f13.net

... We can turn this into a general sports forum?  I feel like I need to join three fantasy leagues if I want to talk about Sunday's football games.   :-P

Just post to the General forum. That's where the college football thread is.

Best. Thread. EVAR!

I have nothing to say other than that any haters should just start sucking Dallas dick right now. You'll probably bandwagon and convert anyways, but I think it'd be best if you just get it over with early.  :-)

Don't get too excited just yet.  The Rams are absolutely horrible right now.

/sad Rams fan

I like Tony Romo -- he reminds me a bit of Steve Young.

Actually, I'm not trying to be too hard on the Rams. I don't dislike them! I'm just thrilled that Dallas is actually winning games again. And yeah Romo is cool. A good QB (that wasn't a geezer) was a long time coming. This is going to be an awesome year for Witten too.

If he doesn't get hurt. Poor guy is taking a pounding catching balls over the middle.

(http://dwil.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/romo.jpg)


 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Romo has been studly this year. I took him reluctantly in one of my pay leagues, and he has me in first place by a decent margin.


Also- gonna change the title to this thread and move it to GD so we have an NFL thread. GO SEAHAWKS!

Romo - Amazing comeback after the disaster in the playoffs, and a fantasy God.
TO - Hate his style, love the 3 TDs and 350+ yards in 4 games.
Cowboys - 4-0, 1st in the East, and 2nd ranked in Total Offense behind the Pats and AHEAD of the Colts.

Next week the Cowboys play a 1-3 Bills team that should be another solid win if they play smart and minimize turnovers. The last time this team went 4-0 was back in 1995 when the Cowboys rolled over everyone in the playoffs to a Super Bowl XXX win. All the Dallas fans are hoping for the same thing this year.

I had hopes for my 49ers but the o line let a DT get through untouched to our QB who then proceeded to jump on his back and separate his throwing shoulder. :cry:

Cardinals are 2-2.  HAH.  The whole Leinart-Warner experiment may be helpful for winning a few games, but it may do nothing but leave Leinart a bit iffy mentally for when Warner, you know, turns 50 and goes to live the rest of his life with his horrid wife.  Have to take off the training wheels at some time or start planning your next failed QB experiment.  Maybe I'm just dreading the day when we let Warner start again and he loses some games while putting up deceptively good numbers. 

The NFL was unkind to me this week.  I lost at everything. This league is a complete mystery this year outside of a handful of teams.

I hate the Cowboys. I continue to wish for Terrell Owens to take a helmet to the knee, shattering his facade and removing him from my sports world forever.

That Rams team is fucking awful. PUTRID. I think the Saints could beat them right now. I wouldn't quite get too excited about them, as look who they've beaten.

The Giants in Game 1: That was before the Giants learned how to rush the passer or play any kind of coverage. The Giants defense is FUCKING AWFUL. They have gotten better since their first two games, but really, they aren't that great. They beat the piss out of McNabb last night, but McNabb looked like he was Drew Bledsoe, completely unable to scramble. Dallas STILL gave up 35 points to the Giants, and again, they aren't that good.

The Dolphins in Game 2: The Fins can't beat anybody. Their defense is old, slow and incompetent against the pass, and their offense is just as bad. They lost the RAIDERS badly, for fuck's sake.

The Bears in Game 3: This would have been their toughest test, if the Bears were worth a shit. They aren't. Their defense is still good, but not nearly good enough to keep them in most games. Their offesne under Grossman... it's REX GROSSMAN. While still impressive that they put up over 30 points, it's the REX GROSSMAN BEARS.

The Rams in Game 4: The Rams can't stop ANYBODY. Bulger is playing with broken ribs, and is bad and Jackson was out. This team is bad bad bad bad bad.

Not one team they've played is any good. Among the 4-0 teams, I would consider Dallas 3rd behind the Colts and the Pats (Well, the Pats aren't 4-0 yet, but really they will be after tonight), and only ahead of Green Bay because the Packers have no running game yet. But Dallas's defense is pretty mediocre, and I think a good team is going to ram it down their throats. Probably in Week 6. But looking at their schedule, I'm not sure I see many other teams challenging them. They have a soft schedule mainly because their division is so weak.

Who put the fucking gris-gris on the Saints?

I liked the part where we were winning and people said "New Orleans" and "Superbowl" in the same sentence without using some form of negative.

But, yes, Rams suck.

I think it is all the killer mold that FEMA is growing in the city that is killing the Saints.

Is it sad that as a Bears fan I've pretty much reached the point of watching the games for highlights of a line backer's tackles and for punt returns? Oh well, as long as we stay ahead of the fins.

What? I mean I understand hating the Cowboys, but calling the schedule soft because of a bad start for two teams in the division isn't really fair. I mean look at the freaking Colts! They play in a division with Jacksonville, Tennessee, and Houston. Can you find me a team there that's head and shoulders better than the East? I can't. The Jags and Titans are 29th and 23rd in scoring. The Bears score more points than they do. Houston lost to the Falcons. Did you hear that right? Yeah, those Falcons. However, I can almost guarantee that the Eagles will turn things around and give the Cowboys a run for their money. They always do. They went 6-2 after the halfway point last year.

The Cowboys are the real deal this year, hate them or not. I think they will probably lose 3-4 games, most likely one to the Pats in Week 6, and they will earn the top spot in the NFC.

God damn that game was hard to watch.  Bring back the Kyle Orton era!

The Cowboys schedule IS soft. The Eagles are in no way a convincing team. Their special teams are fucking atrocious and have already lost them one game. McNabb wasn't just ordinary last night, he was fucking awful. Their defense, while good, isn't going to do any better job stopping the Cowboys than they did against the Giants.

The Giants team is terrible. They dropped more balls last night than a hooker with Parkinson's. Had McNabb been anything like his former self, he'd have been sacked about 1/4 as much as he was, and if the Eagles had any good receivers, it would have been a lot closer.

Washington is similarly unconvincing to me. They barely beat Miami (shit team), their offense took a half off against the Giants and lost, and they beat the Eagles with Westbrook(see above). The Skins are the only team in the division who will give them trouble.

The Jets, Detroit and Minnesota are all gimme games. Detroit is probably the one they will lose. The Carolina game is a tossup, but the Panthers are in no way a consistently good team right now, and are even worse with Carr under center. Green Bay and New England are the only good teams I see left on their schedule, and I see the Green Bay game being a shootout. So out of 16 games, I see what 5 games as potentially tough for the Boys (2 against Washington, the Bears, Pats and Packers) and the rest being games that a good team should win without question. It may not have LOOKED like a soft schedule when they were making the fixtures, but it's turned out that way with the Eagles being such a disappointment.

EDIT: As for the Colts, their division is on the rise. The Jags have a strong D, the Texans are certainly not pushovers like last year and the Titans have Vince Young, who makes a difference even when he shouldn't. Of course, looking at the Colts' schedule now, their schedule looks about as soft as the Cowboys, only with better defensive divisional competition.

Lol, great... Basically the whole league sucks and the Boys are getting a free ride. Gotcha.  :roll:

Welcome to the NFC!

GO PACKERS! Hehe life in Green Bay is so much more livable if we win. Everybody is so damn grouchy if we lose a game.

I was really not expecting much of anything this year given how young our offense is. I was expecting a decent defense and a struggling offense and maybe an 8 and 8 season again.

What we got is favre who is really throwing great and receivers who seem to be learning the system pretty fast or at least fast enough to get the job done.

I was thinking when I looked at our starting schedual we would be doing good to be 2 and 2 at this point. But here we are at 4-0 and looking competent color me surpised.

Are they one of the best teams in football nah but they are playing good and its fun to watch them and thats about all I ask for from my team. The pack won this week and the vikes and bears lost all is well in the universe.

Its pretty funny that they are doing so good when you just know the opposing teams know exactly what we will try to do to them and they still cannot stop favre. We have NO running game none, zip, nadda, nil. To go 4 and 0 against good teams who know damn well how one dimensional you are is pretty impressive.

Fuck this anti T.O. stuff, he's nothing compared to Randy Moss in terms of fucking outright bullshit fuckwads.  Also T.O. has never done anything bad off the field except try to kill himself.  The guy has confidence problems, almost everyone in SF is convinced he is a closet homosexual which explains a ton when you think about it.

In the Rams defense, we lost most of our front line in the first two weeks, some of them for the whole season.  Plus there's that whole Bulger-playing-with-broken-ribs-and-getting-sacked thing.

That said, I may be abandoning my hometown Rams for my college state Packers   :hello_kitty:

The NFC is a REALLY SHITTY CONFERENCE right now. The best teams in it are the Cowboys, Packers, Seahawks and TAMPA? That's shitty, and I say that as a Packers fan. I mean, Detroit is 3-1 for fuck's sake, and they got tattooed with 51 points against an Eagles team that hasn't worried anyone else they've played. You look up and down the standings in the AFC and tell me you are convinced that Arizona or the 49ers or the Giants should be 2-2.

Of course, looking through the standings, it's shaping up to be a really weird year in the NFL. It isn't just parity, there are somethings happening with teams and players that are like full moon weird.

Why are the conferences lop-sided with the salary cap?

If only he was as good at that as he is at catching TD passes and running his fucking yap. ALL THE LIVELONG DAY.

Dude, what in the hell are you talking about? The AFC basically has 3 teams! The Colts, Pats, and Steelers. Denver's 2-2 and looking very shitty barely eeking out wins against Buffalo and Oakland, but losing horribly to Jacksonville and Indy. It's exactly the same in both conferences this year. There will be 3 teams that step up and make things interesting, while the rest of the LEAGUE looks like shit across the board.

The AFC South is the strongest division in football right now. There's a reason why the Colts lost to those teams on the road last year. However this year the AFC is not looking to be as dominant over the NFC as it was last year. The Chargers fall off is the most obvious example but the Ravens D is not nearly as good as it was in years past. There's still nobody in the NFC that's shown themselves as being as good as the Pats or the Colts, however.

Bengals tackling was absolutely horrid.

That's what happens when you have no linebackers playing.

Go Browns!

I'm overjoyed at the 2-2 record, they were one blocked field goal away from being 3-1! With the toughness of their schedule for the first 5 games I really expected at best a 1-4 record and then a head coaching change. I think Romeo just bough himself the rest of the year and I actually think the Browns might be able to reach a near .500 record.

Anyone here about 230 lbs and can run a 4.5 40?  Cinci needs LB's and will pay well.  I have a good friend that played LB for Atlanta and SanDiego.  At 40, he's starting to wonder if his phone is going to ring soon.

It's a battle of which team can keep their third string healthy at this rate.    Injuries are always bad, but this year is absurd.

I'd put Denver (much as I hate to say it) and Jacksonville against any of the NFC teams this year and expect them to win or at least keep it close. Even Dallas. Denver's O is better than I thought, and their D is better than Dallas. Jacksonville's D is better than any defense in the NFC, including the Bears, Packers, Bucs and the Cowboys. I'd actually put Tennessee above half the teams in the NFC. Houston losing to Atlanta had a lot to do with their running game. Ahman Green was out, leading them to rely on Ron Dayne. You ain't getting much if Ron Dayne is your feature back.

The Chargers' shittiness is very surprising to me this year. I keep expecting them to get their mojo back, though, despite the loss to KC.

Yep.. Bengals have a grand total of 2 linebackers right now.  They were playing Special Teams and Defense both. No subs, no rest.  Whoops.


Don't get my hopes up!  I keep expecting them to flub it in the last 10 mins.  They were called the Cardiac Kids for a reason! It also helps that their last 2 games were against 2 teams they've got a big rivalry with.  Cinci/ Cleveland is always a good game, despite whatever each team's record is that year, and the Browns fucking hate Baltimore.  I loved watching them stick it to 'em.  Ahh.  :heart:

The Bengals are heartbreaking this year...

The losses have been mounting and mounting and this year they've ended up with 3 steps back on personel.

Injury, two suspensions, even more injuries...

You can almost look at it like they didn't draft anyone in 2005, with Pollack out w/ a broken neck, Odell suspended for 2 years and Chris Henry suspended for 10 games & Tab Perry injured again.  I don't follow any team as closely as I do them but I would be surprised if somebody told me they felt their team was having greater injury issues.

Chicago can make a case.

Opening day lineup, defense:
                   Brown      Archuleta 
  Vasher                                         Tillman
       Briggs         Urlacher          Hillenmeyer
     Anderson  Harris  Dvoracek  Ogunleye

Against Detroit:
               Manning   McGowan
  Manning                                 McBride (rookie)
      Williams      Urlacher         Hillenmeyer
    Anderson Harris  Walker  Ogunleye

If the front four weren't wreaking havoc all day, the Lions might have scored 34 in *every* quarter.  As if things weren't bad enough, John Tait (LT) is out with an ankle injury and the 5th safety is hurt, so they only have 2 to play the whole game against the Pack.

Pfft..... Seriously how can a perennial loser be heartbreaking?

You do realize that the Bungals have only 10 more wins than the Browns over the past 8 years and have made the playoffs the same number of times right?

Heartbreaking my ass...

Ask a Cubs fan.

I'm not sure if Delt is from Cleveland or not, he sounds like a Browns fan but I dont know whether the comparison versus the Browns proves it or tears it.

Either way, fuck off shithead.  If you enjoy football you should enjoy watching the Bengals offense when it is working as intended.  The offensive line woes plus having 2 LB's left is rather heartbreaking.

It is refreshing to see the Bengals being decimated by the injury list instead of the police blotter at least.

The 49ers Defense is good this year.  It should be.  They spent enough on it.  Only problem they have is spending three quarters of the game on the field due to their complete shit offense's inability to gain like, yards and stuff.  Is their D as good as Jax?  I'd say yea, every bit.  They don't really have a weakness.  Which is weird for a team who's always had a weak ass secondary since Ronnie Lott left.  They're also young and under contract, with the exception of Bryant Young, who is as old as Moses.

All they need is Norv Turner to get fired so they can pick him back up again as coordinator.

They should keep his cell phone on speed dial then, because he is going to be available sooner than later methinks.

I always thought of the 49'ers being roughly on the same... umm... "rebuilding pace" as the Cowboys. They'll probably flesh out their offense soon enough. Or at least... It should be about that time.

It would be if Norv Turner didn't leave to ruin the Chargers.

It's all part of Mike Nolan's Plan to take over the Universe in a shitty Reebok suit.  Seriously though, the Chargers very well could fire Turner.  If they did, they'd be retarded if they didn't try to get Schottenheimer back.  This, to me, is the most delicious irony of the NFL this year.  If it leads Turner back to calling plays for the 9ers, then the plan is complete.  He's not a good head coach, but he is perfect for sitting up in his booth calling plays.

And those two LBs were picked off of waivers cause nobody else wanted them. So they were playing with two LB rejects and a rookie saftey at LB for most of the game. On the other side NE has so many healthy LBs that they played with two LBs *on offense* on some plays as two TEs with Mike Vrabel catching a TD pass (giving him 9 catches for 9 TDs in his career as a TE).

I was watching, we can stop talking about that game any time now...

we had a LB 9 days on the team and the other 22 days on the team and our rookie safety from ND who was fun to watch when he got to play safety on the first series.


re: the 49ers (the only other team I know quite well, well the raiders too I suppose) they will never have a good offense.  Alex Smith is not the one.  He never will be.  The kid just doesn't have good football instincts, and really doesn't have top10 QB ability either.  But he's just not even smart enough to just come in and throw enough to keep a defense honest against Frank Gore aparently.  I really wish they could hand the ball to Dorsey again, they could get 9-7 w/ Dorsey in all likelyhood.

They are two pieces away from a Cowboy-esque resurgence.  They need a QB who is competent and they need a WR who deserves to be a household name.  Hate on TO all you want but you can't overestimate how much a defense has to do to keep track of him, I'm not mentioning Whitten because the Niners do have Vernon Davis and nobody is sure even out here in SF how good he might be.

I'd like to say Witten is the best TE in the league right now (heh), but he's probably just the most fortunate. ;)

Tough to say, Dallas Clark does a great job. He's got more TD's and less yards atm.

There's also Antonio Gates and Kellen Winslow.

What a gem Sammy Morris turned out to be for my fantasy team… …and Reggie Bush has done dick…

I agree that Smith is not the one, but I think the O-line and the offensive play calling are the bigger problems right now.  The Steelers game was the only one so far where the play calling was even remotely competent.

It is hard for Smith to be the one with a 300+ pound DT jumping on his head. However, I think I am with you- he hasn't shown the flashes of brilliance you would expect from a 'franchise QB'.

Actually he has shown flashes of brillance like the game winning drive in the Arizona game. He did that a couple of times last season as well. The problem is he doesn't play like that most of the time.

Yep, I'm from Cleveland. 28 of my 32 years have been in Cleveland with just a short stop in Dayton for college (back when the Bengals had no fans at all or at least no fans that would admit to being Bengals fans).

I just love giving (new) Bengals fans shit because they all seem to share this unrealistic belief that the Bengals are (and have been) somehow an elite NFL team while actual history shows otherwise. Bengals fans almost universally forget that are two sides to football as you have shown in your post. I should be sucking on bengal dick because they have an offense? I think not. Get a complete team and make the playoffs twice in a decade and then we can talk.

By the way Browns > Bengals. Better record, better divisional record, and they won heads up with the Browns having the better offense in that particular game.

Bring it.

Everyone here in 49er land got this feeling when they heard Norv Turner was leaving that it was going to be a rough year.  When he was calling plays in his own offense last year, Alex Smith looked GOOD, especially towards the end of the year.  He never looked great, but he looked good.  He's a competent guy who, if given time, won't lose a game for you.  All I want out of him really.  But Turner - There was a tangible difference in his play calling from whoever they had the year before and now this year's guy.  You never got that feeling of "What the fuck did they just call a run up the middle for on 3rd and long at the 40 yd. line."  It's a feeling I've had many times this year, and I know why.

This year, they're just not comfortable in their own skin.  They've got Jennings and Allen on their line.  They're both pro-bowl guys.  There's no way they should be getting beat as bad as they are.  It doesn't take a football guy to watch their linemen arguing on the sideline after they ole'd for the 4th or 5th sack of the game, and see that the system isn't being coached well.  Linemen arguing on the sideline.  How often do you see that?  Three offensive coordinators in three years.  Not good.  Worse than I thought.  Oh god.

I just heard Golic on ESPN say that the injury of Smith could be good for them, as Dilfer's more of a pocket guy.  He said that could help the line figure out where their assholes are, and finish the comparison with the hole in the ground.  I hope so.  Okay, he didn't really say it like that.

I've been a Bengals fan my whole life, which admittedly means at the age of 6 when I watched them lose the superbowl to the home town team is my first real football memory.  But thanks for making dumbass assumptions you fucking fat cleveland twit.

I never said dick about the Browns, you brought them up, I have nothing but sympathy for browns fans considering the way they got dicked when their team left them and then won the superbowl for a diff city.

Your just a fucking prick making a stupid assumption though.  Wtg.

Granted, I didn't have the time to pay attention to the offseason, and NFL news up here can be sporadic, but I expected more out of a few teams, the 49ers being one of them. I had them pegged to have a decent season and to see Vernon Davis become the next Antonio Gates (ok, maybe not THAT good, but I figured he'd have a breakout year). I expected the Rams and Saints to have a bit of a fall-off, but nothing like what is occuring with those two teams. I also figured that Jacksonville would be better, and I'm paying for it with my fantasy teams where I have Jones-Drew on all of them.

I did say one thing that so far appears to be true, I said that the Chargers had solved their 'not winning in the playoffs' problem by hiring a coach that won't even get them there.

I think Davis has just as much skill and smarts as Witten, but without the team to create/distract for him -- which is what he needs. Neither one are Gates or Gonzales though. Those two are so good that their teams build their entire offensive strategy around them.

Poor Green Bay. How could you let the game slide away like that to the BEARS? How!?!?

Seahawks v Steelers-

<insert Ned Beatty Deliverance screen cap here>


God that was sad. Offense looked like they had never played together before, and the defense finally got tired after being on the field for 25 FUCKING MINUTES OF THE 2ND HALF.

Let's just get a tally of my weekend.

Drew Brees gets dickstomped again. Somehow my fantasy football team still wins.

Packers shit the bed in the second half, for reasons which are a mystery to me. Though I suspect Favre got pissed that his coach learned his clock management skills from Art Shell.

Cubs gets swept. I should be used to this by now, but it still stings like an assTrusion.

Liverpool draws to a team they should have beat. My sports weekend pretty much sucked rocks.

What Colts team showed up against the Bucs on Sunday? We got absolutely curbstomped while the Colts showed why they are Super Bowl champs.

It's starting to look like a three or four team league in the first third of the season.

Can the 49ers get any worse?
Here's a bit of draft info for you:  The Pats own our first round draft pick so even though they lost theirs, they will most likely draft high.

Not really, unless you replace Dilfer with Drew Bledsoe or better yet a garden gnome.  The gnome's got mobility on both of them.

Niners will be bad until they get a real QB. Then, they have to add some competent receivers.  A former QB and a guy mostly remembered for doing coke/dropping passes won't cut it.  Vernon Davis has yet to prove himself to be anything other than another freak athlete drafted way too high.  He should go hang out with Matt Jones. 

And yah, Frank Gore is good.  Very good.  He just needs more than the holes he's gotten this year.  He's got to feel a bit like Edge did last year.

There is a possibility that NE won't have any draft picks due to the controversy in Week One. Don't forget that. ;)

Oh what the fuck?! The Bills are pulling some sneaky shit already. Thought tonight was gonna be a breeze.  :x

It's even worse now.


