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Title: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on May 30, 2007, 05:32:36 PM https://betacenter.eamythic.com/signup.php
Edit: (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/images/smilies/lol2.gif) Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: sam, an eggplant on May 30, 2007, 05:59:24 PM Grazie, signore!
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: NiX on May 30, 2007, 05:59:33 PM Do we still sign up despite what Schilds doing?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Righ on May 30, 2007, 06:08:27 PM Signe says yes. :)
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Big Gulp on May 30, 2007, 06:09:34 PM Do we still sign up despite what Schilds doing? Ordinarily I wouldn't have because Schild's definitely been the hookup mastah, but I got in so late on his "Give me a holler" thread that I thought it best to hedge my bets. I will NOT miss out on Warhammer. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 30, 2007, 07:13:12 PM Glee!
Man, I never know what to type when I get to that 'What MMOs have you beta tested section'. The list is so FREAKING LONG. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on May 30, 2007, 07:15:51 PM Of course you must sign up. I worked too hard on the title of this thread for it to be ignored!
When they ask what I've beta tested I just mention a few followed by "LOTS." Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 30, 2007, 07:19:29 PM It said that it was a maximum of 1000 characters, so I opened up Word and made sure I wasn't going over the limit.
At some point in time, I stop and just say 'I have also tested a variety of independant and foreign-made MMOs.' That means I played the beta of the first (and only) Lithtech engine MMO, RUBIES OF EVENTIDE, and made a guy with a bunny hat in Flyff. Amongst other things, of course. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on May 30, 2007, 07:21:17 PM I :heart: bunny hats.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Numtini on May 30, 2007, 07:29:27 PM What ones have you played? All of them. Which is sort of sad when you think about it. So I list a bunch. And I always throw in Underlight. I figure half the people reading the app have never heard of it.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Righ on May 30, 2007, 07:43:42 PM I always put in Clan Lord. Hell, I played it longer than half the PC games with their fancy graphics.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 30, 2007, 07:44:23 PM I :heart: bunny hats. And chicks pooping. What a strange life you lead, Signe. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Lantyssa on May 30, 2007, 08:03:14 PM Cute title. USA, Land of Ice-cream.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Zonk on May 30, 2007, 10:09:08 PM Thanks for the heads up. I cannot tell you how much I iz looking forward to this game. I caught the Barnett cooties, methinks.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Yoshimaru on May 30, 2007, 11:10:39 PM Should we sign up with the same email that was provided for the clan beta? Or does it matter at all? or am I just being paranoid?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: schild on May 30, 2007, 11:19:26 PM Signing up twice makes you look like a desperate punk fanboi.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: FatuousTwat on May 30, 2007, 11:50:21 PM So you signed up 3 times?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: schild on May 30, 2007, 11:50:59 PM So you signed up 3 times? Obviously.Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Wolf on May 30, 2007, 11:52:42 PM wow. The EU site is shitty.
For the lazy people - http://www.war-europe.com/#/subscription/ go here to sign up Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on May 31, 2007, 02:00:44 AM /sigh
Can't sign up for the US beta because according to the Mythic website the UK DOES NOT EXIST. Can't sign up for the EU beta because it means interacting with that PoS GOA website. It literally only took 3 seconds looking at the GOA abomination to start flashbacks of the horror that was interacting with GOA to play DAoC. I guess it speaks well of Mythic and DAoC that I can just stretch to be enough of a DAoC fanboy to be considering joining WAR at launch despite GOA; but GOA beta is right out. Hopefully the Bat Country guild thing will come through. :cry: Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2007, 02:13:08 AM Every single person I know hated GOA back in the DaoC days.
Why they gave them another chance is beyond me. GOA is basically the only thing that can seriously screw up Warhammer. Oh, that and EA. But that GOA WAR site should be more than enough for Mark Jacobs to pick up the phone and tell them "you're fired" in his highest pitched voice possible. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 31, 2007, 02:44:34 AM OK
In this day and age it is horrid how the beta signup is handled for europe. Loginname: No spaces allowed, no upper case letters, no numbers. What the fuck? Nickname: No spaces allowed, no upper case letters, no numbers. What the fuck? Password: Only Numbers, upper and lower case letters allowed, no special characters. They even tell you that your password HAS TO HAVE 2 uppercase letters, two lower case letters and two numbers. Thank you my password would be even more secure than your suggestions but I CANNOT USE FUCKING SPECIAL CHARACTERS! Hell Windows can use login names with whitespace and passwords with special characters for ten years but every fucking MMO out there is too lame to implement something like that. Address: Obviously in europe there are no cities so all you can enter is street name and postcode. After the things before I do not assume that they are intelligent enough to map the postcodes to cities. NO REGISTRATION WITHOUT A DXDIAG FILE! So I cannot register from work and have too wait until I am home this evening. Hint: checkboxes FTW! The registration process alone makes me stabby, if the game proves to be as horrid as the signup for the beta I don't know if want to play. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Der Helm on May 31, 2007, 03:01:41 AM I actually managed to register.
