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Title: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 05:17:19 AM
Apparently. (http://www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&func_id=1303&table=CONTENT&item=1004)

Quote

Funcom and Eidos announce massive evolution plans for Age of Conan

Massive PvP update in June – New areas and dungeons – Powerpoints and Guild Alliance warfare to come

Durham, USA – June 13, 2008 – After the incredible initial success for Age of Conan, a whole world of MMO players are eagerly anticipating the future plans for one of the most popular online games ever released. While Age of Conan has already evolved massively since launch, numerous expansive additions are yet to come. Funcom and Eidos are therefore proud to lift the veil on Age of Conan’s promising future, and today the two companies reveal selected features which are now in production.

"While we have enjoyed the initial success for Age of Conan, we know that a solid launch is but the start when it comes to the MMO genre,” said Gaute Godager, Game Director on Age of Conan. ”As we look ahead we are preparing a huge amount of new content, and what we are presenting today will evolve Age of Conan even further. It’s naturally an incredibly ambitious update plan for a live MMO game, but we are certain our players would want nothing less.”

Without further ado, here are some of the cool things to expect in the months to come:

PvP evolved – To the Death

The great combat system in Age of Conan has taken MMO fighting to a new level of fun, and Player versus Player combat plays a major part in this. As a result, a massive new PvP update is planned for late June. Aptly called To the death, this update brings more consequence and rewards to PvP, and an important part of it is the Fugitive system. The more lower level players you kill, the easier it is for others to hunt you down. In addition, ten PvP levels with additional ranks will be introduced, as well as specific gear and weapons for PvP.

Guild Alliance Warfare

Preproduction has started on a MASSIVE free update which will come later this year. Currently titled "Kingship!”, large clusters of guilds will be able to form alliances, and rule and conquer on a massive scale. Everyone in a guild alliance will play a part in this system, and together they can even erect unique looking alliance Battlekeeps. The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific "wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Powerpoints

This fall, a unique reward and character evolution system called Powerpoints will be introduced. This rewards active in-game behavior, and allows for gathering points through numerous methods, including owning a Battlekeep, playing the end-game at level 80, winning PvP matches, or simply being an active guild member or subscribing to the game. There will be many ways to obtain Powerpoints, and numerous rewards, ranging from exclusive Powerfeats to weapons, armor and potions. Powerpoints may even allow you to level faster!

New areas and dungeons

You won’t need to wait for an expansion pack to explore exciting new areas. In the next period, Funcom will include several new areas, as well as evolving already existing areas. This includes a brand new dungeon in Aquilonia, reshaping three dungeons in Stygia, and an entire mountain range in Cimmeria!

Improved player-made villages and Battlekeep systems

While the guild alliance system brings a whole new level to the game, Funcom will continue to expand the existing player-made areas and the systems running them. A focus on evolving the massive elements of the game even further continues, ranging from placing NPC’s in the cities to more choices and benefits.

Social updates

An MMO is nothing without a good social scene. While Conan is all about crushing your enemies, social enhancements are also getting some love. A fun example is the combo-based dancing system which is now coming to the game, and it’s entirely motion captured by professional dance artists.

More adventures

Age of Conan has received tremendous praise for immersion and the great voice-over quests. This is but the start of the adventure, and numerous new quests are coming into the game, spread across the entire world and across the level ranges. Soon 60 additional quests will also get full voice acting, further improving immersion.

Embracing community feedback Since launch several enhancements and fixes have been implemented to Age of Conan, and Funcom has continuously staffed up the service departments to improve customer satisfaction. This has already resulted in a better game experience, but the work will continue. At the heart of all of this stands the Age of Conan community. A lot of the upcoming improvements to the game will be based directly on community feedback, and the wishes and concerns players have when it comes to the future of the game will always be taken into account.

By reading the community websites, official forums and the monthly Clan of Conan newsletter you can expect additional information about upcoming features and released updates, as well as an arena to give your feedback. A new Clan of Conan newsletter is also going live today, with more detail on the upcoming features. http://funcom.cachefly.net/WebFiles/Newsletter/Issue17/


Title: Re: Massive update in June
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 13, 2008, 05:31:50 AM
My first reaction was going to be something negative but I can always save that. I will say however I am looking forward to the new PP grind, it sounds like a great and original way to gain special abilities and pvp weapons/armor and I am eagerly anticipating this new guild alliance warfare as well, afterall it's always fun to need 100 more people to accomplish things, gives a real sense of community. Finally it just tickles me pink that In the coming months they will be fixing regular guild warfare and villages because while it was promised at release, we all know how stressful these things are, take your time funcom.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 13, 2008, 06:00:24 AM
Quote
ten PvP levels with additional ranks will be introduced
10 levels that span the 80 in some form? Or ten additional levels? Or something completely separate, like AAXP from EQ1? Anyone know at this point besides Funcom (assuming they do)?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 06:06:01 AM
Judging by the ingame interface, I'd say 10 PvP levels completely unrelated to your PvE levels.
Honestly, that sounds like Honour Points in disguise to talk in WoW terms. But I remember a similar system being in early Anarchy Online too. So nothing major, still it's nice to have something new to speculate about.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Draegan on June 13, 2008, 08:07:10 AM
Quote
Source (http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&table=CONTENT&func_id=2535&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=online&utm_campaign=Clan_of_Conan&utm_content=issue17)

PvP consequences – the fugitive system

No longer will evil misdeeds go unpunished. Of course, Hyboria is ruthless and barbaric so don’t expect anyone to deal out justice just because someone smacks you about with a very heavy axe, but some justice is actually now being introduced to the world.

This is where the fugitive system comes in, presented in a set of colors defining your fugitive status – from blue to orange and eventually the deadly red.

Everyone is by default classified as “blue”, but your actions as a player killer will affect your fugitive rating. If you kill someone way under your level, you will notice that you will very quickly move to red. So will actions such as killing someone repeatedly, or other general unfairness. The more serious the crime, the quicker you rise in fugitive.

Obtaining red status will be quite painful to you. This means that other players can kill you without rising in fugitive level, and if they manage to kill you while you have red fugitive you will actually drop one of your better items and gold that they can loot!

Of course, turning red will be a double-edged sword. Sure, it will get you a lot of attention and many will probably see you as a danger to be avoided. But at the same time, people will hunt you down for your items and your gold so be very, very careful!

Pretty clever anti-gank mechanism.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 08:43:34 AM
Item loot FTW!


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 13, 2008, 08:44:16 AM
Nice idea. I always get worried with "chance to drop an item" stuff though. These are very item-centric games. Unless their crafting system yields items of worth merely relative to pre-Trammel UO (where if you lost it is was just a craft away from replacement), this will devolve into something like the below, probably in this order:

Only stuff in your inventory (so players will keep it clean)
Only stuff you don't mystically bind in some form (so players just bind everything)
Only an item you can't wear/use (see #1)
Only an item you choose to give up (see #1)
Only... ah, heck, we're removing this "feature" and just making it cash


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Viin on June 13, 2008, 08:54:16 AM
It will be interesting to see how they handle the item drop. It sounds like it'll be a high 'meta level' item randomly from your inventory or what you have equiped. (You have to do both, otherwise people will remove everything right before they die or not have anything in your inventory as you say). The only way around it would be to run around naked, which would be amusing too.

