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Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: HaemishM on October 22, 2004, 08:18:16 AM Red Sox vs Cardinals
Results from Round 2 Shannow - 6-0 - (0-2 on # of games played) Rasix - 5-1 - (2-0 on # of games played) HaemishM - 5-1 - (1-1 on # of games played) WayAbvPar - 5-1 - (1-1 on # of games played) SirBruce - 5-1 - (0-2 on # of games played) Zaphkiel - 5-1 - (0-2 on # of games played) Shaftoe - 5-1 - (0-2 on # of games played) Ardent - 4-2 - (0-2 on # of games played) DarkDryad - 4-2 - (0-2 on # of games played) Kenrick - 4-2 - (0-2 on # of games played) Nebu - 4-2 - (0-2 on # of games played) Paelos - 3-3 - (0-2 on # of games played) I'm ranking the ties based on # of games picked correctly. In order to count the number of games correctly, you must have picked the correct team as well. By this tally, only the top 4 could realistically win, and only if they all pick the correct team AND number of games. Shannow is the favorite, and Rasix is the challenger, with myself or Way being an outside shot. Let the picking begin! Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: HaemishM on October 22, 2004, 08:19:10 AM Red Sox in 7
Yes, I predict the Sawks will break the curse, just to spit on the grave of this year's Yankee team. Suppan surprised me last night, but I don't think he'll be able to take down a tough Boston offense. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Rasix on October 22, 2004, 08:21:18 AM Hmm.. should I wait and see what Shannow picks? Heh.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 22, 2004, 08:35:56 AM I would like a grief title for being the worst at this ever.
Cards in 5. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 22, 2004, 08:48:38 AM Sox in 6. Just so we can win it all at home.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: WayAbvPar on October 22, 2004, 09:24:12 AM Cardinals in 7.
I am rooting for the Sox, but I need to make up ground on Shannow the Greek over here. Title: Re: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Zaphkiel on October 22, 2004, 09:27:51 AM Quote from: HaemishM Red Sox vs Cardinals Cards in 5 Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: schild on October 22, 2004, 09:34:05 AM Quote from: Paelos I would like a grief title for being the worst at this ever. Your wish is granted. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 22, 2004, 09:37:02 AM Ah excellent, and so very true.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 22, 2004, 10:07:44 AM Quote from: WayAbvPar Shannow the Greek If I win I want that. heh. 'Who do you think you are?!' 'Im Nick the Greek' Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Joe on October 22, 2004, 11:09:41 AM Son of a bitch. I'm not picking. Every team I've picked/rooted for has lost up to this point, so fuck it.
Go Cards. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shaftoe on October 22, 2004, 12:49:50 PM Home field advantage = Sawks in 7!
The power of the curse weakens as Barry "Roid" Bonds approaches the Babe's HR total. And so my goat-hating Cubs can live on in baseball infamy, alone. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 22, 2004, 03:32:55 PM Umm, I picked the right number of games for Yankees - Red Sox, just the wrong team. Or does the number of games not count unless you get the team right as well?
Anyway, Cards in 7. Also, I think the World Series winner should be worth double points. Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Ardent on October 22, 2004, 04:39:52 PM Well, since I'm 4-2, I might as well go with what the universe is telling me and predict that's how the Series will go.
Cardinals in 6. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Rasix on October 22, 2004, 08:03:26 PM My heart says Sox in 6, but my desire to perhaps win and prevent Bruce from having a chance to win says Cards in 7. So, Cards in 7 it is.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: HaemishM on October 23, 2004, 02:36:23 PM Quote from: SirBruce Umm, I picked the right number of games for Yankees - Red Sox, just the wrong team. Or does the number of games not count unless you get the team right as well? I figured you gotta get the team and number of games right for credit. I'll think about double points for the World Series winner if he picks the right team AND right number of games. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Moroni on October 23, 2004, 05:55:32 PM Complete farting in the wind, but this is going to be a sweep. I do not know who, though.
