f13.net

Thought we had a thread for this, but I guess the only mention was about AMC picking up the rights in the Mad Men thread.

Anyway, production has started on AMC's six part Walking Dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walking_Dead) series, based on Robert Kirkman's great zombie book by the same name.

io9 has a short behind the scenes production thing and some promotional photos.

http://io9.com/5553571/first-look-at-amcs-walking-dead

Can not wait for this.

Even if it's terrible I'll probably still love it.

It's not a cartoon, though, right?  I love zombie shows and films, but I don't like cartoons.

Did you click on the link? It shows photos of actors right there. :P

Just the first one.  The second one didn't load fast enough so I skipped it.

I'm currently reading the comic and I'm pretty sure I'll love this even if it is terrible!

Ah, it has that actor what is the son of the Jethro Tull guy, Ian Anderson!  He's much cuter.  Thank God.  He was also in that show "Teachers" which I haven't seen but I'd like to.

I'm still not sure why you'd do THIS instead of World War Z.

Brad Pitt's Plan 9 Production company optioned the rights to that a while back, as I recall.

I'm glad is production company got it and not Leonardo DiCaprio's, as they were in a bidding war for it.

Yeah, they're screwing off with the WW-Z movie. It was supposed to start shooting last year. They had a director and apparently the script (by JMS of B5 fame) was fantastic, everyone was raving about how great it was. Currently the script is in rewrite and they're looking for a new director.

Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio should wrestle for it.  I'd watch THAT!  Yum.

Catch the trailer while you can. Great stuff.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/07/26/comic-con-trailer-amcs-the-walking-dead/

Looks much better than the comic, but I'd like to see a weekly WWZ series just as much. There were so many different characters in WWZ I'd be disappointed to see so much cut for a movie.

edit: The Walker Brothers track from the trailer will never be the same for me.

Just read this on a blog

Source (http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/21344)

I like Marc Forster and he's Swiss, nothing can go wrong  :why_so_serious:

Also content:

The same blog could go to the shooting of the Pilot of The Walking Dead : http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/21186 (http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/21186)

480p version of the Comicon trailer here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=319knAYrTRE)

The first I heard of this was this fan made opening credit sequence (http://vimeo.com/15266890) and now my interest is piqued.

Premiers on October 31st.

Let us know how it goes.  UK chaps have a further wait till Friday.

Already up on torrent sites apparently.

Almost watched it last week, but waited due to terrible quality of the rips.

I'd rather not.

I'll wait till it's on in HD on my 50 inch tellybox.  Only a few days away.  Some vague pointers as to if it's worth it would be welcome though.

Hard to say yet.  The first episode covers about the first issue and a half of the comic, ending more or less with the tank scenes they show in the commercials (so before he gets to the camp), so you don't really get to meet a lot of the cast yet.  You get some extended stuff with Morgan and Duane which I thought was pretty good, a bit of Shane, a little of Lori and Carl, and I think Dale maybe gets 1 or 2 lines, and someone who I assume is either Carol, Amy, or Andrea gets a few lines as well.  Until we get a better look at the rest of the cast, it's hard to get a feel for how this is going to turn out.  I'm not convinced with the casting of Rick or Shane yet.  The opening conversation between them feels a bit wooden and awkward, although I think Rick gets a bit better further into the episode.  The zombie makeup and effects are pretty good, and the stuff at the end when he gets to Atlanta I thought was pretty well done also.

Slow. Like the comic. Did you like the comic? You'll like this. My opinion anyways. Actors do a good job, even if we don't get to see many yet. Visual style and pacing is thus far as expected. Not disappointed.

I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I'm a fan of Darabont, and, to a lesser degree, the comic.  It won't blow you away, but as long as you know how to set your expectations you'll probably not be disappointed.  The effects and lighting were nice.  I'll definitely continue to watch.

Liked it. Will continue to watch. Dug the comic though, so that's not surprising. And well, zombies.

Never read the comic. Liked the show. Will watch again.

The lack of logic in this really frustrated me. When they leave the house to kill a zombie they leave the door wide open. Really? And the people on the CB live outdoors in tents? Again really? You could hole up forever in a sturdy building with a few entrances and instead you're living in tents in a trailer park? What exactly prevent zombies from walking in at any time and eating you?

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/Abagadro/comicbookguy_300x566.gif)

I keed.

Meh. That is going to be pretty much ANY Zombie franchise you could ever possibly think of. The Walking Dead isn't quiet what you're thinking of when you think of a typical zombie story. It focuses alot more on the actual survivors and the torment they go through being the survivors. The zombies are pretty much the slowest of the slow movie zombies. Which has been portrayed thus far pretty well I think. I doubt they will follow the comics religiously, but there were large stretches in those where you didn't see a single zombie for many issues. Basically the zombie apocalypse itself just becomes a backdrop to tell the story of these characters. I get the feeling the show itself is aiming to capture that part of the comics. Actual good drama, rather than the campy stuff you typically get in a Zombie film to fill in time between zombie action scenes.
I'll spoiler this bit:

Just think of it this way, you can't keep your guard up 100% of the time in a highly stressful emotional situation like that. They know the limits of the 'Walkers' and their behavior patterns. So they are willing to take small risks here and there so as to live some small semblance of an actual life without having to walk on eggshells all the time.

If you keep watching, you might just get an answer to some of your questions.

I thought it was great but mood wise, it's as depressing as watching East Enders.

But with less zombies.

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8894/kaneklapqo6.gif)

I loved it... it beat my expectations.  VERY good job with acting, effects, and plot.

I could see where being mobile would be an advantage.  Like they said, Zombies one on one are weaksauce - but when they mass in a group you are pretty fucked.

Enjoyed it, really liked the atmosphere in the whole hospital scene. It really will come down to whether or not I give a crap about the characters in the long run, but I'll give it a chance.

Never read the comic, but I like that its going with zombies that still show some faint hint of memory (trying to go home, picking up a toy, etc). Also, I much prefer the classic slow shambling zombie - leads to more of a building sense of dread as they slowly close in.

I think you're right, and that's something that the series seems to be doing that is sorely lacking in a lot of modern zombie fare; that is, the walking dead aren't just monsters, they're actually quite tragic.  I think the principle zombies were depicted with more humanity than I've seen in any film since the original Dawn or Day of the Dead.

I am somewhat torn in discussing this stuff because I've read the comics and don't want to spoil stuff that hasn't happened yet :nda:

Jerk.

Liked the show and I haven't read the comics.

Is this available online anywhere?  (Legally, I mean -- obviously there are always torrents.)

If I recall I do believe AMC is jumping on the online bandwagon.

http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/

I don't see it uploaded; I imagine they will wait at least 3-4 days before hosting it.  Seriously - it is a great show so far.  Like... I am going to regret this... Firefly good.

So far.

Thanks!  Be nice if they could have jumped on one of the existing bandwagons like Hulu or Netflix that will conveniently stream to my PS3.  :-P

Loved it.  Did not read the comic and won't look at the spoilers about what is going to happen.

In case NoWhereMan's  spoiler is putting people off the possible future of the show, it's semi-in joke for those who follow the comics. Basically the writer got the greenlight in the first place for doing the comic by pitching it as "There are zombies, but aliens did it" because trying to pitch YET ANOTHER zombie comic/book/movie didn't seem like the best idea to him to get a go ahead and backing to do what he wanted. So he pitched it that way, then just did his own thing and got away with it because the story was so damn good and getting rave reviews.  :grin:

Well I was interested until Vaiti said the A word; fucking really?

There are no aliens. I was referring to NowhereMan's spoiler in the post at the top of this page.


The spoiler isn't a spoiler. Or at least in 77 issues those aliens have yet to manifest themselves.

I only brought it up really because I thought the pitch that Robert Kirkman used to get his idea published was brilliant.
"Zombies too boring eh? Well then, how about zombies with ALIENS  :why_so_serious:"

Found the IGN interview where he talks about it to make things clearer. http://comics.ign.com/articles/819/819361p1.html (http://comics.ign.com/articles/819/819361p1.html)

Well, there was that fake bit they did at the end of #75.

Oh, ok. You really scared me there; so many movies have gone from mediocre to awful with the sudden introduction of aliens as a plot device.

Same here.

Edit:
I'd like to call for this thread to be spoiler free from anything with the comics.  I already made the mistake in another forum reading a spoiler that talked about something that happens in the comics that we haven't seen yet on TV.

I think that's fair.

I've never read the comics either, but this is my premonition

Yes plz.

Carl is the son's name.  Right?

I liked it. It looks like they are depending on the high standard of acting and dialogue to carry the show, rather than lots of action or zombie moments. That’s great and they achieved it in the pilot, but they need to keep up the quality or it will start to become very talky.

I like the way the zombies are just a tiny bit smarter than the average zombie. It makes them creepier.

Going back to the World War Z stuff (from months ago I know), they are very different stories even if they both involve zombies. World War Z is about how the world changes and copes with a zombie outbreak while The Walking Dead is basically a soap opera with zombies in it.

Changes ?  Yeah, partly that;  but for me World War Z was more about how unprepared our world is for disaster and how we are just now actually speeds up the apocalypse.

But hey, maybe I'm projecting.

That's exactly what I was thinking of. For anyone interested (this will not be a spoiler for the show in any way probably)

My fiancee thinks I love anything with a zombie in it, but in reality I like very few zombie movies. The best by far is the original Night of the Living Dead (followed by the remake), and I think this series really seems to capture what made it great. It's not about zombies. It's about how people react to such a horrific event. If your movie is about fast zombie action, it can be a fun movie but totally miss the point. 28 Days Later is the exception to this, because they melded the action and human drama well.

For lighter zombie movies, Return of the Living Dead and Shaun of the Dead. I think that's about it, most zombie moves are awful.

So far, episode one has pulled out all the standard (but effective) zombie gags. I hope two will start getting creative.

Is there a place to view this online yet?  Couldn't seem to find it on AMC's site.

No.

Download from USENET. Several versions are available.

They just posted the first episode (http://www.amctv.com/originals/The-Walking-Dead/video?bcpid=86227333001&bclid=648729362001&bctid=659216515001), but seem to be indicating the rest won't be online.

I thought it was fantastic.

What is a USENET?

It's like SKYNET, but with less more murderous robots.

Newsgroups. Back in the old days we used newsgroups and downloaded "binaries".

Not sure why anyone would do that today when they could torrent it instead, not that I'm suggesting a torrent, no sir.

Because torrents suck giant bags of dick in comparison. There's not a single advantage that torrents offer, and a considerable number of drawbacks. My USENET provider has a two year retention and I regularly download 20-30 gigs in a day. There is nothing being offered via torrent that is not uploaded to USENET at the same time, and once it is it's there for a couple years. Also I've yet to find a torrent client that wasn't a giant bag of ass that required a ton of fiddling to get decent speed and still somehow managed to be a resource hog. Torrents are fine if you don't mind leaving the client running constantly while it shits up your performance with the understanding that it'll finish when it finishes, but I like the fact that when I want something I can have it in it's entirety within a half hour regardless of what it is, and with no performance hit.

Torrent isn't better in any sense, it's just newer and "cool".

Why must USENET be capitalized? 

cause they hoped USENIX would take it over?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USENIX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USENIX)

It was a joke.

But i like the skynet explanation better than the real thing. :grin:

Solid start.  More please.

I also liked the utter lack of Adverts throughout.  I can only hope that's going to continue (though I'm sure it's not).

Why is it people are dumbasses when confronted with Zombies ?  Seriously, watch a fucking film or two.  Read a book.  Then don't charge into a fucking million of them with a handgun.

It wouldn't be fun that way.

There's a book about a world of zombies called Feed where the survivors have all named their children George or Georgia, because George Romero is credited with saving the human race by teaching us how to fight zombies.

Just watched the first episode now (yeah, I'm lagging behind). Liked it.

I hope the real zombie apocalypse gets here soon, so all the stuff I've learned about surviving such events doesn't go to waste. Examples:

• Before the apocalypse actually starts, invest in a solar-power-driven car. It will save you having to go into seemingly abandoned, but in reality zombie-infested gas-stations which will turn out to be empty of any spare gas anyway.
• Do not play loud music, it will attract zombies.
• Do not have lights on at night, it will attract zombies.
• Do not fire your gun(s) unless absolutely necessary for survival. It will attract zombies.
• Do not accidentally bump into any cars. The alarm will go off, and it will attract a lot of zombies.
• Do not step on broken glass with bare feet - wounds slow you down, can get infected (a different sort of infection) and then kill you.
• Do not hesitate to shoot your zombie-friends and/or family in the head, preferably with a shotgun. They're no longer people, only broken husks. Hesitating at this point will only give them a chance to attack you first, after which you'll still have to shoot them.
• Do not go to any safe shelters announced on the radio and/or written on walls in blood. The shelters seldom stay safe for long. More likely than not, the infection will get there before you do.
• Keep an eye out for any other survivors who start showing symptoms of being infected. If you don't know the symptoms, assume anything out of the ordinary is a symptom and unless they can prove they're not infected, shoot them in the head with a shotgun.
• There's always a single can of coke left in any given soda vending machine even if the rest of the supermarket has been cleaned out. The can is just stuck, and you'll have to work to get at it.
• Killing zombies with a katana is pretty cool. Until you get scratched/bitten. Just stick with the guns and kill them at a distance.
• Set fire to the tank, then avoid him until he is dead.

Fleshed out the first couple of issues beautifully, and they've got some cast with actual acting chops; alive and dead. I'm loving the zombies. They're absolutely visually spot-on - straight off the pages with their lipless mouths and cold dead eyes - but the heart-wrenching pathos of watching them is oh so much more awful.
The existential dread of Rick's awaking into nightmare was really nicely shot and expertly paced, too. I've read the comics and even I was holding my breath during the stairwell in the dark sequence.

IF they can keep this up over the rest of the series, I think we'll be watching something very special indeed.

Well, look at what the director did with Shawshank, I've never seen a more true to the source than that movie from the novel.

Hell, he even had Morgan Freeman answer the same way the Irishman in the book did.

I'm impressed that when fleeing the zombie apocalypse,

Man, you just know Michael Rooker is gonna be back with one hand sawed off or some shit, looking for revenge. If we're nitpicking, I'll suggest that 15 seconds worth of rain isn't going to have any real effect on the odor of someone covered in offal with HUMAN ENTRAILS LOOPED AROUND THEIR NECK. It could have rained bleach for a million years and I can't imagine it would make much difference.

AMC is awesome

Second episode did not disappoint. I was on the edge of my seat, nervous as hell through the whole thing. All of the characters feel like real people thanks to both the writing and the excellent acting. I avoided seeing scenes from next week just to keep the element of surprise. I particularly liked the part..

He even improved on King's The Mist. How often is the movie better than the book/short story with genre flicks? I'd say Kubrick with 2001 & Arthur C. Clarke's The Sentinel, but that's about all I can think of. Maybe the Slaughterhouse Five movie, but both versions are great.

Darabont is one of the best.

It's good to have shows like this without paying extra for HBO or Showtime.

This episode deviated from the comic quite a bit, and from the looks of it so does the next episode.  Not complaining at all, as it makes it a bit more suspenseful for those of us who've read the books.  It also offers up some hope that maybe they'll be open to avoiding some of the less popular plot elements of the comics.