I think I will have to start leveling my RP-PVP alt here soon ..

Btw, has anyone tried the PvP arenas at all?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 08:55:50 AM
I wonder how they're thinking that will work with the insane amounts of AoE in Conan and being indirectly griefed by low-levels as you're fighting mobs. Hi Tempest, I'll go stand a bit in your lightning storm, then I'll come gank you with my main when you've turned red.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 09:02:58 AM
I think I will have to start leveling my RP-PVP alt here soon ..

Btw, has anyone tried the PvP arenas at all?

I am doing that too right now. RL friends or not, I have my lev. 80 in their guild. Now it's time to get serious and do the PvP way.

Arenas by the way (minigame) are funny and so pointless that your nails will bleed.
They give you a good primer of what will come and a good chance to get your feet wet with formations, line of sight issues, collision detection and such. You can call it a PvP tutorial if you want, or a gym, but interest doesn't stick with these gimped down battlegrounds (which were the suck anyway).


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 13, 2008, 09:03:58 AM
I wonder how they're thinking that will work with the insane amounts of AoE in Conan and being indirectly griefed by low-levels as you're fighting mobs. Hi Tempest, I'll go stand a bit in your lightning storm, then I'll come gank you with my main when you've turned red.

That would piss me off, but it would definitely add another bit of craftiness to the game. Gotta watch your surroundings not only for those that would gank you, but those that would be ganked by you in order to screw you over. Also seems to me that there should be a time limit on the red name bit. Like if you don't gank anyone for a couple of weeks, you go orange and so on. Sort of like a timeout redemption period or something. Maybe not. I'm just trying to think of ways that someone who's a victim of Tarami's example could redeem themselves without negating the point behind the red name thing to begin with. In other words, Mr. Ganker shouldn't be allowed to go back blue by slaying 200 bunnies to feed the local orphanage. That seems too easy and immediate.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 09:05:30 AM
The success of half of the shit in this newsletter completely depends on how active the border kingdoms are. Assuming every guild on every server is mostly alts, it's highly probable that even though we have the 5th largest guild on Zug, that all the other guilds are in the same position with only 40-50 actual unique members. As such, there might have been a bit too much focus places on, well, you know. Finding other players.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 09:16:21 AM
Most likely the fugitive status will decay over time. I'm imagining it's made something like "Added fugitive per gank = Your level - Target level" and then a banded scale (0-10 = blue, 20-60 = orange, 61+ = red and so on).

Actually, I'm thinking the whole grief thing could be solved by getting a short grace period once you hit red, like 30 minutes, which would leave you time to finish up and make a run for it. If you were let to get away initially, it'd be much harder to track you down later to gank you with his/her main or a friend's character, yet it would leave you vulnerable to people in general. Or something. :)


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Samwise on June 13, 2008, 09:26:33 AM
Their fugitive system sounds familiar.  Didn't Lineage have something like that?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 09:30:09 AM
I'd say this is 99% the system in place in Lineage 2. I am sure there are differences but I can't think of any.

EDIT: Yes, here's one: in L2 becoming a fugitive isn't related to killing lower players. Whenever you assault someone (and your guild isn't at war with them) your karma starts going down the drain. L2 really discourages ganking in any form, and encourages organized PVP, be it sieges or guild warring.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Threash on June 13, 2008, 09:32:46 AM
How did it work there?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 09:36:38 AM
They had an SOJ meter - System of Judgement. And uhhhh. You know, I can't be arsed to make an effort here. Keke.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 09:37:45 AM
Not that much lowbie ganking due to enormous world and slooow traveling so to gank lowbies you had to actively go looking for them, and because of the said system, you were actually going to find troubles too. But whoever did it, used to do it naked so without the risk of losing euip. Still, that was not so helping, because to amend from your red state you had to go grind mobs (lots), and to grind mobs you needed your full euip. And when you are grinding mobs (in a zone your level), and you are red, and people (your level) passes by you... usually you get to eat dirt.

So, I'd say it worked... too much in Lineage 2. That prevented not only ganking but free pvp too. I'd say Conan's is an advancement of that model and it will probably work very well.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 13, 2008, 09:43:20 AM
Unfortunately, I'm finding it very intriguing. Which usually means I'll try it with way too high of hopes, get ganked during some quest I wanted to get done before going to work, get some smarmy poorly written tell from said ganker, be pissed off the rest of the day and quit when I get home.

Wow. I think I just talked myself out of it in a single post.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 09:45:09 AM
Unfortunately, I'm finding it very intriguing. Which usually means I'll try it with way too high of hopes, get ganked during some quest I wanted to get done before going to work, get some smarmy poorly written tell from said ganker, be pissed off the rest of the day and quit when I get home.

Wow. I think I just talked myself out of it in a single post.

This is why I only PvE with totally controlled PvP.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 09:47:15 AM
Or try a RP-PVP server.

Aw hell, you guys are missing out on half the fun...for reals!


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 09:49:50 AM
I just rolled on the euro rp-pvp. I'd love to join you Slayerik, but looks like playing on the NA server from EU is less easy than I thought.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Bunk on June 13, 2008, 09:53:02 AM
I'm finding it really funny that everyone is glossing over the fact that this is basically just the Dread Lord system. We all know how perfect and unexploited that was.

The item drop idea did give me flashes of AC Darktide though, where everyone carried around multiple packs full of usless but expensive loot to act as "drop items".


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 09:58:35 AM
where everyone carried around multiple packs full of usless but expensive loot to act as "drop items".

Unless when Funcom says "you will actually drop one of your better items" they are referring to "equipped items"...


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: shiznitz on June 13, 2008, 10:05:14 AM
I wonder how they're thinking that will work with the insane amounts of AoE in Conan and being indirectly griefed by low-levels as you're fighting mobs. Hi Tempest, I'll go stand a bit in your lightning storm, then I'll come gank you with my main when you've turned red.

Yup. Sounds a bit like the UO criminal system. If I cast an AE spell on a mob and Bob McBob waltzed into it on purpose, I would turn grey and he could kill me and loot me dry with no consequence.  The only way I could get revenge would be to kill him while he was blue, thereby increasing my counter towards becoming red which meant that anyone could attack me with impunity.  If I turned red, I could wait X days to go blue again.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 10:09:05 AM
Don't cast Fire field :) l2play


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 10:19:35 AM
Don't cast Fire field :) l2play
That's completely uncalled for forum trolling.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 10:26:10 AM
Don't cast Fire field :) l2play
That's completely uncalled for forum trolling.

