SWTOR

[sam, an eggplant]

Rift's subscription base has certainly dropped since release, given the many calls for server merges and free character transfers to underpopulated realms. Since they haven't merged servers, the obvious way to make group content accessible to lower-populated servers is a cross-server LFD queue. Which is exactly what they did.

Would they have done it anyway? Probably, Rift (and soon, SWTOR) copied everything else. But they really needed it when they lost those subs.

[Tearofsoul]

Trion is smart, they shut down servers without being noticed.

[Ingmar]

Trion is smart, they shut down servers without being noticed.

This might just mean nobody is really paying attention to them at this point.

[Amaron]

Without any data, you're talking out of your pixellated money hat. :)

I didn't mean to imply people quitting in droves.   The data we have is that Blizz started printing a lot more money after they added LFD.  Another point we know is they lost a lot of subs when their LFD borked in Cata.  I don't think it's a far stretch to apply that data to a WoW clone.  The other data we have is that RIFT had a bunch of low pop servers (which means LFD matters more).   I hope you don't think game companies actually use marketing case studies to decide something like that.   Maybe for Halo but not for an MMO.

[UnSub]

Rift's subscription base has certainly dropped since release, given the many calls for server merges and free character transfers to underpopulated realms. Since they haven't merged servers, the obvious way to make group content accessible to lower-populated servers is a cross-server LFD queue. Which is exactly what they did.

Would they have done it anyway? Probably, Rift (and soon, SWTOR) copied everything else. But they really needed it when they lost those subs.

RIFT is an interesting case in that it was the polished MMO at launch that followed (arguably) the rules of what a MMO needs to do for a successful title, but it still couldn't hold onto subs.

It's one of the reasons why the sub-based payment model isn't viable any more - players don't put up with minor (or major) inconveniences any more and keep paying that $15 a month just because.

[Fabricated]

Rift's subscription base has certainly dropped since release, given the many calls for server merges and free character transfers to underpopulated realms. Since they haven't merged servers, the obvious way to make group content accessible to lower-populated servers is a cross-server LFD queue. Which is exactly what they did.

Would they have done it anyway? Probably, Rift (and soon, SWTOR) copied everything else. But they really needed it when they lost those subs.

RIFT is an interesting case in that it was the polished MMO at launch that followed (arguably) the rules of what a MMO needs to do for a successful title, but it still couldn't hold onto subs.

It's one of the reasons why the sub-based payment model isn't viable any more - players don't put up with minor (or major) inconveniences any more and keep paying that $15 a month just because.

Well, Rift also has one of the least interesting and compelling worlds I've seen in an MMO despite the fact it has gigantic old-god monster things busting out of holes in the sky randomly.

[Ingmar]

I actually can't think of a less compelling one I've played, except for Champions.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Rift was polished, it was good and it was bland.

[Sobelius]

IMHO no game will replicate what Blizzard did with WoW in terms of subs.  It's massive success makes it pretty much a statistical outlier when it comes to subscription measurements.  I also think it is largely a product of both its cultural time and its market timing.

- It rode the second wave of major MMOs, offering a better experience than the other titles on the market, including the similarly-timed release of EQ2.
- EQ 2 is a great study in contrasts to WoW. Arguably it had more going for it in terms of next-gen tech and such, with VO and an engine that was way ahead of the available hardware back in 2004. Yet it belly flopped.
- WoW eventually gained exposure in the wider culture -- from movie theater advertising, to a South Park "WoW" episode, to an annual convention that garners some media attention, and even celebrity commercials -- what other MMO has done that?
- Wow may have had a "cartoony style" BUT its style is so much more than just its graphic appearance -- its names/dialog/quests etc. all have enough of a not-too-super-serious tone that it attracts a wider audience; I intriduced a 47 year old librarian friend to it in 2006 and she subbed for 5 years doing nothing but running solo and playing around with alts after hitting level cap. She just stopped playing this year. She's the kind of person who is not interested in trying out other MMOs. She stuck with her first for a long time, enjoyed being part of its cultural zetgeist, and is now tired of it. Short of something akin to a Star Trek holodeck, I don't think she'll sub to any more MMOs for a while, not even SWTOR.

[Tearofsoul]

Trion is smart, they shut down servers without being noticed.

This might just mean nobody is really paying attention to them at this point.

Not really, the whole "free transfer" is smart. To the point that they took couple servers off the transfer list and then "completely disappear" not long after ...

[caladein]

Rift's subscription base has certainly dropped since release, given the many calls for server merges and free character transfers to underpopulated realms. Since they haven't merged servers, the obvious way to make group content accessible to lower-populated servers is a cross-server LFD queue. Which is exactly what they did.

Would they have done it anyway? Probably, Rift (and soon, SWTOR) copied everything else. But they really needed it when they lost those subs.