Go Bills! Sorry, I can't pull for America's team because my boss at work loves 'em. I might need to have him Baker Acted or put on suicide watch if the Boys lose. :)

He's referring to that.  The Pats had two first round picks when the season started, theirs and the 9'ers.

Sucks to be the Bills.

Speaking as a lifelong Cowboys fan, I'm freaking ecstatic. That was the biggest emotional rollercoaster I've seen in a long time in the NFL and we came out on top. Romo played like ass but marched the ball when it counted at the end.

PS - That coaches call at the snap on a kick, that shit has to go tomorrow. WAKE UP NFL! That's dirty pool.

I'm not gonna gloat. Dallas fell apart, but Folk was the freakin man tonight.

I FUCKING LOVE THIS GAME.   

Tony Romo is the second quarterback in Monday Night Football history to throw five picks and win. The other one? Wade Wilson, now the Cowboys QB coach, with the Vikings.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-3-386/Tony-Romo-factoid.html (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-3-386/Tony-Romo-factoid.html)

I feel for the Bills. They are a hard working team that still manages to lose consistently. They aren't at all like the Dolphins, who happen to be the butt-cyst of the NFL.

The Bills are one of the cursed teams. Miami has nothin' on them.

When you consider how many times they've been to the Super Bowl only to tank big time. The winters sure are cold in Buffalo.

There was a funny X-Files episode about that once. It was all about the Smoking Man...Kind of a day-in-the-life of the Smoking Man. Anyways, there was this one scene where he and his cronies were having a roundtable about the day-to-day plots they were carrying out, and then one guy brought up the Buffalo Bills. The Smoking Man cut in and was like "As long as I live, the Bills will never win a damn thing!" Haha

Last night really had to hurt though, cuz it was the Cowboys who pounded them in the ass back in the day. That shit is probably personal with a lot of Buffalo fans

There are at least six plays they had to make down the stretch to win the game, and it is a shame that they couldn't make even one of them.


But then it goes to show why they didn't deserve to win the game, even if they made Romo look like a JV football quaterback.

My best friend is a huge Bills fan, I don't have a particular team I stick with. I was happy things were going well for the Bills, but the commentatards were celebrating WAY too early. It's the Bills. Choke is what they do best.

Someone should've gotten the camera out of Romo's face a lot faster after the game.

No doubt.  Despite the fact that I'm a firm believer that it helps the kicker, that shit pissed me off, and I didn't have a horse in the race (I'm a Packers fan).  All it's going to take is for some kicker to miss it on the 'time out' kick, then make it on the next one.  It's a bush league play.

At least we didn't have Gramatica. He probably would have nailed the first kick, then jumped up and down like a fool, popped his knee out of place, and then fucked up the second one.

I've looked and I've looked and no-where can I find the headline, "Major Breakthrough in Bush Probe."

All things considered I am rather disappointed that no one went for the obvious low hanging fruit.

Geez....

Nobody wants to rub in the Cowboys loss? I guess that's because even Cowboys fans expected it. That's fine though, 12-4 is all I'm shooting for.

Romo looked much better in the second half, probably because the Cowboys made some OL adjustments. In 30 some-odd years of watching football though I haven't seen a more dominant team than the Pats right now. I'm wondering if they peaked too early though and fizzle out somewhat to "beatable" by the time the playoffs get here.

I was prepared for a loss, but I expected a lot closer of a game. I think Wade concentrated too much on making big defensive plays.... And realized he screwed up once the game actually started. The Pats just chip and chip away, and Brady can not be stopped on 3rd it seems.

I think a team has gotta match them --- and then they have to make a few huge plays to put it over the top. The Cowboy offense is one of the few who have a chance of actually scoring over 40 points against them too, but for whatever reason, they weren't prepared to play like that yesterday.

[EDIT] Hell, the 27 that Dallas DID score was the most NE has allowed to anyone so far, and that's without their usual confidence. They're capable of more...So that's what disappoints me about that game the most.


Anyways, hell no. The Patriots won't fizzle out. They're even better now than before.

If the Giants win tonight by 4+ points, my $1k Sports Select ticket this week hits! I took Baltimore to win, NE to win, Tampa/Tenn to tie, GB/Wash to tie and Giants to win.

Suddenly, I'm pretty interested in a very shitty MNF game.

I just hadn't got to posting yet.

I believe that yes, I did indeed say that the Cowboys were not as good as all that. Both teams are what we thought they were. The NFL is a 2-team league right now, Indy and New England. Every one else is playing a division below that. Frankly, I'm not even sure the Cowboys are better than the Chargers or the Steelers. I know both defenses are better than the Cowboy's D.

The Packers showed that they are a cut below the Cowboys, IMO. They have to get a running game going, or they are going to get beat in the playoffs by someone like Dallas or Tampa Bay.

My top 10 power rankings for the NFL right now are : 1) New England, 2) Indy, 3) Pittsburgh, 4) San Diego, 5) Dallas, 6) Baltimore, 7) Tampa Bay, 8) Jacksonville, 9) Green Bay, 10) Carolina.

Seattle really strapped on the clown shoes.  They are like the Seahawks of my childhood.

Shit nevermind

The Cowboys really stepped on their dick with the dozen penalties for 100 yards.  Drive killers right there.  That and yes they could not stop them on 3rd down AT ALL didn't matter if it was for 20 yards or 2.  Anthony Henry please get healthy. 

I still think the Cowboys are playoff bound and they are still my pick to make it to the Super Bowl in the NFC. I think that playing the Patriots early in the season will give them a huge advantage in the Super Bowl, because they will know exactly what to expect. I think Wade was confused by how good the Pats are on 3rd downs, and we always played the wrong defense.

I am not sure I can discuss it rationally yet. At least I wasn't AT that debacle. OTOH, if I was there, I would have been drunk, so that might have made it slightly less painful.

Hasselbeck is playing like dogshit. He is overthrowing guys, taking too long to make his reads, and audibling too often (when asked why Weaver ran for 2 yards on 4 and 3, all Holmgren would say was "I had a pass play called".

The pass rush was nonexistent. Brees had all fucking day to sit back and pick the secondary apart. The O line was mediocre at best again, and Shaun Alexander got his ass booed (and rightfully so).

The team is in shambles atm. My only hope right now is that they get by a truly terrible Rams team next week, get to the bye, get some guys healthy, and pull their collective heads out of their asses. They can still easily win their division, but they will get shellacked by anyone else in the playoffs.

Yeah he is the definition of 'playing for a big contract'.  Once he got that he was useless, and just worse now without Strong blocking for him.  Wonder what being benched for a few games would do to turn that around but that will never happen. 

I think the falling cameras spooked the Seahawks.




Note: bring large cameras to next week's game vs Atlanta.  We need wins.

Of course they'll make the playoffs, with a good shot at making the Super Bowl. It's not like they are a bad team. I mean, who else is going to challenge them in the NFC? Green Bay? Not without a running game. The Bucs? Their streak is going to end soon, that defense isn't going to carry them the whole year. The Giants? SHITTY D will tell and the Giants have been making ground on inconsistent or plain bad teams. The Cowboys are the best team in the NFC, they just aren't anywhere near New England's level. Romo vs. Brady (or even Manning) in the Super Bowl? Not a contest, Romo will not win. At least not for another few years.

Everybody wants to crown the Pats or the Colts right now, but this is the NFL. Granted, this year's version of parity isn't anywhere near as good as it's been in the past, but you have to play a full season and then survive your way through the gauntlet that is the playoffs. Who's to say that Pittsburgh or Denver couldn't step up and bite those teams in the ass in a playoff run? Who's to say the Giants don't suddenly emerge as a new defensive unit in the second half of the year? Who's to say that the Bears won't find new offensive hope by putting Devon Hester on offensive plays instead of just as a return man?

I just think the second half will toss some whacky changes at the league.

Oh, it most definitely will not be Denver at the very least.

Shit, this season has ALREADY been whacky as fuck. I don't doubt there could be some curveballs thrown in the second half or the playoffs. I firmly believe that if the Colts get a first-round bye, they will not make the Super Bowl. Both those teams are likely to lose at least 1 game if not more. If anyone can stop them, it's Pittsburgh.

But the Giants find a consistent, competent defense? Now you're in lulz land.

If you want to crown them, crown their ass! They are who we thought they were!

It'll come down to the 49ers and Seahawks game on Nov 12.
Although I'm not sure winning the worst division is something to be proud of.

Pity I don't have tickets to that one, or I would invite your over to our tailgating spot for some pre-game smacktalk and plenty of adult beverages. IIRC I have St. Louis, Chicago, and Arizona left to attend. If they don't start playing better I am not sure I will bother- people are getting outrageous prices for tickets through the brokers.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the Brownies this year- only a missed field goal against Oakland from being 4-2 right now.  Of course it will all end horribly at something like 6-10, but one can dream.

Thank you Giants, now I have just over $1k in winnings to put towards a new PC.

Were you sweating at all? There was a few times that I thought that game was going to be an upset. Giants D came out looking kind of uninterested in the game and Eli was doing his Rex Grossman impression. Thank goodness the Falcons receivers aren't worth a damn and kept dropping well placed balls.

I didn't actually consider it over until the Giants went up 31-10. I was having troubles watching the game so I was flipping channels and I came back to the game in time to see 1.) Norwood rush for his TD 2.) Eli fumble the ball when the score was just 14-10 and I needed the Giants to not only win, but win by at least 4 points.

So yes, I was sweating a few times last night.

I agree that the packers unless we can get a competent running game are going to have a hard time if we make it to the playoffs but damn if you would have asked me before the season if we could be 5-1 going into the bye week I would have laughed in your face.

We are doing way better than I expected so even if we don't do much in the playoffs its still a really nice change from last year

Even more surprising are the Buccaneers at 4-2. WTF?

Go Bucs! :)

I'm so glad Jeff Garcia has gotten a chance to show he can still play after being stuck on some crappy teams after leaving the 49ers. He's no Hall of Fame QB like Montana and Young but he was good enough to get them to the playoffs which seems like such a distant memory now. Philly should've kept him given how immobile McNabb is now, though McNabb can still throw the ball well enough.

Heh, totally off the subject, but I used to think Garcia was one of the "in-the-closet" athletes we hear about. But alas, he's married to a Playmate.

Don't worry though. I'm not hatin'. I think TO is gay too.

And his wife got into a bar fight with one of his ex-girlfriends, grabbing a dancing pole and kicking the ex-girlfriend in the head.

I'm pretty happy that the Bucs signed Garcia. It's kinda nice too, since Garcia is ex-CFL, TSN up here tends to show TB highlights now. Plus, it's always nice to see the guys that start out in the CFL go on to good things in the NFL.

Easily the best QB the Bucs have had in years. Tough as it gets for that position and makes pretty smart decisions. Rare that the Bucs can be 6 games in and their QB hasn't throw an INT yet. He just might save Chucky's job this year.

Shaun King wasn't bad, but he wasn't a playmaker. Sims and Griese weren't too shabby either.

I think if the Bert Emanuel catch had been actually ruled a catch, I'd have a different view of King. Now, I think of him as only seeming good because he was replacing a terrible Trent Dilfer. I think Simms seems better than he was because I really really really wanted him to be the 'QB of the future', but I don't think he was. Griese was one dog-trip away from being terrible again. I never trusted Griese who only seemed to play when he wanted to, and that wasn't very often.

TO is gay, didn't I post that everyone in SF knows this earlier in the thread?  Once you realize TO is gay you feel bad for him and want him to do well.  He's got so much self loathing going you have to feel bad.


I stick by that statement 100%  fucking Randy Moss god damn him if he gets a fucking ring. 

I know I said this last week, but I think it's coming true. This guy is a hero on the gamesaving play. He should get more snaps.

You know, if the Vikings could complete one goddamn pass, the Cowboys would be 5-2. They looked very ordinary for most of that game. Some folks are getting on the Vikes coach for only giving Peterson 12 carries, but I don't blame him. Peterson would have gotten a lot more carries if the goddamn Vikes could complete a 3rd pass. Tavaris Jackson sucks, and his wideouts suck worse. They only had like 40-something plays on offense, which means Peterson got in on over 1/4 of the plays from scrimmage.

Ordinary? What's with you and the Cowboys? Touchdown on the first run (a first), Witten was pretty much automatic, TO didn't slip up on the big passes, Romo was 28 of 32 by the first half, and Barber played like Peterson in the second half. They played better than they usually do.

It's the Vikings. The Cowboys should have MASSACRED that team. I will give Romo props, he was accurate as hell most of the game.

But it's the fucking Vikings. They should have been up 21 points in the first half. It should never have been as close as it was. The Cowboys just seem to go through these phases where they put up yards, but no points because the drives just stall. I expected Barber to play like he did in the second half. In fact, the Cowboys team actually showed up in the second half. Against both New England and the Vikings, it's like the Boys only want to play about 2 1/2 quarters of football.

They are still the best team in the NFC.

Considering the raw stats, yeah, the Cowboys should have been further ahead, but that's Vikings football, I guess. Forcing turnovers. Well that, and running. Not so much the Cowboys fault there as it is a credit to the D.

[edit] You're right though.. If they had some kind of passing game, they could be something else. Hell, even if it wasn't that good. Just "existent" would do.

I hardly think that a blocked FG for a TD could be considered ordinary in that game, especially since it's the first one for the Cowboys in 25 years. Also, the spread was 9.5 and Dallas covered. I always fail to understand the "oh they should have beat the shit out of X" argument when you win and cover.

People forget that this is the NFL and really the only teams that deserve to get massacred every game are the Dolphins.  But even so these are adult super-freakish-atheletes, capable of doing crazy shit any given weekend.  Any win is a good win in the NFL.  Which is why the ass poundings the Pats hand out to everyone are so disturbing.  You just don't win games like that over and over in this league...

Don't forget the Rams. The Seahawks aren't very good right now and they beat the shit out of the Rams. If the Seattle offense had any semblance of competence they would have scored 60 points.

The blocked FG for a TD wasn't ordinary. But look how badly the Vikes played offense. Their longest drive after the first Vikes TD was 4 minutes long. 8 of their drives had 3 or fewer snaps. Dallas had the ball over 12 minutes longer. And the best they can do is beat the Vikes by 10 points, 7 of which was from the blocked FG? With as badly as the Vikes offense played, and as good as the Dallas offense is supposed to be (and should be with the talent they have), it's got to be considered a sign of an inconsistent team when they don't whip the piss out of a team like that.

Yes, I am a Cowboys hater, I'll freely admit that. It pisses me off that they really are the best team in the NFC, because I know if they get to the Super Bowl against a Colts or Pats team, they will get demolished. I hate one-sided Super Bowls.

Um, the Pats are going to demolish anyone. This is their season to lose, and frankly I'd be shocked if they drop a game to anyone the way Bill Belichick is coaching.

Only if they run out of video tape.

Ummm... any team that makes the Super Bowl from the NFC is gonna get demolished. However it turns out, this year is going to be a one-sided Super Bowl unless Brady or Manning gets hurt in the AFC championship game.

Knowing the end result of this season is Belichick getting another ring kinda makes me wonder if watching the rest of the season is really worth it.

Who knows what could happen? Maybe Brady will wear out, maybe Moss will pull a gun on some soccer mom for taking his parking space.

That's how I've been feeling lately: Why watch football at all if it's just the Patriots again?

It doesn't help that my team is garbage this season (and has been since 2002) but I'll pull for any one but the Patriots.

I can watch and hope that a 300 pounder rolls into Brady's knee, or hits him full speed the head. Also be nice to a see a speeding LB drill Belichick on the sidelines.

I watch because I have enough money tied up in pools that it's still interesting,  One thing I've found playing so much Fantasy Football is that I'm starting to stop cheer for teams, and am cheering for players (except the Bucs). I'm not sure I like that spin on the game.

To be honest, I still think Dallas has a chance to meet them again, AND beat them.

And even if they don't, this is the best they've played in awhile. So I'm cool with that too.

Hey, I'm watching because of the resurrection of my Packers. I know good and damn well the Pack will likely lose in the playoffs to Dallas, but damn it's fun to see Favre happy again instead of eating dirt every 3 plays.

I wouldn't call myself a Packers fan, but it's good to see Brett enjoying the game. I hope that this is it for him and he goes out on a relatively high note.

Agreed completely.

And ya, I keep watching this season anyways. I was just being whiny. I can only hope the Colts take them down. I'm not real sure they can, but after pummeling the Jags last night, I have hope again. And as a Giants fan, I'm glad to see my D stepping up and playing like they should have been all along. Thank you, Spagnuolo.

The Colts are the only team that I'd lay even money on knocking off the Pats. Someone else will beat them this year, just on the law of averages, and if for no other reason than they give gives time off once home-field or the first-round bye is sewn up. The only team in the division I think has a chance to beat them is Buffalo, and only if the Bills get lucky.

The reason why I think the Boys could still beat the Pats is that crazy 2 yd run Barber had on them last game. What would make Phillips even resort to a running game though, I don't know.

Why do you guys hate the Pats? I'm a total noob NFL wise, that's the second season I semi-follow. What am I missing? Why are they hate worthy and why does someone have to bust Brady's knee and ruin his record setting season?

It all started with a little something called 'The Tuck Rule.'

Well, that's when it started for me. I have a friend who's a die hard Raiders fan and I don't think he could possibly hate anything more than he hates the Patriots. Moss getting his wish and getting traded there, then you know, actually TRYING is just pouring more salt in what is now more of a decapitation than an open wound.

At one point during the off-season, my buddy and I were talking football and Favre's retirement came up. I said I think he loves playing and he'll stay as long as he can still play well...as long as he gets a decent O line and some protection. Without that, he'll retire.

That said, it is great to see him throwing bullet passes again. Really, I'm not too much a fan of 'teams', I like watching good players play well. I don't care who it is. I like NE, I like the Colts, I like GB, I like Pitt. Colts are probably my favorite team, not because they're superbowl champs, I've liked them a while now. Manning is great to watch, and it's nice to have Addai in there, but I like their defence, Dungey has done good stuff there like my man Freeney and now Sanders.

Tuck rule? Eh, get over it. If you hate a football team, you need to do some serious life re-evaluation ;)

Let's be fair, I'd be sacrificing goats daily to get off that Raiders team. They have zero, ZERO hope of being playoff bound in the AFC in the next 5 years. You think an NFL player is gonna kill themselves week in and week out for a team with zero shot at going anywhere? You're dreaming. Not only is that shortening your career, but it's also never going to win titles. This is a business, baby, as much as the fans want it not to be. I learned that hard lesson as a Cowboys fan.

Moss is still a douchebag, but you'd have to be a braindead not to want to latch on to the Patriots or Colts right now as a wide-out. I mean come on.

You're right, it is a business and Moss was VERY well paid to play football in Oakland, which he didn't do. If you can't play for the team, at least play for your paycheque. Then he got traded to arguably the best team of the last 5-6 years and decides to play again. Of course he wanted to play for them, but forcing the Raiders hand on the issue was bullshit.

All I have to do is say 'Tuck rule' and my buddy goes off, it's awesome. :) We probably get him going every 2nd week.

I don't hate the Pats really. If I was gonna hate them, it would have been several years ago. They're a lot more fun to watch now.

I don't hate the Pats. I just hate their coach. And their QB. And their safety. And their owner. And their fans. 

I hate whoever thier opponent happens to be. If an NFL team is going to throw the ball on 90% of downs, you damn fucking well should be able to defend against it. Every defensive coordinator who has played the Pats so far this year is a retard as far as I am concerned.

Watching the Brady and the Pats is the closest thing I have seen in the NFL to watching a CFL game.

Oh, and the hate thing is much like the hate of the Yankees, or any other powerhouse in a league that isn't your home team. It wouldn't make any sense to hate the Dolphins, for example.

There comes a point where you're just wasting your time trying to stop a team like that. I think whoever beats them will be the team that concentrates on racking up points themselves (and that CAN do it....which would pretty much limit it to the Colts, or Dallas again).

That's what I thought. I was just asking because of that tape thing a month ago and thought there was may be more of this stuff.

Browns matched their win total from last season!!  Of course, of the remaining nine games, five are on the road.  But a lot of them look theoretically winnable- Buffalo, Bengals, San Fran, and the like.  Feel free to quote this and laugh when they finish 6-10. 

I'm looking at purchasing a Titans-branded defibrillator for fourth quarters.

There's always next season for the niners.  :cry:

That's what we've been saying for 4 years now.

One year it'll come true.

I have my doubts as long as the Yorks are owners.

In Cleveland we say "Wait till last year".

Go Browns!

First back to back wins in 64 games! First road win of the season! First better than .500 record since opening day 2004!

Damn did Derek Anderson (who?) look awesome. I think I read his QB rating was over a 140!

They are still incredibly bad on defense but at least the high-powered offense makes the games fun to watch. I'm guessing they'll pull out another 4-5 wins this year and finish right at or slightly over .500. The defense just isn't there yet for any sort of playoff run.

Oh and last thing....

Who dey back in the cellar where they belong!

After three decades of listening to their fans spout nonsensical bullshit, I hate the skins as much as the next man.  However, what the Patriots did yesterday was seriously uncalled for.   You don't run up the score like that in a professional game.   

Right now, the Pats are giving the NFL, the media and the fans and great big FUUUUUCK YOU. They're going out of their way to absolutely pound teams, just to prove that the videotaping had nothing to do with them winning. However, the football Gods hate teams that run up scores and when they trying a QB sneak late in a the fourth quarter of game on a 4th and 1 at the goal line, Brady will break his collarbone and be done for the season.

