Help! Need new PC- stat!

[WayAbvPar]

So, my PC totally crapped out last night- grindy noises and beeps galore, with a total freezeup (not exactly ideal when playing in 2 poker tournaments at the same time). I suspect it is my HDD, but I don't know for sure.

The silver lining- my wife agrees that I need a new PC! With the release of HL2 and Vampire: Bloodlines, this couldn't come at a better time. Well, maybe last week, so I would already have my PC up and running.

I am probably going to see if the local Computer Stop can save the data from my hard drive (lots of iTunes, pics of my nephew and other folks, and porn that I can replace eventually; a database of 10s of thousands of poker hands that I likely cannot replace) and dump it onto my new system.

What I need from the peanut gallery is some advice on what components I need- CD or DVD? Video card? Who makes the best HDD now? Can I do this for ~$1k (without monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc)? Help!

[stray]

Get a Mac!

Seriously though, 1k should get you something good since you're leaving out the monitor etc..

Best bang for the buck on hard drives would be two SATA drives. Then run them in raid 0. I think Western Digital makes the fastest ones atm, but they're smaller than others. If you want more space, you'll still get good performance out of two 7200 rpm drives. I'm pretty happy with it.

As for the rest, I'd say get a DVD burner, AMD, NVidia, and an NForce MB. Can't go wrong with that, but I'm sure someone else has better advice. You might be able to afford an NForce3 and Athlon64 (along with everything else) with a $1000 limit, but not Athlon 64 FX.

[MrHat]

As for the rest, I'd say get a DVD burner, AMD, NVidia, and an NForce MB. Can't go wrong with that, but I'm sure someone else has better advice. You might be able to afford an NForce3 and Athlon64 (along with everything else) with a $1000 limit, but not Athlon 64 FX.

Here's what I'm looking at for my 2year upgrade cycle:

GIGABYTE "GA-K8NS Ultra-939" NVIDIA nForce3 ULTRA Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket 939 CPU -RETAIL  $116.00

AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512KB L2 Cache 939-Pin 64-bit Processor - OEM  $291.00

Giga-byte nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model "GV-N68T256DH" (Hardware monitoring) -RETAIL  $435.00

The vid card might be a bit much, in which case I would look at the recently released 6600 GT series (~$200).

Also, I have a shitty 250GB Western Digital drive that I got from Circuit City on sale for like $120 a while back.  It runs golden for me.

[trias_e]

I just have to post my hate of WD.  I had a WD 80 gig Special Edition drive crap out on me in about 7 months after buying it, and a friend of mine had the same thing happen in roughly a year.  I would suggest anything else other than WD, but thats just my personal bias.  Its possible I could have just gotten unlucky, or it was only that particular model that had problems.  Regardless, treat WD with caution.

[Morfiend]

If you are computer savvy, you can buy all your parts at http://www.newegg.com and get a great system for around 600-800 depending on how much you drop for a video card.

I had a friend spec out a system for me like this, and it came to around $800 with a copy of XP Pro. I have since added a better graphics card and more ram. (2gb now).

[Shockeye]

AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512KB L2 Cache 939-Pin 64-bit Processor - OEM  $291.00

Get a 3200+ instead. You can overlock it to 3500+ speeds without a problem and save some money.

[MrHat]

AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 512KB L2 Cache 939-Pin 64-bit Processor - OEM  $291.00

Get a 3200+ instead. You can overlock it to 3500+ speeds without a problem and save some money.

Not a fan of the overclocking.  My computer makes enough noise as it is.

Although, what's the price difference between the 32 and 3500's?

[sidereal]

Can I do this for ~$1k (without monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc)? Help!

Yes.  I just had my semi-annual upgrade and put together a bumpin system off of newegg for almost exactly 1k.

