The Elder Scrolls Online

[Threash]

I have no problem paying 15 bucks a month, i just know i'll never come back to it once i stop. 

[Paelos]

I bounce in and out of WoW at will these days. I'm coming up on the end of my 3 months there and I probably won't resub until the next xpac. I find the only fun times to play now are at the beginning of an xpac for 3 months, and after the last patch for 3 months. The rest is just middling garbage that fixes most of the cockblocks.

[Triforcer]

Just to clarify, are the veiled criticisms from beta testers  coming from (a) people criticizing it as an MMO, or (b) people thinking "Wtf they say this is an Elder Scrolls game, but I can't use mods to modify all ga m eplay and other people are doing the same "save the world" quests as me! whatsupwiththat??"

As with the movie forum, it is always hard to tell if I am listening to generally sane people or cranks.

[Nebu]

Just to clarify, are the veiled criticisms from beta testers  coming from (a) people criticizing it as an MMO, or (b) people thinking "Wtf they say this is an Elder Scrolls game, but I can't use mods to modify all ga m eplay and other people are doing the same "save the world" quests as me! whatsupwiththat??"

As with the movie forum, it is always hard to tell if I am listening to generally sane people or cranks.

My personal stand is to just play anything that I'm interested in and judge for myself.  The opinions on these (and other) forums vary so wildly that it's hard to know if you're getting an objective review or just jaded commentary.  

I'll probably play this game when it releases if for no other reason than I enjoy the early arms race of any MMO. 

[Falconeer]

Personally, I am not emotionally involved with the Elder Scrolls saga. I like it, but I am not hardcore about it, so as long as it keeps the lore high and it stays different enough from cartoonish worlds, it is gonna sit right with me. What I am saying is that my personal expectations when it comes to "being Elder Scrolls" are low. I have one big gripe with what I've seen of the game so far, and it doesn't have to do with the lore, the feel, or my exhaustion with the genre. But it seems to be big enough to drive me away (so far).

[Draegan]

Once you extricate yourself from the hype chain, perpetrated as much by the fans as the developers, you stop being disappointed so often.  I understand why the guys with money are looking for the next WoW, but why does the average gamer care so much?  Are you also waiting for the next Twilight inspired romantic tween trilogy?  The next 6 year long dramatic television event?  The Cowboys to win the Super bowl?  Stop worrying whether or not a game is perfect and whether or not 10 million other people like it and just worry about whether or not you do.

Any post digging at the Cowboys is worth a quote.

[Draegan]

I really don't have a problem paying 15 a month. What REALLY bothers me about a subscription model is that I now know the moment I stop playing the game I am done with it forever, cause no I am not gonna resub and shell out 15 just to see if I like the new changes or if I still want to play that kind of game. And these days, knowing that, I feel much less interested in a game if it has a sub because I feel it's too much "all or nothing", "now or never". Case in point, Final Fantasy XIV: I wanted to play it, but considering the sub, I decided it was going just another game I play for the first two or three months (paying the sub) and then I leave it behind to never come back because of the sub wall.

The only way I play MMOs I used to play are when I get a free 1 week trial to come back (I usually don't last more than 4 hours) or when an expansion pack comes out for a really good one which is essentially WOW.

If I had time, I'd probably would of played through DDO's expansion.

[Threash]

Just to clarify, are the veiled criticisms from beta testers  coming from (a) people criticizing it as an MMO, or (b) people thinking "Wtf they say this is an Elder Scrolls game, but I can't use mods to modify all ga m eplay and other people are doing the same "save the world" quests as me! whatsupwiththat??"

As with the movie forum, it is always hard to tell if I am listening to generally sane people or cranks.

We can't really clarify anything :P

[Rokal]

Just to clarify, are the veiled criticisms from beta testers  coming from (a) people criticizing it as an MMO, or (b) people thinking "Wtf they say this is an Elder Scrolls game, but I can't use mods to modify all ga m eplay and other people are doing the same "save the world" quests as me! whatsupwiththat??"

Why does it have to be one or the other? 

[Bhazrak]

Just to clarify, are the veiled criticisms from beta testers  coming from (a) people criticizing it as an MMO, or (b) people thinking "Wtf they say this is an Elder Scrolls game, but I can't use mods to modify all ga m eplay and other people are doing the same "save the world" quests as me! whatsupwiththat??"

As with the movie forum, it is always hard to tell if I am listening to generally sane people or cranks.

Yes. 

