Guitar thread

[Sky]

I shocked the guy I just jammed with when I said I never capo. Learn how to play in multiple keys in standard tuning! (Hi Raph!  )

I did struggle playing Hootchie Man in A at the open position, I've always played it in E or at the 5th position. It's funny to struggle to play basic things like turnarounds when I'm out of comfortable positions. But it's also good for you.

[Raph]

I don't capo for key, usually, but for tunings or tone. Cowboy chords on a capo VII just have a certain timbre that you aren't going to easily get with a barre... but most of my capoing these days is for partial capo work.

Been playing more piano than guitar lately, I have to admit.

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/Dubious.mp3
http://www.raphkoster.com/music/AfterConferring.mp3

[Sky]

Ell oh ell, the guitarist for that bass player's beatles band just asked me to drum for them. Poor bastards if I'm the best they can dig up. I told him I'm mostly a funk drummer (James Brown, Luther Allison, Son Seals, Jr Walker are some of the most fun stuff to play), so it might work out oddly.

Partly why I want to get in more time on the drums, though. They're a hell of a lot of fun and there are so few good groove drummers. And you just show up to open mics with sticks.

[Mrbloodworth]

Cannibal Corpse - Frantic Disembowelment (Guitar, Bass & Drums only) Studio footage.

 

[Sky]

Are you playing in that video? If not, wrong thread   

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh, sorry, just figured some of you may get a trip out of the finger work. (and Sans vocals, lol)

[Sky]

Ah, I see what you did now. I was reading some amazon comments while previewing and album by The Sword. People ding them on actually singing. 

The Sword is pretty awesome, though.

To keep with the thread, I played guitar for an hour last night, wicked fucking loud. Just in the mood to overdrive the shit out of the amp, add some more overdrive and cut loose. This was after I had played drums for two hours straight. Great evening, it's so nice having a little band room in the house. Here's some of the Beatles songs I was feeling more comfortable with on drums:

Come Together
I Want You (She's So Heavy)
You Never Give Me Your Money
Back In The USSR (if it doesn't kill my wrist on the high hat)
Glass Onion
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Yer Blues
Helter Skelter
Revolution
Taxman
Good Day Sunshine
Drive My Car
Girl
Run For Your Life

[Raph]

Many many many pages ago, someone (can't find it now!) spotted that I have Greg Brown's "Who Woulda Thunk It" in my fakebook and said they'd like to hear me do it.

I did a live streamed show a while back and recorded it, so here it is, warts and all.

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/22WhoWouldaThunkIt.mp3

[Sky]

That was nice, Raph. Starting to work with a singer/songwriter type, so getting a bit more of an ear for that kind of thing. Like the vocal harmonizer for the choruses, too.

First rehearsal with the bassist for the Beatles thing tonight. Supposed to be first time playing with the full band friday, but I've got to make a big dinner for family.

Guitar-wise, still mostly playing renaissance through romance from that book I've been mining for a while now. Trying to grow out my nails a bit, not sure I like it (and it never really works out anyway, I'm too rough and break them). I think coming from the bass makes playing with nails feel unnatural compared to a more plucky style. Luckily I'm no purist!

[Furiously]

Many many many pages ago, someone (can't find it now!) spotted that I have Greg Brown's "Who Woulda Thunk It" in my fakebook and said they'd like to hear me do it.

I did a live streamed show a while back and recorded it, so here it is, warts and all.

http://www.raphkoster.com/music/22WhoWouldaThunkIt.mp3

Very nice. Thank you.

[Raph]

That was nice, Raph. Starting to work with a singer/songwriter type, so getting a bit more of an ear for that kind of thing. Like the vocal harmonizer for the choruses, too.

Glad you two liked it. I have like 50 of that sort of thing recorded from live shows... when I listen to this one, I just go "yikes, keep the tempo steady!!!" Owell.

The harmonizer is a lot of fun. I really came to like it for these purposes.

Usually, I do a lot more guitar work, throw in a solo, that sort of thing.

