f13.net

Jade Raymond makes video games. And she’s a beautiful woman. That’s a recap of most of the problem, right there. That’s basically all she did to deserve the pornographic comics about her that surfaced on the net last week.

The only thing you can do is point out what a hostile environment this creates for women in the game industry.

My biggest problem is that she was "whoring herself out" to get more press for the game.

You might have a point if she was walking around half naked or doing Maxim photo shoots or something.

this is the industry where major games still feature collectible porn cards for bedding as many women as possible.

I'm pretty sure there were nudie cards in some LSL games.

Perhaps I should stop reading Kotaku and UK Resistance?

Isn't this eerily like the plot of Grandma's Boy?

What a great angle for a troll account.

Continue, as you have my blessings.

Tin Foil More Hats Plz.

So, some random internet fuckwad makes an offensive drawing, so therefore the entire industry is full of frothing misogynists, and if you don't acknowledge that you're part of the problem.  Does that about sum it up?

This thread is full of irony.

I think I should register jadedefenseforce.com in hopes she'll let me stick it in her pooper.

So, some random internet fuckwad makes an offensive drawing, so therefore the entire industry is full of frothing misogynists, and if you don't acknowledge that you're part of the problem.  Does that about sum it up?

I take issue with the implication that random_internet_fuckward_01 is single-handedly keeping women out of the game industry by drawing offensive pictures.

More like "internet jerk makes offensive drawing, other mysoginist internet jerks link it approvingly

Good thing nobody actually implied that.

I think Raymond has every right to want pornographic comics about her off the Internet, even if it’s futile. But I don’t think Ubisoft sending cease-and-desist letters to Something Awful is going to help at all; it’s nothing Lowtax and other sewer-of-the-Internet site administrators haven’t seen before. The only thing you can do is point out what a hostile environment this creates for women in the game industry. The treatment of Jade Raymond sends a message to female developers everywhere that is what will happen if you’re “too pretty” and “too well-known” and “talk too much,” even if you conduct yourself with utter professionalism. Game industry execs often bemoan the dearth of female game developers and players, the gender-lopsidedness of their teams. This story ought to show them a very concrete reason why there’s a lack of women in some parts of gaming. A change in culture is way overdue.

Actually, the part that really irritates me is that last sentence about "a change in culture". 

Should she have worn a burkha?

Remember ladies, you can work on games but you keep your face away from a camera.  That's men's work.  If you look good it means you're a whore and if you're not then you're a fat pig.  Either way you'll be ridiculed.

1. The piece unfairly blames an entire culture.
2. The piece implies that "random_internet_fuckward_01 is single-handedly keeping women out of the game industry."

Those are mutually exclusive.

Nothing wrong with it, but if you put pictures of yourself on the Interwebs, and you are in any way famous, it is a fact of life that you won't like some of the uses to which those pictures are put.

Get a hold on yourself. Siding with the pathetic creep is never a good idea. And yes, fanfic slash writers are pathetic creeps as well if it is a TV celeb. So what kind of defense is that?

Blaming the lack of women in the industry on this when this type of thing is something that is much more common in other industries (and hasn't stopped women from entering them) is unproductive to the real issue of why there aren't more women in the industry.

Sexism and sexual objectification is pretty bad just in normal software engineering, let alone games.

Ok, ok, serious question. Since we have many legal types on f13, could one of them elaborate on the validity of Ubisoft sending a letter to Lowtax?

When you are talking about normal software engineering, are you talking about workplace sexism and sexual objectification or sexism in the final product?

Workplace.

snip

edit: Can you imagine if Jade ever saw a 4chan thread about herself?

You might be right about the attractiveness thing, but I'd like to point out that both non-white people are up front.  That just makes it funnier, in my opinion.

Of course, I wouldn't see that since I'm not a racist.   :awesome_for_real:

You want to know why people are pissed at her and ridicule her to no end? This picture.

(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6918/jaderaymondandteam1fu3.jpg)

This picture is some epic bullshit. Who is the lead designer, lead combat designer, lead artist, and sound director? Do you know? No.

Do you know the producer? Do you know what a producer does? Do you know why this picture never should've gotten taken? I think you doooooooo.

I don't see where you get your sense of entitlement from.

If you have ever gone to the grocery store and stared at magazine covers as you wait for your stuff to be rung up you notice that almost every one of them is graced by attractive faces.  Why is that?  Would it be to sell magazines?

She used her hotness to become the most important person on that team in the eye of the public. That's epic failure if ever I've seen a case.

So what you are saying is that it is her fault all this happened? That's wrong on so many levels.  If she is the most important person in the eye of the public, that's purely the  media's fault and those members of the public that can't handle seeing the faint outline of a breast in professional casual dress.

the one where women, even attractive women, have jobs and talk to the public without being called whores?

