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The NHL is officially on strike (http://www.nhlcbanews.com/news/bog_meeting091504.html)

And nobody is more pissed off than I am. Not only because the NHL has been trying to push this under the rug all during the off-season, but also because this will do nothing but cripple the small chance that hockey will become a national sport. It's already behind in the rankings of almost everything else in America, but now they give the big middle finger to the fans with this.

Honestly, hockey has to contract. There is really no other option. They got too big, too fast, and they need to pull back and re-examine not only the talent, but which teams should even exist. The players have been spread way to thin by expansion, and the contracts for the best players are killing lesser teams financially. A team like Carolina or Nashville can't compete with the Dallas Stars and Detroit Redwings of the league financially. The market just isn't there, and it was forced upon them. Even though I live in Atlanta, I gut most of the teams in the Southeastern Division today. I think the league needs to go from 30 teams to 20 at the most. I would be happy with 16 really.

My cuts right now would be:

Carolina
Nashville
Pheonix
Atlanta
Columbus
Florida
Washington
Buffalo
Pittsburg (I don't like it, but they are doomed)
Minnesota

Any ideas from the other fans out there?

woah take Minnesota off there. Thats exactly the sorta place you want hockey, people up there are actually hockey fans and they sell out that building regularly.

Howabout Anaheim? and even though they won the Cup, Tampa Bay (any team that only gets 30,000 ppl to show up to their victory parade deserves to be contracted).

And those Canadian teams are on some shaky ground financially...Calgary or Ottawa anyone?.

Lets get harsh, who gives a flying about New Jersey?

Hockey was fucked as soon as they changed the names of the conferences and divisions to make it easier for casual fans, and then started expanding into warm weather (non-traditional) markets. Couple that with the gargantuan leap in salaries, increasingly onerous penalties for fighting/enforcing, giant goalie pads and gimmick defenses to cripple scoring, and the retirement of the Great One, and it is a serious uphill climb.

They need to go back and look at hockey in the early to mid 80s and find a way to recapture that. Find a way for Canadian teams to compete with their crippling exchange rate disadvantage so more 'pure' fans can enjoy the rooting for their home team. Dump the goddamned instigator rule. Start calling shit like holding, hooking, and all the other interference penalties that make it impossible to set up any kind of an offense.

Make Don Cherry commissioner. It would certainly be entertaining!

Certainly would be when his first move is to ban all European players..heh.

I think they could earn a spot by dropping their gloves every now and then. Grapes can respect that, even if they have too many vowels in their name.

Fun way to waste time at work...play 'Lets contract the NHL!'

Currently Im trying to figure whether to go with 16 or 20 teams...2 confrences, 2 divisions in each conf...Enjoy.

East Conf:
Eastern Div                
BOS                          
MTL
TOR
OTT

Atlantic
PHI
NYR
NJ
NYI

West Conf:

Central:
DET
CHI
STL
MIN

Western:
COL
DAL
LA
VAN

Both sides have shown they don't get a shit about the game so much as the money. And the worst part is both sides are fucking themselves. They both have a helluva lot to gain by working together, but that would mean acknowledging that their side isn't completely right.

Player salaries are too high, but the owners signed those goddamn contracts. Of course, you can't have the owners talking to each other and agreeing not to pay ridiculous contracts, because that's collusion. But since we're talking about "greedy owners" it's ok to hamstring them, which is one of the reasons I really dislike unions. Especially unions that are made up of people who at their lowest ranks, make more money than most normal people do in a year.

So you have unions of millionares trying to push around a union of corporations. And they wonder why hockey isn't getting any sympathy?

The fact that they dicked around on this shit, not even bothering to really talk about it during the World Cup is a fucking disgrace.

Remove touch-up icing, take out the red line, fucking call the shitton of clutching and grabbing and hooking penalties that refs turn a blind eye to and get the game back to where it's supposed to be.

Also, Minnesota definitely shouldn't be on the contraction list. That is a market that is juiced about hockey, from the kids level on up. They turn a profit with a system designed to not overpay players. In my mind, they are the perfect prototype for a small market team.

Ottawa, yes. Calgary, no. Calgary did well this past season and all though they didn't win the cup, they generated alot of revenue off their almost success. The Edmonton Oilers can be cut. I haven't heard a thing about them in a long time. Plus, I don't think Alberta needs 2 hockey teams.