What are the challenges you find working with a singer/songwriter type, Sky?

First rehearsal with the bassist for the Beatles thing tonight. Supposed to be first time playing with the full band friday....

how'd that go?

[Sky]

Not great, but again...he thought it was awesome. It was very humbling, because I'm used to being good at what I do and the drums are just an odd thing. Also frustrating, because I'm naturally a good drummer, but it exposes a lot of habits I've fallen into in 26 (!) years of guitar/bass playing. I learned I do not count. I key off the drums and vocals, so just playing with a bass player was difficult, and frankly kind of boring and repetitious (not good for the adhd). It's been so long since I was writing with my band that I forgot how many tricks I used to get out of counting, like varying each melody slightly so I could remember where I was in the song. I literally can't just play the same thing over repeatedly, I both get bored and distracted and lose my place.

Anyway, that translates to an odd experience on the drums, since, you know, counting is important there. Maybe it would be better with the full band, but I've been in bands with drummers who keep starting and stopping and I don't want to be that guy. That said, when we're grooving, I lose myself in it and it's a ton of fun, and I'm pretty good. So maybe with some practice and teaching this old dog some old tricks, there might be some possibility in the future. The bassist still wants me to jam with them 

Challenges as a guitarist would actually be similar, for slightly different reasons. When I'm jamming on my own stuff I can just kind of meander all over the place and not worry about changes. Dude's got a boatload of songs and fragments, and there's some really cool stuff to work on, but I forgot how much work went into it :) I've spent the last 10 years+ playing totally undisciplined, so I'm uncertain as to whether I want to change that. It's mostly a lazy thing, so I probably should.

I'm still not used to the way you guys sing, so I'm trying not to insert myself into the vocal part at all (Junior Wells would not be a good backing vocalist for James Taylor, for instance). On guitar I mostly try to channel Warren Haynes playing behind Gregg Allman on their acoustic stuff (think Melissa or live at Red Rocks). He's got one great riff that his old partner hated, but it's soaked in funk even though he didn't plan it that way. I dropped in a funk drum thing behind it and had him play it straight and it took a great turn. That'll probably be one of the first we record, but I'll need a few more mics and a sub-mixer for the drums before we get to that point. I'm just set up for recording myself with my guitar.

Song-wise, I've been playing blues for a while now. While it's a great structure to solo over, trying to remember different changes and solo over them is amazingly different and challenging. It's pushing me back to my study work that I've really slacked off on, but it's also great applicable practice for chord tone soloing. He's kind of a flat singer, so I'm trying to find alternate melodies from the chord structure and pull those out and put them into the lead lines. Maybe have them work back into the vocal when I'm more comfortable interacting with that part, I'm trying not to inject myself into his work too much at this point, which is difficult because I used to do a lot of arranging in my band, nothing is sacred imo. I guess it's tough to submerge the musical ego after so many years of being a leader and then soloist, heh.

Sorry this rambled, it's an interesting (to me, anyway) and humbling time right now, which is good. I'm trying to challenge myself to get more serious and focused on one hand, but also to relax and do whatever strikes my fancy on the other. Don't know if I can balance those two goals.

[Raph]

As far as the way "us guys" sing... heh. I guess the way I would put it is that in singer-songwriter stuff, lyrics matter. A lot. So when you listen to a lot of the best-produced stuff in this vein, you'll notice that the arrangements leave the vocals front and center so that the story can be told, even if the vocalist isn't all that. It's meant to be actively listened to.

Depending on who the singer-songwriter is, the guitar parts can be either supersimple, or harmonically very complex. And since most singer-songwriters play solo or maybe with one accompanist, you often get '"ill the space" syndrome, where the song itself has been elaborated so much that there's little room for another instrument in the mix.

[penfold]

Cannibal Corpse - Frantic Disembowelment (Guitar, Bass & Drums only) Studio footage.

 

That's a clip from the "Making Of"  DVD that came with Wretched Spawn. It's a great DVD, and follows them making the album at an isolated country studio.

