I shine my greens with raider tears.

[WindupAtheist]

I have friends who've raided, but I've never even heard of a raiding guild that wasn't a bunch of people where the hate for each other (or hate between cliques) was outweighed by the desire for loot, intermixed with episodes of the inverse that exploded into drama.  You schmucks (raiders in general) certainly never SOUND like you're having fun.  Just stroking your e-peens or screaming at each other over who should have gotten the last pair of uber pants.

[Tebonas]

I have to disagree. While I know most are that way, some are indeed Dramafree. Mostly because they are basically just one tight clique.

[WindupAtheist]

Then huzzah for ten-mans of everything.  Now the cliques can go be separate guilds.  Yeah?

EDIT:  Seriously, it always seems to be either...

"Legion of Aramithariaryhtia has once again enhanced its status, its myth, its legend in the eyes of its worldwide fans by being the 47th Horde guild in Wisconsin to down Bloothagria!"

Or else it's...

"YOU STOLD MY FUCKIN CLOUDSONG!  RAAAAGR!  RAGE!"

[Tebonas]

Are you asking me? Because personally, yes. The less people, the less chance for one of them being an asshole, the less drama.

[lamaros]

Oh I'll be playing 10mans in the exp, not 25 unless there's not of different stuff there.

I stopped plying because I got bored of the repetition, too. But some people get less frustration from the repitition than me, and more fun from killing new stuff, so they still have fun overall.

[UnSub]

So this is the thread where people not playing AoC are hanging out then?

[Tarami]

So this is the thread where people not playing AoC are hanging out then?

Or just people stuck at work. Crushing my enemies is more of a hobby.

[Valmorian]

Where is the hilarious "omg Pac man sucks only the fucking hardcore losers get the high scores" thread? Or the "lol they wiped the high-scores when they moved the Pac-man machine I love seeing you hardcores cry" thread? Or the "lol get a life losers I just play Pac-man every now and then, how it should be played!" thread?

They're waiting for the websites and threads where Pac-Man players with high scores talk about how "uber" they are and how the noobs don't deserve to play the newest pac-man machine because they haven't put enough time into the last one.

But don't worry, I'm just as baffled by those rare individuals that did devote the time to memorize the perfect pac-man patterns, too.

[El Gallo]

Two thoughts. First, especially given how fucking slow Blizzard is at generating content, they would be better served by picking a group size, picking a raid size and sticking to it.  They can't make enough x-mans OR z-mans as it is.  Adding w-mans to the mix is the fail. And no, you can't just cut 20-man hit points in half and have a good 10-man. They should just have 5s and 10s, or 5s and 25s, or 5s and 15s, or 5s and wtfevers (or, hell, just 5s) so people can design their guilds and be done with it.

Second, raiding obviously takes quite a bit of skill, much of which is coordination. Think of 24 having 24 people playing Guitar Hero, only there are several different songs being played at once by different players, and they have to toss their controllers back and forth and switch to one of the different songs on the fly without missing a beat or you wipe.   Is it fun? For some people.  It's not really my bag.  But it's certainly a skilled activity. So was getting all those Korean prisoners to do the dance from Thriller.

I mean, think about it. There are hundreds of uber-catass, farm-whatever-it-takes guilds in WoW. But the same handful of guilds get almost all the serverwide firsts. But they don't play more than others, and in some cases I bet they play less.

The "only time matters" argument held a lot more water during EQs heyday, when raids were (a) all just tank-and-spank gearchecks and most importantly (b) not instanced (getting a chance to kill the target was often much harder than killing it because Euros, students and the reserve army of the unemployed would have everything worth killing dead before Joe Sixpack got home from work).  Even in EQ though, among the no-lifer guilds on the top of each server, there were a handful that usually got all the serverwide firsts.

This really is the new tram-v-fel debate.

[tmp]

[By your logic going out drinking with your friends is unfun the 100th time you do it also. Or having sex the 100th time in your life? Or ... get the point?

Well, having sex with the same person and in exactly the same way for the 100th time _does_ get boring for people... 

[amiable]

Second, raiding obviously takes quite a bit of skill, much of which is coordination. Think of 24 having 24 people playing Guitar Hero, only there are several different songs being played at once by different players, and they have to toss their controllers back and forth and switch to one of the different songs on the fly without missing a beat or you wipe.   Is it fun? For some people.  It's not really my bag.  But it's certainly a skilled activity. So was getting all those Korean prisoners to do the dance from Thriller.

Uh, no.  Most encounters you sat in one spot hitting the same 3 buttons repeatedly.  Occasionally some foozle would happen and the RAId leader would yell over vent: move here.  If the actual mechanics were anything close to do the difficulty of Guitar hero 99.9% of the "hardcore raiders" would never have gotten past the first boss in the first raid instance.

The vast majority of the "skill" involved in Raiding is organizaitonal.  Arranging 40 folks to meet in the same 4 hour timeblock of the appropraite classes was the challenge.  Everything else was just learning the encounters, which was the easy part.

[WindupAtheist]

El Gallo, did you stop posting for a while or something?  I don't remember seeing much of you lately.

[El Gallo]

El Gallo, did you stop posting for a while or something?  I don't remember seeing much of you lately.

I've just been very busy IRL during my normal reading/posting times (i.e. at work) the last few months. I'm touched that you noticed 

[Fabricated]

So this is the thread where people not playing AoC are hanging out then?

I wonder what it'll be if this thread is still going like 5-6 months from now and no one is playing AoC.

[Nebu]

I wonder what it'll be if this thread is still going like 5-6 months from now and no one is playing AoC.

I'm not commenting.  I never imagined people would want to play WoW longer than 6 months....

[shiznitz]

So this is the thread where people not playing AoC are hanging out then?

I wonder what it'll be if this thread is still going like 5-6 months from now and no one is playing AoC.

You can level to 40 in 40 hours /played. AoC is fun but how sticky can it be at that rate?  I hope the devs decide to find out and don't nerf in the grind.