WotLK

[Lakov_Sanite]

My guild got server first kel thuzad in the 25man so some first hand.(yay for no life?)

~rogues are usually in the top five dps

~our moonkin is number one in dps usually with me a close second (spriest)

~druid tanks are a LOT better out the door at 80 since they can defense cap through talents.

~warlock dps is sorely lacking it seems but they bring a lot of utility. Running a raid without summons SUCKS, especially is someone dies in a gauntlet area or falls off a ledge etc.

~raiding guilds already sunwell geared won't have trouble with the fights but these bosses are harder than karazhan level if you're in 80 blues so this won't be content most people race through.

~I have much more fun in tight knit 10man than 25mans and the gear level difference is negligible.

[Azazel]

Did you give up drinking or is there some other reason you've decided to just be a huge prick for the last few months? Get laid, douchey.

He seems to be agreeing with you, and you're jumping down his throat? I don't get it?

[Chimpy]

I never thought I would say it but:

Volley is now the best spell ever.

Even before my LOL upgrade my ranged weapon 2 times in one Naxx timer weekend, I was able to put out retarded DPS by just using volley on any pack with 2 or more mobs in it.

Our guild has 0 shaman right now. I think the majority of the "OMG SHAMANS" burning crusade people all rolled DKs or something, I rarely see many on.

On a side note, still using several blue pieces/my Hyjal ring and not having really any good gems or the best enchants, I am now over 5k AP with AI/Mark/Kings/Might on my hunter. I am guessing with just heroic/10 man naxx loot I will be able to break 6k AP.

[Ingmar]

So I worked counterclock wise through Howling Fjord and I only have 77/105 quests in the area and I've done all the instance quests.  Same thing with BT and I'm 134/150.

I don't get it.

There are rather a lot of quest chains that start/continue off of dropped objects - you may have missed some of those. Did you do all the walrus guy quests?

[SurfD]

~druid tanks are a LOT better out the door at 80 since they can defense cap through talents.

Do you have an armory link for the druid tank you raid with?  Just interested in comparing gear between him and me.  I still feel very squishy compared to how i used to be PRE bc.  I went from near max physical mitigation (like 31k armor if healing buff to armor procced) and 55% dodge in full raid buffs to around 22k armor and struggling to get 43% dodge in full raid buffs.

I now routinely run into warriors who have more Armor then i do, and better mitigation through parry / Block / improved defensive stance, and it makes me cry.

[DraconianOne]

There are rather a lot of quest chains that start/continue off of dropped objects - you may have missed some of those. Did you do all the walrus guy quests?

There aren't that many in HF or BT but here - with obvious spoiler disclaimers - is a list of all dropped items that begin quests.

[Lakov_Sanite]

~druid tanks are a LOT better out the door at 80 since they can defense cap through talents.

Do you have an armory link for the druid tank you raid with?  Just interested in comparing gear between him and me.  I still feel very squishy compared to how i used to be PRE bc.  I went from near max physical mitigation (like 31k armor if healing buff to armor procced) and 55% dodge in full raid buffs to around 22k armor and struggling to get 43% dodge in full raid buffs.

I now routinely run into warriors who have more Armor then i do, and better mitigation through parry / Block / improved defensive stance, and it makes me cry.

now granted he's gotten a lot of gear in the last couple weeks but as soon as we hit 80 he tanked 10man naxx without issue.  fully raid buffed hit can hit 41k hp.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackwater+Raiders&n=Truebeast

[Rasix]

So I worked counterclock wise through Howling Fjord and I only have 77/105 quests in the area and I've done all the instance quests.  Same thing with BT and I'm 134/150.

I don't get it.

There's a few pockets of quests that are very easy to miss, especially in Borean.  Skip over a single dude with a ! over his head and you can miss large chains.

A few that I can think of in Borean:

-The rock quary quests.  Probably about 8 or so quests over 2 quest givers. Probably ran into them doing the DHETA quests. 
-Moth/kobold quests right outside of the horde starter area.
-There are 3 sets of walrus dude quests in different locations, make sure you've done all of them.
-Make sure you haven't skipped the Borgorok outpost quests.
-There's a few quests at the Amber Ledge, but I assume you did them as they lead up to the Nexus line of quests.

