f13.net

Any one buying? I think I will pick up the PC version, although I am tempted to get one for my Xbox also, just so I can see what its like playing KB&M to Gamepad.

Wait, do I need to have Vista to play against Xbox people?

Getting the 360 one.

Yes, you need Vista to play Shadowrun. Any of it. Won't run in XP.

Can we say "Sent to die at retail?"

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I cant even comprehend that.

Fuckheads.

I think it's brilliant. The game costs $15 less than the 360 version.

But you need a bleeding edge OS.

That's just awesome in every way. Heh.

How many hardcore gamers do you know who run Vista? Personally, I know 1. I think its a crap strategy.

Hey...why aren't we moving any copies of these new games?

Who cares that a shitload of old games, hardware and peripherals don't run under Vista. NEW GAMES!

Maybe for dx10 only games. Maybe. SP1, bitches.

Grar Snarl Hate!!

So many things wrong with this game. So. Many. Things. I don't get fanboi-angry about pretty much anything (well ... maybe the NGE for about a week), but this game just pisses me off on so many levels.

(no sarcasm here, honest) Schild, I hope you can explain this for me. I played through a whole bunch of the Beta, and it really was (imho) CS with elves. Some of the evolved tactics were interesting, and I liked their map design ... but how is this worth $50/$60?

I think they are hoping to sell it to the 360 crowd more than the PC crowd. I mean, they have to be right? Right?

Of course.

I'll wait for you to tell me if its worth the cash on the 360.

I'll need people to play with, Halo 3 is evil.

I really do NOT want to be on the gamepad side in a game that is KB&M vs Gamepad. But I also dont want to use Vista yet. Way to go MS.

Well, if you're shelling out the cash and shit to run the game on fucking Vista,and are willing to deal with the bullshit, don't you sort of deserve the KB+M advantage?  :-P

I can't comprehend the thought process behind this game.

"Hey guys, let's develop a game with a license that has a cult following behind it, but we'll completely dash that following's hopes by turning it into an FPS!"

"Yeah, and we could make it only multiplayer!  No one plays single player games anymore!"

"But you know, we can't make the market for the PC version too broad, lets limit it to 5% of the installed base of PC gamers!"

"Yay!"

The reason why Shadowrun on the PC is DX 10-only is because Microsoft wants people to upgrade to Vista. That is where they make their money.

I haven't been keeping up with the game but back during E3 they had things tweaked with auto-aim and crap like that so that the Xbox 360 gamepad people actually were beating the PC players more times than not.

You lie. They took out mouse sensitivity on the PC version. Balancing for the win!

Oh okay, I stand corrected.

As in, it was a fixed rating which could not be changed?

Alright. I picked this up along with Forza 2 yesterday.

Schild, I'll play with you.

Other people need to get this too, so I am motivated to sit at my 360 and play.

The way I understood it was, 360 users get aim-assist, and PC users get pixel-perfect shot accuracy. The balance, as you say, is that PC users 'can't' swivel and turn faster than their console cousins. Hence, no mouse sensitivity.

Damnit, the runners are such pansies too. Argent would have had half of one of these teams for breakfast, and then picked his teeth with the artifact.

Take off the fucking rosey glasses before I Pow! Right in the Kisser!

Be thankful they didn't try for mmo. "Hey, look at WoW!"

So, how is it?

I'm debating between picking it up now or waiting for the inevitable price drop.

:D Wouldn't be the first time I've been hit over Shadowrun. I know I'm a giant dork about this crap. I'm just very invested in the game world, and still young enough to get my hackles raised about such things. I look forward to a future of cynical apathy.

As a note, Microsoft sent me a copy in the mail.

... a copy for Vista. An OS I don't have. And a version that doesn't actually work (http://pc.ign.com/articles/793/793027p1.html). Kuality.

Well.

I still haven't opened mine. Trying to finish Atelier Iris 3 for a review.

On the fence though since I heard after-game stats never made it into the game. I mean, whut?

