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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Eve Online  |  Topic: Another new guy with questions 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Mantas
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on: April 12, 2008, 03:32:32 PM

Greetings, Ive been lurking for a long time (including the original LtM) though I'm not much of a poster. However EVE is so complicated I'm thinking I'll need a bit of help with overall guidance from some experienced folks.
 I've read the available info here (which is great btw) and elsewhere, but...I still have questions.
 My primary interest in EVE is getting into PvP: gang warfare, fleets, pirate related stuff  awesome, for real. Missioning seems kinda dull and only a means to grind ISK, so if i can fund myself though PvP or trading/manufacturing (no interest in mining either) I'd much prefer that.
 My character ( Mantas Vhex ) is a couple days old now. I started as Minmatar special forces after reading some advice from Hoax, and i think Ive got most of the basic stuff for being a tackler type. Currently he's flying a thrasher (bleh) using artillery cannons. I understand that autocannons are better later and in PvP.
 What I'm looking at is how to be most effective about a one or two months time. I'm seriously looking at drones and a Vexer-->Myrmidon-->Dominix, as they seem the shortest route to be somewhat usefull, and i really like the look of Gallente ships over Minmatar. 
 But..I'm not certain i want to micromanage drones, and am also thinking about doing small autocannon spec to use with a rifter or medium auto cannon spec to use with a rupture. Also, the more direct DD/in your face/alpha type ships sound more fun.
 So...ill be more specific:
1) Which t2 damage ability would you recommend for level 2 missions and pvp ( drones, small or medium autocannons )
2) Is it not smart to train autocannons over hybrid for gallente ships? (Ive read many drone pilots turn off their guns to save cap)
3) I find missiles very fun, but i read most gang warfare use armor tanking type ships so caldari ships might not be great for me?

 
 
caladein
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Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 04:16:50 PM

* You don't really need T2 anything for Level 2 missions, just a cruiser with appropriate fittings.  (Frigates can do very well in L2 missions as well, just that they're a bit more squishy.)  A Rupture with T1 Medium Autocannons should do short work of most L2.

* For PvP, guns and drones are both fantastic.  Missiles lose a bit of their PvE luster against other players because of the mechanics like flight time and explosion velocity.  That said, Caldari offer some good Hybrid platforms for your sniping needs.

* Gun size really comes down to the ship you're flying.  You can't really put Medium guns on a frigate without completely killing your powergrid.  Small/Medium/Large Turrets are usually fitted on Frigates/Cruisers/Battleships respectively.  Missiles go Light/Heavy/Cruise for the main line and Rockets/Assault/Torpedo for the short-range stuff.

* A lot of Gallente ships will have both a drone and a hybrid turret bonus (notable exception would be the Battlecruisers as they go with one or the other and a repper bonus).  As you said though, a lot of folks that specialize in drones will only fit one or two guns for aggro-gain purposes.  (Morat20 on f13, Acica Dy'neer in-game would be a good person to ask on this stuff.)

Minmatar ships sort of make you train a little of everything, so it's a great place to start with if you're not sure on cross-training.  That, and if you decide you like their ships, they've got speed to spare.

"Point being, they can't make everyone happy, so I hope they pick me." -Ingmar
"OH MY GOD WE'RE SURROUNDED SEND FOR BACKUP DIG IN DEFENSIVE POSITIONS MAN YOUR NECKBEARDS" -tgr
Nerf
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Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 06:24:41 PM

1.)  Projectile weapons are great, they aren't top damage though, blasters (hybrid short range) outdamage autocannons, but they actually cap, where I can fire my projectiles all day and not give a damn about cap use.

c.)  In two months you could be in a thorax w/ t2 blasters and a MWD outdamaging alot of battleships.

42.)  That thorax will die in a hit, but you probably won't be very high on the target list because noone thinks you're doing that much damage.

IV.)  Missions *can* be fun for awhile, but you'll make more money living down in 0.0 following someone around salvaging/looting their shit.
 
.)  Using projectiles (more than likely artillery for pve) on a drone boat isn't a bad idea if you don't mind devoting a bit of training towards them, don't bother getting t2s right away, focus on other stuff.
Krakrok
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Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 09:19:19 PM


Drones are awesome. I don't run any guns at all. They are actually easier to manage than guns because you control all five of them with one right click vs. turning your guns on and off on various targets. You just have to watch and make sure they aren't taking damage. With drones you can use smalls to take out frigs. You can also use larges to take out everything from frigs to cruisers to battleships. Or you can use sentry drones which force you to sit in one place but let you shoot some serious damage out to 50km-120km depending on which sentry drones you pick.

With a battleship you can carry smalls, heavies, and two different ranges of sentries or any number of drone combinations. Frankly, I don't fly anything but the Dominix because it is so versatile and low cost. There are better ships that fit into niches in what they are best at but the Dominix is good at most everything.
Mantas
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Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 09:32:10 PM

Thanks for the advice guys. I like the idea of a scrappy drone boat with guns that will still function under dire conditions.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS
 That said, what sort of ship is the paper to the dominix rock?
Nerf
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Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 09:40:40 PM

Eve isn't your standard diku with rock/paper/scissors combos really, there is almost zero solo pvp, unless you count getting ganked solo pvp.