When is the games industry going to grow up and join the rest of the adult world - the one where women, even attractive women, have jobs and talk to the public without being called whores?

Is it that odd to have a game's producer present a video game at a conference, or trade show or whatever? Schild makes it sound like its such an odd move, the only possible reason for it would be her appearance.

Spare me the Susan B. Anthony, Seneca Falls bullshit.  She was a producer of Assassin's Creed.  And yet she was being promoted just as much as the game was, and while in a position that doesn't usually call for that level of public exposure.

Like it or not, she was promotional material for the game.  You can blame Ubisoft alone for that, but more likely I think both parties were involved in that decision.  At the point where you're using your sex appeal to promote a product you lose all credibility with the "I'm just a poor producer who was never given a chance by the misogynist gaming world" argument.

Clearly this means she's a whore, right?

Clearly this means she's a whore, right?

Can either of you ever name a producer besides Warren Spector or Shigeru Miyamoto that was put in the open as much as her?

It means you don't get to compare yourself to other producers who are actually, y'know, selling their game, rather than themselves

Can either of you ever name a producer besides Warren Spector or Shigeru Miyamoto that was put in the open as much as her?

Eeccccckckkkkkkkk, it disgusts me to even name those 2 people in the same thread as the producer of AC.

How many of these producers (male or female) are a viable spokesperson for their game/company?  How many of them would or could promote a game?  How many of them would give PR seizures at the thought of them being on the public stage?

It's goddamn sad she can't win with anybody.

And again, you can't tell me that she didn't have some inkling that this is exactly what was happening.  Sorry cousin, but this isn't entirely the media's fault.

It's goddamn sad she can't win with anybody.

You refuse to play everything Miyamoto has made since like 1994.

Producer isn't a very well defined role, so it's hard to say.

It means you don't get to compare yourself to other producers who are actually, y'know, selling their game, rather than themselves.  It means your status as a "victim" can be called into question when you were instrumental in putting your attractiveness front and center in the game's marketing.

And again, you can't tell me that she didn't have some inkling that this is exactly what was happening.  Sorry cousin, but this isn't entirely the media's fault.

She won with me. She's super fucking hot. I bet I could kick her ass at any game ever made though, including ones I haven't played. 

Yeah you're right.  I must have missed all those interviews  where she sat there, licked her lips and sucked on a banana because for a moment there I could have sworn that all she was doing was talking professionally and enthusiastically about the game's develpment, and giving credit where credit was due.

She's a hot girl talking about something that geeks like, they hire these girls all the time to work at trade shows, E3, etc., it just happens she permanently employed by the company she is promoting.  Seems nothing more like a figurehead to me.

Boothbabes, figureheads, and game marketers don't have CS degrees and spend their previous years out of the limelight writing code for shitty SOE/EA games... Simply so they could emerge one day to "talk to geeks".

Do me a favor here (all guys should really enjoy this) google the name: Allison Stokke.

More pics (http://pixelninja.se/photo.html), less talky!

The only people making a big deal of her are the chicken littles that can't handle an attractive woman being in a position of power.  Would it be different if her ass was the size of my four wheeler?  Yeah, it would, noone would give a damn.

You know what else could have made this different besides four-wheeler ass?

Her ignoring the original comic completely like the immature, half-wit joke that it was. Sending out C&D's just made a mountain out of a goddamn microbe.

If you are going to be the public face of ANYTHING with a fanbase, you better be prepared to get some seriously hurtful ridicule. Fuck, ask Raph... I'm sure a comic with jizz on his face would be heavensent as opposed to the "developers should be shot" comments that Internet assholes like me have leveled at SWG.

She was the victim of some meanies and she boo hooed. The Internet hates crybabies, no matter how justified they might be. But the Internet LOVES them some drama.

I haven't heard that Jade Raymond responded at all.  Ubisoft's lawyers did.  Huge difference there.

Seriously though, in the legal profession we describe this as "knew or should have known."

• Does putting a hawt person in lots of interviews necessarily whoring? No.
• Should a hawt chick be taken seriously when discussing the game she helped produced. Yes.
• Is a producer in her position often used to give game interviews? Often enough.
• Would there be better people to describe the game? Arguably yes. They all know the inner workings of the whole thing.
• Should she have known that she was chosen for how HAWT  :ye_gods:  :grin: she is?  Yes.
• Did she think it was going to go this far? No.
• Is she reaping what people in the media have often gotten, despite it being unfair? Of course.

Either she knew this kind of stuff was going to happen and just made a gametime decision that it wasnt going to be that bad or she should have known. Their marketing guys/gals most likely didnt shove her into this with out some sort of agreement. She just didnt think it was going to be this bad.