I hate Goa already, never played DaoC with them in charge as far as I remember. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: 5150 on May 31, 2007, 04:35:54 AM I got directed to this site in my UK newsletter email today
www.war-europe.com/betacenter Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Ryuno on May 31, 2007, 05:59:42 AM I really thought GOA would learn from their mistakes and not use flash.
Anyway, managed to signup at least. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on May 31, 2007, 06:05:33 AM The registration process alone makes me stabby, if the game proves to be as horrid as the signup for the beta I don't know if want to play. tbh, the way this is going implies GOA plan to manage WAR in the same piss poor way they managed DAoC. What that means, is that the central game itself will be fine except for endless network connectivity problems and 3 month patch delays, but there will be no in game support, email support will be operated by a team only barely able to get by in languages other than French, and the website you will have to do it through will be exactly as bad as the horror through which you just applied for beta. If Daoc is anything to go by, you also won't be able to change passwords except by emailling support (and even then you couldn't pick your own password), and from time to time someone will get hold of an admin account and start spawning Dragons in Emain (ok, that only happened once). I am Jack's ever growing irritation with the fact that not only have GOA been given this contract, but they've been allowed to present it's public interface in the same godawful way they did for daoc. I swear I remember Sanya assuring everyone that because GOA's web team were bunch of retarded ass monkeys (I'm paraphrasing), they had agreed to use the Mythic web presence for all regions. If WAR does not sell more boxes in Europe than in the United States, it will be solely becuase of Mythic's poor choice of partner. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on May 31, 2007, 06:07:54 AM I really thought GOA would learn from their mistakes and not use flash. What on earth did you base this boundless optimism upon? I really hoped that someone at Mythic was at least paying attention to the shoddy way their poroduct is presented in Europe, I expected GOA to screw it up but have Mythic tell them to stop being bunch of fuck ups. Turns out even I was too damn optimistic. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: HRose on May 31, 2007, 06:18:33 AM /sigh Do like I did and register to the US one with a fake address.Can't sign up for the US beta because according to the Mythic website the UK DOES NOT EXIST. Can't sign up for the EU beta because it means interacting with that PoS GOA website. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Big Gulp on May 31, 2007, 06:31:04 AM Can't sign up for the US beta because according to the Mythic website the UK DOES NOT EXIST. It does exist, we just call it "Airstrip 1". Give that a try. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: vex on May 31, 2007, 07:07:36 AM I swear no one gets the ^H thing any more, it just never works when I try it.
Quote When they ask what I've beta tested I just mention a few followed by "LOTS." Funny, I just listed lots followed by "lots and lots" for MMO experience. Quote Tell us about yourself and why you want to test our game. These are fun questions too. I kind of focused on the "tell us about yourself" part V Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: 5150 on May 31, 2007, 07:20:48 AM I swear no one gets the ^H thing any more, it just never works when I try it. Quote When they ask what I've beta tested I just mention a few followed by "LOTS." Funny, I just listed lots followed by "lots and lots" for MMO experience. Quote Tell us about yourself and why you want to test our game. These are fun questions too. I kind of focused on the "tell us about yourself" part V Fortunately the UK link didnt want any of that shite :-) Although their expansive list of graphics cards didnt include my GeForce 6200 for some reason - I'll probably get in on the grounds I one of the few fools who hate themselves enough to run XP 64 bit!.......only to find out that the game wont run on it and the devs dont care - oh hang on that was Auto Assault, and maybe D&D Online (I tend to forget details of games I get to beta but for one reason or another wont actually run - although I do remember with having the bear minimum spec for Matrix Online beta and it not getting past the splash screen) Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: SnakeCharmer on May 31, 2007, 07:35:49 AM I swear no one gets the ^H thing any more, it just never works when I try it. I had to PM Signe to ask what it meant/means. I still don't get it. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Numtini on May 31, 2007, 07:40:54 AM Quote I still don't get it Suddenly I feel very very old.Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on May 31, 2007, 07:43:27 AM HAHA!^W^W^W^W^Woops^U^U^U^UI'm sorry. I tried.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: SnakeCharmer on May 31, 2007, 07:56:50 AM Quote I still don't get it Suddenly I feel very very old.Hah. I might be older than you? Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: schild on May 31, 2007, 08:02:59 AM (Edit: ^H^H^H is Hunter Hearst Helmsley's evil twin. It was not, however, a gay joke. Wait, wha^H^H^H^H^H why am I still talking?) That post sucked, I'm so sorry. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 31, 2007, 08:28:37 AM I am so goddamn confused.
