f13.net

Yeah, I know I had to get past bunnies killing me in UO, but that was then and this is now.  I tried the Eve trial and eventually got turned off.  I got to the point where I was supposed to destroy some pirate base that was guarded by a bunch of pirates and I just had one gun to choose from.

I was very underwhelmed. For all the PvP stuff I heard, it was super boring.  Maybe the good stuff comes later in the game, but it's really hard to lure a PvPer in if the interactivity isn't there from the beginning.  I got into AC1 beta and quit it, even though I was friends (from UO) with one of the most legendary AC1 PvPers.  It wasn't until a guildmate took it up and convinced me to stay that I stayed for a long time, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered.

MMOs just deal out powers and weapons too slowly for my type.  I love persistance, but I also love choices and combos.  Why do you turn me into a retard just because I'm a newbie?  Give me the ability to do everything and let me develop my own damn skill.  I know I can't afford some super badass ship, but if you are going to make me fight 8 pirates, give me something better to do than wait and watch 2 minutes between kills and picking new targets.

I still think there is room for a game where you get a "complete" character upon finishing the design.  A game of heroes, where you start your adventures as one.  I guess that's similar to later UO, where many didn't venture out until they were 7xGMs.

You saw the pve tutorial. If you want some pvp, hook up with some people in the f13 channel, fit a tackling frig and join up with whoever is doing pvp.

Eve uses time based advancement, so maybe that's not your thing. I'd suggest you try some pvp with a disposable tackling frig and if you like that, you can perhaps look into buying a older character. I don't know anything about buying chars but I'm sure somebody around here can help you out if you want.

IMO, just like any other MMO, it's pretty much crap if played solo, and quite good if you're playing with good people.

I mean, it looks ok but the UI is cumbersome and there are bugs now and then.  PVE is not as advanced as in other MMO games, and you're basically waiting for long skills to finish training, and grinding for cash so you can throw it away on ships that will get blown up.   The stuff that looks good that we're talking about all the time here is what we've done as a group:  the wars, the against-the-odds fights won, the bases of operation we've set up, and the commentary on the game, the bigger wars out there, the CSM stuff, etc.

The number one reason I've been really enjoying EvE is that I can play it casually.  I never feel like I need to play for 16 hours on a Saturday just to grind out some rep/gear/points whatever to keep up with everyone else.  If I have real life stuff I'd rather do for a week I don't fall behind because my skills still train.

That combined with the fact that I'm in a fun active corporation (guild), and the game has so many different things I can do has me still playing.

The first thing to do is borrow a little money and get into a bigger ship. (You may need to train some stuff to get into the ship you want, depending on your starting skills). But if you continue through the tutorial you *do* learn some valuable things and if you follow the mission chain you get free ship upgrades. Once you got the basics down you can then start exploring your options (and believe you me, there are billions of options).

The tutorial and starter missions are simple because there is a huge learning curve in EVE, and if you were to just dive right in your head would explode.

One other cool thing about Eve is that if you do want your head to explode, you can buy a character legally.  There is a secure option for doing so.

However from an averages perspective, I think you have to admit you're in the minority.  Many people complain that the newbie experience is too hostile, where you're saying it's too easy.  Head-exploding newbies is generally bad for business, even if there exist certain customer types, like yourself, who want to jump into the deep end.  And even though you say so, I think if you did dive right into (say) battleships, you wouldn't know how or where to drive one and you'd end up losing it.  And (edited to add) in Eve losing your ship (dying?) actually stings, unlike other more pedestrian MMOGs.

EvE is a very slow game.  Travel times.  Ship fitting.  Isk gathering.  Hide and go seek nature of small fleet combat. Its pretty satifying to get kills, but a ton of prep work goes into it.