Edit: Scratch that. I don't care that much about stats. I'll open it tonight and brush up my skills for an hour or so in bot matches. Probably try to get some online in this weekend.

WTFZORS

That is just fucking stupid. "Balance" be damned - lern2PC, nubs.

Wow.




Fuck Vista.

Why even release the PC version. It seems more than doomed. It like they are trying to get horrible word of mouth from people who buy it.

This is what I'm fricking saying. They've killed FASA for sucking so badly, and they're never going to make another SR game now because this has been such a shit-vortex. For the love of all that is holy, why did they do this?

Hrm, I was totally making a joke by saying it doesn't have mouse sensitivity. Must get in the habit of colouring things.

The mouse sensitivity thing may be a bit overstated, but from the mouse/keyboard players POV they *are* 'gimped' to fight 'fair' against 360 players. Eg, the turn speed on your mans is mighty slow compared to CS.

Zonk, if it was called Splorgenborgen, you probably would have liked it.

"Holy Crap, Splorgenborgen is CS + Magic.

As such, I'm just not feeling the hate.

Edit: Also, obviously not made for PC Gamers. The only thing I can see is that you really wanted it to be made for PC gamers and that's raping your sensibilities a bit.

Ok, how about the game? Is it crap? I heard that the studio that made it was already disbanded, so we can forget about future updates. Can anyone comfirm this? A pure multiplayer game without any further balancing and/or updates doesn't sound too good.

I completely and totally agree. If they had come up with a new IP, say, or twisted anything else into this shape, I would have nothing else to say about this game other than 'meh'. Basically, I've taken it upon myself to be 'that guy' about this game. I completely understand this is irrational, and so (I hope) I'm trying not to be too assy about it. The reason is simple: it is tremendously disappointing to me that they chose to squander such a remarkable IP on this game.

I actually think it's a pretty good game on the 360, so I wouldn't say I 'really wanted it to be for PC' ... I just don't understand why the released it on that platform. :)


... I find it vaguely amusing that you're named Wolf. Character from an old Shadowrun novel. To answer your questions: FASA studios has been disbanded, for sucking too hard to exist. I don't know if another team is going to do continued balancing/updates. My impression is that the members of the team have largely been moved into other parts of Microsoft Games Studio. Some of the honchos saw their heads roll, I believe.

As for quality: My view is that if you like console shooters, there are several better options out there besides Shadowrun. If you're looking for something distinctly *different*, that is something you can find here. Playing a magic-heavy character empasizing mobility and support is unlike almost any other multiplayer FPS experience I've had. Teleporting through walls to reach a downed character, Rezzing them while fighting off his killers, dropping a Tree of Life to keep him alive, and then moving off to repeat the process ... it beats the pants off of the medic in Team Fortress.

That said, it's just something that could hold my interest long-term. I'm going to be playing the shit out of Halo 3 and Team Fortress 2 later this year, and I have no interest in getting involved in an online FPS at the moment.

Yeah... it's also a somewhat common animal...

Before this, there hadn't been a Shadowrun game in the 11 years since the Sega CD game.  We're pretty much lucky to have even gotten this.

Everything you say is now suspect.

I should have a big * hanging over my head about stuff like this. I should point out I also played Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End for the Xbox 360 this past week. It's ... not very good, by the by.

When you review games as part of your job, you don't always get to play what you want. : /

I think Halo is an 'okay' shooter for the console. I still like PC FPS titles better (HL2 may be one of my favorite games), but I've grown to accept that console shooters have a place in the world too.

Ah, I read the wrong thing in there.  I didn't take "playing the shit out of" as "playing for work".  I get your point.  There are, however, better console shooters than Halo 2, especially if you consider crossplatform things like F.E.A.R. as well.  Then again, we are arguing opinions, so WHEEEEE!

Right. :)

Yeah, it's ... blah. It's weird, because I basically get to pick and choose what I review; Microsoft sending me a game is a rarity. My super-seekrit insider access to videogames for review is the GameFly service.

