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Title: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Gutboy Barrelhouse on July 02, 2007, 03:21:45 PM NOTICE: Today NCsoft is announcing that it will be closing down service for Auto Assault at the end of the summer. The service will close at midnight on August 31, 2007. As of today, any player currently in the service with an active billed account will not be billed again. If players have previously purchased time via multi-month billing or time cards that extends their service past the July 31 date, NCsoft will reconcile these accounts appropriately. There will be more announcements coming soon regarding the shut down of Auto Assault and its impact on current accounts. Please check back at www.autoassault.com for more information.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: schild on July 02, 2007, 03:24:02 PM open source downloadable servers yesterday plz
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Xerapis on July 02, 2007, 03:26:02 PM It's Dead, Jim. 8-)
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Furiously on July 02, 2007, 03:27:28 PM Well, that is nice they are giving a free month to the 12 active players.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: LK on July 02, 2007, 03:33:57 PM So that's two vehicular-based MMOGs that have shut down while every other kind remains active?
Earth and Beyond Auto Assault Next? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Furiously on July 02, 2007, 03:38:45 PM I think it's three - you left off Motor City Online.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Krakrok on July 02, 2007, 03:43:23 PM Fuck. What a bunch of wasted effort.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: WayAbvPar on July 02, 2007, 04:15:16 PM Now someone competent can come in and make a decent car combat game.
Hint- (http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/carw01.jpg) Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Nonentity on July 02, 2007, 04:24:58 PM So, there are a very limited amount of MMOs that were actually completely shut down - IE Asheron's Call 2, Motor City Online, etc.
Does this one win for shortest time between Retail and turning the lights off? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Rasix on July 02, 2007, 04:27:13 PM Quote I don't predict a rosy future for this title. The servers (all four of them) were either at very low or low population. The most cars I ran across at the same time playing was three in one area and at most you'll see five or ten people in town. The game does feature instancing technology similar to City of Heroes so perhaps this is intentional, but in this situation I think it's just an effect of the game garnering very few subscriptions. If this game wasn't made on the cheap and can't subsist on extreme niche level subscription revenue, expect it to fold within a year. Well, I was close. Of course, that wasn't exactly a bold prediction. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Secundo on July 02, 2007, 04:54:52 PM Well these days, even the Somalians know that putting a gun on a car is crappy idea. The only place it almost worked was in Hollywood.
To be honest though, I actually thought there would be enough American car/gun fetischists to make it work as a niche product but no.. . Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Murgos on July 02, 2007, 07:22:14 PM Well these days, even the Somalians know that putting a gun on a car is crappy idea. The only place it almost worked was in Hollywood. To be honest though, I actually thought there would be enough American car/gun fetischists to make it work as a niche product but no.. . Guns on cars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_car) actually work fairly well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humvee) in real life... (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Hmmwv-036.jpg) Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: sam, an eggplant on July 02, 2007, 07:41:30 PM This is absolutely unprecedented. Auto assault must have done worse than anyone imagined for it to be shutdown cold like this.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Strazos on July 02, 2007, 08:09:09 PM Isn't the same dev team working on another project currently?
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: UnSub on July 02, 2007, 08:52:20 PM Netdevil (http://www.netdevil.com/) is doing the Lego MMO as well as Warmonger (an original IP) and rehashing Jumpgate (which already nearly died once, I believe).
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Signe on July 02, 2007, 08:53:24 PM I hope they do better than AA this time! (http://www.dark-smilies.de/pics/gruft/gruft018.gif)
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Margalis on July 02, 2007, 09:04:00 PM I wouldn't read too much into the "vehicle MMOs being shut down" thing - those MMOs all sucked ass.
However I do think there is one takeaway - people who play vehicle games have certain expectations. People who play RPGs are used to die-roll mechanics; people who play driving games are not. I could not get into E&B for that reason - all the space games I've played have been dogfight style, not die-roll. AA looks a lot like a Twisted Metal style game. So make it play like one. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: UnSub on July 02, 2007, 09:16:48 PM My local EB has a Collector's Edition of AA on the shelf... as well as a boxed copy of Earth and Beyond.