Yeah if you are looking for instant gratification of any kind just go away now.  Best bet would be to come to channel f13 next time you try to give it a shot, mention that you are from the boards and hopefully some of us will be not doing anything that requires us to not pay attention to the chatter channel.  That way you have some people to talk to, you can get some feedback and you can ask questions.  You will have questions. 

Also read the stickies and the links in the stickies and look up more links for the stuff you still dont get.  Trying to play Eve without researching wtf is going on ahead of time is pretty unfun.  If you dont like the idea of a game requiring you to look up 3rd party sources of info stay far far away.

The pve is pretty crap in terms of traditional MMO pve.  The good moneymaking is a separate game from actual ships, its all economy manipulation, trading, buy-high sell-low, scamming, stock trading, IPO's, researching, production, other shit I can't even talk about etc etc etc.  The ship-based pve is just a way to kill time in-game and make some lewtz so you can risk more shit in pvp.

Also if you really can't stand being a newb you may end up needing to buy a character (expensive but legal/secure unlike most games) after you take your newb to L3 missions in Battlecruiser. Because after that its a period of time training up the basic support skills and then working your way into some pvp ships and it sounds like you're one of those people that wont be happy contributing to the greater good in a tackle-frig, ewar or t1-dps cruiser..

That's the only problem I had with the game.  Not because I'm impatient.  It's just because I really don't the time to invest in all the prep work to get to the fleeting moments of fun, unfortunately.

This may sound silly to a lot of people, but with about two weeks of training you can fly all four races' basic cruisers and frigates (poorly.)  That would give you roughly 32 ships to choose from and the only real prerequisite is getting the racial frigate skill to 4 (2 days each) and cruiser skill to 3 (1 day each), then spending a little bit of time training each race's weaponry (1 day for small weapon to l3, 1 more day for medium weapon 3 per race).  There a ton of support skills you'd need to go for immediately after this, but hey, you wanted options.

I agree.  I quit the first 3 times because of this.  Eventually since the game offers the type of fun I crave and that no other game has managed to provide I kept coming back.  You learn how to not waste so much time doing prep work.  Luckily our corp/alliance has very experienced people who are very good at reducing the prep time and also some very dedicated individuals that invest effort into making it so all other players have to do is show up for the fun.  They do that because eve isn't a solo game and more warm bodies = more fun and more kills.

I could give specific advice or tips and tricks I've developed but I think its more of a personal learning thing.

I can't really add much to what has already been said, its all good advice.

What I can say is DON'T buy a character and I will tell you why:

 - You can't pick what the character looks like without paying 10 Euro for the alteration (which is very limited).
 - You can't choose the name, so you could be called pinkfluffybunny, or whatever.
 - Buying a character can also buy their enemies, and low security ratings, so you could be target practice.
 - I personally believe that you don't get the same sense of achievement by not creating and developing the char yourself.
 - If you follow a simple focused skill-build, you can have a 500+ dps battleship pilot in less than 30 days

So its not always a slow process if you focus. Yes the specialisation of T2 this and that takes a long time, but that adds longevity to the game and lets face it, you won't even know what half these things are for a few months of play. A lot of pvp'ers only use cheap ships and fittings for fleet ops, so there isn't any need to have the biggest, baddest ship in the game.


Oh, and YES, it really IS that good!

Disregard everyting pred just said and wanna buy this guy?

http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTc2NTQwOTc1MQ%3D%3D (http://ineve.net/skills/character.php?charID=MTc2NTQwOTc1MQ%3D%3D)

The catch about choices in EVE is that you make them out of game. You compare all weapons, ships, equipment, design setups and THEN you buy the skills and start training for your dream ship.

It's really hard to get into position where you have all the cool choices available in the form or pilotable ships.


