f13.net

Yes, I'm going to catch a lot of shit for this one, but the title says it all.

I'd actually much rather get a tube HDTV, rather than LCD flat screen or whatever, just to keep the price down. Not that I have anything against LCDs, it's just that, when you get around 30" or so, the prices spike to $600+. If someone knows of a decent LCD set for a price I can live with, that's great, but I'm betting not.

Looking to spend around $400. My ~26 year old RCA is going. Plus, my poor 360 deserves better.

Also, I can live with just 1080i.

And, I kind of need to be able to pick it up in person, as there's not really anyone home during the day to accept a daytime delivery. Besides, shipping costs a lot for TVs.

Get a Gateway HD2400 and upgrade your computer at the same time.

It's worth the extra $100.

Erm, everything Google and Newegg spits back refers to an ATI card.

...what?

lol

Or did you mean the FHD?

http://www.gateway.com/accessories/product/1541351R.php?seg=hm

1920x1200
1:1 pixel mode
low refresh

Signal Inputs    
(1) HDMI
(1) Analog (VGA), 15-pin mini d-sub VGA
(1) Digital (DVI-D), 24-pin DVI-D
(1) Component
(1) Composite
(1) S-Video

Ports    4-port integrated USB hub (usb 2.0!)

I play pretty much all my games on it even though I have a 37" LCD in the other room.

I have it.
I love it.
My wife blames Schild.  And she hates him too.

Edit:  Olevia makes some nice cheapo HDTV's.  I have one in the bedroom that has a great great picture and loads of inputs.  Only 720p though.  Check into Vizio, maybe?

While that seems like a cool monitor...I need an actual TV. With a built-in tuner. And speakers.

I'm basically stuck getting this, if I cannot find something better. I might even be able to get an employee discount.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-27-Tube-HDTV-TX-T2793H/sem/rpsm/oid/177542/catOid/-12868/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-27-Tube-HDTV-TX-T2793H/sem/rpsm/oid/177542/catOid/-12868/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)

Not widescreen, so it's not ideal, but it's very affordable for me. I've been dealing with non-WS forever, so it's not a huge deal to me.

Or you could just save up some more money and not get a piece of shit.

That TV is 4:3.

Cable box, then run the sound through your PC line in?

Bleh, I was really set on getting one soon. I could hold off for another month and a half, and see how much cash I have sitting around. :|

Plus, I have a weird thing about not wanting to spend a shitton of cash on a TV. I don't need something big and great, just decent and working.


Then I am down to 1 display, while adding a recurring cost. And probably upping my cable service plan, because I just get the baseline service. Also, I have a smaller monitor as it is, with zero space for a larger display. Also, I run only headphones. Goofy outlet setup in this room, so I only have 1 outlet to use near my PC, which has my power strip for all my PC/TV stuff. I don't have anywhere to put the bigass plug block for my speakers (they're shitty speakers anyway).


edit: I should stipulate that I am not absolutely tied to the $400 mark. While I'd rather not shoot over it if I can help it, if I (or someone else) can find a Very compelling deal, but which costs more, I'd have to look at it. I technically have more than just $400, but sort of wanted to do some other things.

When working out how much we wanted to spend on a tv, my wife and I went a bit over our budget to get a better model. I did the same thing with my PC. Both were worth it, since we use both every day.

Just sayin'...

Oh, I understand what you are saying. $400 is ust a good number for me to start from.

I just got me one of these (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT2353H-23-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000N53SRE) for my office about 3 weeks ago and love it. I have an HDMI run from my HD satellite box and it has a great picture. It has a QAM tuner if you want to run cable straight into it. I also have a DVI to HDMI run from my comp to it and use it to dual monitor sometimes and it looks real good doing that too.  The sound kinda sucks though so I grabbed this (http://www.amazon.com/2-1-Channel-Personal-Speaker-System/dp/B000JKYSLS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204441262&sr=8-1) off of woot as it shows up there fairly regularly and now it sounds very good.

Try Craigslist. I got my 34" CRT widescreen HDTV off it for $300. There's a number of metropolitan areas near NJ, and at least one of them should have someone shedding a CRT HDTV for a newer technology.

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you're staying small, 720p might be all you need. I'd go so far to say that WS at a smaller size > 1080i/p.