Going from information not related to the beta weekend, they're making an MMO version of Elder Scrolls. That's typically a 180 of what Elder Scrolls games are already about. So who is a game like that supposed to attract, or better yet, who would stick with a game like that more so, MMO players or Elder Scrolls players? Pleasing both camps is going just end up pissing a good majority off. Most MMO players will flock to it and try out as it's thenextbigthing, undoubtedly get bored after a month or so and leave. And since we know it's your typical themepark style MMO, I don't see what's going to entice Elder Scrolls fans to stick around with it either.

[Senses]

Is it really that big a reach they'd make Elder Scrolls into an MMO?  And lets be fair, if its either a good Elder Scrolls game or a good MMO, it will be popular and profitable.  Whether or not its either of those is up for discussion, well maybe not yet, but you acting like they are morons to even try seems a bit naive.  Bad game does badly though, we can all agree on that.

[Ingmar]

Let's say as an art fan, I think it would be a good idea to combine Botticelli's Venus and the Mona Lisa. So, I cut them both in half and staple them together and hand them to you, and say "look at what I did!" Only I neglected to tape over the staple, so it stabs you in the hand, and as you bleed on the canvases, you notice that the part I cut out of the Mona Lisa was the smile and the part I cut out of Venus was Venus. You'd think I hadn't executed my idea very well, right?

[Cadaverine]

If someone made a mod for Skyrim that spawned hundreds of NPCs that ran around killing everything, and looting all of the chests, then you'd have a fair approximation of life in an MMO version of an Elder Scrolls game.

[Senses]

Let's say as an art fan, I think it would be a good idea to combine Botticelli's Venus and the Mona Lisa. So, I cut them both in half and staple them together and hand them to you, and say "look at what I did!" Only I neglected to tape over the staple, so it stabs you in the hand, and as you bleed on the canvases, you notice that the part I cut out of the Mona Lisa was the smile and the part I cut out of Venus was Venus. You'd think I hadn't executed my idea very well, right?

I'll simplify it even more.  If you shit in a bag and people say it smells good, the bag is going to sell.  Who cares why, how or what, you are going to make some money.

[Rendakor]

Is it really that big a reach they'd make Elder Scrolls into an MMO?  And lets be fair, if its either a good Elder Scrolls game or a good MMO, it will be popular and profitable.  Whether or not its either of those is up for discussion, well maybe not yet, but you acting like they are morons to even try seems a bit naive.  Bad game does badly though, we can all agree on that.

SWTOR was a pretty good KOTOR3, but a shitty MMO, and certainly wasn't profitable as a sub-based game.

[Senses]

Is it really that big a reach they'd make Elder Scrolls into an MMO?  And lets be fair, if its either a good Elder Scrolls game or a good MMO, it will be popular and profitable.  Whether or not its either of those is up for discussion, well maybe not yet, but you acting like they are morons to even try seems a bit naive.  Bad game does badly though, we can all agree on that.

SWTOR was a pretty good KOTOR3, but a shitty MMO, and certainly wasn't profitable as a sub-based game.

I'm pretty sure both of your statements are conjecture.

[Bzalthek]

And yet, completely accurate.

[Bhazrak]

In the search for more money it's not a dumb thing to try and maybe to some people the idea of Elder Scrolls as an MMO sounded pretty neat, but it felt very odd to me is all. MMOifying it is inherently limiting compared to anything Elder Scrolls games offer. I don't know if it's going to be different enough from other MMOs to warrant a good audience for it, especially with the subscription model which seems to be almost taboo now.

It's funny though, because while I type all this, I am pretty sure I am one of the weird ones who will end up buying and playing it, because I like the universe it's set in and will be able to enjoy it.

[Threash]

It is dumb when you had the perfectly valid option of simply making a new Elder Scrolls game with coop instead and printed money hats.

[Fabricated]

I don't think Bethesda had an aneurism when they decided to make an Elder Scrolls MMO; they just started it back when everyone was still -completely- retarded and still chasing the WoW dragon and they never bothered to look up from their desks to check the market until they had invested so much they felt pot committed to finish.

I think an Elder Scrolls MMO could work and be good/profitable; it's not a terrible idea, but the challenge to deliver it makes it a pretty risky proposition. I genuinely thought a Star Wars MMO set in the KOTOR timeline was a cool and completely workable idea; Star Wars without the weight of the original trilogy crushing it, and it's a perfectly big expandable world you can keep populating with cool new and old lore stuff. Pulling it off however? Yeah, we saw the result.