First two have been excellent, I've read a lot of comics so I'm not scared of spoilers and I really like the look of episode 3 from the preview.

I would rate AMC's general cinematography for most of their shows as superior to anything I encounter on HBO, with the exception of maybe Deadwood.

Enjoying this a lot, I like the pacing. Hope they maintain those production values throughout.

"Coming next week" needs to fuck right off from TV shows, or at the very least be moved right to the end of the credits. I now hit the off button the *instant* credits start on most shows and I hate not watching end credits. Credits and title sequences serve as a transition from the real world to the world of the show or film and back again, and not having that is jarring and annoying.

What fucking fantasy world do you live in ?

Over here, end credits serve for something to be minimised to the side while some fuckwit drones on about 'COMING UP NEXT ON THE PENIS CHANNEL'.  Doesn't matter HOW MUCH you wanna know who that lassie was, or how much you like the theme music at the end, they've been getting fucking spoiled for about 10 years now.

Ugh, yeah, that sucks too. 99% of the time I watch things on DVD rather than when they're broadcast for exactly this kind of reason. Plus no adverts.

We saw the end of Anchorman on cable and they split the screen for the (sped-up) credits....left hand of the screen was the credits for Anchorman. Right hand of the screen was the opening sequence....of Anchorman.  :uhrr:

I also hate the spoiler teasers, my fiancee loves them and gets upset that I stop them. I've now learned to pause it and leave the room so she can watch them (she forgets almost everything she watches on tv, it's kind of amazing kind of scary).

She probably forgets all the annoying shit you do too.  So it balances out. I figure my wifes memory is the only reason she's with me.

Next Time On is a device I don't actually mind when it's done properly.  Spartacus, for example, was really well done with that.

What really bugs me is when they end on a possible fatality and then the 'next time on' shows the chap eating ice cream.  Way to miss the fucking point.

Other than the rain bit and knowing the hick is going to show up again, awesome second episode. Much like the first, it managed to keep me nervous all through out waiting for the moment someone gets jumped. It'll actually have to happen soon to keep that up because it's creating an atmosphere I haven't seen come out of any other show.


Can't agree more. Spartacus nailed what it means to give a reason for the viewers to look forward to the next week.

I also really hated BSG's preview thing, where they'd flash clips of the current episode you were watching during the last part of the opening credits.  Since they would often put some major spoiler in there somewhere, like a quick flash of an important ship blowing up or something.   :oh_i_see:

Loving the show so far.  Seems like a very good adaptation of the comics.  The specifics are different, but the scenes and plot are all exactly the same.

Though the tank thing reminds me of when I first saw that scene in the comics.  Seriously, wtf could even a horde of these zombies do against a tank?  Or a fortified military position?  How did the guys in the tank even die?  They wouldn't even need to shoot!  Just drive up and down the street like killdozer, killing thousands.  I love the genre and all, but it always does make me sort of laugh at these situations when your dealing with classic style zombies (and not the newer "fast zombies" we see more).

I thought the ending of Shaun of the Dead did a great job of making fun of this.

Love the show, but I'm glad i wasn't the only thinking this. I mean it looked like the had plenty of time to set up a functioning barricade, how in the hell were they overrun?

 :uhrr:

 :oh_i_see:

If you haven't read World War Z, you should.

Fantastic depiction of the scenario you're talking about.

Occam's razor says one of the tankers was hiding an infection and thinking he'd be alright... until he wasn't.

The halloween episode of Community did a great job of this. "I thought I'd be the one that was immune!"

Well that's the reason why zombie movies always start AFTER the apparent apocalypse and collapse of everything. It really wouldn't be all that difficult to manage and contain.

Yes.  Yes it would.

We can't even contain a fucking flu virus.  And people with the flu don't get back up and chew on your fucking neck.

 :uhrr:

If we could go around blowing the heads off anybody who coughed, the flu would be gone forever.  You see zombie, you exterminate zombie, it's less like a disease outbreak than it is a pest infestation.

You're just making my point for me.  I think humans probably WOULD wander around blowing the heads of everyone who coughed.  Which leads to mass panic, confusion, paranoia, people left and right protecting relatives and friends, fleeing countries, spreading that cough.

Fucking Hell, just read World War Z.  It's plausible enough, I'm afraid.

Further, you add in an infection period over 24 hours and your whole world is fucked.

Anyway, here's my main point :

STOP FUCKING UP A ZOMBIE STORY THREAD WITH 'OMG THIS IS SO UNREALISTIC'.  FUCK OFF YOU HOSERS.

In other news, part 2 for Brits tomorrow.  Can't wait.

:oh_i_see:

I'm sure no would hide being infected until it was too late to do anything about with that attitude going around.

Which reminds me of one of the standard Zombie problems I always think about that I can't think of a single film addressing off the top of my head. What happens when you just kick the bucket unexpectedly from natural causes in the middle of the night while sleeping with the rest of the survivors. PARTY TIME.

Only an issue in a world where anyone who dies becomes a zombie (e.g. the "cosmic space dust"/"act of God" scenario, like the Romero films), rather than requiring direct exposure to the "infection" (most other zombie movies I've seen).

I feel like in some Romero-type stories (but maybe not any of the Romero movies) there's been the idea of post-apocalyptic settlements having everyone sleeping behind zombie-proof doors to make sure that people who die in their sleep stay contained and don't eat everyone else.  Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard as long as your zombies can't handle doorknobs or ladders or whatever.

There's two types of zombie story really :  Infection causing ambulation and death doing it.

The death doing it one is rarer because, frankly, it's pretty wank.  There have, however, been stories like you suggest and it pretty much works how you suggest.  Brooks wrote one about survivors holing up with the infected and being fucked from inside.

The infection thing is also a get out clause for 'What about the people in the ground already' cliche.

On the other hand, if existing reasonably-fresh corpses do get up when the apocalypse starts... yeah, no fucking way that's being contained.  Nobody gets time to figure out what's going on before a zombie is chewing on their face because nobody lives that far from the nearest ground zero.

You and I know that containment won't work short-term anyway.

I have my retreat point all worked out.  Hell, Brooks even mentioned it in his account.   :why_so_serious:

I loved World War Z and I love this show, but if there were a real zombie outbreak it would be exterminated in short order. As soon as everyone is alarmed enough to lock themselves indoors and the local SWAT team is deployed to take out zombies, that's pretty much it. Biting is a pretty shitty and ineffective way to spread a disease.

The Flu is Airborne. If the zombie infection is too, then yea we be fucked, but it's usually biting or whatever, like Rabies.

What if the zombies had mechs though?  I mean, mechs are clearly superiors to the tanks the army would be using to reign in this mess.

Hey, there's a Tron thread just down there somewhere.  Why not pop in and discuss the relative merits of Human Digitisation.

No, really, go.  I heard they have cake.

You know, in the Black Company books (anybody else been reading those?), there are some fairly realistic portrayals of how a military company can hold out against supernatural enemies such as this.  Lets discuss.

I live in Miami and a concern about living here is being in a potential zombie bottleneck. To the east is the Atlantic. West is the Everglades. South is the Keys and Cuba. North is densely populated cities and 'burbs for dozens of miles. Whenever I jump into a backyard pool, I find myself looking for escape routes in case zombies show up while I'm swimming.  :uhrr: (I actually wrote "chow up" the first time)

I did like the take on Cuba from Brooks, although I think the country would more easily fall into chaos rather than what he portryed.

It's been a while since I read the Walking Dead comics but

Don't read the following spoilers if you haven't read the comic:

Just a general question:

Has the show revealed how long it has been since the outbreak started? I feel like it was discussed in the first episode but I missed it.

Not that I can recall - it seemed to jump pretty directly from "cop got shot" to "cop wakes up from apparent coma in completely dilapidated hospital."  :uhrr:

I thought maybe when we were camped in the house with the dude and his boy and they were relating to Rick? what was going on.

We can assume it started directly after his buddies last visit.  The flowers end up all wilted when he wakes up; maybe one of the science types can give us an estimate on how long it takes them to wilt.

He would have had to have woken up no more than a week to ten days after his last IV, or else he would have died from dehydration. Lots of stuff can change that - mostly shortening it, but three to ten days without water is pretty much the range that people die in.

As far as zombies and whatnot, virus/bacteria zombies are impossible physiologically. Muscles need ATP to work at all, and being dead - especially the not breathing part of it - means no ATP. That's why dead people get rigor mortis until they start to decay enough for the muscles to break down. But even then, they wouldn't be able to use any of their muscles without ATP, plus their muscles are all fucked up or they wouldn't have relaxed to begin with, so there you go. All you need to do to avoid dying in a zombie apocalypse is to not french kiss/fuck/do IV drugs with the completely immobile zombies for about a month until they all decay/get eaten by maggots/get tossed in zombie fires. The only sort of zombie that would actually work is a magically animated zombie.

TLDR: Zombies that don't breath are identical in every way to a corpse except for more moaning. Except they're not breathing so they're not moaning either. Fuck, for all we know, every person who's ever died has actually become a zombie...

Agree. An infection based zombie appolocapse won't get very far. However if it was old school dead rising zombies than there is a good chance that everyone is fucked because even at most it make take 3 months to contain the initial outbreak. But once a year lapses...err yeah everyone's boned and less prepared. It will take another year before people realize that it isn't an infection and they need to cremate every corpse.

I really don't care about realism but I draw the line at characters doing retarded shit like not closing the front door of their house or living in a tent. That simply does not make any sense. I close my front door when I go outside and I don't have to worry about Zombies. Also I don't like sleeping in tents because of bugs - not Zombies, bugs.

:awesome_for_real: :heart: :awesome_for_real:

Fuck me.

OK.

Ok, if we're going to do this, let's do it properly.

The realism in the show was totally fucked for me when Rick woke up a mere ten days or so later and then when he wandered around it was clearly shown that the apocalypse had the whole 'the bushes, shrubs, trees and flowers are all overgrown' look.  This isn't I am Legend (fucking be there) where things have been falling apart for years.  It's a mere ten days later.  The flora would be fine.

Oh, and you know what ?  I don't think the zombies in this show could possibly be real.  I mean, some of them are wearing clothes that just don't look right.  I wasn't sure, but in some of the footage I saw (50 inch HD set here) they just looked like, I dunno, actors in makeup.  I mean, wtf, right ?

Sometimes people need a TV that will issue them with a timeout for things like this. "Muscles need ATP? That's 10 minutes of no zombies for you mister, go sit on the suspension of disbelief step." Kind of like supernanny for pricks :awesome_for_real:

And yet we're drowning in vampire shows.  Fucking DROWNING in them.  And I'm not hearing a lot of 'but vampires couldn't exist.'  Cause, you know, Porphyric Anaemics, right ?  Oh, and you put a couple of sluts in Tron and it's ok too.  Hell, you want suspension of disbelief problems ?  Did you watch Dexter ?  Good God.

I sat as a kid and watched NotlD and I couldn't sleep for weeks.  I love zombies.  And you assholes are ruining it for me.

Adenosine Triphosphate.  Really.  You drag me back to Mr Kelly and my biology lessons when all I want to do is watch some guy say 'The Basements the place to stay !  We'll be safe there' as his daughter eats his fucking guts.

(Actually, was it Mr Kelly ?  I'm not sure he did Biology.  I remember his daughter though.  She was hawt.  I wonder what happened to her.)

28 days later...?  :awesome_for_real:

28 Days Later was not a real zombie story precisely because only people who were infected became monsters. In a real zombie story, everyone who dies for whatever reason comes back as a zombie. Otherwise it's not a zombie story.

Furthermore

Wasn't comparing the two. Was making a shitty attempt at a joke.

That said, still a quasi-zombie story. And damn well told at that.

It was a fine joke. I was merely making a very important point about zombies.

I'm with Ironwood on this.

Zombies are awesome.  Zombie stories are awesome.  Creepy little zombie girls, even more awesome.

I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the zombie outbreak could've been going for a while and only just reached the quiet town, and I guess, within 7 days, all hell broke lose?

His 'friend' brought him those flowers on his way out of town?

Lets be honest, there are usually a few things per episode that (even in a zombie scenario) don't much sense.

I can't even recall how many zombies movies have survivors in a zombie-filled city but yet, somehow, are able to drive cars/trucks/whatever around the streets and avoid EVERY SINGLE OTHER CAR and/or zombie. It seems once survivors get in their get-away vehicle, all the dilapidated cars and zombie hordes conveniently avoid the middle of the streets. We have asian-dude able to drive his shiny dodge challenger all over the downtown streets that are now empty of cars/zombies. Whatever.

Or how about the "lets chop this zombie into tiny bits" scene? Most of the 'choppers' didn't wear a mask or any protective clothing. I'm pretty sure chopping up a zombie corpse with an AXE is going to send blood and guts flying, yet people are standing around watching it with mouth agaped. Good idea. Or how about passing around a mask full of zombie guts? The guts were on the INSIDE because some dumbfuck took it off using gut-filled gloves. If one person takes a swing and the mask swings back and hits them in the mouth ITS OVER FOR THEM.


Thats the kind of "wait a second.... eh whatever" moment I go through in zombie movies/tv shows. I've moved past the "Hey, wait a second, if that zombie's leg is broken how can he walk?"

I didn't even notice any of the things you people are complaining about until I read them here. 

Just relax and enjoy the show for what it is, good plot, acting, and effects.

I was staring intently at Rick's hands the entire time he was chopping and doling out guts, and he definitely got some shit on his skin. Like, twice.

And hey, what about the klansman left on the roof? Why did anyone feel bad for him? He woulda just raped the women and killed the black dude and the Asian the first chance he got.

It took me a while to understand that the black dude probably locked the roof access door to protect that asshole from the zombies ...

It's not realism in terms of whether something could exist that anyone cares about. At all. Even a cursory knowledge of the sorts of things people around here like should tell you that. It's whether it could really kill you if it did in fact exist.

That's what every good zombie story has told us EVER, back to Romero.

It's not the zombies you should be afraid of.  It's the humans.

Name a zombie story where the zombies were the bad guys.  Seriously.

That's what really freaked me the fuck out the first time I watched it, before I even knew America, before I even knew about Black people, before I even knew about history.  This black guy survives the zombie onslaught at this abandoned house and the next day he's shot by the rescue party.

The Zombies scared me.  The Posse Horrified me.

Also, protip chaps :  We're a week behind.  If you're going to talk about the black rapist dude that totally gets killed, can you at least wait another 4 hours ?

Ta.

Fucking. This.

Seriously, the people have always been the real horrors in any of these stories. Man's inhumanity to man doesn't take a breather just because the world's come to an end.

The bit in NotLD when the rednecks shoot the hero is one of my favorite moments in cinema. The whole movie is one of my favorites, but that scene, in the time period it came out with a strong black hero, was just some great commentary. I can't even imagine having seen that in the theater in 1968.

First, ok, sorry I even brought up the tank and started all this.  I'm actually with you Ironwood.  I love love love zombie movies.  I a huge fan of the genre.  I have no problem suspending my belief when watching these movies.  I was just pointing out something I thought was funny when I read the comics the first time.  It's a quirk of the genre that somehow zombies always overrun all armed resistance and I happily run with that.  I just sort of find it funny when a story directly throws the absurdity of it in your face by directly showing that slow zombies somehow took out a bunch of tanks.  Usually it happens off camera, and is just implied.  That's it!  I have no problem at all really!