Well, widescreen is a no brainer. Getting a CRT is just silly though. Really though, it comes down to this - only going to have one HDTV? Do it right. Get an LCD. Either get a kickass monitor and speakers (and a VCR at a pawn shop to be your tuner) - or get a 1080p Vizio. It's worth saving for. There's just no reason to dick around and need to upgrade later. Speaking of, about time I took my vizio back to Costco (grandfathered in with old warranty plan) and replace it with a 47" 1080p TV. Yay for Costco Investments!

I've looked at their, say, 32" unit, and it only does 1080i. I'd have to go to 42" to get 1080p. I do not have the room for something that big; something about 30" or so is the max I can fit in the only area the TV can go.

Also, always fucking hesitant about craigslist. Even when people have a pic of the unit, it's the manufacturer pic usually, not of the actual TV I would be buying.

Though, this one looks pretty good...

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/586451935.html (http://southjersey.craigslist.org/ele/586451935.html)

I'm gonna go ahead and say you need to bite the bullet and get one of these 32" Sammy LCDs (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Samsung-32-Series-3-LCD-HDTV-LN32A330/sem/rpsm/oid/206520/catOid/-12869/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do).  The picture and sound are fucking great and you can get a one year interest free deal at Circuit City.  The guys over avsforums rate this TV one of the best in its class too.  I'd bet your eye wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080i unless your face is pressed against it.

If you are sold on 1080i though, Circuit City has the interest free deal on all of their TVs as far as I know so it's worth looking there.


Edit:  Speiling

Well, what do the people here think? I've only ever had SD in my house. My of my gaming for my entire life has been on a 26 year old RCA set. Is it really worth looking around for a good 1080i set, or is 780p "good enough" if you're not going OMGTOPOFTHELINEBBQ?

720p is plenty good. Don't buy into the hype, particularly with a smaller set. There are also lots of issues more important than resolution including contrast ratio, picture quality, processing, etc.  I'd take a top quality 720p set over a crappy 1080p set any day of the week. Don't just rely on some number.  Plus, if you are going to watch it for television viewing, no one does 1080p (and won't any time soon) so you don't even need it. The only things that take advantage of 1080p are Blu-Ray and a tiny number of games.

I still recommend the Gateway and getting a decent speaker set.

Uh, that's why you use Craigslist locally, and ALWAYS physically go to inspect the unit before committing to a purchase. When I went to get mine, I brought means of payment, but I went in expecting to find out it was a lemon. You always, always, always request a demo of the unit, trying out the features you're interested in - e.g. source select, widescreen/4:3 toggle, etc.

If the unit sucks or wasn't what you're expecting, you walk away, out only a few bucks of gas.

To the general sentiment here: I got a CRT HDTV and, now that I'm moving, I regret it. If you have the means and can find a decent unit, go with a LCD HDTV. It'll fit better into a smaller space, which you've indicated is an issue. Further, at the sizes you're looking at, I agree with Abagadro. Go with 720p. You'll save cash on a feature that only the biggest graphicswhore will be able to detect.

But the cardinal rule to all of this is Inspect Before You Buy and always be willing to walk away.

I'll have to revisit this when I get my checks this Friday (Hopefully!) .

Costco has a 23" LCD TV 720p for $299 (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11263361&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US). Shipped only though. I recommended it for my aunt and she bought it to replace her monitor and TV.

OfficeMax has a Soyo 24" 1080p LCD w/ 2 watt speakers for $299 (http://www.officemax.com/omax/catalog/sku.jsp?skuId=21361009). Has VGA and DVI so no HDMI. You can get an HDTV tuner for $20-$40.

Those are decent units, but smaller than what I am looking for.

Also, unit Must have its own speakers ( I am Not dicking around with speakers, also, no outlet to put them in), and it MUST be able to receive a direct cable connection. I don't subscribe to the higher-end digital cable service, so we don't get a box. Therefore, cable goes right into the TV.

I assume if a spec says it has a NTSC or whatever tuner built in, that means it has a cable port?

Screw your cable company. Get a big antenna.

Or get dish. At that size of tv 720 will look fine.

With the money you're paying, demanding speakers and a certain quality of TV with a built in tuner/hd tuner is just a case of you being uninformed.

I stand by my recommendations. Save up more money and/or readjust your requirements.

