Title: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on July 30, 2007, 01:07:23 PM New Devblog up: (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=489)
Quote revised nosferatu mechanics and khanid mk 2 on the test server reported by CCP Fendahl | 2007.07.30 14:07:57 | NEW | Comments For Revelations 2.2 we are planning to revise the effect for Nosferatus and implement Khanid mk 2. As you may know, both changes are now out on the test server so you can try them out if you're interested. Juicy details below. Nosferatu Changes In their current implementation Nosferatus not only neutralize cap of the targeted ship, but also leeches energy for your own ship. For instance a Heavy Nosferatu I gives you 8en/s and the peak recharge rate of a Megathron is about 20en/s with good skills, so a single Heavy Nosferatu I gives you about 40% increase in cap recharge rate. Even if the Nosferatu didn't leech energy it would still be a useful module since it can neutralize a capacitor at no (energy) cost to yourself. The problem, then, is that Nosferatus allows one to both leech energy off a target and at the same time neutralize its capacitor. This makes the Nosferatus too powerful since there is no compromise involved. To address this issue we have changed the effect on Nosferatus (but not on Energy Neutralizers) in order to make the Nosferatu less powerful as an Energy Neutralizer without affecting its ability to leech energy. Under the new system, the amount transferred by a Nosferatu is based on the relative capacitor charge levels (measured in percent). Energy is only transferred while the charge percentage of the targeted ship is higher than the charge percentage of the ship that activated the Nosferatu. This means that the target is no worse off (energy wise) than the attacking ship. For instance, if a battleship with 30% capacitor left activates a Nosferatu on a frigate, then the frigate is not drained below 30%. In other words, the Nosferatu would not drain the capacitor of the frigate completely, though an Energy Neutralizer would do the job nicely (but at an energy cost to the battleship). It is, however, still possible to use Nosferatus to drain a target if one is willing to sacrifice ones own energy to do so. Khanid mk 2 The Khanid ships currently suffer from a lack of direction. They have mixed laser and missile hardpoints and a bias towards shield tanking, but with armor bonuses. To rectify this, Khanid mk 2 (as originally suggested by Sarmaul -- much love for this awesome idea!) focuses on missile combat and armor tanking exclusively. This overlaps somewhat with Caldari missile ships, but the revised Khanid ships focus more on close range combat with bonuses to rockets/heavy assault missiles (and hopefully torpedos eventually). The Caldari ships remain superior at longer ranges due to missile velocity and flight time bonuses and their higher CPU output for Standard/Heavy Missile Launchers. Generally speaking, the new "Khanid bonuses" are: * 5% bonus to rocket/heavy assault missile damage per level, * 5% bonus to armor resistances per level and * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per level. Most Khanid ships do not favor any particular damage types, which increases flexibility with respect to damage types. Their damage output is higher than that of their Caldari counter parts when using non-kinetic rockets/heavy assault missiles, but lower with kinetic standard missiles/heavy missiles. The armor resistance and capacitor recharge bonuses enables the Khanid ships to field very tough tanks, which helps them to better survive at close range where they are most effective. Sensors have in general been adjusted for slightly shorter range. The mass and maximum speed on the Vengeance and Sacrilege have been improved so they can close in on their targets faster, though they remain slightly slower than their traditional Amarr equivalents. The Impel (deep space transport) and the Curse (combat recon) have not been changed as they are already in line with Khanid mk 2. The changes for the other Khanid ships are listed below. Malediction (Interceptor) * Hardpoints: 3 launchers (+1), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 135tf (+10tf), 35mw (no change) * Sensors: 925mm scan res (+25mm), 18,500m max targeting range (-4,000m) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per FF level * 5% bonus to armor resistances per FF level * 5% reduction of signature radius per Interceptor level (no change) * 5% bonus to missile EM damage per Interceptor level (no change) Lacks the range of the Crow, but has a bonus to armor resistances, a better capacitor and better speed. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. Vengeance (Assault Ship) * Hardpoints: 4 launchers (+2), 1 turret (-2) * Fitting: 160tf (+10tf), 43mw (-5mw) * Sensors: 655mm scan res (+55mm), 38,000m max targeting range (-7,000m) * Propulsion: 235m/s (+5m/s), 2,000,000kg (-75,000kg) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per Amarr FF level * 15%/10% bonus to shield/armor resistances per Amarr FF level (no change) * 5% bonus to armor resistances per AS level * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per AS level (no change) Lacks the range of the Hawk, but is faster and tanks better due to its slot layout and bonuses. CPU is tight when using standard missiles. Anathema (Covert Ops) * Hardpoints: 2 launchers (+1), 1 turret (-1) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per Amarr FF level * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per Amarr FF level * -98% to -100% reduced CPU need for cloaking device per Amarr FF level (no change) * 10% reduction of duration time of Astrometric modules per Amarr FF level (no change) Weapons are largely useless on Covert Ops frigates, but the Anathema has none the less been given a Khanid flavor for the sake of consistency. Heretic (Interdictor) * Hardpoints: 6 launchers (+1), 2 turrets (-2) * Fitting: 230tf (+19tf), 57mw (-9mw) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per DD level * 10% bonus to explosion velocity per DD level * 10% bonus to missile velocity per Interdictor level * 10% Interdiction Sphere Launcher ROF per Interdictor level (no change) The Heretic has similar bonuses to the Flycatcher, but the rockets only damage bonus and the low CPU makes rockets more suitable than standard missiles. The Explosion velocity bonus makes the Heretic better for taking down high speed targets vs. low speed, low signature radius targets for the Flycatcher. Sacrilege (Heavy Assault Ship) * Hardpoints: 5 