Did she deserve what she got? Nope. Did she whore herself? Whore is too harsh a word. But she knew she was trading on her looks. She deserved some ribbing but not cries of whore or drawings of fellatio.

Did she deserve what she got? Nope. Did she whore herself? Whore is too harsh a word. But she knew she was trading on her looks. She deserved some ribbing but not cries of whore or drawings of fellatio.

Go to the end of my post, rocket-man, where I say:


She knew or should have known she'd be some kind of target for bad press. The trade-off of "use looks for sales" earns you some-a-dat.
But she doesnt deserve cum on her face. If my mother or sister or wife had that done to them, I'd be the first one lined up to kick their ass.

I guess what Im saying is that for everyone that's on the other side of the argument (the side saying she's not a whore (which I dont think she is)) you have to admit that there's a bell going off for everyone that she did a bit of trading looks for sales. Be honest with yourself.

I'm not sure if this is due to the gaming media, but I think I've heard the term "Jade Raymond's team" before. It seems quite untypical for what is essentially an unknown producer to have her name bantered around like that, and that might be due to the media.

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this angle - but maybe the comic was about the way the media and the public responded to Jade (or is that too deep? I have no clue what that chugworth guy is like)

Practically everything we recieve is filtered through the media. I'm pretty sure all the gaming webbies would rather have Jade talking about Assassin's Creed than the lead designer. The fact that we see a lot of Jade is not necessarily her fault, simply for being an attractive woman in a male-dominated industry puts her in a spotlight. Albeit I do think Ubisoft i milking her for all she is worth, this lawsuit has only put assassin's creed at the front of everyone's minds.

I have to ask, how typical is it for the producer to be giving all the talks and that sort of thing? Her being producer would seem to imply she makes some of the executive decisions, where were the talks by the designers? I for one don't see her as that articulate or a good speaker, though obviously she isn't brainless.

The comic is unfair in the way it sexualises her role, but that is something the media has done and nobody seemed to really complain until someone 'blatantly' does it (the comic could just be a comment on Jade's portrayal in the public :P). I don't think whoever was responsible at ubisoft cared about her portrayal. If you ask me now that someone has gone and explicitly made the connection between Jade's attractiveness and her being the public face for a game, ubisoft makes a huge issue out of it, as if to cover their asses and say they weren't exploiting her looks (this is done in practically every media outlet - it really doesn't need to be discussed).

After going and digging up the comic, my impression is very much that the comic was more of a commentary on the media portrayal than it was on Raymond herself.

I don't think that's the case since in the first frame of the comic has her acting stupid, unable to pronounce creator.

Which is obviously not how she really is.  She is also drawn in the infamous fictional green and white Maxim bikini.  Which is why I don't think the comic is poking fun at Raymond herself but at the media portrayal/geek fantasy version of her.  And more so at the pimply nerds who buy into it and equate spending money on a game that a girl made with sexual gratification.

Wow, it's like 1965 all over again.

When is the games industry going to grow up and join the rest of the adult world - the one where women, even attractive women, have jobs and talk to the public without being called whores?

It is dangerous to be a beautiful woman in the games industry. Oh, it's difficult to be a woman, period. But if you also happen to be attractive, you are doubly cursed. On the one hand, yes, when you're at a conference where you are among a handful of women, you are remembered, and that is advantageous. But for every break you may get for being female and attractive you get a chorus of voices telling you that you don't deserve it because, well, you are attractive, and obviously you can't possibly have gotten where you are without seducing men along the way. And I am devastated to say that sometimes joining in those voices are other women.

Then you didnt see the version where she's naked I guess.

On the other hand, the geeks seem to be getting a good deal.

so if i like...post a comic of uh..let's say Pete Hines getting a media blow job from game reviewers...cause he gave em 50 bucks. Would that make Bethesda sue my ass and the internet defend him?  :ye_gods:

You know what I love about this kind of argument where looks are pretty much the only basis for it?

When a girl stands up for a girl, it's just completely obvious bias.
When a guy stands up for the girl, he's obviously hoping she'll see that and give him a go.

No one can win, except the people who feel no sympathy at all. Mostly because, at the end of the day, we just don't give a fuck.

Can you please point to the threads where people say Newell is not qualified for his position because he is fat?

I'm confused when did Jade become "not qualified" to be a producer. I'm sure she's qualified.

(edit) Here is a link to people who agree with me.

I asked for threads where people said he was unqualified because he was fat.

From the first page of Google results:

"Gabe Newell is such a fat lazy bastard."

"reminds me of old manager who got fired for being (fat, lazy, greasy. ..."

"Gabe Newell is a fat piece of garbage that couldnt hold his own in the console market."

"ahahahahaha valve is a bunch of fat lazy bastards"

"Maybe all such hatred enables him to consume some fat? lol gabe newell is fat lol"

"why did he get voted down. the guy is fat. very fat."

