f13.net

 Bend Over and Take it Like a Spartan!  (http://community.godsandheroes.com/betasignup/index.php)  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/moon2.gif)

LOLERZ, all of tehm?  Well, cept Vanguard where I only played the forum version.

Damn you 2007 with your betas and hyped releases. Why couldn't like... even a quarter of these come out last year where the most notable releases were fucking Dark and Light and RF Online  :roll:

So far, I've seen hydras, gorgons, minotaurs, centaurs and various other mythical monstrosities.  All taken from Greek mythology. 

So why's it called Rome Rising?  I know the Romans' nicked all of their mythology from the Greeks in the first place because they were too fucking unimaginative to come up with their own but is that just a subtle way of saying "Hey - our game is going to be a total copy of everybody else's game!"

SOE publishes it. That should have answered your question right there.

Gah, too many betas!

FUCK!

Fury, Warhammer, Conan, Gods and Heroes...

Haemish, Haemish ... you should know better. SOE is *only* publishing it. If you're going to level the charge of copying or imitation, it's got to go to Perpetual, who is developing it. :)

I should add, I think that GnH actually looks kind of interesting. Not my thing long-term, but I really do want to play it for a little while to feel out how the minion element works out long-term. The animations, also: totally kickass. Probably not my MMOG of the Year, but I think it's going to be quality with a Q and not a K.

Sure, Perpetual is developing it. But being published by SOE shows that there is a 5 out of 7 chance the game will be a diku-based level/class clone. 6 out of 7 is you count SWG as a diku (which is pretty much is since the CU).

Oh, in that respect you're dead on. It's a diku-style game with some extra layers of frosting on top.

I guess, other than the fact that I am getting very tired of fantasy (except for WAR), I'm not sure what's wrong with diku-style? It works pretty well ... why fix what ain't all that broke?

Until you are on your 5th or 6th diku-style game that isn't badly done, just nothing new. Like LotRO. Had that been my first MMORPG, I might have loved it. By the time I played it, I was so sick of that style it's pure mediocrity turned me off (and incidentally back to WoW).

But I've been harping on diku-MOG's since 2002. I'm sick to death of them.

Awesome.  It thinks the entered security ID is invalid everytime and I can't be bothered to open up IE for it.

I like how WoW and the Burning Crusade took 2 slots, but AC1 and 2 take one.

I don't want to e-peen, but I have a feeling we've played a similar number of Massive games.  :lol:
I'm certain you've played that body of titles *more* than I have, though.

But, to the point, I understand where you're coming from. The game that shatters everything and gets an enormous playerbase will prolly have little resemblance to EverQuest. The question, though, is that if this theoretical game is 1.) that popular and 2.) not-diku-based, will it be something old MMOG hags like?

I imagine the answer is no.

Not true.  For one thing, the Romans had, and continued to have something called the Lares.  Basically they were Gods of the home and hearth, and the ancestors of the Romans.  They also worshipped beings known as the "Numina", basically shapeless, vague, but powerful beings sort of like Cthulhu's Old Gods.  Also, the Romans probably lived under Etruscan domination for a good long while, and the Etruscans would have picked up of a good deal of Greek religion from southern Italy (Magna Graecia, "Greater Greece").  This naturally filtered over to the Romans, who just transliterated a lot of the Gods to those they'd already worshipped.  I forget the scholarly term for doing this, but it isn't at all rare in polytheistic cultures.

And for the record, a lot of the Greek gods were picked up from Persia, Egypt, and Phoenicia.  So it's not the Romans just "stealing" Greek religion, it's more that the Mediterranean is a small lake where these cultures all blend with each other.

I'm really tempted to put Windows 3.x as my operating system... Why the hell do they even have that available?

I was generalising.  I have it in for Roman mythology because it's dull as ditchwater.  I loathed studying Latin literature.  The histories may have been interesting but their poems and their epic tales left a lot to be desired.  And their comedy was totally lacking, especially when you compare it to the Greek satirists like, for example, Aristophanes.  (Ancient) Greek's just a much better language all round.


Well, I'd argue the point over the Persian influence - assuming you're referring to the Zoroastrian mythology.  I personally think that had more of an influence on Roman mythology than Greek but, seeing as how the Persian and Greek histories were so interlinked I'd be prepared to concede the shared mythologies.  The Phoenician influence on Greek mythology is totally apparent - yes, the Greeks stole from the Phoenicians.  The Egyptians obviously had a huge influence on most of the subsequent civilizations in that area being one of the first and the greatest.  I didn't ever feel that Egyptian mythology had as much corrolation as the Phoenicians did on the Greeks and the Greeks did on the Romans but I will also admit to knowing less about it.

