World of Tanks

[Merusk]

When my tier 10 heavy can go from 85% HP to dead with one arty hit, theres a problem.  IMO, arty should have been stopped at the Hummel level of damage.  The way its implemented is total bullshit with its satellite view of the battlefield.  Artillery was also primarily used against infantry, not tanks.

Field guns are for infantry, or if it's an SPG it's an assault gun.  Arty is used against fortified positions to soften them up or against armored units.    The point of SPGs are they're in the unit or area and can be brought to bear quickly and reposition quickly while aircraft aren't around.

SerB mentioned how the North American server identifies itself as this collective bunch with an insatiable need for dumb-downed gameplay compared to other servers (Asian players want more Pay2Win, for contrast. A golden Type 59 wasn't enough?).

Heh, this doesn't surprise me at all. 

[angry.bob]

260,000 to 320,000 experience to go from tier 7 to tier 8, tier 8 artillery should make a tank dissolve into hydrogen on a near miss. It's a brutal, brutal grind. And that's not even taking into account researching the tier 7 upgrades. Also, unless I'm wrong the only difference between a lot of the AT, SPG, and tank cannons are how high up in the air they point and the shell they use - especially the germans. No reason a Hummel shouldn't be able to point at you and shoot. Especially since they used pretty much the same chassis as a nashhorn.

[Strazos]

And remember that Arty is usually splitting most of their XP with the spotters. And they typically get crap XP on urban maps.

[Nebu]

How much XP is it to grind a tier 10 tank that gets 2 shot by said arty sitting in safety?  

Artillery gets me to quit this game more than bad players, foul mouthed jerks, and seal clubbers.  Particularly when I get one shot 20s after a match starts because some guy across the map won the lottery on a blind shot.  Played a match last night on a tier 3.  Top tank on each side was a tier 4 SPG.  It was absurd.

[kildorn]

Arty doesn't piss me off, it just seems like poor gameplay design. And yeah, the XP costs are stupid to grind it compared to other tanks.

[Simond]

Less pointless, repetitive whining about arty, more Phontoman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UubPFudZtw4

[Nebu]

It's not pointless. It makes me feel better, damnit!

[WayAbvPar]

How much XP is it to grind a tier 10 tank that gets 2 shot by said arty sitting in safety?  

Artillery gets me to quit this game more than bad players, foul mouthed jerks, and seal clubbers.  Particularly when I get one shot 20s after a match starts because some guy across the map won the lottery on a blind shot.  Played a match last night on a tier 3.  Top tank on each side was a tier 4 SPG.  It was absurd.

If you get hit twice by arty because you didn't move, you deserve to die. As for sitting is absolute safety- seriously, try playing arty for a few rounds. At least half my matches end without me even landing a shot because A) shit is hard to hit when it is moving, B) the arty guns (especially high tiers) are squirrelly as hell and always seem to land on the very outer edge of the reticle somewhere, C) after a lengthy queue I ended up on a map where it is fucking impossible to shoot anywhere (Port, Dragon Ridge, etc) and D) there are approximately 7 million scout tanks that everyone is grinding now and one or more of them inevitably get past my incompetent team and run circles around me, both spotting me for their arty and shooting me themselves. Playing arty is like a giant kick in the nuts 9 out of 10 matches.

[Brolan]

How much XP is it to grind a tier 10 tank that gets 2 shot by said arty sitting in safety?  

Artillery gets me to quit this game more than bad players, foul mouthed jerks, and seal clubbers.  Particularly when I get one shot 20s after a match starts because some guy across the map won the lottery on a blind shot.  Played a match last night on a tier 3.  Top tank on each side was a tier 4 SPG.  It was absurd.