Cards/Sox in 4. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Ubiq on October 23, 2004, 09:08:20 PM It's so clearly going to be the Sox in six. I don't even know why you guys are debating it.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: pack1112 on October 24, 2004, 09:08:41 AM I wouldnt be suprised to see the sox win in 7 since they had lost 2 times to the yanks in the playoffs and beat them the third time round. They were also two other examples that i cant think of atm, but this would be time number 3..
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Biobanger on October 24, 2004, 02:46:34 PM Sox in 5
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: jonnytx on October 24, 2004, 11:17:43 PM Quote from: Ardent Oh well, it would have been nice to watch Clemens help sweep the Red Sox. I guess the Cards in 4 will do. maybe next year Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 25, 2004, 04:03:26 AM Cards pitching has sucked major ass so far. They should have won game 1... they had plenty of offense, but they gave the Sox too many chances. (One could argue the Sox gave the Cards too many chances too, only the Sox were still lucky enough to come out on top.)
Sox defense has been atrocious. Unfortunately, the Cards still didn't win those games, so they may have missed an opportunity. At this point I think we'll see a 3 game sweep at home for the Cards to make the series 3-2. Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 25, 2004, 07:07:28 AM The Soup and Marquis aren't exactly 'stoppers' ya know. If the Sox offence stays hot in Busch then the Cards are in serious trouble.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: DarkDryad on October 25, 2004, 07:18:18 AM Cards in 6
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 25, 2004, 07:19:32 AM As soon as I picked Cards in 5 you people should have been running to the Sox like rats from a sinking ship. I am the anti-picker right now. BOW DOWN TO MY AWFULNESS!
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 26, 2004, 06:39:58 PM Fuckin' Jeff Suppan. Hero to Goat in 60 seconds.
Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Margalis on October 26, 2004, 08:47:36 PM Do the Cardinals know how to play baseball at all?
I haven't been watching much of the games, so far I've seen: Reggie Sanders miss tagging second base, turning 2nd & 3rd into 1st and 2nd. A *pitcher* pitch-running for someone, then FALLING DOWN as he ran towards second. Another pitcher get caught off of third base a ball in the infield. First of all, who puts in a pitcher to pinch run? Second, aren't these NL pitchers supposed to, you know, have PLAYED in the NL and know how to run a bit. The Cards have also suffered from a lack of clutch hitting, but watching them play reminds me of watching the As play in the post-season the last few years: they find a way to lose, in increasingly crappy fashion. With the A's it is always something retarded like who's shoe is going to fall off as they hit third and barrel into a dugout... I guess when you hit home runs all day you don't have time to learn stuff like touching base when not on your home run trot? Every time I turn on the TV it's just awful...I have no idea how the Cards played during the regular season (don't follow the NL much) but this is just terrible... Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 26, 2004, 08:58:18 PM It's pretty much not like the Cardinals at all. They've totally fallen apart.
Ahh well, let me wish the Red Sox congratulations in finally shaking off the curse. The upside is we won't have to listen to Boston's whining anymore. Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Margalis on October 26, 2004, 09:44:49 PM Is having a pitcher pinch-run something the cardinals or other NL teams do often? I mean, usually when a pitcher is on base the commentators are like "oh no, hopefully he won't get hurt running the bases!"
