f13.net

I was just curious if anybody had any suggestions on what are some good table top war gaming rulesets.  I don't really play (though I've always wanted to try), and for fun, I downloaded copies of the warhammer fantasy/40k stuff just to read though (I actually like the lore for 40k alot.  Was alot deeper than I suspected it would be).  Seems decent, though I hear people bitch about it sometimes as being dumbed down.  Anyways, I'm just sort of interested in the different rule sets, and since I know some people here are into the hobby, was wondering if they could throw some suggestions out.  Fantasy, historical, sci-fi, modern warfare, doesn't really matter.  Or what scale of models for that matter.  Even if I don't ever end up playing it, I oddly still derive glee from reading rule manuals for complex games.....

Axis & Allies but it's a board game not a table top. I don't know that the ruleset is all that complex but there are a lot of different strategies out there (plus custom rules).

If you're looking for a modern-conspiracies set of books, something in the vein of the X-Files, I heartily suggest the first edition of Conspiracy X. It has its own beautifully elegant 2d6 system (which, as you get deeper into it, gets tangled into a huge web of special-case rules) as well as some excellent writing.

It should be noted that Jack Emmert, a.k.a. The Statesman, had a hand in writing a couple of the GM supplements. If you're going to play, though, I strongly recommend not reading those, even if some of them are quite fantastic. I found the game a lot more fun before I went GM and peered behind the curtain.

The most crucial book to pick up would be Sub Rosa, then the Main Book, then Forsaken Rites, then Shadows of the Mind. The Aegis Handbook is more or less rendered superfluous by the combination of Sub Rosa and the Main Book. The Unseen Hand is an excellent supplement for an alternate take on the structure of the game, as it details the primary opponent organization for the "normal" game, along with rules for allowing players to play it.

The GM supplements I recommend are Exodus and Cryptozoology. Atlantis Rising and Nemesis are okay, but not superbly written. Nemesis, in particular, is a bit messy. The adventure supplements are mostly fluff, althoug Psi Wars is good for the supplemental fear system and range tables, while Synergy has excellent rules for drugs and poisons. Mokele is impossible to find and mostly crap.

The second edition they rewrote in the utterly-crap Unisystem, which I refuse to patronize with further words. I have no idea how good the new campaign or background material is, either.

Look into Warmachine/Hordes as well, both by Privateer Press. Sort of steampunkish fantasy, magic with guns and so on.

I'm a fan of Warmaster Ancients by GW. Not only is it a good rule set, but you can use any 10mm figures and you can buy an army for less than a mortgage (unlike most other mini games).

The only one I've ever gotten into is Dream Pod 9's (http://www.dp9.com/) giant robot stuff (Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles).  It's pretty streamlined, but I get a kick out of it.  Plus, Jovian Chronicles has one of the only relatively realistic space combat physics rule sets I've ever seen (or at least it did, the demo game on their site looks different, and I haven't bought the new edition, so maybe they changed it).  Tends to be lethal to new players who aren't paying attention.  They do things like opening up their engines all the way to chase after some distant enemy, and then realizing once they get there that they don't have enough fuel to stop moving.  Slamming into the side of an enemy capital ship at 200 meters/sec.  Good times.

For grand tactical scale historical stuff (pre-1500 AD), I'd suggest DBM (De Bellis Multitudinus). I play it in 15mm. The co-authors have recently split, however, and Phil Barker has written and published a new set called DBMM. There's a current debate over whether to drop DBM and switch to DBMM or stick with DBM on the tournament scene. The rules are very obtuse, because the writers were both technical manual writers, but once you get them down, they are a lot of fun.

Flames of War is a pretty fun WW2 ruleset. It's a game, however, not a sim. If you can get past that, it's great fun. Also it's very easy to understand if you've ever played games like WH40k or Blood Bowl.

For a tabletop boardgame, I highly recommend Blood Bowl. The rules are I think still fully downloadable, and you can easily make up some teams from Plastic Warhammer FB/40k regiments. You'd have to make your own board, though.

Skirmish-level, there's also Necromunda, which was and has always been great fun (DLable rules, too). Mordheim is it's fantasy-setting little brother, but I never liked it as much.

Actually there are miniatures rules in this franchise now:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/aa/welcome

Though for WWII rules, I would prefer to play this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Command-Decision-World-War-2-Miniature-Rules-GDW-Shrink_W0QQitemZ220162604310QQihZ012QQcategoryZ2537QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Though that is partly because I'm a Chadwick fanboy. I used to play these SF rules:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Striker-GDW-Traveller-Miniatures-1981-OOP-with-figures_W0QQitemZ260174135412QQihZ016QQcategoryZ2558QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Its not miniatures, but the wargame Squad Leader is well worth getting from ebay.  One of the best wargames ever.  Its sequel is considered superior, but its also for braniacs with a fetish about lots of rules and endless acronyms. 