If you get hit twice by arty because you didn't move, you deserve to die. As for sitting is absolute safety- seriously, try playing arty for a few rounds. At least half my matches end without me even landing a shot because A) shit is hard to hit when it is moving, B) the arty guns (especially high tiers) are squirrelly as hell and always seem to land on the very outer edge of the reticle somewhere, C) after a lengthy queue I ended up on a map where it is fucking impossible to shoot anywhere (Port, Dragon Ridge, etc) and D) there are approximately 7 million scout tanks that everyone is grinding now and one or more of them inevitably get past my incompetent team and run circles around me, both spotting me for their arty and shooting me themselves. Playing arty is like a giant kick in the nuts 9 out of 10 matches.

I have agree with this.  As arty you are at the mercy of your team like no other vehicle.  If they let scouts by, if they don't spot, if they can't protect themselves against enemy arty, if aren't smart enough to lure enemies into your field of fire, you are going to lose.

[Nebu]

If you get hit twice by arty because you didn't move, you deserve to die.

Not the case.  I've been killed running zig zag full speed in mediums.  I've been killed moving in british heavies (which are slow as fuck).  I ALWAYS move after being hit by SPG's.  ALWAYS.  About 60% of the time it just doesn't matter, particularly when 2-3 of them decide to zero in on you.

[WayAbvPar]

If you are in cover, it doesn't matter if 10 arties are shooting at you. If you aren't, it doesn't matter if it is only one and he is 4 year old playing on his dad's account. Arty takes the low hanging fruit- if you always let yourself get spotted and stay in the open, you will be a target. If you are always in cover or always moving unpredictably, they will go for something else (unless you are still the only thing spotted). Get Sixth Sense on your commanders- it will tell you when you are spotted before even the best arty can fully aim.

[angry.bob]

I have to echo the sentiment that you should try playing artillery, if for no other reason it's the best way to learn the "safe" spots on all the maps to be as not-artillery. But it will also drive home that the grass is not only less green over there, but there's a ton of dog shit mixed in with it too. On top of everything else the other guys mentioned, once you hit tier 5 you can count on getting countered by at least one enemy arty every time you fire.

[WayAbvPar]

That is my favorite activity as an arty, actually. Higher tier guys are cagey enough to move most of the time, but the imagined tears when you do connect make it all worthwhile.

[Simond]

This looks useful: http://www.tazilon.net/maps.html

[WayAbvPar]

Oh very cool!

[Nebu]

This looks useful: http://www.tazilon.net/maps.html

Awesome.  Thanks!

I have some studying to do!

[Gets]

Clan Wars is down until further notice.

I unlocked the Tiger H. Better late than never, I guess. I'm not really interested in the new trees, except I am thinking of selling my M103 and using the crew on the new US light/autoloader medium line. The M103's turret offers little advantage, in my opinion, because when face-hugging the cuppola in the middle is easy to hit and when getting shot from a distance all you have to do is angle a little and almost everyone at that tier can penetrate the sides of the large turret. I'd rather play a T30 if I'm supposed to avoid getting shot at anywhere else besides the mantlet, even though the T30 is an overall hit & miss experience. If I could exchange the M103 with an E-75 I'd do it in a heartbeat is what I'm saying.

I hear the new US line is pretty painful though thanks to light tank matchmaking. First the M7, an overall weak tank, then the T21, a tier VI that gets into tier IX games. I like the T20 a lot as I discovered it's versatility as a medium was really good, but I am bad at driving scout tanks and never learned the necessary survival skills for driving them.

But the light tanks can drift, and that is too awesome to pass up.

[Gets]

Pretty much my playstyle in GIF form right here

[Tmon]

I hear the new US line is pretty painful though thanks to light tank matchmaking. First the M7, an overall weak tank, then the T21, a tier VI that gets into tier IX games. I like the T20 a lot as I discovered it's versatility as a medium was really good, but I am bad at driving scout tanks and never learned the necessary survival skills for driving them.

But the light tanks can drift, and that is too awesome to pass up.

T21 wasn't terrible once I got used to it, it's not a scouting light tank.  Lay back and wait for the mid game and start cleaning up the wounded from the flanks and rear and/or exploit a gap to make a dash for arty.  Also take advantage of hull downs since it has pretty decent gun depression. The T71 is a little bastard that I liked so much I kept it after unlocking the T69.  The stock T69 is kind of weak but I suspect that once I unlock the top engine and gun it will become much more playable.