Next week I'm doing POTC, and then Odin Sphere is the week after that. Won't be as good as schild's, though. I can't say 'fuck' on Slashdot.

Why are you reviewing bad games on Slashdot?

Do you really need to have a good relationship with Buena Vista?

I mean, really?

Also, trust me when I say, don't review games you aren't sent. It's a waste of your time and companies don't deserve otherwise. (Unless it's to inform people something is WORTH buying - people don't need to be told Pirates 3 isn't worth buying). I tend to cover niche stuff and freebies. it's just the way to handle it.

Sounds like I am giving this one a pass.

To sum:

Vista Only
Gimped PC controls
Maybe no patches

I'm sure it'll sell in the tens.

My leaning worked, wonder of wonders. Shadowrun on the 360 in-hand. We can now 'get our elves on'.

I played a little bit last night, did some bot matches.

Fuck - for the bot matches you do after the training missions, you can select one of five difficulty levels (training, novice, veteran, and two more above that).

Even on Vet level, I was getting stomped. These bots were teleporting through walls, zapping me, destroying my corpse so I couldn't rez - they were good.

I can't imagine how good the bots are higher then that.

It's fun, though. I don't think I could see myself playing it online and getting all into it, but playing a match with some people I know from here or whatever would be fun.

A shame for Shadowrun, but hopefully a good thing for us XP Gamers if the "Vista-Only" thing takes it in the arse. MS might not care, but other development houses who want to sell their fucking games might take notice. Crytek, I'm looking at you.

Not going to happen.  Microsoft isn't going to port DX10 to XP, not only because it doesn't make financial sense, but because they can't due to fundamental OS architecture issues.  If you're a dedicated gamer sooner or later you're going to have to go to Vista.  That's just how it is.

We do not have to like it. And, We do not have to be eager.

My copy of Shadowrun does not connect to the net. It is a PROBLEM.

The local EB said a lot of customers could not find or start games people could join while their Lost Planet still works. They said they'd give full refund for defectiveness. So if you're having this problem, do youself a favor and call the local store.

While it's true they they couldn't do a straight "port" of DX10 to WinXP they could rewrite those parts that are incompatible but have choosen not to for reason I mentioned earlier. It's the same reasoning that had them take Halo 2, an Xbox DirectX 8 game, and made it Vista-only, even though they know it's only going to get them a small faction of the sales they otherwise would've gotten.

No, I'm talking about 3rd-party devs (you know, the ones who are actually trying to sell us their software, and not copies of Vista) deciding to either offer games in dual-compat mode (like Lost Planet). Sure, Vista will eventually take over, but for the time being it makes financial sense for software houses to either stick with DX9 or dual-compat.

MS can afford to take losses on game software in order to sell us Vista. I'm not sure it's in EA/Ubi/etc's best interests to want to eat sales losses in order to help MS sell copies of their latest OS though. It's not exactly taking a bullet for the team, after all.

Apparently a 19 year-old kid has figured out how to get DX10 stuff to run on Windows XP:

http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/

I'm not entirely surprised.  Claiming that you can't send certain command strings to a hardware device because of OS architecture seemed a little circumspect.

The steam survey (http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html) now has a DirectX 10 section to show those who have both Vista and a DX10 video card.

Percentage of steam users who can play a DX10 game - 1.24%

You don't need a DX10 video card to play Shadowrun (it's a DX9 game) so the percentage of Steam users that can play it is somewhere closer to 5%.

http://forums.shadowrun.com/forums/thread/53910.aspx

The reviews are not being kind.  Gamespot gave it a 6.9 if memory serves, which seems about right from what I'm hearing.  Apparently climbing animations aren't even in the game yet, so your character just sort of glides up ladders while still looking like they're just standing there.  I suppose this makes the lack of a single player campaign and the inability to change your character's appearance understandable; this was a rush job.

