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...a non-PvP-based MMORPG that's basically about futuristic Romans fighting Mayan robots, in space...

It's a beautiful future, mainly because you don't exist.

Mythic aims to redefine the way you look at combat

The downside of E3 is that everyone has so much to see that they cannot usually get more than a cursory glance at each title. MMORPG.com was in a unique position when it came to Mythic’s second major release Imperator. We had just been down to Fairfax to see the game and released this preview. With scarcely more than a month between the two viewings, we decided not to waste your time with the basics we had already told you. Instead, I had a long chat with Mike Lescault, one of the designers behind Imperator, about one of the most important aspects of the game: combat. Today, in our first in-depth look at an aspect of the game, we hone in on combat and how Mythic hopes to perfect the mechanic that has always been such a hot-button topic in MMORPGs.

Imperator is set in a sci-fi alternate earth reality where Rome never fell and the republic is locked in an inter-stellar war with the Mayans – who left Terra (Earth) years before, leaving a plague in their wake. This setting immediately differentiates the game from most others. It is not fantasy in any way. The characters look realistic; there are no wizards or magicians – only people. Although some games obviously leap into a similar setting – namely Star Wars Galaxies – this change alone provides them with comparatively uncharted waters to explore and create something new in.

The first thing players notice in Imperator is that there is no auto-combat. If you wish to attack an enemy, you need to select an attack. As you fight, you lose energy and gain focus based on what feats you choose. The various combat moves work off one, or both of these things. This combination ensures players need to pay attention and strategize their combat. For example, do they wish to work the whole fight and build up to one giant pay off move that zaps all their focus or would they prefer to play it safe, and use more, but smaller moves that use only a portion of their hard-earned focus?

Another goal of the development team is to do away with the artificial nature of MMORPG combat where you are told what happened, and thus what to do next. They have augmented text spew like “your target is hamstrung” with the visual animation of a limping enemy. This client-to-player feedback is key. First, it keeps your attention on the battle instead of a chat box, and second it draws you into the experience in a special way. When a player has to watch their opponent to decide what to do next, it makes the player feel as if they are actually fighting rather than simply playing a game. This system, made possible through their use of animation blending (for the limping walk, or other indicators) promises to provide Imperator with greatly immersive combat experience.

One buzzword I heard a lot at E3 this year was “state-based combat”. Of all the incarnations on display, Imperator’s take on this concept intrigued me most. A state is short for the state-of-being that a character or monster is in. For example, a monster can be stunned, knocked down, hamstrung, etc. In Imperator, you cannot simply jump to the end – a knock down – but rather must push the creature along the scale through teamwork. A good group in Imperator will utilize the strengths of each member to drive an enemy further along a scale of states, and then capitalize on their outcome. In a theoretical example, a trooper could knock the enemy into a stunned state where they keep fighting, but are a bit off-kilter. This provides the gunner with the chance to blind him, at which point he stops fighting entirely. Perhaps then, the trooper can drive him to fear, where he runs around willy-nilly, before the gunner again hits him and knocks him off his feat. At this point, the entire group is able to jump in, kick and stomp to inflict a lot of damage on the prone enemy.

Another interesting aspect of the combat system is how it makes groups actually behave like groups. Some players will have feats that key off states that they alone cannot drive the monster into. This in no way diminishes the viability of solo play, but rather enhances group play. First and foremost, Imperator has been designed to be friendly to solo players. This system merely ads an extra layer of spice for those that do team up. Good coordination is key. The best groups in Imperator promise to be those that talk and plan, rather than just those who can inflict the maximum DPS in a mindless flurry of button mashing.

We also discussed how they hope to make each class in Imperator feel different in combat. The difference between a light tank and a heavy tank is far too often simply mathematical. The light tank stands still, hits fast and takes more damage. The heavy tank also stands still, hits slow, and takes less damage. While these basic concepts remain in Imperator, the necessity of different play styles for different classes augments them. The heavy tank will remain the damage sponge, as he endeavors to keep the attention of the monster squarely on him. Yet, the light tank type class has feats that make them move around. For example, they might begin with an in close blast, followed by a semi-far away shotgun shot, etc. This creates a sort of pinball class that plays and feels a lot different from their heavier brothers. For once, the choice of class has a direct impact on the style of play. This promises to enhance reliability, as it turns each class into their own unique play experience. It also means that while the game is still an RPG, there are definitely elements of player skill to consider.