Didn't they have a speedy back-up infielder or something? Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 26, 2004, 09:59:28 PM Funnily enough everyones still in it, Cards could pull a RedSox '04 and come back.:)
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 27, 2004, 05:16:19 AM Quote from: Margalis Is having a pitcher pinch-run something the cardinals or other NL teams do often? I mean, usually when a pitcher is on base the commentators are like "oh no, hopefully he won't get hurt running the bases!" Didn't they have a speedy back-up infielder or something? It's not common. Cardinals are unique in that they have a couple of pitchers who can actually HIT, and yes, they do pinch run with the one frequently. It's literally never been a problem in the past; they just fucked up. Sorta like how the Red Sox got 8 errors in the first two games, except they managed to pull out a win anyway. Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Ubiq on October 27, 2004, 12:24:11 PM Quote from: Shannow Funnily enough everyones still in it, Cards could pull a RedSox '04 and come back.:) While I'm rooting for the Red Sox, I have to admit that it certainly would be one hell of an interesting story if the Red Sox managed to top the Yankees for biggest choke ever. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 27, 2004, 12:37:37 PM Quote from: Ubiq Quote from: Shannow Funnily enough everyones still in it, Cards could pull a RedSox '04 and come back.:) While I'm rooting for the Red Sox, I have to admit that it certainly would be one hell of an interesting story if the Red Sox managed to top the Yankees for biggest choke ever. Well we are talking about the Red Sox. Thats why Im hpoing they wrap it up tonight. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Ardent on October 27, 2004, 02:49:03 PM Quote from: SirBruce The upside is we won't have to listen to Boston's whining anymore. Now if only we can get the Cubs to win next year, all these crybabies can finally shut their pie holes once and for all. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 27, 2004, 07:53:00 PM Moroni appears poised to be a half-assed winner.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 27, 2004, 07:57:50 PM Quote from: SirBruce At this point I think we'll see a 3 game sweep at home for the Cards to make the series 3-2. Bruce And Bruce just looks plain wrong. But seriously, even if you thought the Sox would win the series, who could have predicted this? Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: schild on October 27, 2004, 08:17:52 PM Wtf, was today new avatar day? I guess I should get one.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: SirBruce on October 27, 2004, 08:40:05 PM RED SOX WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
Well, at least when it went 3-0 I predicted the sweep. Bruce Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: pack1112 on October 27, 2004, 09:20:56 PM I hope bill buckner can get a good sleep tonight!
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 04:38:13 AM Quote from: pack1112 I hope bill buckner can get a good sleep tonight! Amen to that. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 04:40:31 AM Quote from: schild Wtf, was today new avatar day? I guess I should get one. Yes and no, just rehashing and old one I had for a while on p2p. I was getting sick of the weird slideshow one. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: schild on October 28, 2004, 05:00:54 AM Quote from: Kenrick I was getting sick of the weird slideshow one. And I was just starting to warm up to it. Whatwith a tele-tubby and all..... Thanks for changing it. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 05:10:01 AM Quote from: schild And I was just starting to warm up to it. Whatwith a tele-tubby and all..... Hey now, I didn't make it... gosh now I can't remember who did. One of the regulars at p2p... schooled in some sort of photoshop program obviously... with a love for classic 70's/80's television, teh Jesus, and USA flag... Come to think of it, it might have been Pika. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 28, 2004, 06:33:48 AM RED SOX WIN!!
and more importantly I win!!! .:P~~~~~ That was anti-climatic I have to admit. Total domination. Oh and Ardent...let the NYY fans whining begin... 'Year Twooo thouuusand, Year two thousand...'... Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2004, 07:08:13 AM After seeing the result, I detract my statement about Cards v. Sox being the ideal series. I neglected to realize that the Cards would stop playing baseball. It was a slap in the face of the Astros and all their fans. They should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 07:23:51 AM Quote from: Paelos It was a slap in the face of the Astros and all their fans. Yep. It's entirely possible that the Sox could have swept us as well. However, many of us feel that it would have been at least an entertaining series. Oh yeah, and FOX and that Creed idiot suck ass. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2004, 07:28:57 AM I think you had the pitching to win at least a game, if not take it to game 6 at the bare minimum. There is no way in hell you would have been swept with the hardnosed drive a wild-card team possesses. I was just appauled at how easy it was for Boston to win. Even if it's the team everybody loves, a sweep in the World Series is ultra-ghey. Especially from two teams who came out of seven game series. I don't think anybody, even Boston fans, thinks that qualified as a showdown between the two best teams in baseball.
