Need help with a homosexuality in Star Wars argument

[Llava]

It's an interesting question, so I asked Frank Miller :

"They're all whores."

Thanks, Frank.

 

[HaemishM]

For the same reason we have fanfic of Spock and Kirk having sweaty mansex while Harry Potter watches in a rabbit costume.

Because some motherfuckers just swing that way.

[Sky]

I hear Jabba tittyfucked Leia.

[Yegolev]

I hear Jabba tittyfucked Leia.

I heard it was the other way around.

[Xilren's Twin]

Jedi's are celibate. And Darth Vader brought the galaxy to it's knees simply because he wanted to get his rocks off.
That's all I know.

Jedi's are formerly castrated as part of their training.  How else can you explain them having all these bad ass mental force powers like telekenesis and not going off Chevy Chase style?

[Margalis]

Maybe you can help me with something Margalis. I'm bad at mathematics.

From the global AIDS statistics 2005:

Adults living with AIDS: 36.3 Mio
Women living with AIDS: 17.3 Mio

Since 17,3 Mio people are roughly half of 36.3 Mio, are these women gay men or part of a large worldwide needle sharing ring?

You missed the part where I said "at least in the US, Africa is a different story."

It may not be politically correct but it is factual to say that in the US needle sharing and gay sex (yes, sexuality was the wrong term) spread AIDS far more than other practices. That doesn't mean I think gays need to go to hell or anything like that, those are just the facts. Especially in the mid 80s - mid 90s where AIDS = death, needle sharers and gay men made up something like 80% of AIDS sufferers.

Again there is no judgement attached to that, but it is what it is. Sharing needles and engaging in (male) gay sex are a lot more dangerous than heterosexual sex. It may also be that gay men tend to have more partners than hetersexuals, but I'm not sure I've ever seen concrete proof of that.

In most African countries the #1 way to contract AIDS is being born with it IIRC. So it is quite different over there.

Edit: Here is what I said, emphasis added:

Male homosexuality *is* a great way to spread STDs. AIDs effects primarily needle sharers and gay men. While this isn't quite as true as it was in the 80s to early 90s it is still true. (At least in this country. In Africa it is totally different)

[Llava]

Okay, here we go.

What do you mean there are no gay people in Star Wars?  C3PO is in it. 
What do you mean there are no gay people in Star Wars?  Jar Jar is in it.
What do you mean there are no gay people in Star Wars?  Hayden Christensen is in it.
It's Star Wars not Anal Wars.
It's Star Wars not Chocolate Starfish Wars.
Han is a smuggler, but not that kind.
Chewbacca may be hairy, but he's no bear.
It's Han and Leia, not Han and Steve.
Of course Star Wars had gay people in it, you're telling me Han and Chewie never got a little desperate out in space?
It's Jabba the Hutt, not Jabba the Butt.
Black people do this, white people do that.
Everything about Star Wars is gay, from two guys having a lightsabre duel to the clear dominant/submissive relationship between Han and Chewie.
They're building a Starbucks everywhere these days, next thing you know they'll have one on Hoth!

[Abagadro]

(At least in this country. In Africa it is totally different)

Woops. I take back my snarky comment then. Sorry. I think the retardicity of this thread seeped into me while I was reading it.

[Righ]

Again there is no judgement attached to that, but it is what it is. Sharing needles and engaging in (male) gay sex are a lot more dangerous than heterosexual sex. It may also be that gay men tend to have more partners than hetersexuals, but I'm not sure I've ever seen concrete proof of that.

You haven't seen concrete proof of the rest either, have you? Heterosexual sex is not safer because its heterosexual sex, it's only safer in populations where the most dangerous diseases are largely endemic to homosexual sub-populations. I'm not an expert on AIDS nor an epidemiologist, but not only does it seem rational that a combination of youth promiscuity in the homosexual population plus a lack of a requirement to practice 'safe sex' from a birth control perspective put them at greater risk in the US, but studies also bear that out.