I don't get the ^H thing either. I thought it was just my web browser barfing at me, but apparently it is intentionally retarded looking. WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: 5150 on May 31, 2007, 09:01:55 AM I believe its [now] used to imply that the preceeding text has been deleted and replaced by the text that follows it (if memory serves the character is backspace)
Think of it as if you were watching the text as it was being typed and then as you get to the characters backspace over the stuff youve already typed and replace it with what follows - so the reader gets to see what you originally typed even though you changed it Sorry if that was a bit clinical and nerdy Do I win the thread? Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: SnakeCharmer on May 31, 2007, 09:21:35 AM I thought it was some new fangled way of saying HAHAHAHAHAHA.
*shrug* Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Numtini on May 31, 2007, 09:35:19 AM You also got used to using it from being on the mainframe and then if you went to a BBS or to one of the other machines you would end up typing ^h by habit if you were a touch typist.
Oh, and if you were on a paper based terminal. There were still a few of those kicking around. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: WayAbvPar on May 31, 2007, 09:36:43 AM I have faith in my close
Mark? Uh...Mr. Jacobs? Sir? Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on May 31, 2007, 09:48:16 AM He's obviously ditched you.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 31, 2007, 10:12:04 AM Yeah, I thought that ^H character looked familiar. I thought that's what it was, but didn't say anything for fear of sounding stupid.
Silly people and your hardcore-speak. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Murgos on May 31, 2007, 10:36:09 AM Meh, ^H is the control code sent by the backspace key. If the program you are using doesn't recognize ^H (ctrl-H) as a command it just prints it to the screen.
TTy, emacs, and X all have to be set individually to recognize ^H as backspace and if one doesn't get set then sometimes you go to era^H^H^H backspace over something and you can't. edit: little experiment for you, click on START and then RUN and then type CMD in the box where it says Open: and press Enter. At the prompt type a bunch of letters and then hold down CTRL and SHIFT (may or may not need shift) and press the H key. Voila backspace. Title: Re: [s]test[/s] Post by: ajax34i on May 31, 2007, 10:44:52 AM Yeah, old terminal emulators such as those used to play muds would display ^H when you made an error and decided to hit the backspace key to delete what you wrote. The current equivalent is
Of course, it's probably not possible to do Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: schild on May 31, 2007, 10:45:46 AM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%5EH
I don't understand how anyone on this website could not know what it is though. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Morfiend on May 31, 2007, 10:45:59 AM This thread officially sucks now.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Zetor on May 31, 2007, 11:55:11 AM The GOA site doesn't even render in firefox or opera. No error message, no 'download flash and get IE, noob' link, nothing.
It's not much better in IE either... they need to hire someone who speaks english, imo. That, and fire whoever designed that site. :P -- Z. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Der Helm on May 31, 2007, 12:54:28 PM The GOA site doesn't even render in firefox or opera. No error message, no 'download flash and get IE, noob' link, nothing. It's not much better in IE either... they need to hire someone who speaks english, imo. That, and fire whoever designed that site. :P -- Z. Worked Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Zedword on May 31, 2007, 01:00:20 PM The GOA site doesn't even render in firefox or opera. No error message, no 'download flash and get IE, noob' link, nothing. It's not much better in IE either... they need to hire someone who speaks english, imo. That, and fire whoever designed that site. :P -- Z. Worked Worked fine for me. Firefox w/ addblock (2.0.0.3 until i restart the browser) --Zedword, can't interrupt the pandora feed Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nonentity on May 31, 2007, 01:51:53 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%5EH I don't understand how anyone on this website could not know what it is though. Must be an age bracket thing. I'm a strapping early-20s man m'self, so while I did get into MUDs and did brief terminal usage, it was only vaguely familiar. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Lantyssa on May 31, 2007, 02:11:37 PM Ah, the days of shiny new amber colored VT100 terminals.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Zonk on May 31, 2007, 02:54:39 PM Must be an age bracket thing. I'm a strapping early-20s man m'self, so while I did get into MUDs and did brief terminal usage, it was only vaguely familiar. I only know it because of my days adminning college networks, etc. Fun fact: hippies force you to make the most TERRIBLE IT HOUSECALLS IMAGINABLE. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on May 31, 2007, 05:43:40 PM The newsletter guff is up.