"that slob of an excuse for a human being mr Newell can sit on his fat ass, ..."

No, nobody at all seems to be linking weight with qualifications.  No sir.

Again: lol Internet.

"Gabe Newell is such a fat lazy bastard."

"reminds me of old manager who got fired for being (fat, lazy, greasy. ..."

"Gabe Newell is a fat piece of garbage that couldnt hold his own in the console market."

"ahahahahaha valve is a bunch of fat lazy bastards"

No, nobody at all seems to be linking weight with qualifications.  No sir.

Yes, people on the internet can be mean.

I said I wouldn't post in this topic again, but I will on a different subject: that Lum page rules.

"Restraining orders may be needed"? The fuck? It may be a cliche but some people really need to get laid.

Unsub, Gaming journalism didn't crack this story.

Kotaku did via NeoGAF.

Wake me up when either of them are considered journalism. Also, once something hits SA or /b/, it's fucking everywhere. It's a small cyberspace we live in.

Games journalism isn't to blame for this one.

Now, as for focusing on her instead of the lead dev, most journalists will take an interview with whoever they can get. There's no question UBISoft has been pushing the pretty face on them. Why interview the designer when you can interview this sweet looking chick? Most journos won't turn that down because she is, after all, the producer. And an interview is an interview.

Even though game interviews suck ass.

Call me crazy, but I want people who actually worked on the game talking about THEIR game and not the person who made sure the right build was on the FTP dump and the artists had the right assets in the right folders. Look, I'm all for good producers and I'm friends with a good number of them. They're very good at their job. But I've never known a single one of them to take any undue credit. You have to be SOMEWHAT humble to be a producer. But it doesn't even matter. She used her hotness to become the most important person on that team in the eye of the public. That's epic failure if ever I've seen a case.

What next, you'll try to convince me that "Pussy Galore" was a purely innocent name chosen entirely at random?

What did Jade from Beyond Good and Evil have to do with the piece. Nothing. The only point was to make a joke about how hot Jade is.

All I find myself thinking is people watched Baywatch for Pam Anderson's acting right....

I don't get why we can't simply file this under creative usage of rule #34 of the internet.

Some guy did a comic for a cheap laugh while pretty much sprinting over the line of decency. Like that's never been done before.

Jade suffers? Jade "suffers" maybe. Who gives a rats ass if a bunch of randoms on the internet are talking about her. It's not like we're going to fuck her, or even ever meet her.

On gametrailers today.

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6200/jadelolcm8.png)

Please don't show anybody the comic. We need her in the public eye more. MORE. MOOOOOOOOOAR.

I suspect that if only the Assassin dude was only displayed, with the same headline it would suggest that the interview is with the assasin dude

I...don't understand. People can't take issue or come to the defense of something, except when there's some kind of possibility that they'll get laid for doing it?

Hmm

Stuff like that puts the response people have had to this comic in place, especially in terms of the feminist angle.

No one seemed to be complaining before that Jade was being sexualised or taken advantage of, but one comic and suddenly the whole games industry is full of sexist pigs.

People like having stuff to write and complain about.

David did a fine job of summing it up.

Artist Dave Cheung Responds To Jade Raymond Drama (http://teh-dave.deviantart.com/)

 
<interview>

Actually, he just writes a pretty deviant and funny webcomic.

Has nothing to do with being a "White Knight". I stepped in because people started making comments about her being in the industry just for being "pretty". When as far as I can tell, she has in fact done coding duties for games, and has an education that plays into it. Whether this information "effects" anyone in real life or not is irrelevant. Facts are their own reward.

Edit by Trippy: cut it out

I feel much much stupider for having read that.

His defense is nonsense, unless his defense is that he is a really shitty writer who does a terrible job of properly conveying a point.

There is a comic to be made about how Jade was whored out by Ubisoft and how pathetic geeks masturbate to her. He didn't make that comic. What he made instead was a comic that portrayed her as personally stupid and slutty. If he attempted to comment merely on Ubisoft and the fans he failed miserably. So either he is rationalizing or he is shitty at what he does, take your pick.

Based on that interview abject stupidity is a likely suspect.

Are you seriously saying that someone in the public eye should be treated like a private person. Hint: The law doesnt. And Im giving her the benefit of the doubt that she has a brain and recognizes all this.  Surely when movie stars are caught in the tabloids, they know at least some of what they're getting into. Jade is hardly a movie star, but spokespeople have to be ready for such things.

I really dont care if you believe my personal caveats. That's your decision. I didnt care for the cartoon at all. I'm merely saying that being a public spokesperson carries with it the knowledge of some public ribbing.

Artist Dave Cheung Responds To Jade Raymond Drama (http://teh-dave.deviantart.com/)

    When someone makes a joke about you, it is YOU who chooses whether or not it becomes EPIC BUTTHURT, not the other way around.

