The Elder Scrolls Online

[ajax34i]

working chat, grouping tools (e.g. dungeon finder), adequate inventory & storage, working guild tools, effective hack/bot prevention, serviceable customer service, questing system, crafting system, etc. etc.

These should be modules that should be available for licensing much like engines are.   Every dev house keeps reinventing how to make a car from scratch, when in fact the industry as a whole should move towards just doing the visual design and otherwise using prefabricated parts.  I guess nobody's fabricating parts though.

[Ingmar]

I simply don't buy the 'oh no they ruined the brand' angle. The number of Skyrim fans who were going to buy Elder Scrolls 6 but oh no now they're not because some MMO by another team sucked is not a population worth measuring.

[Falconeer]

TESO definitely has some qualities, things that can't be found in any other MMORPG.

I'm actually interested to hear what you think those qualities are. What does TESO do better than any other MMO, past or present?

As stated multiple times, the zones are huge and literally packed with content and built in a way that rewards exploring them. I can't think of any other game that takes this so seriously.

The quests themselves are pretty good and short of The Secret World I'd say they are to my memory the most pleasant to carry out if you choose to listen to the sound bits.
Character customization (not visual) is good too, with lots of trees and skill to pick skills from.
Finally, the visuals are great for a MMORPG.

These are the qualities. But I admit the only "unique" trait is the first one: exploration.

[Cyrrex]

I simply don't buy the 'oh no they ruined the brand' angle. The number of Skyrim fans who were going to buy Elder Scrolls 6 but oh no now they're not because some MMO by another team sucked is not a population worth measuring.

I think you are right about this.  But at the same time, if somehow Zenimax did divert money away from Bethesda in order to produce this turd, have they then significantly delayed the release of one of their better single player games (be it Elder Scrolls or Fallout related)?  Money invested in a huge shitty project like this is money that isn't be spent on something good.  That's bad for us, and it is bad for them.  What if something else comes along that make Elder Scrolls 6 redundant before it is ever released?  It could happen.

[Nebu]

These are the qualities. But I admit the only "unique" trait is the first one: exploration.

Which is their downfall if they're trying to make mainstream $$$.  Mainstream MMO gamers are achievers first, killers second, and explorers third.  Making a game with the reverse in mind guarantees you niche status. 

[Paelos]

I simply don't buy the 'oh no they ruined the brand' angle. The number of Skyrim fans who were going to buy Elder Scrolls 6 but oh no now they're not because some MMO by another team sucked is not a population worth measuring.

It's about resources, less about branding. But still, I think you're underestimating the damage that a bad game and a long layoff does to a series. Instead of pre-ordering, people play the wait and see game. The game then stands on it's own merits at that point.

I don't think it's a good idea to work to gain some goodwill back.

[Falconeer]

Yeah Nebu, especially because no matter how big and full of content they can make the world, it still takes one to two months to explore it all. After that, you are pretty much done with the game (and with their stupid monthly fee) if that's why you were liking it. That's why I tend to agree with whoever said this feels almost like a single player games. If you play it as a multiplayer game, there's better things out there or simply things as good as this. And if you play it as a solo game, there's absolutely RPGs out there. In both cases, it is not bad at all, it just doesn't seem to have great retention power for 2014 gaming habits.

[Fabricated]

Oh yeah, the console versions have been delayed 6 months or so now. Hrrm.

[Nebu]

Oh yeah, the console versions have been delayed 6 months or so now. Hrrm.

That's hilarious.  "Push this shit out on PC... those people are used to buggy crap". 

[Paelos]

There's no way the console versions release with a sub. If they release at all.

[Miasma]

It's extra annoying because the PC version has a lot of consolitis in it, probably all for nothing since I doubt it will ever see the light of day on a console.

[rk47]

For $20, eligible PC and Mac players will have the option to add a full, digital version of ESO on either the PS4 or the Xbox One with your character transfer(s), and another 30 days of included game time.

KEEP PLAYING GUYS

[koro]

"Character transfers"? Are the console and PC versions not sharing the MEGASERVER?

[Paelos]

This is one the hilarious fuckups I was waiting for.

HAVE NO FEAR EVERYONE! FOR A SMALL FEE YOU TOO CAN PLAY ON THE CONSOLES THAT HAVE BEEN DELAYED!