As with every discussion of game mechanics of a game that has not yet hit beta - this is all subject to change. However, it does sound like a deep and exciting system that should entertain the masses and hopefully put the focus on the game, rather than the mechanics that support it. Generally, I was quite impressed by what I heard.

Overall, the most impressive aspect of Imperator – and the reason it was runner-up in our E3 Awards for Best of Show – is that they employed no E3 smokescreen. Their game was available in their booth for people to play. There was no contrived E3 demo, just the game standing on its own two feet. Obviously, we did not have a chance to play eight hours, advance our character and see the combat system from all sides, but the basics of it were definitely there. The game also appeared infinitely more polished than it had just a month before. The animations were smooth, the combat fluid and the controls crisp. I was shocked at the rate of change – and only in a month. If they continue to excel at such a pace over the next year of development, Mythic has another hit on their hands.

No mention of crafts.  Will crafting as a playstyle in Imperator will be just as uninspired and the domain of guild mules as it was in DAOC?  Ok strong words perhaps, but will it be more in the spirit of UO?  I really dislike a system where everyone can be a fully self-sufficient crafter.

Economy & Crafting
The game promises a player-based economy, and a world where money exists, but they do not emphasize it. This seems a touch paradoxical. Players are expected to get that next big item, not by mindless bashing of mobs for money, but through the completion of Life Events and other quests. This then raises the question of where, or even if, crafting fits into Imperator Online. It does. Anyone can be a crafter if that is his or her choice. Raw materials are gathered through combat – there shall be no mining or lumberjacking – and used in a system where not much has been revealed.

Mythic built Imperator Online off the Dark Age of Camelot engine. That may sound scary to some, but it essentially means that DAoC and the years that the tools of the game had to develop were the launching point for Imperator. In fact, rather than holding Imperator back, it should actually accelerate both its development and that of Dark Age of Camelot.

In talking to Matt Shaw, their Director of Technology, he was quite excited about two major changes. The first is EmotionFX, an animation system used in Imperator Online. During the section on combat, I pointed out that a player would limp if his leg were hurt. EmotionFX allows that. It takes as many as fifteen animations (a cap, but not a real limit that will ever be used) and blends them into one. What does this mean? A limping run, your head turning as a player walks by, etc. All of this makes the game look and feel more varied and alive.

The second is that Imperator also features extremely realistic lighting. The entire system has been overhauled to provide Imperator with realistic and attractive lighting. A new material system has ensured that each object in the world takes light correctly. Shaders will decorate everything in Imperator, as opposed to only basic things like water in DAoC. There is also far more use of specular and normal maps.

The End-Games
Mythic aims to create multiple end game choices for players. They will not reveal all the details, but did state their desire for several dramatically different forms of high-end content. A political career was the one concrete example provided. They would not discuss how this works, but did explain that they are aware of potential abuses and problems inherent in any political system.

A gladiatorial system is another possibility. Mark Jacobs did point out one very neat point when discussing this and PvP in general. What is the number one complaint people have with Dark Age of Camelot? It is often the balance issues. The reason? It is very hard to make things work in PvE that also work in PvP. The solution? Create a totally independent system for PvP, from PvE. They did not elaborate further, but did state that if PvP is part of Imperator Online it will operate and be balanced as a separate system, with no reliance or impact on the rest of the game.

The multi-pronged approach to end-games follows Mythic's general philosophy with Imperator to provide a very focused, but option-filled game experience. As mentioned, Imperator Online is not an open-ended sandbox game. It is very content driven, and to an extent, Mythic will define the play experience. The trick for them will be to ensure there are enough options to entertain the masses. With what they have discussed, it seems like there will be.

Imperator Online has taken a rather unique approach to character progression in terms of mechanics. The game is both level and skill based, with a cap of one-hundred, and fans of Dark Age of Camelot should be familiar with the concept of five base choices that branch out as you advance, in this case at level ten. Each base class has two or three classes that you can choose to evolve into. All information in this section is still under discussion at Mythic and may well change. Originally, I was presented with four base classes, and since the trip that has changed to five. Here is what we know as of today:

    * Technical Class: Uses technology to help others in their group.
    * Biomed Class: They are the healer/cleric types.
    * Ranged Class: The ranged class uses guns and other projectiles to engage enemies from afar.
    * Melee Class: The tanks, they uses hand-to-hand weapons.
    * Unspecified Other Class: The fifth class was quite hush-hush, but we did learn that it would be based heavily on research into quantum physics and be more akin to a "magic" class. Although, it should be noted, there is no "magic" in Imperator Online.