However, for the record, Greeks > Romans.  There's no room for debate.  Greeks had raphanidoun, Romans didn't.  End of argument.  :-P

Also, the Mediterranean is not a lake.  It's fucking stinking, effluent filled shit pool that's cold, grimy and crap for diving in. 

If I was a dev on a modern game and you said you would beta it on windows 3.11 I would go out of my way to ensure you got in early.  Then I would flag your account so that all your bug reports and opened tickets were printed out and posted on a wall for everyone else to get a good giggle out of.

If you're into ineffectual girly men who take it in the ass, sure.  ETA:  Oh, and I can see you bringing up Alexander to refute this.  Macedonian, bitch!

Personally I prefer the 20 mile forced march, build a fortified camp, oh and while you're at it, why not an aqueduct and a road?  Romans.

Are you guys really starting a pissing match over the awesomeness of two long dead civilizations?

... shoulda read this board closer months ago.

I get irked when people talk up the Greeks.  Yeah, they had the art, the poetry, and the philosophy, but does that compare to massive engineering feats and an all consuming thirst for martial glory?  I think not.

It will not be more popular than WoW, nor should it be. Let the plebs play Diku, I want some motherfucking Cake. The future of GOOD MMO's is and always has been niche. Or as I put it, embrace the niche, bitches.

More niche-based games like Eve (business model, not gameplay per se) means more good games that fit a more refined audience in more ways. Less of the please everyone style of MMOG.

In short, the Mature MMOG that I wrote about five years ago.

Julius Caesar was a known bisexual. I don't think either civilization can claim the upper *AHEM* hand when it comes to rampant buggery.

Unknown, he was rumored to be bisexual, but then a guy like Caesar had a lot of enemies.  And if he was it's also not known if he was the pitcher or the catcher; something rather crucial to the Roman worldview.

One thing is known, his men would sing little ditties when marching through his triumphs, "Romans, your wives you'd better tie down, the bald-headed whoremonger is back in town".   :-D 

I want to try it, but I just know that they wouldn't get the lore and mythology perfect, and it'D drive me nuts.

Sources tell me that they actually have at least 1 guy on board who is really anal about getting these things right, but who knows.... :|

Reading that comment after quickly glancing at the discussion of Caesar's "bisexuality" was kind of....well.....weird.

Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?

It's quite confusing and I don't pretend to know how it works but apparently if you signed up back then and have a forum account you might already be able to get a beta key.  You don't get an email saying "you're in", you have to log in and apply for a key.  There was also a way to get more beta keys for your friends if you petition in game for them, I don't know if that is still happening.

Publish, not make.

Yeah, you need to sign up for a forum account, activate that, then sign up for beta and activate that. That'll get you into closed beta, more than likely.

I don't think I'm  :nda: to say that they are stress testing on the weekends.

Correction: Neither. (http://razorwire.warcry.com/news/view/76042-Perpetual-finally-dumps-SOE-will-publish-Gods-and-Heroes-themselves)

I wish I could say that was a bright idea. But SOE has fantastic distribution channels.

Edit: I don't know why our boy at razor wire treats them like that about publishing.

There's a school of thought that follows the ideal of "SOE is responsible for everything wrong in their MMOs - they wrecked SWG, what happened to MxO is their fault and Vangard flopped because of SOE".

I'm guessing Razorwire is of that school.

Having looked at the company website, GnH and STO appear to be the only offerings that Perpetual have. They are yet to prove themselves and I wonder if their EA / UO or Lucasarts backgrounds have prepared them for what they've taken on. I also wonder where their money is coming from - if it's venture capital, I can't see that source keeping their cheque books open as the markets go straight down in the US. That they've got an untested middleware MMO package that Bioware has picked up - until this middleware gets proven by a number of successful MMO launches, it's just another thing distracting them from their games development.

Which is a long way of getting to: who pulled the plug here? Did Perpetual dump SOE because they weren't happy with the current deal, or did SOE, skittish at another potential Vangard, reduce its risk by only agreeing to do what Perpetual pays them to do?

SOE is still marketing and distributing GnH and will managed the servers - it's just not the publisher anymore. So either GnH can't be that unhappy with them, or the rest of the contract was ironclad.