You won't see anyone sitting on this team if they're 14-0, or 15-0. They're gonna keep the foot planted firmly down on the gas pedal and keep going. Years from now, when they do a season retrospect, I bet the Pats players won't be calling this season 'fun' even if they happen to go undefeated. They're playing mad and angry and it shows.

Why did Garcia have to throw his first second third INT all in the same game :(

Because quality (or lack of) can only be hidden for so long.  :evil:

I don't think the Pats ran up the score (though unfortunately I couldn't see the game because I live 3 hours from New Orleans). These guys are professionals. You want them to stop running up the score? Defend the fucking goal. Play some fucking defense. If you can't stop them, don't fucking whine, because you aren't alone.

Next week's game is going to be fantastic. Indy and the Pats. I'm still not sure the Colts can win, but it's at home, so who knows?

I think it's crazy that in this late in a season an undefeated team will be an underdog at home.

Oh it's a crazy fucking season. Cats and dogs sleeping together crazy.

I don't like the Pats, but the media whining about running up the score and respect and all this shit is complete crap. This is football. This isn't fancypants teaparty frilly doilies hour. Teams don't get the score run up on them if they stop sucking. The Patriots are heads and shoulders better than everyone they've played, including my Cowboys, and barring major injuries they won't stop cramming the ball down everyone's throat until you stop them. I can't say I disagree with that mentality. If I had the chance to step on the neck of every team I played for 16 straight games, I'd do it with an "Eat our shit" smile all the way to the record-books.

The Pats are running up the score and not because it ended up being 52 - 7 but because Brady played in the 4th quarter for 6 minutes when the score was already 38 - 0 and then finally left after scoring another touchdown (and then his backup scored the final TD for the Pats). In one of the earlier weeks Bill Belichick made some lame ass excuse about only being ahead by 14 points which is why they had to keep all the starters on O in the game. Apparently this time around he didn't think his D could hold a 38 point lead against the vaunted Redskins O (ranked 30th in the league) which is why Brady was playing so late in the game.

These Pats remind me of the 1984 49ers except that the 49ers would build up a big lead by halftime and then coast for the rest of the game. As a fan it was actually annoying they did that cause you wanted to see the stars score touchdowns but it was understandable why they didn't. Belichick, however, has shown he has no class -- that's just the way he is as a person.

FAAAVVVVVVV-RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

That's right, bitches. Look at the arm on Brett! Man that was fucking fantastic. Of course, as many times as the Broncos shit the bed in the red zone last night, it's a wonder Green Bay had a chance, but they've been lucky like that this year.

But goddamnit, if I have to listen to one more second of Kornhole trolling everyone in the booth, I swear I'll vomit. That guy just engenders all kinds of stabbiness in me. And FFS, will you please stop interviewing celebs in the booth during the fucking game? Great, Vince Vaughn has another movie coming out. I DON'T FUCKING CARE, I'm here to watch football. At least when they interview Deanna Favre, that's tangenitally related to the game. Celebs in the booth just piss me the fuck off.

Agreed on the celeb thing, I tuned it out and played guitar but it is obnoxious.

I almost turned off the game early, it was a decent game and Favre was playing pretty well and the new kid on the Broncos was interesting, but I wanted to get in some gaming. So glad I stayed with it, a Favre long bomb to win in overtime on the first play is what football is all about, dammit.

Just watched the highlights of that bronco's game.  I'm a big broncos fan that hates the broncos.

Also, Romo just got a 6 year extension.

I can't freakin stand what ESPN has done to MNF. They all need to stfu and actually ... I dunno ... call the game? Please? Not that Madden and Michaels are my all time favorite announcers or anything. But I'll take them back over having to listen to those ESPN dumbasses yap about whatever comes to the top of their mind.

And for the love of all that's good in the world, stop with the player introductions. Just read off who's playing and get back to the game.

Ya, I'm an ESPN MNF hater. I guess I need to learn to watch the game on mute.

See, I like Jaws on MNF and don't mind Turico. But fucking Kornhole has to go. He's dreadful. He contributes fuckall. The celeb thing is totally useless and yeah, the cheeky player intros are just really too distracting. ESPN's MNF could do with a hefty dose of STFU.

Jaws WAS good until he got on MNF full-time imo

Jaws has turned into a fucking cheerleader.  He needs to be beaten half to death with whatever is left of his integrity.

I still like Jaws because he actually knows what's going on in football. Turico blends into the background noise pretty well. Tony is the obvious weak link. It's almost like he's trying to prove he's worth a damn, but all he ends up saying is usually rambling and/or obvious.

Brett Favre is the everyman and that's why we like him? Gee Tony, that never crossed my mind!

That's what frustrates me about Jaws, he DOES know what's going, he just stopped sharing his knowledge.

Yah, but he's 200% more excited about what's going on!

I just wish he'd ignore Turico and Kornholer and do his own thing.

I think Jaws is partly overcompensating and partly playing off what's going on around him as well. He just needs to stick to his strengths, which is usually teaching me something new about the game I wasn't thinking of.

I get the feeling the producers told Jaws to dumb it down after the Dennis Miller debacle. What they fail to get is that people didn't hate Dennis Miller because his comedy was too high-brow it was mainly because he just sucked on MNF.

Do not make the mistake of overestimating the brow of the average MNF viewer.

/em with you totally

On and on an on about the families, and all the pomp and hype over Favre (and I write this as a Packer fan) or whoever the elevated player du jour is… …I just want to watch the game, I don't want to hear about the make believe epic ramifications… …good Gates, it's just a freaking game…

Jaws is good, the only + in that trio, though Turico is nowhere near as annoying as Kornheiser. Why do network sports head honchos keep shoveling blathering New York idiots at the rest of the country… …I'm sure his family is proud of him, but good Gates, his yell at you style and thick accent have got to go…

…never thought I'd think that I'd rather hear Joe Theisman. At least then, the annoyance would be Joe pontificating on how he had lunch/dinner with said coach/player and talked about another said coach/player… …I would ponder, just how many lunches and dinners did he eat this week…

Dennis Miller experiment was awful, worse than Kornholio…

I don't know why we even need announcers, or they should just limit it to 2, even the sideline reporter schticks are beyond silly… …"how did you feel after you caught that touchdown pass?" or "what are your thoughts after seeing your QB get sacked six times in the first half?"… …the 3rd man comic guy schtick could work but the kind of individual that could make it work would quickly get into trouble with NFL and network powers for irreverent and non-deferential stuff that would actually be entertaining…

Howard was the best… …yeah, the nation hated him, but he was entertaining, not afraid to call it like it was (at least in his distorted, peculiar perception) and he was fun just to sit around drink beers and laugh at him calling everybody the "best ever", or injecting multi-syllable alliterations that came natural, not awkwardly artificial and contrived (like Miller's schtick)… …RIP Cosell…

Heh. Naum, I have about five of that baseball card :)

Holy crap did you see that Brackett interception.

Go go Colts!

Edit: NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

That sums it up nicely.

Tom Brady is a robot.

That Pats/Colts game had so many crap interference calls. I'm no Pats fanboy but they really got screwed on a couple calls. Colts huy hugs the other guy's waist and doesn't get a call, then the refs call defensive pass interence on what was really offensive pass interference, then make another pass intereference call on a play with basically no touching.

The calls were horrible. I'm a Pats hater and even I cringed a couple times and went "c'mon... that was b.s..."

Crazy... Another week goes by and I can still say "GO BROWNS!!!"

Goddamn is it possible that we have 3 sports back in Cleveland again?

What a weekend of football.

The refs were dick in that Indy/Pats game. Pure dick. I have to wonder if that game would have been as close had the Colts had Marvin Harrison, or even Anthony Gonzales for the whole game. After the first half, when I expected Indy to move the ball better, they just couldn't get anything going. Gonzales was on the bench for the most part, and Moorehead wasn't going to scare anyone. The Pats could single-cover Moorehead and put Rondey Harrison on Dallas Clark, and suddenly the only passing outlet is Joseph Addai. And Addai is a fucking stud, but no way were those quick checkdown passes going to work enough against that good a team. Last years AFC Champsionship, the Pats were missing their Harrison (Rodney), this matchup the Colts missed their Harrison and both those losses had a huge effect on the games. Maybe when they meet in the Playoffs, both Harrisons will be healthy.

It was still a great fucking game, the kind of smashmouth football nobody expected. But the fact that both teams could play that kind of football should just tell the rest of the league just to pack it up. No one's going to compete with a team that can finesse OR smash you to death. I think Pittsburgh and maybe Dallas (and that's a real iffy maybe) are the only teams with a prayer of beating either of these two.

Dallas took care of Philly, which should shock anyone. Philly just sucks it this year, except when McNabb is on. And he hasn't been most of the year.

The Chargers? WTF? How does a defense that good let someone run up 296 yards on them? It's not like Minnesota has ANYTHING else to use. FFS, if Peterson is in the backfield, throw 9 in the box. What the fuck else are the Vikings going to do, throw the ball with Brooks Bollinger and those shitty wideouts? There is no excuse for being that shitty with that defense.

Cleveland Browns... wtf? A guy named Derrick Anderson should not be putting up those kinds of numbers. But Winslow and Edwards are showing their quality, and they have a running game. Seattle? Man, does the NFC West suck it or what?

Green Bay and Detroit take care of business, and suddenly, they are among the class of the conference. That should not be. But both teams have some pretty damn good, young wideouts, and unfortunately for Green Bay, Detroit has the running game the Packers wish they had. That Thanksgiving Day showdown in Detroit is going to be a fucking lights out arena football scorefest, and will easily be the best game of the day. Packers/Cowboys week 13 on Thursday night will also be kickass.

Thank God, Chad Johnson is ok. He flew back with the team. That was one helluva hit. I don't care what anyone says, I love Chad Johnson. He has all the right attitude, his showboating is never about disrepecting anyone, and he had the balls to say he wouldn't do endzone celebrations until the Bengals got to be .500. He's the kind of player that Randy Moss and Terrell Owens SHOULD be.

Oh.

I'd never seen it until in online form.

And my early 1970ish Clemente cards got rid up by my Mom I think…

I don't like the Pats, but all the Colts fans seemed to think they actually had a chance in this game. Frankly, I didn't see it happening, but they at least made it close.
The Cowboys looked great against a shitty Eagles team, and TO continued to piss off the average football fan with more of his antics. Whitten running without his helmet for 35 yards was pretty cool though.
The Green Bay v. Chiefs game was just about the most boring first half of football I've seen in a long long long time. Ugh. I'm glad Favre keeps winning, but man they don't play very well until the second half.

As soon as I figure out how to get my big toe inside the trigger guard of this shotgun, this season will come to an abrupt and merciful close for me.

It's all about the o-line and finally having a pocket QB. Anderson has a hell of an arm and that's about it. He still misses reads and can't run worth crap but man the guy can outright gun the ball. Only problem is when he can't set both his feet. The good thing is the o-line this year is unfocking believable and they've been giving him the time he needs. They've actually got depth and Joe Thomas is everything a 3rd overall pick should be. The kid is just solid.

My only question is what the hell do the Browns do with Quinn now? My feel is that if DA can keep producing for the rest of the year they ship him off for a first rounder or early second rounder and then let Quinn take over right at the start of camp next year while getting good value for DA.

They DID have a chance, despite not having Marvin Harrison. Their defense was just flying all over the field, punching motherfuckers in the chops. But when you can't move the ball for shit the entire second half, the defense can only do so much. I'm not saying the Colts would have won with a healthy Harrison, but they wouldn't have been stuck in neutral the second half. No one is scared of Anthony Moorehead at wideout.

That Whitten run was the bomb. Motherfucker is tough.

Don't whine, you could be like me and divide your loyalty between the 'Hawks and the Bears.

Or the Hawks and the Canucks?


Where the HELL are those shotgun shells?

Yea, well, 25 years of watching the Canucks has dulled the senses to the losing. Back in the good old days, we just cheered for 'em for working hard and wearing scary uniforms, and we liked it damnit!

Yes. The look on his face when the defenders both roll off him, I knew he got popped good. The bloody nose didn't surprise me, I thought he had a concussion. I liked that play so much I made an avatar from a frame of the nfl.com video. So badass.

That Witten run was BONFIDE badass. We all jumped off the couch and cheered when he kept running. 

Last night's Monday night game was a horrible horrible game. It was the ugliest first half I've ever seen Baltimore play. Ugh.

Shit, Baltimore is DONE. When even McNair can't make your offense function effectively, it's over. Granted, the Steelers have a good D, but to be embarrassed like that, with such turnovers, I just don't see that team making the playoffs. They are definitely out of my top 10.

Early (and sure to be wrong) playoff pics:

AFC
1 New England
2 Indy
3 Pittsburgh
4 San Diego
5 Jacksonville
6 Tennessee

NFC
1 Dallas
2 Green Bay
3 Tampa Bay
4 Seattle
5 Giants
6 Detroit

I no longer regard the Giants as that bad. Their defense has come around, but it's going to desert them come the playoffs. I wanted to put Detroit ahead of the Giants, but looking at their schedule, I just can't. They still have 2 games against Green Bay, a game against Dallas and San Diego and KC, all of which are games they could either win big or lose big. The Giants benefit from having games against Washington, Philly, Buffalo and Chicago, all of which they could lose but should win. I'm more sure of the Lions' opponents than I am of the Giants' opponents.

I agree with your division winners but I don't see both wildcards coming out of the South.

I hate to say it because I'm sure it means they won't win another game but the Browns actually have real potential to get that last spot. They have a pretty soft schedule for the rest of the year:

@Pittsburgh - Hopefully they'll play tougher but this is probably a loss.
@Baltimore - They beat em once and the ratbirds sure aren't looking any better lately.
Houston - Houston at home is definitely winnable
@Arizona - good chance for a win
@Jets - great chance for a win
Buffalo - flip a coin
@Cinci - definitely beatable
San Fran - Great chance for a home win to secure a wildcard spot at the end

They only have one game left (next week) against a team over .500. Even if they only go 4-4 over this schedule it puts them at 9-7 with an outside shot at making the playoffs.

The Browns are definitely a team I think have a shot at the wild card. Both the Jags and the Titans have question marks. I see the Jags winning 4 games of the last 8 for sure, with the San Diego and Tennessee games as tossups. So they will finish up at least 9-7 and could go as high as 11-5, depending on how well the next two weeks go. The more I like at the schedule, the more I think the Browns could finish with as many as 10 or 11 games. That's a really soft schedule.

That last spot is going to be a tossup.

As big as I am a TB fan, I think NO might sweep it out from under them if Detroit keeps winning. Have you seen Brees lately? Move over, Tom Brady.

Gosh, I'd love to see Dallas and Detroid duke it out in the playoffs. For personal reasons at least.

I like Kitna and I hope good things happen with that team. However, if he stands in the way of my Cowboys, I hope they grind his face into the dust.

No Paelos, you don't like the Cowboys, right? RIGHT?!

 :uhrr:

 :awesome_for_real: How bout them Cowboys!

I've had to put up with Kornheiser in the sports section of the Washington Post for the past 10+ years, so I am glad to share my pain with the rest of you.  I have no idea who likes him, perhaps other old, whiney men?  I hope he gets fired throat cancer before destroying MNF forever.  Watching my beloved Steelers crush the Ravens should not have been sullied by his incessant blathering about nothing.

Anyway, speaking of unlikely teams with a shot at the playoffs, the Bills are 4-4, lost 2 of those games (to Denver and Dallas) by a total of 2 points, got beaten badly by NE (who hasn't) and PGH (not a bad loss).  Their defense has been pretty good all season, and if Lossman can get any kind of deep threat going to balance out the decent run game they have, I could see them possibly putting up 9 wins, maybe even 10, and squeezing into the WC.

I may be biased because La Gallina is a Bills fan, so I've seen a number of their games.  Personally, I'd like to see the Brownies make it, so we can whip 'em three times this season (before we get annihilated by the Pats whip the Pats on the way to a 6th title after Belichik is smote down by the Hand of Lombardi).

Was it just me, or did it seem like Jaws and Turico are starting to ignore more of Tony's questions and weird comments. I saw a few times where Tony would say something and Jaws or Turico would just go right to the stats.

Sunday vs. Jacksonville:

35 / 49, 71%
445 yards
9.1 yard avg
3 TDs to 3 WRs

In the first half, Brees was on track to break the NFL single game passing yardage record.  Since the game effectively ended at the half, it didn't happen.

When Brees starts clicking, it's stunning to watch.  There is no one receiver that he prefers, especially now that Colston is a recognized threat.  There was a lot of talk during the opening four games (all losses) that cutting Joe Horn, vocal team leader, was a death sentence on the season.  From a morale standpoint, it did not help.  From a talent standpoint, Brees has always spread the ball around and, now, at least, the loss seems bearable.  Point to one game in the next eight that New Orleans cannot win.

Please to be up keeping of the drinking of much tasty Hatorade.

We prefer it that way.

See you in December.

I think Carolina and Tampa Bay are the two teams that New Orleans can and likely WILL lose to. Chicago... maybe, if they coach like they did in the NFC champsionship game last year. St. Louis is due for a win sometime, not that I think it will be against the Saints. Yes, that's a pretty soft-looking schedule, but ask Pittsburgh how soft the Cardinals are. Both Houston and Philly can surprise, depending on which QB shows up that day.

Joe Horn wasn't any kind of loss to the Saints other than a leadership one. He has been hurt most of the last 3 seasons and didn't make that big of an on-field impact last year. He was gone a year too late, IMO.

Let's face it, the NFC is really up for grabs, with a lot of shaky teams that would be cockstabbed in the AFC. I've harped on that before. Detroit may not be for real, and Tampa is one QB injury away from total ruin with an old defense to boot. I keep expecting the Giants secondary to murder their chances in the next few weeks. Who the fuck knows which teams in the West will remember how to play football. And everybody but Atlanta has a chance to win the NFC South, again IMO.

Agreed.

Horn was not a big player in last year's on the field success, but he was certainly the team leader for the better part of this decade.

And during those four long opening weeks, no Saints player stepped up, on or off the field.  It was obviously a mental problem, not a lack of ability, and the feeling was that losing Joe Horn had meant losing that one player who could break the team out of the losing mentality.

Yes, Tampa could certainly beat NO, but Tampa has taken on the role that Atlanta dropped this year of being the Team That Every Saint's Fan and Player Wants to Eviscerate Publicly.

That counts for a lot. 

Remember that Monday Night game last year?  That's what I'm referring to.

And to even suggest that St. Louis, with that idiot Haslett running what they refer to, jokingly I hope, as a 'defense', is pure horeshit.

Not sure about what Hatorade I was spewing, I actually think I said that Brees is a bona fide badass lately and pointed to another team other than my favorite to make the playoffs over them, silly.  :oh_i_see:

Aww, no I wasn't implying that you were partaking of the Hatorade.

I was glad to see someone noticed that Brees had an unbelievable day.

Mostly the national media that loves to hate on the Saints.

I'm pointing at you, Chris Collinsworth.

The national media hates on the Saints because they went 0-4 to start the season and they stopped checking on them. Little do they know they are a .500 team now tied for second in their division. The media simply puts teams in a box after one month of play and they never let them out again. Saints - suck, Giants - suck, Browns - suck. Nevermind that these teams are contenders now, because you don't hear about them much in the national media. Well, except the Giants, but they just seem to want to question Eli Manning's abilities as a leader all the time.

National media and people who owned Drew Brees in Fantasy Football. What idiot gives up on Brees and drops him after 4 games!?

This idiot RIGHT HERE. :tantrum:

OH WAS THAT YOU HAEM!?   :oh_i_see:

Crothcpheasant. :angryfist:

Hahaa Brees just got traded into my lineup in the Secondary Fantasy league here.

Can't wait to see how badly he does now, seeing every QB I've had on my team has seemed cursed.

Take it back! Take it back!

Dammit, Derek Anderson needs to remember that while Winslow and Edwards can make all sorts of crazy circus catches, they are physically incapable of catching a perfectly thrown ball right in the letters.

BWAHAHAHAHA

So far Brees is worth a whole -1.53 to my gimpy fantasy team, with 2 interceptions, a sack, and no 68 yards of passing... DOH
Vs St Louis?

I knew he wouldn't perform well, whether I said anything or not. It all has to do with leading my team.

Although worth noting is that the QB I was up against in the Secondary Bat Country League has Farve who is trouncing the Vikings defense (Yay my defense is cursed too!).

Football is fun.

As a St. Louis fan who's been suffering all season, I greatly enjoyed all the posts on this last page :evil:

This is why I never post that my team has a guaranteed win in their future, because you can look like a complete cuntflap after the fact ;)

As much as that may be true, it's against my nature to NOT talk smack. It helps that I'm mainly a Spurs and Cowboys fan though.

Colts lose...and Vinateri is actually not a robot.

6 INTs :-o

Fucking kickers.  This week was weird.  If I end up losing the picks $$ league I'm in, this week will probably be the one I can point to. 

I think I can make a 29 yard field goal.  I suppose that's what they get for coaching like they had already won the game.

Thing is, you couldn't make that field goal in a game situation. You certainly couldn't make 11/12. That's all Vinateri did, he made 11/12. Too bad that miss happened at a hideous time on a bad yardage.

I deserved that.

That loss was atrocious on a level that only the Saints could achieve.

Thank god for Josh Cribbs. Without him the Browns are blown out again by the Steelers. He returned one kick for a TD, a second inside the 10 , and gave the Browns a short field to work with almost all day.

I still have my hopes that they will make the playoffs via a wild card but they are about 6-7 guys on defense away from making a play-off run. The number of 3rd and longs they gave up was just sad. Almost made me put my foot through the TV. Very glad I wasn't drinking the 480th time the let Big Ben rush for 16 yards and pick up a third & long.

