f13.net

So.. network sportscasts are really dead, aren't they?

P-r-e-c-e-d-e-n-t


I win.


Not to derail your post, I think playing video games competitively is fun. I'm quite sure I'm in the minority here, but my local LAN center used to run a gaming Triathlon where you played three different games for prizes. It was a hell of a lot of fun.

If it doesn't get you laid, it's not a sport.

I'm pretty sure online games have gotten some people laid :|  Also I think you underestimate just how sad some people can be.

How quickly we forget (http://content.ytmnd.com/content/b/9/e/b9e7fe1cc6b1549fbf1a5f88053b6a65.png)

Playing? Sure.  Watching?  Does not compute.

There's a difference between playing games competitively and playing them professionally.  I'm playing competitively every time I log in to Tribes or Savage; it's not like I'm going to try to sit down with representatives from the other team and table a motion that will allow both parties to meet in the middle.  Playing professionally, though, I disagree with on principle, because you often have to sacrifice the fun to win.  Camping in a remote corner for the entire half hour match may be boring as hell, but if that's what it takes to win the gold, then people are going to do it, and therefore you're going to have to do it if you want to stay competitive with them.

I also have to agree with Merusk; this does not sound like riveting stuff to watch.  I mean, televised Warcraft matches?  Unless I'm missing something, you're basically watching a bunch of guys milling around as a computer rolls dice for them.  I don't care how much thought and expertise these guys bring to the game, unless the combat log is there on screen (THRILL to the wall of miniscule text that explains what that warrior just did and why the rogue is moving slower!), it's still going to look like two guys throwing fireballs at each other until one of them falls over.  How the hell do you make a 3% spell crit bonus look exciting?  How do you make a rogue with more +agility items look like he's using more "skill and strategy" than the rogue with less?

Not much going on in sports right now.  Baseball?  A snoozefest unless you're at the park with a huge ass beer and hotdog and/or playoffs.  Tour de France?  Snoozefest.  Futbol?  Dunno, don't watch it because it puts me to sleep.  No NBA, no NFL, no NCAA, no NHL. 

While I agree that this is another low point in "sports tv", we do have texas hold'em poker on at least one sports network every hour of the day between 10pm and 6am.

Not much difference there.

Haven't you Europeans been watching RTS competitions as sports already?

Also, imagine any sport played on TV these days. Strip out the commercials, the eye candy, the voice overs, the music and the CGI, leaving just the course/field/whatever, players and refs. Just how interesting would that be to watch on TV?

It would suck. Because it's not just about the sport. It's about how it's packaged. This could be XFL or this could take off. But it'll depend entirely on the announcers, the accoutrement's and how they doll up the "players".

And I don't give a shit if people classify it as a "sport" or not. Every sport had to get invented at some point.

RTS competitions I can envision myself watching.  That's sort of up there with watching replays of good chess matches.

Guitar Hero, though?  Youtube is already full of videos of people scoring 100% on Expert for any given song.  100% is as good as you can possibly get, and there are apparently lots of people who can do it without too much trouble.  So we get to watch two Guitar Hero experts tie each other over and over again?  What's next, the Tic-Tac-Toe World Series?

And WoW?  What the hell?

I'd start watching football regularly again were that to happen.  Hell, I liked watching soccer matches w/ my H.S. girlfriend's dad because they had satellite and that's what he'd tune in, just the feed.  Fuck, I watch swimming because it doesn't get the shit treatment because 'it doesn't matter.'

For some of us it IS about the sport.  Sometimes I think you're a little too in love with virtuality to step back and realize that just because you want to support the IDEA of a prof. computer game, doesn't mean the games being offered are good ideas.  If something were developed with the idea of being a professional sport, perhaps I'd glom on to the notion.  It hasn't happened yet.

Go into a Korean nightclub and tell the girlies you have 400 apm and prac. Terran with Boxer.

