f13.net forums - Gears of War not to be released in germany *sigh*

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April 27, 2024, 03:22:04 AM

we're back, baby

Although you must concede that Hobbit porn is dangerous.

The forum gods could not have timed that page break better. Genius.

Trippy works in mysterious ways.

Well there was a school shooting last week. An 18 year old pupil, armed with two pump-action shotguns and severeal self-made explosives went to his school and shot 12 people mined the school with the explosives and killed himself when the SWAT team went in to get him.

That man was a complete gun nut. There are pictures on the internet showing him in dark clothes, trenchcoat and posing with several firearms. He was very active on several of the more partisan gun sites, he was discussing recipies for several explosives. He even published his suicide letter on the internet and not even on the official World of Warcraft boards have I found anything more crazy than what he wrote.

This was a person who should be in closed therapy. He was actively discussing both suicide and the amok run in detail on the internet and in discussions with friends, teachers and his relatives for months if not for years, he was showing signs of extreme paranoia, persecition mania and shizophrenia.

He had several firearms including two pump action shotguns, a glock, several hunting rifles etc. which he bought on the internet. That alone should not have been possible in germany because we have very strict gun laws and he should not have been able to own any of the guns.

So in short:

The man was most probably very disturbed and crazy and should have been treated in a mental hospital
He had the ability to buy guns over the internet although that should be impossible and he was not allowed to own guns
Both parents, relatives, teachers and friends had known about his delusions and his plans for a killing beforehand and did nothing because "they thought he was joking"

A clear case one should think and his mental condition should be explanation enough of why he did such a despicable act.

But he was also a gamer. He played counterstrike and other first person shooters.

So the only thing that tv, newspapers and radio programmes were discussing last week was whether killer games (the term coined for fps in germany) made him do it. Politicians are discussing a complete ban on all "killer games" and brutal movies because they think that they negatively influence the youth (without knowing what they mean when they mention killer games). Televission stations (even public television which usually is rather neutral and well informed) are doing specials on the "violent youth culture" and the bad influence of "brutal movies and killer games", talk shows are held where people are discussing whether killer games are bad for our youth, in that talk shows nobody has invited any guest that might say something positive on the subject.

So the man had access to firearms, which he shouldn't have, he was crazy and people ignored it but nobody is discussing how it can be possible for him to own guns or why everybody and his dog ignored his fragile condition. All they talk about is the bad influence of computer games. movies and the internet on today's youth.

That is the explanation as to why we have such laws. Most people think that violent movies, violent videogames and pornographic material can actually influence kids or adolescents and make them violent psychopaths that kill everything in sight. While I agree with the notion that games like gears of war or doom 3 is not suitable for kids the legislation concerning such media is completely over the top because it not only stops children from getting and owning those things but also adults.

If a game is not rated then no big retailer will order it because they would only be able to offer it under the counter. Realistically the retailer would need a seperate "adults only" department with a seperate entrance and seperate sales personnel, where minors don't have access. Unrated material may not be made accessible to minors in any form so if I buy something and on my way to the counter a minor can see the cover of the movie or game it would already be illegal.

Mail order is not possible because sending unrated material via mail is also not allowed a minor might steal it from your mailbox or something, so the only way to get unrated material is by breaking the law (ordering it from abroad) or buying it in speciality stores and they are operating in a gray area because the only way to be strictly legal would be to have a seperate "adults only" part of the store, where minors don't have access. german courts have ruled nearly every age verification method as being unsuitable because you still cannot guarantee that a minor might get access to the unrated material (either by faking, stealinmg your account data or simply stealing it from your mailbox). I can verify that I am adult by I cannot guarantee that no minor has access to my mail or my online download account.

So effectively by restricting access to minors in that strict form most adults lose access to that media also

"A kid could break into the mailbox" is one of the most inane reason for a law I ever heard. So it would be my problem if my neighbours kid is a thief? The law has to provide for that possibility? Guess I shouldn't have alcohol in my cupboard either. A kid could break my living room window and get drunkon my couch!

Quote from: Tebonas on November 30, 2006, 05:10:43 AM

It's inane but has been used by a german judge to kill the online age verification scheme of an online video rental service.

The law for the protection of minors ("Jugendschutzgesetz") states that unrated material or material with a rating of "adult only" may not be sent per mail because the retailer cannot verify if the purchaser is an adult or not. The law was introduced long before the internet was invented, and computer games or splatter movies came into fashion, it's meaning was to prevent porn distributors from sending pornographic material to minors (and probably to prevent them from sending porn to anybody this being the fifties).

This meant that until a few years ago online or mail order retailers for games or movies only had things up to a rating of "suitable for ages 16 or above". With the advent of the internet and some modifications to the law online retailers extended their stock to include everything that was rated as "adult only" but people had to proof that they were of adult age before they could order anything. With automatic shop systems and user accounts it was no problem to restrict the online "adult only" section to only those people that had proof to be adults, so every part of the law was heeded. Minors weren't able to see anything concerning adult material (because the webserver wouldn't give them the relevant pages) and adults would still be able to rent/buy those things provided that they could proof that they were adults in the first place.

Then the first online video rental services came up. They did essentially the same, they had an "adult" section that could only be accessed by people that were verified to be adults. How that verification was done was different from site to site.

Some wanted a copy of your ID card per Fax or E-Mail.
Some wanted you to enter your Passport-ID Number (the age and date of birth is encoded into it)
The most popular service was something called PostIdent (Identification per Mail). The service sent you a form via snail mail, you would fill out the form and then you would head to the nearest post office were you had to give the post office workers that form and show them your ID. They could then ascertain that you are you and that you are of adult age and would certify that by signature and official stamp and would then send the form back to the retailer. The post office charges Eur 20 for that age verification service.

The retailer then could send you stuff via mail because he knew that the receiver was an adult person. Unfortunately the court doesn't see it that way. In a dispute between two online dvd rental services, the court ruled against all the age verification schemes mentioned above. He argued that all the age verification schemes can only ascertain that the purchaser is adult and even that might not be so sure because the user account and/or password might be known to kids living in the same household. They can however not ascertain whether the recipient of the package is adult. The mailman is allowed to give a package to other persons than the recipient or he might just put it in a mailbox where other persons than the intended recipient might take it without the knowledge of that person.

He ruled that the only legal way to send packages was as registered mail because when the package is sent as registered mail only the intended recipient is allowed to get it and he has to be present when the package is delivered.

This killed online video rental of adult material because a letter sent via registered mail costs up to $5 which they then would have to charge from the customers.

So nowadays most online stores do not offer adult only material (which would include things like reservoir dogs or from dusk till dawn or nearly everything by Chan-wook Park) because they don't like the hassle and those that do have to verify via PostIdent that the customer is an adult and need to sent everything via registered mail.