Beginning rogue builds.

[SurfD]

The alt-a-holic in me is acting up again, so i was wondering, what would any of you rogue's reccomend for a talent progression in the early levels.  I confess i know nearly nothing about how rogues work talent wize (though i do have a 70 mage and 70 druid, rogue talents are rather a mystery to me)

[Kail]

I'm not exactly an expert, but for levelling, Combat works well for me.  Generally I go for something like this:
(Talent Calculator)
With a slow main hand weapon and a fast off-hand, it seems to be pretty nice.  Blade Flurry is very nice, and it works well with Adrenaline Rush and Improved Slice and Dice.

Weapon specialization talents I generally avoid, because I'm finding new weapons fairly regularly as I level, and I like to switch between them to keep my skills high.
Improved sprint, improved kick, and blade twisting are nice for PvP, but I don't find them terribly handy for levelling.

Assassination and Subtlety, I haven't played around with much.  Assassination seems to do nice damage, but it leans on daggers a lot, and a lot of the time when I'm levelling I use other weapons.  Subtlety I don't really get; I think it's kind of a PvP tree (though Assassination works well for PvP too). 

But I'm not exactly an expert on talents.  If anyone else contradicts me, they're probably right.  This is just what I've found handy.

[Chenghiz]

10-11: Imp. Sinister Strike
12-16: Malice
17-18: Remorseless Attacks
19-21: Imp. Eviscerate
22: Relentless Strikes
23-25: Imp. Gouge
26-30: Precision
31-35: Deflection
36: Riposte
37-41: Dual Wield Spec
42: Blade Flurry
43-47: Sword Spec
48-50: Aggression
51: Adrenaline Rush
52-56: Lethality

From there you can figure out where to go, that's the important bit.

Sinister Strike will be your most optimal attack. Backstab relies on your being able to get behind the target, which is bad before level 26 when you get cheap shot, bad against multiple mobs, and bad against things you can't stun or gouge.

[Fordel]

Subtlety is a combo point builder mostly around Hemo spam replacing SS.

I haven't checked in awhile, but Hemo was NOT normalized like most other instant attacks in game, which was the primary draw of it.

[Simond]

Sinister Strike will be your most optimal attack. Backstab relies on your being able to get behind the target, which is bad before level 26 when you get cheap shot, bad against multiple mobs, and bad against things you can't stun or gouge.

And also because you can't backstab with swords (which should be your main weapons with this levelling spec). :)

[SurfD]

not knowing much about rogues, what is your high damage opener from stealth with a non daggers build (since you cant backstab or ambush without a dagger)

[Merusk]

You don't have one.  Daggers in the pre-bc game are few and far between and mostly suck, so Rogues relied on the much more common swords and SS/ Evis spam.

[Simond]

Yeah, levelling-spec rogues are more swashbucker/bandit/thug/etc. rather than assassin.

[Zetor]

Theoretically you could go mutilate spec at 60+ with two 1.8 daggers and just burst the mobs down before they react [cs, mut (hopefully with at least one crit due to remorseless), maybe shiv, 5-point ks, mut, mut, evis, dead], but I think combat is still a lot better. Combat Potency is HUGE if you use a fast offhander, and blade flurry doubles your damage output if you are fighting a mob with a pet, or two mobs. And then there's the Adrenaline Rush + Blade Flurry + Evasion 'I Win' button, which pretty much guarantees that 2-3 mobs will die before those three wear off.

For levelling, mace spec is actually not bad at all, though harder to gear for (not many slow mainhand/quick offhand maces), and of course gimped in raiding. Those stuns mitigate a heck of a lot of damage, and can be useful vs casters... pretty darn nice in pvp, also.

[disclaimer: though my old main was a rogue, I played him for about... 40 minutes since BC released, so this is going by my guildies' experiences mostly]


-- Z.

[cmlancas]

You don't have one.  Daggers in the pre-bc game are few and far between and mostly suck, so Rogues relied on the much more common swords and SS/ Evis spam.

Really? My alt when I played pre-bc could oneshot clothies/pansy mobs on a crit with a 2.0 speed dagger from someplace. Let's see if I can find it.

Here it is: http://thottbot.com/i3336

He was fun to play in BG's pre-30. I didn't give a shit about winning, I just wanted to one-shot people and bask in my lameness.

[Morat20]

I have a 22 Rogue. He's all about being a sneaky bastard. It's not the optimal way to level, but it's fun as hell.

[Xanthippe]

I saw an assassin's blade going for 800g.  It's been up on AH for a few days; I don't know if it'll sell for that much.

[cmlancas]

The Flesh Piercer (although I'm not sure about now since changes) used to do a ton more damage because it was slower and had a higher maximum damage.

Is it still that way?

[bhodi]

I'm afraid Chenghiz and Kail are wrong. A while ago, I was pretty active on wowwii's rogue section. I'm gratified to see it's still there. All you need to know is here:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_builds#Leveling_to_60

Follow that guide, put points in that order. The only thing you'll touch in combat tree for quite a while is your first two points in SS.