It was the best team in baseball and a bunch of headcases who forgot how to hit. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Alkiera on October 28, 2004, 07:29:16 AM Quote from: Kenrick Oh yeah, and FOX and that Creed idiot suck ass. I listened to the game on the radio, and heard that guy sing. Dear God, he should never ever sing anywhere other than a soundproof shower ever again. Alkiera Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 28, 2004, 07:37:45 AM Yeah christ was he even from St. Louis? and even if he was couldnt they find anyone else??
I knew from before the playoffs started that St. Louis pitching would be suspect and its exactly the sort of pitching the Red Sox feast on...Not overwhelming stuff, relying on spotting your pitches..The cards pitches simply didnt throw first/second pitch strikes and if you cant do that the Sox lineup will take the walks and crap all over you. Anyway the Cards were bound to lose, even the moon was on our side. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 08:14:21 AM Quote from: Shannow I knew from before the playoffs started that St. Louis pitching would be suspect and its exactly the sort of pitching the Red Sox feast on... Right, we all knew they didn't have any aces (to say the least...). But it was the lack of Cardinals hitting (aside from Game 1) that was the most shocking part. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Margalis on October 28, 2004, 08:18:25 AM The Cardinals didn't accomplish anything. Terrible baserunning, terrible hitting, never leading the entire series, giving up runs in the first inning nearly every game, falling behind every batter.
They just plain looked awful. If I didn't know better watching them I would think I was watching a rebuilding team. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on October 28, 2004, 08:18:40 AM It looked like they moved away from what got them there in the hitting department. They weren't playing small ball anymore and too many guys were getting down early in the count on bad swings. In the series, patience is the defining factor to hitting, not talent. Even the most talented guy can't get it done if he's swinging at a two foot breaking ball low and away.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on October 28, 2004, 08:44:43 AM I think they were done for once they couldn't win Game 1. Also doesnt help Chris Carpenter was out.
Remember good pitching beats good hitting and in Schilling, Pedro and yes the biggest surprise of all Derek Lowe were simply phenomanal. Oh and Keith Foulke. Still why Scott Rolen looked worse than Pedro at the plate Im not sure. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Ralence on October 28, 2004, 09:01:17 AM Quote from: Paelos It was the best team in baseball and a bunch of headcases who forgot how to hit. I completely agree. Everyone knew the Cards pitching was suspect, and I'm pretty sure they were picked to come in something like 4th in their division because of it before the season started. I don't think ANYONE expected the Cards hitters to just completely not show up. Statistically, their 2-7 was the best in the history of major league baseball during the regular season, so for them to lose games they could have easily won with offense, 3-0, 6-2, 4-1, just makes it that much worse. The funny part is, as a 20+ year sox fan, even up to the last inning last night, the only thing that kept running through my head was, "oh no, this is where they're going to blow it". When I woke up this morning, I had to check ESPN.com just to make sure they really had won. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on October 28, 2004, 09:10:32 AM Quote from: Ralence The funny part is, as a 20+ year sox fan, even up to the last inning last night, the only thing that kept running through my head was, "oh no, this is where they're going to blow it". That same thought ran through my head when that leadoff single went right between Foulke's legs. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: HaemishM on November 01, 2004, 12:44:28 PM Sorry I haven't checked back on this thread. Shannow wins it and I will have to think of something suitably funny to grief title you with. Since Paelos wins as the Anti-Picker, the Cards should get on their bus and go to his house with their bats and cleats. Paelos is the Bambino for the Cardinals.
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 01, 2004, 12:54:11 PM Found why the Cards sucked so much..
Cause its hard to adjust Scott Rolens swing when your seeing 3 bats (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041101&content_id=908778&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp) Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Paelos on November 03, 2004, 08:03:36 AM Quote from: HaemishM Sorry I haven't checked back on this thread. Shannow wins it and I will have to think of something suitably funny to grief title you with. Since Paelos wins as the Anti-Picker, the Cards should get on their bus and go to his house with their bats and cleats. Paelos is the Bambino for the Cardinals. Hey now, I was...but I.... Meh, it's not like they can hit anything now anyway, let them bring it on. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shockeye on November 06, 2004, 03:07:13 PM I think this could get unstickied. But then again, what do I know?
Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 09, 2004, 05:53:58 PM So while its still here...
Anyone up for a quick Johnson vs Clemens Cy Young debate? Ive come to the conclusion that the baseball writers of America are about as clueless as your average bleacher fan. Johnson beats Clemens in EVERY pitching statistic but loses out because the HITTERS on his OWN team suck arse. As far as I know the Cy Young is the award for best pitcher not best pitcher on a good team. If Johnson had been on the Astros he wouldve won 22+ games. Oh did I mention that he tossed a perfect game? Seriously some of these writers should be fired, the f'ing stupid reasons they come up with not to vote for certain players: Pedro loses MVP in 99 ONLY because one writer thinks 'pitchers should never win the MVP', pitchers only stat that matters is Win Losses. Seriously how do these fucktards get their jobs? If your getting paid to write about baseball then you should at least take some F'ing time to actually put some thought into your vote. If Schilling wins the Cy Young tmw I'll fucking bludgeon someone to death with a Loiusville. Now, Haemish, where the f is my title. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shockeye on November 09, 2004, 06:46:10 PM Quote from: Shannow Johnson beats Clemens in EVERY pitching statistic but loses out because the HITTERS on his OWN team suck arse. I'm pretty sure wins are a statistic but I could be mistaken. Bud Selig may have changed that in the last few years and I missed it. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 10, 2004, 04:54:55 AM Quote from: Shockeye Quote from: Shannow Johnson beats Clemens in EVERY pitching statistic but loses out because the HITTERS on his OWN team suck arse. I'm pretty sure wins are a statistic but I could be mistaken. Bud Selig may have changed that in the last few years and I missed it. Are you trying to piss me off? I said pitching statistics, not team statistics...and wins for a pitcher is as much determined by his TEAM as the pitcher himself. Johnson was 13! and 2 when his team SCORED MORE THAN 2 RUNS..think about that. His ERA was half a run lower than Clemens, he had the least hits per 9 innings by a NL pitcher since BOB GIBSON..ever heard of him? Johnson was the better PITCHER, go out and ask any baseball manager or GM and say 'If, knowing their stats, would you have rather had Clemens or Johnson on your team for the year?' They would say Johnson. He was the better pitcher and thats what the award is for. Edit: Whoops forgot, Johnson only had 2 LESS wins than Clemens. Im sorry maybe Schilling should get the AL Cy Young over Santana because he has 3 more wins right? Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on November 10, 2004, 05:19:26 AM I agree (even as an Astros' fan) that Johnson was technically more deserving of "best pitcher of the year" than Roger. Although both had fantastic years, and provided many milestones and veteran leadership, Unit was better.
But there are only certain personal achievement awards that the MLB will hand out to great players on shitty teams. From my experience as a fan, it's typically Gold Glove or Rookie of the Year. MVP and Cy Young (AKA most valuable pitcher, in a way) seem to have an unspoken requirement of being handed out to a player on a team that at least contended. I'm not overjoyed about Roger winning the Cy. He comes and joins our team for one year, signs some I'll-travel-with-you-when-I-feel-like-it contract, blows the All-Star game in less than an inning, then blows Game 7 of the NLCS. "Oh, but look I won lotsa games!" Sure, we probably wouldn't have gotten there without him... but there are still some things about him that chap my hide. I dunno. I won't miss him after he retires this year (please retire kthx). Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 10, 2004, 06:32:24 AM Arod won MVP last year , mainly because there was a lack of other candidates. MLB doesnt hand out these awards, they are voted on by baseball writers around the country. Which goes to show most of them should be fired. If its a most valuable pitcher award then it should be named so, until then giving it to Clemens is a crock.