No, its a valid point. If you don't want to get caught like that...be aware of your surroundings. There is so much fucking handholding in games these days, to me it's refreshing when you basically have to use your head. Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 13, 2008, 10:30:54 AM
Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.

That right there is the kind of attitude those that complain about FFA PvP'ers are talking about. This was a discussion of ramifications of that PvP system and you turned it into a "lrn2play carebear noob" flame. While I agree with you on the fact that you shouldn't cast AoE's unless you know damn sure your field of fire is clear, that kind of attitude is uncalled for.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 10:34:14 AM
No, its a valid point. If you don't want to get caught like that...be aware of your surroundings. There is so much fucking handholding in games these days, to me it's refreshing when you basically have to use your head. Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.
Yeah, and don't melee or play a ToS or ever use AoE when there's a lowbie nearby that can potentially ruin shit for you. :uhrr:

Here's the thing; why the heck should I have to care about not ganking suicidal lowbies? That's artificial bullshit. It doesn't help "PvP morals" at all.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 10:35:15 AM
Yeah, I'm an ass.

I'm usually so surrounded by so much PvE love here I get a little pissy at times. My last like 5 posts have pretty much been shit.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 10:36:56 AM
Actually, your last 500 posts have pretty much been shit. You actually think some people are carebears when really we just hate design ramifications and changes based on a vocal minority that effect the gameplay of people who like professionally designed content more than CREATE UR OWN content. There's a reason I always have a REAL skill-based game (for example, MGO right now) to play along with an MMOG. It's because people of your kind that think FFA PVP is the shit are just the most untolerable fucking people in gaming.

I mean seriously, learn to play another instrument. You suck at this one.

Edit: By the way, if MMOG designers didn't take the short-sighted jackhammer approach to development, odds are none of these posts would have been made from either of us. Unfortunately, Funcom - like every other company, nearly - has decided to let the PvE game suffer due to imba in PVP. Which is, admittedly through no fault of you or I, THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT. Unfortunately, you seem to keep trying to validate it. Which means you do things like call me a carebear (which couldn't be further from the truth) and sit around validating such design decisions. Essentially, your entire minority needs to shut the fuck up and go away until developers can get their head out of the fucking sand.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 10:38:53 AM
No, its a valid point. If you don't want to get caught like that...be aware of your surroundings. There is so much fucking handholding in games these days, to me it's refreshing when you basically have to use your head. Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.
Yeah, and don't melee or play a ToS or ever use AoE when there's a lowbie nearby that can potentially ruin shit for you. :uhrr:

Here's the thing; why the heck should I have to care about not ganking suicidal lowbies? That's artificial bullshit. It doesn't help "PvP morals" at all.

Na, TBH you are kinda right. It really all depends how it is implemented. If it is a 10 level range before penalty, there wont be any problems. The mobs will wipe out any would be griefers well before they got to you, unless they were damn dedicated and damn pissed at you about something.

Who knows, really. I wont really care if I turn orange on accident anyways. If you get griefed excessively, l2report maybe...who knows.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 10:41:42 AM
Actually, your last 500 posts have pretty much been shit. You actually think some people are carebears when really we just hate design ramifications and changes based on a vocal minority that effect the gameplay of people who like professionally designed content more than CREATE UR OWN content. There's a reason I always have a REAL skill-based game (for example, MGO right now) to play along with an MMOG. It's because people of your kind that think FFA PVP is the shit are just the most untolerable fucking people in gaming.

I mean seriously, learn to play another instrument. You suck at this one.

Edit: By the way, if MMOG designers didn't take the short-sighted jackhammer approach to development, odds are none of these posts would have been made from either of us. Unfortunately, Funcom - like every other company, nearly - has decided to let the PvE game suffer due to imba in PVP. Which is, admittedly through no fault of you or I, THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT. Unfortunately, you seem to keep trying to validate it. Which means you do things like call me a carebear (which couldn't be further from the truth) and sit around validating such design decisions. Essentially, your entire minority needs to shut the fuck up and go away until developers can get their head out of the fucking sand.

Had a decent response, but your edit got me.

Usually I try to be less like sinji, more like Hoax/Nija kinda guy...but something about FFA arguments get me going like the incredible fuckin hulk.

I'll chill a bit on the 'carebear' slinging and stuff.

EDIT: Jeez schildy, WTF does a guy gotta do around here for a grief title  :drill:


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 10:44:21 AM
You don't want to be like Nija. He's an exploitive, griefing jackass with a completely singular playstyle. If you want to be more like Hoax, go play spreadsheets in space.

But the problem is, you actually think I'm a carebear when I'm on a PvE server specifically because I want to BUILD A CITY AND THEN GO PVP IN THE BORDER KINGDOMS. I pvped as much as ANYBODY in SWG. I, in fact, built my entire city placement around easy access to PVP. But shortsighted design decisions fucked all of that up (I'm talking way prior to NGE).

Point being, you are indeed a generic frothing mouthbreather and need to tone that shit the fuck back. Also, cluebat, motherfucker.

Edit: We give grief titles to people we like and people we devestatingly hate, not one-note predictable white noise.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Miasma on June 13, 2008, 10:45:40 AM
I like my PvP in first person shooters where it belongs.  I can tolerate MMO PvP when it gets stripped away and turned into a crappy FPS type thing via battlegrounds but it's not very fun.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 13, 2008, 10:51:26 AM
Who knows, really. I wont really care if I turn orange on accident anyways. If you get griefed excessively, l2report maybe...who knows.

Contradictions ftw.

PVP'ers, man where do I begin. First off you're the minority and when I say minority I don't mean more people like pve I mean there's like...10 of you. Now I don't mean people who enjoy pvp, no there are 'millions' of people who enjoy pvp. I myself love pvp(and here's the important part) on occassion, you see i play call of duty, medeal of honor before that, I play team fortress and the occasional mmo pvp and you know what? it's fun. On occasion it may even be considered a skill but then you have pvp'ers.

pvp'ers don't want skill based fair pvp, they want to gank. Oh, they say it's gank or be ganked, they say they don't mind other players having the ability to screw them over but that's not what they want and that's not what they believe will ever happen with regularity.  They want to fuck people over, plain and simple. There could be a myriad of reasons for it really, who knows and that's not really the point. What is the point is that you, pvp'ers are walking contradictions. You hide behind the labels of skill and fair but in the end you're only hurting yourselves.

First pvp'ers will say they want pure open no rules pvp and then when rules are introduced, they find ways to fuck people over within those rules. Then, when you say you don't like the rules it's lrn2play gtfo. It's a huge contradiction and in the end you are failing to realize your true desires, why not just say "i'd like to fuck people over, make a game where that's my objective" and boom you'll have nirvanah.