We just upgraded to HDTV. We got the DirecTV HD DVR and a Vizio 37" We're very very happy, not just for the "real" HD content, but also with the widescreen and improved (480p) quality on DVDs and "zoomed" non-HD content. It did require some tinkering with the settings on the tv, but I found some suggestions on the internet.

I was reluctant for a long time to go LCD, but we're both really glad we did. The picture is very very clear. Plus, it's a huge honking thing and I can't imagine that in a tube. It would weigh more than my car.

I don't think cable even carries HD content without a box do they? Locally, they had like 3 channels and everyone (Directv included) seems to ding you an extra 5-10 dollars for HD.

The sammy I linked above has a built in QAM tuner, meaning you don't have to have a digital cable box to get digital cable (although a box is required for HD content).  Analog cable is being phased out in the U.S. as I understand it so everything will be digital soon.  You'll either need a box or a TV with a QAM tuner.

I've ranted about this before in other threads over the years but I stand by my statement of the human eye not being able to tell higher resolutions on smaller sized screens at a reasonable viewing distance.  On 42" screens and smaller, you are wasting your money paying more for a resolution higher than 720p.  My main living room TV is a 42" plasma that is actually ED (480p) and I'll be damned if you can tell any difference between the 720p model unless you put your face up close to it (I tested this in the store prior to purchase) and even then you only really see the difference in text.  Granted it is a Panasonic and their plasma screens are quite good quality. 

I have that 32" sammy LCD as my secondary gaming room TV and it is perfect both in terms of picture and sound.  I can't imagine ever needing a receiver because this thing goes plenty loud (with simulated surround sound) and has enough inputs to support digital cable, Wii, 360, and PS2.  Spreading out $750 over the course of a year, interest free, for a TV like that is clearly the way to go in my opinion.  You'll be set for years.

Digital broadcast is mandated, but all digital cable is years and years away. Most "digital cable" is 20 or so digital channels on top of 50 or so (more popular) analog ones and very few companies have any plans to change this.

I had the ill luck to be put on the local cable tv advisory committee and the single issue we heard about from citizens more than any other was that they did not want to have a cable box. They want and love their snowy wasteful analog cable.

It's killng cable because they have this large installed base of non-techies who are STB averse, but they're out of space on their systems. One analog signal = 2 HDTV signals = 10 digital standard channels.

Cable TV is really starting to suck ass, at least in my area.  My bill kept going up and up every few months, and when I call to ask what I'll be getting for the additional money they can't think of anything.  Apparently it's costing them more and more to license the channels.  So Sunday I signed up for DirectTV.  I'll be getting a metric fuck ton more channels (90+ HD channels versus 12 or so with cable) and my monthly bill will be a whopping $30 cheaper.


Interesting, I did not know that.

Yeah, I agree. I know I'm looking at something more like $550-700...ish. I MIGHT even go a smidgen higher if I can finance it at 0% for a year. But not too much higher, as I don't need another sizable bill each month to fuss over.

So, that being said, what I need is:

26"-32" WS LCD. I don't need 1080 i/p, so 720p is just fine.

Must Have built-in speakers.

Must Have built-in tuner to accept a straight coax cable connection.

Either something I can buy locally (southern NJ), or online with CHEAP, but reliable, shipping. Getting a decent deal, then paying $50+ for shipping usually doesn't make much sense to me.

$700? Get a Vizio. Thread over.

http://www.vizio.com/products/detail.aspx?pid=18

Just for the record, 720p is better than 1080i. And it's strange that there are tv's out there that do 720p, but not 1080i. Usually the shitty ones just do 1080i, but not 720p.


Anyways, what schild said.

Yeah, I've been looking Hard at that TV.

And, I may know a Circuit City guy, so...Discount! :grin:

Also, Sears, heh.

I just think CoD4 and Mass Effect and such deserve to be played in all their glory...within financial reason.

Edit: So, is there really any other sensible options at this price range?

Also, should I bother with warranties? Any tips on how I should "use" them?

Warranties are how Circuit City and the like make all their money. Don't do it.

Be sure to check avsforum (http://avsforum.com/) for their opinions on any model you're interested in before buying.  They know their shit.