It doesn't warrant a new thread. Turns out witchhunters are Light tanks with limited range capability. They look fairly cool... http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Empire/Careers/images/WHnt_09.jpg http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/gameInfo/armiesofWAR/Empire/Careers/images/WHnt_07.jpg There's a video about quests in WAR. http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/ It's not that exciting. Nothing in the video is going to surprise anyone here. Sanya^h^h^h^h^h unnamed_community_manager01's grab bag has literally nothing worth reading in it this month, which is a first. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: pants on May 31, 2007, 08:30:18 PM Woo! I'm gonna create a witchhunter and call him VanHelsingg! I'm gonna be cool!
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Zonk on May 31, 2007, 09:00:21 PM None of it is surprising per se, but Public Quests make me a happy, happy little nerd. I don't suppose anyone else is thinking of going Greenskin? Gobbo Shaman calls to me, with the WAUUUUUGGGHHH!!
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: sam, an eggplant on May 31, 2007, 09:14:45 PM Yeah, I always go evil in these games whenever possible. The cool thing about warhammer with its gritty dark fantasy atmosphere is that everybody is evil and out for blood. Here's hoping we all get in!
I was reading up on the game and one of the FAQs said that WHO wouldn't have ingame voicechat. Anyone know why? Frankly I assumed it would be included in all next-gen MMOs. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 01, 2007, 03:44:09 AM I was reading up on the game and one of the FAQs said that WHO wouldn't have ingame voicechat. Anyone know why? Frankly I assumed it would be included in all next-gen MMOs. Because the FAQs are old and pre-EA. Since then EA expressed a view that ingame chat is desirable (probably so that console transfer is made more practical). Also the FAQ is from before VOIP started turning up in other games. I vaguely remember Mark saying their stance has shifted from 'VOIP isn't in the plan' to 'VOIP is something we are considering, but don't have firm plans for'. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: JWIV on June 01, 2007, 07:15:40 AM None of it is surprising per se, but Public Quests make me a happy, happy little nerd. I don't suppose anyone else is thinking of going Greenskin? Gobbo Shaman calls to me, with the WAUUUUUGGGHHH!! I'm thinking about it, since the boyz are best. The art direction on the chaos marauders is sexy enough that I might be tempted to try one. Even if chaos is cheaty. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: sam, an eggplant on June 01, 2007, 08:39:39 AM Whoa, something good might come from EA buying out mythic? The whole world's going topsy-turvy, dudes!
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: FatuousTwat on June 01, 2007, 02:37:14 PM I'm shocked I knew what ^H meant... I guess those years wasted in grade school playing muds and talking in teleconference, playing Fazuull, Kyandria and TLORD are finally paying off!
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 05, 2007, 04:26:19 AM Mark, has posted on the alliance forums to the effect of 'GOA r teh awesome in internal development and beta input'.
Quote Folks, Okay, I've been expecting this kind of thread for quite a while and I've got a rather simple response, no spin, no sugar-coating, etc.: If you're trolling here, have a cookie and go away. OTOH, if you are a European player and think that GOA is treating you now as a 2nd-class citizen, you couldn't be more wrong! Yeap, I said it, and I'll say it again, you're wrong! Did GOA's signup page work as well as ours? Nope, apparently not. Did ours work perfectly, nope. Did GOA, which is spending a ton of money to run WAR for us in Europe, somehow decide to hurt the very customers that it is counting on to make the decision to partner with us on WAR? Of course not. They tried to do things a little differently, with a little more flair (and effort) than we did with our signup page. And, well, it didn't work out as well as they had hoped. It wasn't because of lack of effort on their part. It's not because they are incompetent, it's not because they didn't try, it's simply because things did not work as intended. Over the course of our long-term relationship with GOA, they have always asked us if they could do things a little differently than we do them here, whether it is the art style of the boxes, promotional material, website, etc. They believe that they have a better feeling for European taste/flair/etc. than we do here and you know what, I agree with them which is why we have always extended them that freedom. Sometimes it works out really, really well and sometimes, well, it doesn't work out so well. This is apparently one of those times. We've been in contact with them and we want to see what went wrong and why and then we will talk to them about it. However, to somehow put this into the camp of "2nd class citizenry" is total and complete nonsense. They tried something a little different and it didn't go as well as expected. FYI, as of this morning, they had a lot more signups than we had so it wasn't like it was a total disaster was it (which if you read this thread you might think it is)? I'm truly sorry that GOA had any problems with their signup page just as I'm sorry that we had a few with our own and I apologize for any problems that people had with GOA or with our signup system. Overall though it actually went