f13.net

http://www.playgreenhouse.com/

(From wired (http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/04/penny-arcade-la.html))

Sounds like an Indy-oriented Steam...

Which means they either want it to be bought by steam or completely beaten in the market by steam.

Steam doesn't do Mac or Linux. That gives them plenty of room to thrive. There may only be 5 Linux gamers, but boy howdy are they desperate for entertainment. Or at least attention.

I thought it was a silly idea until the mention of it being - or attempting to be - platform independent.  A Steam-like service that works for Mac, PC, and all the consoles is a good idea.

A better idea, of course, would be just to get Steam to work on all platforms.

A crossplatform delivery service basically requires all games on it be cross platform.

It's pretty much a stillborn idea.

Steam plz. Anything else is just stupid.

Btw, I am PIRATING the PA game. I have no shame saying it. Zero. None. Pirating. And I hope they complain about piracy on the frontpage.

The problem with Steam is there are still Neanderthals who hate the fact that Steam is an application that lives on your computer. Not I, but I still hear a number of people kvetch about this. A simple web-based store is hard for people to hate too much.

They are still re-inventing the wheel, but I'm sure it will be a nice enough wheel, and the fact they are not running a publicly held company means they can try to do something interesting with the platform. Not to say they will, but there's a chance. I will be holding out for it to show up on Steam though. Download anywhere FTW!

I just wonder if Steam detractors run iTunes.

No, of course not, they are the supreme tech elite with an undying hatred of DRM. They use a version of WinAMP from before it was bought by AOL and corrupted by the corporations.

(http://madmikey.mu.nu/archives/Team%20America%20-%20Sean%20Penn.jpg)

I still use an old version of Winamp :(

Strangely enough, so do I.

I *used* an old version of Music Match.  Then Yahoo sent a patch though the auto-updater that disabled all old versions of Music match, so that you have to download their "we will share all data we collect" version.  Yeah, that sucked. It taught me about the "lifetime" of things you buy from DRM software in a very harsh way.  Thus, my aversion to Steam.

Why is iTunes different?  Because I can get around their DRM.  Sure, it's a roundabout way, but I'm never going to lose the music I buy from them the way I might lose the games I buy from Steam or DID lose the music I bought from MM.

At a certain point, if you have enough music WinAmp just won't cut it.  You really do need an audioplayer with decent database functions like iTunes or Amarok.  That's really my only reason for sticking with iTunes; sure it's a memory hog, but there just isn't a feature comparable audioplayer for Windows available.

no.

http://www.foobar2000.org/

Also, Winamp 5.x+ is a pretty good audio player. It doesn't handle fuck-all gigantic playlists so good though.

edit: also on the PA notSteam thing - who cares

I've used Foobar, and wasn't impressed.  You just can't slice and dice your categories enough, and I didn't like the layout too much.  Also, I've got something like 22,000 songs, and believe it or not, it still doesn't scale up for a huge library like iTunes does.

You tried the latest version? I mean, Jesus, the Windows Itunes is a piece of shit.

Yes.  I used to use foobar and it eventually got the point where it would simply choke on my library.  It's a fantastic player though if you don't use huge-ass playlists.  iTunes though sort of runs like molasses anyways but it never seemed to miss a beat moving between playlists.  That said, I have a Zune now, and I miss Smart Playlists like you wouldn't believe.

Here's an audio player I haven't used in forever but I'm pretty sure it can handle your obscene playlists.

http://www.deliplayer.com/

Does it have copy protection?  I hear that increases the number of pirates.  Arrrr!

Take a look at this image (http://www.deliplayer.com/index.php?frm=tour_base.html) and tell me how this is an improvement over iTunes?

I want a player that'll let me select all my blues songs, and just play those.  Or sort through David Bowie, and then just his albums from the 70's.  Deliplayer looks like it's a WinAmp knock off which is fine for limited collections, but for large collections you need to have database capabilities.  If they'd port Amarok to Windows I'd switch in a heartbeat, but until that day it's iTunes for me.

