f13.net

OK, I have a bit of a dilemma on my hands. Z-RFE3 currently sucks for ratting. It's getting more and more popular and the rats seem to be getting worse and despawning more than usual. Not to mention that it's it's starting to get to me, it's boring as hell.

I need another way to make ISK to either replace or (most likely) supplement my ratting. Howver, it can't be via an alt. I don't like alts, I don't use them, and I can't really afford to pay for two accounts anyway. I also don't want to take too much time out of my main to train another char.

So I'm wondering, what alternatives are there for me to make some ISK? I need real solutions that work, and I need something that will fetch equal or more ISK for time than ratting (I can make 30 mill a day quite ealsily if it's not too crowded) without too much skill training.


These are my current skills for your reference:

Roberik Manders

Attributes
Intelligence: 17.28
Perception: 20.52
Charisma:  9.72
Willpower: 17.28
Memory: 15.12

Corporation Management
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level2.gif) Anchoring
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level2.gif) Corporation Management
Total Skillpoints in Group: 5,658

Drones
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Combat Drone Operation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Drone Interfacing
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Drones
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Gallente Drone Specialization
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Heavy Drone Operation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Scout Drone Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 2,335,060

Electronics
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Cloaking
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Electronic Warfare
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Electronics
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Electronics Upgrades
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Long Range Targeting
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Propulsion Jamming
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Sensor Linking
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Signature Analysis
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Survey
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Targeting
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level2.gif) Weapon Disruption
Total Skillpoints in Group: 1,281,293

Engineering
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Energy Emission Systems
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Energy Grid Upgrades
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Energy Management
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Energy Systems Operation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Engineering
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Shield Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 469,476

Gunnery
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Advanced Weapon Upgrades
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Controlled Bursts
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Gunnery
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Large Energy Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Large Hybrid Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Medium Energy Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Medium Hybrid Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Medium Pulse Laser Specialization
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Motion Prediction
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Rapid Firing
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Sharpshooter
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Small Energy Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Small Hybrid Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Small Projectile Turret
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Small Pulse Laser Specialization
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Surgical Strike
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Trajectory Analysis
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Weapon Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 4,940,000

Industry
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Mining
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Learning
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Analytical Mind
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Clarity
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Eidetic Memory
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Empathy
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Focus
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Instant Recall
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Iron Will
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Learning
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Logic
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Spatial Awareness
Total Skillpoints in Group: 777,335

Mechanic
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Armor Rigging
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) EM Armor Compensation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Explosive Armor Compensation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Hull Upgrades
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Jury Rigging
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Kinetic Armor Compensation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level2.gif) Launcher Rigging
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Mechanic
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Repair Systems
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Salvaging
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Thermic Armor Compensation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 899,000

Missile Launcher Operation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Cruise Missiles
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Heavy Missiles
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Missile Launcher Operation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Rapid Launch
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Standard Missiles
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Warhead Upgrades
Total Skillpoints in Group: 950,825

Navigation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Afterburner
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) High Speed Maneuvering
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Navigation
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Warp Drive Operation
Total Skillpoints in Group: 362,040

Science
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Cybernetics
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Science
Total Skillpoints in Group: 256,750

Social
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Social
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Spaceship Command
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Amarr Battleship
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Amarr Cruiser
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Amarr Frigate
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Amarr Industrial
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Battlecruisers
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Covert Ops
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Destroyers
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Electronic Attack Ships
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level3.gif) Gallente Battleship
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level4.gif) Gallente Cruiser
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Gallente Frigate
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level5.gif) Spaceship Command
Total Skillpoints in Group: 2,793,659

Trade
(http://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/character/level1.gif) Contracting
Total Skillpoints in Group: 250

Total Skillpoints: 15,071,846
Total Number of Skills: 91

Skills at Level 1: 11
Skills at Level 2: 4
Skills at Level 3: 15
Skills at Level 4: 42
Skills at Level 5: 19


Thanks. :)

I guess you've looked at and dismissed for some reason, datacores and missioning.

Slayerik telling you suicide gank in 5.....4....3.....2....(sorry, it's become required posting in any threads talking about isk)

You can make 30 mil an hour running level 4 missions in empire. Get yourself a jumpclone, once a week jump back into empire for a day (24 hour cooldown on JC use) and run a few level 4 missions. Will pay for the rest of the week's pvp'ing.