Samsung 26" for 689 (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT2653H-26-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000N5239I/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204692920&sr=8-5)

Samsung 32" for 799 (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-LNT3253H-32-LCD-HDTV/dp/B000N50S3Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1204693390&sr=1-1)

With free ship and no tax you will likely come out ahead of any deal you can get through CC.

The form-factor on the 53h series is really slick and the picture is very good. Some great calibration settings available on avsforum as well.

EDIT: Visio's are okay for lower cost tvs, but they lack the contrast ratio and the processing of the better sets that you can get for an extra hundred and fifty bucks in that size. I also happen to think the form factor is butt ugly.

EDIT2: fixed 32" link

Ooh, damn. I have one of those, but paid a lot more for it. Definitely some of the better 26-32" lcd's around (either model -- afaik, no other brands have that contrast ratio in those sizes).

Be careful comparing contrast ratios, there's no standard for it, so each company measures it a different way. Contrast ratio is only good for comparing same brand, different model TVs.

I just picked up a 32" inch vizio to throw on my bedroom wall and while it's not as nice as my KDL-40V2500 downstairs, I _really_ can't complain about it.   Especially once I spent some time calibrating it.  You certainly get what you pay for, but the Vizio really is a nice entry level box. 

All I know is that when I went shopping around, those Samsungs (when they came out at least) looked better than every other lcd model. Then the specs jumped out at me. Definitely better than my other lcd as well (a panasonic).

That being said, the speakers are atrocious, if one cares about that sort of thing.

I have two Samsung LCDs and the image on them is top notch. The speakers, as you say, are not. I have them both running through a couple of Yamaha receivers though, so that didn't matter to me.

At least at CC, the difference between the Vizio and the Samsung is about $100, before tax.

Tough Choices.

Don't know if still on, but 37" Vizio at the local Costco here were selling for ~$750… …was looking at TVs as my 10 year old 56" rear projection HD "dinosaur" set is on its last legs, though it generally works well once its warmed up and the colors still arn't too bad but definitely as a shiny new Vizio (or better model). The 37" didn't do 1920x1020 (or whatever the exact spec is) and really, probably looking at 47" model minimum… …though the big question for the Naum household is not the TV but what to put it on, since the existing TV is a piece in itself…

I picked up a 50" Sony LCD model with UV backlighting, 720P.  I'm more than happy with it. I calculated that for someone with normal vision to actually need 1080P for a TV (rather than a monitor) it would take a minimum of an 80 inch screen.  It was just before Black Friday and I got a discontinued floor model for $585.  Got them to throw in a cheap-ass home theater receiver to drive the permanently wall-mounted speakers for $25 more (another clearance floor model).  50" was the minimum for a picture with the same vertical height as my old 36" tube.  That was a 150 pound monster I dropped on the floor while trying to vacuum, still works but the case is all cracked, it's the kid's game TV now.  New one weighs less than 25 pounds.

Stick to the 50-60" range, don't worry about whether it can drive all your speakers (you're going to want a receiver anyway if you go that route), make sure it has at least 1 (preferably 2) HDMI inputs, and at least 2 component video inputs, one on the side, and an audio out pair.  Get a progressive DVD player that can upsample to 720P (it will need one of the HDMI inputs), don't waste money buying HD-DVD's that are going to be obsolete in 5-10 years.

And if you're one of those idiots high-taste audiophiles that buy Monster Cables for your speakers, just send me $100 bills and I'll send you back something just as good, 1 for 1.

My friend just bought the Sony W series 52" (lcd). Definitely the shit. Kind of surprised what the prices are on these things (around $2500). Kind of strange that you say your 50" weighs 25 lbs though, Dave. This tv isn't much bigger, but it definitely weighs more than that.

Not to mention the price you got a 50" for... Is there a typo there??

Nope.  I got this TV (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDF-50E2000-Grand-Projection-Television/dp/B000G5WGYW) from Circuit City, discontinued, floor model, for $585.  It might be a bit more than 25 pounds, but not much (apparently it's like 50-60 pounds.  It felt a lot lighter, but I had just dragged 150 pounds of CRT up the stairs).  It says "Rear Projection", but it's not really, there's some funkiness going on with a bright UV lamp flourescing a light-box.  It's got pixel-perfect sharpness, no noticable dimming either at the edges or when viewing from 70 degrees off-axis to the side (get much above the set and it dims, but I've got it up on a buffet table).

