f13.net

My span is really, really short (http://www.f13.net/index2.php?subaction=showfull&id=1095102897&archive=&start_from=&ucat=2&).

Yknow as i was reading this article, a special thought occurred to me that I figured I should sha----ooh, shiny!

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

I was going to comment on something, but then I rememberd that my pre-order of Fable will be here on wednesday. So now I have to go run on the Hamster Wheel of Doom.

*poing*

Consumer Whores for the WIN!

Fable!! Where? Where? Must have...


Oh. Look at the kitty.

Nevermind.

Bruce

Deleted and moved.  Ich bin ein drunkard.

What the hell?  Have the forum threads become corrupted?  Oh well, I'll move my post...


Bruce

I buy old games all the time.  I generally act rude and surly when the Gamestops and EBs of the world tell me to preorder.  I try to explain how damaging the games industry via this preorder crap, and how waiting on a game to see reviews, or when its cheaper, or holy spit!  I actually have the money to BUY the game instead of putting myself further in debt with that fantastic plastic.  Then the shopclerks look at me like I just dropped trou right in the store and started masturbating.  This logic blows their mind.

At least two mmogs are bringing new gameplay and a hope for wider audiences in their first expansion, SWG, and the afore mentioned CoH.  It will be interesting to see if any others follow suit if the experiments are visibly successful.

Although I find it difficult to see it fit in other games.

I have visions of a savage like gameplay experience in WoW with an expansion giving some RTS elements to the battlegrounds.  They will have npcs, why not npcs under control of humans from third person RTS camera?  Balancing player characters vs those who want to play the RTS will be hard though.  Too many people wanting to play in RTS mode would hurt those who were having fun with the old style battlegrounds.

Maybe  a PVP expansion for EQ2, rebalancing the powers for multiplayer while not changine them in single player.  (the only way I envision CoV to work as well)

It could also be interesting if WoW did not so much a 3rd person mode rts but the ability to have your characters in game give commands to peons to build things and lead attacks.

That could be some pretty interesting combat for folks who loved WC3 to BE the hero unit in the game and it would probably be something that would appeal to them alot.

kaid

I actually have the opposite problem. Most of the RPGs I like to play have *too much* gameplay and end up having trouble finishing them. Some examples:

Star Ocean 3: 70 hours played, just started chapter 3 of 5
Xenosaga: 130+ hours played (lost count after timer maxed at 99:99:59), about 6/7 ways through
Tales of Symphonia: 85+ hours played, finished but skipped most of the mini-games
Disagea: 80+ hours played, not sure how far though I am (maybe 1/3?)

Even ignoring the Japanese (S)RPG segment, the trend I see is extending the length of games rather than shortening it. Games like GTA have obviously popularized "sandbox"-style gaming on consoles (though they've been around forever on desktop computers). Games like Grand Turismo have popularized "unlockable" content (sometimes taking it to a ridiculous extreme). On the PC side you have the now almost ubiquitous level/map editor bundled with FPSes/RTSes and other extensible games. While many of these techniques don't require creating additional unique content (e.g. unlocking a harder difficulty level) extending gameplay time is definitely something many developers seem to be focusing on.

There are of course many games that are very quick to play through but I don't see that as a growing trend, though it could just be the games I play typically aren't that way.

Hmm, maybe my definition of gameplay is different than yours.

How does too much gameplay manifest itself? You realize one day "OMG, I'm still having fun with this game after two months. whats wrong with me" or do you rather say "Wow, when is this game over already, I'm bored"?

I hope you agree the second would not a problem of too much gameplay. For me, levelling treadmills are not gameplay by itself, not even in Single Player games.

Yes, you could fill Planescape Torment (for example) with ridiculously hard enemies you can only kill if you spend 50 hours levelling up on random encounters in some arena world, that wouldn't mean it has 50 hours more gameplay in my opinion.

I subbed up to SWG last night.  It was free and all I had to do was pay the 4 hours patching costs on dial-up.

As I played, I realised that it was just AO.  I mean, it was EXACTLY THE SAME experience I had when I played AO.  