launchers (+2), 0 turrets (-4) * Fitting: 400tf (+50tf), 1030mw (-70mw) * Sensors: 260mm scan res (+25mm), 50,000m max targeting range (-10,000m) * Propulsion: 205m/s (+30m/s), 12,000,000kg (-155,000kg) Bonuses * 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile damage per Amarr CC level * 5% bonus to armor resistances per Amarr CC level (no change) * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per HAS level * 5% reduction of missile launcher ROF per HAS level The improved speed and mass helps getting the ship in close, though it remains slightly worse than for the Zealot. The armor resistance and capacitor recharge bonuses allow the Sacrilege to field a very hard tank, which helps it to compete against blaster ships (with its relatively lower damage output). Damnation (Command Ship) * Hardpoints: 5 launchers (+1), 2 turrets (-2) * Fitting: 440tf (no change), 1300mw (-210mw) Bonuses * 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missiles per BC level * 5% bonus to armor resistances per BC level (no change) * 5% reduction of capacitor recharge time per CS level * 3% bonus to Armor Warfare Links per CS level (no change) Relatively low damage output compared to other fleet command ships, however the reduction of capacitor recharge time enables the Damnation to tank better than any other fleet command ship. As always, the above changes are not final and subject to change if they turn out to be overpowered or under-performing. Of course we would like to hear your feedback on the Nosferatu and Khanid changes (from Caldari pilots too). More balacing changes for Revelations 2.2 to follow. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Fordel on July 30, 2007, 01:34:08 PM So NOS goes from "I-Win" to near useless?
Though I'm sure some one will figure out a way to abuse cap regen rates by locking it down at the ideal regeneration point for high level missions or something similar. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on July 30, 2007, 01:49:44 PM So NOS goes from "I-Win" to near useless? That sounds a bit like an over-nerf, if you ask me. What is the base problem they're trying to fix? Though I'm sure some one will figure out a way to abuse cap regen rates by locking it down at the ideal regeneration point for high level missions or something similar. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Fordel on July 30, 2007, 01:54:54 PM Ships forgoing guns in favor of NOS then doing their killing with drones, I think that is the complaint/issue. The fact a single BattleShip sized NOS will decimate a frigate is also an issue. Every other type of weapon system has the size penalty, where NOS has none.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on July 30, 2007, 03:35:49 PM Ships forgoing guns in favor of NOS then doing their killing with drones, I think that is the complaint/issue. The fact a single BattleShip sized NOS will decimate a frigate is also an issue. Every other type of weapon system has the size penalty, where NOS has none. What's wrong with forgoing guns in favor of drones? It takes a lot of skills, and if they're that worried about it adjust the drone-bonuses on droneboats to make it harder.I mean, hell, can't you shoot the drones down? What's a droneboat going to do when he's out of drones? Nos you to death? As for sizes -- I wouldn't mind seeing a Nos scale to the ship it's hitting. Hit a frigate with a BS-sized Nos, you drain a fraction of what you would if you hit a BS with one. Problem solved. No funky-ass capacitor requirements needed. If you wanted something really fun, scale it with sig radius so that you COULD suck a frigate dry -- if you target painted it and played all the other games you'd need to hit it with BS guns in the first place. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Belce on July 30, 2007, 03:46:58 PM The epitimoy of the situation is the nosdomi. With the change, I understand that a nos will now reduce your opponnents cap to be no lower than your own and does so in terms of percentage. Neuts still work as before though, but they cost energy to run and it just goes away into space. As a previous poster indicated, there was not a to hit check, a reduction due to tracking or target speed/size that occurs with guns and missles. Turn nos on and it works and you get more cap to boot as well. As it was it worked differently than other weapon systems.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Viin on July 30, 2007, 03:54:34 PM What's wrong with forgoing guns in favor of drones? It takes a lot of skills, and if they're that worried about it adjust the drone-bonuses on droneboats to make it harder. I mean, hell, can't you shoot the drones down? What's a droneboat going to do when he's out of drones? Nos you to death? You can't shoot them if you don't have any cap. So if someone put two heavy nos' on you in a cruiser, you'd be OK for 2-3 seconds then you'd be out of cap. Then you just have to sit there while drones chew through your shield and armor. (Since you have no cap you can't warp, boost away, or really do anything). If you happened to have a recharger with cap recharge packs (whatever those are called, I forget now) you could use those but would probably be reduced to 0 cap before you could warp - but I haven't tried that. Edit: and you might not even be able to do that, I think it still takes energy (cap) to do the recharge packs, so if you are at 0 you wouldn't even be able to activate one of those. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Krakrok on July 30, 2007, 03:56:36 PM The nos changes are lame. The existing trade off is that you do no damage with nos. Morat's suggestion to fractionalize it based on sig radius is a better solution.
Everyone will just use neutralizers and cap boosters. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Belce on July 30, 2007, 05:02:04 PM A nos takes no energy to activate and transfers energy to you, it also recycles faster than a neut does as well, on the downside it does take more cpu than a neut does. A neut takes less cpu and requires an equal or close to activation cost to the energy neutralized at the target. It only makes sense to use a neut if your cap is better than your opponent or you think your recharge is much better or their activities are more cap intensive than yours. You can use a neut against a tackling frigate to break scramble, using the volume of cap that a large ship has as an advantage, the thing is now it is at a cost. Yes cap boosters are now more important for countering and continuing the use of a neut.