Unless of course other people around you choose to become EPIC BUTTHURT as well and decide not to use you because you cause too many problems, or decide that it's a great joke that you should never be allowed to forget.

The guy who wrote the comic is just some other random internet douche who happens to have some artistic talent. Doesn't make him someone worth giving a shit about.

There's no way in fucking hell ANYTHING to do with that cartoon was about Ubisoft and marketing.

Try this :  "I wrote this cartoon because pretty women frighten and disgust me, while I am also strangely drawn to my sexual fantasies of them."

I agree with Ironwood, I would have much more respect if the guy just told the truth. A pretty successful woman gets his panties in his bunch so it helps his ego to draw her as a dumb slut who will suck cock for sales, literally a whore.

I'm really getting tired of people saying what they actually think then later claiming it was some sort of brilliant satire. Jon Swift is a satirist, this guy is just a small-minded moron.

Again, there is a comic to be written about Ubisoft marketing and the pathetic fanboys but this wasn't it. Of course he has the "right" to produce this stuff and going after SA is plain stupid. I'll defend his right to say it but the guy is clearly an idiot, and his interview couldn't have made that any more clear without accompanying photos of him drooling on himself.

He's a webcomic artist, a well-known and quite published one at that.  BUT HEY, YOU KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL OBVIOUSLY. :oh_i_see:


More than not likely.

Never heard of him up until this point.

You know, I was prepared to 'Not Care' about this until I saw that wee mini interview with the unbelievable asshole in question.

What a horrid wee man.  Lying little scumbag sack of shit.  Why can't he just be honest ?  There's no way in fucking hell ANYTHING to do with that cartoon was about Ubisoft and marketing.  Weasel.

So, they do the best they can, try to get the geeks to IMAGINE the blowjobs and hey, let's be cordial about it.

Can you please make your relationship with this chap known ?  You've been oddly defending him the whole thread in an unhealthy way...

Don't know why everyone threw up their arms about FragDolls either. Must have missed something.

And yes, I know a big part of Ubi's part in that is marketing -- but imho, it's marketing that's really fucking needed. The girls themselves seem alright though.

Trying to go for option 2 and failing means you took option 3.  Sending C&D's to Something Awful?  Either someone in Ubi PR or legal was so clueless about SA that they actually thought that would do something constructive, or the conspiracy theorists are right and UbiSoft was trying to milk some free publicity.

Furthermore, as far as Assassin's Creed is concerned - i would have loved to see interviews with the people that did the movement animations and motion for Altair, how the city mapping was done, etc... Now admittedly, i hadn't been following the game in any great deal of depth, but seeing nothing but JadeJadeJadeJadeJadeJade all over the place every time AC came up got a little obnoxious after a while.

Why not? It makes perfect sense when I view it as "this is how Ubisoft would like to market Ass Creed". I mean, look at the last panel, it says that right there!

Maybe you'd like to view him as a liar because because you don't like him and your feeble mind can't cope with admitting you were wrong and he, the asshole, was right all along. Just look at what Ubisoft is doing with their trilogy. If Ass Creed was Matrix the movie, Ass Creed 1 would end when Neo gets flushed out of the Matrix. Ubisoft can't very well base the marketing of their trilogy on a part that sucks so very hard nor can their game give blowjobs to every geek on the internet. So, they do the best they can, try to get the geeks to IMAGINE the blowjobs and hey, let's be cordial about it.

On a related note, does anyone else think putting the hottie developer in front of the publicity engine made the game sites throw softball reviews?

I've usually defended gaming sites to some extent. They can only get their news through industry cooperation, because there aren't really opportunities to get pre-release access to games and screenshots unless the developer gives the publication access to the games. The only way a site can reasonably have completely independent reviews is to give up their preview access.

I'm willing to tolerate that the restrictions on access to games under development means that the sites are obliged not to pass judgment on the incomplete games that they see. I think idiots who believe the undeserved praise in previews and the false Gamestop contention that you can't get a game the day it comes out unless you preorder generates revenue for some shitty games.

However, I generally think that the sites are aware that they lose their credibility and readership if they recommend bad games. So, in spite of a 1-10 rating system that rarely goes below 7, I think, once you understand how to read their reviews, It's really easy to tell which games are generating enthusiasm, particularly using a site like metacritic or gamerankings.

Assassin's Creed was a very uncommon situation, in which some sites rated in the 7s and some in the 9s. I rarely see mixed reviews for games. I kind of suspect some reviewers went easy on AC because they dig Jade.

What ?

You stay classy, internet.

Thing is, she's not a celebrity.

Just like Mr. British

Thanks for proving my point  :-)

Walk by a game store lately?

Thanks for proving my point... Again  :oh_i_see:



Seriously though.