Case (this is hot, has a handle on the top for portability.  But a reset button on the top.  Don't plug this in if you have cats.  Fucking cats)
CASE ASIAPRO| H7650W BLU/SLV 450W (Serial#: 11-195-005/0)  $32.00
   
Mobo:
MB ASUS P4C800-E DELUXE CANTERWOOD $174.00
   
Proc:   
CPU P4/3.0CGHz 800M 478P/512K HT RT $223.00
   
RAM:
DDRAM 1GB KIT|DDR400 PC3200 -k RT $159.00

Floppy (they finally make these under $10):
FD 1.44MB|SAMSUG SFD-321B/LBL1 OEM $8.50

Drive:
HD 200GB| SEAGATE 7200 ST3200822AS% $128.50

DVD Burner:
DVD+/-RW|TOSHIBA 8X SD-R5272 BLACK% $68.00

Add a couple hundred for a middle-end DX9 compatible video card (I already had one), and you're in.

I highly, highly recommend that motherboard.  It has onboard GigE, surround sound audio, and whatever else you need.  If it weren't for my video capture card, I would be using 0 PCI slots.

Do NOT buy Maxtor drives.  I have never bought one that lasted more than 6 months.   Never had a problem with a Seagate.

[Kenrick]

I just checked to see how much the PC I built off of newegg back in july for ~$1200 is going for now... and it's now considerably under $1k.  *sigh*

My $928.75 PC

EDIT:  Wait, scratch that.  For some reason some of the components are missing, ie. dvdrw drive.  But if that's the only piece missing, which I think it is, that's still just around $1K.

[sidereal]

Hey, Kenrick stole my computer.

[Kenrick]

Hey, Kenrick stole my computer.

Not completely. :)

I have my 3.2 prescott overclocked to 3.5 without any problems.

I guess the first thing I'll need to upgrade is the video card (next year...).

While we're on the subject -- does anyone know if my computer would run any better in XP Pro than XP Home?

[Viin]

While we're on the subject -- does anyone know if my computer would run any better in XP Pro than XP Home?

I don't think so. I use Pro at work and Home at home, but I don't really notice a difference. Pro is better for MS Domains/networks, but other than that I don't really see a difference. I'm not even sure you can login to a Windows Domain with Home. But who has a PDC on their home network? :)

[Krakrok]

For only $200 I'd go with the nVidia 6600 GT instead of the 6800 GT.

Benchmarks

[WayAbvPar]

I think the 6600 is probably what I am leaning toward to save a couple of hundred bucks.

How about cases? Any thoughts? I don't need anything that looks like a rocket ship ; just functional.

Also- Intel or AMD?

I am looking at Computer Stop, since there is a local B&M store I who can likely do my data transfer and build the system for me (I have neither the space nor the inclination to build it myself when I can pay $40 to get it done). I don't see some of the choices there that have been mentioned above (the case in particular). They also don't seem to have the Nvidia cards, although I bet they have them in stock.

[MrHat]

For only $200 I'd go with the nVidia 6600 GT instead of the 6800 GT.

Benchmarks

Read that this morning too.

The big difference is that they compare the 6600 GT to the 6800 stock.  The 6800 GT runs considerably faster than the 6600, I think it's like 30% faster.

Whether or not that's worth the extra $200 is questionable though.

[sidereal]

I generally go AMD and so does my hardware guy, but this time he said he just couldn't in good conscience recommend them.  Intel wins this generation.

I'm running on a Radeon 9600SE (~$100 these days) and everything looks fine.  Buying even 2nd generations graphics hardware is insane.  By the time games are out that actually know how to use it, it's in the budget bin.

[stray]

XP Pro and XP Home are the exact same operating system underneath. Pro has additional tools for managing networks, multiple users, remote PC's, backups, and encryption, but as far as performance differences go, they're the same thing.

[Disco Stu]

I generally go AMD and so does my hardware guy, but this time he said he just couldn't in good conscience recommend them.  Intel wins this generation.

Intel won the last generation. The AMD 64 is much better bang for your buck than the P4 E.

[Trippy]

Oh goodie, another hardware thread.

