Guitar thread

[stray]

There's one pawn shop here that's vry old school, but it's such a hole in the wall redneck joint that I'm better off finding landscape equipment there than a good guitar.

[Sky]

Original Rich Bich? As in you didn't notice it was there in the store ?

I was in Jr High and had no money. Missed it meaning I didn't buy it when I saw it. Like that Taylor nylon cutaway..and Musician's Friend is having a Taylor sale today (phone only). I really, really want to call in to see what the deal is, since that Taylor is the other big miss.

[Nebu]

When I was very young (12 - 16), I used to do tech work for a specialty music store in downtown Minneapolis.  I had the opportunity to buy so many used instruments and equipment that it now makes me cry.  Pre-CBS Fender stuff (Precisions, Teles, Strats) for a couple hundred bucks, Ampeg, Fender, HiWatt, and Vox tube amps, Gibson and Gretch hollow bodies, you name it.  I look at the price of these things in vintage shops now and it makes me wish I had just bought everything I could back then and tossed it into a vault. 

I feel your pain Sky. 

[Raph]

Figured out a standard tuning version of Ellis Paul's "Speed of Trees" at like half past midnight last night. Here's his live version of it (skip the interview bit).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSaWVrnXvRI

[Sky]

Got my drums set up in the basement. Tired of sitting on a chair, got the local music shop owner to dig up a throne for me. Depending on how the next couple of months go (read: if I still love playing drums and can improve my right hand a bit), I think I'm going to try and strike a deal with him for a low-end Mapex kit. I've known the guy since I was a kid hanging out bugging the hell out of him in the mid-80s, so prospects are good. I'll probably trade my Alvarez, I just don't play it much since I got the Baby.

Went home for lunch break and played through the first four songs on Hoodoo Man Blues (which should be in absolutely everyone's collection! :)).

Edit: his current location is right next door to the pawn shop that had that BC Rich, heh.

[Sky]

Oh, mah achin' leg. Still tweaking the positions of the kit, but put in over an hour last night. My right leg was so shot I had to stop, the last half-hour was actually funny with the right leg disobeying me every now and again. Put the ipod on random and skipped through anything uninteresting. Everything from Phantom of the Opera (Maiden, not Broadway!) to Miss Ida B (Buddy Guy) to Come As You Are (Nirvana).

Nirvana was actually tougher because it's so structured, most stuff I have is pretty jammy and you can just fill it in. Dave's stuff is so recognizable while still being pretty basic. Maiden was tough physically, but I grew up on Maiden so the changes and accents were easy. Some Allman Bros stuff was odd because there are two drummers (three now), so multiple parts going on.

Really want to improve my fills, get some good tom action going like a swing drummer. And the omnipresent issue with the right hand time keeping on the cymbals, grr. Some really easy beats are the most difficult because the bass and time keeping cymbal are playing two patterns but my right hand and foot are connected.

[Sky]

Thread almost slipping off the 1st page! Are you guys up to anything?

I'm working through some classical stuff ("easy" classical, still brutal at times, and beautiful: Sans, Carcassi, Sor, Tarrega, etc). Did start up with the electric a bit again, because my rock skills are really hurtin'. An old friends band reunited but I couldn't even do justice to their stuff, too much time on the baby last year.

Still putting in time on the drum throne. Finally updated my ipod and tried to play some Mastodon. That drummer is....good. I can't really play near his level, but it's good for the general feel of his fills, which is a massively advanced version of what I try to do, gives me the timing and patterns to work towards.

[Nebu]

I listened to some live local music on Friday night, but that's about it.  It was sad to watch... the bass player had such a stranglehold on the neck that he always seemed about half a beat behind the rest of the band.  The experience had me thinking about playing in some hack cover band again, but I don't think I have the stomach for it anymore. 

[Sky]

There's a library patron who is an old dog, played bass mostly but also enjoys guitar; Beatles, Stones, etc. Talked at length with him the other night and might have him over for some jamming and see how it goes. It's such a pita to try and get a real band going, but I'm trying to find a few blokes to hammer out some noise a few nights a month. Now that I have the drums set up and a semi-"band room" going, it could be fun.

Last bassist I jammed with was pretty solid but uncreative at an open mic. Then I went over to his room and things just didn't click. I like older rootsier ballsy blues and he likes modern white guy smooth blues. Bleh. So many factors, even if it sounds good. Wish I had a recording of some Muddy/Buddy stuff we did at the open mic, it fucking ripped. Drunks screaming, women gyrating, good times.

[Raph]

Figured out a heretofore-unknown capability of my soundcard with updated ASIO drivers, and now I can record two mono and one stereo track at once (and could probably manage more with more cables). Recorded two old tunes over the weekend, and time to completion was cut in half, which was nice. :)

I only have a backlog of 200-odd songs to record. Should finish by lunchtime tomorrow. :P Yeah right.

