Drown Me In Hate Pls

[Ironwood]

I'm looking for as many links, essays and articles as you can possibly find about how paying RL cash for In Game Items is bad.

Go.

[Pococurante]

Let's start with the master.

Dibbell makes interesting observations both pro and con.

[Viin]

http://www.google.com/search?q=paying+cash+for+virtual+items

[tazelbain]

*HATE*

[HaemishM]

Best I can do is copy you my paragraph from Waterthread's 2003 WTFNO awards about Project Entropia:

Biggest Fucking Scam of 2003

Prjoect Entropia should win this award ever single year they are in business. Had we done these awards in 2002, you’d have seen almost the exact same paragraph. You don’t pay to play; no, you pay to do anything that could be considered a meaningful interaction with the world. You pay for the gun or sword that consequently degrades. You pay for bombs to mine for ore which might give you more money to spend. You pay for each bullet that goes in your gun. And if you don’t pay? You get to walk around the ugliest, most barren world ever; you cannot even defend yourself. That’s not a free game, that’s an interactive slideshow. BZZZZZ. You are not a game, you are a scam.

[Raging Turtle]

MTGO.

I like it, but I'm smart enough to realize I'm playing hard cash to move a few lines of code in my account.  I'm sure there are long winded rants about it somewhere on the interweb.

[Ironwood]

http://www.google.com/search?q=paying+cash+for+virtual+items

Yeah.... I was kinda looking for informed articles and essays on it.  Bizarrely, when browsing the dev sites that we all know and love, I'm finding that not a lot of them jump into the 'X is bad because...' essays and tend to go more towards the 'Let's Define Fun' type essays.

But, hey, Google.  It would never have occurred.

[Krakrok]

Two more variations.

http://www.google.com/search?q=players+hate+paying+cash+for+virtual+items
http://www.google.com/search?q=paying+cash+for+virtual+items+terranova

[Evangolis]

Terra Nova talks about RMT a lot, although it is not entirely hostile.  Of note is the entrance of a new poster there, who has an interesting legal view of how virtual property should work.  I recommend the download; it is 78 pages, but the writing is clear and completely non-turgid.  There is a thread discussing his ideas, but he is presently at some seminar, and has not yet replied to it.

There is also a discussion of currency trading in Second Life on Terra Nova at the moment.  The IGE community relations dude who posted here and got promptly denned, also also posted on Cropnews, where they mocked him for seven pages or so.

That's what I can think of offhand.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, every now and then I read the IGE thread over there for a giggle.

He was such a cock-monkey.

[Fargull]

Onlly one that rings a bell.. From Terra Nova.

I vaguely remember a rant from Lum way back when about some house scam, or maybe it is just wishful thinking...

[Pococurante]

Ironwood what's the goal here?  Idle curiosity?  Thesis?  Gonna be the next IGE?

[Jain Zar]

MTGO.

I like it, but I'm smart enough to realize I'm playing hard cash to move a few lines of code in my account.  I'm sure there are long winded rants about it somewhere on the interweb.

I only give the game 15 bucks a month like an MMORPG subscription.  Sure I get pwned by the powergamers preening their virtual dicks in the Newbie Room quite a bit, but I do ok and it makes for a persistant coffee break game.  Unlike an MMORPG where it needs hours of playtime in a sitting, doesn't really change all that much, and requires the money every month OR ELSE.

Real money for virtual goods is still retarded, but the way I do it cuts the retardation down.

[Margalis]

In theory you can redeem your MTGO cards for real cards. Also I do not think MTGO is a good example, because that is a very acceptable way to get cards. You pay, trade, or win. But you can't grind or get XP or do whatever to get cards.

If MTGO was like the old computer game where you fought enemies and won their cards then it would be pretty lame to put that online and also allow people to buy cards. The problem in MMORPGs is that buying is the "wrong" way to get items and such, and the games aren't designed to work with the problems that causes like farming and inflation.

[Ironwood]

Ironwood what's the goal here?  Idle curiosity?  Thesis?  Gonna be the next IGE?

To be honest, it just started as a fight on the internet (yeah, I've been doing that a lot lately.  I have a lot of misplaced anger because of a miscarriage.)  Some guy 'didn't see the harm' in buying gold in wow.  I told him he was a cock.  It spiralled from there.

He claimed it 'wasn't an issue in any online game period', to which I replied, 'well if it wasn't devs and designers wouldn't spend fucking ages talking about the issue.'   He said 'they don't.'

Unbelievable.

I just wanted as many factual and 'named' thesis on the argument as possible.  For me, I think there's no fucking way that you say that RL sales don't impact on WoW, but he (and a couple of other slobbercocks) were adamant it wasn't a problem.

I pay 6g for fadeleaf on my server.  It's a fucking problem all right.

[Merusk]

They discuss it, just not with the masses like us at any length.  Sure Raph or someone will pop their head in from time to time and clarify or espouse a point, but the meaty arguments happen elsewhere.   Try the blogs of those who have it, or googling the muddev archives on usenet.  I believe that's where th most productive discussions are happening.   You could also try PMing Raph, Stormwaltz et-al here and see where they can point you.

[Evangolis]

Darniaq has an article with some links, if you are still looking.

[Pococurante]

Unbelievable.

We're on opposite sides of the fence.  Good luck.  :)

[Venkman]

Darniaq has an article with some links, if you are still looking.

Yea, but Ironwood was looking for anti-RMTing. To me, RMTing is like air. It's there, and polluted or not, we breath it.

I doubt there's going to be any real links that show how it has a negative impact on these games, and probably none from developers. There's money to be made, and except for its black market status in most cases, it's not unlock micropayments in anything.

Besides, it's not RMTing that compels griefing, killstealing, ninja-looting, farming, nor doing any of that for a dozen hours a day.

It's the basic games themselves. Assholes are assholes because the games reward the behavior. Some of them may take their hoard and eBay it. But not all eBayers/IGEers are assholes, not by a long stretch. In fact, being one is bad for those in the actual business, because exposing themselves to the attention of GMs shuts down a revenue flow.

[HRose]

I have a lenghty one here which links to what others wrote.

I also remember another comment from Lum he wrote more recently. Couple of months ago, maybe?