MMO will always be a horrible place for 'meaningful' pvp plain and simple. MMO's are never balanced, be it classes(i wonder how many tos are on the pvp servers) or be it gear which does NOT take skill to aquire. If you are playing an mmo for pvp you are doing it wrong, if you want to whip out that digi-cock and say you're the man then do so in other made for conflict games but in an mmo it only gives you negative points.

You, the pvp'er are the extreme minority and the shame is, you're also the loudest.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Viin on June 13, 2008, 10:52:58 AM
The pvp hate is funny. I'm actually on Slayerik's side - I think if you can't handle figuring out how to survive in the system without a tutorial telling you everything you should do, then it's not for you. And that's OK. But some of us actually enjoy exploring the system (pvp and pve) and learning it's ins and outs. Stale, simple systems are boring. Deep multi-branched systems are interesting. (Caveat: as long as they are logical and make some sort of sense - complexity for complexity's sake is retarded).

And that's why there is segregation. No big deal, that's just the way it is.

Also, no we aren't all into ganking. We just like to participate in a system where things can be surprise vs everything structured into some kinda online football game.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 10:55:34 AM
Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 11:02:02 AM
You don't want to be like Nija. He's an exploitive, griefing jackass with a completely singular playstyle. If you want to be more like Hoax, go play spreadsheets in space.

But the problem is, you actually think I'm a carebear when I'm on a PvE server specifically because I want to BUILD A CITY AND THEN GO PVP IN THE BORDER KINGDOMS. I pvped as much as ANYBODY in SWG. I, in fact, built my entire city placement around easy access to PVP. But shortsighted design decisions fucked all of that up (I'm talking way prior to NGE).

Point being, you are indeed a generic frothing mouthbreather and need to tone that shit the fuck back. Also, cluebat, motherfucker.

Edit: We give grief titles to people we like and people we devestatingly hate, not one-note predictable white noise.

Oh I have played Eve for years. I like my fantasy setting FFA PVP though, sorry.

Problem with you is you judge a server type that you haven't played on. You can say as much as you want that you 'know how its going to be' but you don't.

You are just as predictable, but in your self-rightous own ways. There is your cluebat, motherfucker.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 11:02:29 AM
That's the PvP+ mindset.
You may not like it but it has dignity. It reeks of trolling but it's just a way of playing games. Which is 100% optional when a game has 2 different kind of servers.

I think people fail to understand that PvP+ servers/rulesets (not just in Conan) are supposed to be PAINFUL. There is NO WAY any kind of PVP+ experience can be easy, relaxing, peaceful, predictable. Basically, when you embark on a PvP+ experience you don't don't DON'T argue about the rules. It's a different beast and your opinion isn't requested. Rules are there, wrong or right fair or unfair it doesn't matter anymore. Rules are there and you play by it knowing in advance it will be glorious and painful.

I know some of you will never understand this but if you think you are a PvP+ kind of player, hence you want to play on a PvP+ server, check your whine-o-meter. If it scores anything over zero then you should think again. No matter how much you want to bend it, PvP+ is not for you.

Seriously, I am not trying to offend anyone or giving out badges. I am the disfunctional one, as such mindset got shaped back in the days when complaining was not an option (it was "play like this or don't play at all"), I just think that some people think they like the idea of open pvp, but when they face it and truly understand what it means, it's too late to admit they were wrong so the complaining or "constructive criticism" kicks in. PvP+ players are indeed half-masochists and they are ok with the rules of such servers, because everything adds to the challenge. Conan is great because it offers (it should) a fair amount of controlled and consensual PvP content even on PvE server. So just DON'T roll on PvP servers if you are not ready for pain. It sounds harsh but it's exactly how it is, and in my opinion it's exactly how it is supposed to be.

Whoever rolls a toon on a PvP+ server/game and starts complaining about anything is like someone going to a BDSM club for the first time thinking he/she knows it all plus it's a very cool thing to do, only to get all moral and leave in terror and disgust when things get serious and blood starts flowing. They don't have a clue about what they really want.



P.S: Yes, we are the minority. So what?

EDIT, cause I read it later: Lakov, your post is so full of fail it doesn't even deserve a reply. Geez, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor and Team Fortress in the same sentence with PvP? You sound clueless.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 11:04:22 AM
Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.

Generalize much? Jesus christ.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 11:06:09 AM
Schild, don't be clueless and generic you too. You should know that you are out of your element when it comes to open PvP.

"I read the book, saw the movie" isn't the same thing that actually doing it.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: tazelbain on June 13, 2008, 11:09:11 AM
I think its funny to call AoC a PvP game when the PvP end game hasn't patched on to most of the servers.

EDIT:  Wrong thread, please mentally copy and paste this message into the other AoC is awesome/sucks threads.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 11:12:20 AM
Falconeer, you totally missed the point, which I didn't expect. There are changes being made to the way classes work because of the PVP servers. The players on those servers and the servers themselves should be totally ignored in regards to OP and Imba. It should be based off the PvE game since that is the _VAST_MAJORITY_ not just a small number - but VAST MAJORITY - of what is going on. The mindset just makes people sound retarded on forums because they constantly feel the need to talk and defend their positions. Funcom is in the wrong here for listening to that subset. I'm not saying the PVPers are wrong. They're just predictable and frothy.

Edit:
Quote
P.S: Yes, we are the minority. So what?

In short, you don't get to vote. This isn't real life. This is a business. One where minority and majority make ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. Minorities should be treated as they are, not worth enough money to matter.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Viin on June 13, 2008, 11:17:07 AM
Viin, in a utopian society maybe. But you just coughed up more bullshit in 10-12 sentences than I could've in a year. PVPers are the first ones to whine when something is OP or totally imba. They're the first ones to whine when nerfed. And they're the first ones to whine when they're ignored. They're loud, obnoxious and know jackfuckshitall about actual design. They don't "get it" and nor do they want to. They want to be catered to and loved by devs and want to shit on all the other players. If for even one moment you think otherwise, you haven't read official forums or a PVP Guilds forums and are, indeed, doing it wrong. God knows I think you're fucking fantastic, but you're absolutely deluded here. Unless you meant to post it in the Eve forum.

I agree a lot of PvPers are asshats and whine like babies. But then, there's always some group of players who whine the loudest .. which is why I avoid game forums in general.

When you have pvp built into (on top of, part of) a primarily pve game: yes, you will see this. Most changes are done in relation to the PvE game (it is the majority of the players after all) often with not-thought-of consequences for the PvP game they "supposedly" support.

Changing skill/item balance means you have to re-figure out how to kick Class B's ass with a Class D character in Situation Y. In general, PvE players only have to worry about one side of the equation (themselves), so they don't get as annoyed by it. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but any "group" of players you find that has a high ratio of teenagers and asshats to mature players is going to look bad to everyone else. Doesn't matter if it's WoW, EVE, AoC, chess, checkers, or Risk.

That doesn't mean *all of us* are asshats, it's just that a lot of the vocal pvper's are.

