f13.net

Every single fucking time, on every server I've played in so far.

I saw a server go from 32 people with a qeue to get in for an hour plus on 2fort+gp+db, to almost empty in 2 rounds of granary, and when it hits well it clears out.

I'm not saying we need to take them both out of the rotation, but at least make it so aren't back to fucking back, it's the same goddamn map anyway, a little variety would be nice.

Also, fuck pyros, fucking goddamned sons of bitches and their fire.  And scouts, fuck them too, with their little bats and their shotguns and sideways jumping, fuck them and fuck you if you play one.

I leave the server when Well hits also. Sometimes 2Fort as well. >_>

Well is linear and unimaginative.  It's 90% running and 10% dying. 

I've played custom maps that make me wonder how Well made it into the final product.

Odd.  I think Well is solid and I haven't noticed people leaving in it.  I think it's better than Granary by a long shot.

I just hate 2fort and Hydro.  Those maps are insta-leave for me on any server.

Interesting.

I love Hydro.

I really think it should be

F13.net's Ivory Tower Dustbowl 24/7

Granary is crap.

Well is decent.

2fort is meh.



Anyone else try the custom map, Wolf? I had a good time with it the other day...was a nice fragfest map, some of those tunnels get pretty bloody.

Granary favors people with good FPS skills. That 3rd point on either side (the one before the last) is just awesome. To defend and go on offense on.

I keep hearing this, my FPS skills are fine. I just don't like the map. Most of the 5 cap ones are meh to me. Personal preference I guess. I'm still not sure how Granary requires more FPS skills than any other map (is it the extra scouts? : ), not really that worried about it and will go with the flow as people seem to agree that it does.

Anyways, have ya tried Wolf? Any opinions on it?

Yeah, Dustbowl is the best.

But I like Well, too.  (Did you know that 30 heavys can stop the train?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht5RF5cd2wA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht5RF5cd2wA))

Dustbowl is a terrible map on servers were people dont use voice and insist on sucking and doing dumb shit like running 4+ spy/snipers  and just generally sucking dick.

24/7 servers are lame.

The map w/ the satellite dish is good, I don't know why we don't have that on the f13 server (I dont think?) we should drop Well and put that on IMO.  There are good fights to be had on that map and its pretty fun when the teams are good, if they aren't it goes really fucking fast.

Granary > Well because the 4th cap points on Well are fucking annoying as balls while the 4th points on granary are the awesome.  They are the same map though, also 5th cap point on well is a fucking piece of shit compared to granary because most of the time you can roll it on granary where well is much easier to just turtle the fuck out of it.

2fort isn't that bad, but really I can't fucking fathom how there isn't a better CTF offering.  Also I was never a big TFC player or any HL mod except a couple years of CS (Quake2 fan here) but wtf is up with you can cap even when you don't have your flag?  That's fucking stupid tbh, although I guess the logic is you can't return a dropped flag instantly to base...

We should combine Disco Party and Ivory Tower into one server and bump it up to 32 people.  I could then change the structure of the downloadable files so you don't have to 'download' them everytime, and they'd actually work too.  We'd have music and fun times.  I could also get the decals to work too, and we could get some of the newer custom maps.

Sounds like a lot fo work.  :oh_i_see:

I like Ookii's idea. Something other than normal maps once and awhile would make for good loving. Just remove lazy_town and the one that's so fucking laggy it hurts (that resembles lazy town.)

Edit: Change the respawn times! 20 second respawns motherfuck my motherfucking.

Add Warpath and Castle.

I love those. :heart:

Anything else?  Crits off?

I can also change the % so their chance of hitting are higher, I can even change it to 100%!

I would be pretty happy with no crits, even if I like playing rocketman and demo and love their crit awesomeness.

20 second respawns feel really fair to me:  When I get a kill, it helps the team.  When I get killed, that's just enough time to take a drink, tab through my teammates, consider changing classes, decide to stay a heavy, and get back in.

Crits also feel good to me. 

I've read through to figure out why you guys are down on pyros.  They seem pretty average to me.  Any hints?

Does 'no crits' make snipers pretty useless?  Or are headshots exempt?  That drastically changes my view on whether it would be a good idea or not.

32 people is too many.

Playing mach with 32 would be truly vomitous.

By the way, since everyone likes dustbowl and gravelpit (I hope)...maybe we should double them in the rotation.

dust->granary->gravel->well->dust->gravel->crapfort?

Doesn't affect snipers, their headshots are calculated seperately.