Second, why are all of you assuming he was in a coma for only a week or two?  Its been a long time since I've read the comic, but I'm pretty sure he was in the coma for many months before waking up.

I think everyone means a week since the zombie outbreak, not a week total. 

Rick also mentioned at the start they'd been drifting apart.  One wonders why.

 :oh_i_see:

OK, I've seen episode two.  Apocalypse situation, some people need shot in the head.  It's really simple.  Stop having emotional angst about it.  Shoot bad men in the head.  Oh.  And Zombies.

Her husband was shot, fell into a coma and supposedly got eaten by zombies. She moves on. Good for her.

If anyone's a dick, it's the police partner but I can't even get upset about that.

The guy on the roof will be ok, and will probably free himself.

When the clumsy black guy was running to unlock him, he kicked over a toolbox where one of the tools was a hacksaw. Who knows, it could have landed close enough to guy-on-the-roof (don't remember his name) for him to cut himself free.

or they could have just showed him kicking over the toolbox to show him fall. But I like my theory.


oh, and moving on = fucking your husbands best friend? In a zombie apocalypse? A week after your husband could probably be 'assumed' dead?

riiiiiiiight.

We do not know if its been a week.  Or Two.  The hospital was pretty damn fucked up - as if they were under siege.  As far as we know someone was changing out his IV constantly, and once the group decided to move on they left him as a lost case. 

Our only hint of time is the flowers.  I am not a botonist, how long can your average flowers last assuming they have a source of water in the vase?

 :awesome_for_real:

I AM a botanist! Flowers last about a week in water before they start looking like shit. Without water, they dry up. But once they're dry, they stay that way indefinitely, so flowers are an unreliable indicator of the passage of time. Rick's IV bag is, however, a very useful indicator.

Edit: my main beef with them not establishing the timeline is this: the hospital looked like something out of Silent Hill. After a week or two? The fuck? And why didn't any zombies smell the "vivre" on Rick and eat his guts out?

I don't think their intent with the flowers was to accurately show how much time had passed just that time had passed. It's as good a metric as anything else you can find but I honestly don't think they were planning how wilted the flowers were.

Yeah, me neither.

Ask yourself how long will it take for the US army to roll a tank into the middle of Atlanta because the situation was that bad?

That is a good point.

TBH I detracted points for the opener. It was cool when 28 days later did it.

Someone was kind enough to barricaded his room with a bed(or desk). Which come to think of it wouldn't prevent a determined zombie from getting in but whatever...

He probably smelt like shit too.

And pointing that out was cool 6 or 7 years back, when the first issue of the comic came out. It's something Kirkman has addressed on a number of occasions.

Didn't read the comic, so please spoil.

I subtracted points at first too but they obviously want you to discover the full-fledged outbreak along with the main character. How else could they do it? Coming back from a mission in space?

Ehrm, yeah it was cool then. Except seeing a guy's dick unnecessarily for a strangely long time. The theater I was in sure got a hoot out of, though.

 :oh_i_see:

The more I think on it, the less I like Whore Lori.  In the comics, she merely made one mistake and regretted it enormously.  I guess it's more dramatic to have her be a whore who likes it from behind while her wedding rings look on, but it bothers me a little.

Perhaps it's meant to.

If there was ever a way to measure such a thing, I think that episode 2 is responsible for the most people screaming "whore" simultaneously at a single person/character in all of history. In fact, every time I see her in a commercial I can't help but mutter "slut" under my breath.

Not a spoiler.  Kirkman was asked about this again recently by Entertainment Weekly, so here's his response:

Oh that's sad  :heartbreak:

 :grin:

Yes.  Almost certainly.  The foreshadowing was there.

So good.

And rednecks are so dumb.

I think enough details were dropped in the last episode to confirm that the outbreak had been going on for more than a week or so. They made it pretty clear that the hospital kept running after the outbreak started. Assumably, nurses were still around changing his IV, and there was a plan in place to medivac the patients. They had hundreds of bodies piled up at the hospital, so obviously there was some organized effort to control the outbreak for a while, until eventually it overran them. So assumably he woke up a few days to a week after the hospital fell.

Now that does bring in to question
Zombie impossiblities - fuck off - zombie disease obviously converts ADT or P or whatever out of the guts the zombies eat, thus why they are always hungry. Duh.

Wife may be a whore, but she tries to deal with it in episode three. Partner guy has anger issues.
Only one real nitpick -

In the third episode, how in the hell  

To be fair, they did show in the first episode that many of the streets were deserted if there was nothing to attract the zombies. Rick rode all the way in to downtown before he saw any. Thus why the people in the store got pissed off when he started shooting in the street and attracted so many of them.

HELL YEAH!  Didn't read the rest of your usual "I'm Ironwood, hear me roar!" crap, but I can get onboard with that!

It's a shame.  Your opinion means so very much to me.

I thought it was hilarious that they were afraid to eat the zombie chomped deer but boondock saints dude was hunting with arrows he pulled out of zombies and wiped on his pants.

Well, he IS a redneck.

If we had a zombie Apocalypse the rednecks will be the first to survive.

Because zombies eat brains?

Rednecks are less likely to live in the city.
Rednecks are more likely to own a gun.
Rednecks are probably more prepared for living outdoors.
Rednecks are more liking to have blue collar skills necessary for rebuilding post apocalyptic world.

Nah... I'll go with the brains theory  :awesome_for_real:

I caught that too, but then I thought he was only reusing the arrows for zombies. It just makes good sense.  :oh_i_see:

Because sitting in a trailer, slamming PBR, and collecting unemployment teaches you all the hunting/building/survival skills necessary to survive the zombie apocalypse.   :awesome_for_real:

The trailer is a defendable position  :drill:

The good thing about watching this a week later than you chaps, is that I get to watch out for some of the stuff that bugged you.

Redneck chap was hunting the deer and plugged it.  Then he hit the zombie (which was specifically stated as the first one they've had up here) and then he's shown cleaning the arrows in order to rid them of zombie gunk.  So it's not as bad as all that.   :awesome_for_real:

A good episode and I'm glad they're making it more complicated than the original;  my earlier rant about Slut Lori was thrown into disarray given her fight with Shane.  That said, she's still an awful slut and I don't like her.  (She was hateful in the comic too.)

Is everyone else who's watching this just saying 'well, he/she wasn't in the comic, so they're marking time ?'

Wife-Beater scene was most excellent.  One wonders how long he'd have lasted with Michonne.  Milliseconds perhaps ?

Slut wife went from somewhat reasonable to intolerably bitchy. Her fight with Shane was so artificial with the only explanation being she is on her period.

"You said he was dead!"
"Well, he was 1. In an overrun hospital. 2. in a coma. 3. surrounded by zombies..."

If Shane slapped her I would have cheered.

wah?  Fight seemed pretty realistic to me.  I'm pretty sure he probably told her he saw him die for certain, so that there was no way she could hold out any hope.  It was probably practical for the time, since they needed to move out but she wouldn't leave him, but that would piss just about anybody off.

Yeah, I sat through the fight thinking 'What ?  You're the one that took it like a bitch from behind, what are you so pissed off for ?  You SLUT'.  Then it all crystalised with her explanation.  Shane didn't just help her out, like the comics, Shane deliberately told her 'Yeah, I saw him expire' which brings it to an all new level of douchebaggery.

Because this is in no way a spoiler now, in the comics she did Shane once and only once in a moment of weakness. Even then she still managed to come off as a horrible slut. mostly because she was balling Shane without knowing it Rick was dead. They up and left town with him the care of the hospital.

In the TV series things are being portrayed in a much different light. The hint that Shane , as Ironwood put it, outright told her that Rick had expired and he had seen it happen, bring a totally new twist to the story. One I'm appreciating.

"You told me he died!"
"He should have   :oh_i_see: "
"You BASTARD!"
"Oh come on baby its the zombie apocalypse  :drill:"

That was amazingly good.

I really didn't expect the gangers to be that deep of an enemy. That was not expected at all.

Of course, to hear there are only 2 episodes left this season made me :headscratch:.

Well, they only set it up originally as a miniseries, so...there ya go.

That said, AMC has already paid for the 13 episodes for next season.

Is it just me, or where there a bunch of random people getting bit/eaten in the attack at the end that I never saw hanging around before?

No, I was thinking that as well.   I thought Latino family-man guy got jumped on and eaten, then oh, there he is, and he has a different shirt on, so I guess that wasn't him getting munched on.  There were like at least 3-4 people I had no idea who they were.  Very confusing. 

Zombies, the biggest trolls in fiction  :drill:

Yeah, the pulled a LOST with the sudden death of countless people I had never seen before.

Only one of which anyone apparently gives a shit about. Of course, we had seen her before.

I like the remaining Redneck Brother, by the way. He really is somebody to have around after the Zombie apocalypse.

This Show Rocks.

Well, that seems to be a pretty big depaarture from the comic if I remember correctly. For those of you seeing this a week late you can just skip to the last 15 minutes. There's nothing of any note that happens in the first 45

angry.bob is a cynic, watch the whole damn episode, was good, and this is the largest departure from the comics yet, so especially watch the whole thing if you read the comics. From here on I expect some pretty cool shit. iirc, this got the flag for season 2 yeah?

Yeah, they ordered another season three weeks ago.  Also, it'll have 13 episodes instead of the 6 we got this time around.

angry.bob is correct.  Nothing fucking happened. 

 

I find myself constantly agreeing with redneck brother and being constantly annoyed by almost every other character.  Does this make me a bad person?

Nope, just the shows target audience  :grin: I think most of those characters are annoying on purpose, you don't want them around during the zombie-end-of-the-world. You would want Glen and the redneck. Maybe rick.

Another excellent episode from beginning to end. Some damn fine acting and some reminders of the horrors both physical and emotional that something like this would take out on someone. Decisions you'd have to make that would be just plain awful. Even worse if you've got a family. It's a pity some would have you fast forward to the end just to see what happens. You're missing out. Unless, of course, you're soulless. Then never mind. Go ahead and fast forward through all the human parts and get to the guns, zombies and stuff. *thumbs up*

Viscerally it was a weaker episode, but if you ask me, character development is still "stuff happening."


I loved it, and can't wait to see where it goes.

Brogarn nailed it I think. This episode was all character development. And it was done very well I feel. There was pretty much no action in this episode.

People who think nothing happened this episode are the reason TV is mostly shit.

Cliched, obvious, boring are the three words that come to mind regarding the 'character development' of last episode.  Watching characters going through stages of grief is something that is better shown with change in demeanor over time, and not shoved down your throat in one marathon session.  The one good bit of development, not surprisingly, had to do with a relationship between living characters.  This episode utterly abandoned the best part about the survival-horror genre, which is a naturally exciting and often unexpected pacing over which character development to occur.

The reason TV is mostly shit is because of reality shows raking in $ for extremely low production costs.

This episode

This was originally only supposed to be a mini series.  They didn't have the luxury of taking a long, gradual approach to character development when the writers only expected to have 6 episodes to tell their story.

I watched the whole episode. Just browsed the internet during the first 45 minutes since it looked incredibly boring. It really was a waste of time and I highly suggest just FFing till the final 15.

I admit I jumped at the exact same scene Vaiti did - it caught me off guard. It was a character building episode certainly, but it was well done.

My assumption for the next episode:

I

I hadn't thought of it that way, that makes sense too.

How many days after the episode aired can we stop spoilering?

Seven.

Sounds like a plan.

This show is awesome. So glad it's not on a premium channel!

I just wish either A&E or Hulu were streaming episodes online. Unless they are somewhere and I just don't know it.

I disagree.  I think also if you watch the whole series in a oner, you'll note that the release of tension in this episode works really nicely with the tense camp attack.  It's just a shame that doesn't come across so well given that the episodes are a week apart.

It's almost done (Ad Break at the mo) and I've enjoyed it enormously. 

Did no one watch the scenes from the next episode?

I generally avoid those sorts of things.

Having stumbled upon this in the last week, I feel the same way. It seems that you can get the episodes via iTunes, and some other places. I guess I'll have to look at the whole "TV shows on my Xbox" thing.

Point of contention in my house. She loves them, I never watch them as a rule. For stuff like the Tudors, I'd just pause it and leave the room so she could watch them.

AMC is showing all the episodes tonight if you missed any. 

Apparently, we watched two different shows, because I thought it was spectacular.

I'm pretty sure the scientist said...

 :awesome_for_real:

Whoever writes the dialogue for this show much be related to George Lucas.
It is that awful.

fixed!

Its interesting how the people in this thread either absolutely love the show, or absolutely hate it.  I absolutely love it, so fuck the rest of you.

I don't absolutely hate it. It's just that it's a lot like Lost - everything of importance that happens is because of writers' deus ex machinas ("environmental reasons") rather than being properly character-driven.

The funny thing is that:

a) The episode you're complaining about in your example was the one written by Robert Kirkman (the guy who writes the comic).

and,

b) While they're taking a bit longer to get from point a to point b than the comic did and adding in a lot of new stuff, if the next few seasons are anything like the comic at all, your criticism that they're unwilling to kill important characters will seem ridiculously invalid.

So yeah. Have to ignore this thread now, since AMC isn't doing reruns during the week. And my fiancee decided to queue up about a dozen hour-long HD recordings saturday and sunday. I was sitting around last night and...why isn't the Jets/Pats game recording!? Luckily, it was a massacre and I didn't miss anything, but when she took off I sat down to watch Walking Dead, nice Sierra Nevada Hef in hand, salty pretzels ready....and no Walking Dead, the DVR was full.

The last time that happened, it screwed the DVR and I needed to get a new one, so I guess I got lucky? I didn't really express to her just how angry I was with that one, just throwing recordings on that we have no time to watch and screwing the things I actually do watch....anger.

Kill her.

It'll seem merciful when the zombies come.

That will show her how angry you are.  :awesome_for_real:

Sounds like you need to:
Become a cop
Get in a shoot-out with a bad guy
Get shot and put in hospital/coma
Survive a zombie infestation
Have your best friend tell your wife (who survived) that you died
(here's the hard part) wait a bit so your wife can hook up with your best friend
Finally return to your wife, thus making your relationship stronger than it ever was before
Buy another DVR

And then you can continue to shit up a thread about a show for which you've already expressed your deep disdain.

But....my fiancee IS my best friend!  :ye_gods:  :drillf:

Is this one of those threads where the spoiler tag means people who have read the books are spoilering whatever they remember or is it because I got a tad drunk watching the last few episodes that I get a bit confused reading this?
It's a fair question, I usually watch this show after I go out for drinks with the lads and quite frankly I sometimes get a bit confused watching the recap at the start of the show (mostly because I fired up the wrong episode, but still).

The spoiler tags are almost all about the previous episode that air'd recently. This is because some people in the thread are a week behind due to various factors.

Yea, it was the child stuff on the previous page that put me off.

There's also some comics stuff spoiled there.  But the more we see, the more it diverges, so don't worry about it yet.

Ok, so now it's all over, I'm impressed.  It was much better than it should have been.