Regarding no damage done, the game's combat system is tied to cap, if you have it you can do things, if you don't you can't do things. To win a fight you need to do more damage then your opponent and reducing their cap to zero is a very effective way to do more damage than your opponent can do. Compared to nos, neuts at least place a cost to the user equal to or close to thier effect. Are nos still useful? Yes, if you are going to be doing something that is very cap intensive, mwd, warp scramble, fire weapons, then you could likely see yourself quickly having less cap than your oppenent. applying a nos to that target would transfer their riches to your poor cap. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Ratadm on July 30, 2007, 10:16:01 PM A nos change was needed. As it was nos were overpowered and nos/drone boats such as curse/domi/myrm even more so.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Megrim on July 30, 2007, 10:31:47 PM A nos change was needed. As it was nos were overpowered and nos/drone boats such as curse/domi/myrm even more so. But why not make them as all other weapons, scaling with radius/transversal? Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Fordel on July 30, 2007, 10:46:40 PM Because EVE needed more arbitrary illogical systems in place to add further depth to the combat system.
Did I do that correctly? Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Polysorbate80 on July 31, 2007, 08:08:35 AM A nos change was needed. As it was nos were overpowered and nos/drone boats such as curse/domi/myrm even more so. But why not make them as all other weapons, scaling with radius/transversal? Why not make them not exist? I have shields and armor that can stop the most powerful weapon systems in the known universe, but I can't lock my gas cap? Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Raging Turtle on July 31, 2007, 08:32:37 AM A counter-nos module besides cap boosters would have been nice.
Anyone else loving the new Khanid designs? Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on July 31, 2007, 10:44:38 AM A nos change was needed. As it was nos were overpowered and nos/drone boats such as curse/domi/myrm even more so. But why not make them as all other weapons, scaling with radius/transversal? So why didn't they do that? Admittedly, I only use my Nos to keep my tank going longer -- I'm not really out to drain an opponent, I just want the juice for my armor tank. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: ajax34i on July 31, 2007, 12:58:08 PM My wild guesstimate is that the most use for NOS'es was to stop smaller ships from tackling your big ship (anti-interceptor defense), and tracking penalties would have nerfed that use about as much as this does.
Although, the simplest explanation is probably that this was just easier to code. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on July 31, 2007, 01:04:52 PM My wild guesstimate is that the most use for NOS'es was to stop smaller ships from tackling your big ship (anti-interceptor defense), and tracking penalties would have nerfed that use about as much as this does. I can't imagine why -- I mean the tracking penalties already exist, they're just not used for Nos and probably should be. And neutralizers too, because if a BS-sized NOS can suck a frig dry, a BS-sized neutralizer can too, leaving the frig just as helpless. Although, the simplest explanation is probably that this was just easier to code. As it is -- I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do with the Domi setup I was looking at. I wanted Nos to keep my cap full while I tanked and my drones did all the work -- but if he's using guns AND tanking and I'm just tanking, my Nos is never going to suck power. I might as well ditch it and mount guns. Energy neutralizers would work, but I'd probably just use the cap they'd charge to fuck with him in other ways. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Raging Turtle on July 31, 2007, 02:44:39 PM I'm more than a little happy I never spent that 1-2 months training for the Curse and Pilgrim.
The nos change is going to change so much of close-range, medium-to-small fleet combat. It'll be interesting to see how everything shakes out a month or two after the patch hits. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on July 31, 2007, 02:52:44 PM I'm more than a little happy I never spent that 1-2 months training for the Curse and Pilgrim. That's kind of what I'm worried about -- I don't know if the Devs really have a good idea of how it's going to shake out, and it's a big change to be making on the "It'll all work out in the end" mindset.The nos change is going to change so much of close-range, medium-to-small fleet combat. It'll be interesting to see how everything shakes out a month or two after the patch hits. I guess it depends on what they think the problem is. If it's people fitting heavy Nos and rendering tacklers useless -- why nerf Nos and not Neuts? Why not use the same code used on heavy guns aiming at tiny ships to nerf Nos proportionatly. If it's people fighting with just Nos + Drones -- what's the problem there? Is that not a fighting style they want? Why not nerf Drone bonuses on Myrms, Domis, and whatever else uses them? Do they feel Nos + Drones is overpowered? I don't see how forcing droneboats to fit neutralizers instead is really going to alter the calculus here. At this point, with the changes they're talking about -- I'd use Nos in missioning to keep my tank up. PvP -- pointless. Fit guns or neutralizers, I guess. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: 5150 on August 01, 2007, 03:32:53 AM (Since you have no cap you can't warp) I'm almost certain you can warp away on zero cap (you just dont get very far) Thing is you are probably tackled anyway....... Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Yoru on August 01, 2007, 08:54:51 AM (Since you have no cap you can't warp) I'm almost certain you can warp away on zero cap (you just dont get very far) Thing is you are probably tackled anyway....... You can't on zero cap. It takes some cap just to initiate warp, but the amount is pretty small. If you've got a small amount, it can look like zero on your cap flower. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Furiously on August 01, 2007, 11:46:50 AM Maybe it's to make Titans useful as NOS drainers. :evil:
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: dwindlehop on August 01, 2007, 01:10:37 PM I think the point of the change is that you should be able to neut smaller ships to zero cap easily. Right now, nossing them is just as effective, plus nos helps your tank so it is pointless to fit a neut in most situations. With the change, you now have to choose between your anti-tackler slot and your tank boosting slot. This effect is the Right Thing.