You have to factor in the map. 2Fort is fine with long spawns because inherently the opponent has to run back before they can cap again. Them being able to cap during respawn time? Not likely. CPs on the other hand are another beast. Having 20-25 second respawns is ridiculous. I'm not looking to get one of those 2 second respawn servers. 10-12 is reasonable to me, but often times a long respawn can fuck an otherwise good map.

If I really wanted to sit around watching other people play while enduring a stupid long respawn time, I'd play CS:S.

Backstabs should be unaffected as well.

I leave servers when Hydro rotates in also. And Well. And sometimes 2Fort. I'd rather play lazytown than any of those.

True, 2fort is the worst.  If I kill I guy to get in, I shouldn't have to kill him twice more to get out.

And you bring up a good point that reducing respawn affects the balance on attack/defend maps.  Since the defenders usually have less travel time, lower respawn is an advantage for them.

The 20 second timers on certain Dustbowl levels are doom.  The initial push takes the first cap and then before people respawn, it's already too late.  The 20 sec timer, though, is the only thing that makes the last map beatable.  I'm indifferent to this, although I hear people whining about it on certain maps.

And yah, map cycle  :roll:, I've been saying this for weeks.  We don't necessarily need to remove certain maps, just try and break up the monotony of having the 2 5caps back to back mixed in with 2fort, which depending on the team makeup, can really suck.  I'm not sure about Wolf, that map seems to be made by a sniper.  Would be great if he cut down on the dead area in the map by about 50%. 

Heh, as for FPS skills and Granary.  It's just that better scouts make a difference there.  People that play scouts well tend to have decent FPS skills, although I'm sure there are some people with good FPS skills that don't play scout well.  Granary is probably my least favorite map, but it can still occasionally be a good time.  2fort if I'm tired is an automatic leave though.  The quality of play is usually consistantly bad.

I like crits. Especially when I charge onto a point filled with bad guys as a pyro and get spammed by crit messages. Pure luv.

As an aside- I played some Bf2 over the weekend and pwned, so it is just TF2 that I suck total ass at, not all FPS. Whew.

I vote against messing with crit percentages and respawn timers.  That way lies madness.

Yes. Madness!  (But what about melee-only overtime?  That's awesome.  The first time I ever got into one of those, I couldn't fight because I was laughing so hard.)

I vote 400 times for this.

We could do that with Beetle's Mod but I find there is no point to it.  Eventually everyone will figure out they should just be heavys.

You mean spies.

How can you be so bad and so good at the game at the same time?

Hear that? That's the sound of us NEVER doing Melee only mode after rounds.

Actually, you didn't hear a damn thing.

Because we're all spies.

What about Melee-only Sudden Death? Since it's a write off half the time anyway with stupid Engis.

He meant sudden death. And that's what I meant. It's only 2 minutes. So killing someone means something. God that would be awesome.

But then, Ookii's sense of fun has been in the toilet since 1985.

I mean how many times do we even hit sudden death on the f13 server? once? maybe twice? every 3 hours?

I do see our servers being empty way too often, I'm not sure what empties them though.

1.  Maps:
-I like the Satellite map, I have no idea what its called but I have a feeling it might be hydro, please to be explaining the hatred for this one?
-Doubling Dustbowl hurts my soul but do it for the public + all you fuckers that enjoy that map.  Personally I find the ABC cap map to be BY FAR the most tactically interesting and engaging map in the game FAR better then Dustbowl for both attackers and defenders but I understand I'm minority on that.
-Fucking toss one of the 5 cap maps or make the server randomly pick between them when a 5 cap comes into the rotation or something.  Basically you should see all maps (and dustbowl twice) before you play two 5 caps.  They are fun as a break to just fps skill to victory.  Nerf is totally right though, having them fall within 2 maps of each other fucking kills otherwise good games.
-Why do I have to download shit over and over?  Like the cornholio.wav and various other shit I have to pickup EVERY TIME I join some of my fav servers?
-I am in favor of putting 1 or 2 of the best custom maps in, esp if one is CTF and we could do to 2fort what we want to do to the 5cappers.


2. Spawn Times:
Really this is a dangerous game, what works for one map will not for others and what seems like a great idea for one play session will find a way to suck balls for the next.  I agree with the madness comments.

3. Crits:
Do these bother people so much?  I only really notice when I get rocket crit'd and I've been playing soldier a ton recently and it hardly seems like a big deal at all to me.

4. Sudden Death:
There has to be something better to end the 5-cap maps...  Really its a huge flaw of the entire gametype.

