SWTOR

[Malakili]

Psst.

Malakili, you don't like mmo.

I don't, you are right.  But sometimes I convince myself I still do.  I played the shit out of MMOs through WoW, and then WoW itself for a long time and then...I burnt out of WoW HARD and haven't recaptured the magic since, I think part of me wants to just have that MMO player feeling again, but maybe I've just changed too much as a gamer at this point.  

EDIT: Actually, what I don't like it targeted, hotkey based combat.  I think I used to be willing to put up with mechanics I didn't like for the sake of the MMOness, I'm just not anymore.

Oh well.

[Lantyssa]

As for Rift.  Different audience, smaller userbase.  As discussed in countless UO threads over the decade, it only takes a small % to make life miserable.  The bigger your userbase the greater the # of that type of player there are, regardless of how big that % is or isn't.

Different audience, older userbase.

[Kirth]

Are we really going to split hairs on gameplay mechanics in a modern mmo? What would be new and innovative? be careful because you could enter the world of press q to breath in and e to breath out.

[Threash]

As for Rift.  Different audience, smaller userbase.  As discussed in countless UO threads over the decade, it only takes a small % to make life miserable.  The bigger your userbase the greater the # of that type of player there are, regardless of how big that % is or isn't.

Different audience, older userbase.

That's ridiculous, the people playing rift are the same ones that played wow and the same ones that are gonna be playing swtor.  And the user base is not all that small.

[Nevermore]

When I heard no auto attack, I thought it would be jamming your 1 key over and over to fill time, just like CoX. I was right.

See, I find not having an auto attack far more engaging.  I like actively doing things.  It's one of the reasons CoX combat is one of my favorites.

[Amaron]

There's some serious rose tinting for CoX combat going on here.   It was quite a step up compared to the shit of the day but it's very slow paced compared to WoW right now.

[Sky]

No, there isn't. The combat in CoX is great, fun for its own sake.

WoW is a pile of shit played by suckers, but to address more directly what you were saying, fast pace does not necessarily equate to 'fun'.

My single biggest issue with mmo combat is the lack of a full one-ahead queue in anything other than EQ2. The half-assed Rift implementation drove me crazy because it lacked the half of the ass that would save you from button-mashing like an amphetamine-fueled moron. Given the WoW-aping going on, I expect to be forced to button-mash in TOR and it's the one thing that could quickly end my enjoyment.

[Kirth]

Didnt one of the kotors have an ability queue? Might still be hope.

[Sky]

Didnt one of the kotors have an ability queue? Might still be hope.

Well, I wouldn't expect a three-ahead KotOR style. But being able to hit an attack and instantly queue the next...then when the animation for that fires off, key in the next attack at any time and it fires off as soon as it becomes available...why the hell not? It's infuriating, especially Rift, because they put it in there...but didn't do it correctly so it may as well not be in.

[Amaron]

WoW is a pile of shit played by suckers, but to address more directly what you were saying, fast pace does not necessarily equate to 'fun'.

No but slow pace is not fun.  CoX is very slow pace on most classes.  I'd rather have something like DCUO combat myself but we'll be waiting a while before we see that in a successful MMO.   WoW has to have it's player base split up before the stuff you guys want will show up.

[Sjofn]

I never found CoX's pace too slow until you ran out of stamina, then it was just sort of painful, but they've addressed that FINALLY (you COULD solve the problem by taking the stamina regen power, whatever way you had to, but that was stupid bullshit and I am pleased a THOUSAND YEARS LATER they finally realized this and fixed it). I didn't have to mash my brawl key after level 10 or so. :P

As for the queue thing, the problem I have with it is it makes combat feel weird and unresponsive to me. It's one of those things, though, where I am just not really going to care that much if it's there or not, especially if it's something you can toggle. In CoX I would queue a power and watch the animations fire off, but it could be sort of odd, plus you knew you'd be rooted to that spot for a while as a result. EQ2's combat was utterly forgettable for me (my most recent attempt to play it was a year ago I think, and it was 100% blah). Everyone knows LotRO's combat issues throughout its history (they have a queue too). And every MMO I've played save CoX and GW eventually has the Too Much Shit to Give a Fuck About problem, it seems.


EDIT: Also, I've PvP'd a lot in WoW recently, and I just ... don't get emote spammed hardly ever. And I'm playing a blood elf boy paladin usually, which is a lightning rod of hate.

[Simond]

This is another title that should have been action based.

When I heard there wasn't going to be auto attack I had hope it might bend a little more towards this sort of combat.  Not action oriented per se, but at least a bit quicker paced and interesting.  It doesn't seem to have panned out that way.  The more real gameplay videos start to trickle out, the more painfully obvious it becomes.

I had myself convinced for a while that the story would be enough for me too, just because I like Star Wars, if the game mechanics didn't pan out, but frankly, I just look at that game and I can't see myself paying money for it.

So you wanted a Star Wars MMO with more twitch?

[Goreschach]

Maybe they could make the combat more fast paced if you had to juggle three lifebars.