[01101010]

So does that $20 include the character transfer too or just the 30-day free on console for people that already paid for the game on PC? Or is that another fee? 

Man... I had no real interest in this game, but now I just have to play this when it goes F2P.

[Count Nerfedalot]

I don't think it's a good idea to work to gain some goodwill back.

I'm brain fried, but I'm sure there's either one too many or few negatives there? Or did I fall into the sarchasm?

[Ingmar]

I simply don't buy the 'oh no they ruined the brand' angle. The number of Skyrim fans who were going to buy Elder Scrolls 6 but oh no now they're not because some MMO by another team sucked is not a population worth measuring.

It's about resources, less about branding. But still, I think you're underestimating the damage that a bad game and a long layoff does to a series. Instead of pre-ordering, people play the wait and see game. The game then stands on it's own merits at that point.

I don't think it's a good idea to work to gain some goodwill back.

Oblivion and Skyrim came out a bit over 5 years apart from each other. Does anyone doubt they'll have 6 out by 2016? Or think that by 2016 anyone will even remember ESO? What percentage of Skyrim buyers even tried ESO to have an opinion on it?

[Rendakor]

This is the internet. You don't need to try something to have an opinion of it.

[Ingmar]

You do have to have heard of it. Only ~15% of Skyrim sales were on the PC (which still blows my mind.)

[rk47]

"Character transfers"? Are the console and PC versions not sharing the MEGASERVER?

No they do not.
So if anyone wants a half year headstart for the console version - you can pay additional $20 to play on PC and be eligible for transfer when the console is released and you get ONE MONTH SUB free.
WHAT A DEAL, FOLKS!?

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

[01101010]

"Character transfers"? Are the console and PC versions not sharing the MEGASERVER?

No they do not.
So if anyone wants a half year headstart for the console version - you can pay additional $20 to play on PC and be eligible for transfer when the console is released and you get ONE MONTH SUB free.
WHAT A DEAL, FOLKS!?

WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

The miracle patch?   

[Rendakor]

You do have to have heard of it. Only ~15% of Skyrim sales were on the PC (which still blows my mind.)

Prelaunch, a lot of my console-only friends were hyped for it with the expectation of Skyrim Online. I can't wait for their tears when the console versions release.

[Paelos]

Oblivion and Skyrim came out a bit over 5 years apart from each other. Does anyone doubt they'll have 6 out by 2016? Or think that by 2016 anyone will even remember ESO? What percentage of Skyrim buyers even tried ESO to have an opinion on it?

That's part of the reason I made the bet with you. I'm thinking they'll kill this to stop the confusion right when they're ready to launch the hype on their next real game.

[Venkman]

The last few pages feel like the same set of pages that have occured previously in this thread. But this one jumped out at me:

If you can't keep pace with the people at the front of the pack, then that's your problem, not theirs.

You will never, never, never, never, never be able to compete with a game that has been in continuous development for 13 years, by a team of hundreds, funded by hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from the original game, monthly subscriptions from millions of players, and four boxed expansions.

If you seriously expect an MMG at its launch to be comparable with WoW in its current state, with all those years and resources behind it...

Each MMO that comes out is up against every MMO that's already been out for however long each of them were. DAoC was up against the entirety of EQ to that point. Then CoX. SWG was up against the UO that had existed since the late 90s. WoW launched against the eighth expansion to EQ1 (which itself just launched its 20th...). GW2 was up against every fantasy MMO still live to that point. This is the challenge with any live service launching against any live server. Annualized one-offs don't need to worry about anything but the last game ensuring it was a proper ambassador for the next one.

But really, this is just semantics.

Players are not making comparisons between totality of offerings. They're inarticulately saying the current game sucks compared to the one they just left. For MMOs, statistically that probably means WoW.

It's not four expansions in WoW. It's just "I like dis stuff in WoW" vs "I'd like to like TESO but for the most part I don't, and my comparison baseline is WoW" (because, statistics).

Companies can do stupid things like say their game is up against WoW. Other companies do the smart thing by not making that comparison. But players will make the comparison. Asking them to be nicer or smarter about it is not the answer. Making a game that can stand up or at least carve out its own niche is.

TESO did neither.

[KallDrexx]

Um, we've got a looooong time for this to die before the next Elder Scrolls game comes out.  All indications point to Fallout being the next single player RPG from Bethesda so they'll have quite enough time for ESO to be a distant memory before they pull the brand out again.