The O-Line looked damn fine again (at least in pass protection) against the Steelers though, even without McKinney. That made me very happy.

You're telling me. This whole goddamn season has been weird. Mostly unpredictable.

The Giants lost, and at least that one was predictable. Manning has THREE fucking delay of game penalties? Holy shit, looks like the Coughlins are back. I expect to see the Giants team fold in the second half yet again, maybe limping into the playoffs to be beaten handily in the first round. Dallas just continues to roll over people.

How the fuck did Washington and Detroit lose those games? Fuck you, Kurt Warner, for putting up big numbers right after I drop you in the fantasy league. Cockwhistler. Green Bay rolls over Minnesota AND hurts Adrian Peterson. Green Bay says "You're welcome" to the rest of the league if he's out for more than a week. The Pack has pretty much sewn up the NFC North, IMO. The NFC West and South are fucking joke divisions. The Saints get dickslapped by the Rams... how the fuck could they let that happen AT HOME?

The Colts-Chargers game was fucking twilight zone material. There is no way a World Championship team should lose a game where their defense only gives up 1 TD. The special teams were a nightmare. And where did the Chargers defense come from? Were they embarrassed so badly last week they decided they actually wanted to play this week? But how sad is it that the Chargers get 6 INT's and STILL have to rely on a most automatic kicker in the league missing a goddamn chip shot? I mean, he could have clipped a toenail and gotten the clipping over the bar. Probably serves them right for trying to act like they were going for it on 4th down. Don't get cocky, assholes. Had Harrison been available in this game, it would have been over long before that. Manning kept acting like Harrison WAS in the game. How many fucking times can you toss a perfect pass 50 yards downfield and watch Moorehead or Thorpe shit the bed before you realize they aren't going to make those catches?

St. Louis barely let the Saints on the field in the first half.  They went on a ridiculous time killing drive between the first and second quarters and wore the Saints' defense down to nothing.  When the offense finally did get on the field, it wasn't long enough to let the defense recover.

Brees throwing two interceptions was the game killer.  If I recall, one converted to a TD and the other a FG.  That ten points would have won the game.  By the time the Saints began to rally, it was too late.

And the final score is not indicative of the game.  At one point, St. Louis was three scores ahead.  It wasn't until late that Peyton finally (About 7 games too late, imo) started to call plays like he was coaching a losing team (which he is and has been all season.)  When he did start calling desperate plays, they were working.  Olindo Mare, may his soul rot in eternal damnation, actually made two beautiful onside kicks that were just barely recovered by St. Louis.

But after that second failed onside, even though it was a one score game, there was no time left.

The Saints are playing like a team who deserves to win.  From game one against the Colts, they have come out and played like the game should be handed to them.  There have been several times, late into losing games, that Peyton has run the ball, punted or gone for a failed field goal attempt.  He's playing like the game and the season are well in control, and as sad as the NFC South is, it looks like the reigning champions aren't going to get a shot at defending their title.

On the flipside, this was the first time I've seen Peyton and the Saints play like winning a losing game was important.

Little bit late.

Oh man I loved that curb stomping that the pack gave to the vikes. You know the stars are aligned for you when favre throws a pass right into the hands of two defenders who promptly knock the ball right to one of our players for a TD. Pretty funny that not only did we hold them to next to no running yardage but we also broke their runner for a bit. Pack should have the NFC north lead locked if we don't really crumble in the last part of the year.

I could have used some more help from Purple Jesus, but Favre saved my ass in a couple of leagues. Fun rooting for one of the few players left who is actually older than I am!

So Wayabvpar, guess I have to cheer the seahawks on now  :uhrr:

In two of my fantasy leagues, I've been rolling out Tony Romo and Terrell Owens. Needless to say, the last 3 weeks have been blowout wins. Woo!  :awesome_for_real:

I've decided that everytime I hear in the sports news that McNabb said something stupid, he'll get 4+ TD's the next game.

It's not just the Saints, it's more or less everyone in that division. Collinsworth is a fucking tool when it comes to commentary. I want to stab my eyes every time he comes on set.

Fucker.

Oh, and what happened against the Rams, eh?  :uhrr:

That had to be the stupidest Monday night matchup I've seen in a long time. SF shouldn't be allowed to take the field until they sit in a corner and think about what they've done.

Next Monday they are showing LSU v SF, right?

 :awesome_for_real:

Apparently, whoever put the Monday night schedule together in November had a stroke beforehand, because it's some of the shittiest football you could imagine.

Nov. 5th - Baltimore v. Pittsburgh: It was a 38-7 curbstomping by the Steelers. The Ravens are now on a 3 game skid and under .500 on the season.
Nov. 12th - SF v. Seattle: Look Ma! No points! 24-0 Seattle. Even the announcers were making fun of SF after this game.

Nov. 19th - Tennesee v. Denver: The Western divisions in both the NFC and AFC are really shitty this year, with the leader at 5-4. Denver can't even manage that. Tennessee is in the unfortunate division with the Colts, so they have no shot at winning, but they are at least 6-3 and have a great shot at a wildcard berth if they can go 10-6. This is probably going to be the best matchup in terms of fairly balanced opponents this month.

Nov. 26th - Miami v. Pittsburgh: Seriously? We're putting Miami on MNF coast to coast? The team that hasn't won a game? WTF are you people thinking??? Everyone knows Pittsburgh is going to stomp a hole in their asses at home, and I don't even expect Miami to take the field out of sheer terror. Rather, they will select fans from the stadium and stage a scrimmage for charity.

Great another Miami game.  And I had so much fun watching the one in London, maybe if they put in the 20 foot Jason Taylor robot it would be a little entertaining... probably not. 

Edit:  I'm beginning to wish they could revoke a teams Monday night game based on performance during the season.  Looks like that week is a wash anyway as all the good games are gonna be on Thanksgiving.  Can't think of any Sunday games that week that would be any better sadly. 

You guys may have forgotten that when MNF went to ESPN, it became the new Sunday Night Football, where you could regularly see the 1-10 Bengals every few years.

NBC paid too much to not be the premiere night game of the week, and the league doesn't really want to put good games on cable in prime time.  Well, unless it's on their own network.

So the reality of the MNF change hit me last night. We were out at my mom's for dinner...and NO MNF, because she lives in 1965 (no ESPN/cable/etc).

I got stuck watching Dancing with the Stars? for a couple hours. I put a question mark after stars because the only people I knew on the show were Tom the host and Marie Osmond, neither of whom are exactly 'stars' in my lexicon.

I'd even watch SF get cornholed than that crap.

I sorta watched it but mostly drank and played some TF2, it helps. 

I miss the days when SF was a great team.  As a Cowboys uber fan those were some awesome championship games back in the day, even when we were on the losing end. 

Sunday night football basically is what the old monday night football used to be. The new monday night games have just been horrible all year so far.

I thought part of the deal with ESPN getting MNF was that they'd have floating games towards the end of the year so they could make sure the prime time matches weren't kneel and bob fests. Or maybe that was how NBC worked the Sunday games, because the Sunday Night games are about 100 times better matchups.

That Tennessee/Denver game will be a brutal runfest. Nothing but up the gut, up the gut, up the gut, with the occasional shitty pass and scramble. It'll end up 13-9 and last 1 hour and 15 minutes because the clock will never stop running.

NBC.  For example, this weekends CHI-SEA game was supposed to be on SNF, but it just got bumped down to 1pm.

ESPN got the shaft then, just like ABC was getting it before they dumped MNF. Hope they paid less.

Which in turn completely fucked over my plans to get sloppy drunk and take Monday off, leaving me a two day work week. Now I have to try to get sloppy drunk by 1 pm, which isn't as easy as it sounds. Chugging booze at 8am is fucking unnatural unless you have been drinking all night all ready. I just pray that the weather isn't too shitty- I was at both the SF (torrential rain followed by nearly hurricane force winds) and the GB (snow) games last season, and it sucked. Well, seeing Brett Favre play in the snow was kinda cool at least.

Hey, the first MNF game, NO v IND wasn't bad. How soon you all forget!

Also, the last DEN v PIT game was good too. Buncha haters on this here board.  :oh_i_see:

They scheduled it because SF beat Seattle twice last year and the 49ers were supposed to be better than they were last year (better defense, one more year of experience for Alex Smith, etc.).

Well, yeah, schedules are made before the season.  The reason better games are on SNF now is partly due to the money, but also because they can't add flex scheduling to Monday nights - it would be too disruptive.  Having it on Sundays means it's just a swing of a few hours for the teams and, more importantly, ticket buyers.

True but I think is bad move for NFL… …football on Sunday night, people are already footballed out after watching doubleheader (and maybe Sat college). I love football but after watching daytime action I don't really tune in for Sunday night unless it a team I like. Plus Madden + Michaels combo is annoying.

Plus lots of people don't have cable (yes, they're out there) and can't watch MNF now.

HOLY FUCK, THE BROWNS WON!!

I left the TV in disgust when they "lost" and half the team was in the locker room.  What an insane finish.  Watch this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80448909

Any guesses on the outcome of the Pats v Bills?  Let see, it's the end of the half and NE scored with 22 seconds on the clock when they were already up by 21...

I'm guessing 56 - 10.

This is the Belichick we're talking about here -- it'll be 73 - 10.

I'm assuming that they will break with tradition and actually sit Brady and Moss eventually.  I could be wrong though.

4 & 1. Up 28.  Throwing.

CLASSY.  :awesome_for_real:

You stay classy, New England.

 :awesome_for_real:


Whatever. Stop them. This is the NFL, the premier league for football.

Cause you know, one more turnover and it'll be a 21 point game and it's only the 3rd quarter!

They've got every right to run up the score.  I mean, they were caught cheating after winning multiple playoff games and super bowls by small margins!  How incredibly rude of the NFL to enforce the rules (with a slap on the wrist).

I'm too lazy to green that.  Fuck them.  They got a 'tsk tsk' from Goodell when they deserve an asterisk next to each super bowl win, and then they act like they've been incredily wronged.  And the sports media can't stop fellating them long enough to say anything.       

Another 4 & 1 on the Buffalo 10. Kick a FG? Nah go for it!

Edit: Now we'll see if Belichick thinks a 39 point lead is large enough against the 31st ranked offense to risk taking Brady out of the game.

A garbage time helmet-to-knee shot would be fine with me.

Is Tom Brady reallly still in the game? (I'm not watching it on TV right now)

NM: Belichick did take him out (finally). The stats didn't update until Cassel threw a pass.

6 games to go and the Giants have emerged as the never say die team in the NFC right now. They both have to play one extremely hard opponent and a few more tough divisional games. I won't be happy until Dallas puts up a 3 game lead on them.

The Cowboys are effectively 3 games up on the Giants ATM since they own the first tiebreaker against the Giants (head to head play) if they happen to end up tied with the best records in the division at the end of the regular season.

Edit: clarified tie

I didn't even watch the Pats game. I knew better than to think Buffalo would do shit to stop them. And yes, going for it on two 4th down plays when you are up by over 20 points... that's the definition of douchebagging. Granted, it's up to Buffalo to stop them and they obviously can't. But fuck me, that's just fruit basket on the chin insulting.

The Colts look lost without Marvin Harrison, and apparently Tony Ugoh. They aren't giving Peyton the kind of time he's used to, and the wideouts can't get open. Vinatieri is completely off his corn flake. Yet they still managed to win, because the Chiefs just aren't that good on offense without LJ. They looked better than they should have, but with Freeney missing as well, the Colts' D Line is a bit weaker than normal. Still, if the Colts don't at least get Harrison back soon, they are in danger of making it a nutcutting season. Good thing for them the Western division is so shitty, they might still escape with the #2 or #3 seed depending on how the Steelers do.

The Cowboys just took care of business. There were some throws Romo not only had no fucking business throwing, he sure as shit had no business completing them. Terrell Owens gets 4 TD's, and every damn one of them was a complete lack of coverage. I mean, Crayton, Witten and Hurd aren't bad receivers, but nothing so good as to leave Owens single-covered, or to play his as soft as they did. The Skins safeties just treated him like some scrub receiver and he just assrape them. Hell, two of those TD's were the exact same play and the exact same idiot safeties just let him go past them without even looking. And Gibbs completely gives up on the running game way too early. 3rd quarter, down by 8 points, pound the ball with Portis and make sure you don't put Romo back on the field. Instead, he insists on continuing to throw the ball almost every down. Playing the entire 4th quarter with nothing but pass plays ensures that Campbell's going to throw an INT. Dallas's secondary isn't great, but it's good enough to stop that.

The more I watch the Cowboys, the more I think the game with the Packers could go either way. The Cowboys running game is better than the Packers, but I think they are about even on pass offense. I'd put the both defensive lines and linebacker corps at even, with the Cowboys maybe having a slight edge on linebackers, but the Packs D line being better rushers. I think the Pack's secondary is just better than the Cowboys' secondary though. Next Thursday's game in Dallas is going to be an AWESOME game. Home-field advantage may be the only deciding factor.

Unfortunately, thanks to the Steelers losing to the FUCKING JETS, and the Colts being so ordinary without Harrison, I'm not sure anyone can stop the goddamn Pats. Which means another boring ass Super Bowl. That's just my midseason prediction, one which I really hope does not come true.

Great move by NBC to put that riveting game on instead of the Seattle/Chicago game. I am sure the ratings were fantastic in the greater Masshole area. The rest of the country tuned out midway through the 1st quarter.

Finally the Browns DON'T get fucked!

Jamal finally figured out the secret, he's just gotta be more careful in the future to not make it so obvious.

(http://ecards.live.advance.net/cgi-bin/nph-ec-photo.cgi?photo=/cleve/images/7638/19sBROWNSb.jpg)

Ya dude, that cracked me up.

I was laughing so hard and no one else saw it, Jamal Lewis High-Fived the fucking Referee.

Haemmy, don't underestimate the loss of Freeney from an already injury-stricken team. Not only do they lose their premiere pass rush guy (though he's so fast you can get runs in on him), but most teams have been double-teaming him, loading up his side. Having that extra offensive guy is a boon to every team they play.

Imo Colts are out of the running now. If they can get everyone healthy by the playoffs, maybe. The NFL got much less interesting in the last two weeks, NE has stepped into total domination mode.

I don't buy this shit about running up the score. It's pro ball, they're playing with a chip on their shoulders, and it's fun to see. Great practice on running 4th down plays. Madden made a good point at the end about it being worse that Buffalo was still trying to score with a couple minutes left in the game and they had no hope of winning.

Freeney's loss is big, but I think they can cope. The rest of the D-Line is still pretty damn good, they just picked up Simeon Rice and they can scheme pretty well on defense. After all, they won most of the regular season games last year with a defense that was letting everyone run all over them. Now, if they lose Sanders (and thus their run defense) as well, yeah, they might just be done.

But really, once the Colts lost to the Pats, the season was pretty much over anyway. No one is playing at the Pats level. No one. I'm not even sure any team in the NFL is capable of playing at that level currently.

I think Dallas, Green Bay, and Indy all have a legitimate chance to beat the Pats. Each has a decent to solid running game and dangerous weapons in the passing game to hurt the opposition. Defenses on each of the three teams also are good to excellent.

I'd like to see a GB/NE Super Bowl. I think it'd be a hell of a game.

Indy won't be able to beat them at Foxborough with all the injuries they have now. Green Bay has two very good corners and may be able to shut down Moss but it's not clear if they can cover all the rest of them. Dallas's corners aren't as good as GB's but they have a better pass rush and right now Brady has obscene amounts of time to throw.

That does not compute. Have you WATCHED the Pack try to run the ball this year? Solid is not what I would use to describe their running game.

Eh, their running game has steadily improved and the #1 back now (Grant) looks like he's decent enough… …doesn't have to be dominant, just enough to keep the D honest…

Dallas still has the most points scored against the Pats -- and that's with them making the mistake of heavily focusing on defense. I said this before, but I think if they just put that strategy aside, just concentrate on racking up points, and especially running Marion, then they're the only ones who have a chance of making New England nervous.

If Dallas plays the Pats again, I can assure you they will focus on a shootout. They know that they can't possibly stop them, so the only thing to do is to control the clock on offense and hope you get the ball last.

I said decent to solid. The hell are you doing butchering my posts? Doesn't that say decent to solid or am I imagining it?  :headscratch:

I'm sorry if you have missed the games since Ryan Grant has started, but the Pack have done a pretty decent job of running the ball.

We'll have to disagree on that one. I still think they are having to pass too much because even Grant isn't giving them the kind of running game I consider decent.

He ran for over 100 yards against the top ranked rushing defense two games ago. That's decent in my book.

Another sloppy Cleveland win, but I'm still happy because this sentence contains the words "Cleveland" and "win" and they aren't separated by "didn't".

Schaub threw many, many bad balls in that game.  Cleveland still lacks a killer instinct and if they get a wild card bid, I'm hard pressed to think of an AFC playoff team they could beat on the road (Denver or San Diego, maybe).  Best hope is the slim chance that Pittsburgh loses a couple more in addition to the Pats game, and we take the division and play Denver/San Diego at home. 

Herm Edwards is a terrible coach.  :ye_gods:

Now to hand out the  :awesome_for_real: helmet stickers.

Broncos special teams  :awesome_for_real:

Cardinals defense :awesome_for_real:

Neil Rackers  :awesome_for_real:

Eli Manning  :awesome_for_real:

Entire Ravens team  :awesome_for_real:

Some coach should actually have those made up and affixed to helmets during weekday practice as marks of shame.   :-)

Why do people kick to Hester? :ye_gods:

I don't get the "running up the score thing". I've said it before in the thread, I no shit about the game, but why would you kick? If you go for it you either score 7 or have them pinned down inside the five. If you kick you score and best case scenario you have them at the 20 with space behind them.

I would call that win anything BUT sloppy. I felt that was the Browns most complete win in the last few years. The texans this year are actually pretty decent and the Browns D finally stepped up and played a good game.

Brandon McDonald looked awesome stepping in for the injured Wright. Schaub new the Browns had a rookie corner getting his first start and kept throwing at McDonald all game. He not only covered their pro-bowl receiver (Johnson) but he also managed to come down with a pick. Pretty damn impressive.

The D also finally kept a runner under 100 yards. That's a huge victory for the NFL's worst run defense!

Anderson looked like the only player on the team who was a little bit "sloppy". He had a couple poor throws and the interception was just awful but it looked like he might have gotten hit when he threw it. Everyone else had a pretty damn good game. Including a steady diet of Jamal Lewis pulling down 3-5 yards per carry.

I think you missed Gus Frerotte. 4th and 1 from the 1, down 5, 30 seconds left. How about a fumbled snap?  :uhrr:

FAAAAAVVVVVVV-RRRRAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

Awesome game that was nowhere near as close as the score would indicate. It made sitting at my mom's house while my wife cooked fun. I didn't even see most of the Dallas game, but it sure looked statistically like an ordinary game for Romo. Ordinary is just fine against the Jets, of course. The Falcons were almost as bad as the Jets, though.

The only game I bothrered to watch was the Panthers/Saints and that was a fucking awful game. For the first two quarters, both teams trying to outsuck each other. Sorry, sorry game. Why is David Carr still allowed to start in this league? I always chalked up his poor performances to the Texans' shitty O line, but he sucks even with a decent line. Carolina doesn't seem to know what they want to do offensively. They can't run for shit, which is disappointing, as I thought DeAngelo Williams would be as good as Addai. He isn't.

I kept checking in on the Pats/Eagles game, and I'll be damned if the Iggles didn't give them a game. But A.J. Feeley vs. Tom Brady? I know who I'm betting on, no matter how big the spread. At least Philly beat that insane spread, and I'm sure the bookies made a killing on people taking New England and the points.

That one cost me money.  ANGER.

Gus Frerotte  :awesome_for_real:

I'd like to give AJ Feely one too for that long bomb attempt when they were in field goal position, but the guy had a hell of a game.  Why would you want to give the Pats back the ball with 4 minutes remaining anyhow.  :headscratch:

Almost silently, the Bucs are 7-4. Holy Christ?

Their offense is floundering, but the old Buccaneer defense that won a championship a few years back seems to have returned.

7-4 in a shit shit shitty division at that. The Giants appear to have begun their inevitable second half meltdown. I would almost put money on the Giants not making the playoffs, except the NFC has so many marginal teams, they could slip in again, only to be humiliated in the first round. Again.

The Saints have a shot at making the playoffs, but it won't mean they are a good team. Well, they are a good team, they just happen to play like shit most games.

The Cardinals game was funny:

* …bad clock management, otherwise they should have had 1-2 shots more at end zone.

* …delay of game on FG attempt which was successful

* …success attempt goes boink!

* …Warner holds on to the ball too long in his own end zone.

Sean Taylor passes away. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/11/27/bc.fbn.obit.taylor.ap/index.html) I wonder if we'll find out in the future that he accidentally shot himself in the leg.

The Sean Taylor thing sounds terrible, like the kid had learned how not to fuck up his life and some dumbass comes along and shoots him.

I'm glad I only glanced over the Steelers/Dolphins game last night. Fuck's sake, that was a snooze fest. With 4 more MNF games to go, let's see what's on tap.

New England/Baltimore - BLEARG. I can't see any game the Pats play this year (other than maybe the Steelers game) being in anyway interesting. Maybe the Ravens will hold them to less than 30 points, but they won't score more than 10. BO-RING.
New Orleans/Atlanta - Two teams that will likely do everything in their power to hand the other team the game.
Chicago/Minnesota - Minnesota will run 35 times, both QB's will throw 10 INT's and Devin Hester will win the game for the Bears.
Denver/San Diego - This may be the only interesting game left on the schedule, since it'll likely be for the division. It won't be a very fun game to watch, though, unless both QB's pick it up (which is possible).