Clemens might not retire and lets face it hes not a bad pitcher to have around. That being said has the man won a big game EVER? And Im not talking like Game 3 of an ALCS Im talking, Game 7s, elimination Game 6s, clinching game 6s..etc...He sucked in Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003 too (though of course the wanks went on to win, no thanks to him).. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Nebu on November 10, 2004, 08:00:54 AM The most telling statistics I look at for pitchers are BB+Hits/9IP and a comparison of their winning % vs. the team's winning %.
BB + Hits/9IP Winning % Team Winning% ERA Johnson 8.10 (1st) 0.533 0.315 2.60(2nd) Clemens 10.4 (8th) 0.818 0.568 2.98(5th) Looking purely at the personal stats, Johnson has a slight edge. When you consider team impact, the 18 and 4 record of Clemens really stands out. Also, it's difficult to hand such a major award to a team that has such a rough year. Put Johnson on a contender and he runs away with the Cy Young. Sadly, I feel it was the supporting cast that dragged him down. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 10, 2004, 08:23:32 AM Grrrrrrrrrrrrr for the millionth time...
Repeat after me: 'The Cy Young is NOT A TEAM AWARD. IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL AWARD. IT GOES TO THE BEST PITCHER, NOT THE BEST PITCHER ON A CONTENDING TEAM' Quote from: Nebu Looking purely at the personal stats, Johnson has a slight edge. He has a decided edge, therefore he should win it. Quote from: Nebu When you consider team impact, the 18 and 4 record of Clemens really stands out. We are not considering team impact, the Cy Young is a individual award. Clemens got his team award, it was called going to the playoffs. Quote from: Nebu Also, it's difficult to hand such a major award to a team that has such a rough year. Again we are not handing the Cy Young to a TEAM it goes to the BEST PITCHER. And Randy Johnson was the BEST PITCHER. Your not a baseball writer are you? Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: HaemishM on November 10, 2004, 08:50:53 AM The worst part about all the baseball awards voted on by the MLB writers is that players on non-contending teams usually get jobbed. Hard. Unless there are really no other suitable candidates. Which is why Arod never got the MVP until last year, when no one else could be a legitmate MVP.
But don't worry, the MVP in the National League will just as much of a crock. Bonds will win it, even though it should be Rolen or Pujols. Maybe if all the opposing managers hadn't turned into complete pussies and actually pitched to Bonds, he might have the numbers to clearly earn the MVP. At first, I'd have said Santana should be AL Cy Young Winner, but after Schilling's performance in the postseason on broke-ass tendons, I'd be happy either way. I have no problem with Clemens getting the Cy Young, 18-4 is hard to argue with. But I also have no problem with Johnson getting the Cy Young, because he was on a shitty team. I don't feel quite so outraged about Johnson not getting it because he has gotten it before. And I've been too busy to think up a suitable grief title. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Nebu on November 10, 2004, 09:06:29 AM Quote from: Shannow Grrrrrrrrrrrrr for the millionth time... Repeat after me: 'The Cy Young is NOT A TEAM AWARD. IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL AWARD. IT GOES TO THE BEST PITCHER, NOT THE BEST PITCHER ON A CONTENDING TEAM'Again we are not handing the Cy Young to a TEAM it goes to the BEST PITCHER. And Randy Johnson was the BEST PITCHER. Your not a baseball writer are you? No, I'm not a sportswriter... my poor writing should make that obvious. Johnson's lack of 18-20 wins vs 14 losses is what I feel killed his chances. I (like yourself) feel that Johnson's statistical package was better than Clemens this year, especially when considering that he pitched in one of the top hitter's parks (Coors, Fenway Park, Skydome in Toronto, and Wrigley Field were also high in run production). Looking at the Cy's given since it's creation in 1956, I could not find a single pitcher with as many losses as Johnson that wasn't a) a reliever or b) a 20 game winner. Johnson's 14 losses were only equalled or surpassed by (I'm only considering starters here): Randy Jones (22-14) and Gaylord Perry (24-16). Now Randy Jones may be a good case for Johnson being awarded the Cy this year. Let's take a look: Jones pitched for a 5th place team in its division with a 0.611 winning % vs. a 0.451 for the team. To his credit, Jones led MLB in wins, BB+hits/9ip, complete games, batters faced, games started, Innings pitched and hits allowed despite being on a losing team. Randy Jones carried the Padres in 1976. The same could be said for Johnson and Arizona. Now let's compare Johnson to Jones. Johnson's rank in important categories: ERA (2nd), Wins (5th), BB+hits/9IP (1st), Hits allowed (1st), IP (2nd), K's (1st), Games Started (1st), Complete games (4th) Shutouts (3rd), Batters faced (3rd). Looking at this objectively, I agree that given all factors (park, run support, etc.) that Johnson is the better pitcher (between he and Clemens)and deserving of the Cy Young. I think the stat that failed him most was that having 14 losses was a hurdle that sports writers felt they could only overcome with 18-20 wins. It's not fair, I agree... but that's the way it goes in this game. EDIT: Please note that I'm offering these as observations and not trying to argue. Awards such as the Cy have very subjective components to them and occasionally go to pitchers that the writers want to see get the award. Giving the Cy to Clemens may have been the path of least resistance in this case even though the statistics (other than Win/Loss) are overwhelmingly in the favor of Johnson when you consider park and supporting cast. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 10, 2004, 10:09:58 AM Quote from: HaemishM At first, I'd have said Santana should be AL Cy Young Winner, but after Schilling's performance in the postseason on broke-ass tendons, I'd be happy either way. I wouldn't be and I'm a Sox fan. The reason they decide these awards before the playoffs is so that pitcher on non-contending teams have a chance (admitingly Santana was on a playoff team). Santana was by far and away the better pitcher and will win, thank goodness, because he was on a competitive team. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Nebu on November 10, 2004, 12:20:45 PM Quote from: Shannow Santana was by far and away the better pitcher and will win, thank goodness, because he was on a competitive team. I had hoped that I made my point, but it looks like I fell short. It isn't a prerequisite that a pitcher be on a winning team to win the Cy Young. The fact is that pitchers from losing teams have more of an uphill battle. Pitchers from losing teams will have a weaker supporting cast which often results in a)more losses due to lower run support and b) an inflated ERA due to fielding. What was amazing to me was that RJ managed to compile a great ERA and 16 wins despite the rest of his team. Had he managed to tie Clemens in wins, his 14 losses would have been less of a factor. Furthe, I'll bet he would have done much better in the voting. Looking at Santana, there is a statistic that many of us historical baseball fans like to follow called the ERA+. ERA+ is a number that rates pitchers to the average pitcher in MLB (i.e. an average MLB pitcher would receive a rating of 100) and is adjusted for many factors including team and park effects. Looking not only at statistical categories but also the ERA+, Santana is the best pitcher in baseball for 2004. He leads in 8 statistical categories and had a 20-6 record. If he doesn't win the AL Cy, it will be a travesty. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 10, 2004, 01:44:13 PM (I wasnt argueing with your point Nebu I was just making a point in regards to something Haemish said. No worries mate Im not taking issue with what you said)
heh the point I was making was that Santana will have no problems winning because he was on a playoff team. Even if he was on a non playoff team with that W-L record he'd probably still win...however if he had all the same stats except for W-L because his hitters suck it would be very possible that Schilling would win , which I think, as Im sure you are all well aware of by now , is completely ridicolous. Oh yes Johnson had a better +ERA and win shares to I read today (iirc) Im spending my time gaining baseball geek xp today. So far Im level 2. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Nebu on November 10, 2004, 02:08:26 PM Quote from: Shannow Oh yes Johnson had a better +ERA and win shares to I read today (iirc) Im spending my time gaining baseball geek xp today. So far Im level 2. They have the win shares numbers out??? Woo hoo! I can now complete my level 2 baseball geek quest! Title: Santana 4tehwin Post by: Shockeye on November 11, 2004, 11:39:31 AM Quote from: Star Tribune Twins lefthander Johan Santana, who just completed his first full season as a member of a starting rotation, reached the pinnacle of his profession Thursday when he was unanimously voted the American League Cy Young Award. Santana got a perfect score of 140 points, based on a 5-3-1 scoring system for first-, second- and third-place votes from the 28 American League votes. Boston's Curt Schilling, cosidered Santana's main challenger for the award, was a distant second, receiving 27 second-place votes for a total of 82. The Yankees' Mariano Rivera was third with 24 third-place votes and 27 total points. Exhale here. (http://www.startribune.com/stories/509/5080966.html) Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on November 11, 2004, 11:56:45 AM Blah this one was never in doubt. His 13-0 after teh AS break and a division winning team made sure of that.