In short, you don't get to vote. This isn't real life. This is a business. One where minority and majority make ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. Minorities should be treated as they are, not worth enough money to matter.

Then why have a PVP+ server at all? If they aren't going to support the playstyle then they shouldn't have even bothered.

Edit: From a business standpoint, I'd be curious to know if AoC would have the reputation appeal it does if it launched and marketed without any PvP (including guild, etc on PvE servers).


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 11:18:09 AM
Quote
Then why have a PVP+ server at all? If they aren't going to support the playstyle then they shouldn't have even bothered.

PVP+ servers are humanity's last hope to quarantine those motherfuckers.

Edit: Actually, I agree. They shouldn't have bothered.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 11:23:44 AM
I'd really like to see how many thousands of AoC players are on PVP servers now. Since we are such a minority and don't even deserve having our input into a PvP game.

Maybe, just maybe, this game was designed to retain a solid niche of players...those liking MMO PVP. Maybe Funcom had the foresight (lol) to know that when it comes to PVE guys, they would lose them to WOTLK or w/e. The game was always advertised as brutal, mature, bloody. Claiming they should just overlook PVP balance in a game that will (someday) have a PVP endgame is some of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say dude. Get a grip.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 13, 2008, 11:25:27 AM
If that was the plan, every server would have been PVP+ or at least everywhere outside of town would've been PVP. But, oh, hey, that's not the situation. Shock. Awe. Balance is never coming. It's just completely unrealistic. Too many classes, not to mention balance has no place in MMOGs, not like you would be happy with at least. Inevitable truths, etc.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Viin on June 13, 2008, 11:28:48 AM
Actually, with the guild PVP stuff that could be what they were originally planning. The end-game could very well be guild driven game play.

Depending on how well that is received by the PvE servers, it could dictate what that end game is. If everyone hates it and they just want to do raids, then I bet we get a PvE expansion in a year. We'll see how it pans out.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 11:30:35 AM
Oh hey, I didn't miss points. I probably derailed, which is different. of course I wish for a functioning and possibly balanced PvP server/mechanic. But if this can't be the case, and a known PvP+ players tell you learn2playn00b then you should know it's not forum trolling. It's an hymn to what he is. Like it or not, minority exists and are often proud of their ways. That is what I was, pompously, trying to explain.

Personally, I am the same kind of player Slayerik is. Just without the l33t and the proud parts. Sign that in our sekrit super-minority loud club there's room for differences.
And no, doesn't matter how sensible your ears are to the PvP-Masoch voices. They are not the loudest nor the most obnoxious players out there. Not in my experience.
Nerf a raider, he'll squeal like a live animal being skinned. And they come in packs.
Nerf a PvPer, he'll adapt. Which was the whole point of the original l2play.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 13, 2008, 12:11:41 PM
The game started as PvP. The "endgame" for most of the game was intended to be PvP. As such, balancing the PvP first makes sense. But only in that context.

It's better than balancing the PvE and pissing off the PvPers you managed to attract with PvP that is at least trying something different than Arenacraft.

Whether it turns out better, or some chunk of the players leave, time will tell.

But there isn't much precedent for it as far as I can tell, not on the RPG side anyway.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 13, 2008, 12:18:37 PM
AoC is as much a pvp game as EQ or wow, period.

Don't try to pretend it's mature or bloody or anything different. Omg you can cut someone's head off and there's tits...oh and the quest text was changed from kidnapped and tortured to kidnapped and raped. omg so adult.

MMO's are NOT pvp games, they are pve designed games with PVP switches and do you know why? because pve makes them money.

Now, some people are have differing opinions, they love to catass to 80 on the most overpowered flavor of the month class, they love to constantly reroll or re-spec to give them that little edge to pwn teh newbs. Some people love to grief and gank and tell people to lrn2play. That's fine, it's a big world and everyone has their opinions.

here's the part that blows you frigging mind:serious pvp'ers in mmo's are exactly the same as non pvp'ers.

you see it's all about time sinks and what we choose do to with them. I've heard slayerik say he hates rep grins but i bet you the minute tos get the nerf stick hard he will reroll to something better and that's ok. for pvp'ers it will always be flavor of the month or adapting and spending your time maxxing talents or grinding honor or getting corpse camped all day. For pve'ers its farming and raiding and gathering consumables and rep grinding. They are both different in their ways but also both timesinks and how people wish to spend their time.

There are however several problems with this co-existance. First off balance, it is highly improbable to ever balance anything when it comes to a game involving both pve-pvp, can't do it. Oh you can come close but it'll never be an equal play experience I.E all classes equally viable and useful and not needing three diff sets of gear. 

the pvp'ers say balance be damned because to them it just means rolling up another class or re-speccing and they like that. and the pve'ers believe balance is everything because to them it is.

None of this is anything you don't know but I think the biggest point of contention and what people don't understand is that if you want a game to be successful you have to make, design and yes balance it for pve first. pvp is and will always be a minority and one of aoc's major failings is it's trying to be everything to everyone, anyone who plays can tell it was designed as a stock pve game first but marketed as 'teh hardcore' later.

edit:darniaq, you say the game was built as pvp first? i call bullshit, everything from the ground up screams its another eq clone. it was 'marketed' as a pvp game perhaps but that was funcom pissing on your head and telling you it was raining.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Morfiend on June 13, 2008, 12:25:50 PM
I am just worried that they are trying to implement all this big shit, when so much of the core game is still not working correctly. Many class feats are so horrible or just straight up dont work. Core crafting elements are broken.

They really need to get all the class feats working first, and THEN start balancing. Otherwise its a moot point.

I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 13, 2008, 12:27:29 PM
I am just worried that they are trying to implement all this big shit, when so much of the core game is still not working correctly. Many class feats are so horrible or just straight up dont work. Core crafting elements are broken.

They really need to get all the class feats working first, and THEN start balancing. Otherwise its a moot point.

I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.

Agreed completely. I find the entire idea behind PvP consequences intriguing, but seriously. Fix your shit first.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Miasma on June 13, 2008, 12:31:34 PM
The majority of people are going to hit level 80 within the next couple months, they are scrambling to try and give them something to do so they don't quit.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: squirrel on June 13, 2008, 12:31:51 PM
I really like this game, but I will leave if they dont start fixing the broken shit in the game before they start adding a lot more stuff.

Yup. PVP is irrelevant when the core game is fucked.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: d4rkj3di on June 13, 2008, 12:32:48 PM
I'm fully confident that everything on the list in the press release will be bugged/broken/exploitable anyway. And I'll continue to play right on through, happily entranced by boobs and decapitations.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Morfiend on June 13, 2008, 12:33:54 PM
The majority of people are going to hit level 80 within the next couple months, they are scrambling to try and give them something to do so they don't quit.

I understand this. Very well. But they have started putting balance notes in the patches, and I would say upward of 30% of the feats in the game are ether completely broken as in dont work AT ALL, or are so pathetic as to have 0 impact.