However, do you know what it really needed ?

More zombies.

I would agree, but since zombie stories aren't actually about zombies and are about other humans being much more of a threat I feel okay with the zombie screen time approaching zero. In fact, it may be even more frightening and tense if zombies started turning into humans and thus increasing the overall threat level.

Well, yeah... but you can say that about practically anything.

Yay, AMC replayed the last ep and I was able to snag it for the DVR. Really liking Time Warner's new DVR web interface...they actually seem to have gotten something right after mangling the UI for the set-top box.

So, uh, is this coming back this month?

According to this picture (http://i.imgur.com/hPJ3z.jpg) that was posted in the funny pictures thread, the billboard clearly says April 2011 and I got all excited, but AMC's website is a pile of shit and I can't find anything about it coming back this month...

That poster was in the UK and it's advertising season 1.

2nd season is slated for October 2011 airing last I heard.

aww  :cry:

Wow, they put the Walking Dead poster next to a funeral home.

You're quick.

Walking Dead season 1 = 10 bucks at Best Buy right now.  Not Blueray, but still a good deal.

Season 2 trailer from ComicCon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OZ0mu8Ey6A).  Starts on October 16th.  13 episodes.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/111434/happy.gif)

Jesus christ, "hide under the cars"? really? fucking morons.

Bad news - Frank Darabont got canned.  Hope the show doesn't suffer.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/walking-dead-what-happened-fired-221449 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/walking-dead-what-happened-fired-221449)

Yeah, this news came out a few weeks ago.  From the articles I've read, I don't see any way for the quality of the show not to suffer to some extent.

Is AMC just run by clownshoes losers that couldn't make it on a real network, and are trying to prove why now that they're getting a little taste of success?  They had three successful shows, one of which was getting ridiculously good numbers in the most coveted demographic, and they are taking a shit all over them?

Walking Dead especially has huge potential if it can log enough episodes for syndication, and with AMC owning it outright you would think a competent executive would just sit back, share the wealth a little, and order his money hats.

--Dave

Where the fuck have you been the last 15 years ?  Under a rock ?

Yeah, it's just that it makes no goddamned sense at all.  Yes, you're bleeding money, but the whole point of *having* original content on AMC was to bleed money in order to build up the kind of viewer numbers that would let you get more revenue from both the cable companies and the advertisers.  And here, you've almost done it, you've got shows with lots of buzz and more than decent viewership, and the response to this success is...nickel and dime the golden geese to death.  And The Walking Dead is tailor-made as a vehicle for advertising every survival-horror video game and movie that comes out, why are you fucking with that?

Even for executives, this is an amazing degree of WTF?  Stop paying to show movies that aren't at least 30 years old and double down on these successful shows, you morons.

--Dave

No one?  The zombie herd and the "sign from god" was awesome.  The dumb people dumbing it up not so much.

"We need tension, dammit!"

"How about we have someone do something stupid?"

"How about if four people do something stupid?"

"I like the way you think."

Too much time spent looking for the girl.  I was excited that this was going to be a longer episode than usual, but after the herd I think the pace was a little slow.  I'm sure the ending is probably a good shock to people who haven't read the comic.  Daryl continues to be my favorite character.

Ya, I really want to like Rick but he thinks with his gut way too much to really survive.  Daryl is awesome.  You know he doesn't like the what the group is doing, but he plays smart and sucks it up because IT'S THE FUCKING ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE and sitting around making pouty faces at each other is going to get you killed.

It's probably way too much to hope that the character is dead (have not read the comic). Maybe at least the character will be bedridden for a couple episodes. Can't do too much stupid shit from a bed.

I liked the episode, but watching it on PVR made it pretty obvious that it was 90 minutes just so they could fit in 35 minutes of commercials.

Which is different from a show being 60 minutes so they can fit in 22 minutes of commercials how?

I guess it isn't. Just means I'll likely switch to watching it on Torrents like most other shows. HBO spoiled me.

This was the first time I have noticed the unequal spread of commercials too.  The first commercial break was a good 15 or so minutes in.  By the end of the show they were only having like 5 minutes of straight show before a commercial break.  Was kind of annoying.

Channel 4 over here used to do the most annoying thing ever, which was cut to the first batch of ads RIGHT AFTER the starting credits.

It was.....vexing.

Somewhat related. I hate how Hulu will plays commercials, and then roll credits.  :oh_i_see: It so feels like they are just slapping it in ONE LAST TIME.

It really became too much. Characters acting without a shred of common sense just to serve the plot. I don't remember any season 1 episodes being this dumb.

Apparently this was two episodes grafted together with a lot of the journey away from the CDC removed.

That's what she said.

Hiding under the cars did seem dumb, but only because they played it relatively smart/realistic in Season 1. Did they do that in the books? Also weird was the girl running from the zombies, and the zombies keeping up, even though they were shambling and tripping while the girl was bounding through the woods like freaking Tarzan. It reminded me of Jackson's LotR, where he depicted Aragorn and Legolas striding along the plains, with Gimli constantly 20-25' behind them because he's running slower but not really.

I was ok with the awkward search for the girl, because I couldn't think what I might do differently in that situation.

Loved the church scene, especially when they first opened the doors.  :grin: slow turn :grin: I don't think Baptists have giant crucifixes though, do they?

I think it's catholics. Though I still say the zombies put the crucifix up.  :grin:

No, they never hid under cars in the books.  It was an odd thing for them to do in this episode, because it's been established that the zombies detect people largely through smell, which makes it even more surprising that for the most part it worked (most of the herd passed them by).

I still need to watch the interview show thing, but apparently Kirkman is retconning the whole track by smell thing, by saying that the zombies sense of smell deteriorates like the rest of their bodies.  :oh_i_see:

It's believable to me.  I couldn't smell someone under a car.  It seems more like that someone would have made noise to attract them or one of the zombies stumbles and catches a glimpse.

I started to watch the new season then realized I had missed the last two episodes of last year.

Episode 5 was amazingly good. It might be that they had Adagio in D Minor playing, which makes anything epic.

Is this season going to be split in two halves like they plan to do with the final season of Breaking Bad?

Yes. 

I enjoyed the episode mostly.  I wish the characters would wise up a little though.  The redneck is really showing his worth.  I laughed at the blonde in the bathroom.  What a stupid bag of hammers she is!

Trouble with that line of logic, as Max Brooks covers in his novels, is that there is literally NO WAY for a zombie to sense anyone once you start analysing what is believable or not.  Eventually the senses should be utterly useless, which is believable.

Until they start bashing on your door.

Don't ever analyze zombies or zombie worlds.  The list of 'wait, what about..' questions is far too long.

Beginning with senses and decay and ending with, "where are all the carrion eaters, anyway?"

That one's been covered though :  Solamnum kills them.

  :why_so_serious:

There were only two parts about the first new episode I didn't like. The blonde turning into stupid whiny "Why didn't you let me off myself!" and... hmm, I've forgotten what the second thing was because goddamn, she became really annoying really quickly. I was surprised by the ending. Not that something happened, just what it was that did happen.

I wonder what kind of sign he expected from a God who lets the world devolve into a pile of shit.

"Here's a sign for you my child... HAHA PSYCHE!"

Sadly, I doubt its permanent. Core character in the books or not, he drags the show down.

I want everyone but the guy from Boondock Saints and the asian kid to be eaten by zombies and for the show to turn into a zombie hunting buddy comedy starring those two.

Well Zombieland is being turned into a 30 minute tv show.

Zombieland started out as a tv show but CBS dropped it just before filming started.  :awesome_for_real: The movie is a condensed version of the first season.

Yep, but instead of a sequel they are going back to TV.  I'm sure Walking Dead's popularity is what sealed that deal.

The exchange went something like this over at CBS...

Producer:  We want to do a funny/scary zombie show.
Suit:  Zombies?  On the Tiffany Network?  I say good day sir!
Producer:  We turned the concept into a movie and it made bank.
Suit:  I'm sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my three martini lunch.
Producer:  The Walking Dead on AMC is wildly popular.
Suit:  WHAR SERIES WHAR

Too bad that Fox is the one going for the show, CBS is shit outta luck.   :awesome_for_real:

That's a shame.  Odds are high of it being shitcanned halfway through the first season despite being fantastic.

I kinda figured you knew that, but whatevs. I love the movie even though it only feels twenty minutes long. If done well, I'd rather see this than The Walking Dead each week.

Well, episode two was at least paced out a lot better than the first one. And this may be the only show on tv where the redneck is the coolest character.

Saw the first of S2 last night.

It was well done and quite tense, but I still have real problems with the characters being....Bloody Stupid.

Some seriously obvious 'setup' which kinda broke the immersion for me.  Particularly the "'Now, you stay here' - BOLT" thing.  My wife was shouting at the screen.

Yeah, I thought this was a pretty good episode.  I like that they give Shane some redeeming qualities that never really came through in the comic.  Also, with what little screen time he's gotten so far, Otis is already miles better than his comic equivalent, so I'm looking forward to seeing how they get out of their current situation.  Daryl continues to be the character I'm constantly afraid will killed off for shock value and because it would probably be the biggest hit to the group.  At the same time though, I tell myself that he wouldn't get killed off before his brother shows up again.  Also still dreading the potential quality drop halfway through the season after we hit the point where Darabont left.

Well to be fair he said "stay here, but if i don't get back soon here is how you get back".  Which apparently she was actually following until for some reason she took off in a completely different direction.

'Soon' shouldn't be defined as 'The Minute The Cop is out of Eyeline.'

She totally bolted.

Also, can someone tell me what the guy in the car actually died of ?  The one with the sweet roll of melee weapons ?

He was just sitting there.  Dead.

 :uhrr:

I have a feeling that... Not. Everyone. Comes. Back...

Well, sure, but there didn't seem to be a mark on him.  He was just...dead.

I wonder if the Army did a Brooks and dropped chemical weapons on fleeing infected.

They asked about that guy to Kirkman on the Talking Dead.  He pretty much said that the guy would have died of some type of head trauma, probably from something like a car accident.

He was wearing a seatbelt in stationary traffic.

 :why_so_serious:

I Know, I Know, I'll stop.  It just bugged the fuck out of me.

I figured all the people in that highway died of starvation after getting surrounded in their cars, cept for the ones that got broken into like the one with the bloody baby seat.

 :ye_gods:

Fair enough.

I reckon with a lapful of axe, I'd chance getting out.

I hated Lori already but that "i'm mad at my husband because he's being reasonable" flashback made me want to bitch slap the shit out of her.

AMC renews 'The Walking Dead' for 3rd season (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/10/25/walking-dead-third-season/)

Why is Andrea picking Shane instead of Daryl? That makes no sense.

She's not picking him, she's tagging along because he had already decided to leave.  It was just an opportunity she took.

After reading the comics, finally, I'm kind of upset by the changes in some of the characters.  Andrea is the one that bothers me the most, cuz she went from kind of a badass in the comics to a whiny bitch.

She doesn't make sense to me.  After what she's done, why is she looking for an easy out? And yes, she is way too whiny.

She really does not want to die.  Or at least thats the impression I got.

Did anyone catch the shout out to Breaking Bad in Merl's pharmaceutical stash?  :heart:

Hah, that's awesome.  I wasn't familiar enough with meth to know it's not always blue.

Meth can never be so pure it turns blue. If it turns blue it's because there's a contaminant in there.
The blue meth in Breaking Bad was pure fiction yet since the show first aired cops have occasionally come across it. Some actual meth producers have started adding blue dye to their product...

Or he took one of his blades and slashed his femoral open.

WTF...  :ye_gods:

I feel like I'm missing some vital part of information that will let me understand what the fuck this is talking about.

Yeah I'm not sure either.

He was attempting to answer my question.  It still didn't though.

So, as of right now, my two favorite characters on this show are Shane and the redneck.

Shane for the joy of watching his descent into pure bugfuck crazy, and the redneck for watching his ascent into a good team player that understands what's on the line and is actually looking out for his fellow survivors.

The asian kid has done absolutely nothing at all this season, he was one of the best characters in the comics.

Yeah, but I still don't really get it.  There seems to be NO problem with what happened to his brother.  None.  That just seems strange to me.

He seems pretty convinced that his brother will resurface somewhere. Since he's so convinced that his brother is a badass, maybe that's why? It seems a bit thin, I know.

I don't think him and Merle were too close in the first place.  From the story he told Andrea about how he was lost in the woods for 9 days, and that no one even noticed, tells me that he pretty much fended for himself most of his life.  I think that's also why he is such a team player now and actually cares for the people he's with.

As for Shane, he's a prick and I think he's at the point where he'll sell anyone out just to survive.  He's also not a character you really have to deal with much in the comics as, if I remember right, he's already dead before they get to Hershel's farm.  

I was really pumped that Pruitt Taylor Vince was on the show too.

This was my first thought after last night, but then I realized - if it was all about his own survival he wouldn't have wasted all that time wrestling the backpacks off of Otis. I think it was more a case of him ruthlessly deciding it was the best chance to save Carl.

That's selfish also, he's doing it more for Lori than Carl I bet.  Another thing is, someone mentioned that he took the gun that Rick gave Otis, so I think that's going to be the tip off.  Although I personally don't remember him getting the gun.

The thing is Otis also risked his ass for Carl/Shane twice to get them out of the school and it looked like they had a bit of room between them and the zombies.  If Shane hadn't of been limping I don't think he'd have done that to Otis.

It's kind of up in the air about his motives, but I think either way he's gonna get what's coming to him down the line.

This isn't a morality play.  He will get exactly the same as everyone else, a heaping pile of shit.

If there's one thing I've learned from watching this show and The Shield, it's to never trust anyone named Shane.

Wow! What a bastard!

Meh, I can't truly say what I would do in the same situation to be honest. 

I feel like in the comics, for all Rick's talk about the hard decisions he's had to make for the group, and the times he's pretty much said he'd sacrifice anyone to keep his kid safe, he's never really been put in the position Shane was in.  So in that respect I continue to like what they're doing with Shane's character, putting him on this slippery slope where you could almost justify his actions in this episode, but you know it's only going to get worse.

Good episode!  Zombie action and riveting human drama.  Even Rick's wife was good.  But Shane stole the show.  That was some messed up shit but it felt authentic.  These are desperate times and folks are pushed to the edge.  Was it right or wrong?  Do morals matter in a zombie apocalypse?  Why keep struggling?  This episode really brought these questions up and there's no easy answer, at least to me. 

Best episode of the series so far. 

As someone who expected Shane to die early in the first season, I like what they are doing with him. At the same time, I sure as fuck hope that Carl ends up shooting him. Granted, that likely won't happen as they've time shifted Carl getting shot to now as opposed to later in the comics. This was probably a good idea, because Kirkman's fan mail around Issue 85 was getting pretty mean.

No.

I much prefer slow zombies to fast zombies, but i'd take either of them to this shows "fast enough to be three feet behind you no matter how fast you are going" zombies.  Shane and Otis barely outran the zombies on their way in going at full speed, then they barely outran the zombies while limping an stopping for a wrestling match on their way out.

Don't you know, the show is called the Walking Dead.

They sure run pretty fast when the situation calls for it.

Zombie speed is relative to what they need at the time.  If you want a more realistic approach the more intact/new the zombie is the faster they can move.  The older and more fucked up ones will be slower. 