[Fraeg]

I am wading through learning Ableton Live, bought it while it was on sale, along with a few other goodies like a Korg PadKontrol....  500 page manuals are fun 

Something I am very happy about is I took my departed friends guitar into a shop to have it completely rewired, intonation, etc.  It is nothing special just a strat knockoff, but it is a greath thing to have and I feel very happy that his family gave it to me.  Looking forward to playing it when I pick it up on Weds.

[Arnold]

Thread almost slipping off the 1st page! Are you guys up to anything?

I've started working through "A Modern Method For Guitar: Vol I", again.  I've never been too far into that one before stopping for whatever reason.  But damn it, I'm determined to learn how to read music this time.  Also, that book makes me put my fingers into places and positions they are unaccustomed to going, which is cool because otherwise my fingers just go back to the repetitive patterns and licks they are used to.

I also loaned my Baby Taylor to my cousin's kids.  His 9 year old has taken an interest in it.

[Sky]

But damn it, I'm determined to learn how to read music this time.  

I've recommended a few books along the way in this thread. The book that started opening doors was Fretboard Logic, introduced me to the CAGED method. But the author isn't the best at explaining things or organizing a workbook. Then I discovered Barrett Tagliarino, who excels at that (he's an MI instructor). The first book of his I got was Fretboard Workbook, which is exactly that. Go through, do the exercises. He lays it out in a good manner, learn the fretboard shapes and patterns. Only thing is he uses a 1-5 naming convention for CAGED and for me, CAGED is easier to remember (because we all learn cowboy chords so early). The next book I got builds off the first one: Chord Tone Soloing. Highly recommend both of those books unless you've already mastered the fretboard and improvisational soloing (heh).

Now, on to reading music. I've been able to read music since high school, but I'm awful at it. So it's tough for me to find a book that's not too basic but not too advanced. Barrett has published a great theory book that seems to be about like most theory books I used in school (my first school theory book was this one). I haven't worked through it, but given how strong Barrett is at writing workbooks, I'd cautiously recommend it, even so. But the other book I got with that order, Guitar Reading Workbook is a door-opening gem on the level of the first two Barrett books. It's your basic notation reading/light theory book, but the entire thing is structured around the guitar.

I love Modern Method, too. It just seems a bit more dense and tough to work through than Barrett's stuff. I also love good books, so I just get them all and go back and forth :) I think Barrett's is better as a self-instruction book. Leavitt's seems to be more suited to a teacher, especially given the duet examples I think that was his intention.

Also, that book makes me put my fingers into places and positions they are unaccustomed to going, which is cool because otherwise my fingers just go back to the repetitive patterns and licks they are used to.

That's one reason I'm digging the classical books right now. Even the 'easy' versions have some hairy chord changes, especially when you get to allegretto or faster. It's also helping me read note values, if not pitch. I'm still half-tarded reading tab* but now I can almost sight read the tempo in standard notation.

* Tab is the original and proper notation for fretted instruments and when combined with standard notation for tempo is the best way to convey the composer's intent. I feel like I always have to add this footnote for educated purist assholes.

[Arnold]

I love Modern Method, too. It just seems a bit more dense and tough to work through than Barrett's stuff. I also love good books, so I just get them all and go back and forth :) I think Barrett's is better as a self-instruction book. Leavitt's seems to be more suited to a teacher, especially given the duet examples I think that was his intention.

I took lessons a while back and it was one of the books my teacher had me working on.  I don't think I had a good teacher - he was a nice guy and a good musician, but he had me working on too many things at once and I didn't feel like I was making good progress.  I've still got the book and it's supposed to be good, so I'm using it again.  It came with a CD too, so if something is confusing on paper I can resort to using my ear to get the idea of what the notation is trying to tell me.

He also had me get this jazz chord book... "Mel Bay's Rhythm Guitar Chord System" and it's a BITCH.  That damn thing makes my left hand and forearm ache in a bad way, and I'm talking about right from the beginning.

[Sky]

Stay away from Pumping Nylon, then 

[stray]

I lasted one day with a teacher a long while back. That's more of a fault of mine than his probably. Just not good with school in general. And not good at teaching myself except by doing/muscle memory/listening. All sensory type of stuff. And most importantly, it all makes me a lousy teacher too :D I don't even want to "talk". I'm all "dude", "put your hands HERE. Don't you hear it???"  


Eh.. anyways. That probably wasn't relevant.

I'm really torn right now between getting a new laptop or a nice Epi Les Paul I wanted.

[Nebu]

I'm really torn right now between getting a new laptop or a nice Epi Les Paul I wanted.

