What MMORPG's Don't Involve Questing & Leveling?

[LK]

Fallen Earth has become one of those titles I recommend every MMO enthusiast at least give a spin.

[Slyfeind]

Role playing in an MMO is more like an open orchestra with no conductor, anyone of any skill level can walk in at any time, and everyone brings their own instrument and plays whatever song they want.  Then toss PvP into the mix and things REALLY get ugly! 

Hehehe.

[Sky]

What is a RPG with out progression and gates?

A game in which you roleplay?

It's too bad RPG became synonymous with levelling up characters, because it was never really about the rules. The rules lawyers won!

[Shatter]

www.Wolfquest.org

[Mrbloodworth]

What is a RPG with out progression and gates?

A game in which you roleplay?

It's too bad RPG became synonymous with levelling up characters, because it was never really about the rules. The rules lawyers won!

Well, that happened when systems became automated. Also, I am currently on the Wurm online dev team. Heh.

[Lantyssa]

That... explains a lot.

[LK]

Also, I am currently on the Wurm online dev team. Heh.

[rattran]

Also, I am currently on the Wurm online dev team. Heh.

Yeah, I want to their site, still seems equal parts  and 

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm helping with artwork/optimization of assets and some of the noob experience, and have only been on the team for about three months now. Design of systems, is, not my department.

That... explains a lot.

Does it? 

[Lantyssa]

It was a joke.

[Mrbloodworth]

It was a joke.

I'm old. Green should come back.

[Lantyssa]

You're younger then me.

[rattran]

He's younger than most people here, going by the pointless poll thread.

[Venkman]

What exactly would be the problem with having a sandboxy world that had interesting quests in it? 

Nothing. It's just that normally the amount of quests in it are not enough to offset the need to go make some real decisions that have long-lasting impact on one's standing in that world. And then there's the point you eventually reach where you absolutely need to interact with other people. Dikus don't require this. Most people can solo hit the cap (or some soft-cap of boredom) and leave, and feel they were rightly entertained for 3-6 months. Sandboxy games always make you wonder "wait, just how well am I doing here"?

As for role play, the biggest problems for role play in MMOs revolve around trying to keep conflicting styles of play happily cohabiting the same space without any referees. 

No, the biggest problem with role play is that most gamers don't give a shit about role playing, and there's a lot more people to attract from other genres than there are to try and upconvert from tabletop RPGs. So developers had a choice between creating co-op multiplayer games with a thin economy and some grouping tools to keep people together against the common foe of content gates, or go the Second Life route of giving as many tools as possible to players and letting them invent roles they want to play.

[pxib]

In my experience most people who want to roleplay want to roleplay gods. It's a rare few who want to play peasants, soldiers, and shopkeepers. Gods don't tend to group well, and they lack for challenges... the very things that make lives (and stories) interesting.

Most people can solo hit the cap (or some soft-cap of boredom) and leave, and feel they were rightly entertained for 3-6 months. Sandboxy games always make you wonder "wait, just how well am I doing here"?

This. A thousand times this. The vast majority of gamers want a goal. The word game actually implies a goal. Something for the player to explore or master with pretty specific win conditions. The most successful computer games have multiple goals, often themselves composed of tiers of stair-stepped mini-goals. Not merely "what do I want to accomplish with this game" but "what do I want to accomplish today?" and "what do I want to accomplish in the next three minutes?" Popular games usually all but answer those questions for you. It's rewarding to wander off the beaten track, and a delight to find designer acknowledgement there... but first there must be a beaten track.

A very clever sandbox might encapsulate all of that within the skill system itself... a Tome of Knowledge with friendly advice about where to go and what to do based on skills you have, places you've gone, and actions you've preferred. Even then it's going to need to offer a few friendly examples from the get go.

[Lantyssa]

In my experience most people who want to roleplay want to roleplay gods. It's a rare few who want to play peasants, soldiers, and shopkeepers. Gods don't tend to group well, and they lack for challenges... the very things that make lives (and stories) interesting.

There are plenty of roleplayers want to be normal people living in the world provided.  See the majority of my (mostly) all-Bothan SWG back at it's peak.

Now there are some bad RPers who go that route, but usually they focus on other things and 'RP' is just a cover for wanting to be the center of the universe.

[pxib]

They tend to gather, but they're still rare.

[UnSub]

Also, I am currently on the Wurm online dev team. Heh.

This means you need a redname, Bloodworth.

[Count Nerfedalot]

As for role play, the biggest problems for role play in MMOs revolve around trying to keep conflicting styles of play happily cohabiting the same space without any referees. 

No, the biggest problem with role play is that most gamers don't give a shit about role playing, and there's a lot more people to attract from other genres than there are to try and upconvert from tabletop RPGs. So developers had a choice between creating co-op multiplayer games with a thin economy and some grouping tools to keep people together against the common foe of content gates, or go the Second Life route of giving as many tools as possible to players and letting them invent roles they want to play.

Most gamers not giving a shit about RP is one of the (primary) conflicting styles of play I was referring to.

[Ratman_tf]

What is a RPG with out progression and gates?

A game in which you roleplay?

It's too bad RPG became synonymous with levelling up characters, because it was never really about the rules. The rules lawyers won!

SSI gold box series disagrees. It's always been about leveling up characters. The exceptions are heavily outnumbered by the legions of Final Fantasy and Diablo clones. Hell, even pencil and paper can devolve into it.