Realistically zombies shouldn't have the motor skills to do much more than crawl on the ground hand over hand.

I think if another person tries to inject realism into a Zombie discussion, I'm going to visit them with an axe.

I don't think consistency is the same as realism.  The zombies that chased Shane and Otis into the school would have caught them in three seconds when they ran out.

Consistency dies due to dramatic tension shocker.

The horror genre as a whole is guilty.  Hell, most genres are guilty.

I guess if you are going to have an episode with one single zombie appearance you better make damn sure it's memorable.  The asian kid nailing Vivian Volkoff really had me wishing this was on hbo.

You have a thing for asian men?   :why_so_serious:

THAT'S where I remember her from!  Yeah, she is a hottie.  Not a great episode, but I think it was the buildup to some storylines.  The search for Sophia is wearing thin.  I understand they seem to be doing an episode per day of this merry band, but it's starting to damage the narrative flow.

Previews for next week look good though!

The Sophia thing is being dragged out, but on the plus side, it hasn't really taken up that much of the last couple episodes, and it's given Daryl something to do.  I also liked the Shane and Andrea stuff, and the subtle hints that things are going to take a similar path to what happens in the comics.

--Dave

Yes.

I didn't recognize Vivian Volkof... how did I not recognize her? It was the lack of accent, I guess.

--Dave

The show may diverge, of course, but it was a big thing in the comic.

Haven't read the books but based on everything in the show I'm really siding with Herschel. A bunch of idiots disrupting his life and doing stupid shit that endangers everyone and wastes valuable resources.

I just realized that Daryl reminds me a lot of Sam Wateverthefuck from Avatar

The guy that plays Rick and the girl that play Maggie have superthick english accents in real life, yet I'd never have suspected. I have a hard time believing that our shitty actors produce UK accents that aren't cringeworthy.

Also, I'm hoping that Andrea just fucking dies or something.

The reveal about why Herschel is the way he is was shown tonight and he's just as much an idiot as everyone else can be.

More, I think, assuming they keep it 'the same'.

Well, to Maggie's credit, she's originally from Jersey.

Second on the hope that Andrea dies.

Although I hate the current incarnation of Andrea, she's pretty awesome in the comics.  I hope they lean her more that way, and soon.

At the beginning of the first season I preferred the show's version of Andrea, but they have taken a bad turn with her lately, and I'm not a fan.

I think there was some decent foreshadowing in the last episode that indicates they're going more in line with the comics.

I was within a heartbeat of quitting the show for good when they showed


Semi-related: The actress who plays Maggie is also on a show called Vampire Diaries and this was how it was marketed:

I hope there are more flashbacks, the fall of civilization is a lot more fun to watch than the short bus survivors.  "I don't know how you guys made it this long" about sums up the show for me.

Evil Spoiler

Sonuva.  Hot damn, I need to rewatch this scene.

I'd be surprised if that were true, but it's not like they've stayed real close to the comics with some of the characters.

There's a screenshot of it from episode 7 circulating the intertubes. .

The whole thing could be a hoax I suppose.

Also, ditch the guns except for last resort and make/get some machetes. Seriously, any sort of big blade with some weight would take care of pretty much any of the groups except the giant swarms. Running away from 2 of the fucking things is shameful.

Actually, that change makes sense from the dramatic narrative PoV that they've built around the farm.

However, I think that might muck up some of the 'good' comic stuff later on.  We'll see.


I don't think I said anything there worthy of a spoiler tag.  Heh.

That's because southern accents are easy to do.  If they weren't easy, southerners wouldn't be able to do them.

California accents aren't tough either.  I have a Scot friend (who I spent the first year saying "What?" to a lot) who does a perfect California accent.  Her kids (raised here) could switch in and out at will, although I'm hearing them with an American ear, not a Scot ear, so I don't know how a Scot would consider their accents.

If you as an American can understand someone putting on a real Scottish brogue, then they are doing it wrong.

Okay, Shane is about batshit crazy, but as far as the barn and a wake up call to everyone - especially Hershel I think he was pretty much spot on. It's probably not a good sign that I agree with the not-crazy-times Shane a lot more than Rick. Also, the horrible Talking Dead talk show had some interesting pieces of info, plus a phone call from Alice Cooper. Previews indicate Hershel jups headfirst into the never ending pit of defeatism.

Shane is the weakest link. He's playing post apocalypse tough guy to cover up that his nerve broke, and now he's a tweak. He's the kind of dude who might shoot you in your sleep because you ate the last cookie.

Still it was stretched out at least an episode too long.

I really have to root for Shane since he's the only one who actually wants to survive.

Dale should have been executed.  He put everyone at serious risk.

Does anyone else cringe at the repeated waste of ammo?

I still think Rick went out of this looking better than Shane.

In all off his Bravado Shane still froze when faced with a Walker he knew in life. And would likely have done until Sophia ate somebody.

And yes, they waste ammo like they have an infinite supply. Retards.

Na, he was letting people get a good look at what morons they are.

I interpreted it the same was as Tebonas.  He froze.

Sure he was shocked, who wouldn't be? But he didn't immediately gun her down because she was no threat. (And really the writers wanted to savor the moment)

I was thinking more about how many walkers all that gunfire could likely attract.

I am hooked on the show for sure. A couple of things have been pointed out that bother me.Number one, the ammo thing for sure. Ok, we're fighting zombies and trying to survive. We also know that crossbows seem to be pretty damn handy. Can we not find a place to gather up some supplies? Obviously guns seem to have some drawbacks and should probably be the fallback weapon of last choice due to the noise issues. There is a nice bass pro shop 20 miles northeast of Atlanta i might have to stop by. Secondly, we don't have enough people. We need to have standing watches and such, having less than 20 guys is going to be a problem. Ok, so they are going to do it their way, but i think when the crap hit the fan we'd have to get the basics down. The basics now are defense, shelter, food, and ammo/weapons.

This show also brings a couple of questions up. Do we just assume there isn't going to be a cure and outlast them? I think that is what i would have to go on. So killing as many zombies as we can find seems to be a pretty good idea. Ah well, lots of questions and now enough answers in the show yet. This cannot be the only group to survive. The military cannot have all died, though so far we haven't met up with any special forces groups or the like. Maybe they've already got what they need and are hunkered down in outlast mode.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the episodes, but honestly this group of people is a bit on the lame side. Obviously not as lame as the guy running the farm, but i think we'll meet other groups that probably make these guys look like pacifists.

Bear in mind that the average lifespan of a zombie is 5 years.

You don't have to kill them all, or even any of them.  You just have to avoid them.  A lot.

Trouble with that is any place that's 'nice' enough to live, well, there was this big bunch of humans, see, who thought the same way.  So they lived there.  And turned into munchers.

I am beginning to wonder if the swarms avoid the farm because they sensed a large group there already (even though they were locked up in the barn).

Also - Shane totally froze.  For all his rhetoric about making tough decisions and whatnot he is still scared on the inside.  Only Rick stepped forward and did what needed to be done.

You guys just hate the morality Shane represents are ready to use any excuse to impune him in favor of Mr Hugs and Rainbows.

Or he's a fucking idiot putting everyone at risk.

Shane totally froze up.  He should have been the one to shoot Sophia to prove his point.

He also avoided going back to Atlanta.  "You went back to save a druggy!"

No, asstard - I went back to get my damned guns.  Justified by the walkie - but at the end of the day it netted guns.

Like Rick said, if they wouldn't have had those guns from Atlanta they probably would have all died in that zombie attack.

Hindsight.  Remember what dumbass shit Rick was doing when he lost the guns.

I agree.  I don't think he froze.

Rick had the opportunity to step up and did.

I actually liked Shane better after last episode than any of them so far.  Rick's approach with Herschel was fine until the discovery of the barn, but after? Rick looked like the nutty one; Shane was just distilled clarity.

Was agnostic about Dale until last night too.  I hate him now.  He's so confused he doesn't even know what's right and wrong.  He suffers from a profusion of irrelevant feelings with a large helping of self-righteousness.  As my daughter said, "I wish he'd just die now."

My favorite remains Glen, and Maggie's a close second.

Are we watching 2 different shows?  I am assuming Tazel is baiting me, so ignoring his comment.

Xanthippe - Not sure I agree with ya here.  I mean, yeah, Dale should die, agree with you there.  But Shane totally froze and is wrong.

Why not just cap everyone living in the house and take it as their own?  Because - even though its the end of the world its not quiet at Mad Max levels.  It is Herschels land.  And as he said - there are tons of farms, if you want to have things your way go out and get one.

Sophia as a walker bothers me- not because she's a kid, but because (as with most zombies) her existence as a non-eaten corpse doesn't make any fucking sense.  Zombies eat the people they catch, and as a kid she wasn't going to be able to get away from the zombie that chomped her shoulder.   

I'm excited they are moving away from the comic books.  I hope Shane lives forever and Dale (and Carl and Sophia's mother, and also Dale) die in a zombie fire. 

Meh it's not like it's impossible for there to be a scenario where she gets bit and is able to run away. 

Anyway, she's pretty much a useless character even in the comics.

You are all nuts, of course Shane froze.  "They are just walkers until its one of yours" was the whole fucking point.

Shane froze. I actually thought the direction of the shot was a little over the top in hammering that home. I'm surprised there's any question.

I disagree with almost everything. Dale is great. He's obviously irrational, but he's clinging to humanity. The entire zombie genre (actually the entire post-holocaust genre) is about whether we can remain human in a world of complete despair or just devolve and become no more human than the zombies.

Suprised just how much Dale hate there is. He does and says some stupid things, but it seems obvious to me that its because he feels so frustrated. He can see people losing grip on first their hope and then even their values and its frustrating him, but he's not good enough at relating to people to express himself.

I thought Glen finally redeemed his character in this episode with the realization that he had been treating the zombies like a game (volunteering to go down that well - what the hell?  :ye_gods: )

Knew what was coming at the very end, and I secretly hoped she would sprint out of the barn and chomp down on Carl. Dale needs to stick around to be a sort of impotent moral compass (Rick shows morality, but he's kind of placed himself above everyone else). Carl though, just annoys the living fuck out of me.

I like Carl.  That's your idealist, right there.  He's honest.  He's trying to be heroic.  He's brave.  He's an 8 year old kid who has been through horrific things.

Dale thinks he's a humanitarian but he really wants to get into Andrea's pants and she knows it.  Dale's a disgusting hypocrite, clinging to his shallow morality in a world where it makes no sense.  His self-righteousness is nauseating, and his stupidity makes him worse than worthless, it makes him dangerous.

Now, I'm not saying Shane is a guy I look up to - he's disgusting in his own way, of being too ruthless.  I don't like him, but I've gone from absolutely hating him to seeing his side of things more - I'd still argue with him over killing Otis.

I still don't think Shane froze - the guy who coldheartedly shot Otis is going to freeze at shooting Sofia, a girl he's been ready to give up on for some time?  From a character viewpoint, it makes sense that he was waiting to see what would happen.  I don't think he would have hesitated if she charged, or if he was alone or the only armed person.  But the device was employed so the scene could linger long enough for every character's reaction to register.

Inside The Walking Dead: Making of the Barn Scene on Youtube, in spoiler link below.

He said he was sorry. What do you people want!?!  :why_so_serious:

Oh, I agree. But they had to stretch it to make the mid-season finale!  :awesome_for_real:

For all those knocking Dale, I find it much more 'realistic' when there are people doing dumb shit in these types of stories. I know if the zombpocalpse hit, I wouldn't be the hardass or the tactical genius, I'd be the guy in the back bitching about no internet and having to shit in the woods.  :grin:

I believe this was the case. Fact is shane was originally the xander of the "pre zombie world", he isnt a hard ass, cold ruthless son of a bitch, by nature. That's something he embraced, slowly, and now sees no other way to be.

That last episode was MESSED UP!  Loved it, put the show back on track and gave it a much needed dose of urgency again.  Even Lori was good.  I like how I hop between Rick and Shane's viewpoints.  Rick is a long term thinker; Shane is ruthlessly pragmatic. I think I have to stick with Rick though.  There has to be a long term plan.

Shane most definitely froze up. It was the shock he needed to see the consequences of his paradigm. At some point had he continued following this track, it would have been a "we need to take Herschel out and steal his farm" kind of vibe. Dale getting rid of the guns was really stupid but I sort of see his point. Shane is going to (and did) take them to a very bad place with the guns. I think Dale is just reaching a point of frustration at the lack of control he now has over anything, so he panicked and took the only option he could think of to protect the group. The lack of leadership is showing, and the people who aren't leaders like Rick or Shane are flailing about trying to figure out which direction to go. Do they go to Rick's side, Shane's or somewhere in between?

But the ending was fucked up and the fact I have to wait until FEBRUARY is even more fucked up.

Fuck both of them, Daryl should be in charge.

If they kill Daryl, I'm done with the show.

I didn't know how the show would end and hadn't actually known it was the half-season finale, so the big dramatic ending really did the trick for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing Shane's further descent into madness. The woman he is in love with is going to have his baby, and he's supposed to pretend it's not happening and say congratulations to some other guy instead? But although I feel sorry for him, I do see him as a villain. I guess that depends on whether you believe he really had to sacrifice Otis.

I'm going to use the break in the show to catch up on the comics, which I have been neglecting.

Definitely a villain. Don't forget Otis came back to save him even if he could have gotten away without a problem. Most people aren't able to shoot a person that does that a few minutes later to save their own hide.

There is a new TPB out if you are having trouble finding back issues. The only thing that I hate about the TPBs is that some of the fan mail is fun to read, in particular when Kirkman does shit to well-loved characters.

I like dale, Clearly, its not that he wants to get in her pants, its that she and her sister were like daughters to him. If I'm not mistaken, they spent much time together before they even joined the group. I have not read the comics.

It Shows.

I didn't know it was a prerequisite to comment on the TV show. A TV show that has apparently already diverged in a number of places from the comics. When I watch the show all I see is dale concerned for her safety.

I see a lonely guy desperate for muff.

Yes, after losing his wife, I'm sure that's the first thing he is looking for after meeting them shortly after.

Are you calling Dale's wife a whore?  :why_so_serious:

Heh, fixed.

You're right, there's no record of someone losing a partner and fucking someone straight after in the show.

Unless you mean Shane and Lori.

Grief is a great place for a fuck.

I'm not really disputing that. I'm just describing what I see when I watch the show. I see dale as more concerned for his "daughter". YMMV. It's great you guys have read the comics, but the show does not give me this impression.

In fairness, your perception might be colored by what you know from the comic.

The whole thing with Dale and Andrea seems more to be Father/Daughter on the TV show then how it was in the comics.  In the comics Andrea and her sister were both shacking up with Dale so that he wouldn't throw them out.

I see Dale as being romantically interested in Andrea, but in a more sincere and less sexualized way than has been suggested here. But if he was acting to me like he is to her, no, father would not be the vibe.

I think the TV Dale/Andrea relationship is a lot closer to Father/Daughter than anything else. I agree that he occasionaly acts in ways that give off a wierd, non-paternal vibe, but I think that's more TV Dales wierd, innappropriate boundary/interference/involvement issues he seems to have with everyone in general.