If they start balancing now, its going to throw everything out of wack for when this shit does work.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 13, 2008, 12:44:57 PM
blah EQ WoW switches blah.

Clueless much. I guess you were gone fishing when MMORPGs first came out. So, clueless. As in you really don't know what you are talking about but you like the sound of your clueless fingers typing. Stop making a fool of yourself.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 13, 2008, 12:45:09 PM
you see it's all about time sinks and what we choose do to with them. I've heard slayerik say he hates rep grins but i bet you the minute tos get the nerf stick hard he will reroll to something better and that's ok. for pvp'ers it will always be flavor of the month or adapting and spending your time maxxing talents or grinding honor or getting corpse camped all day. For pve'ers its farming and raiding and gathering consumables and rep grinding. They are both different in their ways but also both timesinks and how people wish to spend their time.

Don't fucking tell me what I'd do in a game. I don't reroll shit. I rolled ToS cause I liked the idea of it (i never even played Beta) and when it gets nerfed, I'll still be playing it because its a cool class. I'll be fighting with my friends so it doesn't matter if I'm nerfed to oblivion I'll still make myself a useful part of the team, you can count on that.

I don't have the hours to re-roll even if I did wanna 'chase the OP' - WTF is the point anyways? You know how many classes I had in Wow? One, a priest.

UO - Tank mage like everyone :)
Neocron - PSI mage
SB - Mino Barbarian
AO - Meta Physicist

Anyways.....
I stick with what I roll. For better or worse. Especially now that I have a 40 hr/week job, a wife and 2 kids.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this year, anyone got any details on that?  :-)


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: shiznitz on June 13, 2008, 01:06:19 PM
Yeah, I'm an ass.

I'm usually so surrounded by so much PvE love here I get a little pissy at times. My last like 5 posts have pretty much been shit.

Everyone got annoyed by your flame but me. I thought it was all in good forum fun.

That out of the way, I was trying to point out how AEs - something that AoC thrives on as opposed to what was a throwaway spell in UO - will destroy the fugitive system as currently described.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Threash on June 13, 2008, 01:19:00 PM
Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this month, anyone got any details on that?  :-)

Fixed it for ya, you messed up on the scary part.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Tarami on June 13, 2008, 01:28:31 PM
Anyways, I heard they're implementing this fugitive system in Conan later this month, anyone got any details on that?  :-)

Fixed it for ya, you messed up on the scary part.
Ignorance is bliss. :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Kirth on June 13, 2008, 03:19:22 PM
Here I'll give you a glimpse of the future, a random note from a patch after the fugitive system goes in:

Quote
  • Players were receiving hits on there fugitive rating when sending or receiving a tell from a lower level player. This should be fixed now.

Drastic Enhancements Coming!   :drill:


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 13, 2008, 03:32:26 PM
edit:darniaq, you say the game was built as pvp first? i call bullshit, everything from the ground up screams its another eq clone. it was 'marketed' as a pvp game perhaps but that was funcom pissing on your head and telling you it was raining.

I said the game "started" as PvP. No idea when they switched to the more PvE-centric approach that launched, but I suspect it was around when WoW hit the three million mark in US+EU territories. They also completely changed the first part of the game sometime in early 2007 to be more casual-inviting. Lots and lots of changes.

What is today feels like a diku clone.

Your other stuff about PvP is mostly spot on if you just concentrate on the PvP activity of fighting. What I was referring to the motivation behind PvP at all. Sure you don't need any per se. Throw some Arenas and a point system and the players will glom right on, bitching about fotm and gear all the way. But AoC was trying for something deeper, things like resource control, fighting over cities you built, etc. None of that made launch. None of that may ever actually make the game itself. They may find their audience only wants PvE with the occasional ganking. This could go any number of ways.

There's no one type of player any more than there is only one type of PvP. If there was, WoW would have them all and no new game would ever need be.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: LK on June 14, 2008, 11:28:05 AM
Quote
The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific "wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Oh hay.  http://travian.wikia.com/wiki/World_Wonder


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: schild on June 14, 2008, 02:55:49 PM
Quote
The alliances can also fight over, and build, culture-specific "wonders of the world”, with a direct link to higher powers! As part of the system Funcom will also facilitate larger amounts of players in massive battles.

Oh hay.  http://travian.wikia.com/wiki/World_Wonder

Wonders have been around in RTS and Civ games far longer than Travian had them. Not to mention they were, technically, the endgame in those a swell


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 15, 2008, 11:55:55 PM
More on PvP massive battles numbers, Legendary Battlekeeps, Alliances and customized flags and cloaks. (http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi?func=publish.show&table=CONTENT&func_id=2533&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Clan_of_Conan&utm_content=issue17)

Quote
Kingship revealed - Huge upgrade planned!
Posted: - 13.06.2008

We will be doing a lot of improvements and additions to Age of Conan in the weeks to come, and we will be sure to tell you about it. But let’s also take this opportunity to gaze deeper into the glass ball, to see what awaits us in the future – later this year!

Okay, so we’re not ready to give you all the juice on it just yet – this is, after all, some months away from going in the game. But we want to lift the veil a little bit, as we feel that this is such a powerful community builder that it deservers some anticipation!

The tentative name for this update is Kingship, but that might change as we move close to patching it onto the servers. This is basically an update that will introduce some very groundbreaking new features into Age of Conan, such as guild alliances, legendary battlekeeps, and so-called Wonders of the World. And some other, secret stuff!

The Kingship upgrade will also be rooted in the Powerpoints system, and we will be introducing several new features and content. Here is some of what you can expect!

Guild alliances

We want to allow guilds to get together and form alliances, creating strong accumulations of power that can take on some of the biggest challenges on the server, and we will be employing various tools for them to create a strong common identity for the alliance.

Here is a list of some of those tools:
Alliance flag – you will be able to acquire a flag that you can carry around on your back, and this flag can be customized for you alliance.
Alliance cloak – you will also be able to acquire a cloak that you can customize for your alliance, showing everyone what gathering you hail from.
Alliance chat – of course, just as with guilds you will be able to share a common chat channel with all members of all the guilds in the alliance.
Alliance name – you will be able to select a name for the alliance, and that name will be shown after your guild name and your character name.
A guild alliance will be quite a political entity, and this among other things involves holding elections to choose alliance leaders and such. Rest assured, guild alliances will have plenty of tools at their disposal when they set out to conquer the known world!

Legendary battlekeeps

Already in the game your guild have the opportunity to build player cities and eventually also conquer battlekeeps. We will, of course, be improving these functionalities as well as we move ahead in the coming months. Kingship will also expand on this feature.

Situated next to the three big cities – Conarch, Khemi and Tarantia – will be something called legendary battlekeeps. Massive constructions that can be seen from inside the major cities themselves, and there will only be three of these in total in the online world – one for each capitol city. Conquering these battlekeeps will be the ultimate challenge!