Working on Howling Fjord right now.  I really don't care for the flow of it so far.  It just takes you all over the place and there's a decent amount of running back and forth for just a few quests. It's nice that I can solo the 3 man group stuff pretty easy.

[Draegan]

So I worked counterclock wise through Howling Fjord and I only have 77/105 quests in the area and I've done all the instance quests.  Same thing with BT and I'm 134/150.

I don't get it.

There are rather a lot of quest chains that start/continue off of dropped objects - you may have missed some of those. Did you do all the walrus guy quests?

In BT?  Yes.

[Draegan]

So I worked counterclock wise through Howling Fjord and I only have 77/105 quests in the area and I've done all the instance quests.  Same thing with BT and I'm 134/150.

I don't get it.

There's a few pockets of quests that are very easy to miss.  Skip over a single dude with a ! over his head and you can miss large chains.

Speaking of HF, I found that sprite person up north, the taurens in the excavation pit, and that treant in the burning tree area in the south.  The only area I may be missing something is in the SE portion of the zone.

I'll check later tonight I think, then go look around BT for anything I might of missed.

[Rasix]

Did you do the Walrus guy quest that starts off near the Ancient lift? It's one quest that leads to at least 10+.

[Venkman]

What's the situation with Mages? I still love mine and have no plans to change, but the huge boost we got in BC power-wise (from 60-70 anyway) doesn't seem to have translated to a similar boost in WotLK.

[Fordel]

Arcane mages are ridiculous for PvP currently. That's about all I know for certain.

[Merusk]

What's the situation with Mages? I still love mine and have no plans to change, but the huge boost we got in BC power-wise (from 60-70 anyway) doesn't seem to have translated to a similar boost in WotLK.

Good question.  I don't see mages a lot anymore, even in my PUGs.  It's all been locks, hunters and ret pallies w/ druid tanks.  Hell, I've grouped with more rogues than mages so far, which is just plain odd since nothing gets CC'd, it's all AOE'd.

[Venkman]

I feel like a "lot of people"* gave up on Mages because they weren't all that for PvP in BC and started to become less relevant in later BC raid zones. It's also easier nowadays to follow the fotm train because of the faster leveling. And then there's the need for Blizzard to sell WotLK boxes so why wouldn't they a) make DKs the preeminent class befitting their "hero" label; and, b) give some much needed love to classes that weren't so much so prior.

I have seen all of two other Mages since stepping into Borean Tundra.

Totally separate question: is Howling Fajourd (/mikemeyers) a very different user experience from Borean Tundra or just different textures? I'm thinking of when I get my DK up that way.

* In my extremely deep pantheon of insights from my single guild of my single faction of my single server, and then only at my primetime every other day or so when I feel like logging in to largely solo anyway

[Paelos]

Did you give up drinking or is there some other reason you've decided to just be a huge prick for the last few months? Get laid, douchey.

He seems to be agreeing with you, and you're jumping down his throat? I don't get it?

I was, but I was also pointing out how it was an outright certainty given Blizzard's design choices before the expansion even released. There simply were no other options than less healers when they removed a viable healing class tree.

Also, if you are having trouble finishing up the quest requirements in a certain area, make sure to check the unexplored portions of your map, or the surrounding large islands. Also, check any places on your map that uncovered themselves in large bulk areas. Lastly, MMO Champion added a compilation of all the quest item drops per area and by monster. Those usually start large quest chains. Here's that link: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=833

[Draegan]

I lead a group through UK last night with two mages.

[Paelos]

I feel like a "lot of people"* gave up on Mages because they weren't all that for PvP in BC and started to become less relevant in later BC raid zones. It's also easier nowadays to follow the fotm train because of the faster leveling. And then there's the need for Blizzard to sell WotLK boxes so why wouldn't they a) make DKs the preeminent class befitting their "hero" label; and, b) give some much needed love to classes that weren't so much so prior.

I have seen all of two other Mages since stepping into Borean Tundra.

Totally separate question: is Howling Fajourd (/mikemeyers) a very different user experience from Borean Tundra or just different textures? I'm thinking of when I get my DK up that way.