I am so looking forward to Thursday night's game. Satellite 4TW.

The hate. It burns.

I caught the last quarter of the MNF game, was half-paying attention because a) it sucked and 2) I was playing guitar. Mostly wanted to see if the Steelers got beat so I could bust my boss's chops (HUGE Steelers fan). As it turns out....can stil bust balls on the outcome. And it was interesting watching play in that field, the kickoff or punt or whatever that stuck 4" in the turf was hilarious.

I hope they take a closer look at the dude who shoulder-stomped Ricky Williams.

Teams should get a 30 point handicap playing the Pats.

So Indy and Philly both win by 20someodd points?  :roll:

No, so everyone can complain when the pats score 90 points.

Anybody want to toss out predictions for the Dallas - GB game? I'm going Dallas on top 34-28

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/lonestar627/Misc/calvin_greenbay.gif)


[edit] On second thought, that glitter is quite lame!  :uhrr:

Pardon me, a female Cowboy loving friend sent me that.

Without Woodson it's going to be tough to slow down the Cowboys.

This is how you kick to Hester.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-OgcokgNbQ)  Should make Way proud.

I think the Cowboys will win, but I'm afraid what the Packers 4 and 5 WR sets are going to do to that Dallas secondary.

qft.

Fuck the Steelers.
Fuck the Pats.
Fuck the Eagles.

Anyone who has to attend a sports bar to watch his/her team play on Sunday should understand the 2nd two, the Steelers just piss me off because they are a dirty team who keep drafting college players I like just to piss me off.  Also, fuck them.

I'm afraid of rooting for Green Bay.  I don't want to be the guy who starts rooting for them, causing them to lose :(

go Favre! 

I think the Packers can win. Woodson is a game time decision, and his presence will make a HUGE difference. But even without him, I think the Packers have a better defense, because that front 4 can put some serious pressure on Romo without needing to blitz. Aaron Kampman like a mofo, y0. I don't think either team will score 30 points, though.

Of course, if Dallas decides to feed them a steady diet of Marion Barber, keeping Favre off the field, I'm not sure the Pack can hold up. 

Going to be an interesting game, no doubt.

Both teams use the pass to set up the run (at least from the Cowboys games I've seen this year), and whether or not Woodson plays will be huge.  Even if he does play, I expect Dallas to go after him early to see how effective he'll be.

I think the Packers pull it off though, by virtue of Favre alone.  This is a big game, and Favre has been in more of those and is used to that sort of pressure.  Romo?  Not so much.

That said, go Packers!

I hope the pack wins but I am expecting it to go the other way. Win or lose though it should be a good game to watch. I think the pack can win but this is deffinatly our toughest game to date this year.

So, what's the record for "Worst Combined QB Rating" in a game, anyways?

(http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/28/eli_rex_showdown_5.png)

I have it written on a 10 dollar bill I bet my friend, 34-31 GB. Sorry TO, you just couldn't get open against their secondary and it was up to your other teammates to bail you out.  :grin:

Cowboys will win.

You sir, have been hitting the pipe. Even if TO gets shut down, nobody has scored over 24 points against Dallas since the Pats game. And Green Bay ain't the Pats.

Butbut.... NYG in the opener?

Also, I hate the Cowboys.  :uhrr:

What atrocious officiating… …unbelievable… …definitely looked like refs had money wagered on Cowboys or some sort of fix was in… …the PI calls and non-calls, legitimate pick that was ruled "down", etc.… …WTF is the NFL doing sticking subpar team on biggest game…

I would assume most of the NFL Network games get the crap officials. Plus it was a Thursday night game.

Cable was blocked out in my city, sports bars were packed, so we went to some horsetrack where everyone else there was 50+ years old. Would have been depressing, but luckily, Favre played and looked and limped away like a 50 year old himself in that game. Man, the thrill is gone on that guy for sure.... Though I hope he gets better.

Ain't shit wrong with the officiating either. Packers D was sloppy as hell. Game over.

I didn't see any of it, but my prediction of the total score was a whopping 4 points off. So, I'm pleased.

I saw the highlights this morning on Sports Center and when ESPN is jumping on the poor officiating band-wagon you know it was truly awful.

That pick-that-wasn't-a-pick was just terrible. For those that didn't see it, TO catches a pass, Al Harris runs over and grabs it away from TO, TO steps out of bounds, refs blow whistly and claim the play was dead and give TO the catch and position where he stepped out of bounds WITHOUT the ball. Fucking retarded.

The pass interference was also shitty but depending on the refs angle I could see why it was called. Although the fact the guy with the best angle signaled incidental contact and the guy with the worse angle wanted the flag (and got it) that's some shitty work by the head official.

I didn't see Green Bay challenge any calls. Dallas made a challenge though, and got rejected.


... Just saying.

You can't challenge what happens after the ref blows the whistle even if the play SHOULD NOT have been over.

Y but if they made that call, then they have to flag Dallas for PI on subsequent series… …I really hate PI penalties in general, wish they were reviewable or 15 yard (plus auto 1st down) only… …it was a bullshit call, announcers on radio and TV (I heard both, watched the game on DVR with family who didn't know score but I caught radio broadcast on drive home…) denounced it loudly and brazenly… …but on the big PI call, GB defender was playing ball and got legs intertwined when Dallas receiver stopped… …if that's PI, you could call PI on just about every play… …it was bullshit…

GB did win a challenge and lost another one, so they were unable to review a later call that was questionable too…

Still, even with backup QB who's never really even played a game, minus key D pieces (KGB & Woodson) and the refs stacked against them, GB still almost pulled off a 'W'…

Eh, I'll just let it sink in, I guess. This has nothing to do with officiating and more to do with you poor folks being under the illusion that you even had a chance to begin with.

Frankly I kinda expected the pack to lose but I feel better about the future after this loss. Our backup qb came in cold and took over our offense and ran it up and down the field vs a very rough team. That speaks well for our future once favre finally decides to hang ye olde cleats up.

It was a close and exciting game as much as I may bitch at the bad calls that night I think the cowboys were the better team. Had our D been fully healthy I think we would have won.

Looking directly at the back of a WR helmet as you simultaneously grab his shoulder and run into his legs is not, "playing the ball."  Gumble just would not shut the hell up about it though and so it was replayed on every little break for the rest of the game.  Personally I could see it going either way but when he held him up slightly up by the shoulder that could have been enough as is for a really anal ref, the leg trip was just icing.

As far as the interception that wasn't, hell I was out of the room but it looks like TO left sorry for him and decided to give him the ball in the end zone so it's all far now   :awesome_for_real:

Cowboys won and that's all I care about. 

I do hope Farve plays next week though.

Ph3@r Josh Brown.

Now that's not necessary at all.

The Pass interference call was bullshit from the word go. There were at least 4 or 5 non-calls by both sides that the refs never even flagged, and yet the one big ass interference call that pretty much sealed the game was a completely shit call. Legs tangling together does NOT make pass interference. The broadcasters in this case got it very much right. It was a shitty shit shit shit officiating job on all levels by that crew.

As for not having a chance, here's what actually happened. Green Bay got outcoached, plain and simple. For some stupid reason, they decided that going deep every single drive was the only way to win, so Favre starts chucking. That's not Green Bay's game, they do short, sharp passes and then run after the catch. They cut you to death with the short pass, mixed with an occasional run. Then when the defense decides to blitz or play press, THEN they throw the occasional long ball. But when Favre was in, they did nothing but throw long shit and Dallas just sat back and double and tripled the long guy. As a result, Favre looked very much like shit until he got hurt.

If the Packers had no chance to begin with, losing Favre would have meant the game turned into a rout. But it didn't. Instead, Aaron Rodgers sliced the Dallas D to pieces. AARON FUCKING RODGERS. Now hopefully, that means Rodgers is actually the real deal, a worthy successor to Favre. But it also had to do with the fact that McCarthy actually started coaching to the team's strength again, short passes with lots of YAC, quick runs and such. And when they did that, the backup QB almost won them the game. Had the Pack actually gone for the 4th down, we might be talking about the Packers winning.

But the Packers D looked like shit, and were never able to stop the Cowboys. One of those long passes Crayton (on 3rd and 19 way back in Dallas terrirtory), Harris just stopped covering. And there were multiple times that guys got open and shouldn't have been. Dallas O Line kept the Packers from sacking or really even pressuring Romo. And despite all that, Dallas still only won by 10, and really shouldn't have won by that much, if not for that bullshit inteference call. They'd have been better with Woodson, but even so, they blew some coverages and lacked the pressure they needed to hold the Cowboys down. They were flat outplayed on the defensive side.

Let's see Romo get knocked out of the game in the 2nd quarter and see if the Cowboys backup can do as well against the Green Bay D as Rodgers did against the fucking Cowboys D. Then we can talk about who had a chance to begin with.

Yeah, it is. If there's anything I loathe in sports talk, it's "wah, the refs!" I will from that point on rub it in just how much of a fucking loser you are. Especially with the NFL, which calls and reviews plays more than any sport out there.

I could almost agree with that until I think about how many rule changes have happened for the better because referees have blown important calls. Maybe you don't remember shit like Bert Emmanuel against the Rams a few years back, but I do.

When you have such a game-changing decision such as a 70 yard PI call, I'd be all for it being reviewed. I watched a USF guy get all but tackled the other day against UConn and there was no call.  :oh_i_see:

I think that turning a blind eye to this conversation and calling people "fucking losers" for debating it is silly. I can make a pretty good argument for reviewing big PI calls. (Then again I'm pretty sure I could argue your side too, Stray.)

Anybody not a Cowboys fan totally disagrees with that assessment… …the TV announcers, the radio announcers (Stockton & Dennis Green), ESPN, etc.… …even the jerk faced Collinsworth, who was a NFL WR and is always partial to WR perspective on those sorts of plays…

And this Cowboys fan says fuckemall   :grin:   The defender knew what we was doing.

Wow, when did you get off the fucking meds?

Every team I love has a fucking asterisk next to it's name. You can't blame me.

I'm a Cubs fan. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Had woodson and KGB been healthy I think we would have stomped them. Our second stringer in the safety was just not up to covering TO. The other stuff like the bad calls hurt but without our some of our main defensive players I did not expect to win.

The Cubs never win. I'm not sure what comparison you're trying to make.  :-)

Your team actually wins a few times every decade. My team can barely manage to fap their way to be swept meekly in the playoffs, and hasn't been to a championship game since 1945. An asterisk is hardly anything to get pissy about.

My attitude comes from being a Spurs fan. I'm just getting used to the Cowboys winning again, so it isn't because of them. The Spurs are 3 time champs now, but fans of opposing teams still have to be downers about something or other. You'd think that the Spurs accomplishing dynasty status would let the possibility of any of their teams simply not being better would sink in, but no. It's all a conspiracy. Blah, blah, blah, the "NBA wants them to win" (to promote basketball "internationally"...whatever the fuck that means). Not all that different from conspiracies surrounding the Cowboys ("America's Team"), and how it's good for ratings.

Sure, I'd take an asterisk before a curse any day! -- But it's pretty frustrating nonetheless. And if I'm getting too shitty here, it's because I've already done my fair share of analysis before with people. It never did any good, and I don't care to entertain anything these days other than "Sorry. We win. You lose".

Cowboys win, don't hate.

Fucking Browns.

Played a horrible fucking game the entire way and they still find a way to almost pull it out but then they don't. Fuckers.

Congrats to Arizona for sucking just slightly less yesterday.

Actually, they should have got the "W", that last play should have been ruled a force-out… …but the refs were not permitted to review that aspect of the play (why the fsck not, I have no earthly idea, that is definitely a rule change that is needed, to at least make force-out/non force-out reviewable…)…

And my Steelers were recipients of ref love too… …worse, it looked like Bengals had a TD wiped that they didn't issue a challenge on…

Senility is a bitch, Joe Gibbs. 

I was laughing so damn hard.

It's sad… …Joe needs to step aside, he got nothing to be ashamed of, with the rings he already has… …but no excuse for not knowing that rule…

At least Gibbs didn't try to blame anyone else, and took it all on himself. He deserves a bit of respect, even if it appears the game has passed him by. Terrible way to lose a game, especially after the Taylor thing.

Indy took care of business, in a game that shouldn't have been that close. Of course, the Jags always play Indy close. Garrard finally threw an INT. Oh and Reggie Wayne is the motherfucking MAN.

The Pittsburgh game was a thoroughly boring game. Palmer seemed completely unable to put his passes on target, and either he or the coaches refused to go to an underneath passing game.

I wonder how low the ratings will be on tonight's MNF game. Patriots asshumping the dessicated corpse of the Ravens' offense. Scintillating.

I see your Wayne and raise you Lofa Tatupu. Pure stud.

So, the Bears defense forces turnovers, Rex plays really well, and the season is over.  I give up.  :uhrr:

The refs in the Browns game were just horrible all around. It's actually really hard to say who got fucked worse.

Both challenges by AZ should have been overruled (Pool's int and Braylon's TD) but they let both of those stand after review.

Then the Browns got robbed at the end.

Not to mention the phantom head-butt by Fraser to set take away their field position at the end of the game, I rewound that on the DVR 3 times and they panned away from when it may have happened and never showed a replay, why no replay on such a critical penalty?

Add to that a horse-collar called on Pool (legit) but then the same thing clearly happens to Winslow and they don't call it. Only thing I can say there is Winslow happens to be bigger and stronger so he didn't "flop" quite as hard as the other receiver.

Reggie Bush, you rule. Thanks! :D  :uhrr:

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME five minute action where Baltimore gets anally raped by the Pats early with the FOOTBALL!

Not a bad game so far.

Please God let the Ravens win. Grant this one wish in life.

Also Tony Kornheiser needs to shut up. He's like Chris Berman calling baseball, he just invents some stupid drama and repeats it the entire game.

As someone who is now in his fourth year in New England, I add my fervent prayers to Margalis's wish.  Maybe a loss would shut up a few of the NE fans up here. 

Come on Ravens, what the fuck!

First they fumble an interception (that was intercepted by a return guy no less), then that horrible throw to 5 white jerseys? Stop choking and keep winning you dopes.

Welcome to Boller Ball.   God damn it Kyle, don't fuck this up.

Nice time out there, Brian.  :awesome_for_real: It's like they want to lose.

Wow.  I think they just did.

Ravens are melting down, but I can't blame them. Referees are handing the game to the Pats

God damn it.  :ye_gods:

Heh, farthest up kick-off in NFL history probably.

Worst timeout ever. Lol.

I love what an idiot Kornheiser is. "Tom Brady can just make that happen. Did he get lucky? Sure. Did the Ravens stop him on 4th down? Sure! But Brady can just make it happen."

Great playcalling Ravens. Throw a 15 yard pass to the middle of the field. Twice.

That entire crew is just a bunch of cheerleaders.  It's disgusting. 

Edit: GODDAMN.

Well shit. That was close. Baltimore was just basically two yds away from beating them.  :oops:

Now Kornheiser is saying that the fact that the Pats struggled against both the Ravens and Eagles is proof that they are unbeatable.

Brilliant logic.

Hey, it turns out throwing 3 passes down the middle of the field wasn't a great idea. Who would have thought?

I hate Billick so much right now.    :heartbreak: :heartbreak: :heartbreak:

Blowing kisses at Rodney Harrison was pretty good though.

You know, if they were just consistent, it would be cool… …but it sure seems like there's a ticky-tack call at a critical juncture late in the game… …especially when it's the kind of call that could be made on just about every single play…

And what's the point of review if it's not going to be used to right a wrong… …yeah, I know that it has to conclusive and all, but it's just kind of perverse when you know the same exact opposite call could have been made and then not overturned also… …and the rules have gotten so hyper-technical even the announcers are timid about weighing in, not knowing the exact rigidity of the rulebook — like if it's swirling on the fingertips, is that "control". Or is being slammed on your back and coughing up the ball is not a fumble…

…but that ill timed timeout (by Baltimore sideline) is a microcosm of Raven fortunes since winning their superbowl years ago…

Well, that sucked. I won't say the refs handed it to the Pats because the Ravens lost that game well on their own. Defensive holding is what it is, and it happened.

Try even *finding* the text of the NFL rulebook.

I thought the holding was a decent call.  I was suprised the TD reception was not OTd, but that did not really matter since even if it was the Pats would have gotten a 1st and short from the double-personal-foul.

I am starting to think the Pats may not win the SB after all.  They would be a shoe-in if they played in the South or a dome.  But an offense that cannot consistently run (and a D half of whom are AARP-eligible) against the Chargers, Jags or Steelers in Boston in January?  That's a loseable game.

Build a dome and turf in Foxboro, and they win the SB for sure.

lol @ Chargers & January.

Pittsburgh wins this weekend.

Probably my two most hated teams, so it will be nice to see one of them lose. It would be even better to see a giant sinkhole open up and swallow both of them.

...and Brady connects out of the bottom of the swirling sinkhole to Moss in the endzone, despite pressure from Satan himself in the backfield.

NE loses to NYJ.  :pedobear:

Just so happens I saw this on another forum today and bookmarked it because I was also annoyed that you can't get it on nfl.com
http://www.patscap.com/rulebook.pdf

Go Browns!  8-5.  They NEED to beat Buffalo next week, or the tiebreaks won't be kind even if they reach 10 wins. 

It could happen.  Seriously.  I never thought NE would lose a game they were 'ready' for, hence the near Eagles kill.  I think the same thing could happen in NYJ.

Fucking Tom Brady though.  God damn Monster that man.

Also, I nearly resubbed to WoW because they fucking advertised on NBC, during the fucking game.

GO COWBOYS! Leading a game for 18 seconds only matters if it's the last 18! Hell yes!

I almost feel sorry for Detroit fans.

That win deserves a double post.

I've never been so confident about a sports team ever. When Witten fumbled that ball, me and my pals just said Fuck it. They were going to drive it down again and win.

On a sidenote, I was surprised by the 10 games @ 300 yds stat Romo has. After the game, Bradshaw was saying that he only had 4 300 yarders in his entire career (edit: Wikipedia says 3 more in post season play). We all know the shit Brady is pulling off as well, so I won't get into that.. But WTF? Are these guys already playing at some legendary-level or what?

Seahawks, NFC West Champions for the 4th consecutive year.

"In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." -- Desiderius Erasmus



They are playing well, but the game is all about passing now. The rules cater to the offense to a ridiculous degree, and offenses pass A LOT more than when Bradshaw played.

Keep in mind Bradshaw never played in an offense that threw the ball as much as most normal teams do now. The Cowboys, Colts, Packers and Patriots are all very pass-happy offenses, so I'm not surprised by the 300-yard games. Romo is good, his offensive coordinator is magic, and he's got T.O. and Patrick Crayton. He'd be scary good if he also had Terry Glenn on that team. The 300-yd games doesn't really surprise me, though. All 4 of those teams mentioned throw the ball to set up the run (burning the clock when they are ahead) instead of running to setup the passing game.

I started fast-forwarding the Pats-Steelers game in the 3rd quarter. It was pretty obvious that the Steelers were just outclassed by that point. I would have done so in the Packers game, but it's nice to see the Pack dominate someone. The Colts game was just sick. I started fast-forwarding after the first quarter, then just shut off the Tivo about halftime and went and played some PotBS. Figured that was a better use of my time than watching the Indy B squad kill time against the Ravens.

That's it, the Steelers were the last team I thought had a legit shot to beat the Pats. They play the Jets and Miami, which should both be curbstompings of the ugliest kind. Their last game against the Giants they could lose, but only if 1) Belicheck rests EVERYBODY, and 2) Eli doesn't shit the bed. Belicheck's the right kind of asshole to not rest anyone until they are up by 3 TD's just so he can rub everyone's face in it and Eli shits the bed with startling regularity. As for the playoffs, I expect either a Colts or Steelers rematch against the Pats for the AFC Championship, and I'm not sure either will beat the Pats on their home turf.

The Packers have a running game now. Grant just shredded the Raiders (not hard) but he did pretty damn well against the Cowboys when given the chance. The Packers CAN beat the Cowboys in Texas for the NFC Championship, but only if they don't outthink themselves like they did last week.

I think the AFC wild cards will be the Jags and Cleveland. I seriously do not believe the Bills can beat Cleveland at home, and they have to play both the Giants and the Eagles, either one of which can sneak up on you. The Browns play the Bills, Bengals and San Fran, and they are sure to beat the Niners at home.

The NFC is a little uglier, but I suppose the Giants will make it in, if only to lose the first round. I think Minnesota might actually sneak in as the 6th seed, if only because they can run the ball so well, and either Peterson or Taylor can take over a game. The Cards and Lions might make it, but no one on either team is really a guy they can ride like Peterson or Taylor, at least not on those teams.

The Pats are going to try to score 100 on the Jets for having the gall to complain that the Pats were BREAKING THE FUCKING RULES. It isn't too late for their team plane to go down, is it?

Back when Bradshaw played, you were actually allowed to play defense against a wide receiver, you could chuck all the way downfield, offensive linemen weren't allowed to pass block with their hands, there was one fewer line judge (added to call pass interference penalties).  The big rule changes were put in in the late 70s/early 80s, but they have ratched up enforcement of the 5 yard chuck rule and the pass interference rule several times since.  I'm sure I have forgotten some but the rules & enforcement policies have been modified many times to create more passing, because points = tv ratings.