The use of player skill and modules to nuke one's own cap (neuts, mwd, shield boost) in order to nos your opponent is kind of a meh for me. On the plus side, someone doing that has to have zero cap to nos you down. On the negative side, it is still possible. I would prefer to see that possibility eliminated. The point where I think they may have screwed up is the nos bonus in the situation where cap is not instanuked. That is, one bs versus another, or maybe a bc with nos vs. a bs. If I'm reading this properly, one nos on your attacker will even out with any number of nos on you in a 1v1 rather quickly, regardless of size. I think that's unfortunate and undesirable. My personal nos fix had one medium mounted on a cruiser countering one large on a bs, but one large on a bs sucked more than one small on a frig and two large always sucked more than one medium. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Krakrok on August 01, 2007, 02:19:05 PM I tried fitting my nosdomi setup yesterday using neutralizers instead. Heavy Neutralizers use 2500 grid which is 500 more than heavy nos but only 40 cpu which is 10 less than heavy nos. In addition to that the heavy neutralizers only fire every 24 seconds or so which is a LONG time (I think nos are 10 seconds). It seemed practically useless to fill up your ship with neutralizers. Better off to just take 1 for neutralizing frigs and do something else against BSs. The data from QuickFit could be old but it seemed to neutralize 500 enemy cap and 400 of my own cap. I was really only able to fit 3 heavy neutralizers because a heavy cap booster is also 2000 (or 2500 I forget) and same goes for the large armor repair. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: dwindlehop on August 02, 2007, 02:31:25 PM Yeah, neuts are balanced like that. Heavy nos is 12s. The Energy Emission Systems skill actually affects neuts, unlike nos. Best named/T2 is a lot better cap efficiency-wise.
Only reason for multiple neuts would be the cap alpha against a BS. If you want to mix nos+neuts post nerf, I think you might want to look into a cap battery. Then you could neut your own cap down to a low percentage, still have enough cap in your reserve to activate your reps, and nos to sustain the tank. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on August 11, 2007, 05:54:21 PM Whee, CCP want to kill 0.0! (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=492)
Quote Based on feedback and requests from resource hauling players, we introduced the Rorqual ORE capital ship in my previous blog. This ship's unique ore compression ability allows the movement of ores from fringe regions to empire space for refining, a feature requested since EVE's launch. The Rorqual's introduction grants us the ability to incorporate older ‘metafeatures’ into EVE in a balanced and officially supported manner. Currently, there are a number of items whose total volume of required ingredients are many times that of the resulting product. This leads to imbalanced compression rates as high as 430:1, such as the 1,000m3 Jump Portal Generator, a module requiring 430,000m3 of minerals to make. Upon completion, these modules would be transported to a new location and reprocessed with nearly zero waste, thus allowing the transport of a Freighter load of minerals with an Industrial. While this imbalance has been around for a long time, it wasn't until the introduction of high resource capital modules that we began to see its use increase. With the introduction of a ship designed to facilitate and empower ease of logistics in low sec, we can now release a tool to address deep space needs. There are approximately 170 items currently on Tranquility with compression ratios over 5:1. When Revelations 2.2 is deployed the manufacturing costs of these items will remain unchanged, however reprocessing the affected items will yield 80% of the materials required. Material transport will still be possible after Revelations 2.2, but it will no longer be profitable to do so. Expect all ship, module & ammo prices outside of empire to go up by at least[/i] 25%. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Trippy on August 11, 2007, 05:58:35 PM I need a translation again of the above.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Raging Turtle on August 11, 2007, 06:01:05 PM Explain a little more? I know I'm missing something, but I feel like easier-to-move-huge-amounts = lower-mineral-prices-galaxy-wide, as more people can move more minerals more easily. More.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on August 11, 2007, 06:14:22 PM OK, quick version:
Point one: Nobody in their right mind mines high-sec ore (veldspar, etc) in 0.0 - it's just pointless. Point two: Most 0.0 corps & alliances get most of their bulk minerals (trit, etc) by either buying them in empire and 'compressing' them for reprocessing in 0.0 (making modules like tractor beams, passive targetters, and so on which all take up much less space as a finished product than the raw materials would otherwise do)*, or just buying the modules in empire themselves. Point 3: The new mining capital ship, as a capital ship, cannot go into high-sec. If anyone wants to compress minerals with it, it'll be in low-sec/0.0 only...and as per point 1, that means compression of low-sec/0.0 ores. CCP nerfs mineral compression, and people will have to either eat the @20% refinery loss (putting prices up ~20% to compensate), use less efficient compression (meaning less minerals per trip, meaning higher overheads), or just stop production (leading to less competition, leading to higher prices). Trit prices are going to go through the roof in 0.0 *Example: Small Tractor Beam I Module volume * 10m3 Refines into: * 100,000 tritanium compression ratio: 100:1 * 25,000 pyerite compression ratio: 25:1 * 9,000 mexallon compression ratio: 9:1 * 2,500 isogen compression ratio: 2.5:1 * 350 nocxium * 20 zydrine * 40 megacyte Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Trippy on August 11, 2007, 07:04:31 PM Okay I understand the 20% "tax" thing on certain items but I don't understand this:
Quote Material transport will still be possible after Revelations 2.2, but it will no longer be profitable to do so. Were people only getting a 20% markup on the items (turned back into minerals) they were transporting from Empire to 0.0? Seems unlikely give the risk involved (or is there little to no risk?).Also why all the doom and gloom on the forums (beyond the typical MMO forum hysteria)? Is the economy in 0.0 so precarious that a 20% tax is going to plunge the economy into total chaos? Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Ratadm on August 11, 2007, 08:07:46 PM Nah it's just kind of a dick thing to do. Everything in low sec/0.0 is already expensive enough and doesn't really need nerfing which is what this will do.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Sparky on August 11, 2007, 10:14:06 PM Okay I understand the 20% "tax" thing on certain items but I don't understand this: Quote Material transport will still be possible after Revelations 2.2, but it will no longer be profitable to do so. Were people only getting a 20% markup on the items (turned back into minerals) they were transporting from Empire to 0.0? Seems unlikely give the risk involved (or is there little to no risk?).Also why all the doom and gloom on the forums (beyond the typical MMO forum hysteria)? Is the economy in 0.0 so precarious that a 20% tax is going to plunge the economy into total chaos? Hard to generalise but certainly when I was up in goonspace the margins on imported minerals were pretty thin. It's really not a great risk if you can package and carrier jump, just a pain. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: JoeTF on August 12, 2007, 02:51:07 PM 1) You can still load your minerals into freighter and move them the way they're meant to be moved.