1. Because you can actually see how a character looks like anywhere besides 128x128 portrair. And you can fully customize it.
2. You can always buy character with a name you like (and pretend you named it himself).
3. Again, you don't have to buy character -10 Security Standing and 99% characters don't come with any notable personal history. This in fact an extra bonus - if previous owner forgot to tell his buddies he sold the character, you can rejoin it's old alliance/corp and scam the shit of them.
4. Excuse me?! Achievement of setting skill training once a few days?! Progress Quest generates much, much more achievement and personal pride.
5. 500+ dps Battleship sucks. You have to wait for nearly month and in the end you will have an lv30 in equivalent of pimped out, lv70 chars (to use WoW).

Also, the only unique ships happen to be all t2. Interdictors (both heavy and normal), snipers, nanoships, long range tacklers, ultra long range EW and logitics. If you want a ship with unique capabilities, a ship that isn't just raven with +2% to dmg, then t2 are your only choice.
and training for t2 takes ages. You say they will get done in no time, but it doesn't work like that: you would want to fly say Rapier and then realize that you need Minmatar Cruiser trained to lv5. A entire 30 days of painful waiting for your dream ship. You would log every timeand see that the damn thing is still several weeks away. That's how it is and it really sucks. 

Amarr HM:
You surely forgot to add green text. That character...isn't glorious, so to say.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but...


I don't like to go on (oh alright, maybe I do)  :-) but hang on a min... I know I'm no specialist in Eve, or anything like it, but could you imagine how fast a noob would quit eve after getting nailed in his/her shiney new T2 ship because they didnt know how to use it? A properly fit T2 ship costs way more to lose than a 30 day battleship.

I guarantee an experienced pilot with a 5 mill SP char would wipe the floor with a noob with a 20 mill SP char. (oh yeah, there goes another few hundred mill on the +4 or +5 set of implants).

I'm sitting at around 5 million SP myself right now and I still haven't gotten into T2 ships, but I'm pretty satisfied with my combat abilities.  One of my favorite things to fly is a 500+DPS battleship.  Just saying.

Also, I do feel kind of nice that the character I have is one that I've built myself from the ground up.  He's been with me since I started the game.  I imagine buying a high-SP character is like adopting a teenager.

I hope the character you bought comes with the thick end of a billion Isk in liquid cash otherwise PvPing as a noob in t2 ships is going to be a very good way to go bankrupt. Unless you're sticking to smaller stuff like interceptors and AFs (which you could fly with a new character by the time you've earnt the cash to buy one), flying t2 ships in PvP is for the super rich or the super careful. In general you can get comparable performance with a t1 ship a class higher for PvP situations. yeah solo face raping in a HAC is nice but if you haven't learnt your trade the hard way (in cheap t1 cruisers), you'll just be handing free kills to guys in worse ships than you.

I don't get it when people bring up the specific mechanics of advancement in an MMOG and then point to that as why it's better to buy vs build.

I really don't care about the mechanics themselves - the satisfaction comes from the journey.  I don't know why that is.  It's not really logical.  But we humans have some soft spot for seeing an entity* through from being a helpless and hapless newly created thing to a fully fledged member of the cosmos. 

At least, many humans do.  Some just want to get to the pew pew, own it or pronounce it stupid, then move on.


*human, character, pet, work of art, etc

If you can afford a character with t2 skills, you can afford to lose t2 ships too :drill:

As I said, the issue of t1 vs. t2 isn't a matter of OMPH! or power/buck ratio - it's about unique play systems t1 ships simply cannot do at all  (or do soooo badly, you can assume they cannot).

This is what it is for me.  I could afford to buy an uber minmatar character, totally focussed on PvP with 40+ million skill points.  But I prefer sticking with my profoundly flawed 32-million SP character, with his excursions into R&D, industry and defender missiles...  I had him when he only had Caldari frigate IV, and enjoy the narrative of his ascent.

Personally, I'd play as a noob first, because there is plenty of interesting stuff to do in 500dps battleships and tackling frigates that you can fill a couple of months with. After that couple of months you know that either you hate EVE, or you're happy with the slow road, or that buying a character is worthwhile for you.