[Sky]

So you wanted a Star Wars MMO with more twitch?

I'd fucking be there!

[Reg]

I can't believe someone actually said it.

[tazelbain]

Think of it as a tribute to the greatest thread in F13 history.

[Modern Angel]

See, I find not having an auto attack far more engaging.  I like actively doing things.  It's one of the reasons CoX combat is one of my favorites.

Oh, I'm not passing judgement here. I'm just saying, this game's mechanics are absolutely nothing new and the lack of auto-attack isn't something new, either. Been done. Not sure what anyone expected.

[Reg]

We can still dredge up infinite oil tanks from the ground though, right?  That's twitchy enough for me!

[sam, an eggplant]

The only impact the lack of auto-attack will have on your gameplay is if your internet connection goes out. With autoattack, there was a chance you could kill the monster while offline. Without it, you're dead.

[Sjofn]

We can still dredge up infinite oil tanks from the ground though, right?  That's twitchy enough for me!

They need to add summoning forklifts to that ability.

[Ginaz]

I'd rather have something like DCUO combat myself but we'll be waiting a while before we see that in a successful MMO.  

 

[Crumbs]

Are we really going to split hairs on gameplay mechanics in a modern mmo? What would be new and innovative? be careful because you could enter the world of press q to breath in and e to breath out.

Take a look at the 38 page long GW2 thread.  That stuff sounds newer and more innovative.  The best compliment I've heard about SWTOR in this 266 page thread is "I wasn't expectng anything but a wow clone that will give me new content to go through.  SWTOR is fine L2expectation."

[Ingmar]

You still never answered my question about why SWTOR needs to innovate. 

[sam, an eggplant]

It doesn't "need" to do anything except addict players. Besides, SWTOR has innovated with its tight story integration during leveling. Obviously we'll have to wait and see what the endgame entails. Once the guild beta really opens up, NDA breaks will come fast and furious. I strongly suspect that they will abandon the story-based structure for the endgame and it'll be standard WoW-style battlegrounds and raids, but we'll see.

[Ingmar]

Got around to watching the footage. If they can keep that story integration through the whole leveling process, it's going to be pretty awesome. 

[Mattemeo]

I thought the footage was ok, myself. In fact my principle thought was 'oh wow, an MMO that lets you feel heroic and take on more than one mob at a time without a total pummeling? Yes please!'
Haven't seen that since City of Heroes. Obviously I can't commment much on the actual combat mechanics yet since there were a sum total of 2 attacks used in the whole video, but I'd hope for a nice selection that I can create a fun chain from, just like I did in CoX. I think I might be sticking to melee classes in SWtOR.

[DLRiley]

A wiseman once said "It is not the button you press, or how often your pressing it, but what it actually does."
To be honest I don't mind slow pace combat or fast based combat, I want to have a "think before you do" combat which can be achieved, in any game regardless of what pace if the developers know what they are doing...which they don't hence why we always have a big derp fight over "clicking 8 buttons 2000 times or clicking 1 button 100000 times than clicking 2 buttons 50 times". Its like dogs arguing over the order in which they get to sniff each others ass.

[Amaron]

I'd rather have something like DCUO combat myself but we'll be waiting a while before we see that in a successful MMO.  

 

Ok it'll be a while before we see it in an MMO I'd personally call successful.  Is that better?

[Rasix]

We know you're not likely to get less crazy, so let's just settle for that.

[Amaron]

We know you're not likely to get less crazy, so let's just settle for that.

Yea you guys getting your hopes up for twitch combat are the sane ones.   

[UnSub]

be careful because you could enter the world of press q to breath in and e to breath out.

Would players be banned for macroing that?

I'd rather have something like DCUO combat myself but we'll be waiting a while before we see that in a successful MMO.   

 

DCUO's combat mechanics were pretty solid. That SOE couldn't simultanesously build a working chat system or build a MMO that lasted more than a weekend was the bigger problem.

[Rasix]

We know you're not likely to get less crazy, so let's just settle for that.

Yea you guys getting your hopes up for twitch combat are the sane ones.  

Hah, I actually read your previous statement as "Ok it'll be a while before we see an MMO I'd personally call successful".  So, my bad.  In all fairness to myself, I still think you're fairly bonkers, but not so much on this point.

[Amaron]

 In all fairness to myself, I still think you're fairly bonkers, but not so much on this point.

In my defense this industry is fairly bonkers.  If anything I conclude about it ends up sane I usually revisit my logic process and try to add more crazy.

[Abelian75]

In my defense this industry is fairly bonkers.  If anything I conclude about it ends up sane I usually revisit my logic process and try to add more crazy.

Speaking as someone who has seen this shit from the inside, this is a really, really good attitude to have.  And not just in the negative sense.  People seem to either say developers are brilliant or actively stupid, but both of those possibilities are rendered impossible by the sheer chaos and randomness that actually drives this shit.

[Paelos]

Vids looked fine to me. WoW in space without the stupid shit WoW has now.

Ship ahoy!