Unfortunately things are still kind of unsettled in the hardware market, and have been since Summer when all the new technologies were introduced but since then have only been slowly trickling onto the market.

In terms of AMD vs Intel, for game playing the A64 is clearly a far better CPU both in terms of absolute performance and performance per dollar spent. Here's just one of many sets of benchmarks showing the A64 beating the stuffings out of the P4 in games:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=10

The problem with the A64 right now is there are no PCI Express motherboards on the market yet (though it is coming Real Soon Now). While this isn't a problem if you can either live with a top end video card (X800, 6800) or the last generation top end card (9800, 5900) all of which are available in AGP versions, the current generation mid-range cards (X700, 6600) are only currently available in PCI Express versions. This means if you need a new computer *now* and you want a PCI Express card you'll have to get a new generation Intel motherboard (aka Socket 775). On the other hand, if you do go PCI Express you can't get most of the top end video cards in PCI Express versions yet (the only one I've seen is the X800 XT PE which is like $700) so you are kind of screwed in both directions right now.

In terms of hard drives, the Maxtor MaXLine III is the new 7200 RPM desktop performance leader. You can read a review of the drive at www.storagereview.com:

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200410/200410087B300S0-2_1.html

Though I haven't used that particular drive, I do use Maxtor drives in all my computers having moved away from IBM drives after the "Deathstar" fiasco. They might not be quite as fast as the WD SE drives but they are a hell of a lot quieter, though the newest WD SE drives now use FDB bearings as well. If noise is a major concern, you might want to check out the Samsung line of drives. Those offer very good performance and are the quietest 7200 RPM drives on the market.

Here's a recent roundup of dual layer DVD burners to help you decide what to get:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2260

As is the case for most PC components, the prices on these things have come down a lot so you shouldn't have trouble squeezing one in on your budget.

One recommendation I have is to make sure you can expand your memory past 1 GB if you aren't already planning on having more than 1 GB initially. Games these days are huge memory hogs and 1 GB is simply not enough memory to keep many games from swapping. So for example if your motherboard has 4 memory slots *don't* get 4 256 MB DIMMs since you'll have to toss some of them later if you want to expand your memory.

For cases I like Antec's line. Nothing fancy but well made. You can read reviews of some their stuff on www.silentpcreview.com:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/section11.html

Finally here's some recommendations from AnandTech on systems for around $1200 (but they include a $274 monitor and $53 speakers):

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2250&p=13

However, those systems skimp on the video card.

EDIT: There is a 6600 GT AGP card you can buy now:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-150-080&depa=1

It's even in stock, amazingly enough. Unfortunately it only has 128 MB of RAM and you really need 256 MB of RAM for the newest game engines.

[Lanei]

XP Pro and XP Home are the exact same operating system underneath. Pro has additional tools for managing networks, multiple users, remote PC's, backups, and encryption, but as far as performance differences go, they're the same thing.

Add using networks to managing networks to this, and its basically right.
XP home CANNOT log on to a domain of any type, it just doesn't know how.  Associated authentication features, like advanced encryption types (smart cards, etc) are also similarly missing.  
XP Home does support multiple users, just doesn't set it up by default, it does know about priviledged vs nonpriviledged accounts, but all users are administrators by default.

[Shavnir]

For roughly $1400ish you can get a dual Xeon system.  They now have motherboards out that have twin Xeon slots and PCI-E, and run about $340.

Then throw in two 2.8gHz HT Xeons...about $250 a pop.  Some nice heatsink / fans for about $40ish...

Of course this is a good $800 spent without drives, video card or case though :/  And expect to spend a bit more on a power supply.  But the option is there (even if schild will make fun of you for it :P )

[Alkiera]

XP Pro and XP Home are the exact same operating system underneath. Pro has additional tools for managing networks, multiple users, remote PC's, backups, and encryption, but as far as performance differences go, they're the same thing.