Guilds will effectively have to team up with each other and become alliances if they want to have any chance of conquering a legendary battlekeep. These will be gigantic battles, and we are aiming for over 300 players to be involved in the battle simultaneously!

That also means we will be doing some technical improvements to the massive battle system to allow for this great number of players in one battle at the same time.

Wonders of the World

These battlekeeps will all have different benefits to provide the alliance that owns it, and they will all be visually very different from each other. You can customize and build upon your legendary battlekeep, just as you would with the “ordinary” battlekeeps.

Another feature we will be introducing with this upgrade is Wonders of the World. These are powerful constructions rooted deep in the identity of that nation (e.g. the “Golden Lion of Tarantia” for Aquilonia) and they look epic and magnificent. Each nation has two of these wonders, and they can be built in the legendary battlekeep for that nation.

Building these wonders is a huge effort for anyone in the alliance, and will involve a lot of team work. Once you have built the shell of the wonder in your legendary battlekeep, other guild alliances can steal it and bring it to their city – so you need to protect it!

The benefits of owning one, two or more of these wonders (can you steal all of them?) is beyond anything you can imagine, but those details are to be revealed at another time!


Looks a few days old but I missed it.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2008, 12:12:22 AM
More...

Quote
First off, we are introducing a dueling functionality. This allows players to duel each other, both on PvP and PvE servers, without any serious repercussions. It also allows players on PvE servers to engage in PvP without having to go into the PvP mini-games, allowing them to test their grit (or solve an argument) against each other directly!

Other changes you will observe are for instance improvements to the “charge” ability that all soldier classes have. If you charge someone you will stun them, making it much more useful. Casters will also see major improvements, so keep your eyes out for more news!


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: WindupAtheist on June 16, 2008, 01:19:36 AM
Schild digs Age of Conan.  Conan decides to include old-school gankfest PVP complete with a barely-retouched version of the UO murder count system.  Schild proceeds to get into "lol carebear" fights with guys like Slayerik and Sinij after they call him a pussy for not wanting to partake of it.

WUA laughs.  And laughs.  And laughs.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: lamaros on June 16, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
Schild digs Age of Conan.  Conan decides to include old-school gankfest PVP complete with a barely-retouched version of the UO murder count system.  Schild proceeds to get into "lol carebear" fights with guys like Slayerik and Sinij after they call him a pussy for not wanting to partake of it.

WUA laughs.  And laughs.  And laughs.

It disturbs me that someone I disagee with so completely on many things is on the same page so often.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 16, 2008, 05:15:25 AM
lol.

On Falc's note:
Quote
...Massive constructions that can be seen from inside the major cities themselves, and there will only be three of these in total in the online world – one for each capitol city.

...You can customize and build upon your legendary battlekeep, just as you would with the “ordinary” battlekeeps.

Need more infoz on Battlekeeps. How do we build our own if there's only three in the world? This like the UO telewarping rush to the 13 castles allowed per facet per shard? Or is a Battlekeep assumed to be a serverwide thing? Or is it just a meta city with different guilds building their own part of it (and therefore requiring the deconstruct whatever they've built elsewhere)?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Nerf on June 16, 2008, 05:32:16 AM
I read it like a keep on DAOC, where it can change hands if someone else wants to take it.  Wonders read like relics to me.

ZOMG CONAN IS STEALING SHIT FROM DAOC SOMEONE SHOULD SUE THEM FOR NOT HAVING ORIGINAL IDEAS.

Really though, it sounds awesome, and if they fix assassin's they could be a real asset in pvp on the pve servers, since noone bothers with perception.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: WindupAtheist on June 16, 2008, 05:36:19 AM
I get the impression lots of peeps can build "ordinary" battlekeeps, but that there will only be three "legendary" ones.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Nerf on June 16, 2008, 05:59:35 AM
Battlekeeps are in the border regions, which are the pvp areas on every server connected to the resource zones where your normal, unattackable cities live.

The Legendary battlekeeps will be attached to the main cities, they aren't built, they're already there, but I read it as players can build up a city or someshit around the legendary keep.  Wonders can be built by the takers of the legendary keep, give bonuses, and can be stolen by other alliances and moved to their cities.

Thats how I read it, at least.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 16, 2008, 06:06:16 AM
Battlekeeps are in the border regions, which are the pvp areas on every server connected to the resource zones where your normal, unattackable cities live.

The Legendary battlekeeps will be attached to the main cities, they aren't built, they're already there, but I read it as players can build up a city or someshit around the legendary keep.  Wonders can be built by the takers of the legendary keep, give bonuses, and can be stolen by other alliances and moved to their cities.

Thats how I read it, at least.

Since border regions are just copies of resource regions it makes sense. the battlekeeps seem to already be built afaik, hence the big buildings in the center of each resource zone. you'll probably be able to build cities in the border region just like the resource zone but those are the pvp+ cities? seems pretty lazy though since they essentially just made two copies of each and says one is pve one is pvp.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Nerf on June 16, 2008, 06:17:52 AM
I don't think they'll stay carbon copies forever, it's quite obvious that pvp was tossed in at the last moment and not really fleshed out, and copying the resource zone was just the easiest way to get the border kingdoms in at launch.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 16, 2008, 06:29:47 AM
I don't think they'll stay carbon copies forever, it's quite obvious that pvp was tossed in at the last moment and not really fleshed out, and copying the resource zone was just the easiest way to get the border kingdoms in at launch.

That's my theory as well.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Falconeer on June 16, 2008, 06:45:21 AM
Since border regions are just copies of resource regions it makes sense. the battlekeeps seem to already be built afaik, hence the big buildings in the center of each resource zone. you'll probably be able to build cities in the border region just like the resource zone but those are the pvp+ cities? seems pretty lazy though since they essentially just made two copies of each and says one is pve one is pvp.

Maybe I read what you wrote wrong, but as far as I know, Battlekeeps aren't build yet. If you go into any border kingdom now you'll see the three sposts to build a battlekeep as empty as the ones you use to build a PVE city.

It works like this: the first 9 guilds on every server to build a Tier 3 keep can claim a battlekeep. Just because they have a tier 3 keep, as simple as that. Now, they claimed the LAND where the battlekeep will be. They have to start building it exactly as a PvE player city! Still, in this state, you can be challeneged. When that happens you have to set a date and time for the siege, which sounds weird as you won't probably have much built to defend, but that is how it is supposed to work.

Thing is, other guilds/alliances need a Tier 3 keep too, to challenge your battlekeep. So, the scenario will be like this:

8 guilds hit T3 and cliam the 8 BK empty spots. They start building on it (to get the bonuses) and as soon as the ninth guild hit T3 they'll want to challenge one of the occupied BKs. It doesn't matter if the BK is fully built or not, only difference is that the more of a BK is built, the easier it is for the defending guild to... defend it.
Anyway, this whole mechanic is a good reason enough to race towards the T3 keep.

