f13.net

I have around a thousand to spend on a computer over the next three months or so.

I have already picked up the following a few months ago when I though I was going to be building it but fund ran out and Christmas happened.

PSU Corsair HX520W
Some Dual Layer DVD Burner
Apex X-Cruiser Case

I need CPU, Ram, Video, Motherboard, Hard Drive and anything else inside the machine I might have left out. I don't overclock. This machine is used for everything from Photo Editing and Web Design to Gaming in all regards if that really makes a difference. When I was originally looking I was going to put together an E6600 machine because it was the best bang for the buck but I am sure that has changed a ton since then.

I currently have an AMD 64 3200+ 2 gigs of Ram and a PCIE Radeon X800 and it's not cutting it. Which has lead to me playing my Xbox a whole lot more than I used to.

Thank you ahead of time for any suggestions.

Do you need Windows? Do you think you might want to go dual video cards in the future?

Video card choice is easy: 8800 GT. All the cheapo 256 MB models are sold out at Newegg right now so I'm specing a 512 MB model:

EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $269.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130318

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Desktop Memory - Retail $37.00 (after rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail $279.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028

ASUS P5K-E LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131225

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

Tuniq Tower 120 P4 & K8 CPU Cooler - Retail $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001

Total: $872

which leaves you room for Windows if you need it or you can get some other stuff if you don't like an Xi-Fi sound card.

Here are 3 Q6600 options:

#1 AM5620-U5208A Minitower Intel Viiv Technology, Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q6600, 2.4GHz, 3GB RAM, 500GB Hard Drive, DVD+/-RW Drive, Windows Vista Home Premium $799.99 (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=347751)

#2 Dell XPS 420 Gamer's Desktop Core 2 Q6600 Quad-Core 2.4Ghz 3GB/320GB, DVD Burner, ATI HD2400 Pro, Vista Home Premium, 4yr warranty $798 free shipping. (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=19&dgvcode=ss&c=us&l=en&vw=list&oc=dxdwqrs)

Select (2) Add My Software & Accessories - Antivirus & Security - Trend Micro Internet security 15 months (this knocks off $40)

#3 TigerDirect has the XFX MB-N680-ILT9 nForce 680i LT SLI (Intel LGA 775) ATX Motherboard, which boasts excellent overclockability and SLI support, for a low $99.99. $13-$17 Shipping. Tax in FL, IL, NC. (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2959594&Sku=P450-9102)

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor (OEM) $249.99 Free Shipping (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2643933&Sku=CP2-DUO-Q6600)



And here's the video card for any of the three of the above.
EVGA Geforce 8800 GTS 320MB HDCP PCI-Express Video Card for a low $199.99 after rebate. $6.33 Three Day Shipping. Tax in CA, NJ, PR, TN. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130082)


Take any extra gear you have left over after the upgrade and sell it. If you sell none you'll be at $1000. If you sell some you'll be sub $1000.

Unless I decide to finally purchase Vista I won't need windows and I also do not plan on going dual video card in the future.

Since I am going to be purchasing this over three months any recommendations on what I should purchase last in the hopes of it going down in price.

Also the one thing I have never been particularly good at is picking a motherboard. What are the quality motherboards manufacturers and what made you pick the one you did?

You don't want that video card.

CPU is most likely to drop in price in the next three months as Intel continues to roll out its 45nm Core 2 processors. Video is next likely *if* NVIDIA can boost supplies of the 8800 GT GPU or they come out with a mid-range 9800 card this quarter. If it's high-end only at first (which is most likely) then the 8800 GTX and GTS will die off but the 8800 GT will remain at or around its current price.

I start with the chipset. If you wanted dual video card support then an NVIDIA chipset is the only way to go since Crossfire sucks so badly. Since you don't need dual video card I would avoid NVIDIA since they've had problems with various post-nForce 4 chipsets, particularly drive issues which always gives me the heebie jeebies. On the Intel side the P35 is their most stable current "enthusiast" chipset. The X38/X48 have more features but they are brand-new so there may be teething-issues. Next I look at what ASUS offers in the chipset I'm interested in and compare those motherboards to some of the other boards offered by reputable brands like Gigabyte and DFI and decide from there.

Edit: I picked that ASUS motherboard cause it's their best P35 that Newegg offers that doesn't have the fancy cooling/capacitor/power configuration which adds another $60+ to the price. I personally have no problem spending $200+ on a motherboard but I give myself a bigger budget when building new comps. The P5KC is a "hybrid" board that supports DDR3 which I wouldn't recommend wasting money on ATM. Newegg also has an ASUS P5K-E/WIFI for the same price as the P5K-E after rebate if you don't mind rebate forms and you buy it while the rebate is still in effect.

If you do decide to go with vista, the x64 is fairly well supported now, and can use as much memory as you throw at it. 2gig is okay, 4 is better, 8 seems great. I'll second the 8800gt512 recommendation, but also suggest if you can hold off for 3 months, hold off on everything. the x38/48 stuff should be more stable or known bad by then, cpu and memory will be cheaper, and if the 9600/9800 cards arrive video will drop significantly.

In 3 months, $1000 will get you more computer than it does today. As always.

Some quick thoughts, as I've been thinking about building a new system myself.  Some of this is pretty subject to change, since you're projecting a build time at about 3 months or so:

1) OS: Assuming Windows, do you want x64? There's some lack of compatibility that comes with x64.  As a result my build I'm leaning towards the standard 32 bit.

2) CPU: Sounds like you're heading towards Intel. I'd closely monitor the performance gains between Quad cores, and the Core 2 Duos. There appears to be a major boost also because they're moving to a 45nm Proc (usually called the Penryn).  The Penryn furthur splits down to their dual core offering (Wolfdale) and their quad core offering (Yorkfield).

Probably by the time you're ready to buy, you'll be looking for Penryn-type processors.  I'd monitor all the benchmarking sites to see the progression of the benchmarkings. It might be that the gains from quad core processors aren't worth to you the cost of one, compared to a similar dual core. Although if you're photo editing, the quad core would probably figure more prominently.

3) For the motherboard (again if you're going Intel), you're looking at Chipset manufacturer, chipset type, and motherboard manufacturer.

Generally speaking on chipsets, you're looking at nVidia and Intel. Echoing what Trippy said, go with nVidia if you want dual video cards, go with Intel if you want general chipset stability. With Intels, avoid anything that has Q or G starting its name for a chipset (they're integrated graphics motherboards).

From the enthusiast/gamer side, you have roughly 3 options: 975x, P35, and X38.

P35 is probably more up your alley because it offers a newer chipset that includes better memory perforances, and apparently better support for Crossfire. It should also have more native SATA ports, and more USB 2.0 available ports. On the flip side the x38 is the newest chipset, but there's a heavy price premium tied to the chipset currently. It should offer even better compatibility for Crossfire, if you want to go that route.

Down the road, it looks like the X38s will be the gamer boards, although they're generally getting priced out at around the low 200s to the high 200s for the better equipped boards. If it matters to you, keep an eye out for boards that are made for DDR3. It's a definite price point up, but there's the classic price/performance tradeoff there.

As for manufacturers, I've heard good things about Gigabytes, and I tend to buy Asus.  Intel made boards are a cheaper alternative if you don't overclock, and you're willing to accept a lower-frills type board. 


4) Video Card: I'm with the rest of the guys, 8800 GT sounds like the sweet spot.  If you're going with Vista (and it sounds like you aren't), there's talk about some dx 10.1 cards coming out in the future that might be worth your while to look for, if you're obsessed about DX10-level graphics.

5) Hard drives are pretty much in line with what people are saying. SATA 3.0 Gb/s drives with large warranties are wht you're looking for.

6) Future concerns: I'd keep an eye out for developments as the new CPUs start to filter in.  There's an upgrade to the X38 coming out called the X45 that brings to the table official 1600FSB support. The boards are starting to come in, with what looks like a 30-50 dollar price premium compares to the X38s.

...And don't forget to buy a monitor (http://gizmodo.com/341413/alienware-curved-monitor-looks-like-its-from-another-planet).

That looks pretty awesome except you can already buy two 24" LCD monitors w/ 2ms for under $800 total. Office Depot had 24" 5ms ones for $280 a couple weeks ago.

Hey Lan,

 I just did the same thing and sold my AMD AM2 5000+ and switched to an Intel platform. Here's some tips I picked up along the way.

Motherboard:
If your not concerned about SLI, a p35 chipset based board will work well. Look at all the models to make sure its "45nm /Yorkfield" compatible. This will allow you to drop a 45nm quad into the board down the road. I ended up with a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L (http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2583), the Abit IP35-E (http://www2.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/motherboard_detail.php?pMODEL_NAME=IP35-E&fMTYPE=LGA775) is also highly recommended.

CPU:
Intel is in a transition to 45nm and 16 new processors (http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTE5OTU5Mzc0MXJrZ2duMTlEUllfMV84X2wuanBn) were announced yesterday to be coming out soon (this month to this quarter).

You can pickup a q6600 for cheap but I really doubt the price on the processor is even going to drop much with the new 45nm coming in to replace it. As a stopgap I picked up an E2180 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLA8Y) for $80 and overclocked it to 2.5Ghz(My overclock is low as I haven't pushed it yet). There's a thread (http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/243437-stable-e1000-e2000-rigs-configuration-thread.html) on overclocking the E2000 series.

Video:
8800 series, either a g92 GTS(it has 128 stream processors) or GT. Stick with 512MB RAM in case you run a decent size resolution (ie a 22" LCD). ATI has the 3570 which is comparable but ATI's line has issues with AA speed and its generally slower but cheaper. The 8800GT's have a premium it seems at the moment due to the demand.

RAM:
Pretty much anything decently timed. Take into consideration the timing, the memory modules, warranty, brand reliability. I ended up with a two sets of Mushkin HP2-6400 (http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=627)(4GB) due to rebates and sales.

Hard drive:
Really depends on the size and budget and your sound constraints. For fast large storage the Hitachi 7K1000 series (750GB/1TB) are large and fast (7200rpm but due to the drives layout three platters its almost if not as fast as the raptor) with a 32MB buffer, but the idle and the seek times of the drives are loud. The WD raptor WD1500 is the defacto leader, its fast 10,000rpm, but the space is small (150GB). At the other end of the spectrum is the Samsung Spinpoint T166 at 500gb its a slower drive but its the quietest 3.5" hard drive out there.

Personally I'm getting rid of a Seagate 7200.10 500GB drive to go to the T166 because my case is a mesh and the Seagate has a loud seek and idle sound. You can find out tons of info at http://www.storagereview.com/leaderboard.sr on the drives.

Misc "I got you" details:
 If you have more then 4GB of ram you won't be able to allocate it in Windows XP (with 64 yes). Also take into consideration your video ram will count against this, so when you boot into XP it will say you have like 3.2GB of ram. I'm currently running Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit and it runs well. Just remember out of the box Vista will require time to self optimize as it learns your patterns of data access and programs. I have pretty much no issues with 32bit versions of programs besides the general "wont work with Vista program" ie Manhunt... GRRRR.

 The more I use Vista the less I mind it, you get AHCI out of the box without resulting to voodoo to patch up Windows XP and it can be tweaked to run very well if you put the time into finding tweaks and run SP1 RC.

These days the resolution you run at makes a very small impact on the total amount of VRAM needed. Back in the days probably before you were born going from kilobytes to 1/2/4/8 MB made huge differences in the resolutions you could support. Nowdays all that extra RAM is for texture memory and other scene processing stuff.

Let me clarify that I mean resolution in game, if your going to run 1600x1200+ in game your going to want 512MB

Example benchmarks (http://www.expreview.com/img/review/1gbgt/1GT_card_roundup.png) of a 8800gt 256MB/512MB/1GB from vrzone forums (http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=221081) and also note all the cards had the stock clocks (doesn't mention memory timings)

OIC now what you are talking about. You aren't talking about resolution so much as the anti-aliasing settings.

With no AA this is the frame buffer memory requirement:

1280 x 1024 x 4 bytes per pixel (RGB + alpha) = 5 MB per frame
1600 x 1200 x 4 bytes per pixel = 7.3 MB per frame
1920 x 1200 x 4 bytes per pixel = 8.8 MB per frame

If you look at your benchmarks you can see that there's very little difference in performance with adding more memory with AA turned off since the above frame buffers are relatively small even compared to 256 MB of memory.

Full Scene Anti Aliasing (FSAA) works by increasing the resolution of the frame being rendered by some factor of 2 and then filtering it down back to the display resolution. In that situation the amount of frame buffer memory required can be a significant chunk of the total memory on the video card. E.g. 8xAA creates 8 pixels for every one pixel of the final frame render so at 1920 x 1200 that would be 70 MB per frame if it's rendering the 8xAA frame in one chunk. If the extra memory required to render a frame with FSAA "pushes out" some needed textures or other scene information that'll slow down the frame rate as the GPU waits for the information to be passed from main memory.

I've never really seen AA work too well for me. The effect on most of the games I've played is a blurry, washined out effect. I prefer crisper graphics myself

Yes that's one of the problems with the typical filtering algorithms when scaling down a supersampled FSAA frame.

Vista had visible redraw tearing w/ a 8300gs running 2 1920x1200 screens and that was without Aero enabled.

Yep, again sorry not to be clear. Thanks for the detailed explantion on a frame rendering :).  I was looking around too for an indepth 8800 (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061108-8182.html) design to see if system ram was mapped directly to a SP but it just pages in and out to l1 cache.

The breakdown in price is like $50 premium on newegg for a 512MB($250ish) vrs a 256MB($200ish) which is kinda a silly premium because I picked up mine for $229CAD (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=24630BD2208).

Yeah its personal preference on AA/image quality but my god its nice with no jaggies ;)



Honestly the nVidia driver for Vista is really sketchy with dual monitors depending on the usage. Full screen mode on primary really is dicey as I had lost rendering a few times to the display when alt-tabbing etc. With the secondary monitor disabled or a game in window mode on the primary it works fine.

That happens to me all the time too (with a 8600GT). Changing resolutions in EVE. Tabbing. Even happened once w/ the Winamp 3d visualization plugin running and me changing the screen resolution.

Why are you fuckers changing resolution from desktop to game, especially if you happen to be running a LCD screen with a fixed native resolution?

BG2142 locks up if I tab out of game after a map is loaded, and the culprit is some issue about the resolution. It's an older AGP 7600 though. I don't play in fullscreen any more. The combination of Zonealarm alerts popping under the game along with the lockup = re-friggin boot. Windowed mode works fine.

Because I am so :awesome_for_real: and I expect my computer to be as equally or more :drill:? I'm usually running 10 apps, 10 Firefox tabs, and either have Eve open or am encoding a video all at the same time.

It isn't a crash crash. It just stops drawing everything except the mouse and both screens are the black background of Windows. I end up turning it off with the power button.

While I can't offer any hardware suggestions over and beyond far more knowledgeable people already have, I have to ask one question (actually two):

Do you have the $1K now?  Or is the $1K what you have budgeted out over the next 3 months (333 per month) that you are going to buy a piece at a time?

The reason I ask, is that in 3 months, prices can (and they will) change.  And what is expensive (or just out of reach) now will likely have come down somewhat 3 months from now.  So, if you've allotted yourself ~300 bucks a month over the next three months, I would HIGHLY suggest getting the funds together FIRST, then seeing what is available for what price THEN.

Is there anything out right now that you feel you're missing out on due to your system (which really doesn't look too bad)?  Is there anything coming out in the next 3 months that you'll need a newer rig to play?

Just a suggestion, your money.  Do what you will.

OK, that was like 4 questions - sue meh.

It's really more of a buy a piece here and there over the next three months before the money is spent on something else. Like drapes for the living room or paint or something like that.

Basically I would like to get a new computer and I have about 700 dollars right now, but the chances of my wife letting me spend it all on a computer are slim to none. So I will be getting a piece or two for the next three months.

hmm, hard drive first.  No real tech is happening anytime soon, and while there's some really nice big drives that spin slow but have high-level access times (meaning quieter drives), you can get a lesser tier, almost-as-huge drive for cheap.

Ram second.  Ram's cheap, but depending on if you want DDR2 or DDR3, praying/waiting for a price drop wouldn't be a bad idea for DDR3.

I'd get the motherboard third.  No-one's really jazzed about the X48s so far, and as long as you can find a motherboard that's compatible with the type of RAM that you're buying, and that's compatible with the type of proc, you're golden.

Toss up between Proc or Video Card last.  I tend to look at price tiers as my constraint.

I run say CS:Source or WoW fullscreen at 1680x1050 playing on my primary LCD which is native 1680x1050. I have a second LCD 19" native 1440x900 with nothing displaying (due to fullscreen game). If I alt-tab from the fullscreen game to my desktop 90% of the time the primary display will go gray/black also and the mouse will still move but you loose desktop and the game. If you hit CTL-ALT-DEL the screen dosen't pop up with task manager etc. There's no way to launch an app or get the renderer back.

 Seems like something messes up with Aero/Direct3D game.

I do try to run everything in my desktop res (1680x1050), but this isn't always available (Arx Fatalis).  This is a no-win since I'm still running a 7900GS.  /sadf

Fuser, if you're having that trouble, it may be a limitation on your vid card. Unless you absolutely are in love with Aero, turn that shit off. All it does is slow down your machine and graphics performance for things that actually need it.

For games like EVE or WoW, which have a pretty low graphics footprint, I recommend windowed mode if you have dual monitors and a relatively newish video card, of the 7000 series or above.

It's not a limitation of the video card as the same features functions fine in XP, its an issue with either the driver or aero getting messed up rendering.

What seems to happen is the game or UI gets lost in switching between Aero <-> basic and just renders off screen.


It really doesn't seem to slow down game rendering at all in full screen because it disables itself (windowed mode cannot remember), I have the system resources to use it, and it only happens in a dual monitor situation. All my complaint is its a bug in that case with dual monitors.

FYI specs are:
E2180 @2.5GHz
8800GT
4GB PC2-6400


Yep the system runs like a top for any games that support window mode but for say something like GTA:SA (that doesn't have window mode out of the box) its annoying.

Uhm, unless I am not understanding you, you're saying that you can alt-tab out of a fullscreen mode in XP with dual monitors, but with Vista with Aero on, you can't, because it blacks out stuff and makes your system unresponsive.

It may not be a limitation of your video card, but then again, I'm not sure video cards like the GT, which do not have dual GPUs, are meant to be able to switch between a graphics heavy desktop like Aero and a full screen game, -especially- if you're in dual screen mode where your GPU is working on two desktops simutanously. You're basically asking a GPU to not simply alt-tab between Aero and a fullscreen game, which is already asking a lot out of a single-GPU card, but to dump out of fullscreen game and then re-render your desktop across two screens.. I don't know if you can fix that, but seriously, try turning off Aero completely and try again.

Turning off Aero's no biggie. Right click on My Computer, select properties, then selec Advanced Settings on the left hand colum, then select Performance. Under the Visual Effects tab, either uncheck all boxes, or select just a few you want, but get rid of most of them.

Dumb question - Why not?  Isn't the GTS better then the GT?

No. Some marketing genius at NVIDIA decided to reverse their previous naming convention. It used to go GT, GTS, GTX in order of increasing performance. With the 8800s it goes GTS, GT, GTX.

I thought the pattern still stands w/ GT, GTS, GTX but the 8800 GT uses a smaller *mm GPU which makes it faster. And I thought the new 512MB 8800 GTS also uses the new smaller *mm GPU which will make it faster than the GT again. See here (http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1234/11/page_11_benchmarks_3dmark06_vista/index.html) for example.

This link seems to support Krakow (and my) understanding -->  http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_8800.html

but maybe you know something about the sekret sauce?!  tell! tell!

I didn't realize the G92 GTS's were shipping yet. I see that Mwave is carrying one card now but Newegg still isn't.

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

When do we think the quad-core 6600 and such things will break in price?

Sometime around the launch of the desktop 45nm Quad Cores:

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/13878

Will those new Quad Cores work in a 975 chipset, despite being clocked down to 1066 in most cases?

Need to be more specifc. What motherboard are we talking about here? If it's a 975 it's highly unlikely. If it's a 975X then maybe depending on the board maker and the revision of the board (not BIOS).

You know, the one from way back: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131025

ASUS
ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Don't see it on the list but check the BIOS update section to find out for sure:

http://event.asus.com/mb/45nm/

Jesus they release BIOS updates a lot.

So here's my question, how do I upgrade a BIOS without a motherboard already in it?

Also, maybe you can make sense of this crappily designed website.

Well, answered my first question.

You can't.

One day, companies need to solve this problem.

Are you saying your motherboard somehow wiped the bios completely? I don't know about Asus, but I think that some boards have a permanent back up bios that can be restored either through a function key combination at start up or through a resetting of the cmos jumpers.

Also, Asus, bless them, have the suckiest and slowest website known to man.

Uh no. I was saying I didn't want to buy a processor to, in turn, just upgrade the BIOS to get a better processor.

Borrow one?

How did you end up with a MB and no processor for it?

Threadjack! (Because I don't want to clutter up the board with a new thread.)

I was going to get a new video card, either the Radeon 3870 or the 8800 GT. Then I noticed that since I first put togther my computer, PCIe has replaced PCI. So I have to replace my reliable Asus K8V Deluxe (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131473) motherboard as well.

Most of the computer still works fine - Athlon 64 3200+, Audigy2 ZS Platinum sound card, two large IDE HDs, 2x 512MB 128-pin DDR SDRAM, DVD-ROM, CD-RW, and a 550W power supply, all packed in this lovely case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112022). Given that I want to save all those (if possible), does anyone have any recommendations for a new motherboard?

I'm sorry to bother you with this. Last time I had to rebuild my computer, I had the advice of two expert friends who put machines together for kicks. Now they're in California, and I'm in Edmonton...

Uhh...they don't make Socket 754 boards anymore. Newegg has exactly one (which looks okay). Canada Computers has zero. Maybe you should upgrade your CPU as well.

Honestly, I would be stretching to afford a new motherboard for the video card. Card + MB + CPU = no go. What I've got will go into savings, and I'll look at upgrading again in six months.

Thanks! Not the answer I wanted, but the answer I needed. ^_^

Best if you just tell us your upper budget; you'd be surprised what awsome deals some of us f13'ers can scroungue up from the intertubes.

While we're on the subject of mobo's....

I was looking at the Asus P5B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131030) (with the temptation of going with a Q6600, 4GB of RAM, 8800GTS, and Vista Ultimate 64bit).  But I can't tell if it will support a SATA DVD/CD.  This has me perplexed a bit from the owners manual:


I know this sounds like a st00pid n00b question, but isn't a DVD/CD basically considered a harddrive/storage device?  And even though the DVD/CD is SATA (1.5Gb/s) and not SATAII (3.0Gb/s), wouldn't it still recognize it, i.e. - work?

No.

Depends on what you mean by "work". An SATA 3.0 Gb/s controller is backwards compatible with SATA 1.5 Gb/s devices. There are other issues involved, however, when dealing with SATA DVD-ROM drives, as in you may have to fiddle with your BIOS to get Windows to recogonize the drive.

Why go with the p5b? It's a p965 so it's quite old at this point. If you're looking for something under $100, there are several p35 solutions out there.

I've been using sata dvd drives for quite a while now, haven't had any issues with them except for XP needing a floppy for drivers to install from them. Otherwise it gets confused about 5 minutes in and forgets how to see the drive.

When I was doing the advanced search on new egg, it was one of the choices that came up.  I don't need SLI, I'm not ever going to overclock it.  So, really, a stable, basic n00b friendly board that will handle a quadcore and 1066 or 800 speed RAM is pretty much all I need.

Gigabyte P35C-DS3R.  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128048)

I would never buy a board from NewEgg that was 59% 5 stars with over 100 reviews. That's just dreadful.

On that same note, I've decided to wait until the Q9450 to come out and the X38s to really hit their stride.