As for the expansion teams, some need to be cut. I don't know why they added most of them in the first place. It's nice that they're trying to get more people involved in hockey, but I think they fucked that idea in the ass when they tried that stupid light up puck bull shit.

Who cares?  It's hockey.  I'll weep for men's tennis (alas, poor Andre) long before I'll give a damn about hockey

Bruce

Mens Tennis and you play Sims 2. Nuff said. :)

Why all those expansion teams? Expansion fees that why. Owners got greedy and extremely shortsighted.

My rule change? Remove the '80's Oilers' rule..ie Where fighting majors are served without taking a player off the ice...They put it in because the Oilers would delibrately start fights because they could exploit their speed and skill in a 4 on 4 game so much better. Im not going to go as far as having 4 on 4 all the time but it certainly livens up the game at times. Harder to clutch and grab when there is only 8 skaters on the ice.

Financially speaking you could probably make an arguement to contract all the Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto.

As a Bruins fan I'd contract Montreal though, just to spite 'em.:)

Hey, so do I.  Well, I'm only really playing Sims 2 until I get my copy of Fable for my birthday. And it's not like I paid for it...

And men's tennis? Gotta love it right now.  You've got the best player to grace the game since Pete Sampras in Rodger Federer.  The guy has probably the best all around skill set to ever grace the game and the guy just keeps getting better.  Living legend and he's only 22.   Plus you've got Roddick, a solid #2 who sometime this decade will break 160mph on his serve.  This is a lot better than the women's game that's about to lose Lindsay Davenport and is seeing the Williams sisters' careers (although I despise both of them) on a down slope and the meteoric rise of the Russian women.  



So, did he announce his retirement?  I'd have a hard time feeling sorry for his recent woes (he's feeling his age). He's been one of the game's greats and has had suprising longevity in a game where you're over the hill once you cross 30.  Plus he's married to the greatest women's player EVER.

Tennis is a great game if you're willing to accept that it's an international affair with the world pulling ahead of the US.  Eep, I have something in common with Bruce.

He hasn't retired yet, but you can sense it coming.  It's just that the man has had such ups and downs, and I was really hoping he'd have another peak (i.e. win another open) so he could go out and retire on that.

Sampras was more consistently better than Agassi, but when Agassi was at his best, he could beat Sampras at his best.  Then again, you could argue that Sampras wasn't at his best at those times. :)

I'm not a girly man, though.  I also like NFL, and I try to follow MLB even though most of the games are boring as hell to watch.

Bruce

Godamn hijackers where's GSG when you need em..

Must..not..talk..men's..tennis...

Ahh can't resist, its gone downhill since Pat Rafter left, he was the man. Fun to watch , funny on the court and extremely courteous. Nothing like hearing a 'Sorry mate' when he muffed his serve.

And Im not that fond of Lleyton even if he is from Oz. He's a punk.

Oh yeah and bring back Gabriella Sabatini...mmm mmm.

Now back to hockey talk you girlie men.

Quoted for truth.  Honestly, I'd like to see the NHL go 4-on-4 all the time, since I have no faith that NA refs will ever call obstruction penalties.  It's like the NHL is the NBA's retarded twin.  While the NBA bent the rules so you could see Jordan blow by the double team and make a highlight reel basket or assist (nevermind the push off), the NHL bent the rules so you could see one no-talent grunt grab two fistfuls of Lemieux's jersey while another waterskied behind him with a solid hook.  I don't really approve of either rule-bending, but the NBA's at least made sense from a marketing perspective.

On the derail, men's tennis has been almost unwatchable for over 10 years now for me.  Technology has transformed what was once a powerful but also graceful game where you'd frequently see very different styles, long rallies, lots of net play and bold strategy choices into  a game with 2 kinds of points: the 5,000 MPH service ace, and the 5,000 MPH service return winner.  ZZZzzzZZZZZzzzz.  I'll take Borg-McEnroe on ESPN Classic over any Federer match.  Go back to wood.  Huh huh, wood.

The women's game is getting to be almost as bad.

Have you actually watched Federer play? While I'll agree that the technology is really stunting the development of many of the upcoming players, he's got a game that would be at home in any era.  I'd wager he could win a great deal of his games playing with old school timber.  Most players nowadays are just so hitched to the technolgy that they're not developing all court games and instead relying on their 130mph serve and 100mph forehand taught to them by Nick Boliteri.  However, in the top 6, only one player is a pure rocket serve, rocket forehand type (Roddick).  