* In my extremely deep pantheon of insights from my single guild of my single faction of my single server, and then only at my primetime every other day or so when I feel like logging in to largely solo anyway

Howling Fjord is far and away the better zone compared to Borean. It's not as ugly, the quests have a Norse feel, it's more focused on the Vykrul lore, and I found it more fun. Also, the UK instance was right out the front door.

I also have 4 mages I run 5 mans with regularly, and they don't seem all that different to me. They aren't topping the meters all the time, but they still have a ton of utility with sheeps, tables, ports, AE, freezes, slows, and solid ranged DPS on bosses that do whirlwinds and cleaves.

[Rasix]

Totally separate question: is Howling Fajourd (/mikemeyers) a very different user experience from Borean Tundra or just different textures? I'm thinking of when I get my DK up that way.

You're going to want to hit BT first for the easily obtainable, blue weapon reward.  Should be miles better than anything you're exiting BC with.

HF starts off with the undead and has some humorous quest lines about the new plague. HF is somewhat bothersome to navigate and the quest areas seem to be more spread out and fewer quests per area.  The overall lore and narative seem to be a bit tighter in HF as opposed to BT. I would definitely hit up the walrus guy near the Ancestral Lift as it leads to a great series of pirate quests.  Overall, the quests seems to be easier in HF also.

[Phred]

I agree about the heroics as the main reason they wouldn't release more badge types. Blizzard wants people to be able to obtain gear through 5 man content. Not all the gear, but some.

They also want there to be a reason to do heroics 2 years from now like there was in BC.

[Phred]

Totally separate question: is Howling Fajourd (/mikemeyers) a very different user experience from Borean Tundra or just different textures? I'm thinking of when I get my DK up that way.

I personally prefer the quests and flow of questing in the Fjord over the Tundra. I mentioned this in a guild instance group last night and didn't get much objection, just a lot of agreement. Whoever said the quests send you all over the place, I found most any quest that required more than 1000yds of travel to provite transportation in some form. Mostly NPC's ferrying you around. I leveled my main up through the tundra and since then 2 alts through the Fjord and don't plan on any more of my alts doing the Tundra unless I get really bored. There is enough content in all zones you really don't need to duplicate or overlap questing in them, and from what I saw, both zones actually seem to slow the 70-71 leveling a bit by having a lot of 68-70 mobs in the lower ends.

[Montague]

Totally separate question: is Howling Fajourd (/mikemeyers) a very different user experience from Borean Tundra or just different textures? I'm thinking of when I get my DK up that way.

I personally prefer the quests and flow of questing in the Fjord over the Tundra. I mentioned this in a guild instance group last night and didn't get much objection, just a lot of agreement. Whoever said the quests send you all over the place, I found most any quest that required more than 1000yds of travel to provite transportation in some form. Mostly NPC's ferrying you around. I leveled my main up through the tundra and since then 2 alts through the Fjord and don't plan on any more of my alts doing the Tundra unless I get really bored. There is enough content in all zones you really don't need to duplicate or overlap questing in them, and from what I saw, both zones actually seem to slow the 70-71 leveling a bit by having a lot of 68-70 mobs in the lower ends.

Yeah, at HF make sure to actually read the quest text. I didn't on my paladin and quickly got frustrated with the endless riding around. Did it again on my priest and saw the part about talking to NPC's and flying to the quest points. Whoops.

I liked Borean Tundra. The elder quests from the Easter Island statues got a little annoying simply because the relic guys there have such a quick respawn time, but the Thassarian quest line was pretty good. I like how they're integrating the Lich King into many of the levelling quests to make a more coherent narrative.

No major complaints about WOTLK to this point, having loads of fun. The hardcore tears on the General Forums about how easy the game is are especially tasty.

[Soln]

I feel like a "lot of people"* gave up on Mages

yup here too.  What's the latest?  Just a wait-and-see for a few months till they are patched? 

[Draegan]

I liked Borean Tundra. The elder quests from the Easter Island statues got a little annoying simply because the relic guys there have such a quick respawn time, but the Thassarian quest line was pretty good. I like how they're integrating the Lich King into many of the levelling quests to make a more coherent narrative.