I tried to hate SOE.  Unfortunately, my hate list is still filled up with oil and insurance companies.   :|  Maybe my hate priorities are screwy but just as soon as everyone has proper medical benefits and the world stops coveting oil at the expense of people's lives, I'll add them.  I promise!

You just need more room for hate. Having said that, SOE gets my overall indifference these days. I've got lots of that.

I can't be bothered to hate a company that produces a luxury item.

Hm. SOE made and published the only mmo I play. Tough to hate that.

How can anyone hate the sad, not yet potty trained, puppy of MMO publishers? Poor thing doesn't know which corner to whiz in so he just piddles everywhere.

What?

Come on schild. You know what I am getting at here. No real need to spell it out is there?

You're saying you have have issues?

I do have issues. Doesn't everyone? I don't have 'issues' with SOE.

I just think they are pursuing a losing long term strategy by sealing every deal anywhere they can and buying up everything they can get on the cheap.

If I said they were looking like the CountryWide Financial of MMO publishers, would that make more sense?

Ahh, the famous random guy on the internet intuition.  Very useful for forecasting multi-billion dollar corporate strategies.

Obviously we have found our new Allan Greenspan, lets get this guy in charge of the Treasury Dept. stat!

Thing is, I don't care if I am right or not. It is just my current thought on the subject. It has no influence here or anywhere else beyond me.

Why hate? A corporation or my opinion. Are you wounded by it?

That wasn't hate.  It was laughter.

You are a very silly person.

I take that as a high compliment. It's something I aspire to.

Strangely enough I both easily understood and appreciated the whole "dog that piddles all over" analogy.  If you put it further into the whole "potty train your dog by putting him in a carrier", then you would have to say SoE is in a Box AND still peeing all over... so they might have to sleep in some of it someday.

I guess it lacks some of the flair you would need to make a straight business analogy, but it worked in my mind.

SOE =

(http://www.scottish-dermatology.org.uk/images2/scot_derm/bruce_father.jpg)

"I know it is hard. Being a developer is. Now son... son, look at me. I cannot be the developer. You, and you alone can put out this game. What I tell you, you must do. Not for me, not for yourself, but for your project!"

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!!!!!

"I need a trailer IN MY trailer!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCAeVRh2b8U

That article is misleading. SOE is still doing the retail distribution and marketing. Perpetual has sole control over the development of the product:

http://gh.warcry.com/news/view/76044-Perpetual-Reassumes-Publishing-Duties-From-SOE

Strange business agreement, very unlike SOE. Don't they usually domineer every project they come in contact with?







lol, I said domineer.

No, this is tin-foil bullshit.

SOE itself even has several arms that have nothing to do with the other arms and exercise little control over eachother.

In case you are keeping an eye on it. (http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2266-Interview-Perpetual-Downsizes-Gods-Heroes-Team-Moves-Launch)  Short version:  Delayed to 2008, layoffs.

I heard bioware had bought (http://www.perpetual.com/press/) the platform this is based on for their still secret MMO, I hope it doesn't screw up bioware's KotOR Online!! MMO.

I think Perpetual has bitten off more than it can chew and has realised that its bread and butter isn't going to be G&H, it's going to be Star Trek Online.

I'd say more, but  :nda:

Star Trek Online is a loooong way from being finished, though.

Indeed.. too long.  I'm dying for a decent sci-fi mmo.  Sooo tired of fantasy.

But G&H isn't a fantasy MMO - it's a Roman Mythology MMO, don'tyaknow.

Taking a quick look at G&H, it seems that it was going to be serving two main roles:

1) Serving as a project to develop and test Perpetual's MMO middleware package.

2) Serving as a revenue generator while Star Trek Online (which has to cost big $$$ as an IP) was being worked on.

The delay doesn't make the first role look very promising and fails miserably in the second role.

They also said they are not going to be doing anything full bore on it until G&H ships...soooo.......  :tinfoil:

I haven't liked any of the design talk i have heard coming out of Perpetual about Star trek, its sounds like another Eve (as far as ship combat goes).

One good necro deserves another!

Gods and Heroes possibly back under development at Heatwave.  (http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/16278/Gods-and-Heroes-Gods-Heroes-Reborn.html)

Could be a smart move - pick up a game and the engine cheap, work on bringing things up to scratch and save a lot of development time. Perpetual / P2 had set up to make a MMO middleware platform along with their titles, so this could also be a part of Heatwave's plans.