Of course, if you still want to see some good old fashion, 100 stroke rallies, watch the dirt ballers during the French open. Damn Spaniards and Argentines are really at home on the surface.

Tennis (men's) got bad for a stretch around the time Sampras stepped down and around the time that Hewitt's was #1.  But as a life long fan, it's been great the last couple of years.  The women's side is starting to get a bit hard to watch though.  Bad tennis (more unforced errors than winners) seems to be the rule of the day.

And I could give two shits about hockey. The only fun I had with that sport was watching the collegiate club level with some hockey nut friends. And that's just mostly because they were hooligans that nearly got thrown out of every match we went to.

I think watching the grass at Wimbledon grow would be equally entertaining as watching the tournament there. I would even be willing to pay the same price for the privilege, equal to 1 plucked pubic hair.

I just don't get the appeal of tennis. It bores the living shit out of me. Much like NASCAR or any other motor sport (although hydro racing is passably entertaining the 1 day a year I watch it).

STFU and go back to hockey talk, or you will have this guy to deal with-

(http://www.andreaudet.com/_photos/don_cherry.jpg)


He will kick your ass and then make you dress like him.

This was fucking great news for the upcomming Swedish Eliteseries as alot of the Swedish NHL pro's have resigned with their old clubs.

Modo will probably kick ass this year with Forsberg, Näslund, the Sedin brothers and Salo to name a few. Luleås powerplay got a big boost from Holmström joining them, their def has been reinforced with Öhlund. And my own fav player Sundin will be comming back to Djurgården.

Seems a few Canadian players are looking for contracts here aswell so this will truly be a kickass year for Swedish hockey.

Here's hoping the lockout will be a loooooooong one.

No Av's this year. How the hell will I get though the winter withought my mandatory Red Wings HATE session? Goddamn NHL.

Daeven, go out and see the T-Birds. They a restricting seating to the lower bowl only this year, so the games will have more of an intimate feel- should feel more like the old Mercer Arena! Home opener is 10/9 against Cevik's hated Winterhawks.

Thunderbirds hockey in Key Arena is cool. Cheap tickets for even front row seats, and WHL is exciting hockey to watch. Caught every game I could as I was staying 2 blocks away during hockey season.

Same goes for college baseball (and softball) and aluminum bats. Tennis used to be a an exciting spectator sport, now it's painful to watch even for someone who likes to play (at least more than a few minutes...).

My slam on Federer was unfair, to be honest I have not watched him much.  I guess I just assumed he was another baseline thug like everyone else.  My friend who likes to watch golf (yes, I am ashamed to say that, but then again he has a friend who plays EQ and posts on f13.net so I guess I should shut up) says the same thing about technology destroying the game.

Women's tennis is still watchable [perv]at least until Sarena retires[/perv].

Alright, I'll take Minnesota off my list, it is a well liked hockey market. I was simply looking at the most recent expansion clubs and they are one of them. I know the Stars are based on their history, so they got a raw deal on the move.

I agree with duming Edmonton, and I'd even dump Ottawa if pressed. Anaheim can get the ax as well. I'd try to look at the original as my base and work my way out from there. Two Canadian teams must go, and I don't care which ones really.

See the thing about the Canadian markets is that the folks there live and breath hockey.  Edmonton has something silly like 150 Arenas for minor hockey in it, not to mention all the you know "NATURAL OCCURING" ice in the area that kids play hockey on in the winter.  If Edmonton can't support a team right now due to finances then that's why the league has to restructure their agreement so they can.  I'm not looking at it from a business perspective but more a "town that actually has a clue what that little black thing on the ice is without the aid of blue and red streakies" perspective.  

If I had my druthers every team below the 40th parallel would be axed and pretty much every American team that wasn't in the original 6 would be gone too.  It's sad this CBA re-negotiation didn't happen before Winnipeg and Quebec City got shafted, I hope the players get a crushing cap, because I blame escalating salaries completely for the problems facing the Canadian teams.

That, and I'm planning on going to lots of DU games. Lots and lots. :)

Sportsnet in BC is planning on carrying Modo games during the lockout, so at least I'll have that.

Those of you talking contraction, give it up. Neither side would ever allow it.