Beyond this, each one branches into two or three additonal class choices at level ten. These are as follows (again, the names are unconfirmed):

    * Technical Class:
          o Engineer: This is a form of pet class. Their technological creations help their allies. One example is that you can deploy a generator to help everyone recharge.
          o Robotisist: This is a pet and nuking class. They build things like a robot with a turret that will shoot enemies
    * Biomed Class:
          o The names of the two cleric-type classes that branch off this are unknown. What is known is that one is skewed towards offense and the other defense.
    * Ranged Class:
          o Sniper: These people wear light armor and are slow-moving, but do high damage. They also have traps and other toys.
          o Commando: This is more a hybrid class that has some elements of melee and some of range.
          o Grenadier: This is the heavy tank from afar. His description immediately makes me think of the heavy-suit in Tribes. They are largely stationary when in combat.
    * Melee Class:
          o Skirmisher: These are position melee reliant, fast, black-ops type people. Typically, in combat, you will play this character darting all over the place to inflict maximum damage.
          o Shock Trooper: This person does high damage, extended melee attacks and tends to be a little less close than other melee classes. Instead, he is at his best when he is just a bit away from the enemy.
          o Protector: The traditional tank. This person has a special shield that blocks extremely well head on. He is your damage-sponge.
    * Quantum Theory Class:
          o There are no details to be gleaned here yet, save the previously mentioned fact that they will be heavily based in quantum physics research.

The most interesting aspect of their system is how they weave a skill and class system together. Essentially, you need to reach a level to "unlock" a skill. Once unlocked, it is usage-based advancement. This combines the guided and balanced game play of a class system with the logical evolution of a skill system. The entire concept sounds very nice.

    *  Human: This is the stock jack-of-all-trades human race. Customization will be full, and should let you make a character of any real human race.
    * Ingenii: No concept art is yet available for these, but they are a highly beautiful, intelligent race. They are an ideal.
    * Artificial: Yes, you can play a robot. This race is made in their own image, but clearly not human. They are mechanical.

Is it twitch? No? Then it's not revolutionary. I pass.

I don't know, it sounds like a mish-mash of SWG special attacks and CoH no-auto attack combat, with some of Guild Wars and CoH's state animations. I think this is fine, but the state animation thing doesn't really do much for me if the combat is as fast-paced as say Guild Wars or most other MMOG's. This is one instance where slowing down combat would be better, because the state-based animation gets really unnoticeable in large fights in GW especially if there are lots of magical particle effects being tossed around.

The possibility of PVP being added is nice, but it sounds like it'll be at the end of a long series of PVE things, so can't really be touted as a feature, only a side benefit.

Nothing in there tells me I HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME.

* Ingenii: No concept art is yet available for these, but they are a highly beautiful, intelligent race. They are an ideal.

Mythic doesn't have much experience in PvE gameplay.

ROFL.  And everything in DAoC leading up to RvR is what then?

ROFL.  And everything in DAoC leading up to RvR is what then?

The specifics will sound familiar to you. There will be a fighter type, which will encompass various roles: melee attacker, tank, and ranged damage-dealer; also, a scout type, who specializes in stealth technology, and various forms of infiltration; a healer, of course, who keeps the other characters buffed, and in fighting condition; and finally, a "weird" type, who's privy to the myriad (meta)physical forces that compose the universe.

One buzzword I heard a lot at E3 this year was “state-based combat”. Of all the incarnations on display, Imperator’s take on this concept intrigued me most. A state is short for the state-of-being that a character or monster is in. For example, a monster can be stunned, knocked down, hamstrung, etc. In Imperator, you cannot simply jump to the end – a knock down – but rather must push the creature along the scale through teamwork. A good group in Imperator will utilize the strengths of each member to drive an enemy further along a scale of states, and then capitalize on their outcome. In a theoretical example, a trooper could knock the enemy into a stunned state where they keep fighting, but are a bit off-kilter. This provides the gunner with the chance to blind him, at which point he stops fighting entirely. Perhaps then, the trooper can drive him to fear, where he runs around willy-nilly, before the gunner again hits him and knocks him off his feat. At this point, the entire group is able to jump in, kick and stomp to inflict a lot of damage on the prone enemy.