[Oban]

Actually kind of disturbing statistics:


http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/reports/2004report/table5a.htm

[Lantyssa]

AIDS rates by exposure.  Further break downs can be found by scrolling up or down.

Current rates have heterosexual contact causing more instances than drug use by 43%.  Homosexual countact counts for 34% more than heterosexual.  Considering transmission is easier between males, their population had a head start, and comparing the cumulative cases, we're all screwed at this point.

(If this ends up in Politics then I'll be happy to go into a rant on the correlation of homophobia and very recent research on "straights" that engage in homosexual behavior and how that ties into HIV/AIDS.)

Sorry, trying to frame AIDS as still being a gay man's and druggie's disease is not helpful.


Edit: (And Oban posts part of my figures while I'm getting this all down)

[Margalis]

So in 2004 a man who got AIDS is much more likely to gotten it from gay sex and a bit more likely to have gotten it from needle sharing. And a man who got AIDS before 2004 is that much more likely to have gotten it through one of those two means. 2004 data alone doesn't tell you that much anyway because you can't get AIDS twice. 400k gay men in this country all ready have AIDS, the rates for new infection are going to be lower if for no other reason than that the pool is largely saturated.

According to your data gay sex and needle sharing are far and away the best ways to contract AIDS historically in the US, and are still among the best ways.

I'm not trying frame it as anything other than what it is. There is no need to politicize this. AIDS is not a 'gay disease' or a 'druggie disease' but gay sex and needle sharing are what allowed it to balloon in this country. How many of the women getting AIDS now got it from a man who got it from sharing an needle or having gay sex?

The rest of the population is catching up but refusal to acknowledge the major causes of the spread of AIDS actually kills people and HAS killed people. When the AIDS epidemic started instead of spending our money on generic 'wear a condom' campaigns we probably could have saved a lot of lives by targeting more specifically the communities where AIDS incubated and spread out from. Less money on trying to convince Jimmy to wear a condom while fucking Sally and more money spent on needle exchange programs and getting Jimmy not to fuck Timmy immediately after fucking Bradly.

The spread of disease is not egalitarian, and treating it like it is is counterproductive. We scared a bunch of people into thinking that playing basketball with Magic Johnson would give them AIDS while in large part doing nothing to stop the spread of AIDS among needle sharers and gay men. We essentially allowed AIDS to spread out of political correctness.

Saying that the vast majority of AIDS sufferers have engaged in gay sex or needle sharing is not homophobic, its a fact. Facts aren't  homophobic.

Again I'm not saying "damn those awful gays for speading AIDS!!!" But it is quite proper to point out that the AIDS epedemic was largely gay and needle-sharing when it began and refusal to acknowledge that killed people.

[Tebonas]

Obviously you are right if you ignore every country except the US (not only Africa), which I find interesting. I used the European statistiscs (being European and all), where 58% of the new AIDS patients aquired it through heterosexual contact and only 31% were homsoexual or bisexual men. Drug injections only accounted for 9%.

It still seems to be an US phenomenon and its different here. Which of course begs the question why US numbers are so different. But thats a question thats difficult to answer without further unbiased data. Could be skewed data to prove a point (unlikely), could be an effect of certain biases in US culture.

[Ironwood]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT.

Hold up here :  Are you telling me I've been hearing 'Eurofag' on these boards for years and it turns out that America is MORE GAY than us ?

 

[Tebonas]

I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text.

[Azazel]

It always cracks me up when you start the homosexual debate with nerds. Most of these guys haven't even experienced sex and they go on and on and on about how evil homosexuality is. Not trying to generalize, but some people really need a reality check.

Nerds? Sorry to burst this particular bubble for you mate, but have you noticed what forum we're on? Geekdom's not confined soley to Star Wars/Trek guys. Geekdom's a wide-ranging thing, and lots of "geeks" actually are just normal guys with families. And no, I don't also post/lurk on theforce.net 

As for the "childlike innocence" of Star Wars... I have only this to say.

or show.

show.

[stray]

There's a difference between geeks and nerds. While the guy arguing about gay people in Star Wars is just a dork.