They've also radically increased protection for the quarterback.  In 1975, if you ran 5 wide receivers your quarterback would die.  Now that QB contact is essentially 2-hand touch only, you can run offenses where you do very little to protect the QB.  Also, the West Coast offense (throw short passes instead of running to control the ball, throw short slants so you can get large gains on short passes) wasn't really perfected until the 49er teams and has continued to evolve (largely in tandem with rules/enforcement changes).

Comparing Romo to Bradshaw is kind of like comparing a contemporary baseball player to someone who played during the dead ball era.

PS- I may be blinded by fandom, but I think the Pats are beatable in the playoffs by the Steelers, as well as the Chargers/Jags/Colts.  The Pats have not demonstrated an ability to run or stop the run against good teams, and all the Pats playoff games will be played in Boston in January.  With some wind/sleet/rain/snow, it'll be non-trivial to win when your offense is based on throwing the ball 80% of the time.  And their defense is old.  I'd make the Pats a favorite, but wouldn't be shocked if they lost.  If they build a dome over that stadium, they are 19-0.

PPS - looks like Vick got 23 months http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/12/10/vick_1211.html  Earliest he can get out is May 2009

I don't know what to think about Glenn (or rather, just an extra receiver like that). It could disrupt how well it already works now. Having T.O. as the deep threat, and Witten just killing teams who care enough about T.O. to pull that Tampa 2 shit. The only thing I'd like to see changed is Jones off the top of the depth chart. Seriously.. Wtf.

… …the changes were also a strike against the powers of the day, Oakland and Pittsburgh, that had DB that played so physical and just eliminated receivers from the play…

Steelers played well in 1st half, limited Patriots but couldn't convert their own chances… …in the 2nd half, the Patriots made offensive adjustments that LeBeau (or the talent on field) simply couldn't account for and the Patriots O was unstoppable… …Steelers DB got gunshy after getting beat deep early and then Brady made them pay the rest of the way…

…no Polamolu is big as well as road (Steelers undefeated at home I believe - all losses on road season), but playoffs could be different nut. Still, I think if Patriots go 16-0, they are going to waltz to 19-0 and Super Bowl no matter how well opponent team plays them…

I don't think it matters if QB's are overly protected or not. Are you even watching how Brady or Romo play? Especially Brady. The fucker consistently guns the ball right after the snap -- Who does he need to be protected from? The ball is already in the air.

You know those hits they take in the chest area, they could easily be in their legs or up around the head area on a consistent basis.  And the reason they're able to get the ball away that quick? The receiver isn't getting mauled the entire way down the field.  Or you know, the stuff Rooster just said. 

If you can, you should read some of Dr. Z's columns on SI's site.  He occasionally can elaborate how the game has changed and allowed for the proliferation of these passing attacks.

This isn't to belittle what Romo, Favre, Brady, and Manning are doing (especially the later 3, can we put away the anointing oil for Romo for a sec, I don't want to hear this crap for the next 10 years).  Their statistics should be taken in context and the term "legend" and "all time great" shouldn't be thrown around lightly. 

If you really want any more evidence of how the passing attack has exploded in this era, just look at receiving stats.  Remember when Steve Largent was the all time receptions leader?

Saints v. Falcons tonight. Will any offense actually score? We'll find out!

The best receivers aren't getting mauled a lot because their names are Randy Moss and Terrell Owens. It's called skill. Not a change in rules.

And when they are getting mauled (and there are ways to do it), then the teams that are winning games are the same ones who have trained secondary receivers to not just stand around and block -- but to be ready for the pass.

And I don't deny that passing has opened up a lot, but I think it's more to do with certain positions (especially the Tight End, and often RB's) being exploited more than in the past. Which is to say that there's simply more receivers on the field than just the WR's. I think the reasons for Manning's success is a little different -- Seems like he changes plays on the fly more than anyone else. He brings a lot of confusion.

(http://www.subcortex.com/ChimpNoEvil.jpg)

Rule changes have occurred.  Seriously, we're not lying here.

* head slap banned (watch some old NFL films of Deacon Jones doing his thing)

* offensive linemen allowed to use hands

* offensive linemen allowed to be upright instead of set

* WR only permitted to be hit once in 5 yards

* QB protected, slightest hit can be roughing

* more interference calls, due to additional ref and emphasis by league

Do you really think those are insignificant developments that didn't translate into increased passing yards and catches…?

No shit. Doesn't change the fact there is such a thing as good playcalling, good reading of coverages, and player skill. Have some appreciation for the game. Whining about rules is for losers.

Shit, I can show you examples from within the last five years.

You remember the snow game in the playoffs in New England? Indy vs. New England, snow just dumping the whole field, mudballs everywhere. The NE corners were just manhandling the Colts receivers right on the line and then all the way around the field. Just sticking to them like wet t-shirts to drunk barbitches. The next year, refs were told to start calling more defensive holding/pass interference calls, and they have.

It isn't a coincidence that since that game, both Manning and Brady have (and will in Brady's case) broken the single-season passing TD record. 

EDIT: It's not whining about the rules, it's just showing that people are comparing apples to super-steroid hormone-modified apples. Bradshaw played during a run-heavy era, on a run-heavy team with some great vertical receivers. Romo is playing on a pass-heavy team, with a pass-happy offensive coordinator, and in a conference that is known to be weak as fuck, with a set of rules that make passing offensives much more pervasive.

Romo is good. He's got about 5 more years of similar production before people should be comparing him to Bradshaw, Favre, Manning, Brady, Montana or any of the other hall-of-famers.

No one's whining about the rules.  Why are you so fucking emo about football?  No one's insulting the Cowboys so if that's part of the bellyaching, please take it off the table.

There are rule changes that have led to the proliferation of the passing attack in today's game.  That's not whining, that's a simple fact.   Yes, receivers are bigger and stronger today and the tight end is playing a role.  That is also a fact.   There is some causality  with the later here.  Emphasis on a DB is now quickness and speed since the amount of contact they have has been reduced.  Tight ends are more productive because they're not getting destroyed by linebackers outside of the 5 yard area. 

It's not merely that we're living in the age of golden armed super studs and freakishly gifted wide receivers, we've made an environment where they're allowed to thrive.  There's a bit of both and one one here is whining about the rules or discounting how good some of the players are.  It's just that they're putting up stats that have little basis for comparison with a lot of the offensive production of years past due to some of these issues.

Edit: Haem said basically the same thing I did.  Haem and I agree, that should be enough for you.

I'm Emo cuz monkeys piss me off.

Also, the Cowboys aren't being singled out in what I'm talking about here. Don't take it way. I mentioned them, sure, but I didn't exclude anyone else. I'd mention other well rounded teams besides the Boys, Pats, Colts, but I just want to keep it brief. Also, those teams do have some of the best records, so why not.


Thank you. We can compromise then.

Another game evolution thing is the whole OLB/DE pass rusher v. LT (or RT if QB is lefthanded…)…

Good offensive tackles are now paid on par with skill positions in large part because of Lawrence Taylor and other pass rush monsters whose specialty was serving up QB plasterings…

By the way, I'm not comparing Romo to Bradshaw. I haven't seen enough of Bradshaw's games to be honest. I'm just repeating what Bradshaw said himself. Take it up with him. I'm just shocked that Romo has already surpassed a stat from a guy like that just in this season alone. Hence, why I said: Wtf? Aikman's another one who pointed out being trumped in regular season stats (granted, he didn't factor in Emmit).

So in all seriousness is anyone going to watch the MNF game tonight? Any predictions on an outcome?

I'll check it out in the first half and see how it goes. I'm guessing NO on top 13-10.

Even with my wife out of town and the possibility of tennis getting rained out? No.

I'd rather binge on the 360 or finally go back and beat Persona 3. 

Hell, I'd rather fix my sprinklers or put up Christmas lights.  This game is going to suck.  MNF is such epic fail this year.

I agree. I love watching Romo play, because he plays like the greats...right now. Good stuff. But that's the first part of the equation, the second is consistency over a few seasons.

I think Romo's biggest problem will start after Dallas loses a few back to back games and T.O. has an ego meltdown. I'm not sold on T.O. suddenly being Jerry Rice-like.

Why the fuck would I want to do that? Both teams are done. At least Atlanta has an excuse for sucking so much cock this year, New Orleans is just fail given form. I'd rather staple my nuts to the back of a drag racer on the starting line. Rasix is right, MNF is mega epic fail this season, and not just because of Kornhole.

I need Warrick Dunn to scrape together 7 fantasy points so my sister-in-law beats my cousin and I can back into my family FF playoffs despite losing 5 out of my last 6 games.  I'll watch until then (please do it early).  Fuck Jerious Norwood.  Until next week when, if I make it in, I'll probably have to start him.

I will probably keep one eye on the game tonight as I try to rebuild my decimated poker bankroll. The best part about watching it in the poker room is I can't hear Kornheiser.

What surprised me about Romo breaking that record was that he broke a Danny White record not a Troy Aikman record. I just assumed that Troy had that one. As for the Bradshaw thing other's have mentioned that he played on a run-oriented team, just like they are now. Heck one year both Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier had 1000 yard rushing seasons (back when 1000 yards in a season meant something not like today with the expanded 16 game schedule). Bradshaw had contemporaries like Fran Tarkington and Dan Fouts who were much more prolific passers so it wasn't like the 70s was totally devoid of a passing game even with the much more defense-friendly passing rules. That's also one of the reasons why Lynn Swann is having such a hard time getting into the Hall of Fame. Despite his legendary acrobatic catches he simply didn't have the career numbers even compared to receivers of his era.

Swann was inducted in 2001.  Crazy acrobatic catches in multiple Super Bowls will do that for you, I guess.

I need >8 FP from Dunn tonight to advance to FFL playoffs. That's a very dicey proposition, perhaps 20% chance? Even if I get in the top 4 (is a money league), Bush is one of my backs and he's toast for the season, though he hasn't exactly lived up to his 2nd round selection status very much this season.

On Swann (and Stallworth): he stretched the field for Rocky and Franco. Teams threw less but deeper and the threat seeded the running game.

Oh he did, what do you know. I just remember he had such a hard time at first cause his numbers were so low (though they were team records for the Steelers).

The Romosexuals in this thread are great. Nice to see them all come out of the closet though. BE PROUD!!

That Pats game in the snow made Bill Polion so mad that he was the one that pressured the rules committee (that he is a member of BTW) to make the 5-yard-contact penalty so strict. Funny how he only really goes after rule changes that will directly affect his own team. I'll bet if they were more defensive-minded, things would be different.
I guess it's one thing to break a rule but another to get them changed in your own favor from within.

An Indy GM should not be allowed to be on a n NFL rules committee. Period.

Come out of the closet? The two Cowboys fans here are from Texas. We've been that way since our mothers conceived us.

As for rules, I say it's funny that you only attack the three teams that are kicking everyone else's asses.

I love it when first-time posters insult the old-timers. It always turns out well.

 :popcorn:

Oops. My bad.. He attacked just two teams.

Still though. Indy is defensive minded. I don't know wtf you're talking about there.

LOL at Bobby Petrino getting the fuck out of Dodge. Rats off a sinking ship.

Man, that's fucking sad.

I didn't think anyone could go lower than Nick Saban.   :awesome_for_real:

He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even though I'm a Cowboys fan living in Atlanta, it still sort of pissed me off that the Falcons hired him in the first place. This is a predominantly black town with a predominatly black fanbase for the team. Do the right thing and hire a black coach. I think Emmitt Thomas is a great choice from his years of assistant experience.

Does Emmit even want to coach?

Hell, do any former running backs want to coach?

They just *may* be now but when the rules in my part of the discussion (and it seemed a discussion in an earlier post) they were far from it.

And hello. Yes, new poster :P  Sorry if I've jumped on some so-called vets. I didn't know there was some sort of old-timer part of the joining agreement that said I couldn't just jump on in :)

Welcome to f13. We eat our own young.  :pedobear:

Petrino fucking off back to college is just sad. I'd have like to at least have seen him go a full 2 years, but I guess he couldn't take his players mouthing off to him. DeAngelo Hall is a mouthy bitch. I don't think it says anything about hot college coaches chances in the NFL, I think it just says that after Vick got dogpiled, there was no one in the fucking world who could bring that team respectability. I mean, they started Joey-Fucking-Harrington for fuck's sake, and that was their best choice. They should have traded for Grossman and signed Ryan Leaf to make the QB suck trifecta. Throwing Leftwich in there just made him look worse than he is.

What's going to be interesting is seeing how much money Jerry Jones is going to have to shell out to keep Jason Garrett with the team. That guy's got more interest than the drunk slut in the bar at last call.

Why should a coach's skin color have anything to do with it? I could not care less what color the Seahawks head coach is; I care about wins and losses. Are black sports fans any different?

In a word, yes. 70% of NFL players are black, and only two head coaches happen to be black. Half of the assistant coaches on some teams are black, but many of them have never had a black head coach. It's just a disparity that I think white owners and white GMs feel more comfortable dealing directly with white head coaches.

So a black sports fan would rather root for a bad team coached by a black coach than a good team coached by a white coach? I am sure there are some that feel this way, but I can't imagine the majority of them fall into this category.

As for the lily whiteness of the NFL, that is systemic and will take time to change. It has already started with the coaches (there are at least 3 I can think of off the top of my head); GMs and team execs are next. Ownership is already wide open, at least for any non-white folks who feel like cough up several hundred million dollars.

I don't think it matters. If there are black coaches out there who are qualified and fight for the job, they'll get it. I don't think anyone in the league, or among (most) fans care. Hell, Tony Dungy pretty much has been the most mimicked coach around for several years now (before Indy). Any team owner would love to have him if they could. 

There are 4 black head coaches: Dungy, Lovie Smith, Marvin Lewis and Mike Tomlin.

Herm Edwards, Romeo Crennel.

Fuck, I knew I'd forget some.

Or maybe the Pats should stop being so unsportsmanlike and thinking they are above the rules. The timeout rule that bit Gibbs was a recent rule change made because the Pats were calling the double timeouts. And then of course they were specifically warned about their video taping antics but continued to do it anyways. So that's at least 3 rule changes/modifications in recent years made specifically because of the Patriots.

Some of the stories coming out about Petrino like his banning of television in the locker room and frowning upon of "loud talking" during road game dinners are just head-shaking. Treating NFL players like they are college kids is not a good way to run a team.

Petrino was an idiot. I hesitate to say that even with Vick, the Falcons couldn't do dick because of defense. People need to stop hiring coaches away from teams because they had one awesome season.

Wow, you went on a miraculous run to beat the other freakishly odd conference champion, Wake Forest, in the Orange Bowl! Hire that man!

Well, they are technically playing by the rules, or the rules wouldn't need to be changed, eh? Unfortunately, if you don't codify sportsmanship into the rulebook, the unsportsmanlike teams win.

The Patriots are the BF2 dolphin divers of football.

The videotaping was against the rules (as was the PI) hence the fines.

Lots of strong defenses all day...

Paelos, how about them Cowboys?  :hello_thar:

 :grin:

Paelos?! Man, he's about 6 States away from the pain.

Go Browns!  Although a horrible, Browns-like collapse to miss the playoffs is still possible... :grin:

lol @ Ravens.  Yah, keep Billick.   :awesome_for_real:

Meh, I hate losing to Philly, but it's fairly obvious that the Cowboys know these games are meaningless. You just didn't see the fight in the team today at all. They've won the division, they've clinched a first round bye, and all they can play for now is total home field advantage. In other words, whoopdedoo. I'm ready for the playoffs now.

What a fucking disaster of a game.     I wonder if Bisciotti is regretting coming out and saying we're going to be stuck with Billick for another year.

If they are at Lambeau field in January you will think it is a big deal.

Honestly, I think Green Bay will lose the first game they play. They've dominated in their division all year, but the only teams they've played that are playoff bound were the Cowboys and the Chargers, assuming that Minnesota doesn't get the wild card.

I just don't think they have been put under pressure very often during the season to prove that they would fare well in the playoffs.

Their schedules actually aren't much different:

Dallas opposition combined wins: 94

GB opposition combined wins: 90

If Favre just keeps on doing on what he's doing this season, then I'll be afraid of GB. If he plays to show that little whippersnapper up and tries to the old Favre, then I won't.


Anyhow, that was not just the Cowboys lacking motivation yesterday. That was worse.

Ye gods that was some awful playcalling on the Bills part. Hey, despite the swirling wind and poor visibility, the passing game is working. So let's run it, despite the Browns being all over the run. I felt they were pretty equal teams, but the Bills playcalling lost them the game.

And what the fuck is up with northern non-dome teams sucking in the snow lately? Guys, this is supposed to be your secret weapon.

Lastly, best field goal evar.

What a great/horrible Browns game.

I was actually at the game this week.

We got there to start tailgating around 8:15. At that point there was a light rain falling which would at times get heaver and then turn back into a light rain. That lasted until around 10:00 where it cleared up and was actually sort of pleasant.

Then around 10:30 - 11:00 (drunk time so could have been +/- an hour) the Blizzard started. That dumped around 4-6 inches over the next 2-3 hours.

Then came the freezing winds and that pretty much closed out the 4th quarter.

To give you an idea of the effect of the rain/blizzard/freezing 40mph wind we were in the upper decks. By the end of the game there were 4 stadium crew around the tunnel to our section. Two on the inside and two holding rails inside the tunnel. The two outside were catching people as they were blown through the tunnel, across the ice-slick and toward the stairs. The two in the tunnel were forming a human chain to help people through. I initially was going to forgo the human chain but quickly realized it would have been entirely impossible to actually make it through the tunnel. I would guess about 60mph winds blowing toward you as you tried to cross a 12ft patch of slick ice.

Good times...

Oh and there was a game.... We couldn't see much of it the first half because of the wind and snow which was whipping around so much it stung your eyes if you looked at the field too long. The second half we could actually see the game but it was DAMN cold and there really wasn't much football happening to comment on. Although you would think that also being a cold weather team Buffalo could have found a punter who could kick a frozen ball. Zastudil only shanked one that I can remember but it seemed like Buffalo's punter shanked every single punt except one.

Let's say it like it is. The Cowboys didn't lack motivation yesterday, they stunk on ice. The Eagles sucked too, unable to finish a number of long drives with any points. And yet the Cowboys couldn't even get up enough motivation to score a touchdown? No, they just stunk. Romo looked ordinary, and I laugh at Westbrook falling down on the 1 yard line to essentially end the game. Owens dropped passes and by the fourth quarter, the Cowboys had completely abandoned the running game as if they were down by 3 TD's. In short, the O Coordinator fell into the same trap the Pack did when they played the Cowboys. He stopped calling plays like he should have and started just chucking the ball and Romo wasn't up for it, especially after his thumb got hurt. I'd love to see the Pack win out and the Cowboys lose one of their last two games to give the Pack home-field. That'd be awesome.

As far as the Pack losing in the playoffs, other than Dallas, who is going to beat them? The Giants? Not likely. Minnesota might be able to beat them if Peterson/Taylor is on track, but I don't think Jackson will have a good day in Green Bay. Seattle and Tampa both have serious achilles heels. No, I think only Dallas is the team the Packers should fear in the playoffs, and if they manage to get the game at Lambeau, that fear is greatly lessened. (Of course I say this and watch them lose their first playoff game. That would suck it.)

Watched the Giants and Redskins game, and the Giants second half collapse is in full effect. Eli looked bad, but really with the wind like it was, I blame the offensive coordinator more than anything. Brandon Jacobs was doing a good job running the football, and yet they felt the need to throw 52 times, many times downfield? There was no need. Hell, the left hand sideline was open the entire 4th quarter for dinks and dunks, wipe freaking open, but Eli insisted on throwing to the right into double coverage. That team is badly coached, and they will go out the first round of the playoffs if they even make it in.

The Jags/Steelers game was the best game of the day.

Bucs finally returned a kickoff! I remember Stecker coming really really close a few years ago, but it's about time. Think I heard this AM that they've received 1865 kickoffs before they finally returned one for the TD.

So- when is the NFL going to quit shafting West Coast teams by making them play in the morning (body clock time) when they travel to the East Coast? I see 4 PM EST starts all the time- why not just make that the norm for games involving West Coast teams? I can't imagine the Seahawks are the only team that sleepwalks through the vast majority of these games.

You have a poor concept of time zones.  An early game on the west coast is at 10 AM even if you are watching it at 1 on the east coast...  Always has been.

I don't even understand what you are trying to say. There are no 10 AM starts for games being played on the West Coast.


My point (I thought it was clear, but apparently not)- A 1 PM EST start game on the East Coast is 10 AM on the West Coast. Which means the traveling West Coast team has to be at the stadium ~ 7AM PST. That is an undue burden that East Coast teams traveling west do not have- the games start at 4PM EST, which allows them to SLEEP IN (according to their body clocks). I see games from the East Coast that start at 4 PM local time often (usually for TV, it seems); why not just extend that concept to all games involving West Coast teams?

Haem, the Cowboys truly played like shit the entire game and deserved to lose.... that hurt to say.  Play calling was terrible with abandoning the run game entirely when Romo just wasn't in it.  I blame Jessica  :awesome_for_real:

Hell the entire NFC East played horrible today making for some wholly unwatchable games.  I just hope this gives them the kick in the ass they need to not sleepwalk the rest of the season like the Giants. 

The Giants are sleepwalking, they are dead. They just don't know it yet. Although losing Shockey might actually make them realize their lack of life. Eli is just not a #1 QB, and he never will be with Tom Chokelin coaching him. I don't know what magic Coughlin did to make Brunell a winner, but he isn't going to pull that off with Eli. Eli needs somebody else, and even then he may never be better than a backup.