Heatwave's employee list. (http://www.sunsword.com/)

I took the fact that this went unposted here for the entire day as a reassuring sign that nobody gave a fuck.  Maybe Heatwave is hoping that Percy Jackson and Clash of the Titans (and I guess God of War 3 as well) are going to make Greek Mythology the next big thing.  Personally, I think it's stupid to purchase something that not even SOE even bothered to try and save.

I don't know why you attached a Heatwave employee list. The only sure thing is Castoro and Binky (who wasn't on the original list). Everyone else was canned. I'd say they might have 15-20 people if lucky. Honestly though, I can't be sure, maybe they have 100. I do know they don't have enough to make an actual game though.

I doubt they have enough to make an actual game judging by their website (http://www.heatwaveinteractive.com/#home).  Their only completed project so far seems to be an iphone app of Samuel L. Jackson saying "funny" things.

But they're working on T.I.'s masterpiece entry into gaming: Platinum life.

The employee list was there because I was wondering if this was just Perpetual under another guise. Didn't know they'd all been let go.

Reasons for posting were about not someone picking up G&H, but buying the engine underneath. And to hopefully provide something else to discuss other than if Robert Jordan was a bad writer or not (hint: he was).

Id pay $14.99 a month for that

They have a facebook game completed also!

Everyone is so cynical, I say cheer for the new guys, and laugh if they fail.

An, ahem, interesting mascot/logo...

They're not even a little new.

Once upon a time ...

If SOE bought and released an unimaginative rehashed WoW clone, they get pilloried and laughed at mercilessly. It will just be another fail MMOG in their repertoire of fail MMOGs (MxO, Vanguard etc.) Their shareholders will hold management's feet to the fire.

On the other hand, its kinda okay for a small company to buy the said incomplete game, finish it up and release the unimaginative and rehashed WoW clone.

Expectations are lot a lower for small companies. People expect a lot more from SOE, thats probably why they dropped it in the first place.

/necro

Checked my email today and lo' and behold Heatwave was wise enough to retain the original Alpha/Beta testers' contact info.  So, I'm here to confirm that the game is apparently alive and well.  They're going to be ramping up some beta cycles starting tomorrow (with a basic stress test).  I believe there was a 'resurrection' test a while back in late Aug., but heh...  I couldnt be bothered back then.  For all I know they've been testing for the past 1.5 months.

Be advised, this is really "hot off the press" so shit is REAL 'basic.'
Beta Sign-up (http://heatwave.us1.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=9f2ef2d5231c92b6aa1db5e1f&id=2160bab772)
That link MAY only be available for ONE person... so good luck

New website:  http://hwp-alpha-ext.godsandheroes.com/

I will say that the Alpha when Perp. had it was mostly feature complete.  I have no idea what Heatwave is bringing to the table, but honestly it wouldnt have to be much to shovel out a complete game, relatively speaking.  Especially since this go'round will be F2P.


Perhaps more later after I peruse the NDA.

Aaaaand yah, there's a lengthy NDA - so sorry guys, no details (not hard to find lots of info. though obviously).  I will say that as an F2P game it'll likely be well worth playing depending on the pay structure.

Good luck getting into beta.

Did anyone try that beta app. link?  Did it work?

It signed me up for the newsletter.

Same. It had some wonky fields too...

Frak, I'll see what I can do.

I only entered my email address and it seems to have worked (at least for the newsletter sign-up).

Same as UnSub. Finally got a legit email back saying I was in.

I just figured if they can't do a beta sign-in form that works properly, and has sensible fields, I don't really trust them to create a MMO.

All i got was the newsletter.

Well technically, they didnt create it.  Perpetual did.  All they're doing now is pretty much manning the servers and getting ready to take your money.   :grin:
Heatwave is a small F2P browsergamey studio.  Lucky they even HAVE a beta app.

Also, remember I did say what I sent was extremely new.  They've since updated their site:
http://www.godsandheroes.com/

You can sign up for beta there.  One app. might hold more weight than the other, so I'd just sign up using both.   :oh_i_see:

Based on the letters, I received from Heatwave Interactive, it does look like they are about to
let more betatesters in during the weeks to come and people using  your link are "next in line"
according to their mail.

So the link should have better weight. :-)

Got a major soft spot for this one since it was my first job in the industry and I put a whole lot of hours into keeping the beta servers running.  I'd love to see it make it to launch, but for the people wondering last page it is definitely not the old Perpetual crew working on it now.