quite well considering that this game isn't even the second stage of beta yet and this is the first time we've both opened our signup systems at the same time. If you want to bring up old issues with GOA, feel free to bash them or Mythic's decision somewhere else but please don't do it here and now. GOA has committed to us, in the strongest contractual language possible, that they will meet or exceed the kind of service we provide in North America. Based on what I've seen so far, I have no reason to doubt that they will do their best to meet that commitment. It's not 2002 guys, it's 2007 and things are a bit different this time around. Let me tell you something that has already come out of our closed beta testing, the GOA guys have been all over WAR, beating the heck out of it and by far, being our most productive group of beta testers. They spend lots of time playing the game and letting us know what they think about it. If all our beta testers are as helpful as they have been already, we'll be in unbelievable shape by the time we launch. Again, I'm truly sorry for the problems that some of you experienced with the day one signups. Mistakes happen, some things get overlooked, nobody is perfect. However, it wasn't because we at Mythic, especially yours truly, wants or will tolerate any of our worldwide fans to be treated as 2nd class citizens. You can take this to the bank, if I have any inkling that any of our partners are not doing that they need to do to ensure that nobody is a 2nd class-citizen, the least of their worries will be what is said about them in places such as this. I have no intention of letting anyone or any group cause me to break my promise both to GW and to myself about the quality of the game we are creating. And that quality is inextricably bound to the care and effort that goes into the game and the community after WAR launches. Wherever we have a partner, no matter what country or language, that partner will have to keep up with us or even, in my perfect world, exceed us. Now that would make me very happy. Mark Mark, in case you are reading. I don't think anyone doubts that GOA are trying to put together a decent service. I don't think anyone anywhere is trying to even pass comment on what contracts say or what GOA contribute internally - it's not even relevant to the issue. I do think people are seriously worried by the godawful service GOA provided on DAoC, and doubly so since the only public things GOA have done on WAR have made them look as bad as they did on DAoC. This is an issue of service competance, which GOA have no track record of delivering, which can't be enforced by contract, and which GOA have so far shown no sign of even having accepted was below par on daoc. Quote They believe that they have a better feeling for European taste/flair/etc. I suspect the problem here, is that as GOA are a small time operator, they honestly believe all of Europe is like their home market. GOA products and service might or might not look cheap and shoddy in French speaking Europe, I honestly don't feel qualified to say, France is one of the few places in Europe I've spent almost no time, and is one of the few nationalities I've known almost nobody with in guilds or other gaming situations. Anyway, GOA products & websites, certainly do look cheap and shoddy to everyone else. In terns of 'some times it works out well'. The only thing I can ever remember anyone being positive about was a couple of GM run events, I don't know if they went down well in France, everywhere else people just got annoyed that GOA couldn't be bothered to translate NPC text properly. People appreciated the fact that GOA were trying, but again, the execution was clumsy and made the whole excercise a waste of time. Maybe there was some other variation that happened over my three years in daoc that people appreciated GOA for. I certainly don't remember it, which probably tells us how important it was. PS. People in Europe have sufficient taste to dislike clumsy 100% flash websites with no html alternative just as much as Americans. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Ryuno on June 05, 2007, 04:31:59 AM I honestly wonder why they think a flash site is a good idea.
Its horrible. Please give html version like the NA site. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 05, 2007, 04:37:16 AM I'm actually a little surprised that EA policy can allow 100% flash sites in this day and age.
In a more professional organisation it would contravene policy on the grounds both of accessibility, and being bloody stupid. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Sky on June 05, 2007, 07:00:58 AM I'm not eligible. Under mmo experience it says "Limit 1000 characters." I think I've had around 1200 characters. Hey, I'm an altoholic.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: WayAbvPar on June 05, 2007, 09:35:36 AM I'm not eligible. Under mmo experience it says "Limit 1000 characters." I think I've had around 1200 characters. Hey, I'm an altoholic. :-D :-D :-D :-DTitle: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: tazelbain on June 05, 2007, 01:54:22 PM Maybe we need a gaming forum for the elderly.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Montague on June 05, 2007, 02:12:49 PM Maybe we need a gaming forum for the elderly. Get off my damn lawn. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Murgos on June 05, 2007, 06:02:27 PM So? No one liked my ctrl H command prompt experiment/demonstration? I thought it was a pretty good example of what was going on...