Yeah, Dallas played like shit, and I really can't explain why, at least until Romo got hurt. T.O. really didn't look into the game at all.

Yeah Romo getting this thumb jammed or whatever didn't help but he just wasn't in it yesterday even before that.  But I've seen enough to know we are a 2nd half team for the most part but after Romo stopped pulling magic rabbits out of the hat we really needed to start running more.  Wondering if the honeymoon with TO is over yet but don't get me started on TO.  You will not find a bigger TO hater then me even when he does well for my boys.  Douche just complains about not getting the ball then drops an easy one right in the hands. 

Well, he's a star WR -- it's only natural for him to want the ball. They all do.

As for dropping it, that's another story.

Personally, I'm glad the Cowboys lost. It's the kind of kick in the ass you need so you don't just go coasting into the playoffs. We win the next two games and nothing changes. I think we will too, and get full home field advantage.

Steelers got pounded by Jacksonville.

Were it not for a couple of missed extra points, game would not have been as close.

Steelers made some big plays but they got beat at the line of scrimmage, as they have been getting beat there consistently since mid-season. First home loss of the season, giving them 7-1 mark at home. 2-4 on the road and headed to St. Louis for Thursday night contest. Wouldn't be surprised if they dropped to 9-6 and then it's off to Baltimore for the final week, where only a melting Raven squad gives them the playoffs.

Vikings are looking shitty against a Bears team that's just CREAMING them on defense. My lord if the Bears offense was worth a damn, this game should be 21-0 and over before the half.

Looking at Kyle Orton, I'm reminded how many NFL quarterbacks have that awful, awful pornstar mustache.  Why? 

My guess is if you're an NFL QB you don't have problems meeting women. So, you can do whatever the hell you like. If I could pull off the John Holmes porn stache on a regular basis, I'd give it a whirl.

Also, it's Chicago. If there was an American Mecca for Mustaches, it would be there.

It's to distract you from his HORRIFYING NECKBEARD.

Glad the Orton Era got another shot, and so so glad it's almost over.  Fuck them for making me think they might win for 3 quarters, and even worse, making me think that if Rex was in there the Bears would have blown them out.

Emmet said some very nice things to Peterson after the game. After the hostbot FORGOT Peterson's name and Young said, "Hey, you don't even need to introduce him, everyone knows it's A.D.!"  :uhrr: Good question by Peterson, great answers by Smith.

Funny commentary by Young busting Orton's balls about the qb's wet dream defensive setup.

Ah, a fellow Deadspin aficionado.

While it's true that I do visit there on occasion, I didn't in 2005 when the Neckbeard first made an appearance and was obvious to anyone forced to watch it.  Fun seeing pictures of a NFL frat boy QB still living the life with a bottle of Jack, though.

Most likely true, but it has become a touchstone in those parts, so that was my first thought. It is not like it takes a comic mastermind to find something about Kyle Orton to mock  :grin:

Last night, I actually thought "Well, at least he hasn't thrown a bounce pass yet" and within the next 3 plays he had thrown 2.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hb97IWipUm0AxpPRv4dEESLiFLyg


Too funny.

Wow, that's sad.

I will admit it's annoying when they show people who have NOTHING to do with the game on TV. Unless it's the President of a Country or the Pope, I couldn't give a shit who is attending the game.

I don't mind looking at her. I think it's sad that Owens would stoop to finger pointing like that though. Lately he's been pretty good at keeping criticism to himself. But now he's blaming some dude's girlfriend? I'd kick his ass if I was Romo.

I think the point was more, let's focus on the field. I think he did it publically because he's sick of Romo's lifestyle being played out in the media as a big deal. Hell, tell me Romo didn't look totally different and distracted in that game against Philly?

Jaws or someone was saying the last time he was playing that badly he had his tart du jour in the stands, too. If they haven't been present at any other games, they might be onto something.

I want to say that it was just the Eagles Defensive Coach who schooled them...

But then, both teams played like shit for the most part. Philly happened to get the early edge, and Dallas' rep for 2nd half recovery didn't come into play.


It isn't the women though. That's a terrible fucking copout.

You never watch Warriors games do you?  Jessica Alba in the stands = 4tw

I fucking hated that the TV broadcast showed her and KEPT TALKING ABOUT HER. I don't care about that dumb cunt, nor who is banging that dumb cunt. FOOTBALLKTHXBAI. Especially when it's Joe "I'm on every goddamn sports broadcast everywhere" Buck. Have some STFU, Joe.

But TO dogging on a man's woman in public? That's classless and Romo ought to tell him to shut the fuck up. It's like I've always said about TO and Randy Moss. They are great teammates when you win, but when you lose, locker chemistry goes to shit.

Apparently TO said it in a joking manner.

Football is entertainment.  This sorta wild speculation is part of that.  People reading alot into TO's comments didn't like him to begin with. 

Bingo. I heard the direct audio of the comments. Everyone was chuckling together about the whole thing.

TO is just jealous. He is probably secretly in love with Romo, just as he was with Garcia when he called him a fag or whatever. Serious closet case.

I'm pretty sure I've said that on pg2 or somewhere way back.  Everyone who knows anything about football in SF knows that TO is gay.  Which is why I've got nothing against him, I'm sure that is a really hard thing to deal with.  He's nothing like Randy Moss, he's just a dumb queer in a sport that can not tolerate homosexuals.

Randy Moss is on another level. Fuck I hate that guy.  I wish death on him every night before I go to sleep.  Him getting a ring would be a miscarriage of sports justice.  Nobody deserves one less then him.

Queer issue aside (which could be true), he's just a different player than Moss. Both physically and strategically. Better off just making comparisons to Harrison or Johnson.

I just want to say.  Suck it, Cleveland.

Best thing that could have happened to my fantasy team. Now that Cleveland needs to win, Derek Anderson won't be benched. Now I have to find a replacement for Willie Parker because thanks to my opponent losing 4 of his guys to injuries I may make the championship game.  :awesome_for_real:

Cowboys secure homefield with the Bears eating the Packers for breakfast. Washington is still alive and will probably make it in since Dallas starters, I'm guessing, won't be playing more than a half.

Looks like 3 teams from the NFC East are going to be in the playoffs. Good times.  :oh_i_see:

The NFC East is the strongest division in the NFC. Only the AFC South can boast more top to bottom total wins. It wouldn't shock me if we saw three teams from it the NFC East in the playoffs this year. It's all the more reason I'm impressed that the Cowboys have done what they did by going 13-2 to this point.

So for all you who were worried about the Cowboys having to eat snow, you best be worrying about whether Green Bay can make it past their first game, like I said in an earlier thread.

I'd love to see GB/DAL/NE/IND as the final standouts, but I can't be bothered to calculate if it can even work out like that.

The short answer is that it's highly probably. So yes.

Brett Favre doesn't play well in the snow/cold weather anymore. You should've been hoping for GB to win so they could secure home field advantage.

It never mattered to me one way or the other. I fully expect GB to lose early.

He can't play at Texas Stadium either. It's a win win really.

07 Playoff Scenarios heading into final week (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao3I2zcACMAjruAYPl74HhNDubYF?slug=ys-07nflplayoffscenarios&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

* Steelers/Jaguars rematch likely unless Chargers lose to Raiders
* Titans beat Indy, and Browns are done
* Redskins in driver seat for final NFC spot, Vikings and Saints couldn't take care of business in week 16.

/progon

+ Redskins advance almost by default since Dallas has nothing to play for but you never know, especially with this year's crop of NFC pretenders.

+ Pats go 16-0, and most likely will waltz to Superbowl. But don't discount Jaguars from knocking them out — they can out-physical NE and if they own scrimmage battle, those 30something LBs on NE side will be beat down by Drew and Taylor. Obviously Garrard can't make any muffs. But they might have to get pass Indy first, and I don't think they match up as well against Indy.

+ NFC blows and anybody could take it. and it wouldn't surprise me either way if Cowboys are the ones to be served up for another AFC victor, or if they lose in the first round to the Redskins. But Redskins have to tackle Bucs|Seahawks first (assuming they beat Cowboys in week 17).

+ No more MNF Kornholio!

Green Bay not in the championship game? I don't see it. Look at their competition.

They get a bye the first round, and will end up playing either: Giants, Seahawks, Bucs or the Redskins/Vikings. They've already shown they can beat the Vikings with and without Peterson, and Tavaris Jackson has been decidedly shitty the last two weeks. The Redskins shouldn't scare ANYBODY, especially not with Campbell out. Todd Collins? Not going to do much against Dallas, not going to do much against Green Bay.

The Giants? Not happening. I fully expect the Giants to lose their first-round playoff game, no matter who they play. They almost coughed it up against Buffalo. If they play anybody that can shut down their running game (and the Bucs can, possibly the Seahawks), they are done. If the Giants have to go to Green Bay, it won't matter how bad Favre plays in the cold, Eli will play MUCH MUCH WORSE.

Now both the Seahawks and the Bucs have teams that could beat Green Bay. But I don't see it. Both the Bucs and the Pack have damn good defenses, and Green Bay's offense is just plain better. The Seahawks have no running game and I don't think Hasselback can go into Lambeau and play as well as Favre can. Outside of Dallas, there isn't any scary competition in the NFC for Green Bay.

The AFC is similary grim if you aren't Indy or NE. The Steelers are done without Willie Parker. They can't beat the Jags, IMO, barring an injury to Fred Taylor or Garrard or Jones-Drew. They could beat both the Titans or the Browns in the first week, and maybe they could beat the Chargers the next week - I'd make that a push. But they can't beat Jacksonville.

The Chargers can beat both the Titans or the Browns, but not the Jags. Whether they will or not depends on which Chargers team shows up.

However, Indy having a bye week is actually a negative for them. They don't do good on bye weeks. Though it may give them a chance to have Harrison back, they are such a rhythm team that it will be the second half of their first playoff game before they'll get on track. I expect the Chargers, Jags or Steelers could beat them.

But it doesn't matter who beats who. The Pats are winning the AFC.

Who's going to beat the Cowboys in the NFC? Nobody has yet, with the exception of Philly who isn't there.

I think it's going to be Dallas v. Pats in another "OMG I WISH IT WOULD BE CLOSE BUT IT WON'T AT ALL!" Superbowl.

I think it could be really close. There IS a way to beat the Pats, and Dallas probably has the best shot out of anyone.

Not true, the only teams with the balls to beat the pats are the Eagles and Steelers.  Everybody else is so busy trying to play the right cute combination of clever zones to stop Brady that they never touch him and he takes them apart dunking it to Kevin Faulk for 20 yard gains or running it himself to convert 3-10+ like the fucking whore he is.

Then while the game still seems to hang in the balance suddenly the defense will shutdown the opposing offense as the Pats staff makes their adjustments and the Pats running game will start gashing the ever living fuck out of their hapless opponents as they get destroyed in the trenches.  Game over man.

Brady is Kurt Warner, with more talent, more drive, more passion for the game of football and a bit more toughness.  You can't beat him unless he's making mistakes and he only makes mistakes when he's flustered.  But he's far from unflappable.  Fuck up his rhythm, hit him hard, cheapshot him, fuck with his WR's and he will be running to the ref every other play stomping his feet and crying like a bitch.

Payton has 4 receivers that will get blown up for their QB's sake every down if that's what it takes.  Brady doesn't.  He has Faulk and possibly Welker although I'm still hardly sold on that guy being the second coming of whoever that white guy was for Denver for all those years.  People need to come after him, hard.  He might still beat you but at least your giving yourself a shot.  Counting on him to just fuck up and fall into your lap is stupidity.  Also Dallas has fucking awful safety's.  Roy Williams is utter crap in coverage and I can't even think of the other guy atm.  I used to blame Parcells for asking too much of them but I'm pretty sure they just suck at this point.

P.S.  In the superbowl Bellichek will eat Romo for lunch.  He will come after him so fast and so hard, and will have told his guys to fucking hurt him.  Gaurentee it.  Say what you want but that guy plays to fucking win, ends justify the means and all that.  Romo's a smiley dumbass who will be doing that huck-throw where he's ducking as he heaves the ball with nothing but a prayer, I'm sure that'll work just great.   :awesome_for_real:

I definitely don't think Dallas could ever stop the Pats. I think they have a chance to win though if they tried to outscore them. They're the only team around with the right elements to pull that off. Not just Romo/Witt/TO, but Barber -- he could be crucial. New England's run defense is weak, and Barber's already made asses out of them once. Dallas would have to use him far more than they're used to though.

Dallas won't do it though. We abandon the run entirely too fast when things get quick and dirty. It's part of our retarded offensive strategy to just say fuck it and start heaving the ball over the middle.

Dallas doesn't have the secondary to stop the Pats for an entire game. When your starting safeties are Roy Williams and Ken Hamlin (both big hitters/pseudolinebackers), it is just a matter of time and a few play actions before you can beat them deep. Repeatedly.

What we need is a good horse collar tackle on Brady   :drill:

You are correct.

I think Green Bay COULD beat Dallas, I just don't think they will.

If it involved a gruesome compound fracture ala Theismann I would be ecstatic.

The Colts have a shot at beating the Pats in a shootout of Harrison gets healthy.  I don't see anyone else coming close via the shootout route.

The only other way I see them losing is playing a team like the Jags, Chargers or Steelers in a nice, windy sleetstorm where the Pats cannot throw. If the game is just about running and stopping the run, I think they can be beaten.

The Colts? They seem to be more dependent on defense more than they ever were. It'd never work.

They've been without Marvin Harrison for half the season, and Gonzalez has just now gotten comfortable in the offense and Peyton with him. They've missed a big offensive weapon, their O line hasn't been as good (also because of injuries and retirement) when Ugoh has been out and they've even missed Dallas Clark on a few games. Their reliance on defense isn't because the team isn't as good, it's because they are playing half the B-team on offense.

Heck of a ball game. That 22 unanswered in the second half was impressive.

That was ridiculous.  Giants bring folding to a new art.

You have to give the Pats some props though. Brady under throws a wide open Moss on a sixty yard bomb on a straight fly pattern. What do they do the very next play? Sixty yard bomb on a fly pattern to Moss for a touchdown. That is some in-your-face-nails-shit.

I don't give them much credit beyond recognizing it was open. The DB was limping like crazy after the first miss and they exploited it. Good call? Hell yes. Worthy of respect? It was simply there.

It's a ballsy call on 3rd and 10 as it is generally a low percentage play, particularly when you just did it and it is now a clear passing situation where you are likely to at least face a cover-2 (and therefore safety help).

I know it is fashionable to hate the Pats, but from a football standpoint, they are an amazing machine to watch. I hope they take it all the way to 19-0.

Lol, I think I'm SERIOUSLY fucked up. And blind. I went to out earlier, glanced at the game here and there (without glasses), and was under the impression all night that the Pats lost. Are you tellingme that they won? Again???

He was one guy on a route. It's not like there weren't two more shorter options on the same play. Brady just saw he was outstandingly wide open and heaved it. Any QB and any receiver could make the same play 9/10 times in the NFL. Moss just started running forward and nobody bothered to pick him up at all. It was a complete defensive collapse more than an outstanding offensive play call.

As far as the Pats go, they probably will go all the way, but I don't think they are fun to watch at all. It is too machine-like and boring for me, plus I can't stand Tom Brady or Randy Moss as human beings. That being said, I do respect their accomplishment from a football standpoint. It's astounding that they actually pulled it off, and frankly never looked to be in doubt about it at any point in the season.

FOr 50 minutes the Giants played like a world class Football team.  For 10 they did not.  Playing against any other team those 10 minutes would have not been fatal.  Patriots deserve props for that.  They would have gotten even more props if they didn't rely on the Giants to trip on their dicks to win.

Speaking of tripping on dicks, my FF team is in our league's Super Bowl but half my starting lineup is waiver wire pickups thanks to injuries and teams packing it in. Go go Todd Collins, TJ Duckett and Roydell Williams!

Uh, what makes Brady a bad human being again?  :?

This? (http://www.boston.com/ae/celebrity/articles/2007/02/19/tom_bradys_former_girlfriend_pregnant/)

If banging supermodels makes you bad, I don't want to be good.

I'm all for banging supermodels. It's the fathering bastard children and having nothing to do with them part that leaves me a little pissed. There are tons of examples of this in the NFL, but they try to keep it quiet most of the time.

I missed the part in the article where it say he has nothing to do with his kid.

He's 4 months old. It's not like he can have a game of catch with him. When you have split up with the mother of an infant, I'm not exactly sure what you are supposed to do to "having something to do with it."   

But... but... fathering children out of wedlock is wrong!

I'm sure that kid won't have to work for the rest of his life.

Doesn't make him bad for not being able to work things out with the chick though. Shit happens, unfortunately.

Laugh all you want, but that's part of my moral code, and I don't think it's a sign of good character at all.

It seems highly unlikely that Brady is going to have much to do with his kid, and yes that does seem a little wrong to me.

Tom tell you that over a beer one night, or just a general feeling you get from hanging out with him?

It's also that he left his now-pregnant ex for ANOTHER supermodel.

Man, you guys are terribly judgmental about something you know little about, or is even your business. That sounds more "bad" to me than being in the unfortunate situation of knocking a girl up that you ultimately can't work things out and stay with. Something that happens all the time by good people everywhere. Like I said, shit happens.

Nope. No matter how you gift wrap that shit, it doesn't happen randomly. It happens to stupid people who fuck up. I can forgive their problems, but not if they don't deal with the situation at hand. Am I judging? Yes, in a way I am. I am because I don't understand how you could be dumb enough to let that happen if it's not part of your life plan. We live in a society of so much birth control it's almost to the point of hubris to "accidently" get someone pregnant.

Maybe there's more to it. Maybe there's not. My guess is that he didn't even do the bare minimum to cover up, and this is what he got.

Now wait just a minute. Unless you are going to argue that someone just shouldn't have sex before they are married (and if you are asserting that, you should just say so) then it is entirely possible for it to happen to "good" people all the time. Who says he knew she was preggo when they broke up? Who said it was his fault they did?

And if you are asserting that he is a "bad person" for having the temerity to sleep with someone he wasn't married to (who was also single and presumably was just fine with sleeping with him), you are being judgmental prude.

As to your edit, it is possible for birth control to fail or even for one partner to lie about their birth control situation. You seem to be in quite a position to judge other people's relationships and sex habits without much basis in either experience or fact.

I don't believe you should randomly sleep with people you aren't married to. That's also part of my moral and religious code. However, I know people that do and I try to ignore it or look the other way because it's not my life. HOWEVER, when you have a kid, and then subsequently leave that person, you are a douchebag as a man.

Was the wrapper on his dick? I'd bet tons of money it wasn't the condom that failed. Own what you can own.

If you read that article, you will see that they broke up in late 2006 and that she confirmed that she was three months pregnant in February of 2007. It's entirely possible that they split up before they knew she was pregnant. Maybe not. Who knows. But you sound like an asshole making such statements about something you know nothing about.

And it is also entirely possible to be a good guy, a good father and good man to a son when you aren't married to your son's mother.

True, and many divorced couples work it out for the kids in such a fashion. I can understand a man having children in a marriage and that marriage dissolving. I don't understand it happening outside those committed boundaries if you are remotely educated and properly protected.

This will delve into politics I'm sure, so we'll just put my views on the subject into the box of crazy Christian guy and move on. It's a football thread after all, and I don't want it to get poisoned by my feelings towards one man on a team of many.

I don't care where things end up. You've made a bold (some would say foolish) statement so now you have to support it.

So, let me get this straight. He is a "bad man" because he did some combination of these things:

1) Had sex with someone who wasn't his wife.
2) Apparently didn't use a "Paleos-approved" method of birth control.
3) Either upon learning his girlfriend was pregnant did not either: a) propose on the spot, or b) seek to reconcile a busted relationship and get married "for the sake of the kid."
4) But if he had of done one of the options contained in #3, been married for however brief of period of time, then divorce her, all would be absolved.

Am I getting this correctly?

You don't really care what I think, nor do you actually want to defend Tom Brady against my thought process. We have differing moral views on sexuality from our own experiences and backgrounds. Let's just let it go.

No, you made the statement, why are you afraid to defend it?

I am trying to find out exactly what you find objectionable about his behavior.  The second inquiry is whether you believe everyone who does not follow your particular "moral code," regardless of whether they themselves personally share it, are all "bad guys."

The short answer is time and place. This is neither. This is a football thread I don't want to get sent to "The Place I Never Visit." I have an antiquated view on morality and religion that most here find objectionable, so I stopped preaching at you people. This was a rare glimpse into the way I think that I don't feel I have to defend, because you don't want to really hear it. You want to ream for something you think is wrong because of what I said.

If that's the case, fine. I was wrong for having said it. I don't really care. I don't want to keep this going. I don't care about Tom Brady as I've never met the man. I would hope his child is brought up well and cared for. That is all.

Wow, that was a rather pathetic cop out.

I'm not asking to be "preached" to. I'm asking you to respond to a question. If you are fundamentally incapable of doing that to justify something you have stated, you should refrain from saying it in the first place.

I'm also not look to "ream" you because you said something "wrong." I am trying to figure out what the fuck you are talking about. Quit beating around the bush and just say what you mean. It will make things easier.

I don't think pregnancies happen by accident, and I don't think they are a justifiable reason to leave a relationship.
I don't think that sex is a meaningless activity to be had by whomever you meet, no matter how long you "date"
I don't think that Tom Brady exercised any caution in protecting himself in his sexual relationship, because the combined failure rates of dual contraceptives when both parties are using them are infintessimally small.
I think he's an arrogent son of bitch.
I think they broke up because of that child.
I think the chances that he'll actually give two shits about that child as a playboy QB dating another supermodel are minimal.

