f13.net

I'm going out of town this weekend, starting Friday. I'll be in the lovely town of Baton Rogue, LA for a miniature wargames tournament. I think I'm looking good this year. I've had plenty of practice with my Later Hungarian army against my buddy, who is one of the top players in our area. I even won a game against him. :) Considering it was only my second victory against him, in about 5 years of games, I'd say I am doing well. Now if only my dice won't desert me like they did last year.

Needless to say, I'll be off the boards til Monday morning. Not that I make much contribution on weekends, but if anyone tries to get me between now and then, they'll be SOL.

Wish me luck!

GL and have fun in the cultural Mecca.

LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT, LIGHTNING BOLT!

Good luck.  Seems like that might be a fun hobby.  Of course, the expense and hygiene concerns are a barrier for me trying it. And I think there are only certain levels of nerdiness my wife is willing to accept.

Have fun. May the Hungarians whoop much ass.

Good luck!  You've put in the time and should do pretty well down there.  If everything goes to hell, at least you're someplace with good food.  

Oh and put some Vicks under your nose after the first day... you'll thank me later.

I quit playing Warhammer 40k because of an ex. Now I have an entire Tyranid army. Meh. Should really break them out and get back into the game with friends.

I concur, this sounds like a ton of fun.



That's why I don't have a wife anymore.

She's worth it :).  I've got too many damn interests clogging up my life as is.

Out of curiosity, exactly what wargame are you playing?  Hungarian seems to rule out the standard Warhammer and WH40K.

Old school.  Aren't we supposed to just start calling him, "Colonel," in honor of the "Lost"  character?



Do like I did. Marry a nerd and figure out what games you both like. Common interests > all.  I'm just glad I found that out before I got married.

Good luck to ya, Haemish, and follow Nebu's advice. Recall the story of the stench at the last gaming convention folks covered here. (Lum, maybe?)  Hungarians? "Buzmeg, Magyar 4 teh win!"

Good to hear.

If I ever get me one of them wife-thingies ever again, then Mrs. Ardent #2 will have to have a better understanding of my gaming obsessions that Mrs. Ardent #1 did.

Ha, that was the first thing I thought as well. I used to have a whole bunch of minitures way back in the day, but I could never get past the nerd factor and actually play. I guess thats why I got into smoking pot, drinking, and dating girls several years older than me.

Cant say I regret the choice ether.

Schild: so desperate to be in touch, yet so desperately out of touch.

table top miniatures are one of the oldest and noblest hobbies in history. Then again, he probably thought you were going to a warhammer convention.

Historical is totally the way to go.  Fuck this shit where one set of rules requires a particular set of miniatures.  Get a dirt-cheap historical army in your favorite scale and then take your pick of rulesets.

I like to play little green army men with my son.  Does that count?

Rules are simple.  Aim at other soldier and say "pkewwwwshhhhh."  If you say it first, the other one falls down crying in pain for 2 minutes.  Then they grab the next closest soldier to exact revenge.

Sweet.

So you aren't using the optional indirect fire "lob a marble to simulate a mortar shell" rules?

Bruce

BRING BACK PRE-PKEWWWWWWSHHHHHING BITCH!~!

I have always been intrigued by wargames, but have never gone beyond the Avalon Hill-style games.  Between my obsessive MMOG and Civ-series play, I am already a little nerdy for my tastes, I fear.  My brother and I play Axis and Allies (poorly) once in a while, but I know that is bush league compared to this stuff :)

Good luck.

That's a level 2 skill.  He's at level 1.  No powerleveling under my watch!

Level 3 is the "Use magnifying glass to melt head" skill.  It's our cheap version of frikkin lasers.

My era of choice is Napoleanic ships and my second favorite is WW2 naval fleets.

reason: the terrain is so damned cheap and easy to make!

Not to mention the fact that you can do simulations in the bathtub.  

I used to play a ton of wargames through college and considered myself a diehard Avalon Hill junkie.  Squad Leader, Panzer Blitz, and Third Reich were my favorites and covered strategy from the individual to the company to the division/attrition level.  I never made the leap to miniatures though... seems like playing with cardboard chits is ok but metal replicas made you a geek. It's a fine line between what people consider ok and geek-dom.  I can see the fascination in miniature gaming and can imagine that it makes for a very fun weekend!

