f13.net

How about we move a bunch of our alts into a separate corp for a week or so (ie not F13, so as not to cause trouble for our genial host) and issue a wardec against some empire corp with big ships, ten times our alts' skillpoints and ten times our numbers?

A few hours in Motsu, and using the new advert system, will find likely targets.  I have a few alts capable of using locator agents around Caldari space, and I'm sure others must, too, so we could track them down if they insist on missioning instead of pewpewing.

This would give us a way to find fights together (or alone) throughout the week of the wardec, rather than just roaming.  I have plenty-o-cash, so I'd sponsor the 50m wardec fee.  The usual corporate sponsorship, branding and merchandising rights notwithstanding, of course.

Edit: since this would be versus empire types who are neutral in the whole Great War thing there's no reason why the guys from GF, Snigg, and even Joe and LC couldn't join in with disposable alts.

Empire war dec (corp vs corp) is only 2mil (assuming the 2 parties don't have any other wars going on)

Seriously?  Is that not just for mutual ones?  Sweet.

I'm in!

Sounds good to me.

Cool

Does this mean that the  :nda: forum will see some action again?  It's been quiet for a while now...

If you're gonna be mean bastards do it properly.  Wardec a carebear corp and ransom their POS.

Argh!  In the last four months i must have helped reinforce or destroy almost 50 POSes.

That said, I'm pretty good at doing it with only a few BSes, now, and we can now scoop the modules afterwards too.

But you didn't get evemails full of tears and rage for your efforts did you?  :awesome_for_real:

Forums full of it :)  But I take your point...

Wardeccing EVE-U is always pretty fun. The newbs out in low-sec are there for exactly the same reason you are (pew-pew) and they have a number of very skilled, long-time vets that run their PvP stuff.

The newbs not into combat are generally in higher-sec playing the market or missioning.

Irek can start the corp if we wanna do that - he has some corp skills. Mezz (my alt) is CEOing the F13 corp anyways.

Someone come up with a name and I'll set it up tonight - then we can bounce back and forth between it and F13.. though someone will notice in our employment history and wardec F13 too eventually.

I would be up for some empire ganging.

here's some names:

Bat Country [-BC-] (already have this corp setup)
F14
Intergalactic RZR [IRZR]
America Online [-AOL-]
Will PVP For Food [PVP4F]
Cure for Carebears [CURE4]

Will see if I can get proper combat alt, but one question - are there large enough empire corps we can shoot at?

We can find one!

I have a 9 million skillpoint pvp alt not doing anything, or is the spirit of this empire war more geared to a disposable character?

I'm totally up for creating an alt dedicated to endless suicide.

Not sure it matters - whatever you want to do. I'm going to use my main most likely. I'm not scared!  :grin:

Just trying to get a feel for what you guys are wanting to do ....  a lighthearted empire war full of fun dumbfuckery and suicidal attacks screaming "banzi!" using an alt I'm not even training, or an attempt to inflict some real pain on a wealthy carebear which can hopefully profit from.  I'm fine with either one, and am only asking so I know which character to sign up.

I say bring the 9 mil alt, most of us are using noobs because we are noobs or people cannot leave their corp to have a fun pvp romp, but if you have a pvp alt doing nothing, the added skill points will help whether it is just suiciding or trying to actually make a profit on the carebears.

I know the costs stack up for multiple wardecs, but if it starts at 2 mill then maybe it wouldn't be too steep to wardec a couple of 50+ person empire corps?  I've one in mind that I was once a member of (and which rips off its members for 10% tax without even a small pos to give them), but I'll sit around in the mission hubs for a few hours this weekend and see if there are any patterns, add a few members to my buddy list and see how much they are on, join one on an alt perhaps to get their active member count, and we can run some locator agents to nail them down when we wardec and they think it's smart to move to Kaunokka instead of Motsu.

Edit: Kamen, I'd like to profit as well as gank, and if they choose to use their 30 million SP caldari characters to jump into pvp fits and fight back then good for them.  Otherwise we might even get someone's coveted Gisti X-Type :)

Re skillpoints, I'll use the Groundskeeper, who is at the 5 mill skillpoint mark, but anything will be fine.

Mutuals are free

Assuming your targets have no other wars on the first war is 2mil, the second 4mil and your 3rd 6mil (corps are capped at 3 outbound wars) - obviously all the renewals will all end up at 6mil if you keep all 3 wars going.

If your target corp(s) have multiple wars on the prices will be higher (we have a single war on currently thats 6mil a week due to the targets corps 'popularity')

Mission running corps while profitable (unless they are farmers and thus immediately flee to NPC corp when the dec lands) can be tricky to engage if they only run missions in the same system as the agent (even if you have decent probing skills you'd need to know the names of their ships and find them on the directional scanner before probing them so you know you've probed the right ship). If they mission run in the systems surrounding the agent you have the opportunity of catching them on the inbound/outbound gate which is far easier (but requires patients and/or timing - you'll sit for ages on the gate waiting for them to finish the mission and hope they dont have a scout bust your camp before they all jump through)

Industrial corps tend to be easier (and can be just as profitable from a surrender fee point of view) as noob they will often still try mining and running haulers about while at war, kill them and the noob rage sets in and they come back in their mission running setup (usually with their mission running corp mates who think PvP is easier than a lvl 4)

Unfortunately to get much action you really need to dec corps >50 members to compensate for alts, inactives and timezone differences, usually this will leave you with a nice number of people to shoot at pretty much all the time however you do run the risk of getting blobbed everyonce in a while (usually right at the start of the war when the target is full of rage and wants to teach you a lesson) we often let a target stew for 24/48 hours after the war starts so they get bored and go back to doing their normal thing at which point we turn up and spank them

The other alternative is to dec multiple smaller corps (just try to pick ones operating in the same area so your pilots arent bouncing all over the place) - again beware of [un]intentional blobbing by the multiple targets

Great stuff, 5150: really useful.