No point to this post other than wondering where the boxes of dead MMOs end up. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 03, 2007, 04:40:37 AM They usually end up under the counter. I've had to be the one to tell the clerk to take a few off the shelves. They've tried to argue too: "dude, we got no notice from the publisher". Nice thing about websites...
Anyway, in this post-UO world, I think the following are the only titles that actually launched, collected subscriptions and shut down (we don't need to include those that died in testing): E&B MCO AC2 AA There's not enough here to trend. In an age when DnL and Planetside are still active (and we can guess why on the latter), all bets are off. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Tannhauser on July 03, 2007, 05:37:00 AM Now someone competent can come in and make a decent car combat game. Hint- (http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/carw01.jpg) I like where your heads at! Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: WindupAtheist on July 03, 2007, 05:42:40 AM What was funny was the thread on the AA forums where some guy was forlornly hoping SOE would come along and adopt it ala Matrix or Vanguard.
SOE, the halfway house for wayward MMOs. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Sky on July 03, 2007, 07:15:11 AM Well these days, even the Somalians know that putting a gun on a car is crappy idea. The only place it almost worked was in Hollywood. You need a time-out for stupid talk.To be honest though, I actually thought there would be enough American car/gun fetischists to make it work as a niche product but no.. (http://www.lovefilm.com/lovefilm/images/products/screenshots/5/64665-2-large.jpg) (http://www.pgnx.net/media/soe_planetside3.jpg) (http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2006/320/reviews/926632_20061117_embed005.jpg) Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Nonentity on July 03, 2007, 08:39:44 AM What was funny was the thread on the AA forums where some guy was forlornly hoping SOE would come along and adopt it ala Matrix or Vanguard. SOE, the halfway house for wayward MMOs. A 'Station Vagrant Pass' would be awesome. Earth and Beyond, Asheron's Call 2, Motor City Online, and Auto Assault. And Matrix Online, because it SHOULD be on there. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Jamiko on July 03, 2007, 08:43:28 AM My local EB has a Collector's Edition of AA on the shelf... as well as a boxed copy of Earth and Beyond. No point to this post other than wondering where the boxes of dead MMOs end up. The local used game stores are always filled with games like Asheron's Call 2, the AC2 expansion, Earth & Beyond, and Motor City Online. Not to mention the fact that most any MMO in a used video game bin is not worth much as far as the subscription key goes. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Stormwaltz on July 03, 2007, 09:33:10 AM Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: schild on July 03, 2007, 10:02:05 AM Majestic was one goddamn ring to rule them all. I was fanboi++ for the life-invasive concepts of that game. Knowing full well it would never work out, so no, it doesn't count. None of the above games sounded fun - ever.
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2001/pc/adv/majestic/majestic_boxshot.jpg) :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :cry: Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Nonentity on July 03, 2007, 10:09:21 AM Majestic was one goddamn ring to rule them all. I was fanboi++ for the life-invasive concepts of that game. Knowing full well it would never work out, so no, it doesn't count. None of the above games sounded fun - ever. (http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2001/pc/adv/majestic/majestic_boxshot.jpg) :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :cry: I can pay a guy to sit outside your house with binoculars - you down? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: d4rkj3di on July 03, 2007, 10:17:40 AM I'm sure glad I don't have a clue where AA is at right now financially. Look for Netdevil to continue running it after NCsoft reverts publishing rights.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Furiously on July 03, 2007, 11:06:28 AM Majestic was one goddamn ring to rule them all. I was fanboi++ for the life-invasive concepts of that game. Knowing full well it would never work out, so no, it doesn't count. None of the above games sounded fun - ever. I think majestic could work now days with a different pay scheme. Maybe something like text "66453" to XXX-XXX-XXXX... Hell I'd pay something to have Samuel Jackson tell me to watch snakes on the plane every week. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Yegolev on July 03, 2007, 12:25:13 PM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed.
