f13.net

This would probably go better in the private forum, but until I actually get into Bat Country, I can't read the replies there.

So, I want some fititng advice for a Vexxor.

I have the skills to field 5 lights or 5 medium drones at a time, and can range them out to 50+km. I can also field light or medium ECM drones, but if I want to fit more than 2 medium ECMs I have to ditch some of my combat drones.

So here's what I was thinking (this is rough based on my missioning setup, and forgive me if I can't recall the proper medium/low slots).

1600 plate
T2 medium armor rep
Damage Controls I
Decent Afterburner
Cap recharge booster (can't recall the name of it).

Need to replace: I currently run a shield booster (some missions I can even shield tank with that thing) and an invulnerability field. Probably ditch both, freeing up some slots. In the highs I fit two salvagers, a tractor, a small nos, and a remote armor rep. I could throw in a drone link augmentor, but do I really need the other 20k of drone range? I've got scout drones 5/5 and Electronic Warfare drones 3/5.

I was thinking for highs: Keep the small remote armor rep in the turret-less slot. For the other four -- four light nos? Medium/light nos combo? Energy neutralizers?Or should I try to fit medium hybrids? (My gunnery skills aren't great -- maybe 700k sp in gunnery).

Any ideas? I've got my support skills (Electronics, Engineering, Hull Upgrades, Mechanic, etc) all to 5/5, so I'm pretty maxed out in terms of grid and CPU. As long as it doesn't require rigs, if a Vex can fit it I can fit it.

I figure as a Vex pilot with heavy drone skills I can either get close, latch on and do the cruiser version of a Nos Domi (let the drones kill, use the nos to keep the armor tank going) or I can fit guns and go balls-to-the-wall damage.

Can you squeeze a MWD on there in lieu of the AB? Prior to Trinity I'd also say put a RSD or two in there but they're a little weak nowadays. Might as well put a warp scrambler in there as well, tbh - no, you won't be the main tackler but you never know when you'll need just one point on a target.

Maybe. I'd have to check the fittings -- I've got the basic skill for MWDs (like 1/5) -- but haven't used it. I think the MWD skill reduces cap use, not grid or CPU requirements. If I'm too short, I can probably make some tradeoffs. (Not dumping plate, though. God it's a great armor tank) I can certainly fit a scrambler, though.

I can certainly see where a MWD would come in handy, though.

RSD I don't recognize. What's that?

I could also fit some specific resist plate on there, but I figured that was pretty pointless for PvP.

RSD = Remote Sensor Damper. Reduces enemies scan resolution & targetting range. Used to be the obvious "Welp, I've got a spare midslot - may as well fit something" choice but got nerfed in Trinity.

For resists, look into an EANM paired with your DC. You also might want to try twin small armour reps (named out of preference, TII if you have the skills) instead of a single medium.

Oh yeah, EANM's -- I've got an EANM II fitted now (I think), since I'm nowhere near needing rat-specific resists. I could move to twin armor reps (I use a t2 medium now, I'd like to see costs before I spring for T2 anything on a PvP ship for bat country -- I'm certainly not using T2 drones unless someone is giving them away). What does that buy you over using a single medium, though?

A RSD might not be bad. I think I'll scrounge around Verge for the fittings for a cheap PvP Vex, and play with fittings. I can always haul what I buy out to Bat Country.

Okay, I have a few possibilities:

Armor Tank:
Lows:
Medium armor rep 1
1600 mm Crystalline Plate
EANM
Damage Control 1

Mids:
Warp Scrambler I
Afterburner
Cap Recharger

Highs:
Either 4 small nos/Drone Link Augmenter (subject to price check. Small remote armor repper otherwise) rep OR 4 150mm rails (small hybrid)/1 DLA.

OR I can trade teh 1600 plate for a 800mm plate, change the AB to a 10MN MWD, and fit the DLA and three dual 150mm Rails (medium hybrids) (leaving a high slot open) OR fit the DLA 1 Med Nos and 3 small Nos.

I'm leaning towards the first setup, with probably the 4 small Nos. 4 small rails will screw frigs, true, but I can always dump scout drones for that too.

Any thoughts?

   Light Neutron Blaster II x4
   E50 Prototype Energy Vampire 1

   J5 Prototype Warp Inhibitor I 
   X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 1 
   10MN MicroWarpdrive I

   Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
   Medium Armor Repairer II
   800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
   Damage Control II


Basically, get up in their face...scram and web em....let your drones and light guns chew em up. Kinda depends on what you can run tech 2 wise though, and your fitting skills.