We could find a compromise and say he gives off that creepy father figure that wants to diddle his daughter vibe.

What ?

No they weren't.

Jesus fucking Christ :

The Woman who got beaten every day of her life is chasing Daryl.

Dale is chasing Andrea.

Shane is chasing everything.

Rick is chasing sanity.

Asian is chasing hotness.

Are you people even watching the same fucking show I am ?  This is how humans act near death.  It's built into our fucking genes.  I'm not sure why I'm arguing, since some here missed the point of the final episode anyway, (Hint, Shane totally froze because he confronted what Hershel had been talking about for 4 episodes, in that it ain't easy when it's someone you know, and Rick, despite all the doubts everyone's been sowing, was the only one who could actually step up because he's The Leader and that's what it's all about), but humans fuck near death.  They make new attachments when the old ones are gone.

For reference, though, it was Andrea who was interested in Dale in the comics and she made the first move.  The comics Dale was UTTERLY SHOCKED.  There's not really that much crossover for me to be blinded by my perceptions here.  In the show, Dale is being waaaaay overprotective of Andrea in particular because he's interested.  He doesn't want to be and he doesn't think much of himself because of it, but he IS.  For everyone else it's, 'well it's none of my business'.  Except when it's her and he almost gets himself killed TWICE telling Shane he's a cunt because he's jealous.


I'm gonna go back to watching my version.  It seems to be more interesting.

 :why_so_serious:

I think the scene at the end of the finale was meant to show that Rick is the guy that is going to take all the hard shit upon himself.  I don't really buy the stuff about it showing Shane freezing up though.  We've seen him kill a living, non-zombie, human being, and he's never shown as being particularly close to Sophia.  In fact he's pretty much the first one to write her off, and suggest they move on.  It doesn't really fit with what they've done with the character to have that being something that would cause him to freeze up.  That scene was entirely about Rick in my opinion.

It's not that he couldn't shoot a walker, it's that he couldn't shoot ZombieSophia in front of her mother.

Dale thinks he's the Gandalf of this Fellowship and he keeps getting shocked when Andrea, Shane and others buck him and his decisions.

Hmm now that I think about it...

Rick=Aragorn
Shane=Boromir
Daryl=Legolas
Dale=Gandalf
Glen=Frodo
T-Dog=Gimli
Carl=The Ring
Lori, Andrea, Sophia's Mom=Merry, Pip, Sam

Why not?  Everything they've shown us about Shane this season has indicated that this sort of thing would not be a problem for him.  He's willing to sacrifice a living person, and he doesn't have any emotional connection to Sophia or Carol.  It would be very odd for a situation like this to cause Shane to freeze up.  If it was a zombie Lori, Carl, or even Andrea maybe I could see it, but for the writers to drawn a line and say that this is the situation that Shane can't handle and Rick can wouldn't really make sense.

Because it was all talk.  He still wants the respect of the group.  Any person who believed any of the shit that Shane's come out with would have lit out ages ago.

He's a nutjob, but not a strong one.  He's a very weak man who thinks Hard choices are easy.  There's only one bloke who not only understands, but can act on it.

I have the exact same take on the character.

I haven't read the comics, but I've met a lot of Dales.

Ditto. Shane has fallen into the survivalist bullshit ethos that Daryl's brother was selling, only without the overt racism. Daryl, meanwhile, is finding some humanity he was never exposed to before. Rick is having to find the strength to make horrible moral decisions in the face of a world where morals are all too easily forgotten (see Shane). They are all seeking connections - Shane is seeking to be the hero while Rick is trying to maintain what family connections he can.

In the comics Andrea mentions to Rick that Amy and Andrea "charmed" Dale so that they would be able to stay with them in the RV.  It isn't til after Amy dies that her feelings turn into love for Dale.

Not to be Mr. Negative here, but bullshit survivalist ethos is a bad way of describing what version of tactics you would be using at this point in the show. Maybe it is just me, but i think the people that couldn't change the oil in their car or had never touched a weapon might be behind the curve compared to rednecks and survivalists here. I'm not condoning the way Shane acts, in fact i think he's a poser, but i also think this is about the saddest group of survivors i have ever seen in a movie/show. If there are worse they aren't coming to mind. I'm not saying i would be bad ass zombie killer numero uno, but i would be hoping to meet up with some more capable people if that was possible.

If i was a white collar worker or a housewife i wouldn't be thinking: Hey, shit is going down and it's getting bad, i better find a couple of deputies. Daryl is about the only one with "survival skills". I guess it could be worse, they could meet up with Todd and his dad just back from gold mining in Alaska.

It's like we are not even the same species.  Dale is a male, Andrea is a hot young piece of ass.  If his dick works the "Father figure" idea never even crossed his mind.

Again, we've seen him essentially murder someone to save himself and/or Carl.  That's not really talk.  There is zero reason to believe that he could do that and yet would hesitate to shoot zombie Sophia.  Hell, Andrea shot her own sister who had turned.  I don't really see any reason why she couldn't have done it either.  If the point of the scene was that all these characters froze when it came down to shooting someone they know, I think that's poorly written and actually ignores what they've established about some of these characters in order to make Rick look more important.  Like I said though, I don't think it was about them, I think it was about Rick choosing to take it upon himself so the others don't have to.

Exactly. What do you do when you're saddled with "normal" people in your zombie survival group? The survivors are going to be messed up in the fucking head, and that's what they're trying to show in the series. I pity the Shane character. He got stuffed into the role of "The other guy" when Rick came back, and that seems to have started him on his path to being a royal douchebag.

The bullshit drama is what's going to get people killed now, and no one's immune to it.

See the whole theme of the zombie apocalypse genre going back to the original Johnny's got the keys is once you give into that survivalist mentality, you're just a zombie with a heart that thumps.

I wish it was more like the comics when it comes to the amount of people that get killed off.

He fucked over someone to save his own skin when no-one else was around.  This isn't hard.  Andrea shot her own sister.  It was her right and she's strong.  Could she have taken over and shot Sophia ?  Yes, probably.  But it wasn't her place.  I think you're utterly correct in your last line - which agrees with my point.  That's what leaders do.  That's how group dynamics work. 

Rick did it because her mother never could.

Which is a seperate argument from what's going on with Shane.  Ultimately, he's not a strong enough person to take Rick's role.  And he keeps trying.

Think MacBeth.

Andrea also took several hours to shoot her sister and still did it at the last second before she got chomped.

Shane is W. He talks a swell game, but ultimately everyone else pays the price for his horseshit.

I wouldn't say different species, but different age ranges. I'm 44 in classes and clinicals all day with physically ideal 20-24 year old females. While being nice to look at and way less annoying than 20-24 year old males to deal with, I'd really much rather have a really nice lunch and take a nap than fuck any of them. They spend all day talking about such trivial, easily solvable crap and making bad life decisions that I have to concentrate on keeping my mouth shut so I don't tell them what will no doubt be the results. Yes, your boyfriend going to school three hours away that you see twice a month is cheating. No, it's not a good idea to put the lease and all the utilities for the house you're sharing with 3 other people in just your name. Yes, oral gonorrhea is a real thing, oral sex is still actual sex, and in fact anytime a part of your body has a penis inside it, it's actual sex. No, freinds with benefits usually doesn't end well and it's not suprising that one of you is creeping on the other.

I'm pretty much Dale already, I just have the willpower and common sense to keep my mouth shut and smile while I hear this idiotic shit. Desire to solve all their stupid non-problems in less than 30 seconds? Check. Desire to bang them bang them? Eh, not really. Desire to have a relationship with one? Ugh, fuck no.

Well, sure, but if they're still talking that shit during a zombie outbreak, just feed them to the nearest pack.

Do them first?

We have two 18-22 year old apprentices in the office.

I know exactly what Bob means.

It's not worth it.

Yes, but you're not a Dale, and neither is Bob.

Are you sure ?

Yes.  Most men aren't Dales, but Dales are easy to recognize.

Meta.

This is coming back tomorrow.

2.5 hours- woop woop!

Nice ending, though they wasted a really great opportunity for a crossover. That would have been so much more awesome if it had been Mac and Dennis or Charlie and Frank.

I hope the wife is dead.

Stupidity continues unabated. The unnatural shooting skills was cool, but completely out of place.

I can kinda get the shooting part.  What annoys me is home girl being cool with him heading to the "city of the dead" without issue (first season) then chasing him later on because he went out to save the good doctor.

I get she is pregnant, but I dunno.  It's not like she ever stopped him from searching for Sophia.

It seems to me as though none of the writers have ever been pregnant, because if they had, Lori would have been all in favor of Rick going to find Herschel.

Lori is one of my least favorite characters, although Dale is right up there as well. Glenn and Carl are my favorites.

Boring episode until the bar scene. :)  Intense!  I like Glen and Dale, Dale because he's a civilized man in an uncivilized world and hasn't yet grasped that.  Or maybe Shane is cluing him in.   :ye_gods:

The blonde cracked me up, that actress is starting to really click with me just how she was sitting in the back of the truck.
Expected her to spit tobacco and adjust her crotch.

Oh and Get.  Off.  Herschel's.  Farm.

The bar scene reminds me of similar stuff from the comics, although Rick didn't get there until maybe 15 issues ago.

I was kind of hoping that we'd see the Philly group link up with Rick and Co., but I guess his "whatever it takes to protect my peeps" attitude is now going to go full post-prison.

Loved the episode, but two things bothered me:

1) THEY KILLED BRITT!!!!!! (Guy from the criminally underappreciated show Terriers)
2) Lori is getting really fuckstupid. Hopefully terminally so. What the fuck are you driving to town for? Did you not think Rick could find his way back on his own? WHY ARE YOU DOING IT ALONE?

Stupidity that palpable needs to result in zombies eating her face off.

1) THEY KILLED RENE!
2) Only characters I really care about in the show are Glen, Maggie, and Daryl. I don't mind Dale and Token, and Rick is pretty much required, but I doubt I would notice if any of the rest got chowed on.

Token, lol. Well played.

Also feel the same about the characters as you Bunk, although I'm interested to see what happens with Carol.

Cheryl.

Carol (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0234504/).

 :grin:

"I'm covered in ants, bitch!"

Johnny Cee got it.  :awesome_for_real:

I don't get it.  :sad:

I waffled...  almost went with "Cristal".

Even better.

For Apoxcrifta... Cheryl, Carol, Cristal... (http://archer.wikia.com/wiki/Cheryl_Tunt)

Haha OK, thanks  :awesome_for_real:

Man, Herschel goes from 0 to 60 awefully fast. Also, glenn needs to learn to keep his fucking mouth shut.

Ah, good episode. 

I think its funny how people keep commenting that just dropping him off in the middle of nowhere with a pack of supplies is tantamount to just feeding him to the walkers, so why not kill him?

Well, were I the guy, and I was given the choice of being dropped off in the middle of nowhere vs a bullet to the head, I'd take option one.

The whole point of that scene was to juxtapose the two different groups, imo.  At the first sign of trouble they dipped out- whereas Rick would risk saving the person.

I don't mind people doing stupid shit that much, it's just that when people do stupid shit and it goes completely unpunished over and over it drives me nuts.  Sure, have the stupid bitch run off on her own, but that situation has to end with the stupid bitch being eaten.  Keeping zombies in the barn? fuck, at least three or four people should get eaten for that.  Going to a zombie infested town for a drink? congrats you just turned into a buffet.  I would LOVE a show with a rotating cast of stupid fucks who do stupid shit and get the fuck eaten out of them.  Like Cops, but with zombies instead of cops.

To be fair, its tough to do a show that is primarily intended to be a character study if you kill off all the characters every few episodes.

But the study is about human dealing with a inhuman world, I don't this particular set of humans is required for that study.

The persistent feeling that the characters are surviving on the good graces of the writers tempers my enjoyment.  Basically right now I only watch for "that's fucked up!" moments.  The drama and survival are nonsensical.

I think the barn is why the farm had little issue with walkers.  As the roamers migrated around they sensed there was already a group of zombies on sight so moved on.

Shame they killed off the barn.

I thought it was mainly because of that swamp that the zombies would get stuck in.

Beginning to hate Andrea. Oddly this was the first episode I even mildly like Lori.

I wish they wouldn't fuck with Andrea so much.  She's such a badass in the comics.

I can't talk for comic Andrea, but this episode TV Andrea surpassed even Lori in Needs-to-dieness. And that is quite the feat.

Still hate Lori the most by a far margin.  Extremely shallow character that a misogynist stereotype of women. Andrea is a bitch. That's not a bad thing especially in a world gone to shit.  If Lori needs help with laundry Glenn and Dale should be helping out.

But it is a bad thing. From a pure rational viewpoint the most scarce resource are living humans. Letting them kill themself in a fit of depression is not the way to a brighter future.

Lori still is a useless person, but at least this episode she didn't threaten the continued survival of the group. For a change.

People who aren't interested in survival are a burden to the group.

Post-revelation Herschel should be leading the group. Rick is way too forgiving. Shane is confirmed as an unsalvageable shitpile. For all of his "You can't keep the group safe" pussyrubbing, they've lost one person in the form of a developementally challenged girl and picked up an awesome piece of property and increased the group by two breeding couples and a medical person who is going to turn out to be an ex-SEAL or some other sort of ultimate badass. Point: Rick.

I think you are forgetting Jim, and Amy, and Jacqui, and Merle. Oh and probably Morales's entire family.

That being said, I still agree with you. Other than the whole "These guys must have been infected by scratches. I know, I'll cut my hand open and then smear it on zombie heads repeatedly!"

My wife and I were debating this last night, which prompted a few Google searches.

Apparently the "zombie virus" is not what kills you:  it's what reanimates your corpse.  Smearing their blood all over your open wounds doesn't kill you, it just guarantees that your corpse will reanimate.  Apparently the bite itself is much like the bite of a komodo dragon where the fever and infection are caused by something other than the zombie virus.  I don't want to start a neckbeard fight here, but it does explain that if that's the canon the writers are going by, why they can have zombie corpses draped all over themselves while they have their own open wounds. 

This is pretty much how I had it figured as well, which is why the whole "it must be from scratches!" scene made no sense to me.

I excluded them on purpose. Jim and Amy were infected before Rick became "leader" (at least in my opinion) in that zombie rush at night, Jacqui commited suicide with Jenner, The Morales family left on their own to go in a different direction. Merle is a fair point though, I should count him.

My take on the dead cops.

Really quite liked this ep - the shot of the walker in the field that Shane kept staring at was particularly moving for me.

Also, the song that they closed out with (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-DqwJ6o9Tk) was fucking awesome.

I need to rewatch the episode- this was a pretty good observation.  Minus the lack of gunshot wounds or whatever.

It is obvious the bus was occupied by families.  All in all I was totally absorbed in the "oh shit tons of fast zombies all of a sudden!"

Now my mind wonders if they were more recent then previously dealt with zombies?  They seemed much more agile and faster then others we have seen.

Did you notice that he was on Shane's side of the car, walking the same direction the car was travelling - both coming and going.  :awesome_for_real:

For once The Talking Dead afterwards wasn't a complete waste of time. Scott Wilson had a lot of pretty interesting things to say, I wish they would have ditched Kevin Smith and the guy who plays trunk boy and just talked to Scott. Apparently Scott's mother told him to take the part after they had watched the show together and she had read the scripts. They also have a big picture of her as a young woman in Herschel's house.