I have a covops with pretty good skills who can use up to observator probes, so it should be possible to find the targets in-system: I take it that a neutral alt sitting around somewhere on the station grid is a good idea to note ship names, too?  At 12 mill a week for three targets (assuming no other wardecs on them) I'd say we might as well go for the full three to be sure of targets: I'll happily cover that since I'm more interested in PvPing alongside F13 people than anything else like actually making money.

Someone pick a corp name, stat! (So I can make this thing and be done with it!)

I'm not even in it, yet, but:

Learning the Hard Way
Losing Proposal
We Heart U
Entertainment Weekly
How U Say Ransm

If you guys get this rolling before my trial runs out (12 days to go) I am in.

How about 'Violent Friendliness'? or 'Violently Friendly'?

Friendly Violence?

EDIT:  just create it, shrug.  Sorry.

It's too hard!  :uhrr:

Could do 'Peaceful Violence' or 'Violently Peaceful' ..

Really I'm at a loss. Someone come up with a good one, I'll even give you a 1isk reward!

Band of Goons

I love both of these. Especially Bat Country.

We can do Bat Country.

Where do we want to be based for this empire war? Is Olo OK?

Just let me know what sort of alt to create. I don't mind donating a little time and money from my main's training. :)

Bobswarm?  :awesome_for_real:

How about "The Furry LARPing Love Squad"?  Anyone you kill will be too embarassed to admit it...

I always liked Bat Country.  Rarely enough, for a book adaption, I liked it even more after the film version, because of the hilarity of the delivery of the line.

5150 sounds like he may be the one in the know, but after initial recce, I'm betting that we'll find the highest concentration of targets around Motsu, Isazawa, Isenairos and the Yria/Hogimo/Kulelen/Yria/Kaunokka loop (and neighbouring systems), all in Citadel, which is of course close to Jita if we want to really grief people with a gate camp at some point.  There are a few systems in Lonetrek and The Forge too, but they're all within reach of the main bunch.

Halaima, Huttaken and Sankkasen are nicely central, within five jumps of the Motsu and Yria concentrations.

This goonfleet guide - http://wiki.goonfleet.com/index.php?title=Recommended_Base_Stat_Builds - has a bunch of great PvP builds that are useful almost out the box (just add propulsion jamming and high speed manuevring and you're done).

Taking notes of corps not in alliances in the area of Sankkasen:


Right to Rule (64 members) (multiple members in Sankkasen)
Symtec Industries (41 members)
Nebula Rasa Holdings (47 members)
Klingonisches Imperium (20 members) (multiple members in Sankkasen)
Eagle Technologies (30 members) (multiple members in Sankkasen)

React. (37 members)
Brotherhood of Mithra (64 members)
Ace's Over 8's (37 members)
Angles of the Apocolypse (44 members)
Stardust Assassins (87 members)

Bat Country now has an office at Sankkasen IX - Moon 12 (Citadel) and Eram VIII - Moon 13 (Metropolis).

Small corp, but might be a good choice for one of our dec's.    I saw about 7 of these guys in system this morning mining.  It's also their home system.  They're a German mining/mission running corp, with aspirations for pvp.

So when should we wardec?  On Wednesday 26th?  That would then kick in on the 27th for fighting beginning.  If people here will be most active at the weekend then that gves them 5150's suggested day's grace to go back to their old habits and get careless before we hit them.

I'm all in favour of wardeccing more then one corp to make it more likely to get fights, but I dunno what others think?

Also, are there enough euro-TZ folks here to get a gang going, or are we going to be waiting for the US cavalry while empirically discovering the effectiveness of a PvP thorax solo versus a PvE raven?

Euro zone here, and I am in, but perhaps sporadically in the Christmas season.

The latter! Where's your sense of adventure!?

I think we should wardec someone today - I for one will be around tomorrow and monday for some pewpew. :)

More war dec's the better in my opinion, but I'm fine with however many you guys decide.  I (and I think Endie also offered) can cough up some money to help defray the war dec costs, buy frigs and cruisers for those who need cash, etc.

As for availability, I will only be on in brief spurts for the next few days to avoid wife agro  :awesome_for_real:

I'll donate 100 mill for the effort. I'll just free up my CEO-ship of my own corp first and join. Bat Country, right?

Yep, BC office in Sankkasen is our current base of operations.

I'm ready whenever. I'm finishing skilling up for a tackler since we seemed to have problems with people getting away. Obviously, I'll provide support.

I'm skilling up a Vigil fit: 2 nanofiber, 1 overdrive injector, MWD, webifier, scrambler, small nos, rocket launcher.
I picked vigil since it seems to be the absolute best frigate for tackling there is, with a racial 5% to speed and 3 middle slots. Plus, it's really really cheap. I think the entire ship with t1 modules runs under 500k. If anyone has a better tackler, please suggest it to me. Minmitar is helpful since I want to get minmitar indy for the mammoth.

Once I get minmitar frigate up to level 3, I'll work on high speed maneuvering 2->3 and acceleration control 2->3. That should be this weekend for sure.

I like my blackbird but it doesn't seem like it's a good ship for what we're trying to do, so I'm going to be useful as a disposable scout+tackler. I like scouting anyway, it seems fun but I need more practice at it.

I've resigned my roles from F13 so I can join Bat Country as soon as I get back in a few days.  I've also moved my neutral probing covops character Up to our area of operations, and will move a couple of neutral, disposable alts into key systems as well for scouting purposes.

We normally sit a [cloaked] non-war alt outside their [hq] station either before the war starts (usually while the vote is in) or during the first 24 hours while we let them stew to collect ship names (even if they arent in a mission the ship names are always useful) and occasionally passive lock and ship scan them as well (this is more if you want to find what rats they've hardened against for their current mission). Ship names are however vital if you trying to probe a specific mission runner (doubly so in a packed mission running system) though as you need to get them on a 5 degree directional scan (so less than ~14AU away) so you can look at your probe returns on the system map and ignore any that arent directly in front of you (system map uses the same orientation as the ships camera). It's quite common for war targets to continue to run missions while at war (especially if they are just a mission running corp) as well as mining once the rats are dead because most people think they can't be found.