Also OOP but KICK ASS is Ogre/GEV, another hex n chit wargame, though MUCH lighter than Squad Leader.  Its got a set of 1/285th scale miniatures rules too.  Which are also OOP though the minis aren't.  (Just bought a ton of em this week.)

Not OOP and rather popular is Battletech, or as it is currently known, Classic Battletech.  Giant Robots that aren't anime styled but more like walking tanks that lord over actual tanks and infantry.  Games can look like this:

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2155/1592760983_855b7e7010_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2135/1592761003_707d605782_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/1592761013_a112d4d1bf_o.jpg)

I'm using Heroscape terrain for that, which is a nice fun rules light wargame that uses the old Heroquest combat mechanics.  (Skulls vs Shields opposed die rolls.)

If you like spaceships, Federation Commander utterly rocks.  Its streamlined and improved Starfleet Battles.  Star Trek if Roddenberry's utopian vision was ignored for endless war between a half dozen or more alien races and collectives.

40K is hugely popular, but its stupid expensive and the ruleset is meh at best.  Fantasy is less popular, requires more miniatures, but has a much better set of rules.

GW's sub games of Necromunda and Blood Bowl are utterly fantastic though and don't need a whole lot.  Lord of the Rings is pretty good too.  The current version of Epic is well regarded, though the old Epic ruleset is a thing of pure awesome.  Luckily, Netepic keeps it alive.

Rackham's AT 43 is glorious.  GW level prices, but for NICELY PREPAINTED miniatures.  And a better ruleset.  Plus its got Zen Powered Armored Gorillas, Korean War styled space Russians & UN forces and a cool nanotech Transhumanist group as playable factions.

Now, some links:
AT 43:  http://www.confrontation.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=57&Itemid=253&lang=en
Federation Commander: http://www.federationcommander.com/
Ogre: http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/
LoTR: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/lotr/default.htm
Blood Bowl: http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/default.asp
Necromunda: http://www.specialist-games.com/necromunda/default.asp
Netepic: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/netepic/messages/1?l=1
Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader: http://www.multimanpublishing.com/ASL/asl.php
Classic Battletech: http://www.classicbattletech.com/

Hope this helps a bit!

Wow, thanks everybody!  Lots of good info so far.  One of the reasons I posted this is that I stopped by a pretty awesome gaming store while walking around Berkeley the other day, and saw just a shit ton of wargaming board game things (like, shelves and shelves of box's) as well as all sorts of random rule books for table top, covering just about everything.  Made me curious as to what was actually interesting out of all that, since I do have a big interest in strategy games.  If anything, like I said, I enjoy at least seeing how people implement rules.  The info is greatly appreciated.

Funny you should mention AT 43 Jain, that was one box that really stood out to me at the store, and piqued my curiosity enough to prompt me to write this post.  Looked pretty cool, but I obviously have no way of knowing if its garbage or not.

Was it GoB?  We used to make pilgrimages to that place when I lived out in the Bay Area.

Honestly you could most likely swing by there and ask the employees who could give you a demonstration of a few of the games.  A lot of stores have organized game nights and I know back when I played Warmachine / Hordes regularly I gave a couple demos to people who just wandered in interested.

If by GoB you mean Games of Berkeley, then yes.

AT-43 and the latest incarnation of Confrontation are currently the the best in their genre as far as evolved and ... well, not crappy game mechanics. The full rules for both are downloadable as PDFs here (AT-43) (http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=45&Itemid=244) and an online rulebook here (Confrontation)  (http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=1&Itemid=91). Tabletop gaming is one of the true real passions in my life and I've been doing it for 30 years now. For getting started I'd recommend just hanging out in the shop and seeing what people play on the days you'd have free to play and deciding if you'd enjoy it or not. Asking for a demo is also a great idea, most shops will eagerly do it knowing that if you like the game you'll drop an average of $200 for an army. I'll post a giant rundown of the different popular rulesets and their pros/cons later tonight.

If anyone at the shop you go to plays it, I'd strongly reccommend Infinity - especially if you like Masamune Shirow style stuff. The unique style of figures aside, it is currently the absolute best sci-fi/ranged combat miniatures game out.

Classic Battletech all the way.