[Amarr HM]

The harmonizer is a lot of fun. I really came to like it for these purposes.

Is it an EHX Voice box perchance? I was thinking of getting one.

[Raph]

The harmonizer is a lot of fun. I really came to like it for these purposes.

Is it an EHX Voice box perchance? I was thinking of getting one.

No, it's a Vocalist Live 4.

[Amarr HM]

Ah ok the more expensive one, sounds good though.

[Amarr HM]

Anyone know anything about the new VOX AC30 Customs? I have pre-order on one and I'm looking around for opinions before I finalise.

[Soln]

via Slashdot today:  Music Notation with HTML5 Canvas

simply extraordinary -- with tab


after years of growing up and then missing OLGA badly, this is very welcome


(yeah I lurk in this thread.  So what?)

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't get it?

[Samwise]

Musical notation drawn with JS calls on a HTML5 canvas.  As opposed to done with ASCII art, which doesn't work very well with standard notation (fine for tab though), or with raster images, which are very space-inefficient.

[Sky]

As opposed to done with ASCII art, which doesn't work very well with standard notation (fine for tab though)

I disagree, but I'm a tab snob.

[Samwise]

I actually like the ASCII art version better because then you don't have lines going through 0s making them look like 8s.

[Nebu]

Summer spree:  I need a versatile guitar head that I can use with a 2 x 12 cab for practice stuff.  Not interested in Marshall unless you think they can give me a variety of tones.  I'd be extra happy of I could also use it with an acoustic and a pickup, but that may be unreasonable. 

Any suggestions on bang for the buck?  Should I just buy an amp instead of a head + cab?   

[Sky]

What kind of music, tones, guitars and budget? :)

I'm no expert on amps, I'm just dipping my toes back in with the fender amp I bought a couple years ago. You should probably just take your guitar around to some guitar shops and try some stuff out.

[Nebu]

What kind of music, tones, guitars and budget? :)

You should probably just take your guitar around to some guitar shops and try some stuff out.

I would, but I'm way too self-conscious. 

I play clean, square wave, phase, flange, echo, compressor... the usual stuff.  Everything from the Beatles to AC/DC. 

Maybe I should just buy an amp with 2x 12 and 2 channels?  I used to have a Fender Twin reverb.  Loved kicking it and making the cool spring sound.  I gave it away a few years ago to a student that was incredible but broke. 

[Sky]

How loud do you need it? My 22W (@8 Ohms) Fender Deluxe Reverb (1x12) is wicked loud, when I get it to the right level of overdrive on the tubes, it's almost shaking the room. I was looking at a VibroKing, but at 60W (3x10) I'm not sure I'd ever be able to use the amp's natural overdrive.

If you're thinking of heads, maybe something like these smaller watt heads, unless you were looking for something to gig, you might need a bit mroe:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Blackstar-HT5-Series-HT5H-5W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483560
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Egnater-Tweaker-15W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=423553

This one also looks kind of interesting.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Bugera-V55HD-55W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=502585

But I'm not much help here, I haven't heard any of them. I like my little Fender, it's not perfect but it gets the job done and is loud enough for the small club I visit. I'm also self-conscious about my playing, especially since I know most of the guys that work at the local guitar shops and I feel dumb playing in front of them...and I'm pretty good. But those guys are scary good. After buying the amp and guitar there, though, I now feel better about playing...when I have no money for new toys, heh. Listen, if you're halfway decent they'll enjoy the break from the millionth kid hacking up Enter Sandman or Stairway or whatever the song is that EVERY newb is hacking in every guitar shops everywhere.

My next toy is already pretty well scoped. Of course, it will be many, many years before I'll be able to afford it: http://www.taylorguitar.com/Guitars/Acoustic-Electric/Nylon/NS72ce/

[Nebu]

Thanks Sky.

