SWTOR

[Rasix]

You have EQ1 and a phase of beta for   where there were like 50 people playing? Yah, I'm still not buying it.  As for   (if I'm assuming correctly), view distance is one thing the game seems to have going for it.  I can see for miles.  

Isn't view distance something that tends to be a big performance hit once populations hit "live" levels?

edit: Not that you aren't right, I'm very skeptical.  Draw distance and graphics for me have only been an issue in MMOs where I've been playing with a system that needs a serious upgrade.  Nothing sucks worse than only seeing a small distance in front of you while playing on ugly mode, because any higher setting is a slide show.  I'm pretty confident this won't be the case with SWTOR, but their style of graphics makes this less of a concern anyhow.

[Sky]

Remember I'm a graphics whore. If at one point, the draw-in was waaay out there and now I can see things popping in a couple hundred meters away, it bugs me. Constantly.

Yeah, it's a performance hit. But let /me/ make that call of what to balance (and include a good LoD system). It sucks pegging all the graphics sliders to the right and still having tons of popping structures. I can dial down a lot of things to be able to see a barn three hundred yards away imo.

[Abelian75]

I have seen that happen a couple times with draw distances specifically, and that's probably because for dynamic entities (like mobs and players and shit), that's not just a client-side hit, but also server-side.  That happened with Rift for instance.  For other aspects of graphics prettiness, though, I really haven't seen things "degrade" during betas.

I do agree with you though, pop-in is horrible.  And actually that's one thing WoW does really well.  I still cannot stand to play EQ2 because of the LOD popping.  I wouldn't really consider myself a graphics whore, though.  In fact I'd rather the game look vastly less impressive as long as it looks smooth and clean when you're actually playing it.

[Sheepherder]

Isn't view distance something that tends to be a big performance hit once populations hit "live" levels?

Think back to when they taught you how to compute the volume of a cylinder in geometry (technically it should be a sphere, but cylinder is probably a closer approximation in practice).

[Sky]

I have seen that happen a couple times with draw distances specifically, and that's probably because for dynamic entities (like mobs and players and shit), that's not just a client-side hit, but also server-side.

Yep, I get that. Though EQ2 was pretty good about letting you use primitive LoD to fill in a lot of the distance, it was a server hit for sure (since you still needed the positionals).

But with Rift, it's not drawing static objects. I took a couple screenshots to demonstrate how immersion-breaking it is, forgot to upload them last night. I'd rather see a low-res, low-poly version of an object than have it suddenly appear out of thin air a football field length away.

[Abelian75]

But with Rift, it's not drawing static objects. I took a couple screenshots to demonstrate how immersion-breaking it is, forgot to upload them last night. I'd rather see a low-res, low-poly version of an object than have it suddenly appear out of thin air a football field length away.

Yeah, I agree with you.  From an outside perspective it looks like they just have some data that needs to be tweaked.  They clearly have the ability to have different objects be assigned different LOD distances (probably a multiple of whatever value you set your draw distance to), and indeed they have some objects that will draw waaaay in the distance.  But then there will be the occasional enormous boulder that pops up at the same distance that a bench does.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have seen that happen a couple times with draw distances specifically, and that's probably because for dynamic entities (like mobs and players and shit), that's not just a client-side hit, but also server-side.  That happened with Rift for instance.  For other aspects of graphics prettiness, though, I really haven't seen things "degrade" during betas.

I do agree with you though, pop-in is horrible.  And actually that's one thing WoW does really well.  I still cannot stand to play EQ2 because of the LOD popping.  I wouldn't really consider myself a graphics whore, though.  In fact I'd rather the game look vastly less impressive as long as it looks smooth and clean when you're actually playing it.

I don't believe Wow uses LOD unless you force it too. The objects are low enough already. Also draw distance normally only pertains to landscape, LOD is tied to pixel height.

[Sky]

Just want to take a break from this side topic to insert: I fear for when TOR is released. It looks so epically amazing.

Ok, back to draw distance. I was looking at those screenshots last night. Landscape and trees were fine. There were a couple major pieces visible at a decent distance - I was looking at the Freemarch newb area, so you could see the Bomani portals, for instance. But just about everything else had hellish pop-in.

It's starting to make me crazy, because otherwise the game looks great. And if I can fully max everything at 1080p on my 4-1/2yr old machine (excepting the gtx460), then it's already dated.

[Ingmar]

FWIW there is some wacky stuff there with WoW too. For example, flying around Dragonblight, you can see the Scarlet Crusade cathedral from all the way across the zone, but the much larger dragon tower thing will fade in between you and the cathedral, I think because the cathedral is 'terrain' and the tower is not. It might also be due to phasing of some kind, that messes with things too.

[Mrbloodworth]

Not uncommon to set some items outside the rules. 