I'm kind of in the same situation as I keep thinking if it's worth reactivating my eve account.
as OI played it for a bit more than a year in total with some month of pause in between and quitted when wow got released.

After trying the trial I found that it's just going to tell you anything about the current state of the game as I was used to be involved in corp activities.
What just keeps me following that game is the way the devs run that thing. They manage it more and more to make it THAT interactive MMO Universe every sci-fi fan ever could've dreamed of.

I'm more and more thinking about the possibility of just paying for a month during summer holidays and look if I can catch up with some old friends or even dare to test the f13 waters and if I could fit in anywhere.

For Arnold:
What makes or breaks the experience are the guys around you. And as long as you know a little where you want your character to go, I wouldn't buy an older character or at least just a guy with his learning skills maxed (it takes ages before you can do something useful when they're not maxed- and they take ages to max out)

Edit: Wow, my i button gets smashed a little too often...

WTH you talking about ? that character is ideal for any new player he can fly a souped up Raven for PVE and for PvP he isn't far off a Falcon and can fly a Cerb not that a new player can afford such luxuries hes the perfect starter character in that way he can PVE nicely for ISK and isn't far off uber EWAR ship. He's got insane over the top learning skills and +4 implants he's not a minmatar specialist but for someone starting out he's pretty ideal in my opinion. Your like straight in their flying a raven dam if I had time to use him I'd keep the bugger.

Oh and forgot to mention he can fly the Crow for PVP just by discrediting that character in light of the narrative of this thread you've discredited your knowledge of the dynamics of the game.

This is now a call-out thread.

Amarr, you're delusional if you actually think that char is worth a damn as anything but a nice starting point, didn't we go over this already?

Shitty shit gun skills, missile skills, etc, etc.   It's got nice learning skills and cruiser/bs 5 is great, but that char is still a long ways from being worth a damn.

Right I just got back from a scorcher on the beach bit hot and bothered only to read this muck,

This fella Arnold is a new player would you suggest he buys a minmatar HAC specialist? Who the fuck needs gunnery skills when your starting out as "Caldari" that his choice btw. I have already had an offer of 1.5 billion ISK which I turned down cause I reckon I can get more pretty soon his missile skills are going up this month oh and when and where did I even claim he was uber as you call it? Check my posts you might learn something.

He's the perfect starter character hes got near max learning, salvaging, PVE skills can prick around in a Crow for PvP while training up his falcon. All said I trust your opinion on most things but on this I think your slanted and slightly delusional yourself buddy. Too much empire ganking forgot what it feels like to be a noob flying an uber caracal for ISKies?

Easy boys, just agree to disagree here and move the fuck along :)

You both have valid points.

Dammit this is a call-out thread don't ruin it for me I need this thread, man.

In fact, Slay is right: there are valid observations on each side.  The character needs a lot of secondary skills.  But at the same time the long, tedious learning and some of the necessary T1 spaceship command skills are done vOv

I can see CCP grandfathering the learning skills eventually and just giving new players higher starting stats.

Why are mommy and daddy fighting?   :cry:

Guys.... please.... I need this thread.

I think it's interesting that the OP hasn't been back, and may not care  :oh_i_see:

I also think it's interesting that some of you 12 bazillion skill point old school bastards seem to have lost perspective.  Do you not remember this picture?

I can tell you as a newb that T1 has a lot to offer for the new player since we have to go from (if you're lucky) tanking/healing/dpsing to: DPS, armor tank, shield tank, low slots, high slots, mid slots, tackling, gang boosting, remote repping, orbiting, aligning, radial velocity, cap management, and don't forget aggro/deaggro games as relates to gates and stations.  I could go on.


(http://upload.0x1011.org/files/LearningCurve.jpg)

I hadn't bothered to respond to this thread because the OP clearly doesn't care anymore but I'm with Jayce.  I've got 13M+ sp's and I can't actually fly a single t2 hull atm.  I dont regret my training paths at all.