Save your money and get either a Les Paul Studio or a Les Paul Standard.  The hardware on the Epi models suffers by comparison (in my humble opinion).

[stray]

Ah, but I can't get a cheaper Gibon Custom in that nice white with gold hardware   I want to be Randy Rhoads you see. The non-flying V version.

[Nebu]

Sure you can.  It's just expensive. 

[Sky]

You can get well-constructed Epis, just like you can get a crappy Gibby. Imo you always have to put hands on a guitar. If it plays good, you can always drop in new electronics, tuners, etc.

Last time I sat down with a teacher, a couple years ago, I learned I really just need to learn the neck and brush up on theory. A couple years later I've made a bit of progress and saved a ton of money. I really enjoyed our sessions, but I'd rather sit around drinking beer shooting the shit and trading ideas.

I'd like to get a recording or two or the stuff I'm playing right now, but acoustic classical stuff is so brutal to record, the smallest mistake is so pronounced, even a minor misfret or mispluck is just awful. And you know how sloppy my blues recordings were :)

[stray]

I've seen high end Epis that were nice, I agree. I've only had one Gibson.. an SG. It was cool too, but probably not worth what I paid for it.

[stray]

I ended up getting a notebook. maybe i'll figure a way of making this an instrument too. heh. i almost bought a used firebird though. which got me thinking...... why does NO ONE play a firebird? is there something i don't know? always dug the style myself. plus, they're neckthroughs... not sure if gibson makes anything else like it. anyways i would have bought it if the color was better.

[edit] wait johnny winter played one.

[Arnold]

Warren Haynes plays a Firebird sometimes.  I think he only does that with Gov't Mule though and sticks with Les Pauls for The Allman Brothers.  Nikki Sixx plays a Firebird bass.

[Sky]

Last summer when we saw ABB at Canandaigua he was leaning heavily on his ES-335.

I can't wait until some mythical day when the house is in good shape, truck is paid off, and I can start filling out the guitar collection. The next guitar I'll be getting is a Taylor nylon string with a cutaway. Or some Taylor. I love the Baby so much I'd really like to get a full-sized model. I'll probably end up with two, a nylon and a steel, so maybe no need for cutaway on the nylon.

For electrics, eventually I'd like to fill out with a bunch: Tele, Strat, Gretsch, baritone, etc. But the SG is such an amazing guitar I'm pretty much good to go in that department for now.

I'd also like to get a couple new amps, too. Forget the boutique brand I heard a couple years ago that one local guy had just gotten, but it was the best amp I've ever heard, probably could look back through this thread and find it :) Tone...it's so elusive. 90% from the fingers but that 10% is a bitch.

[Sky]

Dicked around with some Mercyful Fate on guitar, thanks to the music thread last week. Never learned their stuff back in the day, it was more for inspiration than imitation.

Then I sat down at the drum kit and played some of their stuff 

Broke my snare head :(

[Nebu]

I've seen high end Epis that were nice, I agree. I've only had one Gibson.. an SG. It was cool too, but probably not worth what I paid for it.

Saw a Gibson Les Paul Studio on Amazon of all places for $789.  It's pretty bare bones, but may be worth a look when you get the money. 

I bought a Schecter S-1 Elite on eBay for about $300 and have to say that it has all the sustain I could ever want with a very fast neck for a fraction of the price.  I'm no guitar player, but to my hands and ears this guitar was every bit as good as a LP Studio for my needs.  To be fair, I bought my Schecter from a studio in Cal, so it was modded and setup up in a wonderful way, so that may color my opinion. 

Been playing bass quite a bit lately and am starting to look at replacing some of my pedals with a rack mount, digital effect system.  Is this a mistake?

[Sky]

Depends on the pedals and the rack, and how you're playing these days. For recording, rack all the way (do as I say, not as I do!). I used to run a rack and it's very handy, but you need a good foot controller. These days I'm trying to simplify and oddly, that means pedals. More units, but much easier to run. I have a decent Boss GT-6 board, but programming it is  I just don't have the patience for it, and programming a rack is similar. I like to just twist a couple knobs and stomp on things.

No right or wrong, just depends on preference. And also if you're into boutique stuff, you won't get those sounds out of a multi-effect unit.

[Sky]

Saw a clip of this song on tv last night (on a rambly and uneven Bill Wyman's Blues Odyssey), lefty plays Robert Johnson on bass. Not the most technical thing but it's pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFKxnj5PMvU

[Nebu]

Saw a clip of this song on tv last night (on a rambly and uneven Bill Wyman's Blues Odyssey), lefty plays Robert Johnson on bass. Not the most technical thing but it's pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFKxnj5PMvU

I'm all for innovative bass stuff (a la Wooten, Pastorious, etc), but it's still a bass.   We already have an instrument that does the whole melodic strumming thing better.  It's called a guitar.