I must admit this is a level of geekdom I don't fully comprehend since I've never seen it before. Does anyone have pictures or rules of such games? Perhaps links that describe the types of games and purpose, or how these games are played?

How long does one game take anyway? Is it like Risk?

The closest to wargaming I have ever come was a game called Mighty Empires by Games Workshop. The best part of that game was creating the map, the rest was just gravy.

I think I should wish you good luck even though I have no idea what the heck you are doing.   I hope you win or live or something.  Being the concerned and interested friend, I did google this.  Unfortunately, upon entering the site I began to doze off and fell off my chair.  Eventually, I got up but the website had marched off somewhere.  I can't be arsed to find it again.  

Is THIS the sort of thing we're talking about:

(http://www.warweb.com/rules/grarm_back_s.jpg)

Good luck regardless of what you are doing.

Wow, I thought I was the only one left who still played historical miniatures. I'm guessing this is either DBA, DBM, or WRG 7th?

I'm a huge DBA fan. 1066 Normans or Alexandrian Macedonians...

Agreed.  You can't bust out "Lightning Bolt" everytime something you think is remotely nerdy comes up.  It has to involve LARPing in some form.

Back on topic, good luck to you Arc.  Nothing more important than having work you look forward to doing.  Can't imagine having a 2.5 hour commute.  I get pissy when bad traffic stretches mine out to 45 minutes.  The extra free time alone is more than worth the reduced pay.

I'm guessing there are better odds that they'll let you wear the hat at this job as compared to a DoD job.  You're the manager now, make it part of the unifrom.

Good luck mate!

Oh - and don't make the same mistake someone else did - make sure you commit enough ground troops to do the job :)

Remotely nerdy? Oh jesus fuck. Adults playing with little miniatures and pretending it's war is ABOUT AS NERDY AS IT GETS. Just because you think it's cool doesn't mean it's not on about the same level as LARPing.

That said, I also would play table top games if I had more time, and loved playing them when I did. But, I'm not going to pretend that it's any less ridiculous than that lightning bolt video.

Edit: In fact, I may very well get back into tabletop games. I'm remembering how much fun I did have with them. Though...Kamigawa comes out on the 25th. Decisions, decisions.

Don't do it schild.  Pewter crack is only slightly less addictive than cardboard crack.

EDIT : Silly Haemish, if you don't tell us what game, we can't wish you luck.

Personally I've got a Warmachine tournament tomorrow morning.  Should only be a 2h drive or so though :)

Warmachine is some kind of Steampunk derivitave right?  I saw it at Origins earlier this year, it looked cool.

I've been playing miniatures games for years, the only problem I find lately is the lack of time to actually sit down for 6 hours and play a game.

I have been looking for a good WWII minatures system and recently ran across http://www.battlefront.co.nz/.  Looks pretty interesting, hope to pick some up soon.

Essentially, yes its a steampunk deritivate.  Its very character-centric and often the commander can walk through a lot more men than in a game like 40k or the like

Oh and at the tournament I was at today we had 60 minute rounds and were actually able to finish games about half the time (most of the time 90m -2h is about the normal game time)

Skirmish sized games = win

I used to play WWII micro-armor. After initially playing skirmish rules, I switched to the Command Decision rules (5-1), which allowed me to play out larger battles. Between the folks that I played with, we never did have enough Russian armor to fully represent all the Kursk defensive lines, though I had enough German armor myself for the Operation Citadel armored forces. A good deal of my record collection was financed by the sale of my armor collection. I kept my meticulously painted British 7th Armored Division.

Ahh, memories.  We actually had a wargaming club at my high-school.  We had a whole section in the back of one of the graphic arts class rooms all to ourselves and access to all the tools you need to make kick ass maps and paint minatures.  We played all kinds of games there.

Usually because of time restraints we just ended up playing Axis and Allies over and over again.  I don't even know how many classes I missed trying to get a round in before class or during lunch or just ditching class all together to play.

I don't think the vast majority of the school even knew there was a wargaming club.

Miniatures begat Chainmail.

Chainmail begat D&D.

I trust you can draw the family tree from there on your own.

I tried, but all I got was a trunk.

Chess begat Miniatures...