I'm under 30days from being able to fly:
HAC's
HIC's
Interdictors
AF's
'Ceptors

But honestly, what rush is there?  I still make a fuckton of mistakes in pvp every time I go out.  I still don't have such pvp basics as t2 drones, all navi skills to IV, AWU5, rigging, overheat and I'm currently like 3 days from xtraining into Caldari to fly a BB decently, another t1 ship.

I'll admit, I'm pretty much about to switch to t2 hull training in soon, once I have the BB there really isn't any other t1 ship I want except perhaps the Thorax from the other races to complement my Amarr skills.  I would go for the Moa to have a sniper ship if it wasn't so ugly, but plus you can make a mean quasi sniper fit w/ the Zealot, or so I've seen.

Joe is right.  t2 offers some playstyles/abilities that t1 can not but it also offers a chance to lose your shirt in a hurry and look like a clown doing it.  If I wanted t2 I could have had it a long time ago.   I just dont get the obsession with t2 hulls, would you really want to put someone who doesn't have months of pvp and experience flying against them in a 'ceptor?  Let alone a fucking nanoHAC?  Why?  They are going to get pwned quick and hard and its going to make that wallet a lot thinner.  If right off the bat you want to solopwn, no matter what character you buy, your going to T.T /quit because your going to get your balls stomped in pvp for months while you l2p, this game is fucking hard.  If your flying something fast?  Its still hard and its fucking twitch.  Yeah good luck with that when you don't even have the ship names memorized nub.   :awesome_for_real:

Nice Jayce I hope CCP use that diagram in their powerpoint presentations it smacks of awesome and is so on the money. I think this thread is reaching out to the "inner noob" in everyone.

I'm with you Hoax, I've had more fun and far more kills in a battlecruiser than I ever did in my 200M+ Vagas.

Then again, I never could break a 1:1 K/D with BCs..fucking concord.

Concord is OP for sure man.

Any guesses on how many Brutixes I have gotten blown up by them in the last 6 months? :)

If you want to find out whether or not Eve is for you. Join a corp. Eve is a game of self actualization. You will have nothing unless you go out and learn what needs to be done, then do it. There are no goals to achieve but your own, no grind to complete except the one to get your character to the point where you can accomplish your goals. Eve is a Sandbox, not a roller-coaster, castles aren't built if you are only along for the ride.

Figure out why you want to play, join a corporation that does that type of stuff, and then go do it. If you don't you will get bored and quit.

It looks like you are interested in PvP. Join a corp that does PvP, start playing with them, learn the ropes(hopefully) and see how you like it. If you like it, think about what you liked doing and then train accordingly. If you like the fact that your side won even if you died, train ewar skills, especially ECM. If you liked being on top of killmails, train tech 2 guns and larger ships. If you like making sure enemies didn't get a way, or setting up your gang to get the kills train towards minmatar recons and interceptors. If the fights weren't large enough for you, look towards a 0.0 group. If the fights were too large, consider a non-spacing holding corp or empire war dec corp or pirate corp.

Once you have done that and are confident in your ability to play and in your wish to continue, then think about buying a character that does what you want. There is nothing wrong with this. Alternately if you do not mind being laughed at, potentially ostracized, and don't care whether or not its worth the investment then buy a character right away.

The minimum time i would say it would take to get competent if you were playing a lot and had knowledgeable support would be about 2 months with a solid understanding of the rules around 1-2 months in. Keep in mind that no matter how fast you learn and progress in your ability to play the game, you will constantly be learning new things as new facets of the game are made public to you and as changes are made or discovered.

______

A good way to gauge what you are likely to do and so should pursue would be to ask yourself what did you do in AC and UO when you played. Not what did you want to do, but what did you actually do. Did you kill people to see how good you were? Did you kill people to see how bad they were? Did you kill people at all? Did you grind to make sure you were the highest level with the best gear? Did you make stuff? Did you play to be with your friends?