I appreciate the talent that goes into the playing and I don't mean to be an ass.  I do appreciate you posting the youtube link and it was a good watch. 

[Sky]

Jammed with a guy who been coming to the library for a while, he's a few years older and a big Beatles fan (has that violin-style bass and what what). Sat on the drums and he played through a bunch of Beatles tunes on bass. That was fun and he wanted me to drum for him and a couple guitarists that play Beatles  (I said no, I'm awful on the drums, but maybe in the future after I've improved).

Switched to guitar and played some blues for a bit. Trying to do some delta blues and he kept speeding them up, damned British invasion people. "You can't play the blues too slow" - Muddy Waters.

Went upstairs with the acoustics and he played some of his songs, the fiancee says he sounds like James Taylor. I'm not a big folk fan, so I just sat back and channeled Warren Haynes playing behind Gregg Allman on their acoustic tour.

Didn't get much done, really, but it was fun to mess around.

[Nebu]

Funny you mention this.  Since I've lost my taste for MMO's, I've been playing my bass a lot more.  Most nights I spend 30 mins running scales and pentatonics up and down the neck and follow it up with covers from my cd collection.  I've been playing a lot of Beatles, Zeppelin, Rush, and some pop stuff (Duran Duran, Green Day, AC/DC, Kansas, etc.).  Playing some of the old Beatles stuff reminds me of just how good McCartney was in his prime.  He does some cool stuff on Taxman that I struggle to keep up with.  I'm guessing that the guitar style neck of his Hofner helps.

[Sky]

Taxman was one of the tunes I recognized him playing. We played a bunch and I recognized about half of them. He didn't like my long scale basses, I've always favored a really long scale though the neck isn't too wide, and I like it thin behind the frets. And jumbo frets. His McCartney knock-off was a club neck, thin width but fat behind the frets. Short scale with almost no fret wire, almost like playing a fretless. I had a little trouble with it. He played mine and complained his hands were too small, so we compared and mine are smaller :)

He had a nice Guild acoustic guitar.

Mentioned in the 'what are you playing' thread that I've just not been in the mood for gaming lately. Trying to get back into my theory and fretboard training, the little I've done (out of the books I often mention) has given amazing dividends on every level. Every day at lunch I get at least 10-20 minutes playing Renaissance through Romance pieces from this Jerry Willard book. And lounging on the sofa I'll pull out Pumping Nylon (in tab, for now) to utterly defeat my hands. That book is amazing for strength and dexterity. I hate and love it.

[Nebu]

I play a 70's Fender Jazz.  To be honest, I've never liked the feel of the neck as much as either my Rick 4001 or an 80's Ibanez that I used to gig with.  I stick with the fender because it has such wonderfully woody tone that I've never really found anything with the low end that suited me as well.  I also have a deep hatred for active electronics after all of the times I've had a 9V battery die in the middle of a song. 

I may have to take a look at those books.  I'm always looking for new finger training techniques.  I've actually been spending a lot of time on my right hand (my left is much faster than my right) by practicing some pick style finger techniques.  I've been trying to go up and down the strings using a back and forth motion on my first three fingers a la Wooten.  A tip I learned was to use a piece of rubber tubing under the strings near the nut to deaden them and require more force from my fingers to make noise.  It has helped a lot with hand strength, but my speed is still really lacking.

[Sky]

Playing metal bass pretty much took care of my right hand :) I'm pretty much straight alternating for most stuff (index/middle), with three fingers for triplets and of course pima for any more complex fingerstyle stuff. For triplets I played the Trooper a few times to warm up, though Harris claims he only uses two fingers.

The books I linked are for guitar, though. You might be able to adapt a few things for the bass, but I can't even do the stretches on guitar (like 1st finger 1st fret to 4th finger 7th fret wtfno). I can't even do a boogie in F 1st position.

[Nebu]

Playing metal bass pretty much took care of my right hand :) I'm pretty much straight alternating for most stuff (index/middle), with three fingers for triplets and of course pima for any more complex fingerstyle stuff. For triplets I played the Trooper a few times to warm up, though Harris claims he only uses two fingers.

I'm 100% certain that you're a better bass player than I ever was.  I just enjoy the challenge of trying to figure things out.  I can emulate many bass players alright, but the guy that gives me fits is still John Paul Jones.  I don't know what it is about his playing, but just when I think I have it down he does something to let me realize that I'm never going to come close to his league.   

I did realize that the books were for guitar.  I've been playing my Tacoma acoustic more as my new girlfriend enjoys singing while I play.  Sadly, playing old standards has shown me how deficient my guitar skills are.  Capo + bar chords ftw!