What, you don't remember Seed? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: schild on July 03, 2007, 12:29:01 PM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. What, you don't remember Seed? Seed is made of crushed up childhood dreams. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Yegolev on July 03, 2007, 12:44:40 PM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. What, you don't remember Seed? Seed is made of crushed up childhood dreams. New avatar, then. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Modern Angel on July 03, 2007, 02:21:20 PM Now someone competent can come in and make a decent car combat game. Hint- (http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/carw01.jpg) I like where your heads at! I repeat: Dark Wind Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Modern Angel on July 03, 2007, 02:25:58 PM Hahaha! WTB delusions! From their boards:
"Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick. ENOUGH with the [censored] doom and gloom "The sky is falling!" already!! Not only is a gift horse being looked in the mouth with this Sept thing, its being given a full body cavity search just prior to being cut up and dissected. Look. If it was 'the end' does it make any sense to make something free? NC/ND are like any other company--if they can squeeze money out of something, they will. Its business. Giving players that much free time before pulling the plug makes no frikkin sense whatsoever. Instead, giving players that much free time sounds more likely as an attempt to get people to stay on and see new content, to perhaps change their minds about cancelling. I'm not sure if whats on pts is ENOUGH to satisfy anyone, so its either that, or something we dont know about yet. Or, as others have said, maybe its when NC and ND part ways. *shrugs* In that case, is it over? I'm going to say not. Look how long they held onto Jumpgate, another not-so-succssful mmo, and now its going to get relaunched. Oh let's not mince words here. This game is not exactly in the best of health, and hasnt been in quite some time. But it only makes sense to end it when the costs of maintaining it outweigh the income it brings in. When/if that happens, the end will come like a mob hit--you wont see it coming, like Tony Soprano. Til then...its $15 a month. Cheap. I spend more on beer without even thinking about it. I think some perspective may be called for, here. Most of us still enjoy playing it, and this AA community is probably the best MMO community out there in SPITE of its tendency to devour itself with all of this pissing and moaning. Those of you who have left the game , and only stay on these boards to continue the endless arguing, whining, etc? [censored] off and leave already. Dont let the door hit you on the [censored] on the way out. Take that bitterness and spite and go play soemthing with frikkin elves or something. " Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: LK on July 03, 2007, 02:27:51 PM :roll:
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Righ on July 03, 2007, 02:37:40 PM Does this one win for shortest time between Retail and turning the lights off? Until Vanguard beats it, probably. E&B MCO AC2 AA Horizons is basically closed. The owners just aren't around to turn off the lights. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Falconeer on July 03, 2007, 04:39:22 PM MCO is the Firefly of the MMOs. Except we won't get the movie.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Strazos on July 03, 2007, 07:48:56 PM I actually played E&B and kind of liked parts of it.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Margalis on July 04, 2007, 01:43:00 AM E&B was really fun for the first couple of hours. Then it devolved into die-roll combat along with quest vending machines.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Amaron on July 04, 2007, 04:36:30 AM Thank god.
Now I'm going to go curl up in a ball in the shower Ace Ventura style because NetDevil is the only one even working on a new space MMO and after they flop horribly everyone will just let CCP own the whole genre. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Reg on July 04, 2007, 06:07:52 AM Why is NetDevil still in business? Their record is even worse than Turbines'. And why do people keep giving away valuable IP to second and third string operations like them?
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Merusk on July 04, 2007, 06:23:11 AM Why is NetDevil still in business? Their record is even worse than Turbines'. And why do people keep giving away valuable IP to second and third string operations like them? Because the first string proved they couldn't do any better, and wants a bigger cut of the profits? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Tebonas on July 04, 2007, 06:23:47 AM At least in Turbines case it worked out for the people giving them the IP (up to now at least).
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Modern Angel on July 04, 2007, 06:57:46 AM This is still the game that makes me sad. They willfully made it suck. That's the only explanation for how cars with guns can be bad.