In my experience you really need to get within 5AU of a mission to get a probe hit _unless_ they are using drones (Drones still MWD in deadspace between orbiting your ship and orbitting the target and the sig bloom of the MWD on the drone either doesnt get effected by the sig reduction effect of being in deadspace or its still high enough to get a hit sooner or later - so if you see drones on the 5 degree scan make sure you also probe for them!

It's very VERY _VERY_ funny when you turn up and spank a bunch of people that think they are safe - obviously once word gets out you are busting their missions you should expect sane people to bail from their mission if you are in local (therefore probing with an alt is better since they wont have a clue who is finding them so quickly)

We tend to log the alt in before either logging our mains in or jumping into a system targets are currently in and check the belts to see if you can catch anyone mining

Bat Country got a kill today (first ever??) which I posted on the F13 killboard.  Hauler in a macro mining crew grabbed the wrong ore that some fucktard left out for him  :evil:

Hey nice job!

Irek will be in BC later tonight, we need to think more about who to wardec so it's on for the weekend.

For those watching the wrong thread in updated topics, this is in the other thread on the first wardec (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=11792.0):


So come in for the week and join us!

Looking for new targets now that Eagle has paid us to not wardec them anymore.

Current corps I am looking at:

Ace's Over 8's (ACECO) - 43 Members - Seen: Asidian, Empress Dano, Jane's War, Johny Blaze, Lokiedo, Miggernaught, Ondskan, Raytian, Tyrfing IV,
Angels of the Apocolypse (AOTA) - 57 Members - Seen: Versy, Paratrader, VJohns, Rosko P, Saana Nara, Alaquin Rah,
Glauxian Brothers (GLAUX) - 46 Members - Seen: Shasta Sun, Zap2
Pirho Corporation (PIRHO) - 19 Members - Seen: Blueraja, Vado Miglia
Right To Rule (R2R) 64 Members - Seen: Snow Blade, Dangoumaru,

"Seen" means I've seen them in Sankkansen proper. Any feedback or other suggestions would be greatly appreciated! (Also, if you see folks from these corps please send me their names so I can add to the lists).

They paid us?! Son of a... i've been scooting around belts looking for the bastards. As far as the next target is concerned, i'm open to any of them - though, i suppose that the more members they have the higher chance of us finding more targets.

Yah but I'd rather have someone like Eagle who will let us shoot at them for a week and then give us money to stop. I don't really want to fight a corp that's too gung-ho about a PvP match - I don't really want to be up against HACs on a regular basis!  :uhrr:

Nice to see the first war of the corp completed with a payoff.

As for the corps you have listed, any or all of those are fine with me.  Why not run 2 or 3?  I'm not in game ATM, but wasn't there a small German sounding mining corp that hangs around in the system also?  Last, didn't Endie also have a former carebear corp he wanted dec'd?

Eagle paid us.......

:awesome_for_real: thats awsome.

I figured it would if I sent the 'pay off or else' mail to everyone in the corp, not just the leaders. Someone would cave and pay up.  :grin:

We can do 2 or 3 - I will at least queue them up on the vote part (so I can just hit the 'apply wardec' button when we are ready).. I just don't want to bite off more than we can chew. What I'll probably do is wardec one of these, see how their response is for a couple of days and if it's mild then wardec the next victims.

I'm surprised/impressed they paid you off.  None of the corps we tried getting money from ever paid out when I was in an empire war corp.  They'd never believe we'd retract as promised but now you have a track record in that regard which should make things easier still.

Nice work, Viin.  I guess you hit just the right price-point to make it worthwhile, especially since we'd done a good few hundred mill of damage when you count stuff like the hulk, and pretty much stopped them doing anything but docking up by day 5 or 6.

I am up for starting one or more new wardecs: I learned a lot from this one and am keen to get moar targets :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :etc:

It's a shame our alts aren't a couple of months more experienced: there are a lot of Fix floating around in empire, disconsolately mining and missioning to make bank, while a lot of their remaining pvpers are in Delve and Period Basis.

By the way, how are the values on the KB calculated?  The correct values seem to be seen in the individual killmails for stuff like module and hull loss, but the values in the stats for pilots and corps are way low.

That is pretty awesome guys. Well done :)

The values of the items are divided evenly among everyone who participated in the kill. So if you kill 2.3mil worth of stuff, with 5 peeps, you each get 2.3m/5 (460k) "credit" to your pilot. I think the final blow person may get a little extra than everyone else, but I'm not positive on that. The corp value goes by all the pilots in the corp, so it'd go down if pilots from other corps helped kill a target. But, I'll look at it and see if I can tell for sure (there's no docs!).

Nice... I am surprised they paid. 

Next !!!

Since this is proving to be quite fun, would it be a good idea if I posted a Stahlregen-style recruitment thread in the main MMOG Discussion thread?  Basically, one just letting people know what we're up to pvp-wise, telling them we'll give them all the free frigates they can manage to get blown up, that we'll provide help and advice etc, and pointing out the opportunities for pewpew on free trial accounts.  Considering the number of people who played planetside when Cheddar did his post, there's a good chance we might get a few people interested.

Glad to hear that you guys are having a good time with it. One of these years I'll find some time to get my alt over there.

Bah, I dl'ed a 14 day trial yesterday.  Stupid Pew Pew.  Someone PM me what to do to get in on it.  I'm following the goon wiki on building a tackler and I just finished the tutorial 10 mission thing last night.

I've PM'ed you the goonfleet survival video links, which includes tackling 101 amongst other stuff, as well as two videos on fleet warfare which are a bit larger scale than we do, and slanted towards 0.0, but are still very useful.