2) Mineral->module compression was borderline exploit, it's finally getting plunged. 3) Stop whining. 4) It's just 20%, meaningless. 5) I always wondered - if the prices are going up by 20%, why is final consumer price going up by 25%? Need that 5% to compensate for ginormous amount of efford required to adjust your buyorders?:P 6) Stop whining. No, really. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Endie on August 13, 2007, 03:33:09 AM I agree with Joe again (hey, Joe, why no updates in the war thread?). It's a 20% efficiency hit, which means a 25% rise in the trit component price, there's a new capital ship which will compress lowsec-mined ore massively, and our logistics guys are awesome anyway. It's no biggie.
Of course, if the insurance price doesn't change (which it won't) then the 25% increase in trit price means a doubling of the cost of battleships after insurance, but fittings are the pricy thing, anyway. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on August 13, 2007, 03:37:50 AM Someone had a good idea on the Goonfleet forums - add a new ore in 0.0 which refines to a lot of trit/pye.
Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Morat20 on August 13, 2007, 03:54:17 AM Someone had a good idea on the Goonfleet forums - add a new ore in 0.0 which refines to a lot of trit/pye. That's only a good idea if you want to sever 0.0 from any dependency on Empire. If that's a CCP design goal, good idea -- if CCP wants that dependency (and it wouldn't surprise me -- think of the fun that requiring supply lines to empire causes), then no -- never happen. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on August 13, 2007, 11:23:03 AM http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=573770&page=10#279
Quote Important Update The item material reprocessing fix will be delayed until a future patch after kali 2.2. Many players have asked for more time to adapt to the changes and time to assess suitable alternatives being implemented as we talked about previously such as addressing the mining of veldspar in null sec for example with additional bonuses to the skiff and mackinaw amongst other suggestions made elsewhere in this thread by many players. A much better roadmap and sequence of changes is needed and preferable with time to implement and see how the Rorqual and other alternatives mature before we when fixing this take away something many have come to rely on. We realise many supercap industries have heavy reliance on this method to supply their minerals from the marketplace and that whilst the ability to move two freighters worth of minerals in a frigate is broke and something we want to fix, it can be done in a better way. In summary, nothing with these modules is happening till at least kali 3.0 now, where nearer the time we will address other mechanics such as low/null sec low-ore mining and others in parallel to provide good and better alternatives. Most importantly, thanks to those of you who provided good constructive feedback, it is always awesome that you care as much as we do about the game and help us find the right direction for it together. :woot: Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Raging Turtle on August 20, 2007, 12:56:09 PM Looks like there are a number of undocumented ship changes on the test server, including a number of T2 ship changes and BIG sig changes for cap ships (which does what to a cap ship besides increase locking time, exactly?). From a thread on scrapheap that I'm too lazy to link to:
Quote Ships: Hawk: 5%->7.5% shield boost bonus Flycatcher: +21 cpu, +2 grid Pilgrim: +100 grid Zealot: +90 grid, +5 cpu Deimos: +35 m/s, -1mil mass, +40 grid Muninn: +60 grid Geddon: +35 cpu Chimera: +50 cpu Phoenix: +50 cpu Wyvern: +100 cpu Rorqual (mining capital) Stats BPO SHINEY! PICTURES! more screenshot goodness And movies Khanid changes (Dev blog, it is listed pretty well there and I am too lazy to copy that ) Damnation revamp: 10% HM & HAM missile velocity instead 5% HAM damage 10% armor hitpoints instead 5% cap recharge 475 CPU 1590 grid (which is actually more than it has on TQ) Capital sig increase: Shamelessly copied from Hon Kovell: The sig radius has changed on caps. Carriers are a bit less than 3x as big and motherships/titans 10x. Name: Sisi (TQ) Phoenix: 1770m (1000m) Chimera: 3065m (1150m) Wyvern: 12km (1350m) Leviathan: 16km (1500m) Naglfar: 1635 (925m) Nidhoggur: 2865 (1075m) Hel: 11km (1260m) Ragnarok: 15km (1395m) Etc for the rest. Obviously a nanonaglfar nerf! Modules: Energy neutralisers: small: -1 grid medium: -25 grid large -500 grid Same reduction for t1 & t2. Essentially neuts use the same grid as nosses of the same tech and size. No other changes. Well, a small detail: neuts have a different graphics now. Looks like some a bit more concentrated "nos" effect fired at the target. Shorter animation than nos. HAM missiles flight time increase: t1: 3 sec -> 4 sec jav: 8 sec -> 10.5 sec (rather unnecessary; cerb has now 185k max range with a short range weapon ) rage: 4 sec -> 5 sec Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: Simond on August 24, 2007, 08:47:03 AM Rev 2.2 is due to go live next Tuesday (28th). Preliminary patch notes, ninja'd from EVE-O via SHC:
Quote Patch Notes Build 35183 to 36167 addresses Patch Notes for Revelations 2.2 Corporation Management * Corporation Transaction Log feature has been added. Ships & Modules * Khanid MK II changes as described in this Dev Blog. * Nosferatu changes as described in this Dev Blog. * ORE Capital Ship introduced as described in this Dev Blog. * The speed on the Deimos has been increased by 35m/s and the mass has been decreased by 1,000,000 kg for better speed. * The power output of the Deimos has been increased by 40 MW. * The power output of the Muninn has been increased by 60 MW. * The power output of the Flycatcher has been increased by 2 MW. * The CPU output of the Flycatcher has been increased by 21 TF * The CPU output of the Armageddon has been increased by 35 TF. * Decreased the capacitor recharge time on the Oneiros by 14% (306.9s) to put the effective recharge rate in line with the other Logistics Ships. * The description of the Drake has been clarified to show it does not get a bonus to light missiles. * The signature radius on all capital ships has been increased to make them easier to scan down than a battleship. * Increased the shield boost bonus on the Hawk to 7.5% per level to match the other ships with similar bonuses. * The agility on Blockade Runners has been decreased to 0.55 in order to make warp faster. * Increased the CPU output on most Caldari capital ships: o +50tf on the Phoenix and Chimera. o +100tf on the Wyvern. * The volume of the mining barges and exhumers has been reduced as follows: o Covetor and Hulk are now at 200,000 m3. o Retriever and Mackinaw are now at 150,000 m3. o Procurer and Skiff are now at 100,000 m3. * Added “Capital Navigation Window”, which can be assigned to a key combo using the shortcuts menu. * ECM burst, both normal and remote, no longer affects ships supposedly immune to Electronic Warfare. * The Mining Laser CPU Penalty on Mining Upgrades will be correctly calculated before the module is online, preventing the use of more CPU than a ship has. * Named variants of the Mining Upgrade will have their bonus applied correctly. * The Small Remote Hull Repair System I has had its volume changed from 50m3 to 5m3. * Republic Fleet Control System was incorrectly named. It has been renamed to Republic Fleet Ballistic Control System. * Faction and Officer 350mm Railguns have had their optimal range boosted to 43200 meters, in line with their Prototype and Tech II counterparts. * Republic fleet variations of some projectile ammo types were missing. These have been added. * The fitting calculation has been adjusted so that setups that require 100% of their CPU or Powergrid to fit will be able to fit the modules correctly. * Cargo Scanner II’s has been added to the market under Ship Equipment > Electronics and Sensor Upgrades > Scanners > Cargo Scanners. * Logging out in space with Power Grid Rigs fitted should no longer result in modules off lining. * The flight time on Assault Missiles has been increased. * Faction Heavy Assault Missile Launchers have been implemented. * The "Industrial Core I" deployment module for the ORE capital ship has been implemented. * The Mining Foreman - Ice Harvesting gang link has been changed to provide a bonus to gang members mining lasers, ice harvesters and gas cloud harvesters. * The Mining Foreman - Laser Optimization gang link now provides a duration bonus to gang members mining lasers, gas cloud harvesters and ice harvesters. * The Mining Foreman - Drone Coordination command module has been changed to give a range bonus to mining laser and ice harvesters. * Caldari Navy Cloaking Device now has the proper module requirement. * Amarr Navy Plating modules now have the correct tag requirements. * The optimal range on a number of faction and officer 350mm Railguns has been corrected. * The CPU penalty on mining laser upgrades has been changed from online to passive. * Meta Mining Upgrades now work as intended and have had their bonus and CPU costs corrected. Meta Ice Harvesting Upgrades have also had their bonuses corrected. Combat * Dreadnoughts trying to enter siege mode without the required fuel will no longer lose all target locks. * Corpses, Wrecks and cans have had their properties adjusted so that ships will pass straight through them. * Interdictor warp disrupt probes will now prevent warp, even if the warp is already initiated. * The Tactical Shield Manipulation skill now correctly prevents bleed through according to its description. Drones & Fighters * When a ship with deployed drones/fighters enters a Starbase force field, the drones/fighters automatically return to the ship. Boosted the Curator sentry drone, max Range, falloff and tracking improved. * Added 20% tracking to Tech II sentry drones. Overview * You can now warp to gang members who are over 150 km away by clicking them in space, or on the overview. * The display of “<” and “>” in tooltips has been fixed. * When cancelling warp, the overview options on a selected item should automatically update, allowing you to warp to that item. Contracts & Market * The “Show Info” page of a character now contains a link to their contract history. * Various 'Livestock' items are now searchable in contracts. * The Materials & Research market group has been reorganized to better reflect item associations. * The Mining Lasers group has been reorganized into separate sub groups for the different types of mining lasers. * Data interface blueprints are now visible and searchable on contracts. Starbases * You can no longer generate a cyno field within a Starbase force field. * Starbase guns should no longer shoot at ships not occupied by a pilot. * Structures outside Starbase shields in systems with Sovereignty level 4 can now be targeted and fired upon. * Ships inside a Starbase force field will be immediately ejected if the force field settings are changed so that they are no longer allowed to be there. * Cynosural Generators and Cynosural Jammers have been added to the ship scanner, so they can be scanned remotely without having to warp to the Starbase. * Maximum Anchoring distance has been adjusted for Medium and Small control towers, to allow the anchoring of modules such as the Cynosural System Jammer: o Medium – 41 km. o Small – 35 