Those of you talking Tennis in a Hockey thread:  May you be on the receiving end of a Rob Blake hipcheck.

True that contraction will never happen, but its something to pass the time at work with.

Howabout two conferences..North and South...Canadian vs American.

EDM, CAL, MTL, TOR, OTT, VAN vs

DET BOS NYR CHI MIN COL

Seriously, you guys advocating having canadian teams cut are clueless. Here in Canada hockey is huge, cut out stupid southern usa teams and more them to winnipeg, quebec city and hamilton instead.

Hockey will never be a true american national sport because it's not natural to most of the USA (NO ICE prevents major grassroots growth). Only the foolish, greedy american lawyers (bettman, union reps) and owners (wanting expansion fees) pushed the expansion so rapidly. Most true hockey fans would've been happy with just 6, or maybe a dozen teams. Think about moving teams to europe where there's great support for hockey.

Get the salaries under control, to the point where small market teams don't have to worry about having firesales. I don't think the players are naturally greedy, most of them would've given anything to grow up and play hockey for a living, and would do it at 1950 level salaries, It's the union lawyers and agents who push them to ask for ridiculous salaries, so they can line their own pockets like parasites. Unfortunately the NHL/NHLPA's current administration may be too firmly entrenched to achieve this and a new league built from the ground up might be necessary. Oh well, I'll still be playing ice hockey every winter, both indoors and out, as will millions of other canadians, europeans and even americans. When the time is right, pro hockey will return in a dignified form, hopefully shedding itself of years of greed and incompetant managment. Until then, the great game of hockey will still be widely played, real fans don't need the NHL.

So in 2035 Canada will take up sandlot Volleyball instead. (http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0409/feature1/index.html)

Um, how about you get a Canadian team to win the Cup once this decade and we'll talk about need to have them around in the NHL. Calgary had the best shot so far and blew it. I'm not dogging the Canadian love for the sport, but if you can't support your teams, too bad. In the report by Levitt, 19 teams had operating losses in 2003. Twelve of those 19 were over $10M. I simply say no matter where you are or what you are doing, if you lose over $10M a year, you don't deserve to be a hockey club in the NHL.

They lose money because theyre either in a place with no fanbase and can't match salaries (most of the american teams) or are too small market even though they have good support (some canadian ones, buffalo, minnesota) and need to keep salaries uncompetitively low or lose money.

Your little cheapshot at canadian teams is laughable considering montreal won 11 years ago, oops, not 10 though (throw that one on the pile of 23 other cups)  and tampa, despite being an "american" team had all it's superstars hailing from eastern canada and northern europe, yeah real american heroes there buddy. Personally I was cheering for tampa because their team is way more canadian than calgary, which is a rotten city also.

Lots of real hockey towns have their NHL franchise bleeding money because this canadian/european game was hijacked by greedy americans (not all the american owners/lawyers/agents are bad, I think George Gillette is a great owner of the habs, way better than those cheap stiffs at Molson), the league needs to return to it's roots and be about the fans and a love of the game, like the CFL is, and not try and be all hype and greed like NFL in comparison.

It has nothing to do with support. Calgary didn't make the playoffs for 7 yrs and they still were getting more fans to the games then a large portion of the American teams. You basically can't get a ticket to a Canucks or Leafs game unless you know someone and the support in Edmonton is phenomenal. The Heritage Classic wasn't some gimmick to try to get Edmontonians out to more games. Montreal had some issues a few years back, but they're just about as passionate about their team as any other team out there. To suggest hockey is struggling because Canadians don't support their teams is idiotic.



Rotten city wtf?

Wow, that's pretty damn cool.

Modo Hasn't been very good since the mid 90's but things are looking up for them now, specially since Forsberg and Salo signed contracts that will last even when the lockout ends.

I have high hopes this will be very beneficial to Swedish hockey. It helps future players to see their heroes play in their own arenas.

Dude a Canadian team did win the Cup last year.  Tampa Bay: 3 -Russians, 3 - Czech's, 2 Americans, 1 Swede and 13 Canadians.

Far as Edmonton - they lost 13Million last year and sold out roughly 75% of their games.  If that's not supporting the team than I don't know what.  They can't keep the players they have to remain competitive and without shelling out silly salaries those players wind up on the NY Rangers...  The exchange rate factors in huge on salary issues as well for Canadian teams.  One more point on Edmonton - they've moved their minor team there for the duration of the strike.  I'm taking a safe bet here and assuming the American minor affiliates aren't needed to be rushed in to give the locals their hockey fix during the NHL strike.