I have no idea how legendary BKs will work, I can only assume it will be an instance accessible by the 3 capitols for sieging purposes only (or showing off/sightseeing).


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 16, 2008, 08:31:28 AM
Keep battles sound like city battles from SB. If I recall, you could waste anyone's tiny town whenever you wanted, but had to schedule a bane/tree event for he most improved cities. Going by vague memory here so I'm probably wrong. But if not, then the only difference between what AoC will be and what SB was is that in AoC you need to schedule all Keep assaults.

I can see players stocking up now for the inevitable land rush that follows, so they can build a Keep and other buildings/walls all roughly at the same time before getting attacked.

What we don't know is the details like:

How long do the recipients of a siege letter get before they need to respond?
Can they back out by paying off the attacker?
What if any are penalties for a failed siege?
What prevents siege spamming?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 16, 2008, 08:45:44 AM
Yeah, I'm an ass.

I'm usually so surrounded by so much PvE love here I get a little pissy at times. My last like 5 posts have pretty much been shit.

Everyone got annoyed by your flame but me. I thought it was all in good forum fun.

That out of the way, I was trying to point out how AEs - something that AoC thrives on as opposed to what was a throwaway spell in UO - will destroy the fugitive system as currently described.

The creators already said that "Checking your fire" was part of the game play they wanted players to manage. In fact, they said that even in the massive PvP sieges, that anyone not in your raid group, but on your side, will be able to be hit by you. Again, its part of the game they want players to mange themselves.

Its part of the gameplay of the game. Pve server or PvP server, the only change in those two servers is at what point in your toons life you engage in PvP, so any rule that comes out of PvP also apply to the PvE servers, trying to make a separation between the two server types beyond that is faulty.. I understand peoples concern with this, but again i think his response was right, check your fire, there are consequences if you do not. Please recall that in every interview ever, they said this game was patterned more after a FPS, or at least brings more FPS like considerations, and pacing than other RPG's. I think this would be one of them.

I think a lot of people are accustomed to bringing down the hand of god, or nuking with a 20ton mega warhead right in the middle of your own group with no consequences and everyone magically being immune to the death it just brought down in a 3m radius, and this isn't even that, you still have protections up to a point, after that point, you may wish to be careful.

Is it really to much to ask?

Also, i really do not think ONE time will get you a wanted stats, every description has been "Excessive" amounts of it happening. I think of it more like the grief system in Planetside in that regard, you need to really try.

Don't cast Fire field :) l2play
That's completely uncalled for forum trolling.

No, its a valid point. If you don't want to get caught like that...be aware of your surroundings. There is so much fucking handholding in games these days, to me it's refreshing when you basically have to use your head. Don't like it? Stay on your PvE server.

The only real portion where slayer was incorrect, was the PvE server remark...because this rule set will apply there as well.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: slog on June 16, 2008, 08:58:19 AM
Keep battles sound like city battles from SB. If I recall, you could waste anyone's tiny town whenever you wanted, but had to schedule a bane/tree event for he most improved cities. Going by vague memory here so I'm probably wrong. But if not, then the only difference between what AoC will be and what SB was is that in AoC you need to schedule all Keep assaults.

I can see players stocking up now for the inevitable land rush that follows, so they can build a Keep and other buildings/walls all roughly at the same time before getting attacked.

What we don't know is the details like:

How long do the recipients of a siege letter get before they need to respond?
Can they back out by paying off the attacker?
What if any are penalties for a failed siege?
What prevents siege spamming?

While it does vaugely remind me of SB, it sounds more like the Lineage 2 siege system.  Basically, in L2, you had to defend your keep during the weekend for something like 4 hours.  Guilds had to pre-register which side they were one.

That being said, I don't see this working well for 6+ months, if ever.  You can't just throw this stuff together like you would a PvE instance.  It takes a lot of time to flesh out the expoits, and you can't take shortcuts like you can with PvE mobs.  A good example is LOS exploits.  In PvE, you make the mobs teleport.  In PvP, you have to fix the actual problem.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 16, 2008, 12:10:53 PM
Yea, I'm wondering what their timeline is for this.

Quote from: mrbloodworth
Again, its part of the game they want players to mange themselves
I personally love it. I'd actually have extended to everywhere altogether, including group. It reminds me of UO, where you better damned well pay attention.

They'd only need to make a few spells single target to balance it out. Or better yet, single target line of sight with manual targeting. I still don't get why games that have collision detection don't do this. Processor intensive? Aren't arrows line of sight manual targeting in AoC already? Man I gotta break beyond my Mage and Priest love...


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 16, 2008, 12:12:11 PM
i love it too. i was wondering if anyone read my post, lol.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Brogarn on June 16, 2008, 12:19:58 PM
i love it too. i was wondering if anyone read my post, lol.

I read it and it sounds cool to me as well. I'm not an FFA PvP'er, but I was absolutely in love with RvR. This added bit of managing your spells or whatever depending on your surroundings is at the very least, intriguing.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 16, 2008, 12:34:51 PM
i have to say this game doesnt seem to be designed well with friendly fire in mind. it seems like every caster is loaded down with aoe's and what about melee swinging their big broadswords? im not against the idea of friendly fire, i do like it but could it really work well with all the spells and abilities in aoc as is?


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 16, 2008, 01:16:56 PM
Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Slayerik on June 16, 2008, 02:01:26 PM
i have to say this game doesnt seem to be designed well with friendly fire in mind. it seems like every caster is loaded down with aoe's and what about melee swinging their big broadswords? im not against the idea of friendly fire, i do like it but could it really work well with all the spells and abilities in aoc as is?

Sounds like it requires practiced tactics / skills. Use your knockbacks/stuns/aoe roots to keep range.

and makes single target DPS quite valuable as well if someone breaks the ranks. DD nukes and rangers could be key in battles due to not wanting to nuke your friends. This is all in theory at this point, but...hmmmmmm


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 16, 2008, 05:04:41 PM
Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.

Green plz. Pure casters in other games melee when everyone else is dead and they don't want to go down without a fight. And even then it's usually evadeevadeevade because few games require casters to train in the weapons they only need for the stat adjustments anyway.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Threash on June 16, 2008, 05:15:42 PM
Remember that that dagger or whatever in a casters hand is not useless as in other games.

Green plz. Pure casters in other games melee when everyone else is dead and they don't want to go down without a fight. And even then it's usually evadeevadeevade because few games require casters to train in the weapons they only need for the stat adjustments anyway.

That was his point i think.  I havent played a caster in aoc but i think hes saying swinging your staff/dagger isnt a total waste of time.


Title: Re: Massive update (PvP in June)
Post by: Venkman on June 16, 2008, 05:46:38 PM
Shit, you know what i missed? The "as in other games", the "as" part. Take that out (or ignore it, as in my case) and it sounds like sarcasm.

Here's me, going to lern2read.