Is this version going to have PvP?

You worked on this title? Id love to pick your brain about servers and hosting.

I did, but not in a particularly senior role so I'm not sure how much picking there is to be done.  I was an assistant build manager and general lackey.  Great gig.  Towards the end I spent the majority of my time logged into the beta servers playing all night (would have done that anyways :) ) and shelling in to restart things whenever the game crashed.

Got signed up for this - this was definitely on my radar when it was first announced years ago and I was saddened to see it killed.   

This beta is REALLY confusing! I signed up, but never got an official "You're in!" email. Then I get this "Hey, thanks for testing. Wanna stress test for us too?" email.

What the hell is going on!

Check your spam folder?
Also, try registering and/or logging into the game with the email you used to apply.  They may have just added you automatically w/o a key.

If you got the Stress test invite but didn't get a key, you can email them to correct the problem. They'll get you a key pretty quickly.

Of course, the stress test is over for now, but there'll be another soon.

I can try emailing anyone who is interested a beta invite that was in an email when they announced the stress test.  Not sure if it will work, but PM your email and I can do that.

The stress test key is also a general beta key.

I know ;-). I'm in game checking thos game out. I just wasn't sure of the friend stress test invite would give a key for the regular beta.

I uninstalled this as fast as I could.

MMO Herpes? Care to elaborate on the suck?

Cant.

Really, even saying how fast he uninstalled it is a grey area.

Can I PM someone for the Stress test e-mail with the details on getting setup? I got the thank you email, but not the initial one. They sent me a key with no instructions on where to download or use the key.

You download the client from a link in the email, then set up an account from the client application button, then apply the beta key during account set up.

Right, right. Forgot about the  :nda:

I don't have the email with the link, just the thank you email and a support email from them after realizing I wasn't given a key.

I'm in the same situation, so I resigned up in an attempt to get a key. Nope. Must have to send something to support.

Just reply to the Thank You email. It goes directly to support and they got back to me within the day.

I don't think its too bad.  I won't go into more until I read what are NDA rules are.

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13793.0

I guess making a comparison of the game to another would be bad.  Kinda hard to know what is or isnt' bad so I'll just wait until open public beta.  Let's just say that I do enjoy it, but I am a pretty easy person to please so that doesn't mean everyone will.

So, anyone with that email that includes the download link?

Edit: Removed link. NDA. PM Next time. Thanks though! - NiX

Stress test this weekend so they're giving out keys pretty readily.
New beta link:
http://heatwave.us1.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=9f2ef2d5231c92b6aa1db5e1f&id=2160bab772

Looks like more invites went out; just got a key myself. Was this supposed to be any good? Downloading now; not sure if there's still an NDA but I'll check before I say any more.

I got some sort of beta invite.  I'm very confused.   Didn't I already beta test this game like a decade ago?  I must be remembering something else.

You may have. Someone bought this title up and finished development.

I don't know if finished is quite the word I'd use. 

Might also be thinking of Roma Victor, as well.

Gods and Heros was originally a Perpetual Entertainment development. ( The guys who had the Star trek MMO being developed before Cryptic, who bought the assets )

Is FINISHING is the right word. I've been in beta for a while, but haven't played it a whole bunch.

I dunno, Feel free to ad-lib.

Sorry if I've said this above but: G&H would have been a mediocre game if it had launched under Perpetual. It didn't even have PvP and everything else was relatively standard, meaning that it wouldn't have stood out at all except for its setting.

I've got an idea that Heatwave picked this up thinking it would be a relatively easy task of getting it to launch, only to find a lot of gaps that needed filling.

The game really just ended up being a template for the squad-based stuff, which they ported over to STO.

For those interested, open beta is starting.

From the email sent:

beta key or lost access to your account, visit http://www.playgodsandheroes.com (http://www.playgodsandheroes.com) and sign up.

Download the client here:
Http://Godsandheroes.com/download (Http://Godsandheroes.com/download)

Uh, so, this game is out? It's purchasable on Steam.

I remember trying the beta for this a hobillion years ago. It's 40 bucks.

So how is it?

I tried it in one of the earlier stages of beta, and they've supposedly made some changes since then. It wasn't bad. I didn't get very far in it. It very much felt like a less polished WoW with Roman mythology as its backstory and some pet-type stuff that I barely got into. It didn't suck, but it didn't light my ass on fire.