[Abelian75]

Sorry, I was indeed referring to the way they fade objects and creatures in rather than just suddenly popping them in.  This isn't anything revolutionary now, but at the time it was really nice.  Both LOD "popping" (like in EQ2 when you take a step forward and suddenly a dude pops into high-detail mode and his cape becomes cloth simulated and falls into position) and actual popping in of a new object irritate me in the same way and I would consider them two elements of the same shitty problem.  Basically, the world not looking smooth as you move through it at normal speeds.

[Mrbloodworth]

Oh, I feel you, have been trying to get them to add a fade in in Wurm. Vanguard had a really unnoticeable system when I was playing it.

[Surlyboi]

That was the one thing Vanguard did right. Oh man, would I have loved to have played a decent game in that world.

[Samprimary]

If Bat Country is pegging itself to Sith and/or a PvP server, know that I'm going to be helping run a guild idea with someone that pitched the idea to me

I just registered X Com on US West Republic, set for a PvE server.

http://www.swtor.com/guilds/115888/x-com

If anyone is interested in signing up with us loons and work towards an affiliate guild structure for endgame content, and just otherwise quest and ~flashpoint~ together, please feel free to sign up!

[eldaec]

Do we have any idea what the pve / pvp rulesets are?

[luckton]

Do we have any idea what the pve / pvp rulesets are?

They commented on that this week.  Right now the beta is open PvP.  They say they'll certainly have PvE servers, and maybe soft-RP servers (RP is encouraged, but not enforced by CSMs).

[Merusk]

If Bat Country is pegging itself to Sith and/or a PvP server, know that I'm going to be helping run a guild idea with someone that pitched the idea to me

RP Server, not PVP.  We're too old and cranky for dealing with the ganking nonsense and RP keeps a decent segment of the baseborn away.

[Lucas]

If Bat Country is pegging itself to Sith and/or a PvP server, know that I'm going to be helping run a guild idea with someone that pitched the idea to me

RP Server, not PVP.  We're too old and cranky for dealing with the ganking nonsense and RP keeps a decent segment of the baseborn away.

[eldaec]

Open pvp is rather vague, I'm guessing they don't mean free for all, all the time. Just rebels and imperial can shoot on sight? Just how much cause do opposing factions have to be in same place? Isn't it mostly in pvp instances anyway?

[luckton]

Open pvp is rather vague, I'm guessing they don't mean free for all, all the time. Just rebels and imperial can shoot on sight? Just how much cause do opposing factions have to be in same place? Isn't it mostly in pvp instances anyway?

My understanding is, on beta right right now, open PvP is faction based.  If you're a Sith on Tatooine and spot a Jedi in the cantina, it's game on.

If Bat Country is pegging itself to Sith and/or a PvP server, know that I'm going to be helping run a guild idea with someone that pitched the idea to me

RP Server, not PVP.  We're too old and cranky for dealing with the ganking nonsense and RP keeps a decent segment of the baseborn away.

I concur.

[Merusk]

Isn't it mostly in pvp instances anyway?

Yes, like WoW.  Which is yet another reason to not bother with a PVP server.  All you're doing is making your day-to-day harder/ more time consuming for no gain. 

[Crumbs]

I like the smuggler starship, it's like the Millenium Falcon with two motor homes welded to it

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/starships/xs-freighter

[Sky]

Or the Ebon Hawk.

[Crumbs]

Or the Ebon Hawk.

The motor homey features are much more accentuated on the XS. 

[eldaec]

Detecting a firefly influence on the interior video.

[Abelian75]

Detecting a firefly influence on the interior video.

Also, on the smugger himself.

[Nebu]

I like the smuggler starship, it's like the Millenium Falcon with two motor homes welded to it

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/starships/xs-freighter

An homage to Spaceballs? 

[Lucas]

Today's update is the map interface in TOR:

http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20110708

[Amaron]

I spy a guy on a classic speeder in that dev blog:

[Paelos]

Pretty.

[HaemishM]

That big arch thing in the background reminds me of the Dwarven area in WoW. 

[Samprimary]

Bonus feature: The map goes semi-transparent once you start moving, so you can keep it up to navigate as necessary.

smart.

[Sky]

Rift does that :) Just another thing that's 'state of the art' and will only be noticed if you don't include it.

Swoop bike: hell yeah!

[Abelian75]

Rift does that :) Just another thing that's 'state of the art' and will only be noticed if you don't include it.

Yeah, I wet myself with excitement over that feature in Rift.  I will say though that it perks my interest that they recognize the coolness of the feature enough to not just steal it, but to bother mentioning it in a post.  Presumably that means there's more than one dude there able to recognize that it's a worth-mentioning feature, which is good.

[Surlyboi]

For what it's worth, SWG let you turn on a semi-transparent map that laid over your hud and turned when you did.