Sure, I was killing things called Womp Rats, but they may as well have been Leets.  Further, I was in a world that I didn't understand and couldn't without either playing all the games that came before to understand the 'evolution' or reading a manual that seems to span the entirety of the internet.

And yet people tell me that WoW is somehow 'better' at allowing you to play.

Well, I hope so.

(If there's anyone out there who can give me free SWG stuff, let me know.)

I can hit you in the head with a tackhammer. That might help.

That wasn't a very christian thing to say!

Screw this games shit- I wanna talk about the football coverage! That goddamned yellow flash on Fox was making me absolutely stabby, and I am glad someone else was annoyed by it. At first I thought the flash was to indicate a change in the score (IE, the team who just scored would flash), but I eventually figured out that they were highlighting the team that was ahead. Guess what, genius? If you make the fucking numbers large enough to be read by your average viewer who is not a bird of prey, I CAN FIGURE OUT WHO IS AHEAD ON MY OWN. Really. I learned all about it in 2nd fucking grade.

Jesus, I think my blood pressure just rose 30 points thinking about it.

That write-up is absolutely brilliant!   It holds many truths and I'm hoping "the right eye" reads that sometime.

I too have been rather unimpressed with the visual diarrhea that has polluted my monitors in the name of a “new game.”

It further slams the nail in the coffin in the MMOG franchise when blindly devoted fans of certain games (see: fanboys) exclaim: “Level treadmills are essential to MMOGs!”  

What these misguided people fail to realize is: levels aren’t even essential to MMOGs at all are actually the finite game design flaw that is leading to companies painting themselves into a virtual corner with each new title released.  

“Maybe we can distract them long enough from realizing they’re playing the exact same crap with new shiny things?” – That seems to be the “innovative” ideas the designers’ of this over-bloated franchise seem to think will fool us after all these years of the same-old, same-old in a new candy-coating.

Nice post. :)

The hard question is, are we the voices of a silent majority , or simply the few misfits who dont fit into the mainstream gaming profile?

Would innovative, no lets say revolutionary, gameplay actually be appealing enough to be finacially viable?

People are hamsters and the treadmill is simple enough, and the carrot good enough to be enjoyable enough for most of them.

The encouraging sign is that a lot of these players arent comfortable enough to just stay with their chosen game and keep switching to the latest and greatest game coming out. Whether this is just a search for the best treadmill or unconsciously these players are actually looking for real change in their gameplay remains to be seen.

I've got more issues with Fox that I won't go into in depth lest I burst a vein. They refuse to broadcast an over-the-air HD feed, they are casting a 480i feed and telling people it's superior to DVD quality, let alone supplying a feed to time-warner, my harsh mistress. And t-w is too cheap to pick up ESPNHD (hint: I'll pay more for it, dipshits), so I pretty much get MNF in HD, and that's that, CBS usually doesn't do HD games, despite having an HD channel. Bah. MNF makes me drool, though, football in HD is the way to be.

I'd say levels are counterproductive to a massively social game, as they are a barrier to community. Using npc levels as a barrier sucks, too. Even the lowliest newbler in UO could have a chance to get a few spell scrolls off on a demon before getting toasted. I just don't like the way teh whole genre progressed, need info on a dimensional shifting device so I can get to the alternate reality where all games followed early UO and not EQ.

Need new carrots, kthx.

Believe me, It'd be the merciful thing to do to anyone that tries to get back into that game.

EDIT: In addition, FOX sports coverage now drives me mostly insane. Ever since they started making computer generated football robots for the promos, and then having darting icons jump across the screen for updates, that was too much. Now it's just out of hand completely. I've seen less flash in 4th of July fireworks finales than in one broadcast. AND WHY THE HELL DO THEY MAKE AN 8 AND A 0 COMPLETELY INDISTINGUISHABLE IN THE SCOLL-BY SCORES? I couldn't tell which teams were winning at times without leaving forehead marks on the screen. Baseball pisses me off too, but mostly because Joe Morgan makes John Madden look good. If that guy ever says anything relevant, its lapsed by the sheer volume of inane prattle.

Sadly, in its state by state poll, SI found that John Madden was sports fans favourite commentator. I wonder if these people are also the same people who love EQ, SWG and WoW...hrrrrm...