This is going to be the one that could've been for a long time for me. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Tannhauser on July 04, 2007, 08:22:49 PM Someone needs to make a good space MMO where you can have both a ship and a character. No SWG doesn't count, it's not good.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Righ on July 05, 2007, 01:10:51 AM Now I'm going to go curl up in a ball in the shower Ace Ventura style because NetDevil is the only one even working on a new space MMO and after they flop horribly everyone will just let CCP own the whole genre. You mean other than Brebion (Infinity), Perpetual Entertainment (Star Trek Online) and Castle Thorn Software (Starquest Online) presumably. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Soln on July 05, 2007, 04:41:40 AM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. What, you don't remember Seed? Seed is made of crushed up childhood dreams. Yes and faerie tears and angel air. It wasn't scalable. Edit: the MMO forum needs a stickied Dead Pit list, wherein the unsuccessful ones get posted with dates. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Nevermore on July 05, 2007, 06:42:58 AM Quote [censored] off and leave already. I think they did, sir! Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 05, 2007, 07:32:57 AM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. What, you don't remember Seed? Seed is made of crushed up childhood dreams. New avatar, then. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 05, 2007, 12:20:00 PM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. Seed actually launched? I thought it was endless-Beta.What, you don't remember Seed? Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Morat20 on July 05, 2007, 12:26:15 PM Someone needs to make a good space MMO where you can have both a ship and a character. No SWG doesn't count, it's not good. Coming to EVE, I understand. :)Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: tmp on July 05, 2007, 05:30:17 PM Now someone competent can come in and make a decent car combat game. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Interstate76_cover.jpg)Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: CmdrSlack on July 05, 2007, 05:57:22 PM Without verifying, I am pretty sure AutoAssault lasted longer than Seed. Seed actually launched? I thought it was endless-Beta.What, you don't remember Seed? Well, the quality of the launch was endless Beta, but nope it actually went "live" or "retail" if you'd believe it. It is the first game where I cancelled my sub before the free period ran out. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 06, 2007, 06:07:09 AM Wow, ok. Really behind the times on that one. I stopped that noise in beta and figured it was just going to fade away.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Blackguard on July 07, 2007, 02:50:31 PM It's always sad to see a game go, and I can't help but feel sorry for those working on the game still or those who still play and love it, but as I mentioned on my blog, I'm not entirely surprised. It's so hard to identify with something as inhuman as a car or even a ship. I truly believe Auto Assault could have done a good deal better if they'd fully explored the human (and mutant etc.) element in the game and made the cars the combat focus (while still allowing people to fight without them). There were a few other problems with the game, but it was still fairly solid for what it set out to be.
I've always believed that you need to be able to identify with your avatar to really get immersed in a game, and the only game that has really proven me wrong (in the MMO world) is EVE. Motor City Online, Earth & Beyond, and now Auto Assault have proven me right, so EVE must just have something else (a player-driven universe with very complex social and political interactions, to start). Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Margalis on July 07, 2007, 10:33:16 PM It's always sad to see a game go, and I can't help but feel sorry for those working on the game still or those who still play and love it, but as I mentioned on my blog, I'm not entirely surprised. It's so hard to identify with something as inhuman as a car or even a ship. I truly believe Auto Assault could have done a good deal better if they'd fully explored the human (and mutant etc.) element in the game and made the cars the combat focus (while still allowing people to fight without them). There were a few other problems with the game, but it was still fairly solid for what it set out to be. Aren't you basically asking for them to do twice the work? The problem these vehicle games have with human avatars is that then you need two sets of models, two sets of items, two sets of combat rules, two sets of animations, design zones that work for both people on foot and people in vehicles, etc etc. Each will be half as good. In theory I agree that people want to relate to avatars, but pragmatically I have to say that doing two things poorly instead of one thing well is a very bad plan. Hedging your bets doesn't seem to work well in MMORPGs. I've always believed that doing a smaller number of things better is the best strategy 99 out of 100 times. Quote I've always believed that you need to be able to identify with your avatar to really get immersed in a game, and the only game that has really proven me wrong (in the MMO world) is EVE. Motor City Online, Earth & Beyond, and now Auto Assault have proven me right, so EVE must just have something else (a player-driven universe with very complex social and political interactions, to start). In E&B you could get out of your ship and walk around, and in AA you could get out of your car. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that second one) In EVE you can't - EVE is still going. I would draw the opposite conclusion: human avatar = fail. Because it's time spent that could be spent on something else. From what I know of AA and E&B, the problem was not stickiness really, the problem was that the core mechanics sucked. I think identifying with avatars is much more about retention than initial popularity, and the initial popularity was never there in AA and E&B. Edit: I tend to take an engineering perspective, 'cause that's what I am. To me, nearly everything boils down to application of limited resources. The biggest bang for the buck, etc etc. Obviously these are only my opinions and I don't mean to belittle or attack you in any way. Also, if what you are working on at 38Studios is good, give me a job there. :evil: Edit2: Google tells me that you could get out of your vehicle in AA, but couldn't really do much outside of it. So yeah, that seems like a waste of energy to me. Edit3: Congratulations on your recent change in marital status. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2007, 02:40:05 AM Honestly, having just 4 examples of MMO where you basically are your vehicle instead of a person, and 3 failed while 1 succeded I am not sure the problem lies in the "being the vehicle" part. Every one of those games had its reasons to fail:
- Motor City Online was ahead of its time and was released when the market was so small that it had no chances. Technicalities finished it off, and the lack of widespread boradband was another major factor. That same game wouldn't die now. - Earth & Beyond was pretty sucky and non-fun. All the space fans I knew were waiting for EVE anyway. Giant Space flying skulls? That was a laugh for sci-fi fans (yes, they were in E&B). - Both Games were EA. I think this helped them to die sooner. They could be still alive, as many other similar products, if they were owned by SOE, or Funcom for example... - Auto Assault, once again, was a nifty idea. Many wanted to love it. Poor implementation and execution, and the lack of fun, are killers. To sum it up, I use myself as an example. I love vehicles, ships, cars and everything. I am the perfect target for those games. Still, except for Motor City Online (which I loved) they failed to be fun. While MCO was a competitive game of its kind, the other two are poor dikus. Yes, maybe if those poor dikus were about orcs and elves they could have gathered more subscriptions, but the main point is that they were poor dikus. That's why they died. As did Asheron's Call 2. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 08, 2007, 05:49:27 AM Quote from: Margalis Edit2: Google tells me that you could get out of your vehicle in AA, but couldn't really do much outside of it. So yeah, that seems like a waste of energy to me. You got out of your car in AA to conduct trade, commerce, and get quests in AA. This happened in instanced public-spaces that worked and felt very different from the core automobile zones. It felt slapped on as it came relatively late in development. The game was all Havok-engine MadMax until they slapped on the avatars, in a bid to form a deeper relationship between player and their avatar.Quote from: Blackguard the only game that has really proven me wrong (in the MMO world) is EVE It's easier for a casual player to relate to a game world when they see an avatar on the screen and can say "that is me". However, EVE is not for casual players, being one of the most immersive MMOs there is (in the sense of players impacting the world and seeing results thereof). EVE players can say "that is me [inside that ship there]", but their "presence" in the game world is substantiated by everything they do.In static pre-defined worlds built and expanded on content gates delivered in a contrived guaranteed-eventual-win sequence, about the only thing a player has to feel immersed is their avatar, and those of their friends. So I'd contend that the need for a simulated-humanoid avatar is tied to specific types of game experiences only. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2007, 06:09:59 AM Quote You got out of your car in AA to conduct trade, commerce, and get quests in AA. This happened in instanced public-spaces that worked and felt very different from the core automobile zones. It felt slapped on as it came relatively late in development. The game was all Havok-engine MadMax until they slapped on the avatars, in a bid to form a deeper relationship between player and their avatar. It's not that it was slapped on or very different. It's just that it doesn't matter at all. Players can enjoy instanced houses in EQ2 or avatars in Auto Assault but that's not the main game. That's a bonus. If the main gmae rules, avatars or instanced houses are a good addition. If the main game doesn't stand on its feet, there's no kind of decoration you can put in to make subscibers pay. Hell, WoW and LotRO don't have houses for example. EVE doesn't have avatars (now they are just putting it in as a bonus). In AA it was very nice to get on your feet and having an avatar, I loved it. It's just that it doesn't add to the main game. When I was out shooting and getting bored with the content, I couldn't care less about being able to /dance in the outpost. On a side note, about cars, cars with guns and stuff.. I played Upshift Strike Racer (http://strikeracer.gpotato.com/) (a less cartoony and more FastnFurious version of Mario Kart). Lotsa fun. EDIT: merged two posts. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 08, 2007, 09:19:38 AM You just made my point, even though you think you're disagreeing :)