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on June 05, 2007, 08:09:28 PM I didn't have to experiment. I played MUDs with a broken backspace key for nearly a year back in the olden days. I'm sure it was wonderful, although the word "EMACS" made me cry for a little while.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Righ on June 07, 2007, 02:40:03 PM I wish my lawn was Emacs, then it would buffer what it cut.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: schild on June 07, 2007, 04:02:28 PM I wish my lawn was alive, then it would eat the neighborhood kids that keep breaking my sprinklers.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Velorath on June 08, 2007, 01:03:53 AM I wish my lawn was alive, then it would eat the neighborhood kids that keep breaking my sprinklers. It's Arizona. Shouldn't you just be growing a cactus or two outside or something rather than trying to keep a lawn alive anyway? Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: gimpyone on June 08, 2007, 01:28:21 AM I wish my lawn was alive, then it would eat the neighborhood kids that keep breaking my sprinklers. It's Arizona. Shouldn't you just be growing a cactus or two outside or something rather than trying to keep a lawn alive anyway? Gotta entertain all the people that fly over some how. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 08, 2007, 03:47:30 AM I wish I had a lawn. Damn overcrowded country.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Merusk on June 08, 2007, 04:04:34 AM I wish my lawn was alive, then it would eat the neighborhood kids that keep breaking my sprinklers. It's Arizona. Shouldn't you just be growing a cactus or two outside or something rather than trying to keep a lawn alive anyway? The best way to make your head explode is to read up on all the, "OMG we don't have enough water for people!" discussions, then go walking around the suburbs that look like they're straight from the east coast/ midwest. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Big Gulp on June 13, 2007, 03:24:54 PM The best way to make your head explode is to read up on all the, "OMG we don't have enough water for people!" discussions, then go walking around the suburbs that look like they're straight from the east coast/ midwest. See, that's one reason I wouldn't mind living in the Southwest. "Oh no, it's not that I'm too lazy to actually keep up on yardwork, I'm just an environmentally conscious citizen!" As it is, I'm over at my parent's house every weekend in the summer mowing their lawn, come fall I'm raking up their leaves. If it were up to my father and I we'd cut down every tree in the yard and astroturf the whole damned lawn. I don't think Mom would be too keen on that, though. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Kludge on June 14, 2007, 08:48:41 AM lmao @ help box Address- "The physical location of your home, apartment, parent's basement, etc."
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 29, 2007, 04:12:47 PM From this month's newsletter....
Beta has started. Apparently buff bots are being stopped by making buffs group only. Hmmmm. Expansions will include more pve zones that don't include pvp. There will be duelling. Mark Jacobs says so. There will be gender specific classes. Aim for a 1v1 pvp battle is that it should last around 30-60 seconds. The game will have realm points - though they won't be called that. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Numtini on June 29, 2007, 04:52:06 PM Quote There will be gender specific classes. Horrible idea. I got SO sick of Valkyries in DAOC and Mithra in FFXI explaining that they were really a guy I wanted to throw up. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Montague on June 29, 2007, 04:56:04 PM From this month's newsletter.... Beta has started. Apparently buff bots are being stopped by making buffs group only. Hmmmm. Expansions will include more pve zones that don't include pvp. There will be duelling. Mark Jacobs says so. There will be gender specific classes. Aim for a 1v1 pvp battle is that it should last around 30-60 seconds. The game will have realm points - though they won't be called that. Grrr, still havent got my newsletter. Anything on the KoTBS? Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Venkman on June 29, 2007, 05:05:20 PM Quote Apparently buff bots are being stopped by making buffs group only. Hmmmm. So were most buffs in DAoC though, no? That was gotten around with the /follow command iirc. I'm sure there's more to stopping buff bots than just this, but I'd be looking for a more comprehensive solution like, say, buffs are are just a natural extension of a class already useful in other ways. We should be well beyond the days when the best thing a class can offer is periodic buffs, and otherwise is told to sit down and stop bothering the adults.Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: KyanMehwulfe on June 29, 2007, 05:11:00 PM Grrr, still havent got my newsletter. Anything on the KoTBS? Yeah they're the featured Career, so info and screens akin to the feature each month: how they fight or are to fight, concept art for low, mid, and high tier, etc.Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on June 29, 2007, 05:57:58 PM Is someone going to submit Bat Country to the Guild Database or don't we do that sort of thing?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 29, 2007, 06:04:46 PM Quote Apparently buff bots are being stopped by making buffs group only. Hmmmm. So were most buffs in DAoC though, no? That was gotten around with the /follow command iirc. I'm sure there's more to stopping buff bots than just this, No, they weren't/aren't. Not sure how the /follow command is relevant - that brings buff bots onto the battlefield were they could be killed by opponents. I'm not sure why that would be necessary under the WAR group-only rule, or the daoc setup. Daoc buffbots sit in the TK, buff you, then you go out and kill stuff. I'm surprised by the answer mind you, I was expecting something more in line with other mmogs that have successfully turned buffing and debuffing into an active, in-combat role, with proper decision making and tactical decisions and whatnot. (http://www.cityofheroes.com) Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on June 30, 2007, 04:13:30 AM Is someone going to submit Bat Country to the Guild Database or don't we do that sort of thing? Possibly schild could submit bat country and set up a sticky thread that would last for about a month with people adding their name to it if they want in. Then, when it is full he could delete it and post a mysterious post saying beta signups are over. He could even put it in the news box. Or have you not gone crazy and are you thinking of a different guild database? Quote Anything on the KoTBS? Tank/Bard. Crazy mustaches. http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/KOBS_06.jpg Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Modern Angel on June 30, 2007, 11:25:47 AM I thought we already put our names into the WAR beta hat?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on June 30, 2007, 12:31:27 PM We did. This is just some guild database on their site.