I mean, come on. (http://www.jade-raymond.com/)

You don't have to be on TV or movies to be a celebrity. But this little derail is beside the point.

But a supporting point would be . Richard Garriott = Lord British. AKA: Pen name, or stage name.

I don't think you have to be in movies to be a celeb. But you probably have to be a bit more than that guy. I didn't even know who the fuck he was until I came to this little dark corner of the internet. And if he IS a celebrity, then no wonder some people make a big deal out of Jade Raymond.

And if he IS a celebrity, then no wonder some people make a big deal out of Jade Raymond

That site makes my skin crawl.

Her biggest break came at the 2003 Game Developer Award's Ceremony where she was one of the presenters. After the ceremony, Victor Lucas, the co-host and executive producer of the popular G4 TechTV's show called The Electric Playground came up to her and asked her to join the crew along with Tommy Tallarico, Julie Stoffer (http://Julie Stoffer) and Geoff Keighley. Although she never thought that I would be doing tv, she said it's a lot of fun and liked her experience very much. Because of this, Jade is now known to game fans throughout the world. As a result, she also gets to help out other game designers and producers by interviewing them for the show, which allows fans to put faces with names.

Not sure how one would avoid not knowing who he is. Especially now.

Even the name Miyamoto would get a bunch of blank stares from the majority of people, even gamers.

I was like that once. I just played games. A few years ago though, I stumbled upon MMO's, saw a lot of potential, but came to the conclusion that I really fucking hated them. I happened to find Waterthread after being linked to a writeup I agreed with, found that the rest of the place was pretty informed (and funny), and decided to stay and mostly talk about bullshit in General Discussion. I am not here because I like any of it, or because I was keepin dibs on "MrBritish" beforehand though.

I have the totally unquantified and sexist belief that almost all of the men writing ardent defenses of Jade portraying her as a victim have a secret fantasy. Namely, the fantasy of her e-mailing them saying how "right on" they are , including an invite to Montreal for dinner, followed by a movie at her pad and passionate anal about a quarter of the way into the film.

I asked my buddy the other day if he'd heard about all the Jade Raymond shit going on. He responded with "who?"

This is an avid gamer who would know the names Wright, Miyamoto, Garriott, etc. He's watched every demo and trailer for AC he could find, likely including the ones hosted by Jade. He had no fucking clue who she was.

The kitty in your avatar is adorable, Stray, but I have to ask:  Does it cry blood tears?

I asked my buddy the other day if he'd heard about all the Jade Raymond shit going on. He responded with "who?"

This is an avid gamer who would know the names Wright, Miyamoto, Garriott, etc. He's watched every demo and trailer for AC he could find, likely including the ones hosted by Jade. He had no fucking clue who she was.

Probably is her real name. She's half Chinese, and has green eyes. Her parents probably thought it'd be clever.

Probably is her real name. She's half Chinese, and has green eyes. Her parents probably thought it'd be clever.

I plan on having a son named Butch. Not sure how that'll work out.

I mean, come on. (http://www.jade-raymond.com/)

Oh, you are fucking kidding me here ?

Jesus Wept.

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1817/stokkerb1.jpg)

Why would any one make fun of someone because their name is Jade?  I could understand if it was Lardy Arse or Signe, but Jade?

It's a stretch to go "Jade is pretty, so Assassin's Creed got a good score". It's more like the reviewer runs through the game and thinks that it was a bit different and fun enough. Plus the whole use of a 10 point scale that sees a score of 7 as a poor result.

That is something that always bothered me.   I never understood what the point was in having a scale of something like 1 to 10 when the bottom half (or more) of the scale was pretty much ignored.  I figured lots of other folks probably felt the same way, so when we started doing "proper" reviews at TJG, I made the decision to use a scale of 1 to 100 that used EVERY point in the scale.  In other words, a score of 50 would indicate that a game was mediocre; with the positives and negatives kinda canceling each other out.

Whether due to people not being able to shake the school-grade system that they grew up with (where anything under 60 or 70 is a failure) or whatever, hardly anybody understood the concept of what we were doing.  I can't tell you how many times I had to explain how our scoring system worked.  And even then, most people still didn't get it and thought that we were totally slamming a game if we scored it anything under 70.  Hell, I even had some whiny letters from a couple of publishers who were disappointed that we "hated" their games and scored them in the high-60s / low-70s.

Oh yeah, and back when I first started the site as a solo effort, I used a Siskel & Ebert "Thumbs Up/Down" approach with my reviews that I thought was fairly groovy.  Unfortunately, it didn't go over too well, so I dropped it.  Seemed like everybody had to have a damn score attached.  (Nobody should have to actually read  the content in a review, right?)