I found myself sympathizing with Andrea rather than Lori over the idea of suicide. Andrea's correct in that people who want to kill themselves need to have a reason not to. Otherwise it sucks group resources in trying to prevent their suicide.

With regard to the division of labor - why can't Dale do laundry? What the hell else does he do besides be on watch? At least Glenn is a good scavenger.

I don't like Andrea all that much (particularly not after her shooting Daryl - what a boneheaded move that was) but I still cannot stand Lori. She's setting up Rick to kill Shane now as though that is the only solution to the Shane problem. Why not try to convince him to leave instead? Because Lori's a worthless bitch who loves manipulating these two guys while she secretly hates men (what else explains her dismay over watching her own kid man up like he has?).

I do like Carol. Maggie so far too.

I see Shane as setting up Rick to kill Shane now as only solution to the Shane problem. Shane is bugfuck crazy and isn't trying very hard to hide it, plus that fight didn't help very much.

Lori being sad at watching her kid man up can be attributed to being sad that he has to man up. Childhood is over at what, 11 for TV Carl? That would upset and depress any parent. My kid starts kindergarten next fall and I'm sad about that. There's not even zombies involved, just expensive nuns and the fact that our house is districted for a really bad school.

I finally really liked Rick.  He put Shane in his place and is thinking long term for the good of the group.  Shane belongs in the evil human camp, he can watch as women get raped and any injured get capped.  Rick is right, Shane needs to come back from the abyss and rejoin 'society'.  Shane will comply for now, he doesn't want to end up like the solitary zombie. 

He just needs to change his perspective, forget Lori and go bang Andrea who's practically his groupie.  But what fun would regaining his sanity be on a TV show? :)

I, too, sided with Andrea.  You can't expend resources doing a suicide watch indefinitely.  It was a crude plan but worked well.

Meta:  Jon Bernthal (Shane) is going to be on Frank Darabont's new TNT series, so I'd say he's walker-chow.  He's a damn good actor too.

Yeah, that was some good stuff.  Minus trunk boy.  God he sucked- actually made me cringe from his ackwardness.

That's odd.  I think Randall(?) aka trunk boy was a regular on Rescue Me as Dennis Leary's son and he was solid.

The cops had no marks at all, i assumed given the topic of the episode that it was suicide.  Same as the people inside.  It was kind of odd that they were all packed in a closed building and the two guards were outside alone.

The guys can do laundry and she can STFU about making excuses about why they can't.


That's been my thought. Maybe it's our common infection with The Gay, but I keep hearing Neil Patrick Harris "we're in it for the species, boys and girls". You don't just get to off yourselves when you're genes are a valuable commodity.

Overall, I will watch anything with reanimated corpses, but these people have had long enough to get their priorities straight and I'm losing patience for the series.

I have a real problem with Shane cutting his palm with the same knife he sunk into a walkers head two seconds before.

He'll be fine, he's got Chuck Norris blood.

Specially after the talk about how the guards turned from mere scratches literally five minutes before.

Yes.  Exactly.

It's either fucking stupid or something's going on.

re the latest episode - fuck me this did not go where I was expecting it to. Do not read the spoiler before watching.

That was a really good episode.

Wowzers. Though I'm still left wondering if the cow is a zombie cow? Guts on the ground and mooing doesn't exactly sound great. Cue ground beef joke. Fear the zombie bears.

I got distracted during the big debate scene towards the end... because I realized I had completely forgotten about T-Dog (me and the writers both).  After I saw him there with the rest of the group I was trying to think if he had a single line of dialog in the last 2 or 3 episodes.  Hell, even Patricia got at least one line this episode.  Guess Dale didn't give a shit about convincing T-Dog to speak out at the meeting.

Man, crazy episode.   :ye_gods:

Things just got real.

I think it was eviscerated and just taking a long time to die.  A bit of 1 minute foreshadowing. 

You know, it's pretty amazing how sneaky those zombies can be when they want to be.  Also, Carl seems to take after his mother when it comes to making brilliant decisions.

Rick's looks and Lori's braaaaaainsssss does not a good combo make.

What's wrong with Rick's looks ?

English healthcare teeth :oh_i_see:
I think he looks fine, I think I'd bang him if I were gay or a woman.

As far as Carl, the rock throwing and whatnot is what about every single boy his age would do if they discovered the same thing. Where he fucked up was crossing the river and getting within arms reach instead of just shooting or going to get an adult after dicking around. I guarantee it's not a mistake he's going to make twice now. I don't think an episode has gone by where someone hasn't said "Where's Carl at?" and no one seems to know. This episode kind of answers the sort of stuff carl is off doing.  

 :ye_gods:

We're a week behind over here and now I'm all tantalised.

Stop. Reading. This. Thread.

This episode was probably one of the best ones since Season 1.  Do not spoil your experience!

Yeah, sorry... I didn't realize that you guys were behind. I don't think I wrote anything too spoilery but don't take chance. And it really is that good an episode.

Okay Doke.  Back laters.

I didn't think the episode was very good at all, merely shocking.

After all the touchy-feelie interpersonal drama, the writers are reminding us that this is still the zombie apocalypse, and you only have to forget that for a second to wind up Zombie Chow.

--Dave

Anything can kill their group. A hard winter where everyone gets pneumonia and they're all dead. There's strength in numbers, and they're going to have to take some chances on trust and get some new blood or their group will dwindle and weaken. Some semblance of civilization means they can earn trust and be trusted in return. The alternative is to go all Shane, kill every male they meet, and take their women for breeding stock. And then the show gets really depressing as we watch a pack of survivors turn into a gang of marauding rapists.

*Ed to fix spoiler tag

Last couple of episodes have been very good, I thought this was going downhill rather fast so I'm glad I gave it another chance.

Shane's not THAT bad. Seriously, you think he went total caveman? Nah. He still has some humanity, I think.

I'd take crazy Shane over either Dale or Lori any day.

Let's not forget than Randal's buds went for their guns first in that little shoot out. Rick blew it by not mercy killing the guy when he was stuck on the fence. Herschel was right, Rick should have listened to him.

Herschel post-enlightenment seems to be all right.

Until it's you he shoots and leaves behind as zombie chow to save his own skin.

Which group member do you think would sacrifice her/himself in order to save another, except those tied by blood?

I don't think that anybody would, except maybe Glenn to save Maggie.

Shane killed Otis because he saw Otis as not a member of his group, and killed him in order to save a member of his group (Carl), not just because he wanted to save himself - at least that's how I see Shane. He's a creep, but not any more than Dale was a creep.

Shane has done a great deal for members of his group - more than Dale did.

Exactly.  Lori and Rick would both have killed Otis to save Carl.  Like Daryl said, it wasn't hard to figure out, Rick just didn't want to think about it because it meant Carls life.

Lori wouldn't have because I don't think Lori is capable of killing anything.  Lori is the worst kind of useless because she's unwilling to learn how to defend herself.  She only escaped alive from that car wreck through sheer luck, not out of any kind of competence.  Rick wouldn't have killed Otis the way Shane did.  Oh, he'd have killed him if Otis directly threatened Carl, but Otis was actively trying to help.  He wasn't the enemy.  That's the big difference between what Shane did and what most of the others would do.

I'd take Dale over Shane any day.  Dale might be pompous, sanctimonious and insufferable but at least he has a moral compass.  Shane is a borderline sociopath who will rationalize anything to get what he wants.  Last time I checked, Dale isn't the one who tried to force himself on the woman he thinks is 'his'.  While I think Shane and Lori deserve each other, I don't see how a zombie apocalypse justifies attempted rape.

I also think you underestimate Dale's contribution to the group.  While he certainly isn't the fighter that Shane is, Dale was the best (only?) mechanic of the group which was pretty important when they were on the move.

The writers have nearly written Helter Skelter on his forehead for us. His constant fidgeting, and scheming. This is exactly the type of character who will throw anyone under the bus at any time if he thinks he's going to get his way for it, or is provoked. Hell, I thought he was going to try to kill Lori when she gave him the "Leave me the fuck alone" speech. And you can tell he's just itching for Rick's blood.
Not to mention he was all for taking over the farm from the beginning. How do you think he was going to accomplish that? By politely asking Herschel to give them the farm?

I'd take a zombie over Shane. At least you know where you stand with the Zombie.

Shane IS that bad.

Just because it was a few episodes ago we shouldn't forget that he almost shot Rick in the back unprovoked and all but admitted that to Dale while threatening to kill him as well.

(http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-tQbhFXr/0/L/i-tQbhFXr-X2.jpg) (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/03/02)

IMO this show has, from the start, been deliberately written to polarise people and cause arguments. It's a non-reality version of reality TV. It's aimed particularly at American political sensibilities and doesn't really translate well for instance to my views. I think they're all acting like fucking retards and are the living (hah) embodiment of what Marx called the "muck of ages". Their ways of thinking are rooted in the world that existed before the collapse and simply don't apply any more. They are surviving despite their methods, not because of them.

I think it was particularly telling that the one time (that I can remember) that they took a collective, group decision, their self-appointed leader refused to implement it.

So looking at Dale's decisions, Andrea would not have access to firearms at all - but she's become pretty good at shooting zombies, so where would that have left the group? And there would still be zombies in the barn, if it was up to Dale. It remains to be seen how the Randal thing plays out and whether Dale would have been right about not killing Randal or not.

That is a good point about Dale being the mechanic.

When she's not mistaking people in the group for zombies, sure.  :awesome_for_real:  An Andrea without access to firearms might have left the group with a slightly less emo Daryl.

But honestly, just because I'd rather have Dale in a group over Shane doesn't mean I think Dale should be in charge of the group or that I think every decision he's made has been the right one.  Dale certainly wasn't the only one who thought the barn should be left alone.  I don't remember offhand now, but I'm pretty sure it was Rick who was the most vehement at leaving the barn alone so as not to offend Herschel.

True. Rick has made a lot of errors, though, and he's not a great leader. I'm not sure who would be a better one though. Maybe Herschel (now). Certainly not Shane nor Andrea.

DARYL

Glen.  He's brave, smart and good hearted.

While I like both of those guys better than I like Rick, neither want to step up and lead, and both look toward Rick to do it.

So there are Walking Dead action figures based on the comic (I need to nab a Michonne for my desk), and Walking Dead action figures based on the TV show. Based on the limited number that they currently make, I can safely predict that the following two characters will not die any time soon:

Indeed. I have a feeling Daryl and his brother were living this lifestyle for a while before any zombie apocalypse. Before he decided the group was broken he was sociable, concerned for the group, and willing to take unpleasant action without being eager for it. Not sure if he'd be any good now though.

Sofia kind of broke him. He'll come back.

Daryl's not bad, racism aside for a moment, but he strikes me as more of a doer than a planner and especially not a co-ordinator. Maybe he'll pick up those kinds of skills as the show goes on, maybe not.

This episode plodded along with a bit too much of the "let's discuss the moral dilemma" and not enough movement. They've spent too much time on the farm, IMO. I think the big ending was telegraphed... it was just a matter of who got eaten, not if. Though I must say I was surprised by the who.

Herschel is a broken man and unable to lead. Daryl isn't a leader, he's the vanguard. Glenn's the scout. Shane's the goddamn headcase - you can tell he's trying to believe his survival of the fittest bullshit, but even he doesn't believe it. If he did, he'd have shot Rick a long time ago. He's trying very hard to do what he thinks needs to be done but he isn't willing to go all the way and kill his friend to accomplish that, proving he lacks the strength of his convictions.

I can forgive Carl being a dumbass because he's a kid. The rest of the group? Not so much. They all know killing Randall is wrong, but they are acting out of fear. T-Dog really has been ill-used this season. As the only black character, I'm surprised he's lasted this long.

I'm really hoping they get the fuck off the farm soon.

My main issue is that, at the end of season 1, Fort Benning was the goal. It wasn't until 2 or 3 episodes ago that they learned Ft. Benning wasn't an option. I just hope that we see some version of the various refuge spots that the comic developed. I'd be pretty pissed if the show suddenly jumped from "desolation in zombie land" to being caught up in the current comic plot.

Well, they already cast a certain big villain from the comic for season 3, so I don't think they're going to be jumping all the way to whatever is happening in the current comic yet.

Well, I've watched it now and it was utter bullshit.

I'm kinda getting done on this show.  As someone else said, it's like a soap opera or reality TV at this stage and it's not that interesting.  Apart from the end, fuck all happened that was worth a damn.  And even that was done with so much 'this actor has better things to do, so we wrote him out.'

Little thing that bugs me; Daryl has his tent way off alone.  If he's not scared of walkers why should I be? My point is that the farm has become too safe, even with the events of last week.  They're just camping out on Herschel's Farm.  When they were on the highway, scrounging for gas, fixing the cars, that was tense.  When Rick and Shane went off for their 18 mile trip, the show improved. 

I'm not bailing on it yet, will watch the rest of the season, but for sweet zombie Jesus, get off the farm.

Yeah, the farm thing has gone on WAY too fucking long. It was time to leave like 3 shows ago.

I'm pretty sure that's a consequence of the budget caps they inflicted on it (twice the episodes for half the money as the first season).  Traveling or urban scenes, or any scene with a lot of zombie screen time, costs a lot more than putzing around the farm having drama and seeing a zombie or two.  So most episodes that's what we've gotten.

--Dave

Yup, this season really feels like it's done on the cheap. It's become really mediocre, really quickly, which is a crying shame because it started off so well.

It feels that way because it was, that was why Darabont left.

Shit just got real  :drill:

Well, each to his own I guess, I'm enjoying the hell out of it. Everyone seems to want MOAR ZOMBIES! which I get, but at the same time, if you overdo that, you end up with this season of Spartacus - which is entirely MOAR MUTILATION! and seems to have lost some of the drama and intrigue of previous seasons.

Really, since the mid season break, Dale's episode and Sophia's funeral have really been the only ones without any major action sequences. You guys are probably going to hate tonight's as well, but from the looks of the trailers for next weeks, they saved all the zombie budget for the (somewhat predictable) season finale (next week).

Honestly, I look forward to this show more than I do Spartacus.

They're probaby going to be leaving the farm soon.

HEAD SHOT!

Almost a great episode.  The only thing that annoyed me was the awkward scene- cannot believe they left it in there.   :uhrr:

Guess we know who the new mechanic is now.

We should have a death pool for next episode.

If there was any justice they'd all die.

In my mind there is a much better version of this show in which T-dog and Jimmy have constant awesome zombie adventures mostly based around luring Carl out of the fucking house and into the woods again.

Wow, Lori really wanted Shane dead it seems. How she went and rekindled his hatred after she realized he could maybe reintegrate into the group was a shitty thing to to, put perfectly orchestrated. At least if she didn't care which of her men survived this.

Please show, you are on a roll. Kill her next.

That would be a great way to end the show eventually, instead of some sappy thing where they find a secluded island or something.  Everyone dies, and not in some self-sacraficing heroic way or something, they are just over run and killed.

I thought she did that because she was too stupid not to say something that would set him off. You think she planned that? If so, FUCKED UP. I'm really starting to hate that character for either being too stupid or too cunning.

