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Author Topic: Amy Winehouse dead  (Read 12086 times)
Sand
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Reply #35 on: July 26, 2011, 02:08:33 PM

*shrug* I don't have any particular beef with Amy Winehouse, I just think that her level of creative output was far lower than other people on that list, and I don't see her having the cultural or artistic impact that any of those guys did. If kids are still putting up Amy Winehouse posters on their walls in 2025 then you can call me wrong, but somehow I do not see it happening.
A lot of kids have Janis Joplin posters.

Yep and Im sure by the time the "entertainment industry" gets done with Amy Winehouse, no talent junkie that she is, that between the movies, the "newly discovered" unreleased tracks, the books, the documentaries and all the other assorted bric-a-brac (lunchboxes!) she will end up being the greatest thing to have ever happened culturally to the UK since the Beatles. She will be a new underground cultural icon inside of 15 years. Hoozah!

Given that Amy Winehouse had a boyfriend, you even ended up with your own version of Courtney Love.
Ingmar
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Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 02:40:12 PM

Except the boyfriend isn't a musician I don't think, whereas Courtney Love actually did make some positive artistic contributions at one time.

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Sheepherder
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Reply #37 on: July 26, 2011, 03:25:15 PM

Except the boyfriend isn't a musician I don't think, whereas Courtney Love actually did make some positive artistic contributions at one time.

By killing Kurt Cobain? Rimshot
Selby
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Reply #38 on: July 26, 2011, 05:10:11 PM

*shrug* I don't have any particular beef with Amy Winehouse, I just think that her level of creative output was far lower than other people on that list, and I don't see her having the cultural or artistic impact that any of those guys did.
Exactly how I feel.  Sure, the one album was decent if you are into that style... but honestly... it was just one album.  Jim Morrison had an entire band career with the Doors and Janis had at least 4 different albums (2 solo and the Big Brother & The Holding Company ones).  Even Nirvana had several albums that people loved.  If she had another 2 or 3 of similar caliber I would have no problem with all the praise she gets.
Hawkbit
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Reply #39 on: July 26, 2011, 06:02:55 PM

It's not just the careers of those artists that made them great - its how they changed the cultural landscape of music.  For better or for worse, Cobain played a large part in defining a huge segment of 90s culture, just as Hendrix/Joplin/Morrison did for the late 60s. 

Winehouse can't claim to have done that. 
apocrypha
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Reply #40 on: July 26, 2011, 10:21:04 PM

I think her talent was overstated. Great voice, sure. Found some of her lyrics banal and cliched. But whatever, personal taste is just that - personal.

The tragedy is how the press and celebrity/music/fame business destroyed her. Many young celebrities just can't handle the impact on their lives of that kind of attention and pressure. The UK press in particular was brutal and went to great lengths to document her descent into addiction and catastrophe. I think just blaming the addict for their self-destruction is simplistic at the best of times, but when it's complicated by constant media attention, with journalists and editors hanging around like vultures 24/7 then it's only half the story.

"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
Chimpy
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Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 04:26:33 AM

The outpouring of "grief" from figures in the entertainment industry is more guilt than anything. The people around her enabled her destructive behavior and as a whole did not try to stop her in good faith as they knew that self destructive artists get more press and sell more than those that are not. They also are much easier to latch onto and leech off of.

Sure, there are people that are truly sad she is gone, but a lot of the outpouring of sentiment that "she was so great, it is a tragedy she died so young" are really just saying that to cover up the fact that they did not give a shit when it actually mattered.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Sand
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Reply #42 on: July 29, 2011, 08:41:17 AM

Her recording company announced to The Guardian yesterday that they could be releasing up to a dozen new previously unheard songs. I called it.
Oh entertainment industry, how utterly predictable you are.   awesome, for real
01101010
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Reply #43 on: July 29, 2011, 09:02:19 AM

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43941280/ns/today-entertainment/

At least some good will come of this... in the form of an iPod ...  swamp poop

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Aez
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Reply #44 on: August 02, 2011, 03:00:09 PM

Congrats amy winehouse on 10 days sober!
Slayerik
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Reply #45 on: August 03, 2011, 05:24:15 AM

Ok, I admit it. I laughed at that one.

"I have more qualifications than Jesus and earn more than this whole board put together.  My ego is huge and my modesty non-existant." -Ironwood
Simond
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Reply #46 on: August 03, 2011, 01:14:07 PM

The outpouring of "grief" from figures in the entertainment industry is more guilt than anything. The people around her enabled her destructive behavior and as a whole did not try to stop her in good faith as they knew that self destructive artists get more press and sell more than those that are not. They also are much easier to latch onto and leech off of.