I was invited to the previous beta weekends (didn't do this last one) so I can't really say much more.

[Nebu]

This MMO would have been successful had it released 5 years ago.  Now... chasing the sub market requires a pretty spectacular delivery.  Watching SWTOR fail should serve as a reminder that producing a sub-based MMO is a long shot at best. 

[Triforcer]

Who is to say that planning for subs to fail isn't the point?  You release with subs, raking in box and collector edition sales and a few 6 and 12 (and lifetime?) subs. In 6 months or a year- oopsie!  Time to go f2p.  Can we be absolutely sure that the spreadsheet guys haven't determined that is optimal from a revenue perspective?

[Falconeer]

I honestly believe this game could have a moderate success without the monthly sub. But then again, when I say "moderate success" I am referring to about 500k - 800k players. Up to 1M. Problem is, that doesn't necessarily mean "success" to them since we don't know how much it cost them to produce it. Again, those figures are directly out of my ass, but I think they would be a fair possibility if this went the GW2 model. Monthly sub? I really don't think so.

EDIT: And yes, what Triforcer said. I am pretty sure they have the f2p plan ready for post-launch. Initial subbing is just for some extra cash while waiting for the f2p relaunch, with more patches, more content, more balancing, etc.

[Paelos]

I agree, the best case scenario is to scrap the project before they dump another year of development costs, salaries, and fees into a project that will do nothing but damage the brand. I seriously doubt that the game will recoup enough in 2013 to make up for the interval costs associated with the interim.

I stand by this opinion from 18 months ago.

[Lakov_Sanite]

This MMO would have been successful had it released 5 years ago.  Now... chasing the sub market requires a pretty spectacular delivery.  Watching SWTOR fail should serve as a reminder that producing a sub-based MMO is a long shot at best. 

SWTOR is free to play and still terrible, subscription had nothing to do with it.

[Nebu]

SWTOR is free to play and still terrible, subscription had nothing to do with it.

I know you are aware of the number of boxes SWTOR sold at release, so I will assume you're just trolling.

[Falconeer]

Character Progression video.

[Ingmar]

So I guess since it's in the video, I can talk about one of the things I really hate: the off-to-the-side 3rd person view. It's motion-sickness inducing because of how it draws my eyes off to the side all the time, and it kind of sucks that the alternative is 1st person where you can't see what your own character looks like ever.

[Paelos]

Yep, it's horrible.

[Numtini]

I've only played Skyrim. What I see as the biggest problem of an ES game is the world is dull like watching paint dry dull. The landscape is dull and monotonous. Even the lizard people look to me the same as any of the other human races. It's just boring. Skyrim's a great game because you can do all this interesting stuff, everything has something you can interact with, or whatever. But the word itself is to me everyone's complaints about EQ2 multiplied by a hundred. I haven't played ESO, but this video looks like more of the same.

[Modern Angel]

So I guess since it's in the video, I can talk about one of the things I really hate: the off-to-the-side 3rd person view. It's motion-sickness inducing because of how it draws my eyes off to the side all the time, and it kind of sucks that the alternative is 1st person where you can't see what your own character looks like ever.

Yes, I hate it. I was constantly missing my targets because a lifetime of third person games (who the fuck plays TES games in third consistently?) has taught me that I face forwards.

[Ingmar]

The landscape is dull and monotonous.

Huh. I thought the landscape in Skyrim was gorgeous.

[Mithas]

The landscape is dull and monotonous.

Huh. I thought the landscape in Skyrim was gorgeous.

I think we had the same discussion over in the Skyrim thread recently. I thought it was great too. I think everything in TESO looks dull and boring.

[Bhazrak]

See, I figured I'd end up playing it like all the other ES games, primarily in first person and switching to third very sparingly, but it ended up the exact opposite for me. Maybe because this time around, first person was an afterthought. Or maybe because it's an MMO. Or because it felt Witcher like. Shrug, can't really talk more about it I guess.

EDIT: The UI improvements in the video for the skills and character info are a step in the right direction.

[Hoax]

SWTOR is free to play and still terrible, subscription had nothing to do with it.

I know you are aware of the number of boxes SWTOR sold at release, so I will assume you're just trolling.

Are you seriously so stupid that you think that's a valid argument? The game is shit. Everyone can go play it tonight and its obviously shit. The voice acting is pretty cool. Everything else is just awful and some of the major features might be worst AAA MMO of all time level bad.