If a Vex can fit it, I can fit it -- except possibly on the gun end, since I've on the gunnery end I've got moderate skills with light and medium hybrids and a few supporting skills, and nothing else (I have no idea, without looking, if there are gun skills that reduce cap/grid/cpu requirements for guns). I'm trying to avoid fitting too much T2 stuff since I'd prefer to fly a bit more disposable.

Gunnery skills:
Controlled Bursts 3/5
Gunnery 5/5
Medium Hybrid Turret 2/5
Motion Prediction 2/5
Rapid Firing 3/5
Sharpshooter 2/5
Small Hybrid Turrets 3/5
Weapon Upgrades 2/5

It wouldn't take long to up Battle Cruisers enough to fly a Myrmidion, if you need someone in a BC. I figured a Vex was a little lower-profile and easier to lose while I got the hang of things.

Ah gotcha. Honestly, all those fits seem solid in their own way. For me, the dual repper is kinda overkill because without your web the guy is probably going to escape anyway (in a one on one situation). I'd think an 800 or 1600 plate would be the best bang for your buck, throw some drones and light guns on...and go killin :)

I was going with a single medium repper, 800 or 1600 plate, and defintely a warp disurpter. Or a scrambler. Hell, which is which again?

I like your setup, but I'd probably go with the quad 150mm light rails and see if I can keep the drone link augmentor. Or heck, I could be in Battlecruisers inside of two hours. :)

Disrupter is 20k, scram is 7500.

Depending on your drone skills, Brutix may be the way to go. Nothing like throwing on a bunch of turrets and saying hi to someone. With the armor rep bonus and a 50m3 drone bay, it is damn solid.

Combat Drone Operation 4/5
Drone Durability 4/5
Drone Interfacing 5/5
Drone Navigation 5/5
Drone Sharpshooting 5/5
Drones 5/5
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing 4/5
Gallente Drone Specialization 4/5
Heavy Drone Operation 0/5
Mining Drone Operation 5/5
Scout Drone Operation 5/5

Hehe. Drones are fun. Does the scram work better, being short range?

Puts on 2 points instead of one...so, yes.

But i never use them, range is of more import.

So the disrupter it is. I might drop to 800mm plate so I can employ 4x150mm rails (light hybrids). I can then disrupt and deal out damage via drones. If no one is shooting at me, I can use the rails for additional damage (rails are long range, blasters are short, right? It's been awhile!).

Should be a pretty cheap setup.

That's the highlight of this Wardec so far, low skill point noobs and/or cheap ships blowing up veteran characters flying multi-hundreds of millions of ISK ships.  :awesome_for_real:

I'm looking forward to getting involved. I'll probably fly all over creation tonight getting the rest of my scattered goods up on the market, and then see about switching to Reg's corp to get a jump clone. Then I guess put together something close to that setup together in the Jita area, and then go visit the Bat Country offices.

It's stupid, but I'm just totally unwilling to go play PvP until those sell orders are up, mostly because I suspect I won't be back "home" for awhile.

Morat, if there ever was a pilot born to run 2x heavy, 2x medium, and 1x light, it's you. Don't muck around with ECM or 5x medium. Get heavy skills up to IV and the new named heavies which do extra damage and go to town. Then finish Heavy V and have a ball. :)

Drone Interfacing V?  Ouch.  If I was an inty pilot facing you in a vexor I would run like hell.  And if you train heavies up to four each of them will be hitting like a small cruiser.  That is terrifying damage potential, especially in a domi.

That was the hilarious thing about the Myrmidon bandwidth 'nerf' - sure, a BC being able to field 5 heavies was overpowered but now it's little more than a Vexor with a more armour at six to eight times the cost.

Yup, I've stopped building myrmidons entirely - or at least until people stop selling them at cost. Demand has dropped way down but my witless competitors are producing as if people still wanted them.

Anyone know off the top of their head how far drones will go to reach a target? 40km?

Base of 20km, plus 3k per level of EW drone operation. (EW drones)
Base of 20km, plus 5k per level of scout drone operation. (All other drones)

Plus a drone link augmenter (high slot, 50cpu 1mw) adds 20km

Morat's drone skills make me drool. That's an impressive amount of damage and skills. You should look at and do the math for Advanced Drone Interfacing, get a dominix, fill your high slots with Drone Control Units and go to town.. Oh hey, that's for carriers. 7500 cpu. Ugh.

Eve-Mon estimates 96 days for just the basics - Drones, Drone interfacing, navigation, sharpshooting, durability, combat drone, scout drone V
Only 26 days to get them to IV, except for drones V. I'll be working on that soon enough.