Add using networks to managing networks to this, and its basically right.
XP home CANNOT log on to a domain of any type, it just doesn't know how.  Associated authentication features, like advanced encryption types (smart cards, etc) are also similarly missing.  
XP Home does support multiple users, just doesn't set it up by default, it does know about priviledged vs nonpriviledged accounts, but all users are administrators by default.

The only performance related difference is that XP Home doesn't do multi-processor machines...  You need XP Pro to run dualies, and maybe to use HT on those P4 chips that have it, I'm not sure.  If you're using a single-chip AMD solution, and don't use a Domain Server on your home network, you should be okay with Home.

Alkiera

[WayAbvPar]

The problem with the A64 right now is there are no PCI Express motherboards on the market yet (though it is coming Real Soon Now). While this isn't a problem if you can either live with a top end video card (X800, 6800) or the last generation top end card (9800, 5900) all of which are available in AGP versions, the current generation mid-range cards (X700, 6600) are only currently available in PCI Express versions. This means if you need a new computer *now* and you want a PCI Express card you'll have to get a new generation Intel motherboard (aka Socket 775). On the other hand, if you do go PCI Express you can't get most of the top end video cards in PCI Express versions yet (the only one I've seen is the X800 XT PE which is like $700) so you are kind of screwed in both directions right now.

Aha! No wonder I can't customize an AMD system with the 6600 on any of these damned sites! I kind of had my heart set AMD/PCI Express, but I obviously get to re-think that now (or wait, which isn't really an option). If I have to choose one or the other, which will give me more bang for my buck? I am leaning toward a midrange card like the 6600, unless I can find a 6800 at a decent (>$350) price.

[Trippy]

Aha! No wonder I can't customize an AMD system with the 6600 on any of these damned sites! I kind of had my heart set AMD/PCI Express, but I obviously get to re-think that now (or wait, which isn't really an option). If I have to choose one or the other, which will give me more bang for my buck? I am leaning toward a midrange card like the 6600, unless I can find a 6800 at a decent (>$350) price.

Well if you had your heart set on AMD & PCI Express, Gigabyte is coming out with a Socket 939 PCI Express motherboard as you can read in this review (this was my reference to Real Soon Now):

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2273

but that won't work if you need a computer yesterday. If you want to stick with AMD you do have the choice of a 6600 GT AGP card as noted in my edit above and here's a review of a similar card:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2277&p=1

You can get a 6800 GT card for less than $350 as seen here:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-177&depa=1

but that one only has 128 MB RAM. The 256 MB models are ~$400 and up. Assuming the 6800 GT tested in the AnandTech review above is an 256 MB model, then the 6600 GT will give you roughly 80% of the performance of the 6800 GT at roughly 60% of the cost so it definitely has the better FPS per dollar ratio.

[Dark Vengeance]

I just wanted to add that computers are good. You guys are smart. Beyond that I have nothing useful to contribute to this conversation.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

[Bunk]

I agree with Trippy on the Antec cases.  My new system is in an Antec SLK2650. No fancy windows or lights, but an easy install, front mounted usb, and it includes an Antec 350W PS for under $100.

[Nebu]

I agree with Trippy on the Antec cases.  My new system is in an Antec SLK2650. No fancy windows or lights, but an easy install, front mounted usb, and it includes an Antec 350W PS for under $100.

My question would be about power supplies.  The recent iteration of video cards all recommend higher wattage power supplies.  What size supply are most of you considering (recommending) for those of us building new systems.  Is 400W enough? 450W?

[Morfiend]

Another thing to look for in a case, is wether it comes with a powersupply or not. I got one that came standard with 4 fans, and a 420w power supply for like $60. Where as some cases come with no fans and no power supply and can run around $100+ then adding $25-45 for power supply and like $6 for each fan, you have spent a lot more.

I got a gigabyte board, and it has 6 slots for RAM. The onyl strange thing is I ahve 4 of the 6 filled up, and SiSoft Sandra says all my ram slots are full. I also have a northwood core p4 3.2, the prescott can run REALLY hot, and with a big graphics card, heat can be nasty in some of the single fan cases. I have since added one more fan to get really nice air in take/out take. My system idles at around 90 degrees (I think, cant remember) and adds about 4 to 5 degrees when under really heavy load.