I'm glad we eventually switched over to the more free-form "blog" format; dropping the typical review outline, scores and other such bullshit.  Sharing opinions on games isn't so much of a hassle anymore.

At my school, anything under 75 is a failure.  High standards for dumb people.

Wellllll..... I can think of one. Take a ride to a strip bar some time. Ii wasn't making fun, i was questioning if thats was her real name, or part of the PR package she created for herself. How many people have "Edited" there name to enter some form of public, celebrity space?

Why would any one make fun of someone because their name is Jade?  I could understand if it was Lardy Arse or Signe, but Jade?

A school grading scale is totally different, because it's an objective measure of how much you got right. If you get a 60% on a test it means you got it 60% right.

In game reviews a 6 out of 10 doesn't indicate anything, nothing is actually being measured. The game didn't do 6 things well and 4 poorly.

The academic system makes sense in that you measure how much they got right then compare it to the bar that says how much they *should* get right. In game reviews the scale is meaningless outside of whatever meaning the individual review site assigns.

In game reviews a 6 out of 10 doesn't indicate anything, nothing is actually being measured. The game didn't do 6 things well and 4 poorly.

Same for any rating of anything.  Say, wine, to pick an example from above.  Or food quality.  Or car quality. 

In her case, I can't see an issue.

In the case of a male called Jade, they'd get made fun of because it's a girl's name. The kind usually found on strippers or elderly jewish women. Like naming a boy "Ruby" Sue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M89c3hWx3RQ).

Which is why I compared to school grading, which is not a rating but an actual objective measure.

To me the best rating system is percentile based. If you get a 9/10 it means you are better than 90% of games. Simple.

Putting a % after the score doesn't magically make it non-subjective.

Kids that were in the "they get it" category were given credit for short-handing a problem.  Kids that the teacher wasn't sure about weren't.

I view Jade as a very skilled and creative producer, the success of Assassin's Creed leaves no doubt about that and the attention she received from the media is due to the anticipation, buzz and quality of the game. She's currently working on a new project but it's a little too early to share more about it.

When your first introduction to the gaming community is acting as a booth babe, what can you really expect?  She wasn't in a suit, she was in camo capris and a torn, ratty shirt showing off cleavage.

She started off doing bug duty at Sony, just like most developers do.

she'll get more game credits with her name and people might start to respect her for that.

Uhh, what?  Not trying to join the White Knight Defense Force for random internet girls, but what on earth makes you think she had much choice in the matter if Ubisoft's intentions were to use her like that.  "You're a babe and our target audience is sad and pathetic.  You work for us, this means you are going to be the public face for the game."  What is she going to do, quit?

That's not an introduction to the gaming community. Not even in the LEAST.

That being said, I don't know what the gaming community is. Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. She should present herself however she wants to whatever it is. Preferably as an even bigger whore. Because it doesn't matter.

That's not an introduction to the gaming community. Not even in the LEAST.

Gamers never forgive and never forget. Credits be damned, she's that hot chick with a stripper name.

Damn, yeah.. My bad. I somehow managed to forget that she complained (hello? thread title?).  :-)

When your first introduction to the gaming community is acting as a booth babe, what can you really expect?  She wasn't in a suit, she was in camo capris and a torn, ratty shirt showing off cleavage.

Negatory. Gamers as a whole are a large, seething mass of humanity. No attention span and little intelligence. Pockets of intelligence and/or bitterness like f13 or FoH are the exception rather then the norm.

Biography
Jade Raymond was born in Montreal Canada. She attended the Marianopolis private college in Downtown Montreal and after spending one whole summer playing video games it became pretty clear for her that she had not only to play them, but to make them.

As a teenager, she did night shifts working as a hospital switchboard operator. Part of her job involved calling "Code-Green" or "Code-Red" over the loud speaker and paging hospital staff when there were emergencies.

She later studied computer science at the McGill University in Montreal, and after graduating college with a degree in, Jade's first job was programming games at Sony. While at Sony, she founded the first Research and Development group within Sony Online. Her team was responsible for leveraging Sony IP across multiple platforms and ultimately building Sony Online's most trafficked offerings: the entire suite of Jeopardy games played by over 3,000 simultaneous users on a daily basis.

With a specialty in creating and designing online games, Jade began work at EA as a producer and went on to be the Producer behind one of EA's most popular online games to date, The Sims Online. She was directly responsible for all design and implementation of online game features and content for EA's highest revenue generating wholly owned property.

After seven years of working in New York and San Francisco she moved back to Montreal, her hometown, to make games at the world acclaimed Ubisoft Montreal Studio.

She is currently the producer of the highly anticipated title Assassins Creed, one of the most buzzed-about titles of 2007. As a video game producer, she is in charge of overseeing the development of the game regarding the creative and technical development of the game as well as maintaining schedules and budgets. She is also acting as a liaison between the development staff and the publisher or executive staff insuring the game will be delivered in time.