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Nevermore on July 02, 2007, 06:53:16 AM Apparently buff bots are being stopped by making buffs group only. Hmmmm. Those better be really short duration buffs or that'll do absolutely nothing to stop botting. CoX might do buffs 100x better than DAoC did and they have empathy bots in the pvp zones throwing fortitudes and clear minds around. Guild Wars has the best buffing system, imo. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Azazel on July 02, 2007, 10:24:49 AM Quote There will be gender specific classes. Horrible idea. I got SO sick of Valkyries in DAOC and Mithra in FFXI explaining that they were really a guy I wanted to throw up. Witch Elves. (http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkelves/miniature-gallery/images/witch-elves_large.gif) Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Montague on July 02, 2007, 10:53:02 AM Quote Anything on the KoTBS? Tank/Bard. Crazy mustaches. http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/careers/KOBS_06.jpg Quite possibly the most ridiculous character concept I've seen yet. King: "Sir Foozle, I would like you to take a detachment of knights and go forth and dispatch our foes!" Sir Foozle: "I can't do that sir..." King: "What??" Sir Foozle: "I'm sorry sir, you see we knights are commanders. We are utterly incapable of defeating any foe by ourselves. I will of course be happy to raise a band of peasants against your enemies, sire!" King: "Peasants?" Sir Foozle: "Yes, sire! You see Peasants do not wear any armor. Thus by the laws of our realm, they must automagically be the most fearsome and fierce fighters, downing any foe with a single blow." King: "Really? Well if the Peasants are so fierce why do I need you?" Sir Foozle: "Ah, well you see your majesty, I make the peasants even more dangerous! I also protect the peasants by making them such avatars of destruction that the enemy will be compelled to try to slay me first. Hence why I wear such ridiculously heavy armor." King: "Well, couldn't we just put the armor on the peasants?" Sir Foozle: "Ah, no sire 'fraid not. If the peasants were allowed to don heavy armor they would suddenly lose all their damage dealing ability and they would be much like a mob of hookers swinging their purses. 'Tis the law of our realm." King: "This is all so terribly confusing. How exactly do you help the peasants?" Sir Foozle: "By twisting sire. I dance like this *does the twist* while periodically launching a totally ineffective blow against our foe, so that I may have the energy to twist more! King: *facepalm* "The world has gone mad..." Sir Foozle: "No sire, this all makes perfect sense once you speak with the bishop of Our Lady Of Perpetual Class Balance church!" Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on July 02, 2007, 11:04:40 AM What?
You're right, I cannot think of any heroes from cinema or literature who, through skillful leadership and training, were able to improve the abilities of their comrades, or raise a peasant army, as well as being decent fighters themselves. Also it's a completely new gameplay concept. There have never been RPG characters who can tank and chant auras. Someone in the back just muttered something that sounded a bit like 'Paladin', pfft, what is the world coming to, people going about making up words. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Montague on July 02, 2007, 11:19:10 AM What? You're right, I cannot think of any heroes from cinema or literature who, through skillful leadership and training, were able to improve the abilities of their comrades, as well as being decent fighters themselves. Also it's a completely new gameplay concept. There have never been RPG characters who can tank and chant auras. Someone in the back just muttered something that sounded a bit like 'Paladin', pfft, what is the world coming to, people going about making up words. I agree, I cannot think of any heroes from cinema or literature who improved the abilities of their comrades slightly by performing repetitive actions because they were ineffective in all other aspects of combat. Just because it's been done before in a different form makes it no less ridiculous. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on July 02, 2007, 11:49:52 AM The repetitive thing has nothing to do with any information you have about this class, it's just your assumption based on the fact that this is a dikumud. That doesn't make it wrong, but it has nothing to do with this class specifically. Or should I be reading between the lines that DAoC pally 'twisting' touched you in a bad place (despite the fact that it was a bug left in at "the community"'s insistence)?
Also, where do you get the 'KotBS won't be effective in combat' thing from? It might be true, I'm not in beta, I have no idea, but it doesn't say that anywhere, it says the exact opposite. You appear to just be engaging in the finest traditions of intarweb making-shit-up. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: AngryGumball on July 02, 2007, 12:11:47 PM meh, I'm kinda bummed my own lazy fault.