[Merusk]

Yeah, that's the biggest problem with the T21 from what I've seen. It's not a scouting tank but it'll get matched like it is so people bitch when they're at the bottom of the list consistently without noticing it's got a really good gun.   Too many people also try to play it like a scout instead of the mid-game destroyer it actually is.

I'm not enamored with the T71 at all.  Its slower than the French tanks and packs nowhere near the punch they do and only has marginally better armoring for the matches it gets put in to, but with the typical rubber-band-like vulnerability of American tank tracks.  Combined with the smaller magazine the tank has been a frustrating vehicle for me to try and learn.

[Mortriden]

If I could exchange the M103 with an E-75 I'd do it in a heartbeat is what I'm saying.

I have both tanks (M103 and E-75).  For me the M103 deals much more damage, due to the fire rate and the overall mobility of the tank.  The E-75 is much more "tank" like however.  With just a small amount of angling and always keeping in mind how vulnerable your lower GP is you can be a very effective bully tank.  I've noticed that both tanks are primary targets, but for different enemies.  The E-75 draws arty fire like a crazy, and most enemy tanks target the M103 pretty early on. 

[kildorn]

I hear the new US line is pretty painful though thanks to light tank matchmaking. First the M7, an overall weak tank, then the T21, a tier VI that gets into tier IX games. I like the T20 a lot as I discovered it's versatility as a medium was really good, but I am bad at driving scout tanks and never learned the necessary survival skills for driving them.

But the light tanks can drift, and that is too awesome to pass up.

T21 wasn't terrible once I got used to it, it's not a scouting light tank.  Lay back and wait for the mid game and start cleaning up the wounded from the flanks and rear and/or exploit a gap to make a dash for arty.  Also take advantage of hull downs since it has pretty decent gun depression. The T71 is a little bastard that I liked so much I kept it after unlocking the T69.  The stock T69 is kind of weak but I suspect that once I unlock the top engine and gun it will become much more playable.

The T69 is an oddball because the upgraded gun is simply more damage/hit with a smaller window to unload. This has lead a number of T69 drivers to prefer the smaller gun, though I did the whole thing with the upgraded one. The important thing to remember is that you can't unload and kill most targets, so you can't aggressively push with it. If anything, it makes an awesome midfield flank sniper. Fast, accurate, and can put out a decent amount of damage before running. But if you try and go head to head with an even tier medium you will get murdered waiting for a reload while the target is at half hp.

I finally elited it and enjoyed it, but I haven't bothered buying the T9. I have a T-54, and can't imagine anything is more fun than that at T9. The T71 will always be in my garage, as it's a murderous little scout tank. It's not strictly better than the 13-75, but it's got soft stats from hell.


As for the M103 vs E-75: I find the E-75 to be more of a pain to fight, but the 103 is pretty dangerous as is. Think of it as similar to the Conq: a squishy but mobile gun platform. It's not a heavy in the sense of taking a lot of fire to bring down, it's a heavy in the sense of bringing a very large stick to the fight.

[Merusk]

Yeah the M103 vids I've watched for strategy all say it's better as a sniper and flank damage dealer than attempting to do any sort of push.  Which sucks when you wind-up top tank so often as a Tier 9.

[Tmon]

I'm not enamored with the T71 at all.  Its slower than the French tanks and packs nowhere near the punch they do and only has marginally better armoring for the matches it gets put in to, but with the typical rubber-band-like vulnerability of American tank tracks.  Combined with the smaller magazine the tank has been a frustrating vehicle for me to try and learn.

The T71 has a very high cammo value so you can sneak up on people really well.  I usually use the speed to get some place that lets me light up avenues of approach and then after arty or other tanks have inflicted damage on the stuff I've lit up, I take my shots.  The key is to know that as soon as you shoot your cammo is going to be totally blown and you need to be getting out of the line of fire as fast as you can.  Late game I go into arty hunting mode and use my speed to flank and clean up the wounded.  It's also fast enough to haul ass back and break cap or switch sides easily if need be.  It is a horrible run and gun tank but if you can shoot from a halt you can pretty much guaranty a hit and thanks to the high pen you will normally do some damage.