Her biggest break came at the 2003 Game Developer Award's Ceremony where she was one of the presenters. After the ceremony, Victor Lucas, the co-host and executive producer of the popular G4 TechTV's show called The Electric Playground came up to her and asked her to join the crew along with Tommy Tallarico, Julie Stoffer and Geoff Keighley. Although she never thought that I would be doing tv, she said it's a lot of fun and liked her experience very much. Because of this, Jade is now known to game fans throughout the world. As a result, she also gets to help out other game designers and producers by interviewing them for the show, which allows fans to put faces with names.

Once a person behind the scenes, Jade Raymond has advanced to a level many in the gaming community never see. Her appearances during gaming conventions such as E3 and X06 have made her popular amongst gaming fans. And while she is enjoying the fame that come with being on television, she still finds time to do what she loves most: Make video games.

Unlike many women working in the videogame industry, Jade Raymond is really a gamer, not a fake. She played Everquest 10 hours every day for three months when it came out. Her favorite video games of all time is Resident Evil 4, but liked alot Prince of Persia Sands of Time, Tekken 3, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, PaRappa the Rappa, Intelligent Cube and Incredible Crisis. She is currently playing Loco Roco on her PSP and has a weak spot for any game that involves monkeys, peculiar Japanese names or Zombies.

Raymond has a computer science degree from McGill University and her first job was programming games for Sony. A few years later, she moved into a producer role at EA, and she has since been producing games. Currently, Jade Raymond is the producer of Ubisoft's action-adventure game Assassin's Creed.

Not a Fake! She fo' reals!

I'm amazed at the amount of loathing people can throw at someone for the dual crimes of being hot and somewhat competent.

Can't we all bash Cliffy B for a while? He's most famous for his "blue steel."

Can't we all bash Cliffy B for a while? He's most famous for his "blue steel."

Link to that video, please. Bonus points if the devs on either side of her are wearing suits while she isn't.

mostly flawless.  wikipedia vandalism makes it wonky sometime

Remember ladies, you are only allowed to be successful OR attractive.  Know your place.

I think it's more about Jade being pimped out by Ubi because she is attractive.

I think it's more about Jade being pimped out by Ubi because she is attractive.

Fuck Jade.  If she leaves me alone, I'll leave her alone. 

She's promoting her company's product, something people in this or similar roles routinely do.  The only difference is in being both attractive and female.

Yeah, its not like they put her before the team or anything. Making her stand out.[/url]

She's promoting her company's product, something people in this or similar roles routinely do.  The only difference is in being both attractive and female.

And in a revealing outfit.  When's the last time we saw Raph or Lum do that?

(http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060328/jade_raymond.gif)

And in a revealing outfit.  When's the last time we saw Raph or Lum do that?

Remember ladies, you are only allowed to be successful OR attractive.  Know your place.

Probably the last time we saw them wearing casual women's fashion.  Also, that's hardly revealing.

(http://www.hd.chalmers.se/~thriff/dump/cockmongler.png)

It's funny how she's victimized for being somewhat pretty and showing it.
f the way they dressed themselves.

So this chick can't take a pale shadow of the nonsensical nerd rage that permeates the web? Should we find her a nice crib and bottle while the Manfolk make games out of logs and steel?

Very few insults levelled at male game designers are sexual in nature.

So it's okay to insult people as much as you like but only if sex is in no way involved?

Any there any other taboo subjects the internet should be made aware of?

Also, it's not a 'pale shadow' when it can dog you for the rest of your career in the game industry or even if someone just happens to Google your name for some reason.

It's funny how she's victimized for being somewhat pretty and showing it.

Instead of you know, blaming the pathetic horny motherfuckers who fall for something like that. I especially like how people here actually believe that she had it coming, that the pathetic disgusting little comic is somehow justified because she "is pimping herself out".

The truth is that no one of you should care even if she'd go naked.

Maybe in the make believe Star Trek Federation future where no one uses money and people are perfect there will be no nerd cumshot comics about female game devs and the retarted hubub surrounding them.

But here we are still talking about it.

I'd like to note here that if not for the retarded hubbub that was largely the result of people feeling they had to "defend" Jade and sternly admonish all those gamers that are keeping women out of the industry, most of us would never have seen the comic, and "the community" at large would have forgotten about it already.  But here we are still talking about it.

If all you Internet White Knights had treated it the same way we generally treat comics about game developers fucking their dogs or what have you, which is to say either "heh" or "eh" as taste dictates and move on, then it would truly not be any different.  But no, women are weak and fragile and need to be protected from those scary adolescent boys on the SA forums, right?

Oh, and stop playing White Knight to forum shits.  I'm sure they don't need to be protected form scary f13 posters.