My wife makes a great tag-team partner in a price negotiation, she did the "do we really need a new TV, honey?" bit and got it down from $750.  I also got a Toshiba upscaling DVD for $65.  *Before* Black Friday is the best time to buy high end electronics, they're trying to dump old floor models for less than cost.  They had a decent Samsung DLP 50" 1080P for $900, also.  DLP doesn't work well when you have kids trying to watch from the sides (bad edge dimming more than 30 degrees off axis), and 1080P is pointless at those screen sizes, anyway.

--Dave

The shipping weight says 78 lbs, so it's at least 50. Sounds about right.

Anyways... not sure why you say 1080p is pointless at 50". 1080p was meant to benefit 50" and larger screens.

Normal visual resolution is about 1/30th of a degree.  On a 50" set at 10' (which is almost exactly my viewing distance), the screen height will be about 24 degrees of your visual field, and at 720 pixels each pixel will be exactly 1/30th of an degree.  For a 1080P to be worth it, you have to be either sitting significantly closer, or it has to be a significantly larger set.

--Dave

On 1080p as a monitor: sure, it'd be great (I have a 720p set). But you'd need future hardware to get solid framerates with bells+whistles on a demanding game. 720p can stress my 8800 GTX, which is factory overclocked to 621/1000.

Any other opinions on this? A year or so ago our old 1999 DVD player finally died and I ran out and got a Best Buy Special RCA DRC200N. While improbable for a $30 player, it turned out to have progressive scan and it's connected with component video right now. Blu Ray is still a little pricey. I know the Vizio's (I have the 37") upscaling isn't all that great, do people think a moderate upscaling player would be at all signifiant? I was looking at the $70 Philips one.

If you're watching a letter-boxed wide-screen DVD that's been zoomed on a 16-9 widescreen, you've basically got about 360 pixels worth of video stretched across the vertical.  Your TV will just add same-color pixels in the same rows to fill it out, making it look blocky and low-res.  A good upsampling DVD player will add the extra lines using smoothing and aliasing, it won't add any detail that wasn't there but it will make it look much better.  The downside is that you have to use an HDMI cable, and if you buy them in the consumer electronics stores those can cost $50.  You can get them online, or at Fry's, for around $10.

--Dave

I just go to the local Time Warner building where they distribute cable boxes, and ask for hdmi cables. Free of charge. I'm sure anyone could do the same.

Closet thing for me would be comcast and they like to charge for everything known to man.  Much simpler to go online to Monoprice and order a few cables there for dirt cheap.

monoprice.com is awesome, I've gotten all my cables and my tv mounts from them.

Think I am pretty set on the 32" Vizio, at $629. I'll probably pick it up Saturday. Hopefully I won't have problems.


I really wish I wasn't such a wuss and could stomach buying a TV over the web....some INSANE deals, if they are to be believed. I just cannot imagine the dread and hassle of having a problem and having to return it.

For the record, this is not true of all televisions; some will do a good job, some won't.  You generally get what you pay for.

However, the same cannot be said of HDMI cables.  For short cable runs (around 6' or so) there's no difference between the stupid-expensive brands and the cheap stuff in regards to signal quality.  Just look for one with good connectors & strain relief.  I paid around $20 for each of mine.

Looking at TV measurements, I may have to move my 360 off the shelf.

Should I be concerned if I have to put the thing on my desk, next to my CRT monitor? My current set is only 26".

Picked up my new baby today. Looks fantastic, and fits nicely in the spot I had my old relic

Old relic is sadly out on the curb. Anyway....

Now it makes me think I need to actually spring for, you know, Real Cable, and a box and shit. The built-in tuner pulls in All Kinds of Shit, but unfortunately, my 3 favorite channels will continue to look shitty without access to the HD versions being pumped through HDMI.

At least the 360 looks Fan-Fucking-Tastic, even through component (I don't have HDMI cables yet). Even the menus look fucking splendid.

You'll want to keep in mind that, unless I'm mistaken, not all X-Boxes have HDMI support.  The elite versions do, but I think the original release versions do not. 

I have a Nov-07 build. Pretty sure I have the port.

All new ones have HDMI. Or should, by now.

Go here for cables. Best prices for great cables around:

http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp