f13.net

... on the lead-up to 9/11 and probably the aftermath.

Here it is: http://cnparm.home.texas.net/911/Intro.htm

I haven't finished reading all of this as I just found it a few hours ago. I can't even remember how the hell I found it (beyond googling for something specific about a US policy I've forgotten), but damn... I've been reading this with a growing disquiet and horror for hours and am only up to June 1999. In any case, it does seem to be rather accurate as I've been checking on some of the stories, reports, and articles listed (including this (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?s_hidethis=no&p_product=DM&p_theme=dm&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_field_label-0=Author&p_field_label-1=title&p_bool_label-1=AND&p_text_label-1=Bush%20criticizes%20Web%20site%20as%20mailcious&p_field_label-2=Section&p_bool_label-2=AND&s_dispstring=headline(Bush%20criticizes%20Web%20site%20as%20mailcious)%20AND%20date(all)&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no) little gem) and they have all checked out so far,

Quite simply this is blowing my mind and has instilled in me the desire to study these events further (always had a fascination with the Cold War, this cements it). I can't say if this is EXACTLY correct, but at the very least it is quite thought provoking, and provides bibliographies so is relatively easy to check up on the facts.

Everybody slightly interested in this sort of thing should definately check this out. It is that good.

I like this one.



Is this what they mean by winning hearts and minds?

This was my favorite.....how fucking bad did that guy need a cigarette?

He looks from what I've seen so far to hold up, at least in terms of timeline. We need to keep in mind that his selection of sources, and interpretation are bound to have some impact.

After all, he says "My outlook is pessimistic".

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

Fantastic.

You do, of course, realize there ARE limits to freedom in this country?  There are these things called laws, that say 'You can't do this' or 'you can't do that'.  Laws about things like slander, that limit what you can say about people in public without being fined.  Admittedly, that law specifically states that politicians aren't protected (IIRC), but everyone has had a 'There oughta be a law...' moment, when someone does something you don't like.

It does make a cute quote, I'm surprised moveon.org and Soros haven't made a commercial about it yet.

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Alkiera

This one just has me in awe. Granted, the source is Richard Clarke, who I consider credible, and who most conservatives apparently consider a dirty traitor.



The eye sees what it wants to see.

cross reference the first meeting with Security Chiefs after 9-11, according to Richard Clarke, Bush told them all to go and see what they could do to connect it with iraq in some way.

And cross-reference with Richard Clarke saying Osama Bin Laden would "skedaddle" and disappear into Iraq if we tried to bomb him in Afghanistan.

Bruce

Couple of things :
1 - I'm Scottish and don't give a shit about American Politics.  I don't care about the current hysteria on all the boards I frequent about the election.  Truly.
2 - I was originally trained in English (my degree) and the quote itself struck me as funny.  I was making little to no politcal hay about it.  Seems like a totally bizarre thing for an American politician to say (but there are plenty of one liners that many politicians wish had NEVER come about.  Look at the stuff that used to dribble out of Churchill for Christ's sake.)

So, please spare me the lesson or the condescencion.  I truly don't give a fuck.

...and don't forget the old SNL Mike Myers:  If it's not Scottish, it's CRAP!

And just to prove I don't care ;  from the same source



That makes me laugh too.  I want to be known as a 'swindler'.

That'd rule.

I think most presidents do this.

I can't wait to see who Bush pardons.  Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Andy Fastow, welcome back to the world!!

Not if we didn't miss.

There is some evidence that we didn't...  In that, the nigh endless stream of audio tapes and video tapes from Osama in the time between 9/11/01 and December 2001, at the battle of Tora Bora.

He had a new tape out any time the US goverment so much as sneezed...  but we've had several Sept. 11ths go by without a peep from him, the Enron, Worldcom, etc scandals would've made great anti-capitalism propaganda targets, we invaded another Muslim country and had our way with it's leader(admittedly one Osama didn't really like, but still, many Muslims were martyred in those three weeks) and not so much as a peep from a guy who was formerly trying to out-publish Danielle Steele?

Sure, it's possible he escaped...  but I'd thinked he'd have popped up to gloat about it by now.

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Alkiera

On a related note, PBS has a great 4 hour documentary covering the 50 year war between Israel and the Arabs.  It is very detailed, year-by-year coverage, with interviews with every single person imaginable, from all sides(all surrounding countries).   It also shows insight into the United States(among others) attempt at bring peace over the years.  It also shows the insane, almost childish struggle on both sides, to create power out of nothing.  Well worth the time, if only to learn arbitration tips against unreconcilable sides.

Do a search for "PBS" on www.suprnova.org to find a copy.

Just as a side note, this conflict between Israel and Arabs have been going on for as long as there have been Arabs.  Not 50 years, but thousands.  Trying to get a peace treaty between them is like trying to get all the dogs and cats to stop fighting.  Sure, you might get one or two dogs and cats to get along, but getting all of them to do so is nigh impossible.  Conflict is in their nature.

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Alkiera