Maybe we could have a Madden/Morgan stupidity test. 'Do you like John Madden or Joe Morgan as a sports commentator?'

'yes'

Account disabled.

I like Madden. I was watching MNF and he was talking about loading up to the strong side, then running a weak side counter.

I like guys who can help me understand the game better. Like someone pointing out that that bootleg was actually a missed handoff because the QB was running in the same direction as the back. (Not a smart bootleg usually)

To me there are tow types of announcers: Guys who know more about the sport than I do and can communicate it, and guys who don't or can't. Madden is in category 1.

I wouldn't say he is my favorite, but I'd take Madden/Michaels over Dennis MIller and clowns any day.

Don't be dissing Dennis Miller. He was quite clearly NOT the guy to be broadcasting sports and he made the most of it while cashing his check cheerfully.

I liked Madden, but he's starting to get really hard to understand as he ages. Slurred words and just a general dimwittery. Fox has ok broadcasters, but generally, most broadcasters are just programmed to prattle on and on about stupid shit. Listen to Joe Theismann on ESPN. Holy crap, SHUT THE FUCK UP. I'm glad ESPN added Pat Sumrall in there, because there's someone with a great voice and the ability to cogently describe the action without getting caught up in lingo. When Sumrall and Madden were together, that was a good pairing.

I miss Harry Carey.

Madden isn't a dumbass, he did/does know the game depending on your POV. I've never stated that I thought he didn't know what he was talking about. It's WHAT he's talking about. He can rival Yogi Berra at time for master of the obvious.

Madden: "You can only make one play at a time." Really? Because my bootleg/slant/running/passing combo play looked awesome in my head.

Madden: "You never want to go backwards in the end zone." As opposed to the rest of the field where it's a stellar idea.

Madden: "McNabb is doing the things McNabb does." Great point, I often was wondering if he was going to do the things Richard Simmons does, but that's probably a smart call.

Madden: "He came here to play." You mean he didn't come here to sit on the sidelines and scratch himself? I want my money back.

'Boom! And see that .Boom! Then he goes there BOOM!'

Madden provides me with less than the usual colour commentator does + the annoying booms. He also has repeatadly said he has unparelleled access to the teams before the game but provides us with nothing from that access...Ironic that this thread was about style with no substance....

Mind you Morgan has neither, he maybe a hall of famer but that just means when it comes to colour commentary hes a hall of famer moron.

Could be worse:

(http://espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/walton_bill_hammock.jpg)

Ha ha, I like Walton too. Some of his Walton-isms, like talking about the dead all the time, are really lame. But, his observations about the game and players are usually dead on.

I would like to see Steven A Smith, Michael Irvin and Stuart Scott do play by play...my head would explode in the first 6 seconds.

By the way, Dennis Miller sucks. He was funny 15 years ago, now he is not funny at all and a Republican schill to boot. Comedians becoming overly partisan is usually a bad thing in general - he's taken it to the point where the actual comedy has been totally replaced.

I have been meaning to ask for a long time- who the hell is this guy? He just appeared from Planet Krazy a few months back as some sort of pundit...I think I first saw him on the NBA draft telecast (or was it the NFL?). Is he a former player? What is his background? Why is he considered an expert? Why won't he cut his damned hair?

My head just exploded from you even suggesting that horror.

Steven A Smith, is he the talking head they get on occasionally to go up against an older white guy on sportscenter? If thats the one hes a print journalist outa Philly iirc. Media whor...I mean sports print journalists have found in recent years they can make a whole bunch load of money by whor..making appearances on TV to lend their 'expertise' on a particular subject. PTI (sometimes) and the sports reporters are actually fairly decent examples of this...anything with Max Horn is an example as to why they should be locked to their keyboards.

As far as I know he's a Philly sportswriter who got a job doing commentary nationally for ESPN. Other than that, he's not a player to my knowledge.

Sla-va Med-ve-den-ko

Do not be dissing Stuart Scott. That man makes Sportscenter fucking hilarious.

Nobody has yet, but just so you know. Stuart Scott is the man.