When you think you're ready (you're ready: best way to learn is by doing it) then sign up for Bat Country in the Sankassen system.  Join the F13 channel (not secure) and our war channel, which has a different name and is both secure and passworded: someone will give you the location and secret handshake if you ask.  Don't hang around in Sankassen if you're by yourself learning to do stuff, because our targets huddle there in a big mass putting up threat displays.  Check who is online from the corp and ask them if they are (a) really there and (b) hunting targets.

Also ask for money, so you can buy skillbooks without running missions or staring at rocks. An amount that will buy you ten or twelve skillbooks that make you literally 100% better inside a day cost nothing to an established player.  We also have ships in our corp hangars, including rifters, with fittings for you to take: just ask how to access them.

If there are only a couple of people online (welcome to my euro world) and lots of enemies none of whom is daring to head off and mine or mission-run alone then you can always persuade someone to join up with you and grief miners with ore-stealing then blowing them up when they think you're a solitary noob in a frigate. Stuff like that.

Whee pirates, this sounds like fun, why was I not informed previously that this is a possibility?  :awesome_for_real:

This is why I should write a recruitment post in the main MMO forum.  I asked if anyone was in favour: cue eery silence.  So I'll try the other approach: does anyone actively object?  I also have another two or three keen-but-newish mates (a few months old, though one has a killmail with fifth-top-damage on a dread already) who would be keen to join in with their alts.

I think it's a great idea to get more people into the corp, and would love to see Endie recruiting people with chats/posts/etc.  He strikes me as having a real knack for exciting people to try Eve PvP.

The more the better I say, but I'm just a flunky.

Damn you all for piquing my interest again. 0.0 life sucked, but your Empire wardecs sound somewhat fun.   It's making me consider signing-up to play with my Minnie Battlecruiser/ BSer agagin.

Damn you.

I think the recruitment post sounds like a great idea too, Endie.

This would be brilliant: our tactics have been slightly constrained by the fact that they decided to fly the biggest ships they could find and our alts are just moving up through the hierarchy of ships: when we jumped in on them outside the Sankassen station they outnumbered us in ships, battleships, tank and overall dps.  We won, and amazingly even held the field at the end of the fight (and i don't want to say why on the open forum) but if we had another big ship or two we could begin to dictate engagements like that, and try out other stuff.  I've posted some theorycrafting in the super-sekrit war forum about ideas on that front.

And yay I'll try and write a recruitment post for the main forum tomorrow when I should be working.  It will shamelessly rip off Stahlregen's SA recruitment posts.

Which unless I'm blind I still don't have access to.  :mob:

Is someone working on finding us a moderator that can approve people for the super sikrit forum? Or can someone just make Irek a local moderator for that forum? Must schild be bribed with anime and a mario game that will run on the PS3 for that to happen or what?

I have a maelstrom ready to go.  3 days and I'll have tech2 large guns.

I've been lurking in the boards for a few months, and just started eve yesterday.  Any chance i could get in?

Computer kinda blows at the moment and probably couldn't handle too many ships pew pewing at each other at once though.

HE'S A SPYYYYYYYYY

;)

Yes, i just want to get you guys back.

Made the mistake of buying grimgrimore after reading schild's review :(

I think we have to do some sort of qualification period: a month, say, with a decent number of posts?

That mean I will have to de-lurke every 3 years or so?

I usually only post places when i have a reason to. I usually just read.

I don't really know what i'm doing.  Just flying around shooting missles at stuff right now.

If you want to message me my name is WhoFlungDoo. (My guy looks oriental hehe.)  If not i'll just go back to lurking.

I got a good laugh out of that.


But I still think you're a spy.


:tinfoil:

Feel free to join the F13 channel and chat with everyone. Who knows? Maybe they'll decide you aren't a spy eventually.

I've  been thinking about resubbing and maybe joining f13 corp as well so this might be a good time come out of the woodwork  :-)

I can fly BS and was thinking about checking out the trinity visuals.
I was wondering if F13 corp is active during the euro evenings?

oh, and I'm a spy too.

Since war has been declared on F13 as well have we given any thought to just merging the BAT members back into F13 since thats where we all were in the first place?

I thought that the F13 members would be happy not to be wardecced some of the time, whereas those in BC desire a 1984-style constant state of warfare?

Yah the idea is that BC is going to be more aggressive on the wardecs than F13. F13 will get wardec'ed in retaliation (as we have seen this time) but I don't expect them to be bothered most of the time as there are plenty of folks in BC who actually want to fight and will seek out fights.

But, that means that I really need folks to post any PK deaths to the killboard so we can make sure they aren't bothering the F13 corp.

Thanks Endie.  I'll be on tonight see if I can get into -BAT- and help raise some newb <1M SP hell.

I find it amusing when people in a wardeccing corp get pissed that you're not fighting them the way they want you to. My corp got empire wardecced by 3 different corps this weekend. They seem to get upset that when they're sitting outside the station with 5-6 battleships, we don't really see the point in undocking. When most of them logged or left the system, we undocked, found a Deimos, Taranis, and a Rapier and managed to kill the first two but the Rapier got away. We went back to the station where we started and redocked. The Rapier came back to the station and started taunting in local about how we suck and only fight when blobbed and how he'll take on all 8 of us. After listening to this for about 10 minutes (our corp has a rule about no talking to the enemy except for Good Fight), we all undocked and started blasting him. Unfortunately he insta-docked and logged.

It seems so much of Eve fighting (and probably all fighting) is choosing the battlefield. If you can choose where, when, and how to start a fight, most of the time you will win. These griefer wardec corps hate the fact that they can't fight us they way they want.

Yeah, our current targets, after unwisely deciding to try moving around the system in smaller groups, have now stuck religiously in large groups of battleships on the station undock.