Battleships get rocked hard by speed, well, so does everything else, but battleships especially.  Unfortunately, you won't be able to equip that speed very well for quite awhile, and once you can, most of your battleships skills (at least for gallente/drones) just get packed into a smaller, much, much MUCH faster package (the Ishtar Heavy Assault Cruiser) --  a cruiser sized ship that's as fast as most interceptors and has the damage of a battleship.

While the minmatar are pretty wicked, it's a longer training path than some of the others, our ships are about versatility, we use guns AND missiles, shields AND armor, where the other races have you pick one or the other.

I advise most of our noobs to go gallente, follow the goonfleet wiki and do the PvE drone spec, get into t2 medium drones, and then decide if you want to go drones or guns, eventually you'll use both, so don't worry about wasted skillpoints.

If you want to go minmatar, good for you, the Vagabond is one of the nastiest ships in PvP atm, but I'm absolutely certain it'll be nerfed by the time you can fly it well.
Krakrok
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Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 09:47:12 PM

I've been owned by Ravens and Armageddons in one on one fights. They simply did more damage faster. Eve isn't a 1v1 game though for the most part.
ajax34i
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Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 09:06:45 AM

I'll reply to what I think are some of the assumptions behind your first post, too:

1.  PVP is not a solo activity; you'll see that every single ship you look at will be poor at something:  either it can't tackle so your enemies run away, or it doesn't do enough DPS, or it just dies too fast.

2.  Making ISK is a grind, even if you do it via PVP.  And by "grind" I mean the money trickles in little by little, and you have to keep doing whatever you're doing.  It's easy to start PVP with throwaway frigates, but once you start feeling the need to fly T2 ships with T2 or officer fittings just to survive, it'll hurt.  You don't grind for xp and levels in this game (skill points come automatically in time), but you sure do grind for cash.

Finally, I'm not an expert at PVP, and I'm mostly a newbie, but the "average" gear nowadays seems to be T2 ships with T2 modules.  You see a lot of interceptors, covert cruisers, HACs for their resists and/or speed, and heavy interdictor cruisers in small-gang skirmishes, and from what I've been reading on the forums, alliance warfare is all about the capital ships, POSes, and blobs.  Any of these ships will take you several months of skillling up to be able to fly.

The T1 frigate -> cruiser -> battleship line of training is good for grinding missions or ratting for cash, and you CAN put together a few PVP-worthy setups in them, but they'll likely require several other people to be ganged with you, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2008, 09:08:35 AM by ajax34i »
MahrinSkel
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Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 03:56:08 PM

1.  PVP is not a solo activity; you'll see that every single ship you look at will be poor at something:  either it can't tackle so your enemies run away, or it doesn't do enough DPS, or it just dies too fast.
There used to be gankers that operated solo against ratters, but population densities in 0.0 have simple gotten too high, in high-speed setups that can tackle and outrun a ratting BS's tracking, you can't get a kill anywhere near fast enough.  Used to take 10-15 minutes before someone could get back to a base, fit out for PvP, and come to help, now there are people running around in PvP fitted ships all the time, or have them pre-fitted in the stations (which are now much closer to the ratting grounds), or simply scattered about at POS, and they're on you in a couple of minutes.  The frontier era of 0.0 is over, no cowboys allowed.  Only solo "PvP" left is suiciding industrials in Empire, and as more people shift to T2 transports (and shield tanking them) that window is closing.

--Dave

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Phred
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Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 02:13:43 AM

I'll reply to what I think are some of the assumptions behind your first post, too:

The T1 frigate -> cruiser -> battleship line of training is good for grinding missions or ratting for cash, and you CAN put together a few PVP-worthy setups in them, but they'll likely require several other people to be ganged with you, in my opinion.

Good advice up to this part. I'd caution against moving to a battleship too fast without all the support skills to back it up. I moved up to a domi this last week and the first L4 mission I tried had me warping out with about 150hp left on infrastructure.

You need good (probably t2) armor, armor repping, cap regen and other skills to survive L4's.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 03:17:54 AM by Phred »
Phildo
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Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 02:20:32 AM

Oh, no way!  My tanking skills are mediocre at best.  Can't even use T2 medium reppers yet.  And it was an L4.  Rainbow damage hurts.
Phred
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Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 03:17:32 AM

Oh, no way!  My tanking skills are mediocre at best.  Can't even use T2 medium reppers yet.  And it was an L4.  Rainbow damage hurts.

Ah ok. Post corrected on the mission level.

Morat20
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Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 11:30:57 AM

Oh, no way!  My tanking skills are mediocre at best.  Can't even use T2 medium reppers yet.  And it was an L4.  Rainbow damage hurts.
I suggest paying out for an anti-explosive damage rig (I think explosive is the weakest one on a Domi), if you have a spare slot. Getting armor rigging to III only takes a day or so, so the speed penalty isn't that bad.
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