[Shatter]

3 people in my guild tried it and all 3 have already stopped playing so I think that means I beat the game by not spending my money?

[Draegan]

I didn't hit level cap because I got into AA alpha, but this game was worth the cash for 3-4 weeks of fun. If I have to sit through a quest treadmill game, then ESO is probably the best one. Instead of collecting 10 bear asses or killing 15 mobs, you just go kill a boss and move on. It was better than most leveling games.

PVP was shit though.
Class system is probably the best out there with ArcheAge being close if not better (we'll see).

Game would of been better if they took out levels and just had you level up skills.

If you can find it on sale for $40, and you like MMO leveling with quests with an Elder Scrolls flavor, it's worth picking up.

[Cyrrex]

Well, that's just saying the same thing you could say about every MMO since WoW.  Do you like combat less fun than every single player game ever?  Check.  Do you like running meaningless quests for hundreds of hours?  Check.  Are you willing to make huge graphical sacrifices in order to get 50 other players on your screen whom you wish would go the fuck away?  Check.  Do you love everything about levels and loathe organic skill progression?  Check.  Do you dislike actual role-playing?  Check.  Do you like be constantly reminded that investing real world cash will make your character better?  Check.

MMOs will never be truly fun again, because of all of the above, in my opinion.  It is no longer possible.  Sometimes a particular feature of a game will mask the shortcomings for a while, but at the end of the day this genre is broken beyond repair.

[Draegan]

Well, that's just saying the same thing you could say about every MMO since WoW.  Do you like combat less fun than every single player game ever?  Check.  Do you like running meaningless quests for hundreds of hours?  Check.  Are you willing to make huge graphical sacrifices in order to get 50 other players on your screen whom you wish would go the fuck away?  Check.  Do you love everything about levels and loathe organic skill progression?  Check.  Do you dislike actual role-playing?  Check.  Do you like be constantly reminded that investing real world cash will make your character better?  Check.

MMOs will never be truly fun again, because of all of the above, in my opinion.  It is no longer possible.  Sometimes a particular feature of a game will mask the shortcomings for a while, but at the end of the day this genre is broken beyond repair.

Yay for you I guess. I like MMOs because single player games, for the most part, bore me. I like playing games with friends even if I'm not grouped with them.

[Cyrrex]

That's fair, but maybe that has more to do with the people than the game?  You could probably be having that same fun playing just about anything together.

I am generalizing, this doesn't necessarily apply to you specifically.  Some people will still find fun in these games, but that doesn't mean the genre is not in a terrible, terrible place.  It is a cash cow that is just about out of milk.

[Paelos]

MMO's aren't dead, it's just that not enough of them have started moving towards the single-player combat styles. A game like Destiny is going to do that, and probably open the floodgates of imitators.

[Cyrrex]

MMOs like TESO and its ilk are dying.  Changing the combat paradigm is something that has to happen...if Destiny does that (I know nothing about it), then it is doing something different as far as I am concerned.

[Signe]

I need a new MMO.  I'm so bored with everything offered right now.  Luckily, I love single player games, too, but I still need an MMO.  Preferably with a guild full of people I'm acquainted with or strangers who won't expect anything from me because they understand that I can't handle the stress of being responsible.  What I want, what I really, really want, is an MMO where talking smack and using horribly obscene language is acceptable.  I miss that.  I don't think ESO is for me at the moment.  

Also, Cyrrex said paradigm and implied that it's shifting.   

[Nebu]

I need a new MMO.  I'm so bored with everything offered right now.

This x 100.

[Draegan]

That's fair, but maybe that has more to do with the people than the game?  You could probably be having that same fun playing just about anything together.

I am generalizing, this doesn't necessarily apply to you specifically.  Some people will still find fun in these games, but that doesn't mean the genre is not in a terrible, terrible place.  It is a cash cow that is just about out of milk.

First don't assume what I could or couldn't find fun. Second, I like games that I can create builds, theorycraft and minmax stuff. That's typically MOBAs and MMOs. I usually like doing that with lots of other people. Even if I don't group with others, I do like playing in a shared space with others. That's pretty basic right there that a lot of people don't get.

Right now I'm playing AA because even though combat is terrible and the leveling is shitty questing, all the crafting, open world pvp, and other social dynamics of the game seem really really fun.