Rift side-stepped doing explicit server mergers by cannibalizing servers for trial use.  Same result for subscribers for the most part, but clearly different PR implications.

[sam, an eggplant]

Ahhh. Very clever!

[Shatter]

Rift can already be called a success I'm sure, it didnt roll over and die within the first 6 months.  They still have a strong Dev team thats honestly been one of the best Ive seen in an MMO outside of some of their stupid PvP / class changes but they have shown the industry how to launch and run an MMO.  Unfortunately as some pointed out already Rift is bland, I see Rifts now and just run around them to get my dailies done or to get that Carmintium node. 

[Sky]

Rift was polished, it was good and it was bland.

This.

I was playing a bit to get to 50 to check out the solo dungeons, not sure I'll make it. If there is a zone event, I just log off that character because it's a pita to deal with in a sparsely populated zone. Even with a population, if I'm questing I generally don't want to chase down Rift invasions. Of course, tying some of the best casual gear in the game to them makes me growly, because then I feel like I should participate for the shiny. They're not fun at all, imo.

[Threash]

I was about 1 in 5 for getting a competent player from the dungeon finder in Rift. 

I don't know as it was that bad in WoW.  Does Rift not have ilvl reqs in the LFD?  Regardless it is true that auto matchmaking LFD only really works for faceroll content.

Rift has a lot more class freedom and variety leading to a large amount of completely fucking horrible players.

[luckton]

Breaking:  Phase 2 of Guild PRe-Launch Program is GO!

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110921

Back in March we initiated our Pre-Launch Guild Program, where members of the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ community could search for already established guilds or register one of their very own through the Guild Headquarters page. We are thrilled to announce that we have begun the second phase of our Pre-Launch Guild Program!

With Phase 2: Alignment, we are introducing new features which allow guilds to set their allegiance with other guilds in The Old Republic. Now a guild leader, along with members who have the proper permissions, can select up to three guilds as either Allies or Adversaries, depending on their faction affiliation. Qualifying guilds that are marked as Allies and Adversaries of other guilds will have the highest chance of being placed in the game together, allowing these guilds to coexist on the same server.

Another feature being implemented with Phase 2 is the ability for guild leaders and members with the proper permissions to invite friends to join their guild via email. You can start recruiting new members today!

To learn more about guilds in The Old Republic, check out the Guilds Game System page for details, and to search for or join a guild, visit the Guild HQ now! Also be sure to visit the Guilds FAQ for answers to commonly asked questions.

So...who do we align or declare war with? 

[Merusk]

We declare war on SLAP, obviously.

[Sky]

So...who do we align or declare war with?  

I'm hoping everyone planning on playing, but in non-f13 guilds, will align or declare with BC.

I believe Sjofn wants SLAP on a different servers because she wants her Republitards in a different world from her Imperials. The only SLAP showing up is an Imp guild.

ETA: Only three slots for allies/rivals. Have to be set up for the same server rules for a server match. We're currently rivals with Riggswolfe's guild, so we have two slots left for BC. One reserved for SLAP if they go Republic, RP server and want to be on the same server. If not, THEN FINE! 

[Kirth]

So...who do we align or declare war with?  

I'm hoping everyone planning on playing, but in non-f13 guilds, will align or declare with BC.

I believe Sjofn wants SLAP on a different servers because she wants her Republitards in a different world from her Imperials. The only SLAP showing up is an Imp guild.

ETA: Only three slots for allies/rivals. Have to be set up for the same server rules for a server match. We're currently rivals with Riggswolfe's guild, so we have two slots left for BC. One reserved for SLAP if they go Republic, RP server and want to be on the same server. If not, THEN FINE! 

I'm forming a guild with some people I work with and some others I know thru gaming (wow, etc...)

[ghost]

Rift was polished, it was good and it was bland.

This.

I was playing a bit to get to 50 to check out the solo dungeons, not sure I'll make it. If there is a zone event, I just log off that character because it's a pita to deal with in a sparsely populated zone. Even with a population, if I'm questing I generally don't want to chase down Rift invasions. Of course, tying some of the best casual gear in the game to them makes me growly, because then I feel like I should participate for the shiny. They're not fun at all, imo.

The rifts were pretty cool for the first month, but they got old just like the public quests in Warhammer.  Doing the same thing all the time gets pretty fucking old and there's not much variety to those systems. 

[luckton]

So...who do we align or declare war with?  

I'm hoping everyone planning on playing, but in non-f13 guilds, will align or declare with BC.

I believe Sjofn wants SLAP on a different servers because she wants her Republitards in a different world from her Imperials. The only SLAP showing up is an Imp guild.