I've been thinking about a head because I have a 2 x 10 enclosure that I use for bass and I wanted to see how it sounded with guitar.  I may also look at some other stuff. A local guy is selling a Fender Stage 100 for next to nothing.  It's a lot more power than I need, but the price is right.  There's always the pawn shop hunt.  Local pawn shop has a lake kayak I want and I may get him to throw in a 25 W amp for cheap.  I'll keep looking. 

[Miguel]

Did you say what your budget was?

[Nebu]

Ideally, $500 or less.  I'm fine with used.

[Oz]

Nebu,

if you just need a head and are wanting it to do musical masturbation (you know...playing by yourself) or home recording, I highly recomend getting the Vox AC4TV head.  The attenuater sucks, but 4watts is suprisingly loud and sounds very good, especially through 1x12, let alone 2x12 (it shakes my windows at 75+% volume, plus you get nice Vox overdrive at 50% for single coil and 40% for humbuckers). 

Plus, it's only ~$200.  Order the head from musiciansfriend, play it, and if you don't like it send it back.  They have a suprisingly good "not 100% satisfied" return policy.

[Nebu]

Thanks Oz.  I'll take a look and may even mess with one when I go to Memphis on Saturday.  As Sky pointed out, a low wattage amp may do the trick since a) I don't play loud most of the time and b) it would be easy to overdrive when I wanted to do more distorted stuff. 

Appreciate the ideas.

[Amarr HM]

I bought a new Vox AC30 . Really versatile and it can really pack a punch though not a huge gainy sound, more of 30 watt face melter. I used it for a festival on Saturday and for a local gig on sunday and it worked well in both scenarios. The distortion channel is that Who my generation type of sound or Lennons sound on revolver, you need an AB foot pedal and two leads to switch between them though as there is no channel select pedal available.

The AC15 is supposed to be awesome too though a slightly different sound. If you don't need to cut over a loud rhytym section like I do then it would be definitely worth looking at as it's more affordable.

[NiX]

Beginner acoustic guitar...and GO!

[Sky]

I play this one every day while I'm saving for a real Taylor:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Taylor-Baby-Taylor-Mahogany-Top-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=514967

I have a 'cheap' Alvarez that is full scale (jumbo, actually) that cost $400 (vs $250 for the Baby when I got it) that can't touch the Baby's tone. That said, the Baby doesn't intonate well, for a beginner that might not be a problem, though. On the upside, tone out the wazoo, an ebony fretboard is really rare in that price range, smaller scale means easy to play, and it's technically a travel guitar, easy to carry around (comes with a nicely padded gig bag).

If you want real cheap starter guitar, you should hit up the local music stores and ask the guys there to explain the trade-offs with cheap guitars. I'll put in some links, but I can't endorse any of these as I haven't played them - and of course remember that build quality can vary wildly within the same model range, so I always recommend playing a guitar before buying it as possible. Disclaimers disclaimed, here's the 'cheaper than the Baby' ideas:

Rogue, these guys have been around for a while doing the super cheap guitar thing. If you just want to spend less than a video game to dick around, this might be an entry point @ $35. You can run it over and not feel too bad, but I don't know if you're doing yourself any favors if it doesn't sound or play well (easier to get frustrated). Cheap tuners = goes out of tune more often, etc. Just mentioning this to let you know there are super cheaps in the market.

Epiphone is Gibson's 'other' label these days, been making acoustics since the 1800s. Build quality can sometimes rival or exceed the Gibsons, I've played some beautiful Epis (and some stinkers). But here's a $99 option that I'd tentatively endorse as the cheap option.

Fender also has a line of cheap guitars, comes with what is probably the cheap cardboard and vinyl case. I've never played a Fender acoustic.

I'd recommend the Baby, obviously, but the Epi might not be bad. Also, you might think about nylon string guitars, they're easier on newbie fingers. In fact, I think this Yamaha is the same kind I started on 26 years ago :) At $140, that's another really good option. Heck, I think I'm going to have to buy one of those until I can afford the Taylor I long for (a couple posts back, @ $2650).