Another interesting aspect of the combat system is how it makes groups actually behave like groups. Some players will have feats that key off states that they alone cannot drive the monster into. This in no way diminishes the viability of solo play, but rather enhances group play.

The first thing players notice in Imperator is that there is no auto-combat. If you wish to attack an enemy, you need to select an attack. As you fight, you lose energy and gain focus based on what feats you choose. The various combat moves work off one, or both of these things. This combination ensures players need to pay attention and strategize their combat. For example, do they wish to work the whole fight and build up to one giant pay off move that zaps all their focus or would they prefer to play it safe, and use more, but smaller moves that use only a portion of their hard-earned focus?

The most interesting aspect of their system is how they weave a skill and class system together. Essentially, you need to reach a level to "unlock" a skill. Once unlocked, it is usage-based advancement. This combines the guided and balanced game play of a class system with the logical evolution of a skill system. The entire concept sounds very nice.

Mythic built Imperator Online off the Dark Age of Camelot engine. That may sound scary to some, but it essentially means that DAoC and the years that the tools of the game had to develop were the launching point for Imperator. In fact, rather than holding Imperator back, it should actually accelerate both its development and that of Dark Age of Camelot.

The most interesting aspect of their system is how they weave a skill and class system together. Essentially, you need to reach a level to "unlock" a skill. Once unlocked, it is usage-based advancement. This combines the guided and balanced game play of a class system with the logical evolution of a skill system. The entire concept sounds very nice.

based heavily on research into quantum physics and be more akin to a "magic" class. Although, it should be noted, there is no "magic" in Imperator Online.

* Ingenii: No concept art is yet available for these, but they are a highly beautiful, intelligent race. They are an ideal.
* Artificial: Yes, you can play a robot. This race is made in their own image, but clearly not human. They are mechanical.

* Ingenii: No concept art is yet available for these, but they are a highly beautiful, intelligent race. They are an ideal.

Mythic aims to redefine the way you look at combat
...
Imperator is set in a sci-fi alternate earth reality where Rome never fell and the republic is locked in an inter-stellar war with the Mayans – who left Terra (Earth) years before, leaving a plague in their wake. This setting immediately differentiates the game from most others. It is not fantasy in any way. The characters look realistic; there are no wizards or magicians – only people. Although some games obviously leap into a similar setting – namely Star Wars Galaxies – this change alone provides them with comparatively uncharted waters to explore and create something new in.

A state is short for the state-of-being that a character or monster is in. For example, a monster can be stunned, knocked down, hamstrung, etc. In Imperator, you cannot simply jump to the end – a knock down – but rather must push the creature along the scale through teamwork. A good group in Imperator will utilize the strengths of each member to drive an enemy further along a scale of states, and then capitalize on their outcome. In a theoretical example, a trooper could knock the enemy into a stunned state where they keep fighting, but are a bit off-kilter. This provides the gunner with the chance to blind him, at which point he stops fighting entirely. Perhaps then, the trooper can drive him to fear, where he runs around willy-nilly, before the gunner again hits him and knocks him off his feat. At this point, the entire group is able to jump in, kick and stomp to inflict a lot of damage on the prone enemy.

... While these basic concepts remain in Imperator, the necessity of different play styles for different classes augments them. The heavy tank will remain the damage sponge, as he endeavors to keep the attention of the monster squarely on him. Yet, the light tank type class has feats that make them move around. For example, they might begin with an in close blast, followed by a semi-far away shotgun shot, etc. This creates a sort of pinball class that plays and feels a lot different from their heavier brothers. For once, the choice of class has a direct impact on the style of play. This promises to enhance reliability, as it turns each class into their own unique play experience. It also means that while the game is still an RPG, there are definitely elements of player skill to consider.

I think that Mythic has one thing going for them at this point.  They can and have had great launches.  It's just down the line that they screw up and usually in vey bad ways.  I wish the team the best of luck although I wish they had put their talents towards something different.