You're now on my watch list--it's a Torque game :P

Then I expect it for free. Because fuck PA. :awesome_for_real:

I don't understand hating things that are free.  Like webcomics. 

Today I noticed DiRT is on GameTap.

I don't understand wanting to play a game about a webcomic that he hates. Pirated or no, that just does not compute. The whole point of the game is to revel in the PA goodness.

I thought the whole point was to play a game Ron Gilbert worked on.

(http://songbirdnest.com/files/images/button_headphones.png) (http://www.songbirdnest.com/)


(http://www.songbirdnest.com/files/themes/gespaa_customized/images/songbird-05/screenshots/win-library.jpg)

You talking about the new game, or the one that you can get fro free of the GG website?

Yeah, Songbird is pretty close to perfect.  Still not bugfree, but when it gets a final release I'll probably switch over if nothing else has come out by then.

He means Penny Arcade in general--they touched him in a bad place.

Although he's not particularly excited about InstantAction either, which is a shame :P 300,000 (edited for clarity) registered accounts in a month and counting...and Legions is freaking amazing in a browser :)

Why does Songbird look exactly like iTunes except with a Vista makeover?

As to PA/Steam/whatever, isn't the browser-based GarageGames one also cross-platform?

And for indie games to be cross platform is not unpossible. Depends on the motivation and depth of the game. And whether there's an audience.

Not quite yet, but pretty close. Internal builds of the currently available games are working on Mac, and I think the next push or two of IA itself will make the IA API Mac compliant.

Nothing on linux at the moment.

It's also browser-based, while I don't believe the PA game is.

You mean "the browser-based GarageGames" is browser-based?  :grin:

Thanks Stephen. Good to know.

You're missing the point, smartarse. Digital delivery, whether cross-platform or not is a different beast to browser-based gaming.

He's exactly right by the way. While obviously digital delivery is an important aspect for the cost reduction and ease of use, comparing IA to Steam is a completely worthless act, since they have fundamentally different goals.

The best comparison you could probably do would be something like IA compared to XBoxLive, but with even greater focus on the concept of keeping groups of friends together to make their gaming experience smoother.

Oh, hehe, seriously thought you didn't read it. Sorry 'bout that.

But for the record, I wasn't comparing InstantAction with Steam (think someone else did). Rather, I mentioned it in reference to schild's "A crossplatform delivery service basically requires all games on it be cross platform" comment from before the derail into iTunes land.

If you've got a browser-based delivery system that features entirely browser-based games, particularly in Flash, you're a heck of a lot closer to "cross platform" as a user experience than Steam. Because for the most part these games aren't "delivered" in the download/install/launch sense. I mentioned IA in the form of a question because I didn't know how cross-platform it was on a specific-game level. My reference set is something like Addictingames.com.

Steam meanwhile is pure digital storefront featuring client applications, so the games are mostly what you get after using a fairly traditional development process but before the act of pressing to a CD-ROM and throwing into a box.  That's the part of schild's comment that is correct. This is analogous to Real Networks RealArcade, or iWin's system, or even some of the web-based portals that feature download/install games.

IA seems like it's in the middle. A cross-platform based distribution system (because that is web-based) that doesn't feature cross-platform games (because those are not).

Mostly correct-- in regards to IA--if the game itself cannot be played on a Mac (for example), then IA doesn't help--it could theoretically push the client down (we don't if the game client isn't compatible), but IA doesn't do anything that makes the game itself cross-platform.

This is where IA differs very much from Flash (although the IA api itself does -use- flash): it's not a "language" (I use that term loosely to describe a run time environment/virtual machine) at all--you could consider it an overlay in some ways that provides features on top of games, both input and output.

When you look at the pure technical details, games from IA don't run "in" IA like flash games would--they run through IA. We're struggling with the explanations ourselves, because there really isn't anything like what IA does anywhere in the market yet (although quite a few players have announced similar concepts recently).