Actually 30 mil/hour might be overstating the case a bit with just one character, but you should hit 20 mil/hr easy. Dominixes are very good missioning ships once you get completely au fait with how to control drone agro in missions.

L4 zoar and sons... Quality 20 agent in a .1 sec system.  Some of the best legitimate money in the game.  This is why I started The Money Thread a few months ago, btw.

Provided that you have the faction standings required for access to a level 4 agent.  They're not trivially easy to get.

im going to have to come along with you at some point so i can steal some standings so the grind wont take as long

If trivial is less than an hour I guess so. Took me maybe 3 days to get up to using the L3Q20 agent in Zeriert and another 1-2 to use the 4.

I barely have any standings for any missioning agents, though I'll definately look into it. If I can come missioning with someone for a few days to get the standings up quicker this may make a viable alternative.

What no Slay? Rob you should do some suicide ganking I have enough ISK now I don't have to worry about ratting or ISK making for a good while.

You do need multiple (3?) accounts to do solo suicide ganks, no? Scanner, ganker and a scooper.
So I guess it isn't for everyone.

For cash I rat or mission, it agrees with my casual playstyle. Especially ratting, when I want to unwind a bit in the evenings, ratting for an hour or so soothes my soul. I haven't seen a faction spawn outside of the exploration content but I have made a lot of cash even when I have to afk every 15 minutes or so to break up a poodle/toddler fight (they both are quite vicious fuckers, believe me).

I've spend a lot of skillpoints towards exploration, believing it would be a lucrative and casual friendly undertaking. I found out, while it was lucrative, it wasn't casual friendly. Scanning for a good sig for 3 hours isn't that cool when you know you'll still need a couple of hours to clear it out in a single battleship and if you don't clear it out somebody else will before you finish your next workday.

I did make about a billion doing a couple l3 complexes in lonetrek through exploration, so I guess it isn't that bad if you manage to catch the good stuff.
I also made a good deal of isk through a combat site that escalated all the way through to the 30mil faction boss and the accompanying loot.
All that was in high sec. While I haven't been really looking I have done two radar (hacking) sites in 0.0, both were just as loot broken as their counterparts in empire. The other kind of encounters are obviously more rewarding, although the very lucrative escalating combat sites tend to take you on a tour through enemy territory.

I make most of my isk through ratting, but I also have my alt follow me around and I loot/salvage/sell absolutely everything that drops short of cap booster charges.

Yeh, I've only just started looting again. I'm only collecting the battleship loot, to save time, and I'm filling my cans up pretty quick that way. i'm loooking at making a trip up every few days with just short of 10k m3 of loot per run. Should fetch me a nice sum I'm hoping.

I don't salavge atm, but I might train up my salvging skills and get a salvage ship so I can take a break in that if I get bored killing Sanshas. How much does salvage make on the market, anyway?

In Z-RFE I find it runs between 50 and 75% of bounty value. So long as you are fitted with both a salavager and tractor beam, it is worth your time.

Basically watch for how many Melted Capacitor Consoles (250k), Armor Plates (130k), and Burned Logic Circuits (75k) you get, on average battleship rats probably drop 1 of each. Everything else the Sanshas drop is junk. I wouldn't worry about module loot except for modulated lasers and n-type hull upgrades.

He said he didn't wanna use another account :)

I salvage every BS that dies within 20km of me and leave the rest for the scavengers.  And I only grab loot if it's worth over 200k or so (guns, armor plates, neuts)

Yeah if you're single-accounting then you need to tread the line between salvage & loot being worth the time and not. Phildo's rule of thumb there is a good one. 2 accounts = salvage & loot everything, it doesn't add to the mission time at all, plus you're missioning a lot faster anyway cos remote repping is a lot better than self-repping, means you can pack more gank and less tank :)

Standings for missioning don't take too long to get really. Last time I did it I found that running level 2's was the fastest way. I skipped level 3's entirely and went straight to 4's. You can plough through level 2's in no time at all - don't loot or salvage at all, just blast the mission objective and get outta there. Assault frigs are good for those (about all they're good for unfortunately).

As I said in the other thread, ninja rat in deep Catch, down towards FAT.  The truesec is far better, the belts clear of ratters, and the steady flow of friendly fleets going to FAT make it relatively safe so long as you watch local, fit a cloak and have safespots set up.  Plus, you are nearby for the daily ops that are running.