I was on the Warhammer newletter list since last August 06, somewhere around Febuary I stopped receiving the newsletters, now I read somewhere that you get a little extra bump to getting into beta if you were on the newsletter, so I figured I'd write a letter to one of their CSRs before I applied to beta, then I never did it then I heard 200k applied then I realized wouldn't mean squat, so I simply didn't apply to beta. *plays sadness song :P* I was at Comic-Con 2006, I could not believe how good WAR was playing back then how smoothe it was playing. Mrs. Weathers was showing me the game while talking about it as I quizzed her about UO Gunk, while someone else was playing WAR she was confused on why there was some kind of higher level ORC running around stomping on people and how it had to been someone back in Fairfax that had logged on, was fun to see that both the person stomping around at higher level and the confusion on Mrs. Weathers as to why they were there. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Signe on July 02, 2007, 12:24:58 PM Wat u say?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Montague on July 02, 2007, 12:49:30 PM The repetitive thing has nothing to do with any information you have about this class, it's just your assumption based on the fact that this is a dikumud. That doesn't make it wrong, but it has nothing to do with this class specifically. Or should I be reading between the lines that DAoC pally 'twisting' touched you in a bad place (despite the fact that it was a bug left in at "the community"'s insistence)? Also, where do you get the 'KotBS won't be effective in combat' thing from? It might be true, I'm not in beta, I have no idea, but it doesn't say that anywhere, it says the exact opposite. You appear to just be engaging in the finest traditions of intarweb making-shit-up. You could say I have a mild annoyance with the twisting concept. As for making shit up we'll see when either of us get in beta or at release. My pessimism stems from the apparent requirement for a diku MMO that the knight/paladin class must always spend his time doing something other than killing the enemy in order to be effective. If the Knight class IS an effective combatant at release you can be sure he will be nerfed into the ground in short order. And no, I'm not jaded at all. Edit - Signe that avatar is udderly disturbing. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: eldaec on July 02, 2007, 01:10:43 PM All classes in WAR appear to be deisgned with a primary/secondary role. When everything is a hybrid, then nobody is viewed as ineffective in relative terms (at least not specifically because of the hybrid 'discount' on primary role effectiveness).
As well as tanking, tanks provide buffs (human, Chaos), debuffs (Dwarf, probably D Elf), or crowd control (Orc, probably H Elf). Another example, healers have buff/debuff (dwarf, chaos), nukes (orc, probably H Elf), or melee (Human, probably D Elf). and so on... Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Fordel on July 02, 2007, 06:54:51 PM When I read the KotBS description, all I can think of is DaoC Paladin 2.0.
Twisting sucks, a lot. Down with twisting. :x Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Trippy on July 02, 2007, 06:57:11 PM What's "twisting" in the DAoC context? I know what it is for EQ since a Bard was my main. Is it the same sort of thing?
Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Big Gulp on July 02, 2007, 07:03:06 PM What's "twisting" in the DAoC context? I know what it is for EQ since a Bard was my main. Is it the same sort of thing? Twisting did have it's upside, though. It was the only thing keeping me from dropping dead of boredom in EQ. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Fordel on July 02, 2007, 07:05:04 PM Rapidly changing aura's to keep all the effects up at the same time, usually in a sequenced order.
Paladins, Bards and Minstrels were all capable of twisting. Bards and Minstrels got to change instruments while twisting, but it wasn't "required" outside of rare circumstances, Paladins pretty much had to twist or they sucked even more then normal in PvP. You either purchased a Nostromo pad or developed carpel tunnel. :-( If they actually put twisting in WAR, that's basically a class I won't be playing. Much hate for twisting. Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Murgos on July 02, 2007, 07:18:23 PM What's "twisting" in the DAoC context? I know what it is for EQ since a Bard was my main. Is it the same sort of thing? Twisting did have it's upside, though. It was the only thing keeping me from dropping dead of boredom in EQ. I could only ever play tank in EQ. Everything else bored me to tears. Tank at least let you run around and control the pace a bit as you pulled and dealt with adds. Even then if you were someplace you were comfortable with it only got as good as "Hit A and go make a sandwich." Title: Re: [WAR] Warhammer Online Beta Europeon^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmericone Sign up Page Post by: Stephen Zepp on July 03, 2007, 08:56:20 AM Quote Tank at least let you run around and control the pace a bit as you pulled That made me both laugh and cry at the same time. Laugh because for the first 6+ expansions, tanks that thought they should pull regularly got the party wiped (I was a monk btw), and for that second half of the expansions, it made be cry because SoE bowed down and took away (ok, so it was self-created, but still) a unique class role for bards/monks and let anyone be able to successfully break up a camp into 2-3 npcs. I'm completely ignoring the fact here that pulling was a successful tactic in the first place, as for the most part it certainly breaks immersion, etc, etc. |