ETA: Only three slots for allies/rivals. Have to be set up for the same server rules for a server match. We're currently rivals with Riggswolfe's guild, so we have two slots left for BC. One reserved for SLAP if they go Republic, RP server and want to be on the same server. If not, THEN FINE!  

I re-applied to Bat Country.  I had some rl friends that had a guild up and going...and in the last couple weeks they lost interest  

I promise I'll stick around this time  

[luckton]

The rifts were pretty cool for the first month, but they got old just like the public quests in Warhammer.  Doing the same thing all the time gets pretty fucking old and there's not much variety to those systems. 

I could stay entertained with Rift, if they were a bit more varied.  I know for a long time during the world events, all you ever saw was the same goddamned Rift encounters over and over.  Each zone has at least 10+ different Rift events, not counting crafting or heroic (go look at the achievements).  Even now past all the events, those WE-unique Rifts still pop up like a plague and prevent me from getting the zone achievement for closing the zone-unique ones 

[Threash]

The rifts were pretty cool for the first month, but they got old just like the public quests in Warhammer.  Doing the same thing all the time gets pretty fucking old and there's not much variety to those systems. 

I could stay entertained with Rift, if they were a bit more varied.  I know for a long time during the world events, all you ever saw was the same goddamned Rift encounters over and over.  Each zone has at least 10+ different Rift events, not counting crafting or heroic (go look at the achievements).  Even now past all the events, those WE-unique Rifts still pop up like a plague and prevent me from getting the zone achievement for closing the zone-unique ones 

For me the rifts were never about doing the content.  I just liked playing in a world were shit was happening all over.  I don't care one whit about closing the rifts or fighting the invasions, but i fucking love that they are happening and that they affect gameplay.

[Riggswolfe]

So...who do we align or declare war with?  

I'm hoping everyone planning on playing, but in non-f13 guilds, will align or declare with BC.

I believe Sjofn wants SLAP on a different servers because she wants her Republitards in a different world from her Imperials. The only SLAP showing up is an Imp guild.

ETA: Only three slots for allies/rivals. Have to be set up for the same server rules for a server match. We're currently rivals with Riggswolfe's guild, so we have two slots left for BC. One reserved for SLAP if they go Republic, RP server and want to be on the same server. If not, THEN FINE! 

My guild is only 8 people, all friends and family so the rivalry will be pretty one sided until the inevitable 2nd month f13 migration! If any f13ers are making a Republic guild feel free to hook up with us as Allies. I'm also hoping that since BW has more or less said that you can make characters of both factions on the same server that I'll be able to make an Imperial alt or two to join BC.

[Ingmar]

We're going Republic/RP so yeah, RIVALS it is. I'll set it up today. And allies with Riggs. We're at all of 13 people ourselves so far, but I expect I'll get a little more signup buy-in as the game approaches.

http://www.swtor.com/guilds/6783/slap-force if you need that for some reason.

[Nebu]

I have a guild of 6 good friends, but I'm not sure which side we'll be playing on.  Maybe we can all play on the same server?

[Sky]

I have a guild of 6 good friends, but I'm not sure which side we'll be playing on.  Maybe we can all play on the same server?

If you go Imperial/RP server, it would close our incestuous ally/rival loop :)

Kinda sucks they limited it, but I can understand it. Tards wouldn't use it like us; to get disparate small clans on the same server. They'd find some stupid thing to do with it.

BC has the numbers on our side...for all of a month.

[DraconianOne]

I'm guessing in advance that there'll be US/EU servers so no point in getting my guild to ally with BC.

[Riggswolfe]

We're going Republic/RP so yeah, RIVALS it is. I'll set it up today. And allies with Riggs. We're at all of 13 people ourselves so far, but I expect I'll get a little more signup buy-in as the game approaches.

http://www.swtor.com/guilds/6783/slap-force if you need that for some reason.

Hey Ingmar, it looks like you went with a different timezone from BC and I so it may not work out. The little display shows us as not being on the same server type. I'm guessing you did U.S. West whereas both BC and my guild went U.S. East

[Ingmar]

Well it isn't like it matters for recruiting, I can change it to East.

Hrm we also have to have 4 people with preorders and their codes punched in, I know we don't have that yet. I'll work on seeing if that will happen.

[Riggswolfe]

Yeah so far everyone in my guild has their preorders which works out well.

[Sky]

I figure a decent amount of BC has pre-orders...whether they admit it or not. 

[Reg]

Because we're all sheep dancing to Bioware Austin's tune!

[Sky]

If only there were someone who could tell us the truth and free us from our delusions.

Since there isn't, I quit my job, broke up with my fiancee and started cooking meth so I have a good stockpile when the Messiah TOR arrives.

[Reg]

The only thing I can think of to add to that is that you should move into your Mom's basement.  I have it on the best authority that pathetic TOR fanboy's all live in their Mom's basements.