You can find complete voting breakdown here (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041111&content_id=912848&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp) Interesting things to note: <stupid rant / analysis snipped> Houston baseball writers are more moronic than most. Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Kenrick on November 11, 2004, 12:09:54 PM Quote from: Shannow Houston baseball writers are more moronic than most. see: Justice, Richard Title: Doug Manketchup... Mancaveitch... Mientkiewicz! Post by: Shockeye on January 07, 2005, 10:08:29 AM The Red Sox don't need no stinkin' ball. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=531&e=1&u=/ap/20050107/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bba_world_series_ball)
Quote from: AP Sox First Baseman Won't Give Up Ball BOSTON - Calling it "my retirement fund," Boston first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz stashed in his safe deposit box the ball used in the final out that sealed the Red Sox's first World Series (news - web sites) championship in 86 years. Now, his boss wants it back. "We want it to be part of Red Sox archives or museums so it can be shared with the fans," Red Sox CEO Larry Lucchino told The Boston Globe on Thursday. "We would hope he would understand the historical nature of it." Mientkiewicz seems to understand it very well, which is exactly why he held on to it. Historic baseballs have recently fetched impressive sums. The baseball Red Sox catcher Carlton Fisk banged off the foul pole in the 1975 World Series sold for $113,373. The ball Barry Bonds hit for his 73rd home run went for $450,000. The most expensive baseball of all time is Mark McGwire's 70th homer, which went for $3 million. Mientkiewicz said he thinks the Boston's World Series ball has more value than a home run ball. "Those are important and all, don't get me wrong, but there are always going to be more home runs," he said. "This is something that took 86 years, and 86 years is a long time. Personally, I went through hell and back this year. But winning the World Series is something I'm going to remember for a long time." Mientkiewicz came to Boston from Minnesota in a three-team midseason deal that sent Boston shortstop Nomar Garciaparra to the Chicago Cubs (news). Mientkiewicz, who batted .215 for Boston, was used primarily as a late innings defensive replacement, and has indicated his unhappiness with the role. Boston broke its championship drought by beating the New York Yankees (news) in seven games in the AL championship series, then sweeping the St. Louis Cardinals (news) in four games in the World Series. After the game, Mientkiewicz said he put the ball in his locker, then gave it to his wife, Jodi, who put it in her purse. The next day, the ball was authenticated by Major League Baseball. Carmine Tiso, spokesman for MLB, told the Globe that Mientkiewicz owns the baseball, though Joe Januszewski, Red Sox director of corporate partnerships, said he thinks the team owns it. Mientkiewicz couldn't be reached for comment Thursday by the Globe after Lucchino said the club wanted the ball back. But on Wednesday, he left no doubt that he believes the ball belongs to him. "I know this ball has a lot of sentimental value," Mientkiewicz said. "I hope I don't have to use it for the money. It would be cool if we have kids someday to have it stay in our family for a long time. But I can be bought. I'm thinking, there's four years at Florida State for one of my kids. At least." Title: World Series Picks 4 teh Win! Post by: Shannow on January 09, 2005, 08:01:30 AM The 'ball' story is a complete load of nothing blown up by a boston hack who's been crying because he can't sell any more crappy 'curse' books.
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