Ooooh I missed those.  Nice.  Gonna get to this tonight.

[K9]

The wowhead.com zone maps (e.g. Howling Fjord) have a drop-down menu above the map that shows the location of all quest givers for either side. This might help you.

[Lantyssa]

Did they ever implement the two talent specs per character?  I haven't found it in the few days I've been playing the BC return "trial", so I wasn't sure if it was a Lich King thing, still in the works, or dropped completely.

[Mazakiel]

It's still in the works. 

[Rasix]

One of the things I really, really want, yet fear will never come.  I've never once been asked out of the blue or invited in to a group yet in WOLK for DPS.  Everyone wants me to be resto. I'd like to get groups, but I'm not leveling as resto.  I just don't have that much time to watch mobs keel over exerting themselves trying to kill me.

[Paelos]

One of the things I really, really want, yet fear will never come.  I've never once been asked out of the blue or invited in to a group yet in WOLK for DPS.  Everyone wants me to be resto. I'd like to get groups, but I'm not leveling as resto.  I just don't have that much time to watch mobs keel over exerting themselves trying to kill me.

It's all about what happens at the top, really. Levelling without the dungeons is actually preferrable if you want to do it faster. I've found they really put the emphasis on questing rather than dungeon xp. There are a few good quests, but I always check the rewards. Just my two cents on that part of it.

The other part is how druids are going to be forced back into healing roles. They've taken away some of the dominance of the bear tank survivability, which in groups is ok but in raids would be a more OT role. Shamans are going to be in a similar place because from what I've understood, one of the DPS trees is extremely broken/unpopular right now. Pallys are never coming back as healers until some drastic changes are made to their tanking ability and/or healing issues. Priests are doing great healing with CoH atm, but that will probably be nerfed as it's made them too "one button" for Blizzard's taste.

[SurfD]

I prefer Fjord.  Seems to have Much more interesting / important lore going on.

Also, im not 100 % sure, but i think you NEED to do a few quests from New Agamand as horde if you intend to get the Wrathgate quest to open up, because one of them might be the questline / string that starts the whole chain of events.

[Gobbeldygook]

Also, im not 100 % sure, but i think you NEED to do a few quests from New Agamand as horde if you intend to get the Wrathgate quest to open up, because one of them might be the questline / string that starts the whole chain of events.

The quest from New Agamand to Venomspite is just a breadcrumb quest; you can get to that same step from Dragonblight.

---

There is no reason to think druids will be forced into healing roles any more than they are now, nor is there any reason to be gloomy about priests.  Let me refresh you on the Latest From GC (tm).

The Malygos Vortex is the kind of thing we have to do to challenge AE healing because otherwise groups can pretty much trivialize it. This is one of the reasons we think Wild Growth and Circle of Healing need to be nerfed. If those spells aren't so powerful, then vortex and similar moments don't have to be so intense either and we'll be able to nerf it if needed.

They are both in line to be nerfed.

[Ingmar]

The nerf has been on the table for a while now. 6 second cooldown is the likely form from what I understand. It still doesn't do anything to fix holy paladins.

[ghost]

What's the situation with Mages? I still love mine and have no plans to change, but the huge boost we got in BC power-wise (from 60-70 anyway) doesn't seem to have translated to a similar boost in WotLK.

Good question.  I don't see mages a lot anymore, even in my PUGs.  It's all been locks, hunters and ret pallies w/ druid tanks.  Hell, I've grouped with more rogues than mages so far, which is just plain odd since nothing gets CC'd, it's all AOE'd.

Sheep bot.

[Montague]

The nerf has been on the table for a while now. 6 second cooldown is the likely form from what I understand. It still doesn't do anything to fix holy paladins.

I'm wondering if Blizzard is reconsidering. Adding a cooldown is likely trivial and could have been hotfixed in if they really wanted to. What really should happen is COH gets its mana cost upped and Holy paladins get some sort of AOE heal or Bacon gets buffed. If I know Chilton, he's probably whining Holy Paladins will dominate 5's in Arena if they can AOE heal, as if that shit matters.

[Paelos]

The answer for why healing is fucked up is due to pvp without a doubt. I'm getting really really sick of it.