Michael Irvin, OTOH, needs to lay off the cocaine, because he can't speak right.

He does have quite the sense of style, though.

I think Michael Irvin bought his suit from these guys-

(http://www.comedycentral.com/images/tvshows/chappelle/211_haters_a1.jpg)

Don't forget Deion Sanders.  I would say he actually has MORE style than Irvin, but Irvin makes a better commentator.

Bruce

Yes if screaming incoherently is what your looking for in a commentator.

Anyone catch Shannow Sharpe on the CBS show? Howd he do? I seemed to find him pretty well spoken and at times kinda funny....was he any good?

Sharpe was part of the "pack of gibbering incoherent marsupials" on CBS's halftime show. I couldn't tell you how he did, because I couldn't understand a goddamn word any of them said. It was like that old Robin Williams joke about dolphins. All I heard was "BEEP" when the dolphin was saying "I'M NOT A TUNA!"

Ironically this week I got annoyed at CBS for not showing enough information. While watching the Pats game I kept watching their very small ticker in the top right corner for scores on other games , except all they kept showing was scores for only 4 AFC games over and over again...

I will give CBS some more credit. Their "StatTrax" despite it's ghey name, was quite useful. Every time something would happen, like a back gets a run, or a QB completes a pass, they would show that player's current stats. And it was readable. Fox's shitty interface seemed to take a step back.

I didn't watch nearly as much football, because I had Fable to play and my selection of games SUCKED ASS. Hmmm, Saints/49ers, Browns/Cowboys and Bengals/Dolphins. Suck. The only good game was the Indy/Tennessee game. Go Colts!

The Atlanta/St. Louis game was quite enjoyable. I'm officially on the Vick bandwagon until it loses a wheel.

Yes Im going to probably have to rescind my statement that Brady would be a better fantasy performer over the first half of the season that Vick.
Just goes to show that the NFL should be the NFI because no one has no f'ing idea whats going to happen.

That being said maybe we should start a pool on 'picking the craziest team you can think of to reach the superbowl this year'.

Im taking Detriot.

Dallas is my pick.  It's actually not that crazy, but nobody seems to even  expect them to reach the playoffs this year.

Bruce

Steven A Smith is a jackmonkey, especially compared to David Aldrige who provided some insightful commentary in a very non-jackmonkeyish fashion.  I also hate that Trev Alberts guy they have on College Gameday.  He is also a jackmonkey.

Further addendum to NFL coverage:

Fuck you, NFL. I remember the good old days, back when networks each had 2 games a day. Now, instead of seeing my beloved Packers in the early games, I got stuck watching only 1 game on Fox. And it was a SHITTY one, thank you very much. Instead of being able to see a game with two potential playoff teams, in the Falcons/Panthers game, I had to endure the suckfest that was New Orleans vs. Arizona. The fact that both teams spent most of the game trying to lose it didn't help matters. Yes, I know I live 2 1/2 hours drive from New Orleans; I still don't want to watch their shitty football team.

I'd also like to hand it to CBS's graphics team. While Fox's HUD seems content with being the most distracting, muddled piece of shit possible, CBS has not only made their display clearer, but more informative. Their StatTrax was in full effect, but in addition, the bottom of the screen had a wafer thin, yet READABLE, tracker of the games going on elsewhere. Each game had stats on important players, which helped me keep track of my fantasy team pretty well. And there was no flashing, blinking shit to take my eye off the action. It was just there.

Learn your lesson, Fox. Please.

P.S. Your halftime shows are still full of gibbering jackasses. Stop it.

Arizona.
Emmit Smith QB's for teh win!

Judging by the sheer weight of vitriol Hammy is deluging Fox with, I'm kinda glad it's the one station I don't get in HD. It's also a great advertisement for high definition broadcasts, the guys are already becoming elitist about that kinda stuff when they come over. From a nice detailed 16:9 720p image to a fuzzy 4:3 480i image, sells itself.

Fox in my area is broadcasting (over the air) a 480i signal and calling it 'better than DVD', and to paraphrase a local technician "better learn to like it, it's all you'll be getting." Way to embrace the future imo.

Throw some more picks, Drew.