot despite HATING staring at group health bars so much I never knew the layout of any area nor what any mob looked like.

Health bars only became an issue for me in Warbands.  Actually that is still one of my beefs with the game, so much so that our guild will likely not use them but instead just run 6 man groups linked up over Vent.  The F-key controls worked well when healing because the players health does not even pop up on the screen until it gets hit.  It is easy enough to see if it is F2-6 getting beat on without moving my eyes from the action, so I could heal and not have to stare at the "Party" menu.  Somehow they killed the F-keys when you make a warband, and they make the prominent bar the Action Points... so for a while I kept healing people who were using AP instead of losing health.

I really hate that.

Elemental shaman.

Can't you change that in the settings menu if you scroll to the bottom? I know there was some options about when the health bar would show up, but I'm not sure if it applied to Warbands as well.

You can change it in the interface.

They actually sound a lot like that Hib class with the shroom turrets. Which was a really fun class to play actually.

Yeah, it's similar to that one.  Except you only get one turret, and the turret isn't as much the focus as it is supplementary.

Not much like an elemental shaman.  Unless you used flame totem and lightning bolt exclusively...in which case that would emulate 1/4 of the class.

Nope.

Alchemy is the direct line, Witchcraft is the over-time line, and Dark Rituals is the AE line. I know this because Zealot is one of the 2 main classes I have played.

Then they need to drastically change the documentation, because there are going to be some disappointed people out there.

From the official site:

They changed it for the Zealot and the Rune Priest.

Rather then have a dedicated 'healing' tree (because that's what it was - the healing tree, the damage tree, the debuff tree) - they split them up, and re-sorted it by instant effects, over times, and AEing.

The reason behind this is that they didn't want everyone to feel like they had to get locked into just the healing tree, and to give all specs both healing and damage capabilities.

Yes, they do. They forgot to change the descriptions when they changed the focus of the trees a little while ago.

I'm a whore :(

852 to posts, you should know better. Don't whore yourself like that here. I let the other one go because you just pointed people to your sig, that said - that's enough.

Sorry, equal treatment to pretty much everyone on this front. Except for me. ^_^

Sorry bout that.  But I was drunk when I posted it.  You can delete it. I took it out.

Have you ever played an elemental shaman? Because you just about summed it up. Minus the flame shock.  :awesome_for_real:

Now now, you use chain lightning too. I seen it!