The issue is that combat really sucks until the fifth tier, ALL the good abilities are later. The solution is to go assassination until level 40, and then respec into combat to get all the good stuff (adrenaline rush, blade fury) and then back-fill back into assassination. You go swords, or sword/dagger until level 40, then get yourself a fast offhand sword.

[Merusk]

Flesh piercer is 1 more min dam and 1 more max dam than Assassin's Blade, and is only .1s slower.  (21/40 2.0 on FP)  AB is a level 19 item, FP is level 24.

Start to look in the 30s and 40s and things change item wise.  Daggers go to about 80 max damage on average pre-bc, and the speed drops on most to the point you're lucky to find one at 1.8, much less 2.0.

In the 30s the max damage on a dagger is around 59. Swords and maces, however, it's easy to obtain a 2.2 or slower weapon with a max damage of 80 or better in the 30s up to 130 in the 40s if you want to shell-out for (Or hell, if you can even find it these days) the Bloodrazor.

That's why the Barman's Shanker was such a highly-coveted rogue weapon.  Its max damage of 90 was uber for a dagger until you started raiding/ farming L60 instances.

[Xanthippe]

Flesh piercer is 1 more min dam and 1 more max dam than Assassin's Blade, and is only .1s slower.  (21/40 2.0 on FP)  AB is a level 19 item, FP is level 24.

Also, AB is the 19 twink dagger, which is why it commands such a high price.  I don't think anyone is going to pay even 200g for an item they can use for ten levels.

[Morat20]

Flesh piercer is 1 more min dam and 1 more max dam than Assassin's Blade, and is only .1s slower.  (21/40 2.0 on FP)  AB is a level 19 item, FP is level 24.

Also, AB is the 19 twink dagger, which is why it commands such a high price.  I don't think anyone is going to pay even 200g for an item they can use for ten levels.

I love twink BG's -- I sold an Underworld Band a few weeks ago to someone for like 150 gold. It was really obviously for someone's BG twink.

Got it farming mageweave for my tailor alt.

[Threash]

Swords are just so much easier to get though that you simply do not have to worry about getting weapons for your entire leveling career.  The cruel barb will last you until you can get the quest SM sword of serenity which will last you until you can get the quest sword thrash blade from maraudon which i was still using when i hit 60 on my rogue.

[bhodi]

Seriously. Use my leveling spec, and Daryl's Shortsword -> Jade Serpentblade -> Sword of Serenity ->Thrash blade is where it's at.

The jade serpentblade is particularly good since it's very cheaply crafted. If you have more cash, it can be substituted for the Phantom Blade.

[Xanthippe]

I love twink BG's -- I sold an Underworld Band a few weeks ago to someone for like 150 gold. It was really obviously for someone's BG twink.

Got it farming mageweave for my tailor alt.

Or a rich 70 who's raising an alt.  That's an awesome ring.  I bought two of them for my lock, and used them for a really long time.

[Phred]

10-11: Imp. Sinister Strike
12-16: Malice
17-18: Remorseless Attacks
19-21: Imp. Eviscerate
22: Relentless Strikes
23-25: Imp. Gouge
26-30: Precision

I'd put in MoD and Camo myself, just for the sheer amount of tedium it reduces while you are leveling and questing. you can always spec out of it at 70 when you decide to min-max your char to death but I'll take the points missing elsewhere vs waiting for my damn char to sluggishly sneak through a bunch of mobs.

Camo may only be useful if you pick a gathering profession though.

[Calantus]

10-11: Imp. Sinister Strike
12-16: Malice
17-18: Remorseless Attacks
19-21: Imp. Eviscerate
22: Relentless Strikes
23-25: Imp. Gouge
26-30: Precision

I'd put in MoD and Camo myself, just for the sheer amount of tedium it reduces while you are leveling and questing. you can always spec out of it at 70 when you decide to min-max your char to death but I'll take the points missing elsewhere vs waiting for my damn char to sluggishly sneak through a bunch of mobs.

Camo may only be useful if you pick a gathering profession though.

You only stealth at the very last moment you need to. What I usually do is run up right before the mob's aggro range, jump (this is so that you're still getting normal forward momentum for a bit when you stealth), and stealth while moving into them and hitting cheapshot. You're only taking a couple steps in stealth so camo isn't much of a help. As for MoD I've never seen the need in solo PVE. If you distract them you won't get seen and most of the time if you run straight into their face you can get the CS off even though they see you in stealth.

[Fraeg]

The alt-a-holic in me is acting up again, so i was wondering, what would any of you rogue's reccomend for a talent progression in the early levels.  I confess i know nearly nothing about how rogues work talent wize (though i do have a 70 mage and 70 druid, rogue talents are rather a mystery to me)

if you have spent any significant time in kitty form then rogue should feel natural to you, just more options for interrupts etc.

lots of good advice here, my 2 cents.  You level with the best weapons you have availible to you.  Now whether you just quest for weapons or if you are one of those people who farms like mad on his 70 main and buys all the hotass BoE items to make lvling as smooth as possible is another story.

in this day and age and given that you have 70s, leveling a rogue to 70 should be very very fast.  ogres are your friends seek them out.  if you are mining and engineering? then ogres are even better friends.