 

It can well be I gave her too much credit. She is a really stupid person otherwise, so that could easily just be the cherry on top of her stupidness pie instead of Maciavellian strategy. Since her last strategy was to plain out tell Rick to go kill Shane which wasn't subtle at all.

Double spoiled, for people who don't want to know what that pan up at the very end means for next season.

I kind of want to read the comics now.  It would be nice to see how the season would have unfolded without retarded writing.

That fucking Lori...

Oh man, that ending was great!

 

She's that fucking stupid.  She was in the comics and she is in this.

Both wife and I were shouting at the TV during her speech to Shane.

"Shane, thank God you're here and not quite as good as Rick.  I'm really sorry I hurt you because you weren't as good as Rick.  We really need you here, but just not as much as Rick.  Please, we need you.  ... ....  ...  Just a little bit less than Rick."

No wonder he went fucknuts.

Man, I thought what Lori said was kind of decent. Shows what I know.

So how long have they all been on that farm? Quite some time - since the start in the case of Hershel's group. And in all that time they didn't make a single plan for a rain(ing zombies) day? No meeting place, no tactics, no defences? No, they spend the whole time arguing about who's the most manly leader and not actually doing fuck all. Thank god Hershel had a shotgun which holds 45 cartridges, eh? That seemed to be their only defence worth shit.

Seriously, this lot are the worst zombie apocalypse survivors I've ever seen. They should have been brain-nommed months ago, the lot of them.

As much as this season dragged on and annoyed me,

Chances are that mysterious stranger survived all on her own since the apocalypse and after the group is done with her she will be a walker and her Ninjacave will be a smoldering ruin. Thats their superpower.

Through a straightforward lens of 'chatting' it was.  However, Lori (and everyone else) should really, really know how badly Shane was hurting and what kind of effect that particular speech would have.

Seriously, it's like "Let's just be friends" times the power of a million, with added "that guy you envy, he's better than you in every way".

Further, Killing Otis and then Shaving His Fucking Head should have been the groups first clue that all was not well in Shaneland.  He should have been treated like sweaty gelignite the minute that happened.

Really ?  They brought her in from the comics ?

That has the power to be interesting or just really annoyingly stupid.  I eagerly await the outcome.

There are times when reading the comics where it starts to feel less like I'm reading a zombie story that just happens to be in comic book form, and more like I'm reading a comic book about zombies.  This character and the other one who has been cast for next season are the two biggest examples of when I get that feeling.  They just feel out of place in a Zombie story as characters who are overly comic-bookish.

Goddamn if you aren't right. I was apoplectic at her character. She bitches at Rick because he killed Shane, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE TOLD HIM TO DO LIKE TWO FUCKING EPISODES AGO! SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!! And how does she never ever know where her fucking kid is? GAH.

Otherwise, an awesome season finale. If the season had had a few more instances of zombie kill hoedown, it would have been a better season.

The only smart one during that battle was Daryl, he actually STOPPED the god damn bike to shoot zombies.  Meanwhile everyone else is driving around the bumpy ground trying to do drive bys, not to mention they put one guy on the biggest most useful vehicle and double up on the others.

I don't think they would have ever stopped getting shit about leaving her out.

Shaved his head to try and hide the big patch o hair Otis tore out of his head.

I'm aware.

You wouldn't take that as a danger sign ?

I don't know if that was smart, I mean everyone else was still getting headshots while driving on bumpy roads  :why_so_serious:

Rick had to kill him, but Shane was right and Rick now knows it which is why he was laying down the law. Its going to eat him up.

Oh yeah, Shane was a crazy motherfucker but he was absolutely right on every single thing they argued about.  Rick makes bad call after bad call, he just has more tact.

Oh of course. I just was clarifying that it wasn't a Britney Spears move.

Honestly, without access to on-demand hot water for showers shaving my head would be step 1 for me in Georgia. It's a godawful hot, humid place.

Yeah, totally agree on the head-shaving.

I always shaved my head before field training exercises in the Army. One less hygiene concern

Well, in the event of the zombie breakout, it'd be the first thing I'd do too, since that's what the guide says we should do.

But the timing was obviously suspect.

These things are always silly but my main feeling on watching the drive by shootings is I'd have built a fuck off gigantic zombie lawn mower by now.  Would sure save the bullets.

I'd have at least reinforced the cars somewhat. The poor guy driving the RV payed for that mistake.

Would there have been A-Team Montage Music playing as you built it?

Jimmy in the RV paid for being too dumb to lock the door.

Who has time to do that kind of shit when you can wonder the woods and debate morality?

None of these motherfuckers are Jan Michael Vincent fans.

Ah, if only they had played some more Left 4 Dead, they would have known that they could defeat any number of zombies by just huddling up in a corner inside the farmhouse and spamming melee-attacks until the zombies stopped coming.

So a zombie puzzle game where you create traps that kill the most zombies with limited resources?

Walking Dead Memes (http://io9.com/5895214/in-the-most-biting-walking-dead-memes-everybody-hates-lori).

It's official. Everyone fucking hates Lori.

That's a keeper.

Chick with a sword and 2 zombies shocked me. 

One of the few times I was caught speechless.  Like... Did I just see that?

 :drill: :drill: :drill: :drill:

Yeah, that was very effective.  I was like wha wha wha?  Badass. 

Also, never have been a fan of Andrea, but I am now.  She's on the run alone, doesn't sob or bitch or make wisecracks, she fights for her survival in a grim, effective manner.  I loved watching her fight to the very end.  It felt so visceral.

Her origin story was in this months playboy.  I dunno why characters in a zombie show or comic would need origin stories more complicated than "i was working at jiffy lube then motherfucking zombies happened", but there you go.

http://getoutofherecarl.tumblr.com/

Apparently, next month telltale games is releasing their first episode of their walking dead game (http://m.intomobile.com/2012/03/21/telltale-games-walking-dead-coming-ios-late-april/?maneref=http%3A%2F%2Ftechnews.am%2Fconversations%2Fintomobile%2Ftelltale_games_8217_the_walking_dead_coming_to_ios_in_late_april)

Well, that's that over for another season.

Whomever is writing Lori needs to just stop.  Seriously.  STOP.  I know she was an annoying fuckstain in the comics too, but the level of really, really massive stupid hit critical there.  They can't seem to get any level of consistency with her from episode to episode.

At one point, guy who got mauled to death in RV happened and wife and I both turned around to say 'Who was he?' at which point the subtitles said 'Jimmy Screams'.  It brought to home how some characters just never got any screen time at all this season.  I mean, they're stuck in the car at the end with T-Dog and no-one's saying 'wait, who are you again ?'

Anyway.  Jail looms and mysterious challenger appears.

Yawn.

More budget next time please.

Is ep 13 the finale for season 2?  The one that ends with "this isn't a democracy any more."

I thought so.

Yep, next season 13 episodes of the prison.

I just watched both seasons over a few weeks.  I really liked it.  Dale was annoying but I would have rather he survived than Lori.  Shane storyline in both seasons was well done.   I still think survivors would have adopted more melee weapons against walkers.  Save the guns for unfriendly humans.

If there is no need to be silent, I'd rather stay out of melee range as much as possible.   :awesome_for_real:

Right, but the walkers are attracted to sound, so it just makes more sense to destroy zombies as silently as possible. Crossbows all around, imo.

Bows also have the advantage of reusable ammo.  Pretty hard to reuse or make new bullets.

With bows you still need to have good aim to hit the head.  I'm with katana-lady.

This argument doesn't really hold weight with me.  Show is set in the Heartland of America.  I'm still a little puzzled as to why they're not swimming in bullets.

Because scavenging makes boring TV and running out of ammo makes for teh drama.

Given what happened every single time this group went scavenging, I suspect that they should have done more of it for more drama and maybe left the fucking reality TV type bantering and human interection to itself.

 :why_so_serious:

I just read an interview with Sam Witwer (Aiden from Being Human, the apprentice from Force Unleashed) were he mentioned he played the zombie inside the tank on the first episode of season 1 because Darabont had already cast him as the lead on a prequel about the fall of Atlanta that was going to be "Blackhawck Down with zombies", but it went out the window when they got rid of Darabont :(.

It really sounds like they fucked things up when they got rid of Darabont. The outline he gave for that episode you're talking about (Episode 1 of Season 2) sounds like it would have been great as well as showing how the group got together. Despite AMC claiming that no one would notice the lower budget, it's pretty clear it's showing.

What really pisses me off is they probably did it to pump more money into Mad Men, which I find boring as fuck with bad dialogue and bad acting.

They also shipped out hell on wheels at same time if I recall.

I got around to watching this finally and i found it interesting how little had to be done to Atlanta for the filming.

Starts up again tomorrow night, for those still interested.

WHERE'S CARL??!

Yeah, still watching it.  Previews look interesting. 

As for Hell on Wheels, the 2nd season was really good and slowly slid down.  But they killed off a major character that I really liked, so I think I'm done with it. 

But did they... dumdumdummmmm!

I'm not sure which one you meant, but neither one was shown in a terribly convincing dead state, and conversations regarding one of them step around mention them being dead.

I know who you're talking about and he's an awesome character.  But I was referring to the woman and it showed quite clearly she was dead.  With all the deaths and the arrest of Chief O'Brien, they have cleaned too much house IMO.

As for Walking Dead, I applaud two different storylines at two different places.  Andrea has really got her shit together.

Lastly, a note for both shows; STOP KILLING YOUR ATTRACTIVE FEMALES.

I went to the channel online to see if I could watch on their site and it warned me not to get DISH or I wouldn't be able to watch them.   :ye_gods:  I feel threatened.

Yeah, bringing her back would stretch credulity too far. She was pretty obviously dead with the one exception no one said she was dead out loud. You have a very solid point about too much house cleaning. It felt more like a Series Finale than anything else. Where they're going from here with two main characters and half a dozen fringe characters and pretty much every other character of note dead is beyond me. It'd be like like if indians raided Deadwood and everybody on both sides died except Al Swearengen and people loyal to him. An exciting season of people sitting in the Gem playing cards and boning hookers. But in a boring way that's different from how they did that in the show.

Gas masks rule.


Also.


HATCHET!

I love gas masks.  They're very sexy.  Dead horses for lunch?  Not so much.

Solid opening.

Can someone explain why they didn't just

I liked s3e1, though I would have liked more with the Andrea storyline

Still a solid start. Easily better than almost all of season 2.

I agree.  Felt a bit more realistic and their decisions and actions made sense. 

I loved the episode. To me the essence of the zombie genre is the feeling that it's all falling in on you and the claustrophobia is amazing for pumping that up. I didn't even need zombies to be clawing at the walls.

Yeah that was a really good season opener. Hopefully the AMC honchos realised that they could either do this cheap or do it well, and that if they chose the former they would just kill it. Fingers crossed it doesn't degenerate into Dawson's Creek with zombies again.

Going to be very interesting to see how they handle Carl & Beth, given that they're (at a guess) 12 and 14 years old. Are they going to get told no shagging for 6 years, are there going to be some difficult discussions or are the writers going to steer clear of the whole idea?

Someone pointed out that the actors are actually like 13 and 26ish respectively.   :awesome_for_real:

Lol, nice one :p  They do a good job of making her look younger on the show, and my googlefu has failed to find her date of birth, which just makes me think of this (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/age).

Rewatch episode 1.5. Zombies have infectious bite (like a komono dragon) the makes it agony for the infected move. It was assumed that next step was for the bitten to become a zombie, but it wasn't shown. For all we know the bitten will make a full recovery if they can survive long enough.

I'm assuming that a live, healthy person can fight off the zombie juice. A zombie carries a super strenth dose because they're "dead" and their immune system no longer fights off the zombie juice. So a wound from a zombie can overcome the immune system and turn someone while they're still alive. A scratch might be dangerous, but it might not.
It's storybook science, so probably doesn't make sense for a "real" disease, then again, I haven't read the books and have not totally ruled out a truly supernatural nature to the zombieitus yet.

In the first season Jim gets a nonlethal bite, but he slowly succumbs to the virus that is passed on from it.

I'm assuming they're going with the old "a rotten dead thing has a whole bunch of bacteria/virus living in it". Bites are bad, mmkay?

Indeed! It makes the most sense if the thing that turns you Zombie doesn't kill you, but ptomain does.

In theory a freshly turned Zombie wouldn't be lethal yet, if that is the case.

Virus Latency. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_latency) 

The novel Feed has an interesting take on it:  Everyone is infected with the dormant version of the virus (which is a combination of two retroviruses, one that eliminates the Cold and one that fights cancer),  but nearly any contact with the "live" version of the virus from saliva or blood from the infected activates the dormant virus and causes zombification.  Also, the virus goes active from the stress of the host dying and causes the person to reanimate.

The problem is viruses need living cells to reproduce or "live". Once the host dies there's not much difference between the corpse and a stainless steel counter. Of course, viruses have a pretty wide range of lifespans without a host, but they're not going to keep reproducing. Bacteria and other microbes would keep on reproducing though.

Not really the biggest problem with the non-magical zombie genre, but a bite shouldn't be much worse than rubbing fresh roadkill on a wound. By the time the zombie would be really, really foul it's mandible would just fall off if it tried to bite anything from soft tissue decomposition. What would matter more is where a bite or wound is. An ankle or forearm bite wouldn't be as big a deal, but a bite on the neck would be bad even if normal, healthy adult was biting you. 

Well that was interesting. I've never read any of the books, so I only knew of the Governor from non-spoilery hints. I get the feeling the last scene wasn't exactly the same as the books, possibly they went with a weird deviation a little more suitable for TV?

I'm assuming he'll eventually justify his actions in this episode with some sort of grand vision.


Was nice seeing someone in this world actually taking a scientific approach to these things.

Its about male to female ratios like the last act of 28days later.

I'm guessing he only wants to take in lone stragglers he can easily integrate into his existing structures under his unchallenged leadership. An organized block of soldiers with more solidarity to each other than to him threatens his power base. Which I guess would be bad news for Ricks little crew if discovered as well.

That or he really really hates military types.

Holy.  Shit.

Powerful shit- I am man enough to admit it brought tears to my eyes.

Yeah, infinitely better than last season.

That was really great with one caveat:

Can't you just be glad shes gone and move on?  :grin:

It was the only logical choice anyway because

Definitely pet worthy though!

Holy crap that was an intense, graphic and enthralling episode! 
Very happy with this season so far. 

Someone once said that they felt the walking dead went a bit too Lost for their tastes. I'm not getting that feeling at all, I'm actually pretty damn satisfied with the show, and I'm hungering for more.

Definitely moving faster then last season.  I didn't think things would progress this fast at the prison.

Holy shit, they finally remember T-Dog exists!


Really powerful episode, especially with the Lori/baby thing and Rick's reaction was just incredible acting. I'm also surprised at how quickly the prison has deteriorated. I expected them to have a little more time there to explore their feelings.

The Governator is starting to bug me though. He's obviously an Englishman trying to cop an American accent and it hurts his acting a bit in places. Plus, the whole Andrea is a fucking idiot with the screaming thigh sweats for the Governator is annoying too.

Andrea has often annoyed me.  She goes from ditz to badass back to ditz.