5.  Scouts:
I vote the server doesn't let people who ping over 50 play as scout, because laggy scouts are fucking bullshit.

6.  I wanted to have a sixth point, but I dont.  Failure is me.

6a.  Actually I thought of one, nerf Fruitfucker because he fucking is evil w/ the rifle and I hate being sniped...  bastage.

I'll address the crit issues.

It's handicapping. It's a the result of Harrison Bergeron Syndrome. They basically made it so that nobody sucks ALL of the time.

That shit doesn't belong in a competitive FPS.

The thing is, I agree with the conspiracy theorists who say that you get more crits when your on a killing spree run already.  I rarely feel like some dipshit noob just crit'd me outta the blue after missing w/ 3 of 4 rockets while I was adjusting my headset or whatever scenario it is you people imagine where grave injustices occurred.

If they were off, who cares, but really it does nothing but add a little bit of unpredictability to the game which isn't such a bad thing.  It hardly is The Great Equaliser wherein nobody sucks any more.  Because 4 serious, I suck 1/4th of the time pretty hard and when I'm on my game (read: the competition is less good or my team is owning anyways  :wink: ) I'm usually solid, getting my k:d to around 2:1 and my k/a : d to 3 or 4 to 1.  While not even sort of playing for points, I always play to get the wins.

Now I just need to start branching out into other classes, also I can prove you can suck at pyro.  When I was str8 bad @ TF2 I was best w/ Pyro now I'm 100 times more effective w/ Soldier which means I really need to start playing Pyro more because owning w/ them is much more satisfying, something about the movement speed and the whole setting things on fire I think.

***

Back to crits for a second, I'm starting to wonder if all the times I just get blown to shit by one demofags spammed bs was a crit.  In which case fuck those bitchcakes.  I hate demos, either they are worthless whores who only get lucky kills or they are super pro and make everyone else look absolutely lowly.

It's not looking like 32 players is working on Linux currently anyway, so oh well.

EDIT: Only one guy is attempting it and he doesn't know what he's doing, maybe one of our smarter programmers might want to take a shot at it.

My (maybe way wrong) theory is seed players:  You need regulars willing to get on an empty server and play 2 on 2 a while to get the ball rolling. 

Hm, I'm going to test that out... 

If you get Ookie or WAP to MSN me, I don't mind coming on to help fill it up.

Or you can just add me yourself: nixel84@gmail.com

Heh.  I've hit my stride with the demo.  I'm not great at twitch games, so the 'plan ahead' nature of the demo is good for me.  This morning, I lured the same guy into the same trap three times in a row and the only trick was placing a sticky or eight around a corner he couldn't see.  Yes, come to the demo. 

And for murdering a medic / heavy team trying to cap while invul'd, there is no cure like a demo. 

Patience and stickies are fun.

I vote no to the 32 man server, in fact, not just no, but fuck no.

All the 32man matches I've played end up turning into stalemates and sudden death, and if they're all going to end up that way, lets just make it perma-sudden death and call it Counter-Team Strike Fortess 2 : Identity Crisis with bats!

Altho, on a lighter note, it does make demo sooo much fun, theres just so many bodies, you're bound to hit SOMETHING flinging nades!

And then lets turn on FF and watch the real fun begin :p

I've been pushing for FF for weeks now, it'll be sooo  :awesome_for_real:

FF off is just madness. Spies rule, pyros and demos team kill.

I love the idea of FF. I hate the pyro/demo spam that makes being a spy suck.

Plus, watching a ton of FF spam on the first run of it being turned on will be :awesome_for_real:

Servers that play Friendly Fire get raped by spies. Just utterly and completely raped.

Yeah but it would be fun to turn it on just some random round without telling anyone :p    It's probably a good thing I don't have admin powers. 

They took away all my fun admin powers after I went on a drugging spree.

I even promised Ooki to only drug dannyb, but still no dice  :heartbreak:

From what I understand in Beta with FF on Pyro's flame didn't harm teammates.

Can we tinker with it then? It'd be a nice change.

I played on an FF server during beta.  By accident.

It was ASS.

test 1.  joining Empty Server.  8:10 PM 11/12/07 map is 2fort and empty.

8:30 Failure. One guy joined, but then quit after I explained the theory, saying he'd "be back later"  Next test, I'll try with four people.

Four people usually works. A couple days ago I joined Bhodi and 2 other people on Ivory and it kick started the server.

Ookii and I were the only ones on the Disco server, and there was a small crowd there after a few minutes. It grows as long as people continue joining, and people don't leave. Having an admin around would help to skip maps (on Disco especially).