Sure, there are some songs that are easy to get 100% on, even on expert, but I think there are enough that nobody can get 100% on a stage in front of a crowd of people, on a regular basis.  Songs like Jordan will be a challenge forever, and while it sounds like one or two people might, might get a perfect run some day soon, that's just one perfect run after thousands and thousands of attempts.  I'd like to see that, actually. :)

I'm mixed on the whole "performance and showmanship" aspect though.  I just don't like the idea that one player could play a very technically demanding song perfectly, and still lose out to someone who only plays fairly well, but looks and acts like a rock star.  Still, I guess it does make it more interesting to watch.

Air guitar is NOT a spectator sport.  You will not convince me otherwise.

Also, get off my lawn.   :angryfist:

Sports without the broadcasters? If you are talking American sports, I'd be all over that. Frankly, there are about 2 American sportcasters that I don't want to stab in the throat, and they broadcast for the Cubs. Most of the time, I just want them to tell me what happened with penalties, injuries or yardage and shut the fuck up. Their banter is banal and they often miss the fucking game stroking each other's happy spots. And then there's Kornhole on ESPN's Monday Night Football. He is a man I'd love to see strangle on his own ballsack.

As for futbol, I can watch it with or without commentary, but I do like the English commentators like Ray Hudson (GolTV) who is so excited about futbol I'm amazed he doesn't have 20 strokes a game. Those guys actually talk about the game, and rarely worry about shit else, they actually make the broadcasts more entertaining.

Watching computer geeks play video games professionally? Watching them play WORLD OF WARCRAFT? Are you fucking kidding me? That's not an interesting watch, because video games are interactive by nature. The fun isn't in spectacting, it's in playing.

Some games are more fun to watch than others.  Much like live sports, it helps a lot if you know the game.  I expect watching versus-fighter tournaments would be boring for people that have never played a versus-fighter, but that can be some exciting shit in the finals.  On the other hand, I watched a televised Halo 2 match and my eyelids slammed shut as if Franz Mesmer had put me under.

Put me in the "commentators can shut the fuck up" box.

Elite Beat Agents is fun to watch!  Okami, too.  They're about it.

I always thought the PBA and NASCAR were video games.  Ok... close enough.

Personally, I'd love it. 

Not only love it, but adore it, kiss it, hug it, and leghump it if I could.  Sports have turned from competition to entertainment.

Professional sports died the first time a game was interupted by a commercial timeout.

People are still playing Savage ? Wasn't that this weird RTS/RPG hybrid ? I thought it never took off.

Genuine interest here.

I watch many sports with the sound off.  I'm guessing that comes from having played football on tv for a few years and having armchair announcers criticise my play.

I'm sure that's the same case for everyone.    :-D

This will fail.  Watching other's game on TV is boring. Being in the same room while other's game: slightly less boring. 

What's next, reality TV shows about WoW uber guilds?

Derail:  Honestly, I'm not sure if it's still very active... I haven't logged in in about a year or so.  It was pretty fun when I played it, a number of well populated servers as I recall, but yeah, it wasn't exactly setting sales records.  They did finally release their big übermod (the SFE, which vowed to right all wrongs and all that) this January, so I imagine it's not completely dead.  Game's available for free download (http://www.s2games.com/savage/downloads.php), if you want to have a look.

I'm basically not into sports at all, so I'm probably wrong about them sucking without all the packaging if you guys are any indication :) But then, why is all that extra crap in there? Besides the intermittent commercials, which make sense, why do we need announcers and graphics and anything beyond a few people doing camera work? Legacy of the radio days of announcers? Something to give the casually-interested something to watch?

Both.  Plus trying to expand the market and get even more people to watch by getting the "if I understood what was going on, I'd watch" crowd.   Some of the innovations I DO like.  The clock in the corner all the time (when it's small)  the down and line of scrimmage lines.  The announcers, constant "flash over to the stats" and all the other assorted crap is just a distraction, and more often than not a case of "because we can" than "because we should."

I can't remember the network, but it was one of the first ones to minimize the screenspace for the fulltime display of the team scores and clocks. I remember seeing that in a bar once and thinking it was good. Much easier nowadays with HD I imagine.

