f13.net

Massively says Raid Leader on your resume can help you get ahead. (http://www.massively.com/2008/05/12/player-vs-everything-putting-raiding-on-your-resume/)

LOL. There were some studies from some college and IBM within the last year that talked about businesses wanting to hire MMO gamers because of various traits, and that putting gaming on your resume could help you get hired. Seems a few more folks want to continue that discussion. Maybe in 20 years when more of the digital generation grows up this might fly, but baby boomer and late GenX managers would laugh this fool out of the interview.

Until then, maybe he can follow in this guy's foot steps. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wGR4-SeuJ0)

Funny, I didn't know undue arrogance, an inflated sense of self-worth and the ability to poop into a sock while leading others you've convinced to poop into a sock were desirable job skills.  :ye_gods:

You have forever tarnished my image of a raid leader, just when I didn't think it could get any lower.

Let me know when Horde or Alliance affiliation become protected EEOC classes.


 :oh_i_see:

I dunno, if a person can convince other people that pooping into a sock is a good time I'd definitely hire them for a sales job.

Or it could be a guy playing in raids two nights a week and playing organizer. Crazy thought, I know...

Don't forget endlessly screaming directions like "Idiots, get it right" and "my younger sister/brother/cousin etc... could do this better"

People really lead raids like that?

Hm.

I always tried to be the epitome of confidence and let the other people in the raid cry insults. That's what class leaders are for.  :awesome_for_real:

In middling guilds, yes, they are.  The successful guilds I've been a part of have had raid leaders who were on top of things, and kept their cool.. or at least the appearance of it to the rest of the raid.  On officer, or when talking to them on the other Vent/ TS server, there was plenty of; "Why the fuck can't xyz get his job right?! Damnit!"    The less successful raids and raid leaders were the ones who blew their tops.

Funny how I can relate the same situation to my actual managers and experience in the workplace.

Now, I agree with the idea in principle, but I still wouldn't hire a 'raid leader' for the position.  Their priorities are in things other than work, so they excel there.  If I could be convinced they cared as much about the company or the project at hand, I might consider it.  Given the general work apathy of the good raid leaders I've known, however, I suspect it'd be a bad idea.

I have to wonder for what employer would see this guy as a desirable applicant? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvIYRrgZ04)

I love that video so so much  :awesome_for_real:

Fuck that. I would do everything in my power to fuck that guild over and then /gquit. What a toolbox.

They are perfect slave herders with natural leadership talent. I mean, they herd lead people for fun.

Aaaah tailswipe.

That video reminds me of quite a few faculty meetings.  Maybe being a guild leader is helpful.

The only case I can imagine where I'd put raid leader on my resume was if I was applying for a call centre team leader position.  Which would fit nicely since the only way I would apply for that job would be if I had pissed my life away leading raids.

 :awesome_for_real:

Producer material!

I actually put up raid leader / guild leader on an application for a spot at EA a while ago amongst other things. Granted it was for an MMO, I was active in the community and the guild is top ranked in the world so I figured it would be of some relevance. I didn't put it up to show my leadership qualifications solely, but it was more a show of diversity in areas where I was felt I was a strong leader. Its different communicating and managing people online, over chatrooms, in real life, over "virtual offices" and different size of meetings (group of 10 vs 1000).

If it helped ? I would not know, didn't get the job  :uhrr:

So good. So damn good.

Reminds me of a guild leader I had in Lineage 2. He had the whole drill sergeant mentality, trying to lead us like a military organization. We got to the point where some of us fucked up during "drills' on purpose and blamed it on lag, just to get him really mad.

One day he got drunk and admitted to being a neo-Nazi in Vent. That was the end of that. His in game name was Landser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landser_(band)), but this was before I knew the glory of Wikipedia.

LOL that's hilarious! I wonder how many guilds have a guy like that.

Given that not all people of the usual age-bracket are gamers, far from all gamers play MMOs, and far from all MMO players raid, I'm not sure how much "raid leader" even means to anyone beyond the sort of people who read this board.

I would want to see some video footage (with vent taped over) for it to be of large merit, but a strong raid leader with good organizational and leadership skills, that can react to a constantly dynamic situation?

Takes 10 years of military service to reach that level of leadership--I'd hire good raid leaders in a freaking heartbeat, and probably go over my target hiring salary to do so.