Not that I have Vista or plan to upgrade anytime soon just to play Shadowrun but can't you adjust mouse sensitivity for the whole system to get around it? My Logitech mouse came with neat software that allows me to set resolution, sensitivity and a lot of other parameters that carry over to anything/everything since it adjusts something driver-side.

Here is my take on 'ShadowQuakeUnrealWithElves'

Step One: Get really excited about a Shadowrun cRPG.
Step Two: Get really disgusted because it's not a cRPG, but rather an online only shooter.
Step Three: Ponder the stupidity/idiocy/insanity/Marketdriodism of failing to make an RPG out of an RPG license.
Step Three point Five: Yes, I may have paid more attention of it was Froobles Online instead of 'Shadowrun'. 'Shadowrun', unfortunately, set a baseline of expectation, which they utterly failed to meet.
Step Four: Laugh because it is 'Vista only' and ignore it completely.

Resume waiting for Bioshock and the Medieval 2 expansion, whenever they are coming out.

Bioshock is also going to suck - Recent previews suggest a rather lame straightforward FPS with consoleitis out the ass.

I suspect I'll be doing much crying in the future.

Really? I thought recent previews were doing a decent job of showing that it wasn't going to be a straighforward FPS.

Previews, or interviews with Ken Levine?  If you watch any of the videos, it looks like a possible Might & Magic or Oblivion, only without the arr pee gee.  I always thought that it would be, at best, Thief: Deadly Shadows with guns/magic.  Maybe I won't be disappointed with these low expectations.

The Adam and modification stuff gives you 'powers' which are cool, but not exactly new.  The enemy AI is also a crowning achievement to mediocrity.  Further, the game is on rails enormously, making it pretty much a run and gun thing.

The latest PC Gamer or Zone took a big dump over it - but sneakily it was kinda 'between the lines'.  'Hey, this game looks great and zowie the powers are cool, but who really gives a fuck because you're going to complete it and never go back.'

I'll quote some of the more interesting passages when I get home.

Yes, I care about the action in Bioshock.

About as much as I gave a shit in Deus Ex and System Shock 1 & 2. Which is to say - Zero.

It's like saying Fatal Frame is an On Rails Photgraphy Experiment.

It was only 3 sentences and the meaning of your entire post was lost on me.

What ?

The best FPS games I've ever played that weren't competitive had some zowie cool powers but the action was dull, practically were on rails (even though there were multiple sets of rails) and it was all completely run and gun.

I'm saying, how is that taking a shit on it?

TALK ABOUT THE STORY, KNOBBLER. WHAT DO THEY SAY ABOUT THAT?

Story ?  Again, from what I read, there isn't one.

Big undersea place where people have driven themselves bugshit trying to setup a wondrous utopia that turns into dante's hell.  3 'bosses' that represent geniuses of the place.  Kill, escape.

I don't think you're going to find Planescape anywhere near this poop.

I don't think you're gonna find Deus Ex or SS1 or 2;  and if you're really saying that those games were run and gun without any subtlety, well, I kinda have to disagree on it.  I could reinstall all 2 outta the 3 of them and have a different play experience.  I get the feeling that's so not going to happen with Bioshock.  The huge choices you'll have is fire or ice gene mods.

Sigh.

Hey, cheer up.  You could be right and I could be wrong.  And then we'd both be happy !

I'm going to cry.

First Supreme Commander, and not this.

I hate every single one of you console idiots that kept buying FPS games on a console. FPS requires K+M. I hope you die in a power cord fire or get killed by flying remote for fagging it up for the rest of us.

What FPS's have been "fagged up" by console users?

Brick Poncho's Chaps series was, at one point, a game about shooting others in a manly, heterosexual fashion

Amen. Every console jockey means less work on the port to PC. Nothing drives me crazy faster than a shitty fucking interface that is obviously tarded down for consoles. Now, if they would only let me play against the thumb-aiming retards...

I clean my controllers with your tears.

Yeah, Supreme Commander totally blew.

However, just to depress you further, consider this :  All the Game Innovations are now done.  We're at the end.  All you're going to see from now on is graphical and interface updates to the same old shit.