That's cool, and like i've said, very clever.  It's a challenge to us (in younger characters, with less numbers, in smaller ships) to work out a way around it.  If we don't, then we've killed more of them than they have of us, against the odds, and we'll pick on someone else next and maybe come back to this lot when we have more tonnage and a nano-BS to bump them with in a few weeks  :awesome_for_real:

Well my corp has a current lack of target corps - if someone wants to PM me the target corp name and the system(s) most of the action is happening in I'll see if my lot are up for the rumble (obviously for free  :-))

Ok, so my corp just got wardecced by someone and we're located in the empire. What are the rules of engagement now then? Can we just shoot at each other anywhere without Concord intervening (near stations, jump gates)? Can we pod freely?

Once the war goes live (24 hours after you get the email) both side can engage and pod at will  :-)

Concord look the other way

Yup, engage at will.  They can camp your station, camp stargates in your home systems, track your missionrunners and kill them, etc.  You can do the same.

You should all keep the Local window open, and add any of their members that you see to your Address Book.  That way, you'll get a green pop-up if they're online, and a red one if they're not, even after they leave the system you're in.  You should also show info on their corporation, and if they have a recruitment channel, join it and grab the names of everyone in there, add to address book and set -6 standing.  It may be another way to find the names of some of their corp members and their hidden alts.

Try to set up safespots in your home systems, locate the nearest manufacturing hub where you can buy replacement ships from, stockpile whatever ships you can use in PVP and their modules, etc.

Is there something special about -6? Why not -10?

I think its a funky orange color...more distinguishable than the red -10 (since war targets are the same red with a star)

Just a reminder to keep war chat in the WARf13 channel. 

Emperor Dano has been hanging out in the public channel all day.

Not even as an alt to hide himself, but openly taunting.

(Falconeer should have some good logs of the idiocy.)

Yeah, if you happen to -6 someone who's not in the corp that has declared on you, it'll be orange, not red.  May be an alt, may be someone who wants to join them, or just wants to chat with them.  In any case, if they're not ganged up, shooting them will get you concordokened, so I prefer different colors just in case.

This is important, people often forget that F13 isn't even sort of meant to be a secure channel, just a place to talk w/ everyone and get basic tips.

I'm looking for a new target to wardec. Keep your eyes peeled for a likely candidate.

May even consider a small alliance, but that would eat into our corp funds quite a bit.

God.

I have to agree this is making coming back so attractive.

Everyone needs more Caldari scum frigate bait

Well, there's a rather stupid -- but well equipped -- band of pirates operating out near Arranon called "Pay Now, Inc". Can't say for size, though. Might just be one or two rich idiots.

Getting a fight with lowsec pirates isn't hard though.  We need to wardec some small mission running corps.  We could always run some bait ops on Pay Now considering how intelligent they seem to be.   :awesome_for_real:

@Llyse & Merusk:  You should come fly with us because you never know how long one of these f13 runs will last.  But right now we've got a solid mix of player types and decent enough activity that its a decent amount of fun.  Feel free to just start a new character on the trial and come fly though to check it out.  Can never have too many frigates  ^^

My char's in BC now.  I'm just never in-game as I'm training shit and actually playing wow because hanging out in Eve bores me to death.  Fuck, even mission running bores me anymore.  :heartbreak:

Same here.

So stop mission running and kill some pirates!

Really, we could do a run every night as long as someone is on to lead the group - whoever is on and has a frigate available would be welcome to join and hunt for targets.

I mission run for the moolah.  Of course, even that's dried-up since it seems like CCP has nerfed L3 payouts since I last played.  My L3 missions only net me around 700k per complete when I bother doing them when I used to get about 900k to a mil.  Considering that's in a .4 zone as well, I don't even want to attempt the other agent who was in a .9 zone but sending me into .4 zones for the objectives.

My wallet is a 'fat' 52 mil, meaning I *could* run frigs for a good long while, but since missioning was always my source of income, I'd be boned if I stopped.

Really, I'm thinking that the game's simply not for me (seeing as I *hate* 'virtual worlds') and I should just sell the acct off and be done with it.

Well what are you going to do with all that ISK after you sell your character?!?  :grin:

Yah sometimes it's a pain. I actually sell a 30day time code once every few months and that keeps me with enough cash to have fun without the grinding. I know some folks don't like that, but, well, my time is more valuable than a $15 time code.

The other option would be to look into research agents and sell what they make you for cash.

(For your missions, I believe the payout is based on where the mission is, not where the agent is. So if your agent sends you to 0.4 it should pay out the same as an agent actually in 0.4 unless that agent sends you into deeper unsecure space. Also, I believe the mission payouts were adjusted to account for the increased money gained from salvaging).

I made 700k and should have made 1.3M just doing some module buying and selling, took me around 45min of travel time but that was with me stopping and checking market data for various regions and doing a bunch of backtracking and figuring out what to look for.  Keep in mind I'm not very smart nor very economic minigame savvy.

If you don't like mission running, don't run missions.  I don't mind it too much as long as I don't actually grind it.  Running a mission or 3 a day is about right for me.  After that if no pvp opportunity has arisen I just hop onto TF2 or go work the markets, mess with fittings, shoot bhodi's raven or take a trip down to jita to pick up some essentials.  The mindset that you should grind something to advance is what burns lots of people out on eve.  But that is a diku mindset.  Just hanging out can be unfun if everybody is afk/busy I'll give you that.  But that's why I have games like Infinity, Desktop tower defense, TF2, not to mention doing some actual productive shit after work.

Since you guys are talking about missions anyway, are there any "save" Level 4" agents ? I fly for the minmatar republic fleet and all agents I have access to are located in below 0.6 systems. Which, if I am not mistaken means that I will get ganked sooner or later.

I was missioning out of a .5 system (constellation was a .4, a .5, and the rest were .8 and up) and making about 500 to 700k per L3 mission, but I was pulling down -- on average -- 2 to 3 million in loot, not counting salvage. Bounties ranged around the 400 to 700k mark per mission as well.

Of course, I happened to be in that .4 system when that fucknuts from Pay Now showed up (thanks again Iain!) and have since moved to an all high-sec mission area, so perhaps things will change.