Once you answer that question you will have your answer of what you need to do to make Eve worthwhile, then all you have to do is go do that.

Wise words.

Wise words that have fallen on deaf ears... I don't think Arnie has been back to read his own thread  :roll:

Totally agreed Pred but the thread still lives though Arnold is back playing UO. He is now merely that "Inner Noob" in everyone.

Are there any videos of combat once it gets cool? The tutorial bored me senseless. I never really got a sense of what I was going to be doing once I was all grown up. I get the sense there is a ton of depth to the combat, but they don't do a very good job of showing it.

There are some videos of one of our frigate club ops kicking around - the trip to Delve - but I don't know if that would be exciting or confusing or boring to the outsider...

Two things stuck with me from the frigate ops:

1.  The awesome sound of about 30 frigates (all of us) uncloaking after having just jumped through a gate in unison, to go hunt for targets.
2.  From entering the system to catching a target, less than 20 seconds.

I don't know if PVP is "cool"; the mecanics of fighting, taken by themselves, are boring.  Like sex ed... explained.  When you're in it, though, about to lose your ship or win, it's exciting.

There are plenty, but its going to be had to see the depth of the combat. All of that is fairly esoteric.

The best ones that i like are two by kil2. Who flies various battleships and battlecruisers pretty well. Most of it is pretty standard combat when one guy knows what he is doing and another doesn't. But some of it is pretty spectacular. Armageddon has a clip where he solos an Astarte in a Harbinger while the Astarte has a vagabond friend nearby. And Genesis has a lot of cool fights as well.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/dancetroll/ARMAGEDDON.mkv
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/dancetroll/GENESIS60.mkv

The third is a film some guy in TFC made of a fight around the RIT triangle when RISE was dying.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/ArtCor/ritualite.avi

Which is a damn amazing vid made at a time when the overviews were just getting fixed to be reasonable but you still couldn't remove all the brackets. For those who haven't played. All the squares with orange signs next to them are hostiles. All the x's with oranges signs next to them are hostile drones. If the box is flashing orange the target is targeting you, it its flashing red you are being shot at. Purple indicates gang members. Nothing indicates friendlies in the case(goonswarm). White triangles are wrecks from your alliance. Yellow triangles wrecks from someone elses alliance(so Goon or Rise in this case). Drones that aren't moving were likely owned by a destroyed ship.

Unfortunately i don't have any video from the m-m fight or the fights in BWF because those are both tactically interesting from where I was sitting as well as interesting because its always fun to watch a whole bunch of guys get slaughtered mercilessly

It's unfortunate that combat in this game doesn't tend to look very impressive, but I kind of like this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iZUh8ewNtY

The problem with most Eve videos is trying work out the big picture. That is, what's happening? why? working out why someone is primary and the icons at the top of the overview are bloody small when looking at a video. It's hard to work out ship types.

The video that Endie mentioned, I really liked. One because of the F13 attachment but more importantly the author had edited in the vent chat so it was much easier to work out why things were happening, who was primary. The scottish accent helped.  :drill:

Most videos I have seen are solo, and most Eve fights are not. Voice chat is such a huge part of Eve combat that any depiction of Eve combat without it automatically fails.

That said, here's some of my writeups of PvP fights:  :grin:

Yarr! - First pitiful attempts at solo piracy (http://jonathan.pearce.name/mohtalim/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1601)
0.0 fights - flying with Queens of the Stone Age and RIOT (http://jonathan.pearce.name/mohtalim/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1601)
UGH - some of my adventures as part of Uninvited Guests (http://uninvitedguests.groups.vox.com/library/posts/)

If you only read one, you should probably read Fear is the mind killer (http://uninvitedguests.groups.vox.com/library/post/6a00e398d8f334000200e398d9301e0005.html).

Took me two months to get him good but got a pretty good price...

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=836557&page=1