My drone skills aren't that bad, but I haven't messed with drones all that much. Was starting in on the EW drone skills awhile ago haven't actually used them.


So, 20km + 5*4 (20) = 40km. Should be OK for what I'm thinking.

If you use sentry drones your range extends to about 80km. I use sentries more often than I do heavies.

My drones skills...

Drones 5
Drone Interfacing 5
Heavy Drone Operation 5
Scout Drone 5
Combat Drone 5
Gallente Drone Spec 4
Navigation (training to 5)
Sharpshooting 4
Dura 4

Sentries are the only thing I really need to work on. But I don't camp much so ... meh.


Dont even get me started on Gunnery  :awesome_for_real:

Go re-read the EW Drones skill description.  :grin:



Too slow!
VVVVVVV

He has Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing: that gives him another 9 km per level as well.

My problem with running 2 heavies/2 mediums/1 light is wouldn't that take forever to kill small ships? I only dump the 5 lights now for the fast frigs, I use the mediums on everything else. I certainly could run a 2xheavy, 2xmedium, 1xlight combo for the PvP setup. (I actually have the rigs schematics for increasing drone damage, range, and I think speed -- haven't built rigs for it yet. Planned to fit one drone rig and a cap recharger rig for my Domi).

Bhodi: I have great drone skills because I start and stop so often, and I wanted drones since the beginning. I sucked for a long time, but all that offline skilling really adds up, especially with EVE-Mon nagging me when a skill needs changeover. It'd be a lot higher (I've had a character for two+ years now), but I don't stay subbed the entire time. Defintely NOT the best way for a new character, as I spent a ton of time with learning skills and then drone skills. One reason I tooled around in an Incursus and now a Vexxor for so long -- all my cash went to skillbooks.

Still, I think Incursus remains my favorite frig. :)

Well, I guess 2/2/1 vs. 5/5  boils down to your target list.

Also, AB in PvP is pretty pointless. Everyone else has a MWD and will outdistance you. Fit a MWD/web/point with 2/2/1 drones and whatever tank/gank you care to have in your highs/lows and you're set.

Good thing to know on MWD -- my mission-only lifestyle is hindering me here. :) You think 2/2/1 for PvP is the best setup? I'll put training a bit of Heavy Drones and MWD (I could use the cap reduction) on the list.

So I could use this setup:
Highs:
3x150m Railguns w/Antimatter charges
1xSmall Remote Armor Rep (helps to rebuild drones after fights and I couldn't fit a fourth gun)
1xSalvager (heck, why not. It's all I can fit.)

Mediums:
10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disrupter I
Cap Recharger I

Lows:
Damage Control 1
1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Plates
Medium Armor Rep I
Energized Basic Adaptive Nano Plating

That gives me, with all guns firing, 226 DPS from drones (2/2/1) and 114 from guns, a targeting range of 63km (not sure what the railguns range is -- 10 to 12km is optimal, IIRC) and I can keep a tank going for 1 m 31 seconds if the MWD isn't going, a minute 5 if I'm using the warp disrupter, while firing. Shut down the guns I can go 2 minutes. MWD, of course, eats cap.

Got a top speed of 1165 m/s with the MWD going.

Cap of 1172
Shields: 1466, Armor 6731, Hull 1856
Resists (shield/armor): EM 7.5%/69%, Thermal 26%/50%, Kinetic 44.5%/50%, Explosive: 63%/30%.

I think that's workable.

2/2/1 is good. I suppose one factor to consider is whether you're bringing T2 smalls and medums but T1 heavies. If you were going to bring all T1, I'd always bring 2/2/1 because Warrior I's don't go fast enough to bring down interceptors anyway. 5x Hammerhead IIs are pretty up there in dps compared to 2xOgre I, 2x Hammerhead II, 1x Hobgoblin II, so maybe that's still an open issue. And it appears from EFT that the best named Ogres require T2 drone skills anyway, which is bogus. I thought you were going to be able to run best named Ogres and do crazy dps. :P

MWDs are also useful for getting out of bubbles/burning back to gates.

I run 5xHammerhead IIs and 5xHobgoblin IIs now, but I don't think I could afford the losses doing that in PvP -- not unless they're a LOT cheaper then where I am in the boonies.

I'm trying for "cheap" -- I might be able to afford running 5xHammerhead 2s,  especially if someone promises to pick them up if I get podded. :)

Slayerick,

Care to throw me your opinion on a cheap (aka disposable) Rifters for a) Solo PvP and b) Group PvP?  I've seen a lot of fits out there but most of them are old pre-nurf items.  I'm working up a small fleet of Rifters to throw away learning the ropes at PvP (and train for Interceptors).  Skills are still in training so nothing exotic, plz.