But I never looked to the mission payouts -- I was after LP's and loot. The bounties and payoffs were just steady income, but the profits came from the nice named drops.

Newb Question:

When I finished the last part of the tutorial last night, the final tutorial agent said she'd bookmark an agent for me in my "People and Places" tab and I could use that Agent to start running missions.  Only, for whatever reason, it didn't seem to happen.  I have 3 agents in there, all of them tutorial agents and none of them have missions for me.

Now on to the dumb question:  What should I do?  Is there a way for me to find agents?  Should I just fly around a bit randomly looking for possible agents?  Am I really even asking this annoying dumb newbie question?  Find out in the next post!

http://eve-agents.com/ (http://eve-agents.com/) is your friend.

Awesome, thanks!

In the map, there in a "My Information" section which has a show available agents option as well.

Wow, thanks, I apparently have a metric fuckton of available agents.

I'm 10 days in so let my wealth of experience in dealing with agents guide you.

Get connections.  Train it to 3.  Make $$$.

Capiche?


Seriously though, connections, even 1 level of it, will allow you to get MUCH better quality agents.  Connections 3 got me from dorking around with moderate L1 Q0 agents right into the L2's.  If you started with one of the builds that gives you Frigate IV beg some cash off the channel and get into a cruiser and skip the L1 missions almost altogether.  You will make 5-10x as much on a L2 (I've pulled close to two million on a mission after selling the drops) it's made a huge difference to my enjoyment and my wallet.

I have connections to five. It's driving me nuts. I have Gallente Federation standing of 4.34 and need 4.35 to access the PERFECT L3 agent. So I'm off doing L2's in a battlecruiser (I have a pair of good quality L2 agents in the same station) until I trigger a storyline mission to bump my standing up .01.

But yeah -- connections to 3/5 helps a lot. So do the ones that increase LP gain, mission payouts, and the agent's effective quality. If you're a dedicated missioner, it's worth training the cheap social skills to at least 2/5.

I'm at Caldari Cruiser II and have around 500k isk, so I'm currently in the process of building up enough money to buy a Caracal.

Note: You really ought to train the +CHA basic learning skill to 2 or 3 if you are going to take any of those skills to 4-5 otherwise you're pretty much ok taking it to Level1.  If you setup a full plan in EVEmon it will do the min/maxing for you.

PS  Caracals are fun and win for both pvp dps and mission running.  Once you have the money to buy+insure one for yourself, buy one and send the insurance cost in an evemail to Irek he will reimburse you.

PPS  Also remember to always keep two tackling frigates fitted and insured somewhere nearby so that you can pewpew at will.

We usually have lots of bored rich people in the F13 channel, just ask for a handout to get you started and you're likely to have a million isk thrown at you.

The 500k isk I have is thanks to Furiously! :)

Whats your name in game? I got 10 mil for ya cevik.

Yeah look, if you are starting out at the moment and short of cash (by which I mean that, say, you really would like to buy the salvaging skill but 900,000 seems such a lot of money) then PM me no the boards or mention it here in this thread.  I've only had to replace 1 ship in Delve so far, I have tons of money and it will seriously make a lot more difference to you than me.  I would genuinely like to give you money.  Don't grind for pennies or worry about losing a ship!

Also, remember to insure your free frigates if you come along on Saturday's gang: you will make hundreds of thousands each time you die and run a profit on the night.

If you're a long time player who finds the isk grind a drag, mission for R&D corps and train up those research skills. Datacores are amazing even if you don't grind out the L4 agents. Datacores are extra amazing if you play sporadically. Imagine having an injection of 30M+ every time you sat down for a new bout of Eve. :)

Yeah, I left an L2 research agent running last time I quit and finally collected on my datacores -- 75 million. You just need to remember that you have them. I didn't until someone else was bragging on research money.

It's very time consuming and expensive to get multiple research agents up, so I wouldn't recommend that unless you're planning to play for a long time.

I dunno, I really liked doing the (what I suppose are) L1 missions. I'm all running around warping here and there and blowing the shit out of stuff. That's fun. I like pew pew, even if I'm blowing up NPC scum, because I think the mechanics are neat.  :awesome_for_real:

Now, if they'd get their servers up and running this morning.  :oh_i_see:

Missions can be fun once in a while.  However, doing the L3 missions just gets to be a chore. I think it's mainly because of the flight time in the brick of a ship you need to complete them successfuly and # of NPCs thrown at you.  Add-in annoying shit like webbing/ jamming while trying to pop 6-8 ships before they break you for a payout LESS than your ship insurance and it's downright frustrating.

Maybe I should go back to running L2s in my AF. That was always kind of fun.

Well, there I was in a belt mining. 2 fellows were playing ore stealing games here at Niyabainen (next to Jita). They had been stealing my ore for 2 days straight, coming in with a hauler chain and aligned swiping as I was jetcanning.

Finally, I got fed up. I fit a scrambler, then when one of them in a sigil made his next pass, he was just a tiny bit too slow on the warp and I scrambled and popped him with my drones. Then, I warped out and his buddy made a beeline for my jetcan. Luckily, Neranna and Neike were on the case -- he was quickly dispatched as well. Kinda. He panicked and ejected his pod and warped away, leaving a nice iteron which Neike got, free of charge.

Sweet, sweet revenge. Now, I want to take it a step farther. I'd like to propose a new target:

Gamers Domain Marine Corps (MCGD).

They've only got 7 members. Is it cheaper to wardec small corps? If not, Oh well. I'd like to throw it up there for just a week or two. They appear to be all miners.

Good for occasional practice?

Sure why not, not like 7 ppl can stand a chance against 30 :)

Good job, Bhodi.  I almost cried a little when I read that.

Bhodi, you got any good advice for ore thievery?  Because I was thinking of doing some tonight or Friday. 