Of course, the examples provided in this thread would guarantee they would not get the job ;)

Nah it doesn't really. It requires great knowledge of a particular field, like military leaders got their territories, raid leaders have a game. I think the most professional raid leaders, I have met possibly one or two (alongside me ofc!) who fit that description and indeed they are rare and no words in hell can put down that experience and wisdom on a resume. How can you explain such sole dedication and motivation bringing to 40 others to come back day after day to die 30-40 times on the same boss for two-three months and still keep your head calm and keep pushing forward and still having your guildmembers show up? This is just one example. The problem is not a raid leader who can keep organizing and structuring a dynamic situation, one individual is easy and with the several years with that mentality, it becomes nearly a subconscious thing, but the problem is the 24 goons following him. Now this takes several years of practice.

I'm not saying raid leading is as advanced as military leadership, its two different fields, just because one of them is online and in a game doesn't make it any less leadership quality, I believe rather the contradictory on this one for the sole reason that leading a raid can sometimes be worse than maintaining 24 kindergarden kids, and each time you enter a new field (like going from PvE to PvP or two different bosses) you have to reteach them everything. Now thinking about it I will not put up "Raid Leader / Guild Leader" on future MMO-related resumes, I will put down "Professional Kindergarden Drill Instructor"!

My old guild leader/raid leader swears blind that one of the reasons he's got his high paid CEO job these days is due to the experience he got leading raids in EQ/WoW.  All the quick thinking, herding cats, dealing with lewt bitching, dealing with 'I dont want to group with xx coz hes a dickhead', constantly motivating people to keep wiping on bosses etc.  He says after all that, managing a company is a piece of cake.  So yeah, I think being a successful guild leader/raid leader is great leadership/management experience/proof you can do it.

Of course, he is my ex-guild leader because since becoming CEO he has no time to piss away on MMORPGs, so that has to be taken into consideration too...

Without a shadow of a doubt, the best raid leader I ever had was a teenage Cali girl back in the original EQ.  She was so over the top in her anger - real or portrayed - that it was hilarious and motivational at the same time.  I learned a few new phrases.  She knew so much about the game, and especially the cartography, that it was a natural for her.  We raided every night and conquered what ever she pointed at - if only to make the post-raid debriefing easier.

If someone had Raid Leader on a resume that I had any say in, I'd want to ask a few more questions at the least.

Being willing to do tedious shit over and over again, dealing with stupid drama, and both teaching and motivating retards to do their simple, brainless tasks day after day qualifies you for a lot of jobs actually.

Wow, you just described my job to a T, and I work almost exclusively with MDs/Phds (who are the worse kind of brainless retards, the ones who think they know shit).

Yep, definitely the same as raids.

I wonder if putting Raid Leader would help me when I apply at SOE...

I mean I led raids.

They don't have to know if they were successful, right?

Joi Ito (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joi_Ito) (venture capitalist and leader of We Know (http://weknow.to) on WoW's Eitrigg server) has been talking about this for years and hiring/recommending people based on it - I'm pretty sure there was an article in 2005 or 2006 in Wired or picked up by boingboing, about people putting guild leadership experience on their CVs.

Ah, I found something about it on Joi's blog:

http://joi.ito.com/archives/2006/03/13/leadership_in_world_of_warcraft.html

I dunno, most game companies I've interviewed for couldn't care less about WOW experience. They just kinda assume you've got it. It might make a neat conversational piece, like "Heh you led a raid on Gruul? Heh cool." One thing that would turn me off is someone going on about how their clever build of a pally with a hally can pwn a sorcerous lock in tier three battledome beer-gear or whatever. Shudder.

If I recall correctly, that audio is actually faked. It's hilarious, but faked.

I've done both. Ever done the latter? It's not fun, I assure you. Of course, it pays better.

"Dots! More Dots! Where the fuck are the Dots?! FUCCCKKK!!!"

It's yet to help anyone in an interview with me. I can't speak for the rest of the company, but for the positions I cover it's not a dominant skill that I'm looking for. I do look for game knowledge (any deep MMO showing that the person can dig in), but not exclusively limited to raid knowledge.

I was actually attempting a joke. I swear I am only funny to me. I have a wit that I really think the world is saved from.

However I can see the benefits to being a raid leader and having to handle the multi-tude of tasks which need to be dealt with. I would hope for any position within a gaming company that experience WITH games is a requirement.

How have you been Grimwell? It's been a long time.

Raid leader might not have a place on a resume as it depends on the person reading it to have a clue what a raid leader is.

"Guild leader" or group leader has a place as it shows leadership and orginisational ability and thats much easier for someone to understand as they are looking your resume over

I wonder how long it will be before someone tries out for a band and says they can play Expert drums or vocals on Rock Band, which should be good enough... ;-)

You know what they say...

Q: What do you call a guy that hangs out with musicians?
A: A drummer.

Q: Whats the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
A: You only have to punch instructions into a drum machine once.