Got more root there Lum.  Any thing before chess?  Go?

Also, has anyone played Harpoon?  I used to visit a hobby shop in Pensacola when I was in highschool and they would have a big game of harpoon most saturday afternoons.  Five or Six guys in there forties/fifties in there for hours.  Looked damn interesting and I got the first computer version that came out and promptly got my ass handed to me six ways from Sunday.

Backgammon begat Chess...

I believe that was the first board game unless I'm mistaken.

You are.

Aren't you going to enlighten us?

Yes, I am indeed. Further research indicates that it was in fact a game known as the "Royal game of Ur" supposedly dating further back than 2500 BC, as the oldest complete game.

Also Senet, played by the Egyptians is included in the running for its age and finds in tombs supposed dating back to 3100 B.C.E.

EDIT: I have a feeling Roac just wanted to be snarky.

"Although many countries claim to have invented it, the preponderance of evidence is that chess originated from the Indian game Chaturanga, about 1400 years ago. "

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess#History.

Note also that "checkmate" is from the Persian words "shah mat" , meaning "the king is dead".  Always thought that was cool.

Not wanting to be.  It's just irksome when someone tries to pass something off as fact without a lot of research.  Without cracking a book (or an internet page), you know modern backgammon isn't the oldest boardgame ever.  Nor was backgammon an ancestor to chess; there is very loose evidence that they shared a common ancestor, but geography is going to be an issue, since backgammon has strong eastern ties (Messopotamia) while chess has far east ties (China).

That's cool. Perhaps a dumb question but does that raise the possiblity that the origins of the word 'checkmate' and somewhat different from those of the two seperate words 'check' and 'mate'? I've never thought about the word 'checkmate' as its own word and now I'm intrigued.

Interestingly (and I didn't know this), the word "check" in most all senses does date from "shah"  (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=check), even the monetary instrument in the sense of "a check (preventative measure) against theft".

Mate, though seems to have just come along for the ride.  The primary sense of "mate" derives from the proto-germanic "(ge)maton", "having food together" (ibid).

Looks like they do have different origins, although they're both Persian.  The word "check" comes from the financial meaning of check/chque (Persian 'chek').

I may not be doing any work but damnit I'm learning!

So the mate we use today in its seperate form (ie mate = friend, or to mate etc) is a germanic word.

But wait, is it 'shah mat' or 'chek mat'? The plot thickens! And is mat truely the persian word for king? And does it have a derivative in a language today? (Monarch?)

Im still boggled that I never thought long enough about the word checkmate to consider it anything but a conjuction of the words 'check' and 'mate' (and realise how that makes no sense in the first place).

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=check) agrees with me (about the middle of the page).

The word "shah" does have its analog today: remember in the 70's, the leader in Iran was called the "Shah (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/16/newsid_2530000/2530475.stm)"?  

Though I'm not sure if that was the traditional title, or whether he just chose it based on history (much like the current country of Macedonia isn't the same as the old one).

Edit: "mat" isn't the word for king, shah is.  Mat just means dead.  Which may or may not have led to the Spanish word matar, "to kill".  Not too unlikely if you remember that Spain was occupied by the Islamic Caliphate for quite a bit of time.

DEFENDER OF THE INTERNET!!!

<applaud>

EDIT: Oh and just to add further facts, ancient backgammon is the oldest board game known although only similar to our modern version, and early chess was supposedly invented in India and migrated to China.

I know crap about the game, but whenever I think of china the game Go comes to mind, which seems to fall along the same lines as chess as a game of logic and strategy.

No, I just deride stupid comments people make, for great justice.  The fun facts (tm) are to try and get real conversation.



Senet is nothing like modern backgammon.  We don't know the rules of Senet, but look at the board.  It is possible that it's an ancestor to backgammon, but the same can be said for chess.  That is, chess and backgammon are siblings at best, unrelated at worst.

Meh, I just realized I was in a pissing match over historical board games, and that was enough to remind me that there are better things to worry about. Touche on the points.

It's amazing that this thread started out being about miniature wargaming and actually managed to get nerdier.  Bravo.

Yes.. at this point I think Schild is right about the nerd point...

I'm back. I was actually back late Sunday, but missed work yesterday so no posting for me.