Honestly, I sorta hope the NHL does fold and a new CHL type leauge comes out of it.  Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon (Sorry Regina, Saskatoon's got the better Arena), Winnipeg, Ottawa, Toronto, Hamilton, Montreal, Quebec City, Halifax and St. John's.  Make things more focused on regional Hockey - shorter season (40-50 Games) so games actually mean something, and play off for the Stanley cup against the top European club teams.  (Swedes, Finns, Russians and Czech's).  Only thing is the Cup trustees handed over the cup lock stock and barrel to the NHL in the 50's and it's probaly nigh on impossible to pry it out of their deathgrip.  Sad because I doubt the Allan cup is a suitable replacement as an award for the best hockey team in the Dominion.

More - check this out:  Strike and we take your Cup (http://www.canoe.ca/Slam040621/col_lankhof-sun.html)


Current Stanley cup trustees are Brian O'Neill (NHL VP under Clarence Campbell) and Ian "Scotty" Morrison (NHL referee-in-chief during Campbell era, then Hall of Fame CEO).  Wonder if they'd have the balls come April to say - go for it to the amateur/minor teams.  Would be a freaking uproar in Canada if there weren't playoffs, and Molson/Labatts would be screwed.

I've thought for many years that the NHL should be divided up into different leagues.

CHL West, CHL EAST, USHL West, USHL East, and a few european leagues.

The winner of those various leagues would meet at the end of the year and compete in a winner take all competition. Kinda of like what the Memorial Cup is to junior hockey each year, but with European teams thrown in the mix.

The NHL needs a radical change and it needs to be marketed to those interested in it, instead of forced into areas that don't care.

It ain't just a Canadian thing - Pittsburgh and Buffalo are big hockey towns and there NHL games draw bigger ratings than NBA games. While Pittsburgh doesn't sell out like they used to, they still nearly fill the arena yet these small market teams are bleeding financially, despite rabid interest by hockey enthusiasts.

One conference Canadian vs conference USA..6-8 teams each..

The Stanley Cup would be great because now you have a bit of national rivalry on the line...

Actually thinking about this a bit more it might not be such a good idea. The Canadians would probably get a bit too worked up, espcially if they lost a few cups in a row to a US team,  and pity a poor Canadian born player who leaves to go play for a US team...

Yep. Here in Denver the TV ratings for the Av's rival those of the Broncos. You would not believe the number of ice rinks that have sprouted up for youth hockey leagues.

The problem comes when smaller market teams are selling out arenas and yet still can't field a competitive product because of batfuck insane player salaries. I will have to blame both the NHLPA, which gets cred by pumping up player salaries higher, and owners like those of the Rangers who pay obscene fucking salaries for has-been, broke down players and yet still can't field a competitve team.

If your team is selling out every night yet still can't afford at least one or two of the best players, the economics R BROKE. I can't think of any business that pisses away 70% of its revenues on employees. I'm not going so far as to say it's all the player's fault, because I'd take the money if I could get it.

But clearly something is wrong.

Supposdly the sticking point right now is the players refuse to accept a salary cap and the owners refuse to accept the players proposal of a really really nasty luxury tax.

Why exactly they cant agree on what basically amounts to the same thing I dont know.

Because both side's lawyers are billing out at $100 an hour, and making a mint on the hold-out negotiations. It's like a bad divorce trial.

I'm wondering if out the other end of this mess we'll actually get to see hockey again instead of "Fight Night on Skates".

I think all of the senseless thuggery has chased away a portion of the fanbase.  Clean up the game and they will start making money again.  I used to be a rabid hockey fan (growing up in Minnesota does that to a guy), but I find myself watching only college and international hockey now.  If they put real hockey back out on the ice, I know I'd pay to watch it.

Actually its not the fighting thats the problem. Crowds love the occasional brouhaha. No the problem is the absolutely ridicolous amount of hooking, holding, clutching, grabbing, spearing etc that goes on which turns the game into a steaming pile of turd. The problem there is how do you have both players AND refs completely change the way they play and call the game. Not easy thats for sure.

Oh and ban the trap.