Is that clear enough?

Who said he left BECAUSE she was pregnant? Where are you getting all of this?

Hell, when does that ever happen? That's just a completely bizarre scenario.


Not only do you not have a right to judge them. You don't have a right to forgive them either.

It doesn't matter. You knock up your girlfriend and then walk away, and I'm going to think less of you. There's numerous reasons why, which you all seem to happily ignore because apparently everyone has the right to happily fuck away with zero consequences.

Those are direct quotes. That's why I think he doesn't care. The whole thing seems to be a sideshow to him that he just wants to go away.

He might've walked away before they even knew. They might have had extreme irreconcilable differences (shit happens), then all of the sudden they found out that she's pregnant. Maybe they can be admired in one respect from your point of view, that although they couldn't get along, they recognized that having a child would be a good thing, that they at least saw each other as good parents, and that they didn't end the pregnancy.

I'm not happily ignoring anything. I can think of a hundred legitimate reasons why shit goes down like this. You're the one ignoring things.

Not sure why that makes him an asshole. He's telling all of us to stay the fuck out of his business. I'd like to respect that.

Besides, he obviously thinks it's a big deal, what with the comments about making big plans and all that.

Basically, I have no idea what you're trying to say by posting these quotes.

And I think that you wouldn't put good money on any of those possibilties. A regular public figure when faced with such a think would at least talk about love, or the child, or the general situation. Everything he says is all about him. He's an arrogent man, and it shows when he speaks. I don't like him and I don't like what he stands for. That's where the original statement came from. Hell, a simple statement like "I'm going to take care of that kid" would go a long way.

I notice no one took exception to me calling out Randy Moss as a substandard human being though. Perhaps that was too easy.

Lol, man you're warped. He's obligated to tell you everything, and if he doesn't, then you're free to imagine worst possible scenarios and then judge him harshly on said imaginations? Yeah, OK.

Anyways, I'll respect Tom Brady and just shut the fuck about it. But you are being way too harsh, I'll just say that.

Fair enough. I didn't expect to sway people to my viewpoint about the man. I simply don't like him and I tried to explain why. Perhaps my viewpoint is warped. It's a question I do ask daily, because I'm not tied to one simple philosophy.

We're finished with this line of conversation then? I really don't want to send something born of football to the Den or worse Politics.

FOOTBALL. Discuss.

Believe me that's the last place I want this. As I stated before.

In other news. Tenessee and Washington surprised me today. I didn't think they'd actually come out to play like they did. The Cowboys on the other hand, well, they sucked ass. I'm hoping that it isn't a sign of how things might go in bad weather, even though it was a meaningless game to them.

Before I talk about football again, I just need to clarify something. Paelos: I don't think you're warped for your moral stance. Of course, the ideals that you have in mind are a good thing. Believe it or not, I'm with you there, more or less. I might be more umm... of a realist than a idealist, but still, I know where you're coming from. Hell, most people want what you're talking about -- so if you think you're morality is being questioned here, you're wrong. I say you're warped because you're judging a guy, totally unrelated to you at that, on just a little tabloidal information and assumptions.


Anyhow, err... Football. I hate that teams bring in their 2nd stringers, like the Cowboys did today, just because nothing is "at stake".

Besides, something really was at stake here: Letting the Redskins make the playoffs. And that's just a truly un-Dallas like attitude to let that ever happen!

Thank god this season is over with a win yesterday over the Steelers.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

This game really pissed me off.  We let our division rivals into the playoffs giving them huge momentum.  The way they are playing right now we will be seeing them in the playoffs when we could have eliminated that threat yesterday. 

Yes, let us all thank god that the Ravens were able to beat the Steelers' 4th stringers.  We're all very proud of them.

Cowboys had chance to bury Redskins, and they may face them in 2 weeks, as it certainly not inconceivable Redskins beat Seahawks on Saturday.

/predictions

Redskins over Seahawks
Jaguars over Steelers
Titans over Chargers
Giants over Buccaneers

All road teams win, don't know if that is unprecedented.

Doesn't matter anyway, as Patriots will waltz to SB XLII victory.

ESPN saying the Ravens just fired Billick. Wasn't expecting that.

I figured he was toast and said it earlier in the season even though somebody I was watching game with said "he just signed an extension"… …when your team melts down, calls you & teammates out on public radio broadcast, it means coach ain't in control…

The only rumor going around this morning was that they were going to force him to let his offensive coordinator actually run the offense.  Holy shit.  It's like Christmas all over again.   

Told you. The Giants are choke artists. No matter the fact that they have a better team than the Bucs, they will lose their playoff game next weekend. They just suck under Coughlin at the big game, ANY big game. Their defensive backfield is full of asshats who can't cover a convent's seniors team, much less actual professional NFL receivers. The fact that they even made it close was a miracle.

As for Brady, I don't hate him. He's just a fantastic QB, in a machine-like system that makes mediocre athletes excel, and great athletes into Hall-of-Famers. I hate Randy Moss with a passion, but not just anybody could make those plays. Hell, many NFL receivers couldn't have gotten his hands on that underthrown bomb that preceeded the TD pass. For instance, Reggie Brown of the Eagles? Yeah, he'd have missed it.

The Pats are going 19-0. It sucks, but that's the way it is. The best games left on the schedule will be the Pats-Colts and Cowboys-Packers showdowns.

EDIT: Billick fired for realz (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3175037).

Probably for the best. Offensive genius he was not. The Ravens were fucking awful this year once McNair started getting hurt. Who wants to bet on John Fox (Carolina) being the next guy shitcanned? Him or the dude in Miami.

I really hate not being able to post at work.  I think Stray covered how ridiculous your assumptions are not to mention flat out making stuff up out of whole cloth to justify your irrational hatred of someone you have never met.

Can we not resurrect that?  Conversation's over. It's O-fucking-K to lose on the internet.


Cameron is likely since they just fired the GM.  I think Fox stays, Delhomme went out early for them and the drop off from him was huge.

Anyone watch the Ravens game and think that perhaps Troy Smith might not be that bad of a pro quarterback given some time to develop?

Maybe.  The Boller experiment is most likely over, but right now you could throw Brady behind that offensive line and he'd be out by week 5 with multiple concussions.    Before we go sacrifice another QB, I'd like to make sure he gets some protection.

I like him - he can throw, he can run, he's looked good but made mistakes (as you would expect a rookie QB to make). Moreover, he's the best QB on their roster (including McNair in his current state, obviously a 1999-2002 era McNair would be superior but that is not the McNair that is now McNair…)  which means he should play, experience or no experience.

I'd be looking to see if Grant has made any large deposits from men with crooked noses of late.

In the "obvious dumbass is obvious" department:

Pacman Jones was in a strip club. Again.

This time he punched a woman... who happens to be an attorney. Lulz.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3197653 

Tigers don't change their stripes. This guy isn't going to stop going to strip clubs and getting into trouble until he's either dead or in jail. Hopefully the latter.

Just like Falcons players don't stop murdering dogs, no matter how many years they serve.  :awesome_for_real:

He could change. He just might not get the opportunity before his life is turned upside down.

When you literally tell the Football commissioner you're going to stay out of clubs, then you punch a divorce-lawyer who is involved in one of your own cases INSIDE a strip club, you've crossed the line from ordinary stupid into superhuman stupid.

Holy crap, that's some epic fail at life there.

I mean, you have a shitton of money from playing football. That almost never-ending faucet of money, fame and celebrity will continue to RAIN down upon you, so long as you don't fuck it up. All you have to do is not shoot at people, not beat up strippers and stay out of the clubs. Seriously, HOW FUCKING HARD IS THAT? If you just don't do these things, you will be financially set for fucking life, you ignorant cunt. Is it really that hard to choose NOT to go into a club? Is it that hard to not punch a bitch attorney in the face?

What a goddamn failure as a human being.

Ghetto mentality. He'd rather piss it all away and "keep it real" than be disrespected in front of his homies. I'm sure the lawyer knew this and played him like a fiddle - female lawyers don't generally frequent strip clubs, I would imagine.

She may have been there on business (lawyer business, not the other kind) since the incident happened in the manager's office.

So a female lawyer is above looking at some titties?  What if she's lesbian?  Bi-sexual?  Or, hanging out with friends? 

What you do for a living or how much education you have has no bearing how much class you have.  And further to that, going to a strip club doesn't necessarily mean you're scum.

No, it doesn't. However, getting in trouble once, pronouncing your avoidance of such establishments and then getting busted again later, does scream scumbucket.

Sure she could have been there by chance, not saying it's impossible. It just would not surprise me in the least if she went there at least hoping to provoke him into doing something stupid.

Edit - Story now says she was there for a divorce case involving the strip club, not involving Pacman. So no, looks like she was just there and he was so stupid he couldn't help hitting her.

McNair is announcing his retirement this afternoon.   An absolutely great QB in his time, but one that I'm glad to see retire while he has some amount of dignity left instead of dragging the team down for another season.

Didn't realize he played for so long. Didn't seem like it.

They can finally take that airtran billboard down now.

Oh, football news?  Anyone want Johnson, Cincinnati's fed-up with him.. just like that no-goonick Corey Dillon! Feh, and what happened to HIM when he left Cinci because he bitched like a 3 year old?  :oh_i_see:

I'll just be happy to see Johnson out my division.  :grin:    I know there's a LOT of talk that he might end up in Philly, but that could be wishful thinking on their part. 

I've been hearing he might end up in Tampa Bay.

 :drill:

We love high-priced, high-profile WRs who tend to underperform in crunch time!

Chad Johnson is one of the few mouthy wideouts I actually do like. I'm sure he just got fed up with not being the marquee guy and playing on a team whose defense chokes more than a pornstar at a gangbang.

Also, McNair retiring is sad. What was sadder is seeing him get pounded behind some really shitty offensive lines, taking a lot more bad hits than he should have.

If I was an NFL owner, I would vote to remove the forward pass from the game and eliminate the WR position altogether. 8 out every 10 self-involved loudmouth asshats seem to play WR. Be nice to hear the deafening silence as they are standing in the unemployment line.

The Ravens need a front four that does something more than just lay down the red carpet for the defense.  It shortened McNair's career, all but ruined Boller's chances, and will kill Smith if they go with him as the QB.   With Ogden retiring (once he stops being coy about it), hopefully we'll see some trades and drafts to protect whomever ends up in the hot seat.

McNair had a great career and its sad to see him go, but honestly, I certainly wasn't real happy to hear that he was originally planning on coming back this year.  Even before he got started in on the injuries, it was pretty obvious that he was struggling and had lost a step.
The injuries just exacerbated the problem.

Funny how that is. It's because WR's can score points but they hardly ever get hit. It's probably the biggest pussy job in the whole sport next to kicking. You don't hear runningbacks talk a lot of shit because they are always getting beat up. If they start talking trash, the O-line just has to take one play off for them to shut up for good.

Not to mention that in order for them to do ANYTHING, the quarterback has to be on target.

WR's get hit plenty. In an open field fashion at that.

Not to say there aren't loudmouths, but gtfo out of the football thread if you don't like wide receivers.

Also, you guys are too white for your own good.

Also, I'm as serious as you are. At least I hope.

I looked over the schedule.  I have to miss 5 games and grit my teeth through a 6th when watching my team in a bar because we're playing in the same timeslot as the Eagles.  I'd rather steal the coverage via internet streaming or even pay espn to watch or listen online then deal with their fucking brand of stupid postering.

Fuck anyone from Philly, it has always been and always will be my least favorite fucking city just for all the asshats who come to California from there, go home you stupid fuckwads.

5 primetime games for the Browns, including 3 MNF games!  9th in strength of schedule!  That all screams regression to 6-10  :awesome_for_real:

I remember The Tackle. Super Bowl XXXIV. Sad to see McNair go without a ring.

(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26/stuabrtow/The_Tackle_SBXXXIV.jpg)


Also, Chad Johnson is a chucklehead!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgNREzBAnY4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgNREzBAnY4)

Girls Just Wanna Have Fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMuvjLcuvTI&feature=related)

Honestly, do you even watch football? Slot receiver + Safety = Bone jarring monster hits 95% of the time.

If I fell into the chasm, sorry. (Also, I see Stray's post and raise it one seriousness.)

Fixed it for ya.

You're a Bears fan. What do you know about passing offense?  :drill: :grin:

Wow you are a classy fucking idiot.  He got hit so damn hard in that game.

Nobody would ever accuse the guy of being smart but he loves football and he loves to win.  He loves himself too but that comes 3rd which is a great deal better then at least half the #1 WR's in the league.  I dont know why I'm even getting involved, f13 doesn't get sports for shit.  Thats how I feel every time I ever read a sports thread around here...

He loves football and he loves to win, but he loves himself more than anything.

Give me a goddamned break, your all knowing holiness.

Yeah they are taking major shots all the time. Oh wait, no. Most of the plays in football, a wideout runs down the field and then runs back to the huddle. Awww, you got touched by the safety? Hell, that's hardly even allowed by the rules anymore because they are pussies. Almost EVERY PLAY a runningback is taking a hit or making a block. Every play an O-line guy is taking a major block in the trenches.

Wideouts are almost as Johnny-One-Job as kickers. They just happen to be out there every play. Run a pattern, try not to fucking drop it, on the 25% chance the QB sees you. That's it. Period. Watch one try to actually block if someone runs their way. It's pure comedy. And yet they have this Jesus walk about the job like it's curing the blind.

A RB is getting blocked and forced down more than smacked. Besides that, they're taught to truck once they lose their balance anyways, instead of waiting to get outright slammed down (that more often occurs behind the o line for them i.e. in an open field..and they rarely get caught there).

WR's block too.

I just have to ask... Have you ever even played WR -- I mean, against another good team? Be honest now. That was always my position at least. I know what it feels like to get hit, and it isn't always pleasant. Safety or linebacker, it doesn't matter. Besides that, once you make a TD, you're probably the most hated offensive player on the field, more than the QB even. Everyone wants to hit you harder than usual.

I will definitely give it to the RB position as being a helluva lot more tiring though.

Anyways, I really don't want to get into argument as to which one is more "legimate". It's silly.

No I played Tight End. You can guess at why I hated Wide Outs because of that. They were usually the fastest but least team-oriented players I'd ever seen. Plus I had to have twice the hands they did just to stay at my position, and be able to block.

This conversation got weird.  All I was pointing out was this - say whatever you want about Chad Johnson, that clip on the Tubes shows him after a *massive* concussion earned by taken a shot over the middle.  It's an interesting piece of evidence in the "WRs are Pussies" debate.

Being a Bears fan means I know a lot about how not to run a passing game.

Well shit man! I figured a tight end would understand at least. Surely you've been hit good at least once. Same kind of hits at least.

I played safety in the Big 10.  I enjoyed being on the giving end of a few shots to WR's and TE's.  I have fond memories of quarterbacks throwing high over the middle.  Damnit, now I'm drooling. 

Back to the topic, WR's do take their share of shots.  As a result, the top tier WR's are significanly bigger than they were in my playing days.  At the NFL level they take a lot more abuse than many realize. 

[edit] Eh, nevermind.  :-)

Great, now I'm picturing Gordon Ramsay running accross a football field, screaming "It's Fucking Raw!!!" just before hitting someone.

You think Philly would want a possible Terell 2.0 situation?  I have my doubts.

I think it's a bit funny to see T.J. Houshmandzadeh (championship) giving his 2 cents on the subject.  He is basically saying that Chad is too much of a distraction to keep right now.  I think TJ wouldn't mind becoming the #1 man in town (could be argued he is now with 112 receptions) - with Chris Henry about to be suspended for life, and Chad Johnson "larger than lifie"ing himself out of Cincy.  He may be right, it may be right for the team to move on...but players shouldn't be able to pull this shit year after year.

I think the previous argument is fucked-up IMO.  I won't argue that many WR's are whiny pre-madonna bitches, but a big difference between a bitch and a pussy. Anquan Boldin, Hines Ward, Steve Smith, Roy Williams are far from pussies.

What's got my interest right now in the NFL is the Draft and the controversy over the having the #1 or one of the first 5 picks.  It's out of control, when a rookie (Jemarcus Russel)  can hold a team hostage, then be given a bigger contract than the NFL Defensive Player of the Year (Bob Sanders)...without even taking a snap? Crazy. Gaines Adams making more than Strahan? Crazy.  Great article in ESPN Mag right now about the situation.

Yeah, I did, and yeah they take hits. I'm not saying they don't take occasional brutal punishment. It's football, not Jenga. What I am saying is that on offense they take the least contact of any player on the field, unless your O-line is fucking godly and your QB is built like a behemoth.

It's not really about that though. The hits was a side issue thing, and I'm content to let that issue of it go. It was the idea that they were curing cancer by catching passes, and fucking hotdogging in the endzone like morons. The coach would light them up for it every time, but it wouldn't stop them. Fuck the haters, yo, we're out to get ours, etc.

It's that kind of shit. I respect the hell out of any WR who is good at what they do and doesn't play into that nonsense. Jerry Rice, Wes Welker (because he's tiny and white but still in the NFL), Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith, Hines Ward, etc.

My favorite player is still Ben Watson because of the Georgia Bulldog TE connection. I think he's a great guy having gone to school with him and known him through his girlfriend at the time who is now his wife. We were both in the Georgia Leadership Scholars program together.

I read an interesting article a few years back that found a correlation between loudmouth WRs and higher paying contracts. Not sure if I buy into the article, but I should try and dig it up.

Maybe not the right place to post this and I am sure it has been posted elsewhere already, but being unable to find it I wonder: anyone of you guys playing Goal Line Blitz (http://goallineblitz.com)?

Not much to play there actually (although you can be a Owner/Manager/Coach or a Player (or a multitude of them), it's all about bantering over the boards and hoping to win. But somehow, lots of fun. Especially if your team ends up in the League Superbowl (which is tomorrow, 1pm) upsetting the only undefeated and smack-talking team and you've been the hero of the match with 2 interceptions.

There's a EVE-kind of logic so the sooner you get into the game the stronger you'll be over new players, so if you plan to check it do it as soon as you can. Season one only started 20 days ago and Season 2 is starting in 3 days.

This necro-post is brought to you by the following statement:

Fuck Brett Favre. 

What now?  I don't see any new news on him. 

Is there some news that would cause me to go all Nerf on your ass for that comment about "The Man^TM "?

Buzz is that he's told people he wants to play.  Which in all likelihood means it's now a certainty he'll be back.  Go find your clipboard, Mr. Rodgers.

Can't really blame him.  Especially with guys like Testaverde around as an example.  Hell, I would have played football until today if it weren't for silly little things like health and eligibility. 

If he comes back, it would have to be as a starter from day one. Can't let the streak break to be backup to your protege.

And if he does come back, damn I will need to get a TV before September I guess!

How many goddamn Brett Favre coronation seasons do I have to sit through? He retired. He cried on national TV.  Tears mean no take backs, damnit.

 :tantrum:

My mouth is agape in horror with the thought of having to listen to Chris Berman talk about Brett Favre for another season.  :ye_gods:

Are you, perchance, a Bears fan?

No, just someone that is really, really tired of the Brett Favre retirement epic.

I do have a Bears T-shirt, however.  Wife bought me one on a business trip.

Don't forget the Favre man-love trough that is John Madden. 

Fuck, I love me some Brett Favre, but I do not want to see him comeback. Once you hang it up, really, just learn to hang it up. Don't be Michael Jordan. Know when to stop. Even if he would be better than many of his younger peers, he still wouldn't be what made him so good.

He is like a horror movie villain. It will take a beheading to end this.

I would agree that he coming back now seems shitty. You sat there and poured your heart out to the public and we all had a good awww moment over it. Now, you shit on that moment if you walk back out there. We all knew he was still "young" and could play.

I hope he listens to his family and doesn't do this. I can't believe his wife thinks this is a good idea.

Maybe he'll go play baseball for a while.

I just glanced through this whole thread and I have to say reading Haem's posts was pure comedy.  I'm just sad that the thread ended really with shitty talk with Tom Brady been a dad and no comments on the playoffs.  (Maybe it's a different thread I have to search for?)

Anyway good stuff Haem.

The Brett Favre thing is getting really ugly really fast.

Well, the second they release him, he signs with Minnesota and it would get *really* ugly.  If Farve wants to go back on his retirement this quickly, they have every right to control the impact on their franchise that his return represents.  They should be able to get some draft picks for him, at least.

Nobody is going to give draft picks for a one-year guy.  The Packers are being incredibly stupid about this.  They'll fight and fight and eventually release him, only Favre will hate them and never want to appear in Green Bay for so much as a goodwill visit ever again. 

Jesus, why can't Favre just retire? Why does he have to do this every year? It got real old two years ago, and got better last year because he didn't leave everyone hanging. This year though... come on, the organization has already moved on, as they should. The team should get something for him if he wants to come back and doesn't want to do it on their terms. They have him under contract.

I love Brett Favre, but hang it up. Please. Don't make this an ugly soap opera.

Interview on FoxNews at 10pm ET with Greta Van Susteren.   :awesome_for_real: 

Best part is the advertisement for "Brett Favre: The Tribute" next to the article for this.

I would like the Packers to stick to their guns for this.  Seems less possible every single day, but I have hope.

I don't think Farve actually wanted to come back to begin with, but then the Packers had to fuck the whole thing up and say he COULDN'T come back. Throw out the fact that it's a stupid way of dealing with anyone normal, they didn't seem to think about the legions of fans that would take offense to this as well. Of course he CAN come back.

Still, Favre sounds like an ass in the interview.