Ore thievery is easy. Find someone who is Jetcan mining. Come in a hauler and align so that you will pass within 1.5m (lootable range) of his jetcan. Make sure you are moving top speed.  Open the jetcan (this will not flag you), drag whatever's in it to your cargo (this WILL flag you), and immediately warp away. Since you were already aligned, you should be able to get away clean with a cargo hold full of ore. Wait 15 minutes, rinse, repeat.

Alternately, there is the 'baiting' tactic -- this is stealing the ore, same as above, but be "accidentally" a little slow aligning or not aligned at all. Hopefully the miner will target and attack you, at which point it's open season on him. Your buddies then warp in and pop him.

it's all pretty cut and dry, however, I am not clear on a few points:

1. If you loot someone's wreck / cargo container, you are red to them (able to be attacked). Are you red to their corp and/or their fleet / will they get concorded if they attack?
2. If you attack someone who looted you, so that they are red to you for 15m, does that make you able to be attacked freely by their corp and / or fleet?
3. If someone loots your wreck or container, does that make him able to be attacked by just your corp, your fleet, or only yourself?

I know the general rule is "If they aren't flashing red, you will get concorded if you attack". Who gets attack rights, when?

Oops, misread.  Nevermind, not sure on wrecks.

Well, cargo containers too.. I think it's the same mechanic. I'm just unsure of the fleet / corp participation on the flagging. Edited for clarity.

I know you can salvage wrecks free of problems -- don't know about looting.

So, after I logged with my main, I left my alt in-system. If we wardec this corp, we could have a decent fight on our hands.

Val Mengsk is the one of the guys in the ore stealing corp.

Deteis is some random dude, obviously an alt, possibly a friend of his, in the newb corp. I had a few conversations with him earlier today, and he flat out called me a liar when I told him I was running L4s in a raven and claimed it was impossible with under 6M SP. That log was particularly hilarious. He then wanted me to come over and kill him in my "raven" so he could see my setup. Idiot.

DETEISxBYxTRADE > bhodi
DETEISxBYxTRADE > y u wanna dec war on a miner corp?
Val Mengsk > Lol Aoa Lux, we're already outnumbered, outgunned and outskilled, please don't join in unless you want to help me. XD
DETEISxBYxTRADE > they r no challange?
DETEISxBYxTRADE > lol
DETEISxBYxTRADE > wow
DETEISxBYxTRADE > noobs vs noobs
DETEISxBYxTRADE > and u wonder why senior pilots stay in npc corps
DETEISxBYxTRADE > lol
Val Mengsk > Hehehehehehehe.
DETEISxBYxTRADE > val
DETEISxBYxTRADE > if u get war dec
DETEISxBYxTRADE > let me know
Val Mengsk > Yessir?
Val Mengsk > Copy that.
Aoa Lux > *wardecs*
Val Mengsk > Lulz.
DETEISxBYxTRADE > i cant promise u the world, but i can prob get 4-8 3 year vets out here for u
Val Mengsk > Hopefully it won't even come to that.
DETEISxBYxTRADE > my boys r tied up atm
DETEISxBYxTRADE > i doubt that any of bhodis friends r in tech 2 ships and such
DETEISxBYxTRADE > u will b in good hands
Aoa Lux > lol, highsec wars with old chars. no point. no caps
DETEISxBYxTRADE > sriously
DETEISxBYxTRADE > lol
DETEISxBYxTRADE > we have a few jita gates camped for war targets atm
DETEISxBYxTRADE > so we have a few in area
DETEISxBYxTRADE > no biggie
Aoa Lux > a focused 6mo alt could be just as effective
DETEISxBYxTRADE > but how many chars r focused these days?  @_-
DETEISxBYxTRADE > lol
Val Mengsk > *Shrug*
DETEISxBYxTRADE > that like saying there are genrous bean counters
Val Mengsk > Hmmmmm.

They seem to feel the lack of T2 ships is somehow a drawback in a high-sec war. :)

"genrous bean counters?"  :headscratch:

I wonder if we start making it a habit to wardec people who can't seem to comprehend the English language just to see if they hold on to their big words.

When considering ore thievery, it's not something I personally would like to even be remotely connected to. Ever since I can recall vulturing is the lowest of lows in MMOs. Kill me, loot me, I'm fine with that, but it takes no skill to make an alt and start dragging other peoples loot into your backpack or cargo hold. I know EVE has measures against this, with flagging and locked containers, but it's disrespectful against anyone and in EVE ore thievery is the most frowned upon profession, even when it's one of the oldest. The strongest measure against it will always be the condemnation from the general playerbase.

I am more lenient with EVE however, simply because it can get dull very fast and any alternative activity shouldn't be overlooked (cybering services for ISK, suicide ganking, etc), but vulturing is just resorting to the simplest way to annoy and anger other players. Of course I can forgive a person for doing it. I have quite fond memories of explaining newbies why they shouldn't vulture and gaining a little mutual respect that way. A few I still talk to this day and a couple I've even met in person later on.

So yeah, sorry for the derail </moral police>

Why do you guys always have to declare war on morons? Aren't there any nice people for you to declare war on?

I support the Darwinian approach to PvP...

Bat Country

Making the EVE universe a better place, 1 pod-kill at a time.

Why would I want to declare war on a great tactical genius? *boggle*

I think Gets has a point. F13 should think hard whether it wants to get labelled as an ore thief corp. There's a reason most ore thieves are alts.

It baffles me that e-pirates draw the line at ore stealing. (I'm not saying I'd do it or have done it; I'm still a newbie!)


It just doesn't make sense. Eve is about lying, killing, and stealing!

I don't think F13 is planning on doing it. Hoax is thinking about it, but so far the most I've heard about it is Bhodi blowing one up.

I think my problem with ore thieving is that it seems to hit mostly the newbies. They're having a bad enough time mining goddam veldspar to scrape up money for their first cruiser without having somebody steal it. It's the kind of thing that makes someone quit in the trial period.

I'm all for a wardec on ore thieves and grammar idiots.