km. * The scan resolution on Starbase batteries have been increased. * Starbases now have separate fuel bays and strontium bays. * A New Advanced Mobile Laboratory is now available on the market which offers 3/2/2 Copy/ME/Invention slots but takes more CPU/power to use. EVE Voice * You can now join audio on up to three channels. * There is a new Voice Widget that you can open with [left alt + v]. Through the widget you can: o Join and leave audio channels. o See who is speaking. o Switch between which channel is your speaking channel by just switching between the tabs on the widget. * Improved visualization for channels you have joined audio on and which one is your speaking channel have been added. * The sound quality is vastly improved. * Channel joining is now near-instant instead of the several seconds it used to take. * Push to talk buttons are now selectable from a drop down menu. LP Store * Commas (,) and Periods (.), depending on regional settings, have been added to figures in the LP Store, to make LP and ISK figures easier to read. * Adjustments to the price / items / LP required for some items, to bring them in line with market value. * LP Offers will not show as available if the prerequisite ship is in your hangar, but assembled. * Caldari Navy BPC offers from the Court Chamberlain corporation store have been removed. * Zainou 'Shapshot' ZMR2000 implant has been added to the Republic Fleet and Caldari Navy LP stores. Missions & Exploration * It was possible in some exploration sites to destroy the item causing the NPC Spawns. This resulted in being unable to complete the site and has been fixed. * The distances between gates in some deadspace areas were too far from each other, this has been fixed. * Dungeons should now expire properly and disappear from space. * Several missions have been adjusted to reduce load and client lag. * Exploration sites of the encounter type have had their scan category, or signature type, changed to Cosmic Anomaly, to help differentiate them from other types of exploration sites. The on-board scanner has been adjusted accordingly and now can now only scan for Cosmic Anomalies. * Fixed spelling error in mission Worlds Collide (all versions). * Changed the "Booster" missions in 0.0 COSMOS to dish out blueprints rather than actual boosters. * In the mission Recon (3 of 3) some time has been added between the message informing the player of a big wave and the big wave itself. This does not guarantee that the player has enough time however since this depends on the players skills and ship type. * Removed the key requirements of old static complexes that were put into exploration, to prevent the scenario where the key has been used but the dungeon hasn't been completed, leaving the dungeon stuck as no one else had access to the key. * The number of NPCs in the Damsel in Distress level 4 mission has been reduced to reduce lag. * The triggers in the Guristas Extravaganza mission has been modified to reduce the chance of the player being flooded with NPCs, this was done mainly to reduce lag. * An issue that sometimes arose in the COSMOS mission Denial (1 of 2) has been fixed. This issue could prevent the mission from being completed, this should no longer be the case. * The Contested Minmatar Army Complex has been changed to allow Battlecruisers and Elite Cruisers. * Increased the quantity of gas found in the gas cloud sites in Exploration. * The NPC count in the first room of the mission Recon (1 of 3) has been vastly reduced to reduce serious lag issues that some players were experiencing in the mission. The NPCs that remain have been beefed up somewhat. * Text edit in mission "Criminal Minds - Looking Out for Number One (1/4)". * Fixed mission objective statement in "Dars Amene - Denial (1 of 2)". * Fixed mission objective statement in "Dars Amene - Denial (2 of 2)". Science & Industry * Station refinery quote was locked at 5% in some cases, regardless of skills or standings, this has been fixed. * Stacks of items larger than 100 million will now have their quantity correctly displayed when rounded into billions. * Battleship blueprints no longer have an invention tab. * Invention of some Tech 2 ammunition types has been corrected, as they were variants of the wrong type of Tech 1 ammunition. o Spike is now a Plutonium variant. o Void is based on Antimatter. o Gleam is based on Multifrequency. * The Shadow Sensor Dampening Battery BPC has had its name corrected. * It is now possible to Invent from the Auto Targeting System I Blueprint. * It is now possible to invent Tech II Mining Crystals from the T1 versions. * Data Interface blueprints are now searchable in the contracts interface. * Blueprints for Tracking Enhancer I, Gyrostabilizer II, Ballistic Control System II and Tracking Enhancer II have been moved to the correct group in the market browser: Blueprints -> Ship Equipment -> Turrets & Bays -> Weapon Upgrades. * Guardian Vexor blueprint has been removed from the market search. * ME Level now affects the mineral requirements for Bomb blueprints. * Damage Control II did not require any Tech II components to build. They will now require Tech II components like all other Tech II modules. * Many Tech II ammunition types had the incorrect data core requirement for Tech II invention. This has been corrected to match the skills required for manufacture of the Tech II item. * The Tech II components required to build the Expanded Cargohold II has been adjusted. * Invention on all missiles now requires the Caldari Encryption skill and associated data interfaces. * The Expanded Cargohold II now requires construction components to build in line with normal Tech II production. * Invention of Tech 2 Mining Laser Upgrade and Ice