Once again, Happy To be Wrong.

This is why HD is nice.  Groundhog day is a lot better when it's shiny.

You're not going to crush my hopes for Bioshock.  I won't let you  :-D  If they nail the plot and the atmosphere, the rest is all gravy. Those are what made SS2 for me. 

Thief and Hitman for me.

You can argue, of course.  But I'm not listening.  :D

You say that, I think this:

(http://www.thenonentity.com/meteors.jpg)

I was getting a bad feeling from the PC Gamer article, too. Not quite so bad as our Scot, but not as tingly as I felt watching the earlier footage. Maybe it was just the 360 shots, but the graphics looked a lot worse. I can't see the 360 development helping the game much.

But I can hardly blame Irrational after the weak sales of their FUCKING WICKED games. What's up with that, anyway? So...they make a good business decision and go to consoles. For money, not a better gaming experience, kids.

Anyway. The atmosphere looks pretty good, still. The gameplay has me a bit worried, but I'll reserve judgement until I'm not making assumptions from some screenshots and an interview ;)

At least it's not coming out in 2009. Godammit.

Well, there's always....

*casts about for something to look forward to*

Um. Dragon Age? Is Bioware still making that? Yeah. Dragon Age is going to rock. So neener neener consolepeoples.

I hate consoleitis, but Gears of War was Pure Fucking Manna.

Also, sniper headshots. Best Ever.

Gears is awesome for a console FPS.  It would solve some annoying things if it had been developed for PC.

DeusEx2

It would have been 100 times better with top of the line PC gaming rig and K+M... so would KoTOR 1&2 and Jade Empire.

On  a Side Note,

I am completely convinced that the reason that Unreal Tournament 3 has not been shipped yet is because of the fucking console ports being made.

And that it will be less of a fucking awesome game because of the fucking consoles.

Add in a little screw you to Mark Rein for not being so talkative to the actual players of the game instead of trying to goose up the press as much.

You could be right.  I avoided it like the fucking plague.

KoToR 1 & 2 and Jade Empire would have been no better if developed exclusively for the PC, because they didn't do anything special that you need a keyboard and mouse for. The graphics would have been higher resolution and that's it. The underlying engine, the same engine they've used since Neverwinter Nights, wasn't designed as a full 3D engine, and wasn't that great when developed purely for the PC, as when it was used in Neverwinter Nights. While you may have a number of other titles that would prove your point, those 3 do not prove your point at all.

Haemish beat me to it.

Also, Gears works perfectly fine on the 360 as a shooter, not just a console shooter, because with most weapons your aim is not perfectly precise.

By Design. Meaning - even with a KB + Mouse, you wouldn't have much (if any) aiming advantage. I think it really adds to the frenetic atmosphere of the game.

KotOR and JE are not shooters where precise aiming is required. One is a pseudo-turned-based game ala BG2, the other is a pseudo-fighter and fighting games are always better with gamepads. Bad examples. Of course, we could talk about higher poly models, better texturing and effects, larger areas, less loading, more intricate AI...the limitations of consoles only start with the interface.

GoW looks cool, but I refuse to ever play a shooter with thumbsticks. It's a horrid control device for precise applications, needs cheats to help out aiming, and uses the clumsiest of manual digits while relegating the majority of precise digits to holding it. Sorry, didn't mean to rant on consoles here, but the truth is what it is.

I am mostly bothered by how I have to duck behind a low obstacle before I can hop over it.  Also, I don't get the inability to jump in a FPS... TPS whatever.  Person Shooter.  I blame the lack of jumping on the lack of buttons on the 360 controller, which means Gears has CONSOLITIS.

Only seeing aiming when looking at a FPS, I don't get that either, it's like when you say K+M you just mean the M.  I miss the K in a lot of consolized games.

The 'duck before hurdle' is lame, but I just justify the no jump button by thinking that there is no way someone could wear all that armour and be able to jump. :D

Bah, those fuckers are huge, they could jump like the Hulk if they wanted.  They could at least just step over some of those barricades.