We do alot of 'can flipping/flagging/swapping' either during slow wars or between wars (I wont call it ore theft because most of the time we will blow the can up, especially if the miner isnt biting), I think the reason it's looked down on so much is because (if you are align-stealing in a hauler) theres usually little risk and the theif stays docked up for the rest of the timer. Typically most jet canners are noobs and/or npc corp.

I guess the difference between ore theives and can flippers is a can flipper will eject his own can, move the ore into that and hang around for the fireworks

Personally (and this isnt something my corp enforces, just personal preferance) I wont flip jet canners flying anything smaller than a Destroyer/Cruiser - I'm not however picky about character age (they have to learn sooner or later) and while NPC corps are prefered (to avoid more surprises than what ship the guy might come back in) we do flip player corps (especially mining ops) if we're pretty sure we can solo them before backup arrives. Mining battleships (hopefully flown by people who purchased their account) are the best http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=putit%20inme&filter=losses&id=3075465#mail (thats no ordinary Apoc!)

If I find someone ratting in a half decent frigate (Kestrel or Merlin for e.g.) I'd probably steal their loot to see if I can get a fight out of them (tends to get more bites than can flipping as the 'victim' thinks hes got a decent combat fit) and usually we try and achieve the kill in the smallest ship possible (Crows are good for this, I said small not fair!).

Its probably worth noting that alot of our empire war targets are determined by the amount of smack we get during can flips - the more smack the more likely they are of seeing more of us (plus we already know where they hang out).

On the flip side if someone is a good sport about it all I'm happy to give them pointers on ship fitting and how not to get hit next time, hell the last guy I killed I ended up giving him 5mil (he lost an Osprey and a Kestrel) because he was a really good sport about it.

Every once in a while you get some brave soul who thinks he can take it back and get away with it
http://kb.evefan.dk/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22
(they put some mercs on us after this so we went to war with them after the mercs were gone)

Each pilot on the kill made 30mil each off the loot - ironically in chat afterwards he said he'd have paid 500mil ransom (unfortunately it was the first command ship we'd fought and I wanted the killmail) :-(


1. If they are in a player corp you are flagged to the whole corp (but not any alliance they are part of) but not any non-corp gang mates
2. No, if you attack a flagged target only that target can shoot you - the 'victim' is always in control of who can shoot him back
3. Inverse of 1. - Your whole corp can attack him

One of my guys in his early days flipped some guys can, the timer ran out, the guy came back in a Badger with 2 Ravens as backup. The Badger took back (and died) the Ravens thought they could now engage and got concorded (http://www.eve-pirate.com/index.php?/archives/790-The-last-wednesday-of-the-every-month-Payday.html)

Here are some freebies :-)

If a secure container is not anchored (lights are green) it can be stolen from just like a jet can (this will flag you) alternatively you could just scoop the can itself (which will _not_ flag you) - Secure containers cannot be anchored above 0.8 space!

If you are worried about getting someone flipping your can and you not noticing _never_ turn of the "theft" warning or dont jet can mine! (best thing is to mine with a hauler buddy, just use a bookmark or 1 unit of non-ore to keep the can open and grab the ore as soon as it hits the can - lag means that this is not 100% foolproof as I have stolen from people doing this in the past)

and if you want to can flip/ore steal beware of 'bait' cans/ship - the Osprey can be a formidable opponent when _not_ fitted for mining and beware of cloakers :-)

For those wondering why we don't go to lowsec......we do, and its typically empty unless you go to one of the 'hotspot' systems in which case youre probably going home in a pod or worse (we're a very small fish in that very big pond), then theres the sec hit to consider (I'm -1.3 currently).

Having said all that we don't get loads of kills from can flipping, partly because I'm neg sec and have a bounty, partly because in the area we typically flip we're quite known for it and partly because the victims learn quickly and pass their knowledge on so you do get diminishing returns on the time invested if you always flip in the same patch of space (and the loot is typically junk most of the time - although we do like T2 stip miners on those rare occasions you can get a barge pilot to play)

Yeah, if you're in a player corp, the cans you jet are owned by the corp, so whoever steals gets flagged to the corp.  If you're in an NPC corp, the cans are owned by you. 

If you shoot a flagged thief he has a right to defend against you.  But he can't shoot at anyone who didn't attack first.

WAH WAH Ore thieves got me, ore thieves are the scum of the universe. Like anything in this game, there are measures to allow yourself not to be stolen from. Like many other things in this game, an alt account is insanely useful. Instead of a can, you are basically throwing it to your haulers hold. When it fills up, you keep mining while you fly you alt to drop off the goods. I know, I know...not everyone can have an alt...but in this game be used to not doing everything the next guy can if you don't. Just how the game is. Also, anchoring a giant secure can make this ore thievery a non-issue. Thats why you see hundreds everywhere.

Of course, this is coming from a high sec suicide ganker....so take it for what its worth.

/shrugs

Do what you like. I won't mention it again for fear of Slayerik going "waaah" at me again. Cause that always makes me cry.

Yeah. Even though I'm technically a newbie (in terms of char SP) I'm definitely not in terms of my mining ship -- I've pretty much got what that apoc had, but in a rokh (better for mining anyway) minus the CPU IIs and MLU IIs -- I've got 4 MLU 1s and a named coprocessor to fit (oh, and now a warp scrambler mid).

Needless to say, I'm cautious about getting flagged and popped. I try and stack as much as I can - The only reason why I agressed these guys was it was a 7 man corp, and 3 of them were in belt, all 3 in haulers and with several day old characters. I aligned before scrambling just in case the cavalry warped in, plus I had 2 corpmates on their way.

I consider flipped cans a trap and had I been versus 5150, an experienced character, instead of a 3 day old newbie in a newbie corp, I'd have just eaten the loss and docked up or moved somewhere else.

After the incident, I went ahead and got a badger 1 on my alt to haul for me. I still jetcan, as I cycle my entire cargo hold every minute, and my alt with a badger 1 can just barely keep up by ferrying to the nearby station.