Harvester Upgrades is now possible. * Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Blueprint is now assigned to the correct corporations. * Caldari Navy Cloaking Device now has the proper module requirement. * Tech 2 Missile Invention now requires Caldari esoteric data interface and skill for all types of missiles. * Waste is now correctly applied to bomb blueprints so ME research now affects waste properly. * The following blueprints have been moved or added to Blueprint -> ship equipment -> turrets & bays -> weapon upgrades market group: o Tracking Enhancer I Blueprint. o Tracking Enhancer II Blueprint. o Ballistic Control Unit II Blueprint. o Gyrostabilizer II Blueprint. * The number of each type of data core for invention of Tech II sentry drones has been increased to three. * Mining crystals are now inventible and the Tech II symbol is now displaying correctly on the Tech II variant icons. * Miner II - the Tech II symbol has been fixed on the icon. Skills & Implants * The description of Advanced Drone Interfacing has been clarified. * In the Skill requirements for modules: “trained but not required level” has been re-worded to “required but not trained to the proper level”. * For Armored Warfare, Skirmish Warfare, Mining Foreman, Siege Warfare and Skirmish Warfare the description has been changed in line with the current gang system mechanics: "The Gang bonus only works if you are the assigned gang booster and the gang is in fleet mode." * Hardwiring - Inherent Implants 'Yeti' BX-2 now requires Cybernetics level 5, in line with the other tier 2 “Slot 10” implants. * Changed the bonus of the “Hardwiring – Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ EP1/2/3” to be a percentage bonus rather than seconds. * Changed the bonus on the Hardwiring - Zainou 'snapshot' ZMF implants from a damage bonus to a reduction in explosion radius for FoF missiles. * Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY implants now correctly give their warp speed bonus. * Removed “Fit to active ship” from the context menu of implants. * The research and invention science skills, except encryption methods, have been seeded on the market at a base price of 10 million ISK each. * HY- series implants (warp speed boost) now function as intended. * The bonus on "Hardwiring - Zainou 'snapshot' ZMF500/1000/2000" implants has been changed from a damage bonus for FoF missiles to a reduction in explosion radius for FoF missiles. New Player Experience * Veldspar asteroid will appear on the overview by default, so that it is easier to target. * New Pilots will no longer start in a Pod. NPC’s * Extended the Nosferatu transfer amount bonus on the Bloodraider ships to also include Energy Neutralizers. * Rogue Drone Commander NPCs now have a chance of being found in asteroid belts & ice fields in Rogue drone regions. * Khanid corps now has a good selection of modules, focusing around short-ranged missile systems and armor tanks. They also have access to Caldari Navy short-range missiles. * Ammatar corporations now have access to Amarr Navy laser crystals. * Caldari and Minmatar corps now has access to their own Heavy Assault Missile Launchers * Minmatar corporations now have access to missing factional Carbonized Lead and Depleted Uranium ammunition. * Fixed a Blood Raider encounter in 0.8 systems which was using an obsolete version. * Non-drone regions now contain 40% more pirate Encounters and 40% less drones. * Low security space and 0.0 areas now have 50% more Encounters per system. * Low sec Encounter sites are now generally more difficult, and have better rewards as a result. Exploit Fixes * You didn’t think we’d announce these before the patch has been deployed, did you? General Fixes * The Transactions and Journal tabs in the wallet have been standardized to behave correctly. * Fixed an exception when docking with the scanner open. * Fixed an exception when switching ships with the Insurance window open. * Fixed an exception when merging chat channels. * Opening the map while warping from the sun no longer turns your ship into the sun. * Fixed zooming in on items in space such as Drones. * Auto Target back was behaving incorrectly. This will now target back only the number of targets specified in the preferences page. * Horizontal and vertical lines from a target now extend the full width of the screen in 1900x1200 resolution. * It was possible to get the “target locking” and various other sound effects to loop. (Yes! EVE has sound!) This has been fixed. * Saving bookmarks in the In Game Browser now works without having to put http:// in front of them. * Added drag & drop for location names in neocom: current location and f11 (map browser): region, constellation and solar system. * Asteroids are now easier to target. You can now click anywhere on the asteroid to select it instead of needing to click its center. * The volume of the warp sound has been lowered! * Various in-game values now display properly with the correct units attached. * Tech II Mining Crystals now have the orange Tech II symbol in the top left corner of the icon. * Badger is now listed under “variations” in the Badger Mark II’s info. Miscellaneous * Bronze, silver and gold medals as well as a cup for the Alliance Tournament has been created. These are simple items (commodities). There's some big changes in there, including that supercaps just got nerfed a little more. Title: Re: Rev2.2 changes: Khanid MkII + Nos nerf Post by: dwindlehop on August 24, 2007, 11:40:55 AM Quote Interdictor warp disrupt probes will now prevent warp, even if the warp is already initiated. Oh pure win, why do you taunt me with your several days away timing? :inluv:I need to go redo my Sabre fitting with the point gone. |