Sure, there are people that are truly sad she is gone, but a lot of the outpouring of sentiment that "she was so great, it is a tragedy she died so young" are really just saying that to cover up the fact that they did not give a shit when it actually mattered.
Russell Brand (of all fucking people) actually did a pretty good tribute/obit: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman
Quote
When you love someone who suffers from the disease of addiction you await the phone call. There will be a phone call. The sincere hope is that the call will be from the addict themselves, telling you they've had enough, that they're ready to stop, ready to try something new. Of course though, you fear the other call, the sad nocturnal chime from a friend or relative telling you it's too late, she's gone.

Frustratingly it's not a call you can ever make it must be received. It is impossible to intervene.

I've known Amy Winehouse for years. When I first met her around Camden she was just some twit in a pink satin jacket shuffling round bars with mutual friends, most of whom were in cool indie bands or peripheral Camden figures Withnail-ing their way through life on impotent charisma.

Carl Barāt told me that Winehouse (which I usually called her and got a kick out of cos it's kind of funny to call a girl by her surname) was a jazz singer, which struck me as a bizarrely anomalous in that crowd. To me with my limited musical knowledge this information placed Amy beyond an invisible boundary of relevance: "Jazz singer? She must be some kind of eccentric," I thought. I chatted to her anyway though, she was after all, a girl, and she was sweet and peculiar but most of all vulnerable.

I was myself at that time barely out of rehab and was thirstily seeking less complicated women so I barely reflected on the now glaringly obvious fact that Winehouse and I shared an affliction, the disease of addiction. All addicts, regardless of the substance or their social status share a consistent and obvious symptom; they're not quite present when you talk to them. They communicate to you through a barely discernible but unignorable veil. Whether a homeless smack head troubling you for 50p for a cup of tea or a coked-up, pinstriped exec foaming off about his speedboat, there is a toxic aura that prevents connection. They have about them the air of elsewhere, that they're looking through you to somewhere else they'd rather be. And of course they are. The priority of any addict is to anaesthetise the pain of living to ease the passage of the day with some purchased relief.

From time to time I'd bump into Amy she had good banter so we could chat a bit and have a laugh, she was a character but that world was riddled with half-cut, doped-up chancers, I was one of them, even in early recovery I was kept afloat only by clinging to the bodies of strangers so Winehouse, but for her gentle quirks didn't especially register.

Then she became massively famous and I was pleased to see her acknowledged but mostly baffled because I'd not experienced her work. This not being the 1950s, I wondered how a jazz singer had achieved such cultural prominence. I wasn't curious enough to do anything so extreme as listen to her music or go to one of her gigs, I was becoming famous myself at the time and that was an all consuming experience. It was only by chance that I attended a Paul Weller gig at the Roundhouse that I ever saw her live.

I arrived late and as I made my way to the audience through the plastic smiles and plastic cups I heard the rolling, wondrous resonance of a female vocal. Entering the space I saw Amy on stage with Weller and his band; and then the awe. The awe that envelops when witnessing a genius. From her oddly dainty presence that voice, a voice that seemed not to come from her but from somewhere beyond even Billie and Ella, from the font of all greatness. A voice that was filled with such power and pain that it was at once entirely human yet laced with the divine. My ears, my mouth, my heart and mind all instantly opened. Winehouse. Winehouse? Winehouse! That twerp, all eyeliner and lager dithering up Chalk Farm Road under a back-combed barnet, the lips that I'd only seen clenching a fishwife fag and dribbling curses now a portal for this holy sound.

So now I knew. She wasn't just some hapless wannabe, yet another pissed-up nit who was never gonna make it, nor was she even a ten-a-penny-chanteuse enjoying her fifteen minutes. She was a fucking genius.

Shallow fool that I am, I now regarded her in a different light, the light that blazed down from heaven when she sang. That lit her up now and a new phase in our friendship began. She came on a few of my TV and radio shows, I still saw her about but now attended to her with a little more interest. Publicly though, Amy increasingly became defined by her addiction. Our media though is more interested in tragedy than talent, so the ink began to defect from praising her gift to chronicling her downfall. The destructive personal relationships, the blood-soaked ballet slippers, the aborted shows, that YouTube madness with the baby mice. In the public perception this ephemeral tittle-tattle replaced her timeless talent. This and her manner in our occasional meetings brought home to me the severity of her condition.

Addiction is a serious disease; it will end with jail, mental institutions or death. I was 27 years old when through the friendship and help of Chip Somers of the treatment centre Focus 12 I found recovery. Through Focus I was introduced to support fellowships for alcoholics and drug addicts that are very easy to find and open to anybody with a desire to stop drinking and without which I would not be alive.

Now Amy Winehouse is dead, like many others whose unnecessary deaths have been retrospectively romanticised, at 27 years old. Whether this tragedy was preventable or not is now irrelevant. It is not preventable today. We have lost a beautiful and talented woman to this disease. Not all addicts have Amy's incredible talent. Or Kurt's or Jimi's or Janis's. Some people just get the affliction. All we can do is adapt the way we view this condition, not as a crime or a romantic affectation but as a disease that will kill.

We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalisation doesn't even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call.

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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