No way these tournaments are going to get ratings relying on people who want to watch the games.  But, if the prizes get big enough, I think people would watch just because of the Quiz Show rule -- people don't tune in to watch some amazing display of intellectual ability, they tune in to watch the money.  Something like video games, which everyone thinks they can play, is better than something authentically hard, because it's important that the audience be able to plausibly fantasize that they could be getting that money.  It's why I assume they fill up Jeopardy with lots of easy questions rather than just using the more difficult ones.

That, I think, sums up 99% of the TV success of poker tourneys.  There's lots of money to watch and it's very easy for Joe Sixpack to think that could be him getting that money; from the network's perspective it's a high-prize gameshow where the contestants pay for the prizes instead of the network.  The other 1% is split between Norman Chad* and Jennifer Tilly's boobs.


*What can I say, Norman Chad cracks me up.  His column has always been 20x better than Kornheiser's, yet I have to hear Kornheiser's shtick 26 hours a day on ESPN and on Monday Night Football?  There is no God. 

People still watch other people play competitive hangman on TV, so eventually the Geritol Gang will be watching replays of the Horde taking Alterac Valley on ESPN Classic 5.

I wish you'd told me that earlier. I've been wanting to try this game since before it's release, but just never happened to buy it.

Hell, I caught competitive Rock/ Paper/ Scissors on one of the ESPNs a couple weeks ago, and the guy won around 50K.  How is competitive gaming any different, or less compelling?

I don't see much of a difference really, chasing an inflated bladder around a field doesn't inherently sound more exciting than watching a frenzied deathmatch. I've watched some counterstrike tourney's and they worked fairly well, and I have no problem imagining some of the better WoW raids working. Heck, CS already has "spectator" mode build in. And I expect the idea to become more valid as games start to look more impressive, get more detailed and gaming becomes more mainstream.

Needless to say you won't be watching the actual players or playing. High res in-game footage, with maybe a small face-shot of the players. Then the rest of the chatter about teams, players and statistics around it.

I saw a WoW raid on G4 once.  It looked fucking stupid.  Here's a big cool looking dragon, and here's a bunch of guys standing stationary while it breathes fire on them, shooting back at it with sporadic hadokens and random particle effects.  Pong would be more fun to watch.

For WoW the WSVG has it as 3 on 3 PvP which was okay. CBS also showed GH 2 which was pretty good and Fight Night which was deathly dull -- they should've showed Quake 4 or even CS instead.

Well, that's because Pong is PvP+. Of course it's more fun to watch.

I'd say that watching geeks play a WoW raid is just about as compelling as watching some jackass play Rock Paper Scissors.

Yea? Well, there are people nutjobs that watch that too (http://www.worldrps.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=1&Itemid=62)

Seriously though, I understand why this analogy comes up so often. But there hasn't yet been a game that felt like rock paper scissors outside of spreadsheets.

You really, REALLY, need to go to an hot international (like a USA V Mexico) or good league Soccer (Houston versus  Dallas for extra spice and hatred) match in person.  Just once, with an open mind, and I'd bet you'd change your perspective on futbol. I'm not saying you'd become as crazy as I am, but I'd bet there'd be change.


It's hard to watch sports with commercials now. I tivo everything and speed through it now.

The problem most Americans have with futbol is this...  the shear number of games that end with no one having scored, or with the only scoring coming from penalty kicks.

Watching people run back and forth in mid-field is not captivating.  Attempts at the goal are, and successful attempts moreso.  It's like CoH in the mid 40's... go to enough games, and you'll eventually see someone score.

--
Alkiera

I think that it's a difference in mentality. You (dirty maericans) are too engrossed with the idea that "someone has to win", and i think, miss the beauty of the struggle. The fun lies not only in putting the ball into the net, but in the contest and interplay between the players.

???

Winning is the point of the game.

The only winning move is not to play.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?_

I really like hockey. Can I derail to a hockey discussion now?

Exactly! You will never see Solitaire tournaments but Poker is on TV very frequently. If you remove personal participation from PvE there isn't much left.

Hockey...... :vv:

We have a soccer team!?

(I kid.  I try to leave work before the fans arrive and make my going home a pain.)