[Roac]

It's less about whether homosexuals or heterosexuals are to blame for the spread of HIV (or responsible, or whatever).  It's that men are effectively plague dogs when it comes to the virus.  Sperm is packed with the virus, and whichever end it winds up being deposited in is where the virus is going to go.  "Pitchers" have a harder time getting infected, although it of course can occur.  Add to that that anal sex increases the risk multiple times over vaginal sex.  What got the virus going in the US was homosexual sex in communities where promiscuous sex was accepted culture; in such groups the virus is going to spread very, very quickly.  It wasn't that all gays contributed to the problem, just mainly these communities with these practices, and lack of condom use.  Not that there was much reason to, at the time.  It's not like they could get pregnant. 

Azazel:  that pic is teh win.

[Miasma]

image

I sincerely doubt that is real, it probably came out of an SA or FARK photoshop thread.

[Yegolev]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT.

Hold up here :  Are you telling me I've been hearing 'Eurofag' on these boards for years and it turns out that America is MORE GAY than us ?

 

Yes, but gay in a manly way.  Tough cowboy sex rather than beret-wearing fairy sex.  More Rock Hudson, less Graham Norton.

[Lantyssa]

According to your data gay sex and needle sharing are far and away the best ways to contract AIDS historically in the US, and are still among the best ways.

Historically, yes.  This isn't 1990 anymore.  There is a lot of shoulda, coulda, didn't that led to AIDS blooming in certain populations in America that got swept under the rug because of a perception of them being undesirables.

We are not at that point anymore.  Trying to treat this disease in 2006 the same way we should have in the '80s and '90s will not stop its spread.  The heterosexual population is now at the point the homosexual population was back then, yet you want to focus on back then.

That is about as effective as AW's and Sinji's graphs and arguments that look only at total population but completely ignore churn.  Numbers are important, but the derivatives give more vital information in predicting the future.

You can focus on what we should have done, I choose to focus on what needs to be done now.  What we need is to focus on is everyone regardless of category.  We can target the message within sub-cultures, but we cannot afford to ignore any group because this now affects the entire population.  Otherwise in a few decades we will end up looking exactly like the rest of the world in our statistics.

[I am not ignoring where it came from, nor the failures this country has done to address it.  I have several friends with AIDS, thank you.  I am interested in preventing the rest of them from being at risk as well.]

[Morat20]

You want to minimize your risk of AIDS? Become a non drug-using lesbian. Lowest risk category. :)

[Lantyssa]

You want to minimize your risk of AIDS? Become a celibate, non drug-using lesbian. Lowest risk category. :)

Fixed that for you.  It ain't a lot of fun though. 

[Morat20]

You want to minimize your risk of AIDS? Become a celibate, non drug-using lesbian. Lowest risk category. :)

Fixed that for you.  It ain't a lot of fun though. 

Nah. It's damn difficult even for nympho lesbians to get it. I doubt celibacy buys you that much, given the transmission rates I've seen.  Now, porno-lesbians with the long fingernails -- no telling. :)

[Llava]

There's always the monestary.


Oh right, I forgot about all the gay sex there... yeah, you're out of luck.

[Lantyssa]

Nah. It's damn difficult even for nympho lesbians to get it. I doubt celibacy buys you that much, given the transmission rates I've seen.  Now, porno-lesbians with the long fingernails -- no telling. :)

Um, no thanks.  You can keep them.

[HaemishM]

Nah. It's damn difficult even for nympho lesbians to get it. I doubt celibacy buys you that much, given the transmission rates I've seen.  Now, porno-lesbians with the long fingernails -- no telling. :)

Um, no thanks.  You can keep them.

Gladly.

[sinij]

Can I keep them after you done?

[HaemishM]

If you don't mind sloppy seconds.

[sinij]

Are we still talking about fingernails? 

[WindupAtheist]

[Oban]

Anyone know when the book "Luke Has Two Daddies: 10th Anniversary Edition" is coming out in paperback?

[Yegolev]

That's just awesome.