I ended up with 15 points out of a possible 60. There were about 20 players, and I think I was somewhere in the middle of the pack. I won 1 game 15-0, and lost the other 3 games 0-15, but felt like in all but the first game, I was competitive. The first game was against the local region's biggest asshole alive. It was at 9 am and I didn't wake up for the first 4 or so turns, at which point I'd already fucked up bad enough that my entire left flank was crumbling. Morning games own me.

It was a historical miniatures wargame, using 15mm scale miniatures, and a ruleset called DBM or De Bellius Multitudinis. Some information on the ruleset can be found here (http://tetrad.stanford.edu/DBM.html) as well as links other pages on the subject. It covers most historical armies from Biblical Periods up to the late 15th century, about the time firearms began to proliferate among armies of the world in sufficient numbers. My Later Hungarians were about 1490 AD. The rules allow you to play against non-historical opponents, thus facilitating balanced tournament play. I had games against 2 Medieval German armies from about 1420 AD, a Chrsitian Nubian army from the 500 AD period (that was the one I triumphed in), and a Later Carthaginian army (not Hannibal's army, but one from his father's time period say 250 BC).

Signe's picture had the right type of miniature gaming, though that looks like either Seven Years War or Napoleonic time periods.

Those interested in miniature games that aren't GW would do well to check out The Miniatures Page (http://theminiaturespage.com/), which has links to web sites, index of rule sets for different time periods, etc. I was a lot more knowledgeable about the hobby before MMOG's started sucking up all my free time. :)

EDIT: I forgot, there was also an adjunct Warhammer 40k tournament in a different room of the hotel. The room smelled like catass. The historical room was much less pungent. Historical gamers get a bad rap because our biggest con, Historicon, is traditionally in a terribly ventilated shitty location.

What's a Nubian?

(http://www.dignubia.org/maps/timeline/img/b3200-nubian-bowmen.jpg)

I was thinking more like this-

(http://www.newsaskew.com/va5/dwightewell.jpg)

Most of the images google came up for Nubian were naked chicks. Thanks again google, for proving that I can enter anything remotely female and come up with NSFW images at my desk.

I had to google all this stuff.  I can't stand not knowing about things that everyone else seems so familiar with, and I have to say, it looks like a lot of fun.  Considering some of the plans and strategies I came across, I'm sure the room would have been filled with flying soldiers in a pretty short time if I were to take up a hobby like this, though.  I have the same anger management issues when I play Risk, too.  Obviously, world domination takes a cool head and a steady hand.

And then you got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!

Oh you'd fit quite well in with the WHM40k kiddi...I mean players..

I think one player who was playing the friend I went with actually did toss a die across the room. But for the most part, I've had much much more "sedate" and friendly games playing DBM and other historical games than the games I had with my supposed friends in WH40k (and other GW games). The rules have a lot less cheese, a lot more subtle strategies. Not that DBM is easy to read: computer programmers could teach the author's lessons in concise language. Since it isn't a game tied to a specific figure line, it's much harder for a newbie to learn about the game, pick the right figures for his chosen army and learn to play than saw Games Workshop with its ready-made one-stop shop approach. Playing competitively is even more difficult, requiring lots of practice. I've been playing for about 7 years now, with some dead time in there for EQ addiction. Even at my most n00bish, I still had fun in all but the games I played against the very few asshole players I've met.

Yeah, historical miniatures players are far and away much cooler than your typical GW kid.

A very similar demographic would be Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) players.  A game I find myself quite enthralled with as of late. And, there's no painting!!

Glad you had fun Haemish.  Did you have to travel far?  Where was the tourney?  The only time of year I get to play these types of games competitively is at Origins here in Columbus during the summer.

EDIT:  Spelling is very very hard.

A website is created that hosts forums whose dedicated purpose is to house bitching about why the posting crowd feels the online fantasy/sci-fi game of their choice doesn't fit their needs, but like a crack addict, can't find a better poison.  It's not bad enough to play games to detach ourselves from reality, but we get on forums to talk about the method by which we detach ourselves from reality.  I think the deck is pretty well stacked against us.

I've seen reports that pro sports players play MMORPGs. I haven't seen a report that they are really into miniature games. Surely they can't be total nerds....or can they?

I embrace my inner nerd with pride, displaying my geek on a distinguished shroud of dork.