Well, both Rattran and I have the board, and we're both very happy with it. Its very robust, pretty user friendly, OC's fairly easily if that's your thing, and it can take both DDR2 and DDR3 memory, and theoretically the new 45 nm CPUs.

http://forums.tweaktown.com/showthread.php?t=25051

Let's knock on wood together?

Meh, mine's been running for about 45 days, a couple reboots for kernel upgrades, but is doing fine. I don't think there's any board out there that there isn't a forum somewhere extolling as problematic.

I was just suggesting not to buy a board that's several gen back, and not going to support stuff from here out. The p965 was decent enough in it's day, but that day is long past.

Looks like I'll be getting the ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38

Anandtech has a review about the soon to hit Rampage Formula (X48) http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208 (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208) They gush over it.

How will the pc version of Mass Effect run on those GPUs?

 :awesome_for_real:

Read those forums. Out of the 16 or so people posting their problems (although its 18 pages of complaints, most of it is the same 3 users posting over and over), its hard to tell how many of them may have gummed up their MOBO on their own, and how many may have legitimately borked motherboards. One thing does seem certain, however; Gigabyte Customer Service leaves a lot to be desired, especially in the communication department, and their documentation is very poor for their boards' advanced features.

Perhaps I was just lucky, but I've played with my motherboard settings quite a bit since I've had it (got it 5 months ago), and I've not encountered the problem they did. Voltage changes, over clocking, updating the BIOS over 3 revisions, and no issue like the one descrdibed.

It is, no doubt, a board that does a lot compared to other boards, and perhaps when it pushes that flexibility envelope, it also opens the door for many more varieties of hardware faults.

So, I bit the bullet and built a quadcore system...q6600, 8800GTS (G92) 512 MB, etc.  Total cost including a system builders copy of Vista Premium 64 bit was just under 1200, not including mail in rebates that I'll likely never see.

Happy is not the word for it.

I decided to hold off for the new 12MB cache quad cores. But I hope you enjoy it!

Is there really a noticeable reason to go quad core over a faster clocked dual core?  I'm not talking ripping dvds, I mean gaming.

At this point, I can't really say.  It's downloading/updating my Steam games, so I'll know for sure soon enough.  From what I could tell from reading over at Toms Hardware was that no, there's not a significant improvement, though there is SOME (2-10 fps), which in the really real world doesn't mean anything.

Right now no, in the future yes.

I'm thinking of upgrading the 2 computers in the house, and I'm thinking of getting 2 8800 GT's from EVGA (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130319), for each computer.  I've found pretty much what I want for memory, processor, etc..., but I can't make up my mind on motherboards.  I want a board that lets me run those two cards in SLI, run reliably and game great. 

Unless your current machines have died you really should wait to see what NVIDIA announces. Why spend $1000+ on video cards now when you might be able to buy 2 that may be cheaper and defintely faster?

For motherboard chipsets if you want the latest and greatest (e.g. PCIe 2.0 support) you'll want the NVIDIA 780i chipset. Otherwise get the 680i or the 680i LT if you don't care about overclocking (and usually those motherboards have less features but are cheaper).

The default nvidia cooling solution for the 780i used on the evga and xfx boards sucks. 1 rigid heatsink/heatpipe to cover everything from mosfets to mcp, poorly fitted with cushioning boxes. I still can't get mine to fit right, and there's a pile of threads on the evga boards on it.

mcp at 100+ degrees out of the box is horrible, I've got mine down to 67, which is still bad. I'd pull it all apart again and file down the standoffs, but I leave for a month in a matter of days, and I'm too angry right now. Plus, the stock fan is designed to blow all the mcp heat directly to the back of your pci-e graphics card.  :uhrr:

wassat?

I think MCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Communications_Processor) is Media Communications Processor and, about 100% positive, a MOSFET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosfet) is a Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor-Field-Effect-Transistor.

The MCP is just another one of the chips on the board, the MOSFETs he's referring to are probably the power MOSFETs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_MOSFET) (though, uh, there are lots more...) and what he is saying is that he doesn't like the stock cooling implementation.