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah the M103 vids I've watched for strategy all say it's better as a sniper and flank damage dealer than attempting to do any sort of push.  Which sucks when you wind-up top tank so often as a Tier 9.

Peek and poke for the win. Gun does plenty of damage, just gotta keep the sides and lower plate hidden and keep firing!

[Merusk]

Peek and poke never works out for me so I don't do it anymore on the heavies.  Seems I would always wind up the one guy trying to push so I'd get racked by the 3 enemies who decided "fuck it, we'll wait here and whittle this jackass down since his buddies are cowards."

That or I'd get tracked and wind up fodder for those 3 plus the arty and 2-3 TDs who now had me in their sights.

[WayAbvPar]

It is definitely situationally dependent. If there is more than 1 tank, I don't peek...I keep them spotted and wait for help. And then circle around and try to flank them.

[Furiously]

I'm not enamored with the T71 at all.  Its slower than the French tanks and packs nowhere near the punch they do and only has marginally better armoring for the matches it gets put in to, but with the typical rubber-band-like vulnerability of American tank tracks.  Combined with the smaller magazine the tank has been a frustrating vehicle for me to try and learn.

The T71 has a very high cammo value so you can sneak up on people really well.  I usually use the speed to get some place that lets me light up avenues of approach and then after arty or other tanks have inflicted damage on the stuff I've lit up, I take my shots.  The key is to know that as soon as you shoot your cammo is going to be totally blown and you need to be getting out of the line of fire as fast as you can.  Late game I go into arty hunting mode and use my speed to flank and clean up the wounded.  It's also fast enough to haul ass back and break cap or switch sides easily if need be.  It is a horrible run and gun tank but if you can shoot from a halt you can pretty much guaranty a hit and thanks to the high pen you will normally do some damage.

I've found both the 71 and 69 to be great late game tanks. The 71 could scout as required as well. The 21 is the real dog of the line.

[WayAbvPar]

And guess which one I just bought?  Having seen Furiously in his T69 makes the line seem worthwhile, so I can soldier through the T21. I fell for this same reasoning with the French mediums (Furiously and Engels were demons in their Tier 8 Lorraines....I didn't get one until they were Tier 9 and utterly nerfed all to shit), so buyer beware.

[Furiously]

And guess which one I just bought?  Having seen Furiously in his T69 makes the line seem worthwhile, so I can soldier through the T21. I fell for this same reasoning with the French mediums (Furiously and Engels were demons in their Tier 8 Lorraines....I didn't get one until they were Tier 9 and utterly nerfed all to shit), so buyer beware.

I'm still bitter they turned the Lorraine into such a pos. The gun on the 69 is pretty decent. It's not Lowe accurate, but you can still snipe with it.

[Tmon]

And it has better depression than the Lorraine so you don't have to sky line while you are sniping.

[WayAbvPar]

Stole this from the goon thread- someone put together data on the winrates of each side for the maps in 8.3. Makes me glad I turned off Assault and Encounter. Jesus.

[Furiously]

Stole this from the goon thread- someone put together data on the winrates of each side for the maps in 8.3. Makes me glad I turned off Assault and Encounter. Jesus.

I turned off encounters and assaults..... I won 9/10 games.... Coincidence??

[Abagadro]

Encounters are okay (although still bring out some retardation, i.e. rush the cap!) but assaults are just dire. I turned assaults off and been pretty happy. I've done companies that still have assaults on and with coordinated teams they aren't bad, but with 15 random retards they are terrible.

[kildorn]

I have more pug luck with assault than encounter. Assault at least funnels people in one direction. Encounter seems to confuse the shit out of everyone, and my team will pretty much all rush cap and leave me with one low tier scout to hold the flank.