I was ratting near Doril yesterday, Litom to be exact, one belt had 3 x 1.7 mil bounty BS and trusec of -0.02.

I think that Curse is like Delve, isn't it, in that the truesec for ratting is effectively bugged to -1.00.  I could be wrong.  If it is, though, we should set TCF blue and move there  :awesome_for_real:

I've seen rats like that on the gates, too.  I have been wondering why they are so nice.

The real question is whether TCF would set us blue.   :oh_i_see:


Regarding missioning:  I keep trying it again and not liking it.
1 - lowsec missioning is actually more dangerous than 0.0 ratting, given lowsec pirate types
2 - takes a solid day* to get set up with a ship, agent and jumpclone
3 - I always get distracted by something more interesting than killing the guy with the Quafe Ultra secret for the 12th time.
4 - the missions are frequently 1-2 jumps away, taking time away from actually making money and making #1 more of a factor
5 - depending on the agent, you might get some level of "drive to xyz stations" or "bring me 12 rocks" and those feel like a waste of time, though you can't dump it at the peril of your standing.



*"day", in my case, is defined as the 2-3 hours I get per session.

LvL 4s in Lo-sec with a corp mate or two and sometimes even a ISK evening by the corp is both fun and effecient in ISK making as you have dedicated salvagers and looters and guys to keep the space free from scum. I really enjoy those sessions :)

Oh, ofc we are an empire space corp, so this makes organizing something like that easier I guess.

Wow you make this sound very tempting.  Just throw a cloak on a Raven (for me at least), make sure to align to something as soon as I jump into belt and go nuts!

It's best done in a fast-aligning ship, but yep, it's pretty safe.  Jus be sure that you kill any scrambling frigates the second you jump in.

Suggestions for ships?  I'm very tempted to give this a try this weekend.  My only worry would be jumping out and avoiding reds so often that it kills my isk/hour.  Then of course one BS loss can set you way back in your profit.  :heartbreak:

Would a cerb have the dps (or tank) for this if fitted with a cloak?

You can also sell GTCs if you have extra cash. One 60 day will get you about 400mil for $35 (US).

Although using a Cerb/Raven to "ninja rat" could really suck do to the need to have a full hull of ammunition.  I'm guessing something with lasers or a drone boat would be better.  I bet an Ishtar would be great for ratting in hostile territory.....too bad I can't fly one.  :cry:

Bah, a ratting Ishtar is just about impossible to catch in a belt. I should know; there was an PvE Ishtar I was trying to nail for weeks.   :awesome_for_real:

Just make sure you recall drones before trouble arrives.

Cusre has a LOT of stations in it.  So reloading fresh ammo isn't such a big deal, nor is getting safe when reds come through (which they will, frequently)

I'm having some severe issues with lag in PvP (barely capable laptop at the moment) and I find my play-time is an hour or two a day at very most.  That plus the upcoming nerf has got me thinking about going back to training T2-BS-type skills and aiming toward the L4 missions and letting that ride until boredom (and/or new computer) sets in.

Have you tried turning graphics to a minimum, removing all friendlies & drones from your overview and turning off brackets?

He's playing on a laptop in PvP.  When I did that, I found the laptop was unworkable for anything but a Covert Ops alt no matter how much I turned the graphics down.

--Dave

im currently running EVE on a laptop and have for a year now.  I dont find it to horrible. I am also on wireless so....

Obviously it would depend on the laptop.  If you're talking about an AlienWare gaming laptop that has had full-fledged PC components wedged into a laptop format with fans that sound like a jet engine, it's completely different than if you're talking about some standard Dell or HP that throttles itself down to 20% clock rates when you run a 3D game more than 30 seconds.

--Dave

standard HP laptop with non of the upgrades and an nvidia gefore go 6150 gfx card....

Yes, everything is on minimum, although I may not have brackets off.  It does ok for covops work, as mentioned, but even when I go to starmap if bogs down and entering a cloud its going to a slide show.  I think the GPU gets over-hot as a new cooler tends to help a bit.  This thing isn't intended for real gaming and a new machine is a ways out on the budget.  Not too shocking, I've been limping along with this for quite a while now.  Plan is to keep training and eventually I'll be there.

Surely there must be a better way to make the cash than ratting? I mean all the guys with the huge wallets, hardly spend their time on Eve ratting? (or suicide ganking).