TA? What game is that?

Next think you know, Mel Gibson will buy a controlling interest in an MMO, and we'll be treated to "evil redcoats in space" (notice all of his villains are British, or speak with a Brit accent), featuring quests where our women are raped and killed by Lord Fondleroy, forcing us to seek revenge.

I think by "Brit" he means English and "Fondleroy" might be a polite way of saying "Fondle boy"... it must be about English politicians and their penchant for rent boys.  I don't know what it's doing in the middle of a thread about Shadowbane, either. 

Fondleroy is a pedophilic play on "Little Lord Fauntleroy" by Frances Hodgson Burnett. 5 stars for incredibly obscure referenece. My Dad read the book to me 25+ years ago.

The specifics will sound familiar to you. There will be a fighter type, which will encompass various roles: melee attacker, tank, and ranged damage-dealer; also, a scout type, who specializes in stealth technology, and various forms of infiltration; a healer, of course, who keeps the other characters buffed, and in fighting condition; and finally, a "weird" type, who's privy to the myriad (meta)physical forces that compose the universe.

The core dynamic that keeps pulling devs into the DikuMUD model is the theory of increasing HPs. Give every character the same HPs forever and combat can be balanced much more easily since the damage tables don't have to spiral out of control.

Doesn't Guild Wars have fairly equal hit points across all builds?

I noticed last night that Guild Wars HPs seemed to be capped at 480. Or at least it is for my PvP Monk/El. A +45 HP item I have on the character won't take it past 480.

I noticed last night that Guild Wars HPs seemed to be capped at 480. Or at least it is for my PvP Monk/El. A +45 HP item I have on the character won't take it past 480.

Ajax, ... it sounds to me like you're making the slightly bizarre assumption that the Romans and Mayans have ... not changed in any other significant ways. 

That's correct, because when you say "Romans" I imagine the Romans as they were, and the Mayans as they were, pyramids and all.  Any detail not specifically described, I fill in with how they were at the time.  The information they released about the game describes that they advanced technologically, so I changed that detail and filled in everything else with how they were in the RL at the time when they still existed.

I have a few problems with the lore, and, unfortunately for me, the details haven't all been released so I don't know if I'm right or wrong.  But...

1.  Part of what invites people to poke fun is the claim that there will actually be Romans and Mayans in the game.  Both words definitely have distinct historic timeline connotations associated with them, specifically there haven't been any Romans or Mayans in existence for a while

The thing I'm curious about is where the lore of the game world diverges from real history.

<delurk>

I am still chuckling at the idea of a space traveling civ that hadn't progressed past Roman numerals.

Religion isn't touched on in Imperator, because it's the third rail of angering people in RL. Same reason Albion has no holy symbols beyond a grail in DAOC.

So if I told you I was making a game about "space pirates" would you imagine a Spanish galleon with rockets on the back?

The timeline diverges before the Empire is established in our world, so the Rome of Imperator is, after a brief detour, (still) a Republic. Since in this timeline there wasn't a 1000 year technological time-out (the Dark Ages) in the west, the level of tech in the game is certainly feasible. There's been quite a lot of development given to the game's alternate history; while I'm sure some will find issue with it, most of the issues raised here have been at least touched on.

It might be kind of fun to make Latin an integral part of the game, though. You could turn Latin into the "l33t" speak of the 21st Century! :-D

God, would that be awesome.  Don't toy with my emotions like that.

So if I told you I was making a game about "space pirates" would you imagine a Spanish galleon with rockets on the back?

quidquid latine dictum sit, audit viditur ...

Scio cur summae inter se dissentiant!  Numeris Romanis utor!

Iway avehay onay ideaway atwhay anyway ofway ouyay areway ayingsay.

Scio cur summae inter se dissentiant!  Numeris Romanis utor!

Quod licet jovi, non licet bovi ...

As far as I know, there is no automatic Latin translation software anywhere.  There are some decent dictionaries, though, and that's really all that anyone with a few years of Latin under their belt needs.  I'm fond of Words (http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe).

The state of American education today is truly appalling.

Religion isn't touched on in Imperator, because it's the third rail of angering people in RL. Same reason Albion has no holy symbols beyond a grail in DAOC.