The running "through" parts makes a lot of sense. Games bought on Steam I think still all require Steam to run them, but the level of integration is a per-program thing. For example, Peggle is really probably just doing a DRM call and uploading player stats to the Steam service. Meanwhile, TF2 is wholly integrated with the Steam player-matching and account management system. In both cases the community overlay is still there. It's just that the programs themselves "require" more or less from the infrastructure.

IA sounds like it leans more on the latter.

Anyone else pick up "On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness - Episode 1" which came out yesterday?  $20, about 230 meg download, and an activation code.  I only got about half-hour into it, but it actually seemed pretty solid .  Action timing bar RPG styles.  I am not a huge PA fan, but I think I may like this - but for fuck sakes, why didn't they go steam?

I'm planning on checking it out tonight or tomorrow. I'd like to give the Mac demo a spin first though.

I played the first hour last night and was pleased. It seems like a pretty solid adventure game, and there is plenty of fan service for the PA fans. I definitely wish it was on steam, but you can re-download it at anytime via the greenhouse, so it's not that big a deal.

Ditto. I played the demo and immediately upgraded to the full version (it's one of those nice unlockable dealies - no double-downloading). Works great on my Mac, so I'll save further play for the long planeflight I've got next week.

The writing alone is worth it, but there's a lot of neat touches, such as the 2D cutscene/dialogue format, which matches surprisingly well with the 3D main game. The character creator is also pretty sweet. My dude wears a top hat. :)

I was bummed I couldn't have long hair with my top hat. I went with a blue hobo motif. I was pretty darn happy with the way he turned out.

My only real complaint so far is the camera angle. I haven't figured out how to change it, or if I even can. I can see that bothering me endlessly while I play.

[edit] Fuck. Old thread.  :uhrr:

I just beat it. Not terribly long for even $20. It also crashed unexpectedly towards the end. It does look pretty good, and plays alright overall even if it's insanely simplistic. It's basically mediocre as a game, but entertaining due to the dialog/plot/characters. I imagine they kept it simple so they could avoid fucking it up, and they certainly avoided fucking it up. No reason to really play it again however.

What drives me fucking nuts is the dialog being like the bottom 1/5th of the screen. It disorients me looking down for the dialog for some reason.

I don't know if I missed something or if it's just how the game is played, but I didn't like the point-and-click combat mechanic and couldn't get the special attacks to work.  Would be great if there were keyboard shortcuts for attacking.  Did rather enjoy the demo, though.

Only $80 when all the episodes are complete?  What a bargain!

Look at the bright side - with no boxes-sales distribution they don't have to worry about manufacturing, pressing discs, printing boxes or retailer cuts of the final price! Just bandwidth.

No wonder they can offer the software at such a good value price point!  :drill:

Ah I dunno. I got to watch a giant Fruit Fucker squash my house in the first 2 minutes and wear a top-hat. The disembodied voice is witty as well. I admit to liking PA so perhaps I'm the target market but I quite like it.

I'm also enjoying it so far.  Not a huge PA fan, but they manage to make me laugh often enough.  $20 for a few hours of solid entertainment is not unreasonable for me (balanced against what it costs to see a movie in a theater, an experience that keeps getting worse and more expensive over the years).

I like PA too, but $80 in total for some reasonably short RPG-lite adventures seems a little... well...

So I might pick up the all-in-one version for $45 or $50 when the 4th episode comes out.

I finished it yet yesterday, and overall I'm pretty happy. The gameplay was far from revolutionary, but the art direction, story, and world are all top notch. I actually enjoyed the combat.The whole overkill mechanic was a nice way of adding an extra dimension to the fights, although by the time I maxed out my weapons, I didn't have enough bad guys to smack to finish maxing out my damage bonus. The single buff/debuff slot also made the boss fights fairly interesting.

It was well worth the money for me, but I can totally see it is not for everyone. Unlike TF2, which you are a godless nematode if you don't like it.  :awesome_for_real:

And now it is. (http://steamgames.com/v/index.php?area=app&AppId=18000)