I don't use many keys when playing shooters.... WASD, ctrl, alt, possibly shift, sometimes 2-6 other keys. I don't usually have a "not enough buttons" problem with console shooters, personally.

Then you're playing the wrong shooters ;)

I think the minimum these days includes a separate reload, jump and a use key.  There's also squad-control buttons at times.  In any case, can you give me a reason for jumping to be excluded from Gears that does not involve CONSOLITIS?

I liked the lack of jumping, if only because it eliminated having otherwise great gritty visuals destroyed by the silliness of bunny-hopping retards.  I could have dealt with jumping if it imposed something of a movement penalty/feeling of shifting a lot of mass around like the rest of the game's movement (needing to coil and leap, then recover afterwards - not unrealistic given the tons of gear each guy was toting), though.

I'll buy a new console and relegate my PC to the status of an intarweb-reading box before I let some dipshit blackmail me into upgrading just to play some dumbass game.  Or PC games in general.  I call your bluff, gaming industry.  Make all PC games require Vista and I just won't bother playing PC games.

You're not getting your ransom money, so go ahead and kill the bitch.

We will see what your tune is when Mark Jacobs trots out Vista-only Ultima Online.

I'll upgrade for a few games. Well, probably dual-boot if drivers still aren't kosher by then. Problem is, there's no reason right now. Two dx10 games (Company of Heroes and Call of Juarez) and a demo (Lost Planet). And I think those are available in dx9 versions, too.

But I agree with the principle of not buying games that MS made Vista-only "just 'cause". That's fucking awful and I hope the sales tank.

Saw this game on the shelf today and noticed that it had a little "Play for one month FREE" logo at the bottom... so I guess you need to subscribe to Live to play it too...?

Make the game more tactical? Bunnyhopping would have been entirely out of place in the game? Has jumping even been an option in a Rainbow Six game, or Operation: Flashpoint (among others)?

Also, I just spammed the A button when I want to jump over a barricade

A) Anything that prevents bunny hoppers is an unmitigated blessing.

B) If this is consolitis, I say bring it on bitches.  Jumping to console gaming has already allowed me to play better games and to avoid upgrading my computer.  My PC already does everything I want it to do, any further upgrades would be simply for gaming.  Thankfully I've left that treadmill.

I am not, if you look back, complaining about the jumping so much as I am complaining about having to crouch to jump over a barricade.  So, jumping is actually in Gears but it is implemented badly and my overuse of the word CONSOLITIS continues.  If I was not able to hop over a barricade at all, I might not be bothered by it.  Many games do not have jumping.

I would also be wary of using Rainbow Six as a comparison for anything, unless you are restricting the discussion to military-style shooters.  Because it kinda sucks.

I don't want to give the impression that I am advocating bunnyhoppers.  Not.  At.  All.  I am advocating a jump-over-barrricade button, something that does not slow down my charge.  It's a control change rather than a game design change.

But the only thing there is in Gears to jump over are the barricades.  Seems like a silly thing to be frustrated over.

You can certainly have useful jumping without bunny hoppers. This is the source of my major gripe about the battlefield franchise, in fact.

In BF1942, if you saw a bunny-hopper, you just dove prone and fired in controlled bursts. Dead bunnyhopper. It was fucking splendified.

In BF2, bunnyhopping almost ruins the game. They patch out bunnyhopping and dolphin-diving takes its place.

People are broken, film at 11.

It is a silly thing.  I did not intend to manufacture a tirade over it and now I sound like a kook.  There are many better examples of consolitis found in worse games.

Also, Warhammer 40,000: Fire Warrior. Unplayably consolified. I'm sure it would have been no HL2, but as a longtime Warhammer playing guy I had been looking forward to a 40k FPS that wasn't a mod ending up unfinished or cancelled,

That's what you get for ruining the Shadowrun name. (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819834p1.html)