I just sold a character for 3.2 billion that I have trained up since December if you deduct all the GTCs and skillbooks implants etc. I'd say I got about 2 billion return so thats 250 mil a month profit.

They they have dispo moons, do huge trading, or are corp thieves.

Or have made the money long ago and are just not spending it.  T2 BPO's, trading with the NPC's back in 2003-4.

Actually, it's just a matter of time.  A lot of people are looking for ways to make quick cash because they have such big PVP expenses, but if you stop PVP'ing and your expenses go away, the cash kinda comes to you.  Spend a month ratting / mining your way to 1 billion (doesn't even require good rats), then spend another month turning 10% daily profit on it, and you can find yourself with 15 billion in your wallet within 2 months.

I betcha, let someone loose in Empire with 500 mil out of the corp wallet, and in a couple months the corp would be set, with all fees paid and 100% PVP reimbursement policy for all members.

Making 10% on  billion is not always as easy as you are thinking. Trading is a bitch. Lots of hours, risk of me, low profit margins on most things (high margins come with inherit risks).

Yep, I once did the day-trading thing.  I made a lot of money when turning 50 mill into 150 mill, but once the stakes got higher it didn't scale as well.  It's easy to prey on the inefficiencies of the market in certain, specific areas, but those inefficiencies disappear quickly once you are exploiting them.  It works well for what you can turn around inside a few hours, especially on high volumes but competitors, especially those using trading bots, will quickly catch up.

The big killing I made was on Zydrine two patches ago.  Boy, did I get lucky on my timing there, though.

I spent a few weeks buying cloaks and missile launchers then hauling them to Promethia and selling for 50-100% markup it was a slow enough market at the time, I was only having to lower my prices once a day. The profit would work out about 100 mil for every 200 mil spent but they would sell slow I would haul 200-300 mil a week and turn about 150 mil in the same time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not stuck for cash, its just all tied up in the market. Ive about 2 billion in the market that just seems to let the money trickle in and as mention before, can be difficult when people start undercutting you. I have a lot of stuff that hasn't sold in 6 months, or sells in very small quantities.

Ive noticed some items (like implants) for sale in 0.0 for less than half the market price in empire, I don't know how this can be. I thought they were not made by players?

Buy them and reprice them.  Instant profit.  And no, they are sold by players after buying them from the loyalty points store.  But some people don't realise that they're not "free".

Ah right, I never thought of the loyalty points. I'll buy them all up tonight then, I thought someone was able to manufacture them cheaper.

A lot of the people I know with deep pockets are ETC sellers.

So, with the changes, will HACs still be good ratters?  I don't see anything in the nano nerf that will affect them as ratting ships.

"Good" for me means good DPS, cheap, and easy to train for, so a battleship is better than a HAC.

Whatever is most efficient is best in my opinion.

They won't break HAC's for Level 4's, but since you can't use MWD's on those anyway speed tanking wasn't really an issue (you're either faster than everything in the mission, or you aren't).  This is entirely a PvP issue.

--Dave

Armor/shield tanking Ishtar can rat highly effieciently and has better speed maneuverability than a BC/BS. Considering my drone DPS in the Ishtar is higher than the Domi I would prefer it, plus it can warp out fast if you see hostiles appear in system.

I'd imagine drones are a special case, because the Ishtar can run battleship class drones.

But I doubt you'd see a Cerberus challenging a Raven, or a Zealot challenging an Armageddon for ratting capability.

And you can afford to lose multiple battleships for each HAC. Plus a Ratting Battleship can easily carry everything it needs to be refitted for a remote-rep plex team at the drop of a hat.

Sure but it depends on what your needs are if say for instance you might be moving into some extremely hostile ratting space in the near future I wouldn't suggest using a Battleship as you are more likely to get caught with your pants down. Though on the flipside if you get caught in a HAC you lose your shirt aswell, but I mainly like the HACs for speed ratting from system to system to get your sec status up.

I like my Astarte for Guristas ratting, but im a rich bitch.

Actually a Cerberus can tank the sansha rats better than a raven, so when you max out HAM's using a Cerb, its sheer manuverability and better speed make it a better option for hostile space and it has a 650m3 cargo hold. Its down on DPS compared to the raven, but only for battleships because the Cerb will take out cruisers and frigs instantly, so its a close call.