Kin Rha

i'm going with 3x ac + rocket
scram / web / mwd
small armor rep / stuff that fits

please advise :)

For the record, I'm still working on my rifter fit : )

Solo, I'd try something like this (not sure how tight the fit will be for you):

Overdrive Injector System I (or better named speed mod)
Damage Control I (or better named)
Small I-a Polarized Armor Regen (or any small armor rep)

1mn Microwarpdrive
Statis Webifier (or better named of course)
Warp Scrambler I (I usually dont recommend 7500 km warp jammers, but since you need to be close anyways this saves cap / CPU)

3 x 200mm Light "Scout" Autocannon (or worse named model)
1 x Small Nosferatu I (to help with cap issues, otherwise run a rocket)



Gang - your job is to slow them down so that your big buddies can rape their face, keep a point on one:

2 x Overdrive Injector System I (or better named speed mod, or nanofiber internal structure)
Small I-a Polarized Armor Regen (or any small armor rep)

1mn Microwarpdrive
Statis Webifier (or better named of course)
Warp Disruptor I (Your job is getting this on a guy)

3 x 200mm Light "Scout" Autocannon (or worse named model)
1 x Small Nosferatu I (to help with cap issues, otherwise run a rocket)

Alternatively, for a pure tackler, consider flying a Vigil.

Thanks!

Whew.  That'll be a pretty tight (read: need 2 CPU) fit for me but I'll work on some themes and variations.


I'll look into it.  I'm up to Minmatar Frigate V and I'm all with the Projectile PewPews so I think maybe stick with a theme :)

Remember stuff like weapon upgrades to free up some CPU...

I always fit ACs on a Rifter. I have some Rifters kicking around with MWD/point/MSE, and fully nanoed lows for tackling and scouting. The other Rifter fit I have is DC, big plate (think 200mm is the biggest on a Rfiter, but cba to check atm), and either gyro or SAR for some solo action.

Speaking as an Eve noob, I was just wondering how long pvp fleet engagements last for? Or more specifically the ones we have with aces over 8's atm.

Also, how important are MWDs in fleet pvp? I'm at afterburner 2 and navigation 3 atm, so it's going to take me a few days of focused training before I can get to MWD. Would I be useless in pvp before then?

Fleet generally connotes large range BS and support, which is not really what you mean as that doesn't seem to be the kind of fights BC is fighting. A small gang engagement will last a couple minutes, no more than five. Without a MWD your ability to tackle is reduced, but you could still contribute with with EW. I don't much like your odds of dealing enough dps with a MWD, either.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfMMRAj1WHDA92H7m7hEgFg

The array of ships available in this game is staggering, I know the differences are pretty minor, but it's nice to see them lined up side-by-side. My intention is to have a sheet for ever ship type in game. So far I have Destroyers done and Frigates half done.

The ones with our previous targets generally lasted less than a minute from jumping into the target's system, warping to a covops in a belt, locking down the target and killing him and his pod.

The ones against ace's over 8's (how I hate having to type those grammatically incorrect apostrophes) have lasted a couple of minutes, or even three, as they are in gangs.

At the other extreme, I've been in several 0.0 battles that lasted around an hour from first warp-in to the last enemy running.  That time seems to pass far more quickly, however: I would, if asked, have told you that the engagements lasted seven to ten minutes, and only killboard timestamps tell otherwise.

MWD's are a module.  If you're gonna tackle and need to dash in, or are going to fly some ship that's based on speed or getting to short range, they're important.  If you're the DPS and are gonna sit back and let loose, you're probably not going to fit one.

As a module, it's used relatively often.  Plus your Navigation skills are good for all ships, you should train them anyway.  So I'd say train it.

Well, usually the real DPS is short range blasters/autcannons/torps...so a true heavy DPS ship will basically always have an MWD.

Yeah on a small scale pvp fittings will almost all have MWD except (some?) missile boats, sniping setups (rare in small scale?) & ewar.  I say train it.

I noticed that the Myrmidion has been refitted to have some utility with warfare link modules and armor repair. That looks like the Myrm got turned from solo pwnmobile to, basically, armor rep + gang support BC. That might be an interesting ship to fly for our sort of cheap pew-pew, but I've never used warfare link modules, etc.

Any thoughts on it?

You need to throw about 1M SP into leadership before you can get any sort of sensible bonus for the gang links. Resists are useful, but they are stacking penalized with hardeners. I've got a skirmish warfare mindlink because I think that's the most useful (and it took a lot more than 1M SP to train).

Bottom line: gang modules are good but only if you throw a large amount of SP at them.

Myrm has always had these bonuses, though. They didn't change that.

I admit not looking at them too closely in the past. I did notice the bandwidth and drone bay seems small (it appears to be the same bandwidth as a Vexxor!). Before I got into Bat Country, I didn't have a lot of skills I was looking at. Now my list has grown hugely (some ewar stuff, some more drones stuff, a lot of guns stuff) so leadership dropped a bit on the list. (I do make it a habit of grabbing skill books when I can afford them and train them, and at least getting them started. Saves hunting them down later, but DOES hurt the pocketbook a bit).

Just looking at the drone bay and my fitting options, it really looks clear I should skip BC's altogether unless Bat Country has a surplus of Myrmidions.

You can run L3s in a BS, right?

Myrmidons still rock. You can fit them to have nearly the same tank as a BS and still have room for guns. The bandwidth thing is purely balance because a fully tanked Myrm with heavy drones would be sheer evil. It has the same dronebay and bandwidth as a Vexxor but you have to remember that the Vexxor is an exceptional drone boat.

L3s can be run in a BS but they can equally be run in a T1 fitted BC too and your cruiser fitting skills will carry over to it better than they will to a BS..

Brutix = face rape

7 Turrets, 50m3 drone bandwidth...

Pain locker. Better than a Myrmidon if you have good gunnery, IMO.

Crappy guns, good drones. Myrmidion is a better choice simply for the drones (plus with the Vex I am very used to drone fights/I armor tank tactics). I think I have a decently researched 5-run BPC for Myrmidion in one of the stations in Verge. I might donate that to the corp at some point.

Playing with Myrmidion setups, I got:
Lows: 1600 mm Nanofiber, Damage Control 1, 2xEANM, 1xMedium Armor Rep 2, 1xPower Diagnostic System
Meds: 10MN AB, Fixed Cap Rechager, Invulnerability Field, Medium Shield Booster (not for tanking, just for refreshing between missions)
Highs: 2xHeavy Neutron Blasters, 2xMedium Nos, 1 Salvager, 1 Tractor.

That leaves 1 medium slot open. If I don't have a Nos target, I can fire and keep my repper running for 5 minutes. If I have both Nos hooked on someone, I can tank and fire indefintely. DPS wise I'm looking at 252 from a 2xOgre II, 2xHammerhead2, 1xHob 1 or 210 from 5xHammer 2s (I can't fly Ogre 2s yet anyways) and 190 from guns -- so roughly 400 to 450 DPS.

I could fit and fly that tomorrow. I mean it -- I have BC1 and would need BC2. Can I survive L3s in that? (My tactic is to get someone close and just Nos him and kill everyone else....). Is one T2 medium repper enough?

And what should I fit in the empty medium? A Omni tracking link (improves max range and tracking for drones), or a tracking computer for my two guns?

You'd probably want to get BC to 3 or 4 purely for the drone bonuses, the rep bonus is just gravy really. My standard Myrm fit had a single repper on it and I could AFK any mission except Break Their Will. I'd dump the invulnerability field and fit a cap recharger and use the last slot for an omni tracking module.

Generally you really don't want to be tanking armour and shields. Pick one and stick with it because you can rarely do both properly.

FWIW my L3 missioning Myrm fit is as follows:

Highs: 5x250mm Railgun IIs, Drone Link Augmentor
Mids: ABII, Langour Drive Disruptor, Drone Nav Computer, Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Eutectic Cap Recharger
Lows: Medium Armour Repper II,  DCU II, 2xEnergised Adaptive Nano Membrane, N Type Regenerative Membrane, Gauss Field Balancer I

That will rock and can also be used as a reasonable PvP fit.

My vexor fit

Lows 1600 (rolled tungsten if you can get it) Damage control II, 2X small armour rep II

Mids MWD web scram

Highs. Never quite decided on Railguns or blasters tbh. Both work, depends on your tactics. Use light guns though. Frig neutran blasters do pretty much the same damage as cruiser electrons but you are sacrificing a bit of range, and gaining back a hell of a lot of power.

Variations. You can drop the web for a medium damage control to feel the reps cycling. Load it with an 800 charge, as it will have 1 stored and then go into reload when you fire it.

Tough as nails, nasty as hell and cheap as chips. you can even go with t1 all the way for cheap ass pwnage.

The shield booster is only there because I recharge cap fast and like having my shields at full when i go into a mission. The invulnerability field was sort of iffy. I like having the two guns/two medium nos setup. I can tank forever in that setup.