The avatars mattered in AA because they were needed for trade and commerce. What actually didn't matter in AA was trade and commerce. But even requiring that, they didn't need the avatars. They slapped those on to make it more mass-market apparent, probably diverting resources that could have gone to other things. Now, Houses are a different thing altogether. They DO matter in EQ2 because that's where, again, most trade happens. What is a "nice addition" is the ability to customize it with furniture, but that's less a required aspect of their core function, which was originally to require players be logged in to sell stuff, EQ1 Bazaar style. They gave players houses in which to do this so they could be instantiated so they could have these avatars logged in for all the time they were going to stand there to be item sellers, but not incur a huge load against the main public-space areas of the cities and adventure zones. And this drives to the core point about Houses. Houses aren't worth putting into a game unless they an instrinsic part of the experience. And that doesn't mean some outsized bank box. That means they give players some demonstrable benefit, to first ensure they bother grinding to get one and then use it. Only in that way can you justify not only the house, but the engine for customizing it and then the game mechanic of winning things to customize with. You may not care about Housing, which is perfectly fine because in a DIKU game, neither do I. But when a game gets or has it, it's because the devs figured enough people would. And LoTRO is going to get Housing, per many Turbine confirmations. And WoW will too at some point, likely in the style of DAoC. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Modern Angel on July 08, 2007, 10:45:34 AM Auto Assault failed because it was EQ style Diku with cars instead of your standard fantasy fare. It was transparent about doing so while the devs shrieked loudly about how different it was. Nobody really bought it.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Falconeer on July 08, 2007, 11:17:55 AM Darniaq,
I didn't think we were disagreeing, I just thought you were talking low about the avatar part of AA, while I think it was decent and it was good to have it. Sadly, its decent-ness didn't add anything to the fun factor of the game. About houses, it was just an example of stuff that can be completely absent without hurting a game at all. WoW will add houses, but no one shunned WoW at release because it didn't have houses, nor its (or LotRO's) subs got hit by the lack of houses. Same its true for avatars to me: if your game is good enough no one will avoid it because it doesn't have avatars (again, EVE). Everyone loves to dress the paperdoll, but a game can completely live withou it if it's a good, fun, original (not a diku) game. Of course they will add houses, you have to keep your game fresh. But no one would unsubscribe froma DIKU because there are no houses to customize. To sum it up once again, I think I disagree with Blackguard: the failure of AA and E&B had nothing to do with their vehicular nature. It had to do with the fact that they didn't have orc and elves AND that they weren't fun enough to stand out. It's not about vehicles, it's about fantasy and diku. Anything different from that need to be very good (EVE) or struggle to survive. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 08, 2007, 01:26:48 PM I don't think we can draw a direct comparison between all games of the genre. In fact, I agree with folks who don't call MMOs a "genre" to begin with... but that's another thread :)
EVE is not "very good" against some universal metric. Because there is no universal metric. It has great appeal to a niche, and plies them well. But it's not a get-in-and-out easily-approached automatic-enjoyment game like WoW, itself nothing more than a whole line of DIKU games with a strong gamer-focused IP and crapload of dollars and talent thrown at it. Where I agree is on the "fantasy and Elves" thing, but mostly because tradition spawned proliferation that spawned success that it's been hard to argue against. This too is a whole new thread, but basically, FPS games need to be sci-fi, stats-based games must be Fantasy. Otherwise you better have a big license or be a big name developer, and there just aren't that many of them. So I agree that part of AA's failure was that it wasn't fantasy and Elves. But the other part was the general user experience. It wasn't good enough even to maintain the folks it attracted apparently, or they'd have kept it around long enough to have it transparently funded by NC All. As to Houses, again, if the game play provides relevant reward, as in impacting game play and character advancement, it's a requirement worth delivering. Think what SWG or EQ2 would have been like without Housing at launch. Think what UO today would be like without Housing (not at launch, since Housing wasn't in at launch). This is very different than WoW or LoTRO without Housing, because those are just DIKUs where you only need a character and a paperdoll. Finally, on Avatars, name a highly realtime market-success in which a player is playing a single protagonist that isn't represented by an Avatar :) Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Margalis on July 08, 2007, 02:15:34 PM Quote I didn't think we were disagreeing, I just thought you were talking low about the avatar part of AA, while I think it was decent and it was good to have it. Sadly, its decent-ness didn't add anything to the fun factor of the game. It was good to have, except that the time spent on that wasn't spent on making the core gameplay better. Features don't get added in a vacuum, time and money are spent on them, resources that could go to something else. It's not a matter of "do you want human avatars." It's a matter of "where do we divert resources from to make human avatars?" Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Sky on July 09, 2007, 07:15:49 AM Auto Assault failed because it was EQ style Diku with cars instead of your standard fantasy fare. It was transparent about doing so while the devs shrieked loudly about how different it was. Nobody really bought it. This is what I thought after playing the beta. I ~love~ vehicle-based combat games. BF1942 and Planetside are some of my favorite games. AA had a really shitty implementation.I did like my mutant green mohawk guy in shiny brass armor from the three seconds I saw him after character creation. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Falconeer on July 09, 2007, 07:57:10 AM Quote Auto Assault Closure: NetDevil Reacts Based on interview with Scott Brown (CEO, NetDevil) Article by Dana Massey NetDevil has no plans to salvage their automobile MMORPG Auto Assault, according to CEO Scott Brown. Publisher NCSoft announced early this week that after an inglorious year and four months of commercial service they will close the doors on August 31st of this year. "We talked about it and sort of left it where it is," Brown told WarCry in a phone interview late Thursday. "We just couldn't come to an agreement." NCSoft owns the intellectual property that is Auto Assault. This means they own the name, the story, the idea, the art and anything that directly relates to the game. The code-base and engine that power the game remain the property of NetDevil. "We are certainly looking at other ways we can use what we do own," Brown added. Brown added that no jobs would be lost as a result of NCSoft's decision. NetDevil still has Jumpgate in active service and development continues on an update. They're also working on LEGO Universe and Warmonger. Nonetheless, the Colorado based developer put a lot of time into the project. "We poured our life into that thing," Brown admitted. "We thought it was a cool idea... for whatever reason it didn't take." The experience did provide them with a wealth of lessons that Brown believes can only help its future projects. "[Good development] is focusing on a few things and getting them until [they're] great," he told us. He admitted that with Auto Assault they tried to do a lot of systems and then improved them slowly over time. In future projects, they're going to focus in on each system and make it hum before they move on. For him, this is the key to development, especially on the scale of MMOs. He also mentioned that the company bares no ill-will towards their former publisher NCSoft. There simply wasn't a market for the project and if the chance arose, NetDevil would work with NCSoft again. However, another lesson NetDevil took from Auto Assault is how to better work that kind of relationship. In future developer-publisher agreements they'll ensure that both parties have the proper incentives that make the project work. Brown's comments appear to dash any last hope that Auto Assault could be saved. It will close its doors permanently at the end of August. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Furiously on July 09, 2007, 08:22:21 AM Quote ... However, another lesson NetDevil took from Auto Assault is how to better work that kind of relationship. In future developer-publisher agreements they'll ensure that both parties have the proper incentives that make the project work. I somehow think that might be the most telling part of the whole closure. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Yegolev on July 09, 2007, 09:31:36 AM What to do with the engine? Replace the cars with pirates, vampires and ninjas, do some RVR.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: LK on July 09, 2007, 09:51:50 AM What to do with the engine? Replace the cars with pirates, vampires and ninjas, do some RVR. Or even better....Auto Assault...IN SPAAAAAACE. Wait, I guess that's the new Jumpgate. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 09, 2007, 11:33:37 AM Truly realtime deformable terrain in a persistent zone (I assume a population cap exists, I just don't know it)... you'd think they could license this to companies. Before it was canned, Mythica was going to do the same thing, with the Fantasy setting (years later I hope Microsoft didn't can that project because they decided to back Vanguard).
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Yegolev on July 09, 2007, 11:34:22 AM Yeah, what happened to voxels? And Dreamland?