Dunno what happened to Ookii but there were still 10 people on the server just 5 mins ago, when my ping went haywire.

Heroes > TF2.

Yeah I was fucking around with sounds and Tao joined, 30 minutes later there were 19 people, now it's completely full.

Looks like you only need two people around prime time to get things going, I think we all have been distracted by other feats of awesome (CoD 4), I mean who wants to sit around in a server for 20 minutes to get people to join?

Disco Party always had it's own equilibrium though, not sure if we want the kind of riff raff that plays Disco Party to hang around Ivory Tower (if we put in custom maps).

The shitty people end up leaving Ivory Tower pretty quickly, getting raped over and over again isn't much fun.

Unless by riff raff you mean blacks and jews, in which case I totally agree with you, it's the Ivory Tower, and I don't think anyone wants those kind of people around.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, *ahem*, being a black jew myself.

One oddity: At 6 the map on Ivory Tower was 2fort, so I decided to wait for a fun map.  But it never changed.  Then at 8 when I decided to jump on anyway, it immediately switched.  It's as though it needs somebody on to trigger the map change.

Back on the crit thing, the only reason I find its a good thing is it can be a stalemate breaker. There have been times as a heavy (with medic of course) where the crit magic actually busted a good defense. Same with soldier as well.

I know where you are coming from schild, but I think they have their place.

Crits should never be removed, ever.    And I'm not just saying it cause I have more time played with a Soldier then any 2 other classes put together  :grin:

Meh, I've got 30+ hours on soldier, and even I would like to see crits go away.  While it can be fun when you land a crit and instapop someone, it isn't as satisfying as completely raping their face.

I think the game would be a hell of a lot more fun without crits, I just dont like random shit in games of skill.  Would you play blackjack if jokers were in play and meant an instant win at the time they were dealt?  Same fucking thing.

That example illustrates the opposite point.

There is a huge random factor in Blackjack, and you don't have to add jokers into the deck to experience it.

Blackjack is both a game of skill and luck.

It is the combination of the two that makes it, and so many other games, entertaining.

Chess is the example you were looking for, and we aren't exactly lining up to play Chessmaster 9000, are we?

I illustrated exactly the point I wanted to, there is always going to be luck in any fps, but the higher your skill level the less it becomes a factor.  However, having random instant wins randomly thrown in the deck eliminates much of that edge that having skill would give you.

Theres a reason casinos kick people who count cards the fuck out, and absolutely loves those goddamn 174 deck shoes.

That makes more sense.

It's certainly not an 'instant win' - I've landed many a crit that did not kill.

Much less put me on top of the points list and end the game.

Can you tell that I'm in the "No-FF, leave crits alone, yes I'm a carebear" camp?

Crit rocket into a cluster of ANYTHING not Heavies, is instant win.

I vote for not messing with crits....sure, I bitch a ton about crit rockets/bombs....but it's nice when I get a timely crit against an armored foe while sniping.

I also vote against 32-person servers....that would be nuts. I would place the upper limit at 14/side.


I've done it before. It was not a killspree. They may have been overhealed though.

If you can't dodge a rocket, you deserve to eat it and die a critical death.

Ditto.

Also, no fucking with spawn timers.  I'm continually amazed at how people will complain about stalemates and then in the same breath say that defenders should be able to respawn instantly.

Spawntimes are fine as they are, and noone is lobbying for 24/7 FF, just one night lets fuck with it.

Crits, on the otherhand, can fuck off and die in a fire.

The only change mentioned here that I support is melee-only sudden death.  And a heavy can get raped by a skilled scout at melee, or any of the faster classes.

Yes to criticals, Yes to occasional FF (let the jr admins turn it off and on!), Yes to custom maps, Yes to melee-only sudden death. It's a game. If people want to 'game' the system by switching to heavies, who cares? It's still funny.

Let's go step by step in terms of feasibility!


Sure, nothing to be done!


Har har no.


Definite yes!


How are your programming skills?


Eh it's a moot point anyway unless you can program/script for Source MetaMod.

You can't steal the code out of that other mod program, or maybe even install it? I've seen some servers that have it...

We should be able to turn FF on/off and alltalk on/off :)

Kind of doesn't work like that, we have mani, melee only sudden death is Beetle's Mod.


To the SUPER SEKRET FORUM you should post this, it's only a matter for TF2 Admins.

I love crit rockets and crit stickies.

Except for when I'm in a rush and try to superjump off of one.

(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9412/dodginggf2.jpg)