[MrHat]

Another thing to look for in a case, is wether it comes with a powersupply or not. I got one that came standard with 4 fans, and a 420w power supply for like $60. Where as some cases come with no fans and no power supply and can run around $100+ then adding $25-45 for power supply and like $6 for each fan, you have spent a lot more.

I got a gigabyte board, and it has 6 slots for RAM. The onyl strange thing is I ahve 4 of the 6 filled up, and SiSoft Sandra says all my ram slots are full. I also have a northwood core p4 3.2, the prescott can run REALLY hot, and with a big graphics card, heat can be nasty in some of the single fan cases. I have since added one more fan to get really nice air in take/out take. My system idles at around 90 degrees (I think, cant remember) and adds about 4 to 5 degrees when under really heavy load.

Noise?

[stray]

Unless you're overclocking, running multiple CPU's, or multiple hard drives, 400w is good enough for most people. Even 350w. Not all power supplies are made equal though. Sometimes wattage doesn't mean anything. Sort of. The wattage will be high, but they'll screw you on the rails. Check for the number of amps @12v. For newer CPU's, newer vidcards, etc., the safest thing is to get anything around 18-30 amps on the 12v rail...Or you could just buy Antec or EnerMax. Doesn't hurt.

[Riggswolfe]

What is a good sound card? Is the latest incarnation of Soundblaster still considered the best? The audigy maybe?

[stray]

The audigy maybe?

Yeah, I guess so, as far as gamer/consumer audio is concerned. But if you get an nForce, you won't notice a difference. Plus it comes with a free motherboard. What a deal!

[Trippy]

My question would be about power supplies.  The recent iteration of video cards all recommend higher wattage power supplies.  What size supply are most of you considering (recommending) for those of us building new systems.  Is 400W enough? 450W?

Like stray said it depends a lot on the individual characteristics of the power supply -- the overall power rating is actually only a rough indication of how much "stuff" a power supply can handle. This is because individual components that make up a PC system need power at different voltages. For example, CPUs need power at +12V, hard drives need power at +12V and +5V, RAM needs power at +3.3V and so on. A power supply's wattage rating is the sum of the power it can provide on all of its lines combined but that single number doesn't tell how much power it can provide on each of its separate voltage lines -- you have to look at the detailed specs to find that out (assuming it's provided at all). This can mean, for example, that even with a 450W power supply you may not get enough power on, say, the +12V line to power a top-end CPU, a stack of hard drives, and a video card that requires a power connector. Conversely, the dinky 240W power supply in the Shuttle SN95G5 XPC is able to power an Athlon64 3800+, 1 GB RAM, ATI X800XT, and two WD Raptor 10,000 RPM hard drives as you can see in this review at HardOCP.

[Trippy]

Another thing to look for in a case, is wether it comes with a powersupply or not. I got one that came standard with 4 fans, and a 420w power supply for like $60. Where as some cases come with no fans and no power supply and can run around $100+ then adding $25-45 for power supply and like $6 for each fan, you have spent a lot more.

Many of the power supplies that come bundled with cases are crap, as I explain in my post above this one, so you need to be very careful if want to buy such a thing.

I got a gigabyte board, and it has 6 slots for RAM. The onyl strange thing is I ahve 4 of the 6 filled up, and SiSoft Sandra says all my ram slots are full.

Having 6 slots is a special "hack" Gigabyte came up with -- it's not something that's normally supported by the Intel chipset. So Sandra probably doesn't recogonize the fact you have 2 free slots since it's a non-standard design.

[Trippy]

What is a good sound card? Is the latest incarnation of Soundblaster still considered the best? The audigy maybe?

Audigy is still the higher-end standard (Live! would be the low-end). Most "enthusiast" motherboards these days have on-board audio which may be sufficient for your needs.