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Stephen Zepp on July 09, 2007, 12:24:07 PM Truly realtime deformable terrain in a persistent zone (I assume a population cap exists, I just don't know it)... you'd think they could license this to companies. Before it was canned, Mythica was going to do the same thing, with the Fantasy setting (years later I hope Microsoft didn't can that project because they decided to back Vanguard). It's not rocket science. I wrote it in Torque before I was even an employee, with a highly optimized (and therefore difficult to add new features to) terrain model. Shadowbane had it as well, although (no disrespect intended) it was a pretty half-completed implementation, and buggy as hell. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Venkman on July 09, 2007, 01:15:45 PM Yea, but it's already done :)
I didn't think Shadowbane actually transformed the whole terrain, but it's been years since I've been there. SWG does have it though, though AA's was better. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Stephen Zepp on July 09, 2007, 01:53:46 PM Yea, but it's already done :) I didn't think Shadowbane actually transformed the whole terrain, but it's been years since I've been there. SWG does have it though, though AA's was better. SB used the concept of a "deformation area", which meant that the main data stayed the same (networking terrain itself is never a particularly smart thing to do given the information density and therefore bandwidth volume), and then when deformations on the server occured (planting a seed for example), the server networked down to the client to the effect of "hey, this area from (x,y) to (x1,y1) is now deformed, fix your copy.". In general, it's a pretty good algorithm to use overall, especially for heightmapped terrains. When you start getting into vertex/poly based terrains, it becomes a completely different ball of wax. Disclaimer: the above description was via "observational deduction"--meaning I guessed, but it certainly acted as if that was the implementation. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Modern Angel on July 09, 2007, 03:16:07 PM So Scott Brown learned precisely nothing from pouring so much money and time into the project.
"For whatever reason it didn't take." Right. I can't imagine how seeing ROGUE CAR, TANK CAR, HEALER CAR and then hopping in only to find that your shots were automated d100 rolls might strike someone as completely fucking nuts. I really like how there's this subtext of BLAME NCSOFT in all that instead of just owning up to making a gigantic turd. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: tazelbain on July 09, 2007, 03:23:36 PM Ya, high comedy. The question still remains why anyone is giving them more money. Maybe I need to start an indie MMO development company. Hey, at least I don't have a track record of complete failure.
Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: Amaron on July 09, 2007, 04:25:32 PM Now I'm going to go curl up in a ball in the shower Ace Ventura style because NetDevil is the only one even working on a new space MMO and after they flop horribly everyone will just let CCP own the whole genre. You mean other than Brebion (Infinity), Perpetual Entertainment (Star Trek Online) and Castle Thorn Software (Starquest Online) presumably. Well I just kind of exclude games like Starquest Online when I say MMO but I guess that's not very precise of me. Star Trek MMO is vaporware at this point I figure. I had forgotten Infinity though. Still though Infinity seems like kind of an odd ball wild card that might be good or might not be good. Which all makes me want to cry in the shower again. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: tmp on July 09, 2007, 05:12:08 PM Quote Auto Assault Closure: NetDevil Reacts Based on interview with Scott Brown (CEO, NetDevil) Article by Dana Massey NetDevil still has Jumpgate in active service and development continues on an update. They're also working on LEGO Universe and Warmonger. Nonetheless, the Colorado based developer put a lot of time into the project. The experience did provide them with a wealth of lessons that Brown believes can only help its future projects. "[Good development] is focusing on a few things and getting them until [they're] great," he told us. If there's wealth of lessons to take from fate of AA, someone been skipping classes. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: AngryGumball on July 09, 2007, 11:49:59 PM What I do not understand about the CEO statement.
They earned good experience, does this mean they kept most everyone that worked on AA and shifted them to other projects within Netdevil. Seems like its always stories about how most teams dissolve after the project is completed such that they move onto other companies. Was that simply a PR statement or is Netdevil a different gaming company than others. Such that you really are part of a company and not simply a hired gun. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: UnSub on July 10, 2007, 01:09:23 AM Truly realtime deformable terrain in a persistent zone (I assume a population cap exists, I just don't know it)... you'd think they could license this to companies. Before it was canned, Mythica was going to do the same thing, with the Fantasy setting (years later I hope Microsoft didn't can that project because they decided to back Vanguard). Warmonger, Netdevil's non-Lego non-Jumpgate project, is planning to use demorphable terrain as a key selling point. Blow a hole through a wall, destroy the stairs so people can't come up behind you, that kind of thing. However, the only info on it is the puff piece on their website. Title: Re: Auto Assault is done! Post by: UnSub on July 10, 2007, 01:12:18 AM Seems like its always stories about how most teams dissolve after the project is completed such that they move onto other companies. I think Netdevil may have kept AA alive long enough to get the Lego MMO sorted and started transferring people to that project. Or maybe Jumpgate started to get boosted due to AA devs shifting house. AFAIK, most dev teams dissolve when a project goes bust because they have nothing left to do; at NetDevil everyone they wanted to keep had another project / projects to go on to. |